# Docked pup



## Vida (Dec 26, 2011)

We decided to have a pup docked as we have a couple of working homes lined up.
My vet doesn't dock so we had to travel to a different vet. Proof that Poppy works as a gundog, and questions re the new owners, all very official. The pup hardly woke up  during the procedure and was home feeding from mum within half an hour.
The docked pup is top of pic.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Vida - to dock or not 2 dock - a ? that will never V answered- for me and my V - AKC or any group have no answers - personal choice !!!!!!!!!


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## Darcy1311 (May 27, 2012)

Darcy is docked the breed standard way, one third removed...after all she is a docked breed... :-X


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## GarysApollo (Nov 27, 2012)

I have never seen a Vizsla with a undocked tail.


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

In some countries (Hungary being one of them), tail docking is against the law.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Interesting Vida and thank you for sharing. We have had requests to leave tails long, but I have never found a way to honor that request. I cannot tell at the 1-3 day past birth window in which we dock tails to determine which Pup is indicating the most appropriate drive, intelligence and physical structure attributes. Inversely, I'm curious how it is determined in your case which Pup to dock?

Ken


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## GarysApollo (Nov 27, 2012)

mswhipple,

I know of these laws. Laws I can't understand to tell you the truth.
I have family in hungary and they do have their dogs tails docked and they are intact, I guess they are criminals!!! Law makers have to much say in peoples lives anymore. 

I have decided to start my own country! I think I will name it Vizsla... Sounds cool.


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## Nelly (Feb 7, 2013)

Tail docking is against the law over here in the UK unless it is for a medical reason or for certain working dogs. There is also a ban on showing any docked dogs unless it is to show their working ability. Personally, I prefer undocked dogs.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

on our pheasant shoot there's a cocker spaniel with an undocked tail, it looks weird ,


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## Darcy1311 (May 27, 2012)

Nelly said:


> Tail docking is against the law over here in the UK unless it is for a medical reason or for certain working dogs. There is also a ban on showing any docked dogs unless it is to show their working ability. Personally, I prefer undocked dogs.


 Then purchase a breed of dog that does not dock ...leave the Vizsla as it should be...docked. There are many things in our UK which are against the law...but all people are concerned about are docking of tails..much more cruelty is happening...and we worry about docked tails.....NOW OFF SOAP BOX.. ;D


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## Watson (Sep 17, 2012)

mswhipple said:


> In some countries (Hungary being one of them), tail docking is against the law.


I met a Hungarian lady a few months back while I was out with Watson and she said she was very surprised to see he had a tail at all. She said in Hungary, the standard is to completely dock Vizslas. Couldn't find any information online supporting that.

Vida: pups are gorgeous!! :-*


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

Here's a little video showing some Hungarian Vizslas, and I think most of them have undocked tails. If you read the little blurb below the video, it says the lady is actually from Hungary herself.

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2011/07/bachelors-are-all-dogs-vizslas-to-be.html


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

Here is a passage from a booked called "The Hungarian Vizsla", by Gay Gottlieb:

_ In August 1982 the Second World Congress of Breeders of Hungarian Breeds was held in Budapest. Those attending had the opportunity to visit Hortobagy National Park, a reserve holding herds of horses, cattle and sheep. Later they visited Lake Balaton, the largest lake on the European continent, where they met Miklos Farkashazi, then secretary of the Hungarian Vizsla Club. He had arranged a demonstration of the dogs working in a nearby field. The first exercise was to quarter, the second was three retrieves of planted seen game (two pheasants and a hare), and in the third demonstration the dogs had to track a hare that had been dragged along the ground, This they appeared to do with skill, retrieving the hare to hand. They moved on to the water demonstration and here had to retrieve live and dead ducks; some achieved the live retrieves more successfully than others, and it was felt that some dogs did no have enough drive. The last exercise was to test steadiness; all the dogs had to be steady to shot. They all sat collectively and only one Vizsla broke, but this was this dog's second 'failure' that day. It was felt that he had a temperament problem and Miklos Farkashazi explained that, due to this, the dog would have to be eliminated from any breed programme. It was noted that many dogs in the demonstration had long tails; fewer dogs are docked now that the 1981 Standard does not ask for a docked tail._

Anyhow, tail docking is called for in the American standard (AKC), but not in the Hungarian standard. I know I read it somewhere that tail docking is illegal in Hungary nowadays.


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## Nelly (Feb 7, 2013)

Darcy, I was merely giving my preference. I would have a docked or undocked Vizsla because I love the breed, tail docking does not actually concern me.


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

Does anyone by chance know what the CKC standards are? any puppies I have seen and the breeders adults have all been docked.


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## Darcy1311 (May 27, 2012)

Nelly said:


> Darcy, I was merely giving my preference. I would have a docked or undocked Vizsla because I love the breed, tail docking does not actually concern me.


 Yes I know that Nelly, all I was saying is that it's a docked breed, and they should stay that way, we have 2 Doberman in our village and they are not docked,they look awful with long whippy like tails. I would opt for docking, and would not purchase a docked breed of dog if it's tail was intact...


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## Vida (Dec 26, 2011)

Ken,
You're right of course,in an ideal world evaluation of the pup would come first. :-\ ,and I couldn't have known which pup would have the most working potential. 
The dam has predominately show lines,and yet works like a dog possessed! Her drive,nose,and trainability have been much admired. And that's why the potential new owner wants a pup from her.
The sire is from strong working lines ,but he was also shown.
So I'm hoping that all the pups would have potential as good working dogs.
I chose the middling size dog pup for docking,rightly or wrongly? 
I followed my gut.
I don't believe in choosing the pup for the new owner. I shall of course be guiding the new families towards the best match. 
Unfortunately I had a list of families wanting bitch pups :'( and only 2 dogs booked.
I don't know where I stand with publicizing my litter on here so I shall shut up now! :


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## Vida (Dec 26, 2011)

Forgot to add...
I personally like a tail on my dog 8)
And under Uk KC rules a docked dog cannot be shown.
But the 'working' home on offer is superb,and i agreed to the docking in the interests of the dog.
I hope the remaining three dogs will go to show/pet homes.
Little Maggie,the only bitch,is staying with us and will be shown.


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## Rufus Tiberius (Dec 18, 2012)

mswhipple

The AKC Standard for the Vizsla does not call for a docked tail. In my research of AKC Breed Standards the AKC does not require a docked tail for any dog. Though they say a docked tail is PREFERED in some breeds.

Below is a quote directly from the AKC's breed standard for the Vizsla.

"Tail set just below the level of the croup, thicker at the root and docked one-third off. Ideally, it should reach to the back of the stifle joint and when moving it should be carried at or near the horizontal, not vertically or curled over the back, nor between the legs. A docked tail is preferred." 

RT


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

Well, that's good to know, RT. Thanks!

My boy Willie came out of the dog pound (lost dog) with a docked tail. He is gun shy and I'm not a hunter, so we're a nice match. Actually, though, I think I would have preferred the natural tail, because I think they are a lot more expressive in day-to-day living. It really doesn't matter, because I would love him to pieces either way.


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## Hbomb (Jan 24, 2012)

H has a full tail. Not only that, we've met a few other undocked vs and H's tail is FAR longer than theirs- have never seen a tail like it!

RIP to several crystal wine glasses who have met their deaths as a result of H's super tail


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## zigzag (Oct 4, 2011)

To me the hard part is determining the proper dock length. After looking at many Vizslas it seems the field lines tend to have a slightly longer docked tail. It must take a skilled Vet with experince with Vizsla's to get that tail length just right when the pup is only 2-3 days old. Off topic slightly, how do Vizsla owners feel about dew claw removal? Is that against the law in the UK?


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## zigzag (Oct 4, 2011)

I would add that IMO a good tail dock would be hardley noticed on a Vizsla to anyone who did not know the breed or much about dogs. Although I notice the show breeds have a more noticiable tail dock. Just my 2 cents.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Zig - I feel if you hunt your pup hard or run him in heavy cover - the dew claws should be removed


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## zigzag (Oct 4, 2011)

Show dog tail pic 1. Field dog pic 2.


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## River (Sep 24, 2012)

We have two undocked Vizsla, and we like them that way.

Brook has a really thin tail, whippy and stings if he catches you, River has a really thick bushy tail with a swirl of hair at the end you could almost put in a pony tail.

When we were looking for River, we would find planned litters with docked tails, or dew claws removed or even both, so it took us quite some time to find a dog with lines we wanted and with full tail and dew claws.

Ours use their dew claws, to hold toys, food, climb, and clean their faces.

At the time we got Brook it was about a year in to the new law, and almost every litter had full tails and dew claws, even a pup from our litter planned to go to a working home was not docked.

A lot of vets were refusing to dock if the breeder did not hunt or work the dogs, regardless of the new owners.

We came to the breed after the ban on docking, and I like to see breeds like dobs with tails.

I can see that if you intend to hunt you may like a docked dog.


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## Nelly (Feb 7, 2013)

Zig, dew claw removal isn't prohibited over here. They tried to ban it about a decade ago and it never happened. I agree with REM thought, much safer to have them off if they will be working in undergrowth etc because it will be extremely painful for the adult dog to have it ripped off by being tangled.

They either have to come off at 3 days old or have them off in later life under anaesthetic for another routine surgery. 

Nelly still has her's but I'm always worried incase they catch, they're very protruding! However I notice that she does use them almost like thumbs to lie on her back and hold things! 

I wouldn't put her through having it done in later life I don't think but possibly request it in future pups.


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