# "Drag of the Race"



## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Intellectual Property Removed by Author.


----------



## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Ken,
My guess is that 95 to 98% of forum members have never had the opportunity (and many even the interest in going to a field trial) out in wide open spaces. 

If I use the car analogy it would be that most people would not drive a 100 miles or more to watch a Formula 1 race? 

Much of the performance in cars comes from racing, but only a very small fraction of the driving public get involved with this activity.

That's how it is. Cars run better because a certain type of person loves taking something towards perfection.

It is like that with the best breeders. They use the "all age" dogs for what it brings into the Vizsla. 

There are the 1% who go into something with PASSION. 

The other 99% get advantage of what the 1% do. For those with the passion, it is what they love to do. You can't buy or sell passion. 

A GREAT Vizsla has that 1% passion also. We call them "All Age Dogs." These are the dogs the best breeders look to breed with. These are the best of the hobby breeders. They don't do it for money: they do it for PASSION.

My .02

RBD


----------



## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

As RDB stated;

"There are the 1% who go into something with PASSION. The other 99% get advantage of what the 1% do."

Why do anything for that matter, if we adopt her philosophy?
Why train horses to perform Dressage? I mean really. Dressage is a battlefield training exercise for mounted horseman in battle, with swords, lances and pikes. What is done today resembles little of what it actually is for.
Why train horses for 3 day Eventing, or to field trial with a dog? Why train either one?
Why do so many Warmbloods and Quarter horses have a Thoroughbred hiding in the wood pile?
The answer: For the sheer athleticism that the Thoroughbred brings to the table. 
The same is true for the all age, hard charging field trailing dog. This dog brings back the athleticism to the breed and perpetuates the foundation stock from which all benefit. This is Thoroughbred of the breed. Born and bred to do nothing more than it was intended for. Hunt!

25 years ago the Vizsla was thought to be unsuitable for field trailing. "Velcro dogs" they were called, and it wasn't meant as a compliment. Many thought they were little more use afield than a pet shop Cocker Spaniel. People, fellow hunters, used to deride me about wasting my money on "half a hunting dog", and more a "boot licker", until they saw Boone go, and saw exactly what a Vizsla was all about. 
The dog that came after Boone, Silkcut, was an even bigger runner. Not the same intensity as Boone, but he could outrun a horse. Boone was focused power, Silkcut was lungs on legs, but my god could both of them hunt. Gunnr is between the two of them.

Is the All age dog important? Absolutely. Without those dogs in the mix, those of us that don't chase titles and trials, have less chance of getting a hunting dog that actually works.
Titles earned on the field are nice, and I respect the folks that peruse them for the purpose of bettering the breed, but if those titles don't actually demonstrate a complete dog they're meaningless.
A dog that trials well, and can actually hunt off a trials course, is the dog I want my dogs from.

I might be a little biased in this regard though. , ;D

PS.
I guess I should mention that we also own an ex race horse out of the AP Indy bloodline.
I love watching that hammer run. It takes your breath away. Unless of course you're already in the pasture and he's running up to you. Then it gets a little nervy.


----------



## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I just love a big running dog though they may not be for everyone. I believe they have their place in the breed, whether your a field trialer or hunt vast open land. In Texas we have the Coastal plains where a medium range dog fits well with a walking hunter. Then we have South and West Texas with lots of miles to cover if you want to bird hunt. Most use garmin collars and UTVs to for this type of hunting.
I think the person your having your debate with has found her niche in the breed. Nothing wrong with that. I'm sure it suites her well, just as someone running field trails has found theirs.

On a side note.
I'm the one that keeps the dogs in shape and does most of their training. My husband joined me on a run with the dogs last month. Lucy our youngest V tears up the ground. Our conversations would go like this.
Him- I don't see Lucy.
Me- She's fine, you'll catch sight of her.
Him- Should we call her back?
Me- Maybe a little later.
Time would pass and you would see her check in at a distance, then go about hunting. After sometime I would call the dogs in for a drink. The other two would be there quicker than Lucy. It would make since because she is farther out.
Him- I still don't see her. Do you think you should nick her? Should we split up and look?
Me- No. She knows where we are, give her enough time to come in.

About that time you would catch sight of her in the distance making a beeline straight for us. I think I need to run her with a garmin to ease his mind on days he tags along.


----------



## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

I went to many. many field trials in my youth. Good family friends ran their dogs in field trials. But there were no Vizslas involved; there were Coonhounds -- Black and Tan, and Bluetick. The winners won "First Tree", "Second Tree", etc., and won trophies and cash prizes. Our friends had a special room in their home just to display all of their trophies. I remember loving one of their Bluetick Coonhounds in particular. His name was Mortgage Lifter. Later on in life, I was privileged to own my own Bluetick Coonhound, named Elly Mae. ;D

p.s. I'm not really sure if I understand what an "All Age Dog" is. Does that refer to an entry category?


----------



## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

An "All Age" dog is great... in the right hands. The issue (IMO) is when people who want only companions end up with them and then believe their dog is just out-of-control. There is a place for the short range & the All Age - it is the breeder's responsibility to make sure they are in a suitable home.

An All Age dog in the hands of someone who wants a companion Vizsla is like giving someone a race horse who really wanted a pony... lol.

Oh, & thank God only 1% are the All Age type because I doubt most of us have the desire or the energy to handle one.


----------



## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

threefsh said:


> An "All Age" dog is great... in the right hands. The issue (IMO) is when people who want only companions end up with them and then believe their dog is just out-of-control. There is a place for the short range & the All Age - it is the breeder's responsibility to make sure they are in a suitable home.
> 
> An All Age dog in the hands of someone who wants a companion Vizsla is like giving someone a race horse who really wanted a pony... lol.
> 
> Oh, & thank God only 1% are the All Age type because I doubt most of us have the desire or the energy to handle one.


I would love to see the percentage go up.
Anyone not doing their research on breed and bloodlines is going to run into problems.
Next, just because they are rockets outside does not mean they are hard to control in the house.
Like you, I wouldn't like seeing them go to non hunting homes. That would be a waste of talent.


----------



## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

But specifically, will someone please define an "All Age Dog" for me? Thanks!  (Just trying to learn more.)


----------



## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

The V - 1000yrs of breeding for a perfect V ? - No - it was for a V that suited the owners style of hunting and a companion dog at the end of the day - that is why there is such diversity in the breed - to lose any positive trait in the breed will be a loss to all of us - Hunt large or hunt close - it has always been what the owner was looking for - so know the breed - know the breeder - know the pedigree - and hope you have some of that 1% in your pup - idle paws = a idle mind - keep them running!


----------



## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

mswhipple said:


> But specifically, will someone please define an "All Age Dog" for me? Thanks!  (Just trying to learn more.)


Found a couple of videos to help show the diffence.
First AA dogs. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9FukGHrhm0&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Second. Bird dog challenge.
Close hunting NOT AA dogs. Most birds in the fastest time wins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NH-Yi_TLdc&feature=related


----------



## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

for mswhipple:



> ALL-AGE AND LIMITED ALL-AGE STAKES. An All-Age Dog must give a finished performance and must be under reasonable control of its handler. It must show a keen desire to hunt, must have a bold and attractive style of running, and *must show independence in hunting.* *It must range well out in a forward moving pattern, seeking the most promising objectives, so as to locate any game on the course.* Excessive line-casting and avoiding cover must be penalized. *The dog must respond to handling but must demonstrate its independent judgment in hunting the course, and should not look to its handler for directions as to where to go.* The dog must find game, must point staunchly, and must be steady to wing and shot. Intelligent use of the wind and terrain in locating game, accurate nose, and style and intensity on point, are essential.
> 
> A dog that does not point cannot be placed. A dog should not be called back to point after the running of its brace except under the most extreme and unusual circumstances.
> 
> At least 30 minutes shall be allowed for each heat.


----------



## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Intellectual Property removed by Author.


----------



## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Willow ? as a breeder why did you pick the V 2 become a breeder of - as a trainer of all pointers - you must love living with the V - after 45yrs + with V's in my home I know my answers - maybe this ? should be under hunting or trialing - but for those that may never put the PUP in the feild I know your answers will enlighten them - Hunt well and Hunt often !


----------



## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

Thanks, TexasRed, redbirddog, and WillowyndRanch, for the videos and information! I think I am getting the picture now.

Can you imagine, back in the olden days when there wasn't a grocery store on every corner, what a valuable asset a good hunting dog would be?? Your family would not go hungry at dinner time! Yes, a good hunting dog has all my respect... and the beauty of it is that they love what they're doing!

I had a Great Uncle who owned English Pointers, and remember eating a variety of game birds for dinner at their house. His wife (my Great Aunt Edith) was an accomplished cook, too.


----------



## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Intellectual Property removed by Author.


----------



## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Ken thank you for the reply - The heart is a lonely hunter and V's have always filled mine in the field and at home - but under dog my AZZ - LOL - after 45yrs in the field with a V catch us if you can - never happens ! Nice to know they are part of your family because it should NEVER be any other way ! KeePUP the good work !


----------



## MagicandNucky (May 14, 2012)

Hey willowynd, this is Josh. I just decided i might as well create a profile here if I am going to be lurking and spying on all your posts. This matter regarding an all age dog is one that I too have trouble wrapping my head around. With your help I am coming to grasps with the intentions and history of trailing, more especially HORSE BACK TRIALS. I am a foot hunter. I just seem incapable of understanding why some one would want a dog to range so far. Why would a dog with high drive and short range be any less desirable in a breeding program than a dog with comparable drive and a half mile range?


----------

