# Not "picking up"



## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

Lately Ruby seems to be reluctant to pick up and retrieve game especially if it's not been a clean kill shot. I've been giving her lots of encouragement to fetch but she seems content to just stand over it and wait for me to pick it, not good, imo.
Any ideas on how to get her back on track?


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

I asked this question two years ago and got this answer (from Aimless1):
http://www.superiorpointers.com/retrieving.html

Another way is to fence in an enclosure 15'x 6' rectangle with one end open and throw a wing or pigeon with locked wings and have the dog retrieve it until the dog reliable 100% of the time. 
I tried this and it worked for my dog, except I used a scented dummy bird and bumpers. 
If the dog fails after it graduated from the enclosure, it goes back to retrieving in the enclosure until reliable again. 

Wouldn't want to suggest force breaking, though... Texasred promised to start a FF thread earlier ;D


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## Vida (Dec 26, 2011)

I'm no gun dog trainer,so I'll just offer my observations.
Maybe you could make her keener with a few small birdies to chase at home?
I remember the pic of her ignoring the swans? Do you think that desensitization may curb her drive? 
It's a fine line between a 'birdie' dog,and a crazy running thing. :-\
Keep us posted?


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

I don't know Vida, we quite often get pigeons on the TV aerial on the roof, so I'll pop them with the air rifle but she's just not picking them up, she'll find them no probs when they're down but just stands over them.


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

Hey Doug,

Maybe a nice bit of light reinforcement training/ play, just you and her along your canal or river may help her out a bit.

Here's a helpful vid with a nice looking pup 

He's got a shock collar on her but I don't think he uses it much during this session!

Nice section with trainer with hand in pups mouth reinforcing hold command all very 'gentle', no distractions!

http://youtu.be/nN5RkNdioJU

Hobbsy 8)


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

Where some gloves masks all she or he does in your yard with Scents that matter 

Don't care the object used

I would load a **** bird wing loaded with real bird liquid scents and a trout Rod start 15 yards max 

and the facts HUNTING REAL SKILLED WILD BIRDS WORKING Your Mates the Dog Must never breach 40 yards max 

I hunt 30 yards out or bring them back to me

the dog must work tight to load others dreams'

longer swings left and right is fine but never overload a young dog 3 hunters 1 dog max'

matters little the fields as we stack each hunter 25 yards separate max'

few birds make it through this process

with a back door stopper 

the birds will hold and they feel the pressure of the stopper and 4 legs means a Predator/Song Dog, Fox to them.


and your mate will gain much using this on fetch, soft mouth birdy and the upland dna codes there blessed



**** bird, quail and more

Take a small step back reward each win and mask all humaness we all carry

match the hatch bro

like pure sports pro fishing and use a whistle and hand commands working the rewards back

and enforce fun / Work the same Games.

As you gain his skills or Hers grab a kid or bud hit a small field with birds of choice and used the other as a rear door stopper

Which in fact the birds will hold longer and make your Mates Learning curve back to a Upland Hunting machine Finisher

Mate ;D 8)

That pup The Pic I posted always have a working trail just not words 

was a Golden Cupcake dog and was very young

was brought to me to make it work and hunt

1 pass 1 field 12 quail

The process was brought back to him and He was very Young

by the correct scents the correct rewards and hard work


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

Our two have been getting a little complacent recently with the retrieve to hand!! :-\

So a bit of fun/ retrieve down on the river this afternoon while spotting the salmon laying up in deep pools while the river levels are low!! 

They seem to like this spot as its shallow but fast moving!! ( the dogs not the salmon!!)

http://youtu.be/EXjb1sY4YWk

Hobbsy


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Some pointing dogs are more about the find, than they are the retrieve. My guess is she is looking at retrieving as just work, and doesn't care to do it. When steadying a dog to wait for the retrieve, we can run into this problem. Its because we are asking the dog to retrieve on our terms, not theirs. This is why a lot of dogs are force fetched.
Her desire to please you, and how strong of a drive she has to retrieve will determine what will work.
You can try using cripples to bring back the desire.
You can try using another dog to get the receives and she only gets to watch. Sometimes the competition gets to them.
Other people stop all retrieving for a while, and the see if the break helps.
Ken was working on clicker training the retrieve.
You can also teach her Fetch and Hold from your hand. Even though its the first steps of Force Fetch, it can be done without much pressure. She will know the commands but they will not be written in stone to her.
I don't ever consider FF until the dog has had a full season on birds. If she were mine I wouldn't worry about the retrieve until after you hunt her this season.
Yes it a pain to have to go get your own birds, but she will still find them for you. You will be building her desire and knowledge of hunting. After that time she you can put more rules on her. 

*Texasred promised to start a FF thread earlier * ;D

I don't think there is enough hunters on the forum for a force fetch thread. It would just be shut down. 
Most of the forum members are to soft hearted to hear or see how its done. The training is not pretty or nice, and plenty of dogs shut down till its complete.


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)




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## Reeka The Vizsla (Jul 10, 2013)

I had to force fetch my dog, the key to it in my opinion is to always keep the dog up (happy). I do not promote doing it, but personally I think it is good for both the dog and owner because in the long run it is a lot more praising than being hard on the dog. 

But, I agree with TexasRed, some people may take force fetching the wrong way.


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## huntvizsla (Jun 8, 2013)

Not certain if this will help - but may be worth the try. I have been working with a friend with a possessive DD pup and this made a difference with his pup. We progressed from dead pigeons to live mallards in about 2 weeks. 

Key here is praise - not what but when. Only praise pup when the bird is in her mouth. Toss a bird wing (to make it easy), ask her to fetch in an excited high voice, do NOT hold her back if she wants to run out to the wing right away, and only when she has it in her mouth provide praise. Keep praising UNTIL she drops it - then be quiet. If she offers to pick it up again PRAISE again. Keep doing this till she gets the idea that you want her to hold the wing. Do not worry about the return until she understands this step. You will feel like a broken record ;D but she should get the message. 

Now that she has that concept understood (at least 8 out of 10 tries she holds the wing in her mouth) you can put her on a light check cord, toss the wing, ask her to fetch and praise praise praise while she has it in her mouth. Start calliing her to come and slowly reel her in. If she drops the wing immedialty stop the praise, say nothing, just pick up the wing, call her close and do again. If she comes part way back and drops the wing, try backing away from her to draw her in to you - its suprising how well this technique works on pack mentality animals.

Timing is critical. if you are one or two seconds early or late with the praise then the pup will not quite understand what she is doing right, and it will take longer for her to learn.

It may take a few sessions but you should have her coming back to you with the wing in her mouth.

Once she is consistent (8 out of 10 rule) I would move up to a dead quail, then pigeon, then chukar and so on. Even better yet if you hunt woodcock and have one in the freezer add that to the mix, since many dogs seem to object at first to getting their mouths sullied by that wormy tasting thing. 

After dead game you can move back to live game repeating the same exersize. It sounds painfully slow, but each dog progresses at their own pace and you may find you can move ahead quicker at certain stages than others. Just back up a step if you run into a mental block with the pup. 

FWIW I am a proponent of force fetch and, if it were moderated, would be interested in seeing a thread started on it. I do, however, use the above technique on all my dogs in preparation for their first hunting season since they aren't FF till they are well over a year old.

Happy hunting!


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

I did ear hold, not even pinching and he got it. Took weeks, but I have all the patience and time. Didn't have the nerve to do the toe hitch, though.


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## huntvizsla (Jun 8, 2013)

I have never tried the toe pinch - seems unhandy after learning to use an ear hold/pinch to require the hold and fetch commands. Are any trainers currently teaching toe pinch anymore?

FWIW I did a two day seminar with Evan Graham and found that to be very useful, gave me confidence that I needed to start, and some wonderful feedback. His dogs are all very happy retrieving hounds (yes labs) but the seminar was held for versatile pointing dog people. My big take away was that I needed to learn how to moderate my corrections so there is just enough pressure to get the dog to complete a known command when refusing. Commands that are not well understood should not recieve correction. And, finally - every session ends on a high note. Several members brought their started dogs so we got to see actual application of the techniques and actual results with the dogs. VERY COOL.


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