# Have a trainer



## Aimless1 (Sep 25, 2011)

I can't believe how long it took me to find and choose what I hope will be the right trainer. I have talked to several.
Local place is all about up selling for additional services
Vizsla experienced trainer uses a rigid schedule
Several dog trial people clearly are not interested in helping me develop a gun dog.

Finally came across a trainer who has an excellent reputation, and as I later found out, is friends with my retired trainer and knows the guy who developed Quest well (also retired). Both my friend and Quest's trainer recommend him.

Taking Nitro next week for some one on one work. Really looking forward to the adventure! I can work with Nitro on a great deal but need birds, more birds, and birds galore. Having an experienced trainer help with issues as they arrive is definitely worth the cost. Hope we establish good rapport and now I begin to find out what is possible.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Glad you have found a new trainer A1.....they are not a commonly found commodity.  Well.....a good one at least anyways.....


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Aimless1
Ive found you need to treat a good trainer like they are made of gold. Always be on time to every training session. If you cancel one pay him anyway, even if he tells you not to. Try to listen and watch closely when he is working with your pup. Small things make a big difference. If your doing one on one sessions he is having to train you too. Yes be nice and friendly but don't try and have an hour conversation after every training session. They normally have other dogs to work or a second job and family. Last don't be a helicopter parent with your pup, calling the trainer every day to ask a question. Yes some questions will arise and need to be asked, but not every other day. They are calm and patience people that love what they do, and in most cases are a rare commodity.


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## Aimless1 (Sep 25, 2011)

Good advice TR. A good trainer is easily worth double what ever they charge. I've always learned as much or more than my pup by watching him handle the dog. 

I'm one of those good listeners, so I always find the trainer gabs on and on and I'm the one having a hard time getting away. Case in point, I made a quick call to confirm which Friday we agreed to, thinking it would take 30 seconds on his voice mail. I finally got Vance to hang up 20 minutes later. Even so, picked up another little nugget of wisdom to file away for future use.


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## Aimless1 (Sep 25, 2011)

I had a one hour appointment with the trainer today, and left after about 4 hours. I love hunting dog people and had a great time.

I met Julie who had bred her Brittany to Rick Smith's stud this past winter in Texas. Story is Rick saw her and she went into heat and Rick was adamant his dog and hers be bred. As you might imagine, both come from stellar blood lines and the pups should be great prospects. Ricks stud fee? Julie could send him any pup from the litter she wanted. When she asked Rick about this he noted that 5 recent field trial winners were the runt of the litter and pups no one wanted. She kept a pup and I was fortunate to see and get to play with him for a bit. 9 weeks old and full of promise.

Spent a good deal of time talking to Vance about people we both knew and retired dog trainers. He helped me catch up with what was going on with the trainer who finished Quest and I helped him catch up on my long time trainer whom he had competed against in field trials. I guess you could say we hit it off. Also spent a great deal of time discussing his and my training philosophies and his methods. I guess you could say I am now very comfortable with him, but it's what he does in the field that matters.

I've always allowed my pups to be puppies for the first six months of their lives, only insisting they learn enough to function in the house, and of course, teaching them how to learn. Heavy emphasis on socialization. Nitro had his first introduction to birds today. He had a grand time. 

So what happened? He started off chasing barn swallows around a pond. Tried to run across the pond and hit deep water. Inadvertently had his introduction to swimming, which he did well. He had a hard time choosing to swim across the distance to the far side of the pond or take the shorter route and return to shore. He returned, very wet, but no worse for the experience.

Had troubles catching scent on the first pigeon but locked into a nice point. Did well with all 4 birds we planted. Came back and we did some barrel training for awhile. Went back out to point more birds and this tme he made my pulse quicken. Ran by the second bird, spun around on a dime and locked on point a good 12 feet from the bird. Held that point for a solid 10+ minutes before attempting to flush the bird. Amazing considering his lack of experience, light wind and that the birds were planted with no ground scent. Since he did this twice more it's not a fluke. Good style and phenomenal nose. Vance introduced him to the gun (starter pistol). Did a little power steering ala Delmar Smith. Great day.

Vance allowed Nitro is a great prospect. I acknowledged he has good potential to become a fine gun dog. Swapped a few stories and I returned home. After I hit the highway a huge grin spread across my face from ear to ear. Love that pup. Like the trainer. Good times and wonderful day ... almost as good as an October afternoon in the grouse woods.


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## veifera (Apr 25, 2012)

Aimless, I have a question. Did you use a check cord? I'm meeting a very well regarded trainer this weekend. It took me several months to find her, comes highly recommended by the Vizsla people.

But I don't know if it's OK to tell her I don't want a check cord used just yet. Want to let the puppy chase birds first. What I don't know is if "introduction to birds" means leading the puppy to a planted bird on a check cord and all trainers do that.

I'm so confused (and excited!! and nervous!!)


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Veif - some trainers may make some accommadations to owners - the ones I know will do this if it does not impact their overall training style - you chose the trainer - they choose to train the pup - I would break the pup to birds before going to the trainer hence no problem


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## Aimless1 (Sep 25, 2011)

Great question. Perhaps if I explain how the check cord is used you will be more open to using it.

Yes, Nitro had the check cord attached. But he dragged it - meaning no one held onto it. He found the birds and gave chase as though it was not there. This is preferred as otherwise you're roading the pup into the bird rather than allowing him to find it.

Why the check cord? When it was time to go back so we could plant more birds he chose not to obey the "here" command. The trainer and I ran him down and obtained control by grabbing the check cord. No punishment was administered, but it allowed us to grab a stubborn pup. In other words, the check cord is used for control ... if needed.

I have used trainers who have you hold onto the check cord while the pup finds the bird. I'm not fond of this method, but approve of having it attached to use if needed.

Hope the trainer works for you and your pup. Before you do any training spend some time to get to know her and her training methods. She will want to know about you and your relationship with the pup as well. This is the mark of a good trainer meeting you for the first time. 

You are about to have the time of your life. Remember to enjoy the experience!


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## veifera (Apr 25, 2012)

Ah! Thanks for this! My breeder warned me about leading the dog to a bird, because the dog will learn that you provide the birds and will even point them out for it to find...

She suggested that the best way to introduce the dog to the birds is to have her on a stake and to release several quail in front of her. So that she gets excited and wants to chase. And to be sure that the quail are not pen raised, or at least a decent fliers so the puppy won't catch them. And not to introduce the check cord until the more "formal" training starts. 

My dilemma is that I want to politely tell the trainer that this is the method I'm interested in (as opposed to leading into the bird, like you also cautioned against). But at the same time, I had such trouble finding anyone, I'm nervous that I'm going to lose this person if she turns out to be a cord person...

:'(


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## Aimless1 (Sep 25, 2011)

My guess is after the getting to know each other (before you begin training) you'll probably find you don't have an issue.

The trainer who used the check cord to the bird used birds with their primary feathers pulled so they could not fly. The object was for the pup to point, not give chase.

What I have done on my own and what my trainer is doing is to use release traps. We allow the pup to work the field, point the bird ... and when he breaks point release the bird and pup gives chase. At the same time a starters pistol is used to introduce the pup to gun fire. This does several things including intensifying the desire to point, pup learns he will not be able to catch the birds and gives proper introduction to the gun and to working for/with you.

Based on the way you worded it I would disagree a little with your breeder. It is possible for pups to be injured by a free bird in the field .... peck to the eye, claw to the skin, etc. This may actually cause the pup to shun birds! This is certainly possible and I've seen it happen with pheasant. Not sure pigeons or quail could harm a pup but something to think about. I would also rather have the pup point then simply give chase. 

The type of bird is not that important. It is how you use it in training that matters. If you want to intensify the instinct to chase then your breeders suggestion is great. If you're looking to intensify the desire to point, there are better methods. Both will cause your pup to go crazy for birds.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

If it were me I wouldn't say anything about the check cord to the trainer. I would want to see their training style without my in put. If I liked it great, I would have found a new trainer. If I didn't like what I saw then I would find a different trainer.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Veifera,
Personally, I think your concerned about a non-issue. We put check cords on pups in the whelping box so they tug on each other learning to give to the lead and associate it with the other dogs and a dog will have a cord on and off it's entire life as a bird dog. 

Can a problem EVENTUALLY occur with the dog developing a dependence on the handler for over-cc'ing. Sure. But of all the problems I see, that particular problem one can be fixed super easy. My suggestion is that you've found a highly recommended trainer. Let them tell you how they think your dog should be trained. That's why you went to the trouble of asking everyone, looking around, checking them out. You didn't go there because people think they're iffy. Would you go to the best surgeon in the state and then tell them you don't want them to use a scalpel for your surgery? or the Best mechanic and tell them you you only want finger tight, dont use a wrench?
Just my point of view for what it might be worth.
Have fun this weekend and let us know how it goes!
Ken


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## veifera (Apr 25, 2012)

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions! We met with the trainer today just to talk and for her to evaluate the puppy.

Result: we'll be training every weekend and my baby girl will attempt her first pass at JH as soon as she's eligible.

It was simply amazing!!!! Here are some key words from the trainer: 

- a LOT of drive
- bold, gutsy and not at all shy
- independent
- beautiful, efficient gait
- great free stacking (top line, rear legs, etc)
- conformation!

The trainer sort of implied I have no idea what a fine dog I have. I'm about to burst with pride LOL!

Anyway, she had my puppy on 5 pigeons, a feather on a string and a check chord, evaluating various aspects of hunting ability. That way she can see which instincts need to be brought out stronger, which are already good and so on.

At first, she had the bird in front of Uma to gauge bird interest and let her chase them. Three times.

Then a feather to see the stalking. Uma was very impatient! Her stalks are very short but she's 16 weeks old. Then a check chord to see the scent interest.

I was blown away. I could literally see my puppy making sense of things as we went along. By the second round with a check cord, she already seemed to know what to do (pick up a scent, find the bird, freeze).

Anyway. So far so good. Let's see what happens next but we're going for gold, LOL. Thanks for reading!


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## Aimless1 (Sep 25, 2011)

Congratulations to both the proud parents and to Uma. Sounds like a great day afield and seems you found a trainer you trust and can work with.

Win!


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Veif - hunt well & hunt often ! it's just a small part of your V's life - but to me the most important - bred to HUNT & HUNT they should!


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## veifera (Apr 25, 2012)

Thanks A1 and REM. It's a brand new chapter in my life - I've even never been to a hunt. And now I have a perfect sidekick to explore it with! LOL


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