# Bolting



## Carolina Blue (Sep 20, 2012)

I am having a horrid problem with K bolting seemingly at nothing! I have worked with her on a long line come/click/treat - she does beautifully! I'm now working with on long line and boundary flags..again going well but we have only been at that for 2 weeks (yes, she bolted through the flags 2 times already). Most of the time she does return, but if there are other dogs out barking she freezes (always freaked out with others barking) and I have to go get her. When i see her, I can say COME! and she runs right to me, but not when she is in the middle of run mode. She knows when she is 'in training'. I can put her in a sit/wait and walk an acre about and call her..boom right there she is. 

I have tried ecollar training - before the knives start throwing - i took the simulation points off and just used vibrate or tone. With the vibrate she quickly turns, sits and looks at her butt; i tried it again - pull on lead and vibrate - basically she had a meltdown and would not do anything. Tone was worse!

When we are at a new place with other dogs - she comes and checks in with me - no problem. Just at home is where she runs. I have 2.5 acres that i would like for her to run on and stay out of my neighbors flower garden! :-\
Thanks!


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## emilycn (Jul 30, 2013)

Maybe it's a teenage thing and she'll grow out of it? I have to go get lua out in the yard when we're supposed to be going to bed, but she's sniffing out critters. There is no calling her back until she's ready to come in --- it's nice to see her prey drive, but it would be nicer if her ears didn't turn off when she's sniffing. I'll definitely give the ecollar a try with a trainer when I get back in August --- she's a fast learner, and i think the collar (ones with many, many levels including tone and vibrate) would be a great teaching aid to recall attention --- she knows what I want, but sometimes she's too busy to hear me. 

You could try getting a trainer in to teach you tips for using the ecollar given K's weird new reaction. Or maybe a behaviorist to help interpret what's going on in her mind in the different environment.


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## Carolina Blue (Sep 20, 2012)

I hope she grows out of it!! I tried a 'professional' trainer and things did not work out well. that very well be where the meltdowns started was with the pro. The trainer used a different collar than mine - when she hit the vibrate button, Kiya screamed bloody murder! I really wanted the ecollar to work out (either tone or vibrate), but I think she is damaged now.  So off we go with string cheese/clicker and working on our boundary marker flags.

Interested to know if anyone else has used this technique and what the results were.


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## SuperV (Oct 18, 2011)

What E-collar do you have? You should be able to provide a low level stim that its virtually unnoticeable (try it on yourself). If I use 1 low on myself, I can't even feel it... and 1 high is barely noticeable but not concerning.... But keep in mind - its a "sensation" it isn't pain. Crank it up and YES it can be quite painful.... I might say that the vibration offers more of a sensation than the e-stim does and was evidently quite startling to your girl. So much so that she clearly didn't know how to turn it off or react to it.....

Also - be sure to the e-collar is snug on the dogs neck. You should be able to fit two fingers under the collar. Mark the hole on the collar, so you can be certain you the dog feels the same intensity each time.... Also be sure to turn the stim down on a wet dog, as the conductivity goes up...

I might suggest trying the lowest stim level using the nick button. So with her on lead, call her and then nick her on 1 low constantly...nick nick nick nick nick nick nick nick........, and leash pull/tug the leash at the same time (my need a friend to help for an extra set of hands).... until she is at your side and sitting. The moment she sits at your side, stop nicking. I like to use the "sit" at the end of the recall so the dog has a very clear and defined scope of work. Her recall isn't finished until she is sitting, and she doesn't move until i release her.... anyway - i digress...


The check chord is setting her up to succeed. I am making the assumption that she already knows the recall commend and check chord routine. If she doesn't then do the recall, and use the check chord to reel her in and make her sit by your side (or stand). Once that routine is old hat for her, then layer in the e-collar, so now she'll think...."oh yeah I hear the recall, i feel the leash tug, and oh thats a weird sensation at my neck, but I know I am supposed to go back to my owner's side" She'll get back to your side and learn the not only does the leash tug stop, so does that sensation. If you start at 1 low, she shouldn't even feel the stim anyway...or maybe its just ever so slight...


Being that she is sooooo sensitive to these things. I would hang out on 1 low for a couple weeks or until i feel absolutely confident she won't react to 1 med (or whatever the next level of stim is). Every time I would keep her on the check chord to make sure she succeeds at what you are asking her to do. She needs to learn that to turn off the stim, she needs listen to your command and come back to your side. 

Eventually you reach an end goal where the dog only needs to feel the sensation and will listen. I think of it as you poking the dog on its shoulder and reminding them you can still reach out and touch them....

You only want to use the lowest level of stim required to get your desired reaction. You will find your dog will respond to a typical level 90% of the time. Put the same dog infront of a bird or chasing a rabbit, etc...the same dog will simply ignore that level, at which point you increase to the stim level to match the level the dog has in doing the undesired behavior....

If any of that doesn't make sense, please post up... E-Collars are great tools, when used correctly...and very bad tools when used poorly...

Nate


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

The only dogs I have seen melt down on a tone/vibration were for two reasons, but I'm sure there could be more.
One is from house alarm, or some other thing beeping in the house that scared them. It might have been a battery back up that beeped after electricity was off during a bad storm.
The other is from someone that uses tone/vibe. When the dog does not comply they are hit with to high of a number on the ecollar. In the dogs mind the beep/vibe means pain is on the way.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

> I might suggest trying the lowest stim level using the nick button. So with her on lead, call her and then nick her on 1 low constantly...nick nick nick nick nick nick nick nick........, and leash pull/tug the leash at the same time (my need a friend to help for an extra set of hands).... until she is at your side and sitting. The moment she sits at your side, stop nicking. I like to use the "sit" at the end of the recall so the dog has a very clear and defined scope of work. Her recall isn't finished until she is sitting, and she doesn't move until i release her.... anyway - i digress...


Although this method has been used on dogs for years and you are suggesting #1, I wouldn't use it on a dog that is shutting down.
We called it collar breaking years ago, but the numbers used was a lot higher.


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## SuperV (Oct 18, 2011)

i would also add, that make sure you dog is collar conditioned and isn't associating bad things with the collar. That may mean letting the dog wear the collar for a few weeks and not even turning it on. That also means making your dog wear it, even when you 

To TexasRed's point - my dog doesn't like beepers because we have a fire alarm above her crate and the battery died and was beeping all day when we weren't around. We could work to counter conditioning, but i don't prefer to use a beeper anyway, so its not a big deal for me...


Nate


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## Carolina Blue (Sep 20, 2012)

Thank you all for the replies! I tested the collar on level one on me and I could not feel it..so maybe I'll give that a try too. She has worn it out on walks and playing with her favorite ball and is fine. I think I will try doing that again and taking the remote with me as I have been leaving that out of site. (she would not come to me the last time I worked with her when she saw the remote as making that vibration..assuming)

I have a sport dog 1825 set on low! I don't know why they ship it set as medium default!

Check cord..she is awesome! Come every time even under distraction. Just gets the wild hair when off it or no tension on it.


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