# E Collar Round 2



## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

I know I know... another E collar thread. 

As some may remember, we E collar trained Miles last spring when he was 16 months old. 

As I understand, with Chase we need to wait until he is 6 months. He is turning 5 months next week, so we are ordering the "add a collar" to Miles' system over the weekend. Like we did with Miles, we will have him start wearing it in the off mode when we get it for a month to get used to the feel and associate it with fun outings. 

When we turn it on in about 5 weeks, is there anything different I should consider when training Chase in regards to E collar training a puppy vs. a young adult dog? It went very smoothly with Miles and I'd like Chase to have the same experience.


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## SuperV (Oct 18, 2011)

I would only remind you to think of it as a nuisance collar and not a shock collar. Point being is the goal with e-collar is to offer a mild/low level annoyance much like a leash tug does. When first using it, you'll need to show your dog how he can turn it off/make it stop. You want use it with a command he already knows....so for instance... Recall, put your dog on a check chord, call him/her, and simultaneous to the leash tug, off low level of e-collar stim. Both the tugs and the stim will stop, when he/she is at your side. Eventually you can do away with the leash tug, and only use the stim/e-collar. 

Nate


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

Yes, hence why I used "E collar" term vs "shock collar." I very rarely use the shock function on Miles. Just the tone. 

Before we got Chase I rarely used any function on him because his recall was so good. Now Miles gets a bit more distracted with Chase so he has been getting a tone reminder more than usual, but he is responsive. 

We have the collar set on level 1 for Miles. Chase is much more stubborn than M, so we will see what level his will be at.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I trained all my dogs the same even though they were at different ages when learning. Just had to adjust the setting to fit the pup. I found the higher prey driven dogs needed a higher level at first, but was able to lower it after they had the training down. The stubborn dogs tried harder to figure out a different way to turn the collar off, other than the correct one. I was glad they did it during training, so it never came up in the field.


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## Carolina Blue (Sep 20, 2012)

I have an ecollar for Kiya - she is just getting used to wearing it right now. Her recall is pretty good until she decides she wants to go for a run, like down the street by herself. She will come to me, but of course, I can't have her running laps around my neighbors house; plus i have to listen and figure out where she is. Would an ecollar help these bolting incidents?


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

Carolina said:


> I have an ecollar for Kiya - she is just getting used to wearing it right now. Her recall is pretty good until she decides she wants to go for a run, like down the street by herself. She will come to me, but of course, I can't have her running laps around my neighbors house; plus i have to listen and figure out where she is. Would an ecollar help these bolting incidents?


Definitely!


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## Carolina Blue (Sep 20, 2012)

I need to train myself before starting on her. I'm concerned that even giving her a nip will make her run off in fright. She got shocked by an electric fence once and that memory is burned in her brain. I don't want the experience with the collar to end up the same. Of course with the fence she got a huge jolt of power...afraid of horses now.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

This is why we first find out the dogs number before the training starts, and have them on a lead. They stay on the lead until they learn how to turn the pressure off.


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

SuperV said:


> I would only remind you to think of it as a nuisance collar and not a shock collar. Point being is the goal with e-collar is to offer a mild/low level annoyance much like a leash tug does. When first using it, you'll need to show your dog how he can turn it off/make it stop. You want use it with a command he already knows....so for instance... Recall, put your dog on a check chord, call him/her, and simultaneous to the leash tug, off low level of e-collar stim. Both the tugs and the stim will stop, when he/she is at your side. Eventually you can do away with the leash tug, and only use the stim/e-collar.
> 
> Nate


Are you having a laugh?????

It's not a nuisance collar it's a shock collar... End of!!!!!

Has absolutely no connection with check cord what so ever, a handler with patience is usally at the end of a check cord!!

Keep kidding yourselves.... Keep on shocking :

Hobbsy


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## mrmra (Jul 18, 2013)

Good thread, thanks. We range my boy pretty far forward in some of his scent training -- he can disappear pretty far ahead if we send him on a scent trail. So I want to tone-train him with a hunting collar to return from long distance. Not for a couple more months. Any more advice on when people generally start to train to tone? 6 months at earliest, from MilesMom. Any other thoughts on when? My boy's still just 18-19 weeks, so it'll still be awhile.

Cheers,
-mra-


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

mrmra said:


> Good thread, thanks. We range my boy pretty far forward in some of his scent training -- he can disappear pretty far ahead if we send him on a scent trail. So I want to tone-train him with a hunting collar to return from long distance. Not for a couple more months. Any more advice on when people generally start to train to tone? 6 months at earliest, from MilesMom. Any other thoughts on when? My boy's still just 18-19 weeks, so it'll still be awhile.
> 
> Cheers,
> -mra-



Do yourself and your Pup a favour and buy yourself a couple of Acme Whistles, same result's just a bit cheaper!!!!

Your pups are like children really, the more time you invest in them, the more you get out of them. :

Hobbsy


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

We did it all.... cord training, treat training, leash time when he didn't listen, whistling. Took him to a trainer and he was an absolute angel of course so that was no help. I never thought we would use an E collar, but here we are now and we are very happy with the decision. He's 100% reliable, no longer chases mountain bikes, stays on the trail in potentially risky areas, and is more more enjoyable to play fetch with. When we go to Palm Springs we can let him roam the unfenced yard without worrying he's going to race out onto the course and get us in trouble.

We are very lucky to live in an area with many trails and beaches, but some of them are in busy areas or at times will cross a road. We go to remote trails on weekends, but weekdays we are on local trails. We need him to be safe. I'll take a shock over being hit by a car any day. 

This thread is not a debate about E collars, I already use one, not going to change my mind. I feel so much more relaxed when he's wearing it and it has kept him safe on multiple occasions. 

Any other tips on E collar training a pup are welcomed. We are trying to be responsible and set up the best possible situation for Chase.


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## SuperV (Oct 18, 2011)

hobbsy1010 said:


> SuperV said:
> 
> 
> > I would only remind you to think of it as a nuisance collar and not a shock collar. Point being is the goal with e-collar is to offer a mild/low level annoyance much like a leash tug does. When first using it, you'll need to show your dog how he can turn it off/make it stop. You want use it with a command he already knows....so for instance... Recall, put your dog on a check chord, call him/her, and simultaneous to the leash tug, off low level of e-collar stim. Both the tugs and the stim will stop, when he/she is at your side. Eventually you can do away with the leash tug, and only use the stim/e-collar.
> ...



Hobbsy, you should probably email Garmin/Tritronics and let them know their manual is wrong then. They clearly have it all wrong... I provided an excerpt from the Alpha manual and also cut/pasted from the Tritronics site...


http://www.tritronics.com/content/dog-training-information/tips/

"Later in the stop to flush training, when I see that the dog is starting to understand, I will use the e-collar in the momentary mode at the same time that I stop the dog with the check-cord. If yard training has been properly taught with the e-collar, this comes together very fast. The dog will understand it and will not be intimidated in any way."

And the reference to thinking of it as a nuisance isn't to be politically correct, its help the person understand that it isn't always to be used to electrocute your dog to death...

For being an Elite member, I would have thought you would have had a clue....

Nate


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

SuperV said:


> hobbsy1010 said:
> 
> 
> > SuperV said:
> ...


Nate,

Keep you Garmin/Tritronics manual in your arse pocket along with your spare batteries for your shock collar!!

Ozkar
Elite Member

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Posts: 2,177
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Re: Please help, patience wearing thin!!
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2013, 12:14:14 AM »
LikeQuote
Quote from: Vida on February 24, 2013, 11:50:00 PM


I ask again, politely. How do the rest of us who don't use e-collars get our dogs to do anything we ask of them???
I truly believe in my values, and stick by them.
Good luck!

I'm totally with you Vida. I do not and will not use them. In my mind, if i have to use one, I've failed, not the pup. I have a little secret method I use. Lots of people won't use it as it requires a couple of ingredients some people do not have. Patience, time, repetition and consistency. that's honestly how I do, and have always, trained my pups. That and lots of love.

Data, as for a solid and reliable recall, mine are as good as they get and have never had an ecollar nor barely a harsh word!! Mine do it because they get it, not because I make them do it!! I like it that way and I feel much better about things when I curl up in bed with them at night! Just had to put that in there as there are other ways rather than an ecollar.

Report to moderator Logged
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Check out all the adventures of Ozkar, Astro and Zsa Zsa at http://aussievizsladiaries.blogspot.com.au/


Member, Elite Member, Super Member, Moderator doesn't mean Jack to me!!

Correct me if I'm wrong but this forum has always welcomed Opinions...... This is mine!

Cut and paste till your blue in the face!!

Patience, Time, Consistency and Repetition is the way We Role!!

Hobbsy


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

Ok people. We have already had the e collar vs. no e collar debate several times. If you don't need one, good for you! That's awesome. If we lived in a more remote area I doubt we would need one. And if your dog is very responsive to your methods, that's so great. I'm sincerely happy for you. 

For me, I need my dog to be safe. We put the time in, if you have read any of my posts you will know my dogs are well cared for and get 3+ hours of exercise/ training a day and because we work full time I try to make their exercise off leash to get the most out of their exercise time. Chase is getting 30 min training each morning with my husband on top of exercise, and each time I have Miles out we work on training. I put the time in. It wasn't enough. I have used the shock function less than 10 times in the 6 months we have had it. I've done it on my own arm and I'm a huge baby when it comes to pain. 

If you want to debate E collars please start a new thread. I started the thread, and I'm only interested in training my puppy successfully on the E collar so he can join me and Miles on our off leash adventures.


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## SuperV (Oct 18, 2011)

Sorry milesmom...hopefully my posts were of some value and met the intent of your original question. I had no intentions of discussing the pros and cons of them, just how they supposed to be used. Hobbsy's comment about it having nothing to do with the check chord/leash is just simply an inaccurate statement and thought it should be corrected for future readers.

Regards,
Nate


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

It's no problem just re directing!! Already had enough criticism starting e collar on miles so didn't want to start that again. We like the collar.


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

MilesMom said:


> Ok people. We have already had the e collar vs. no e collar debate several times. If you don't need one, good for you! That's awesome. If we lived in a more remote area I doubt we would need one. And if your dog is very responsive to your methods, that's so great. I'm sincerely happy for you.
> 
> For me, I need my dog to be safe. We put the time in, if you have read any of my posts you will know my dogs are well cared for and get 3+ hours of exercise/ training a day and because we work full time I try to make their exercise off leash to get the most out of their exercise time. Chase is getting 30 min training each morning with my husband on top of exercise, and each time I have Miles out we work on training. I put the time in. It wasn't enough. I have used the shock function less than 10 times in the 6 months we have had it. I've done it on my own arm and I'm a huge baby when it comes to pain.
> 
> ...



Not a debate, just an opinion......

As other readers to this post may or may not have!

Healthy opinions equal healthy breed.....just my opinion of course!!!


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

let's keep on thread folks, MilesMom asked an e-collar question and not a "do you, don't you" question.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

as long as they make batteries this will V a debate - Har put the ? back in prospective - no different than whistle - voice - hand signals - just answer the ? - if you dislike it - post a new subject about it LOL


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

What sort of tips are you looking for Milesmom?


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

We trained Miles when he was about 16 months on the E collar. Gun Dog Supply recommended waiting until 6 months for Chase, but I was wondering if I should make any considerations training a puppy on it vs. Miles who was a young adult.


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

I think that vizslas are different from many of the Gun Dogs that gundogsupply is directing it's advice to. As a whole, vizslas CAN be softer, and slower to mature. So, I would try and ask yourself if Chase is ready. If you feel that he is ready, and if he is giving you the finger, so to speak, you can start to work with him. The thing that must be ensured is to determine whether or not the dog knows the command. 

When I am first using the e-collar, I start with the check cord and overlay the ecollar. So, to the dog, there is no difference between the ecollar and the correction that comes with the check cord. I think, that is a large part of the misconception that people have with the e-collar. They just assume the dog is burned with the collar all the time. Unfortunately, many people have misused the ecollar, but to make a grand assumption that all people who use them, use them incorrectly is extremely unfortunate. The e-collar, when used properly, should just be considered an extension of the check cord. If properly overlayed, the nick on the ecollar should be a stimulating as a tug on the check cord. 

If you have specific questions shoot me a PM. I can try and explain how I train mine with it.


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

Thanks!! 

That's how we trained Miles. He is soft and I think it's good we waited for adulthood for him. 

Chase is bold, fearless, and is starting to square off to me when I call him. He very well knows what "come" is, as he's been walking off leash since 12 weeks and he's almost 5 months. He is challenging us much younger than Miles did. I believe that he will be ready at 6 months. We are working hard with him each morning for 30 minutes on his commands so we will be sure that he has a good grasp of commands. Sounds like training will be similar to how we trained Miles, so we will proceed!


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

John brings up a good point. Mine were ecollar conditioned at different times, even though they were all bought as puppies. The youngest collar trained 6 months old, and the oldest was 9 months old. I start ecollar training when they hit the teenage stage.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Good reply's to a great post - MM - you answerd most of your own ?'s - 6mo or older - basic commands - now the forum fine tunes it


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

MilesMom said:


> Ok people. We have already had the e collar vs. no e collar debate several times. If you don't need one, good for you! That's awesome. If we lived in a more remote area I doubt we would need one. And if your dog is very responsive to your methods, that's so great. I'm sincerely happy for you.
> 
> For me, I need my dog to be safe. We put the time in, if you have read any of my posts you will know my dogs are well cared for and get 3+ hours of exercise/ training a day and because we work full time I try to make their exercise off leash to get the most out of their exercise time. Chase is getting 30 min training each morning with my husband on top of exercise, and each time I have Miles out we work on training. I put the time in. It wasn't enough. I have used the shock function less than 10 times in the 6 months we have had it. I've done it on my own arm and I'm a huge baby when it comes to pain.
> 
> If you want to debate E collars please start a new thread. I started the thread, and I'm only interested in training my puppy successfully on the E collar so he can join me and Miles on our off leash adventures.





R said:


> Good reply's to a great post - MM - you answerd most of your own ?'s - 6mo or older - basic commands - now the forum fine tunes it



Certainly did REM.....

Working full time (like most) but wanting a 'quick fix' collar solution to a time old problem!!!

They are a fabulous hunting breed and make a fabulous family dog..... When they finally mature and if you put the time into them!!!

Hobbsy


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

yes heaven forbid I live in a populated area and don't want my dog to get hit by a car, bitten by a rattlesnake, jumped by a coyote, or run up to a friendly dog. 

many people who use E collars can wean off of them. 

I really feel that you have overstepped here and are being quite offensive. I love and care for my dogs, and would appreciate if you would stay out of this E collar thread or start your own on how much you hate them and how great you are that you don't need one. 

We all have our strength, apparently mine are crate training and bite inhibition since neither of our dogs had shark attacks or had difficulty crate training. Offer some advice as an elite member on what you are good at but don't bash those who need help in other areas. We are not all recall masters.


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

Live in a populated area myself.....

Never mastered in anything......

Still learning, everyday.......

Elite Member........So What, Just a boring time stat thing here!!

Certainly not a recall master to this breed!

Good luck with your pups, you and you only, will eventually know them the best.

Never meant to 'bash' just to offer another opinion!



Hobbsy


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Hob ? - R U going soft like R V's - think not ! down & dirty in the field LOL - stay the course - opinions are just that - PIKE & I Value yours - next time U sugar coat ! PIKE & I will hunt U down - LOL - just A wake up call - LOL - !!!!!!!!!


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

When my daughters were teenagers I fashioned a "jock-strap" version of an e-collar for all teenage boys who asked to date my daughters. While I cleaned my 20 gauge shotgun in the living room and checked the transponder to make sure it was "live", I wished them both to have a good night and told the young man to make sure to have her back by 11:00

Now they are grown with kids of their own. 
8)
Have a great weekend.

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/02/best-use-of-bark-collar.html

RBD


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Hob & RBD - Colubus day will start as it has 4 last 14 years - Pics 2 follow - if it gets better than this - PLEASE SHOOT ME & my V !


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

MM - no reason 2 defend yourself or your V's - you liVe the life - step back - a deep breath - then as PIKE & I say - KISS my V's Azz - in the field - that is the only thing that you will see - LOL - just the TRUTH !!!!!!!!


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

Have a great weekend ALL....

Pups...enjoy your time with your HUMANE'S!!!!

http://hodj.smugmug.com/photos/i-bw2ZCrm/0/X3/i-bw2ZCrm-X3.png

Happy Hunting  

Hobbsy

PS.
MilesMom, we may be 'Miles' apart but I'll cut to the 'Chase'.....

We both love our V's


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

For those of you who DO USE an E collar... (please be nice and keep this on topic) 

If you have multiple dogs are you using a dual system or 2 separate systems? I was going to get the add a collar to Miles' system, and now I am leaning towards getting Chase his own. Pros and cons to both sides, but was now thinking that if the dogs were separated would be nice to have 2, but will be a pain to carry two remotes. 

Thoughts from those who have experience in this matter?


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## SuperV (Oct 18, 2011)

I don't have two dogs...yet... but my plan is to use two collars with one unit. I would think the key would be how easily you can switch between the dogs and how easily you can discern which collar you are controlling. You'll also want to remember the two dogs may require differing levels. So there may be a few things to "check" before nicking them...


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

MM - on multi collar units the collars & transmitter are color coded - ask steve at gundogsupply - the better systems when you switch between pups remember the stimulation levels 4 each pup - 2 of the most important ?'s - how far your pups range & terrain where they run


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## MeandMy3 (Feb 27, 2013)

We have one remote for two collars. My husband uses it more than I do and it is mostly for safety purposes (like don't run towards the road). It works well for us. We bought the Tritonic system last year, but now they have been taken over by Garmin. Good luck!


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

MilesMom said:


> For those of you who DO USE an E collar... (please be nice and keep this on topic)
> 
> If you have multiple dogs are you using a dual system or 2 separate systems? I was going to get the add a collar to Miles' system, and now I am leaning towards getting Chase his own. Pros and cons to both sides, but was now thinking that if the dogs were separated would be nice to have 2, but will be a pain to carry two remotes.
> 
> Thoughts from those who have experience in this matter?


I run three collars off of one transmitter. I have the tritronics anc cannot recommend them high enough. Very easy to use, the design on them is easy and simple to use. It's built like a tank too. I left the transmitter on the top of my car  it fell off going down the highway at 65 mph, and I picked it up, and I'm still using it. The collars take so much abuse from water, and sunlight and whatever else the dogs put them through. It is so much easier and nicer to carry one transmitter around (only so much pocket room) and easier to switch between the two collars. And also it's cheaper.


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

Ok sounds like most people use one transmitter. That's what Sam just recommended at Gun Dog too. 

I may buy the whole system and link the collar to Miles' and then we have the extra remote in case.... but it's a lot of money if we never use the extra remote.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I also run three dogs with tritronics .
I like their Pro units, both the 100 and 500 great. I like that each number has a low, medium and high. It keeps me from having to change the stimulation number when switching between dogs. 
Their Sport basic is good for one dog. Its just not as easy to transfer between dogs. I like to be able to use just one hand. Carrying a gun in the other, and may have gloves on at the time.


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## maplevizsla (Oct 26, 2012)

Love my Dogtra 2500 Train N Beep e-collar.


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