# HELP!! 5 month old unaware of peeing in the house



## b4ruby (Sep 3, 2016)

Ideas from experienced dog owners? Lincoln is still having indoor peeing accidents. He is a wonderful 5 month old, happy puppy in all other ways. No barking, whining, chewing, jumping and he is very obedient (the majority of the time).  My only difficulty is his potty training. He is taken out every 20 minutes (using timer) to ensure he doesn't pee. Today we were playing hide a treat and find it, while returning he left a steady stream of pee. He was inside probably 40 minutes because I had forgotten to set the timer. I believe he is totally unaware of this until I say aloud "NO, outside" and we go out and he finishes the peeing (he pees on command). He has never gone to the door to ring a bell to be let out because I've been so vigilant besides I believe he is totally unaware that it's about to happen. When he's crated at night 8-9hrs no pee. In the car 2 hrs no pee. Tethered to me indoors 80minutes no peeing. I do not want to be upset with him but I need to know if this could be a medical problem or if you think he will grow out of it.


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## Canadian Expy (Feb 27, 2013)

I have not dealt with this, but I would pay a visit to your vet to rule out any medical causes. It sounds like he is fine when he is stationary (sleeping, in a crate, in a car) but when moving around can lose bladder control. 

It sounds like you are doing everything you should be doing as far as a consistent schedule. If your vet determines there is no medical cause, the only other thing I would suggest is limiting the areas in the house that Lincoln has access to. Start with the room your family spends the most time in (such as the living room) and once he is successfully not peeing in there, allow him access to another room and continue to expand as necessary.

As I said, I have no dealt with this so other may have other suggestions from experience. Please let us know how it goes. That is one good looking pup


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## Cooperpooperscooper (Jan 25, 2015)

You know how kids have accident because they don't want to stop playing? I sware puppies do the same. Cooper did that to me several times. He didn't want to stop playing and laid low like he would when waiting for ball and would pee and then take off immediately for the ball/toy. I would just stop the play and take him outside. They eventually get the hang of it.


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## MikoMN (Nov 29, 2016)

b4ruby,
Has Lincoln resolved this? We are having similar problems. Miko will be fine 3 days straight, then just pee somewhere. He will do it while stopped, but often will do it while walking. Usually in the next room, but often people are in the room when he does it. Miko is 6.5 months old now and will go on command outside. Mostly obedient...mostly. I was hoping you have been able to figure something out, or can give me at least some hope that it will get better. Thanks


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## Betty (Apr 14, 2016)

I had a 1/2 V, 1/2 lab (more V characteristics than lab) that would leave a stream of pee on the floor, when called or playing, when he was under 2 years old...eventually he gained control of that muscle, but it took time. It seems that the more attention that was called to the pee the more he leaked!


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

I know when my two where pups I wasn't that regimental, I used to call them to come when I went out for a cigarette, 5 mins was enough for them to have a pee or a poo. I'm certainly not saying that the 20 minute rule is wrong, far from it tbh, but i tried to stretch the time out between pee and poo breaks the older they got....I have less cigarette breaks now ;D


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## MikoMN (Nov 29, 2016)

Thanks for the encouragement. We are at 6-7 months old now and it seems that within the last week he has finally learned to sit at the baby gate when he needs to go out. We are very excited for this development, because up until now, there has been zero signal when he had to go. We would just take him out every hour like clockwork. Even with being taken out every hour, he was still having 2-3 accidents a week. He did have an accident today, but it was next to the door as we were putting our snow gear on to take him out to pee. We had waited for 3 hours, so probably as much our fault as his. It has been sub zero temps here and it takes us a while to bundle up. I guess he couldn't wait this time. It just gets frustrating when you know he CAN hold it much longer, but for some reason doesn't. Neither my wife nor I have ever owned a pet, and we don't know how much, or when to expect these milestones to take place. Some days we want to just hug and cuddle on him, some days we want to ring his neck. Most days we want to do both, depending on the time of day.


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## 1stVizsla (Jun 22, 2016)

Hi MikoMN, I also found it a huge jump from me initiating bathroom time to getting my pup to signal. I agree w/the previous comment that 20min is likely too short to build control. My V pup is now 8.5 mo and we have progressed to peeing on demand or every 2-3 hrs when I spontaneously let her out.

Do you give your pup "big praise" when he pees outside still?? As if he just won first place in a prize fight, etc? That WILL help reinforce. I use that in the early stages of potty training and it usually has a big effect. Scolding didn't work well with mine as she simply hid under the bed for an hour afterwards.

I'm also thinking Vs may not have as much bladder control, as my pup still sprinkles with excitement when I get home from work in evening or a trip. I use the same potty training techniques on my German Shepard who I got one month before the V and he was trained within 3 days. I think he'd die of shame before going in the house now!

I also placed bells on every door for the V. She only rang them once in 3 mos, although I continue to shake them before opening the door to let her out, hoping she may make the connection. 

What I see her doing is coming to me where I'm sitting and staring at me (as if I have ESP!) or running back and forth between me and the door getting increasingly agitated, however, NO Vocalizations still. Your pup sitting at the gate staring at you reminds me of that.

I also discovered that her running back and forth excitedly was a signal she needed to pee (not excitement/play as I thought at the time), although she was also playing at the time. It was another subtle behavioral clue she was giving... and the peeing when she sees me after a day or more absence, bears out the lack of bladder control when excited.

I'm also wondering if certain Vs just aren't very vocal? Although she has started barking at me this past week if she wants food or play. We continue to work with her on letting us know when she wants to go outside. My Labrador puppy was able to bark at me when she wanted out at 3-4 mos old. My previous GSD did also at ~3 mo. The V doesn't.

My V puppy is just starting to vocalize more at 8.5 mo; she just finished her first heat and seems to be becoming more assertive after that. My advice is try the "big praise" method (like he just won a prize match), maybe spend another day JUST focusing on him (if your schedule allows) and challenging him with longer hold times and encouraging him to "tell you" when he needs to go outside. You may be able to make some breakthroughs in his understanding... good luck, it IS a long process! I think our V is almost there as we are at a point where accidents are rare and that's with leaving her free in house for 3-4 hrs when we are gone.

Btw, he's a handsome pup! In working with different dogs on the potty training, I'm reminded that getting them to potty outside has got to be one of the most challenging lessons for the canine living in the human indoor world. You'll get there!!


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## MikoMN (Nov 29, 2016)

Thanks 1stVizsla.

We do praise. A lot! You would think he won the super bowl multiple times a day. 
To clarify. He does go on command. He will often will go 2-3 hours between. He even goes right where we trained him to. (in the trees and long weeds just off the grass.) 
He just still pees in the house a couple times a week. 

We have tried teaching him to paw at the gate, and ring a bell by having him do it every time we take him out. We have taken him out the same door since we brought him home. He hasn't quite caught on yet. We are taking his sitting at the gate as a good sign.

He is a good puppy. He retrieves well, loves to play fetch. He will usually only chew his own toys even though our kids toys are all over the house all the time. With the exception of my 2 year old's bows. He loves to carry those around in his mouth. We have even started him on hunt training (after all that is what he was bred for) We just need to get the housebreaking done.


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## cuddlebuglove (Apr 27, 2014)

To you, best of luck with your puppy, he is a charmer. To the Veterans here. If you live in a snow climate I don't, is it a problem to get your Vizslas to eliminate in the cold and snow, especially females?


Also what is a disadvantage of using potty pads in inclement weather inside the house.

I know that it's winter but when one says long or tall grass, I quake and think of SNAKES! Wouldn't want them near any pet! How is a potting pet protected against them?


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

MikoMN
For the sake of your child, and your puppy, please don't let the kids sit on him. Most of these pups will take a lot, until they don't, and young children have soft skin that tears easier than ours. He may never feel the need to react to that type of treatment, but you would feel horrible if something preventable happened.


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

Dharma who is almost 4 years old will give you a different signal depending on whether she is at home or not and if she is at home she will do something different. At home in the living room she will go to the door and sit at it. She does not bark but rather tosses her head toward the door. If we are in the rec room, she just walks in circles at the base of the stairs. At night we sleep with our door closed so she has figured out how to rattle my husband's belt buckle left on the floor attached to his pants. At my parents house she just sits at either the sliding back door or at the front door and tosses her head. She never barks to be let out. Only at Christmas do I have bells on the side and front doors and then Dharma will use them instead of any other signal. I found it rather confusing at first because she did nothing consistent and we had to read carefully into everything that she did or get burned by an accident. They are very smart dogs and will adopt a routine and this gets better with age too.
In terms of living in a colder winter climate, we just take Dharma out the front door to the front lawn where we have dug a pathway for her to go in. She just goes out and does what she has to on a leash and then comes right back in. If we take her for a walk, She has a heavy winter coat. When we are out for a walk I have found that she will use the street or the sidewalk or an area where there is little snow.


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## b4ruby (Sep 3, 2016)

Yes, I think Lincoln may have resolved his excitable peeing, I hope. He is now just 8 months old and has not had an accident in a month. I take him outside about every hour because I still don't trust him. What I've observed in him is his lack of awareness that he is going to pee or is peeing in the house.

Like Miko, he pees on command outside and is extremely bright. He is very engaging and loves to learn. He is both very calm and very excitable. He never asks to be let out or shows any signs that he needs to go out to pee. I had him on a schedule to go out every 20 minutes up until a month ago because I couldn't trust him. I also noticed that I had to have him pee twice because he wouldn't fully eliminate the first time. Plus, he is an amazing drinker of up to 5 cups of water a day.

While playing with other dogs I give him a time out after awhile because he gets frantic. He has peed a stream during these encounters outside with his dog pals. He has stream peed when my friends have greeted him. He has stream peed indoors in anticipation of going out for a walk or coming to claim a food treat for good behavior. What I've observed in him is his lack of awareness that he needs to pee or that he needs to hold his pee until he is in an appropriate place to eliminate. These were all random incidences and the only thread was his excitement level or his concentrating on his playing. It was hard for me to not be angry with him because I was so frustrated. The last two times he started to stream pee I grabbed him saying "outside potty, outside" he immediately held it and finished outside. He is a conundrum because he can be in similar situations and have no accidents. 

I'm also periodically kenneling him while I get ready for our walk, prepare dinner or when we entertain. I believe it is in his best interest and mine to be able to restrain himself. He is good with his stays but he continues to push his boundaries as a pup will do. He gets a lot of exercise off leash because we live in the country with no neighbors. He does have bladder control because he can be kenneled 9 hrs at night and 5 hrs during the day with no accidents. 

Other then his accidental peeing he has no bad habits. He has excellent recall, he is very respectful, he is happy, he doesn't bark, chew, or counter surf, he doesn't nip, he has a lot of confidence, he gets on well with dogs and farm animals and is very affectionate with people. 

I wish you and Milo success. I hope Lincoln and I are also successful!!


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## MikoMN (Nov 29, 2016)

Thanks b4ruby, MCD, and cuddlebuglove. I guess we will just keep going until he finally gets it. Like you said b4ruby, even if we take him out regularly, he just seems to do it sometimes. Today for example it was no more than 20 minutes after he had been out. We caught him in the act and a quick "No Miko" did not stop him. He just looked at us and kept going. We attempted to help him get to the door as some suggested, but that resulted in him peeing as he was moved. Unlike Lincoln, it is not excited peeing for Miko. If anything I would say it is bored peeing when we are not interacting with him.

Don't fret too much TexasRed, we don't allow our kids to climb on Miko. This was a one time thing (we hope) while we stepped out of the room and came back to find them like this. The photo was taken because she was so darn happy it was cute, and then she was told to get off and that she isn't allowed to climb on him. Unfortunately with small children (we have a 2 year old a 4 year old, and a 7 year old) "Leave Miko alone." is a common phrase in our house. It goes the other way too. Miko will follow them around and badger them endlessly if they have food that he thinks he might be able to salvage if dropped or set down, or even held too far away from them. We also have to say "Leave it Miko" Many times a day. He loves to stand over them if they are laying on the floor. It just seems to be part of training both children and dogs at the same time. On the plus side, they both respond to treats really well.


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## b4ruby (Sep 3, 2016)

Does Miko have a kennel? The kennel could be a good way to help him learn to hold his urine unless he doesn't mind sitting in it. You could put him in after his exercise and take him out a couple hours later, exercise and then back in. 

I know how frustrating this is.. I hope he figures out peeing in the house is not acceptable.


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## MikoMN (Nov 29, 2016)

Thanks b4ruby,
Miko doesn't like sitting in it, but doesn't seem to mind it all that much. He is crate trained. Maybe we should try going back to a little more crate time. Especially those times where we can't keep a very close eye on him.

Yes Miko has a kennel, and sleeps in it every night (with the door shut) He also sits in it during meal times so he doesn't sit under the kids and beg. (we leave the door open during meal times, and he stays in pretty well, he just sits and marks all the food that is dropped so he can retrieve it quickly when we give him the release command from his kennel) He goes to kennel on command, but has never just wandered to it on his own. Haha, the exception is after he pees on the carpet sometimes he drops his head and runs to his kennel, and that is how we know to start looking for a pee spot. Obviously we can't say anything to him about it if we don't catch him in the act. Though I'm not fully convinced he doesn't know perfectly well what he has done.  

As you suggest, I think we might try having him spend a little more time in his kennel, with a good amount of exercise in between. I don't know that he will like it much. He uses is high pitched whiney voice whenever he is in his kennel and we are all in the room. But we'll give it a try. We're not above going back to the basics.


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## b4ruby (Sep 3, 2016)

Well... Lincoln just had an accident after not having one for a month. He had been in and out of the house and I assumed he had peed outside. I noticed a 15 inch stream on the kitchen floor about 10 minutes after he did it. He must of caught himself when he piddled because when I told him "outside" he had a lot of pee to eliminate. This is the sixth dog I've owned and trained and I've never had this issue. I can't imagine leaving him uncrated when we leave during the day. It appears he has a lot of control laying down compared to standing up. :


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

Dharma still lives in a crate when we are not home. She not only understands how to get into the cupboard where the garbage pail is kept because of the type of handle. She is still liable to go to the bathroom any where in the house or find something not good to chew. She is almost 4 but I still don't trust leaving her alone. When she is in her crate, it is hit or miss whether we come home to a clean crate.
I don't think the crate has ever been a place that Dharma would go willingly. I think sometimes it is nice to know that we all have some issues no matter what age the dogs are......


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## MikoMN (Nov 29, 2016)

Oh no Lincoln! After doing so well for so long!
It was probably just a random mistake. Good to know he was able to stop himself. Miko just had one too. We were all in the kids room saying prayer and he was waiting outside the door. (He isn't allowed in the bedrooms) When we came out he had left us a little present. 
On the plus side, your advice has been good so far. We put him in the kennel every time we couldn't keep a close eye on him. ~Well, all but one. It was his first accident all day.
I'm sorry you are having troubles with it, but I'm glad to hear I'm not alone. Sometimes when I hear about how well everyone else's dog trained, I start to wonder what I am doing wrong. To hear of others like yourself, who know what they are doing and still having the same troubles, is kind of comforting.


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## MikoMN (Nov 29, 2016)

MCD said:


> Dharma still lives in a crate when we are not home. She not only understands how to get into the cupboard where the garbage pail is kept because of the type of handle. She is still liable to go to the bathroom any where in the house or find something not good to chew. She is almost 4 but I still don't trust leaving her alone. When she is in her crate, it is hit or miss whether we come home to a clean crate.
> I don't think the crate has ever been a place that Dharma would go willingly. I think sometimes it is nice to know that we all have some issues no matter what age the dogs are......


Yes! It is very nice to know we are not alone! Also nice to know that it will probably occur less often with time.


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## 1stVizsla (Jun 22, 2016)

MikoMN, after quick read of thread just now. I think you are doing an excellent job of working with MikoMN. For a first time dog owner, I'm sure you have figured out by now that you have one of the harder breeds to "potty" train. I think you're doing a commendable job.

With 3 young children in the household, this heightens the everyday excitement, coupled with the fact that Miko absolutely must know that he is the lowest creature in the totem pole (peeing is also a submissive behavior) he is likely so overwhelmed at times that, as you observe, he doesn't even know that he is peeing.

I see that behavior with my vizsla when she is excited (chasing something, wild w/excitement about walk etc.); where she cannot think until calming down. My thought is he will grow out of it; certainly by the age of 2 when you will likely miss many of his (other) puppy behaviors! 

The above comment about using the crate to give him calm space with bladder control is something I would consider, however, as you have room boundaries in the house it may be best to let him roam when you are home as these represent additional "house rules" that he must master (quite challenging). his "gift" the other night actually may represent his trying to figure it all out and I would see it as a sign that he is really trying to figure it all out. My first GSD did a few similar weird marks as he was figuring out the potty/house rules.

My Stella has made progress, no dribbling when I come home and up to 8hr alone w/run of house with no accidents last week. However, we have a totally quiet household w/grown kids.

I think as Milo continues to grow, gets more self aware and confidant/calm in his environment the excited peeing should disappear. In the meantime, you seem to be doing everything possible to help him; he's a lucky dog!! My guess is you will have an impressively well trained house-dog when process is complete.


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## MikoMN (Nov 29, 2016)

Just an update. We are starting to keep better records of his accidents so that we can better know how to prevent them and this has been the following:

Jan 31, Feb 9, Feb 16, Feb 23, Feb. 28 All but one occurred after 6pm. For a month we started putting him in his kennel at 6:30, and 2 of the five occurred in his kennel.

4 weeks = 5 accidents. I know this sounds like a lot, but it is a huge improvement for him, and we are very excited about it. He is now 8.5 months old.


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## b4ruby (Sep 3, 2016)

Hi MikoMN, 

Lincoln is just turning 10months and his last accident was over a month ago. There is light at the end of the tunnel


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## Gatsby2015 (Oct 26, 2015)

For what it's worth, Gatsby is not vocal at all about going out. He simply sits at the back door and patiently stares at it until we notice. Fortunately he doesn't pee in the house, but we have become in tune to when he's not with us, since he is almost always at one of our sides, he's usually sitting and staring at the back door, needing to go out. The bell at the door sounds like a good idea, i think we'll try that. Maybe a bell at the baby gate would work for you?


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## b4ruby (Sep 3, 2016)

Numerous friends of ours have used the bell by the door but it became a major problem. There was constant ringing to go in and out all day, and not just for peeing. 

Lincoln also sits by the door quietly to go out. He just started this behavior about a month ago. Sometimes he just sits at the door to watch birds. 

I bet Miko will soon have control over his bladder, he's probably still distracted with all of the gaiety that happens in your household. I forgot one thing that I noticed Lincoln used to do was to not fully empty his bladder when he went out. He pees on command and we would insist he go a 2nd time. The urine volume was much greater the second peeing then the first.


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## MikoMN (Nov 29, 2016)

Thanks again b4ruby. We will maybe try the Pee twice trick if we notice it was too quick the first time.

Gatsby2015: We have thought about the bell many times, but just can't seem to actually start it. I have a feeling he would just turn it into a "let's go outside and play" bell. He already paces back and forth to all the windows and sliding door. The problem is, he has no interest in going outside to play unless we are with him. Being with him outside more than once or twice a day for 20 min. isn't really possible for us. during the winter months particularly.


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