# Out of Standard Pup?



## BobK (Jun 4, 2013)

We have a chance to pick up this puppy who comes from major champion parents but sure appears to be out of standard with the white on his head paws and chest. He was 5 weeks old when the photo was taken. Do you think those spots might go away with his second coat or shrink to where he would be within standard?


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

They may shrink a little bit. Does the breeder have pictures of other puppies in the puppy and then later as adult dogs? That may give you an idea of how he will turn out.


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## GarysApollo (Nov 27, 2012)

They could i have seen them go away get smaller and stay. Its hard to say what will happen though. 

If you are not going to show or compete with him you should not let it affect you decision. I'm sure he will be beautiful either way.


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## stryker (Dec 9, 2012)

I had a vizsla who was out of bread by one inch but he was always a champion to me


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## Penny (Sep 22, 2011)

Our now 6 month old pup, also from champion stock, had similar 'out of standard' markings as a very young pup but, as we didn't intend to show him, it wasn't an issue to us. In fact, once the kids saw how he was different to the rest of the litter they immediately fell in love with him! He had quite marked pale yellow (not fully white) blobs on one shoulder blade and a line down his neck. Now, at 6 months, it has darkened and is practically unnoticeable unless you were looking for it. It's now the same shade as the lighter russet colours almost all vizslas have at the sides of their necks. By your photo it looks like the hair is not completely white either, so my guess is it will darken as he gets older.


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

Yes, if you aren't planning to get involved in the world of dog shows, you should probably snap him right up! He's adorable!! ;D ;D ;D


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Out of standard & will probably stay that way - hope the breeder gives a discount and limited registration - can still enter in HT's - fT's & agility ETC - Me I'm all go then show - a great pup that you can never breed and register the litter - most will never do that anyway - well bred & you love him !!!!!!!! GO 4 IT !!!!!!!


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Free Professional advice removed by Author.


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## that_girl (Aug 31, 2009)

My dog is also from champion hunting lines, but would be considered way out of standard for showing qualifications.

Here she is as a 5 week old pup.


And her as an adult.


She has a lot of white on her chest, belly and paws. The whole litter came out with too much white and were not registered or sold at breeding/showing cost. Schatze's color/patterns didn't change, her browns got darker and her whites whiter. What you see on them as puppies should be what you see on them as adults.

She's the best dog though. Very sweet, smart and well mannered. Wouldn't trade her for the world.  If you like the pup, go for him! Who care if a dog is out of standard. If you don't plan to breed or show and are only keeping him as a pet, you won't be disappointed.


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## lonestar (Jun 2, 2013)

My experience has been that what you see as a puppy is basically what you get as an adult. There's "Light" in color and then there's white, and you can tell pretty clearly by the time they're 6 weeks.

I agree that "Standard" is most important for the show world, that's about phenotype (remember that from high school?). The part that always concerns me when I see a dog who's obviously out of standard isnt so much phenotype (physical appearance) it's genotype (the unseen DNA). Aside from this dog being from "Big time Champions", I'd ask the breeder exactly where in the lines that white came from..and particularly what other issues those dogs might have had....dysplasia, epilepsy, Mast cells? Usually, a good breeder looks to avoid trouble, and although no matter how conscientious your breeding is, there's really more chance involved...these are critters, after all.

Before you say yay or nay, I'd ask more questions and look a little deeper. White woudnt bother me.. but a line of dogs with seizures or heart murmurs or dysplasia would. Just make sure the white is all phenotype and not related to other genotypical issues.


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## redrover (Mar 17, 2011)

Jasper has a white/roan spot on his chest and a little on his back toes. Not sure if that much white on the chest is a DQ, but since we don't do shows, I don't mind (I attached some of the better photos of his chest--if anyone in conformation has an opinion on whether it's DQ or not, I'd love to know!). 

As Ken said, make sure the pup's pedigree is really as good as you think it is. Hunting? Showing? What about further back than just parents? That said, sometimes white happens, and it can't necessarily be traced back to a genetic defect, but rather something that happened during embryonic development. Somewhere on the forum I wrote a biological explanation for where the white comes from. When it appears, it's pretty common on toes and chest. I think the "white spot" on the head might actually just be some lighter-colored fur--depending on the picture, Jasper had one too, though maybe not as light. If you're fully confident that the dog comes from excellent lines and will be able to do what you want it to do properly (hunt, companionship, therapy, whatever), then I probably wouldn't let a little white stop me.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

Ruby has a small white patch on her chest too, so small I have trouble convincing my O/H that it's there....but Ruby is well out of standard anyway (being a smooth/wire cross lol)


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## BobK (Jun 4, 2013)

Wow, thanks for all the replies! He was the only pup left as all the others had been spoken for and none of the others had any white at all. We aren't sure what our final goals will be with a pup so we didn't want to limit ourselves or have the pup DQd before we even start. I'm thinking we will pass on him and continue our search. We have found another litter about 3 days old and each of these pups have some white but it is really well defined in small area of the chest but with a more rust colored coat.


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