# Other types of training for hunting dogs



## vangtt (Feb 27, 2014)

Hi all - I am interested in getting my dog into hunting (more specifically training for field tests for now). I also want to get him into a bunch of obedience & agility classes (yeah i know sort of ambitious). Sound like there are quite a few experienced hunters here...I am wondering what your thoughts are on whether other types of training may interfere or slow down hunting training or vice versa? I have heard that some do not teach their dog the sit command because it may interfere with the woa command?


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Most of us that hunt just wait to teach sit until the pup is steady on birds. You could always teach the pup to stand (not move) until that time has past. 
Some pups that have been taught sit don't have a problem, but others will sit when put under pressure on birds.
If you want to run derbies, then you want the pup to be bold in the field, and on birds. I would let him run in every field possible while young and encourage him to run to the front. The farther, the better. Early intro to birds is important. He is at the age where he is just starting to learn his world, and everything is new and exciting. Let him chase everything that flies including butterflies and grasshoppers. He will be learning fields have holes and some plant are prickly.
These dogs are smart and can do many things.
Just don't put to much pressure on them to early.
You will have a obedient pup, but will lose style and boldness.


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## MeandMy3 (Feb 27, 2013)

Texas Red - thanks for the reminder to not pressure the dogs too early. Just a little story...

When my husband and I got our first dog together, since she was big (a lab) I insisted she be as well-trained as possible. While extremely obedient, she is not a great hunter. She is more worried about being obedient than hunting. Our 2nd dog (another lab) was the class clown of her obedience classes - I would tell her to stay and turn and walk away from her and she would belly crawl behind me. After she got basic manners, I gave up. She is a machine in the field. Because of this, we taught our Vizsla the basics and expect good manners from her, but are not so strict on her obedience. She is really coming into her own in the field. I wish I had not felt the pressure to have the perfectly behaved/obedient dog when we got our oldest.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

We all make mistakes along the way.
The good part is we learn from them, and pass the information on to others.
If I didn't have help from more experienced people, I would never have gotten as far as I have with my dogs.


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

I know of people who do agility, rally, dock diving, etc with their hunting dogs so it's totally doable. I'm a newbie to hunting so I can't really advise whether these other activities will interfere with hunt training. Just make sure you use separate commands so the dog knows what job it is supposed to be doing.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I hope forum members didn't get the idea that I thought it wasn't doable. I do believe these dogs can compete in multi venues. You just have to train a puppy, like a puppy.
They just don't have the same gusto if you push them to hard, or to soon.
A good read would be Jack Sharkey's Winning Ways.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

vangtt
Have you considered showing him in the ring, before doing any obedience, or agility competition.
You would be getting him socialized to a lot of new things, and there is no sit involved. Agility training needs to wait till he is older. You have to protect the joints on these pups, and heavy forced exercise at a early age is not recommended.


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## MeandMy3 (Feb 27, 2013)

TexasRed - I didn't think that at all. I just appreciated you reminding me of the patience factor. I was one of those first-time dog mom's that wanted to do everything right away. It didn't work so well in our family and taught me that patience is truly a virtue.


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## SuperV (Oct 18, 2011)

TexasRed said:


> ......
> Just don't put to much pressure on them to early.
> You will have a obedient pup, but will lose style and boldness....


TexasRed - i have read that before, but have a hard time understanding the philosophy/theory/rational behind it...I believe its true, but I haven't been able to grasp or have anyone explain the theory behind it ....in other words where do you draw the line in allowing a pup to be unruly and without obedience training, vs working on training on a regular basis?

I know constantly hacking and calling you dog back at an early age will shorten their range, but i don't fully understand the effect of training and boldness. I am very curious on this, because my dog could use a few upticks in the boldness department and want to understand if it was a training approach I might have used... I already know i called her back to me a little much at an early age, which has resulted in her being relatively close working dog...

Disclaimer: I am an engineer and tend to think to much...gray areas are hard for engineers to grasp - ;D


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## vangtt (Feb 27, 2014)

Thanks for all your insights everyone!

@ TexasRed - I have not considered doing any shows with him. I do plan on taking him to puppy kindergarten starting 3/17. I wish it was sooner as he will be 9 weeks by then. Yup - I don't plan on doing any agility training with him until he's older. I'd like an obedient dog first, good hunting dog second, and then agility last. 

@ MeandMy3 - I second that! The patience factor is something I've read about but still need to remind myself constantly. I am also one of those parents that want everything (obedience anyways) right away. I've been trying to tone it back a bit.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

That's a good question, and I think its ones that is sometimes misunderstood. You are not allowing the pup to be unruly, and have no obedience training. Its just you work with it in a easy manner. Your not on a strict timeline, your on his time. The pup is taught to go with you on lead. He does not have to be at heel, but not yanking you around either. Heel can come later when he gets to a bolder stage in the field, and on birds. 
You don't want to be a helicopter owner. Hovering over and thinking/commanding is every move. Let him run and explore the fields. If it won't hurt him, let him figure it out. If he catches a bird that was not a good flyer, oh well. Don't correct him, just say nothing. If he brings it to you, let him carry it for a while and then pet and praise him.
Only call him when he is already headed to you. He doesn't need to be recalled constantly. These are smart thinking dogs, and learn a great deal by trial and error. So let them make mistakes, to figure out the correct way. They learn it much better than doing it by force. If one of my pups jumps up on me, I just keep walking. He doesn't get the response he is looking for. Later when he stands still I give him attention. Some are tougher on this than others but they figure it out. If one of my older dogs jumped on me I would tell them NO Down. They would have to follow direction.
My point is treat/train a puppy like a puppy. Formal training is for when they are older. 

I watched what was once a bold young dog, so unsure of herself that she would not even stay on point without running back to her owners side. He had over handled her and she was expecting a correction, even when there was no correction coming. She was his first pup and he had been watching the AA dogs run. He wanted his 8 month old pup to act just like the AA dogs. It took years for them in training, to do what he wanted out of his young pup. She was becoming less of a hunting dog, but a very obedient companion. 
These dogs will literally shutdown, if to much pressure is applied.


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## sniper john (Jun 17, 2010)

Good discussion. 

During this fall and spring season with my two year old Dash I have done training for and entered him in AKC pointing hunt tests, AKC Retriever Tests, and UKC/HRC Retriever tests. Also his first field trail and first barnhunt. Dash has a double pointer test coming up, three AKC retriever tests, and two to five HRC retriever tests before this spring season is over. I am going to start training him for Barnhunt soon. May even run him in a coursing ability test for the fun of it. Note, I do very little training for anything with Dash during actual hunting seasons. 

During his first Fall/Spring season I entered him in and trained him for NAVHDA, Conformation, and AKC Pointer and Retriever tests. And we did a group weekly AKC obedience class. 

And I of course train him for real hunting. But again other than on the job experience, I do very little training during hunting season. Dash has gone quail, pheasant, snipe, duck, woodcock, squirrel, and rabbit hunting. He has retrieved geese during marsh, frozen lake, open water, and field goose hunts. He has been used successfully or tracking on feral hog and turkey hunts. He has a 5 point major, JH title, NAVHDA NA Prize One, and should finish one or both of his retriever titles this spring. 

If you learn to read into the dog when training is conflicting and should be postponed or changed, to learn to train the dog you see and not the dogs you owned and trained before, to focus mostly on positive training methods but still have an understanding of all training methods, to keep short term and long term training goals reasonable, to never give a command you can't enforce, and of course have patience. Do that and I believe most well bred Vizslas can successfully be trained for multiple venues with positive results that far outweigh any negative ones. What might suffer in training so many things at the same time is that it will take much longer for a dog to be at his best in a single activity or venue over training for a single activity or venue only. 

By working with my dog so often for and in so many venues and exposing him to so many experiences I feel gave him more trust in me, a closer bond to me individually, a servant's heart, at times incredible boldness, and a better ability to problem solve. 

Those last two have also proven to be a problem sometimes.


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