# Right time to Spey



## Bintcliffe (Jan 4, 2015)

Hi everyone, we have a wonderful little lady Vizsla who is 5 mths old and although we love her dearly I don't want to breed her. I have heard that Vizslas are slower maturing emotionally than many dogs and wondered what other Vizsla owners have done about spent. Vets seem to have varied opinions some saying she should have a season first and other that it's best before. One of my concerns is that if we try to keep her on the lead thought the first season it will be impossible to give her the exercise she needs so much. Any words of wisdom?


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

I'd wait till she was at least 18 months old when she's finished growing. I waited till my girl was 2 years old before I had her spayed.


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

Dharma was 18 months old and not had a heat yet. The vet wanted it done at 6 months. The breeder wanted to see her mature or have a heat first and then spay. We just went through the spay procedure in December. Heats can also be very unpredictable for the first few cycles too from what I have read on the forum. Honestly toughing it out might be best.


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## charl0111 (Oct 2, 2013)

We had Rubi done at 17 months, she had 2 seasons before we decided to get her done.


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## V-Diddy (Jan 27, 2015)

Before you spay do some research, and sorry if I rant but this was a major point of contention in my home.

I have a male, Pre, who I decided will not get neutered. The main reason is that there seems to be a lot of evidence linked to increased cancer, brittle bones (if done to early), and reduced muscle (which can lead to hip dysplasia) in spayed/neutered dogs along with some old "facts" that just aren't true. 

My wife wanted him neutered to keep him from humping people and other animals. When my mini female dachshund tried to mount him on day one when we brought him home I asked my wife how getting Pre fixed was supposed to stop an action that was being performed by a fixed, female animal. After a few days neither dog tried that on the other because I would not tolerate it and they stopped.

My dad said to get him fixed because it would "calm him down." I bought a V because they are NOT calm. I want him to hunt with me, do distance training with my high school XC runner, do a slower pace for marathon training for my wife, and generally be that awesome do anything dog. Why buy a V if you want them to be "calm?" Besides, "whoa," "down," as well as "sit," "stay," and "come/here" if well trained defy what people think of as too excitable or too energetic. This is a training issue.

My mom said that he will get along better with other male dogs if he is neutered...really? I've seen two neutered beagles nearly kill one another the first time they met. That is all about socialization and once again...obedience. 

My concern is him running off after a girl in heat even though he is trained to sit, stay and whoa...but if he does that then it is MY failure as a trainer that caused it.

The local community's "fact" is that I am going to start a puppy mill in my backyard because I won't get him "snipped." I am starting a puppy mill, nor would I. The thought disgusts me, but neither am I going to increase my best friend's chance of cancer by 3x simply to put everyone else's mind at ease. 

My responsibility in this is to care for, control, and TRAIN my buddy. If I do those things then the whole "intact" argument goes out the window where it belongs. I am tired of being assigned a "responsibility" because other people are irresponsible, or worse. Even more, the current public fear is akin to the ridiculousness of Pre inseminating every non-spayed female dog within a ten mile range just by his masculinity. Doors, walls and windows make the best type of contraceptive! 

I owned an old red bone coonhound as a teenager. He had one litter of pups with the approval of the original breeder and aside from nearly breaking my nose while playing at 6 months of age (redbone's have hard heads!!!) he never humped, exhibited uncontrolled energy, aggression, or contributed to a puppy mill. I, on the other hand, exhibited nearly all of these traits at that point in my life. I am glad my parents didn't get me nuetered!!!

I do understand owners that cannot cope with the female heat cycle based on the mess. My Henna was bad about bleeding (which is not always typical). But, knowing what I know now I would not have had Henna (my mini) spayed. Her weight did increase when fed the same amount and type of food and we had to cut back but it is the possibility of other health issues that now concerns me. If there is any doubt that I did the wrong thing with her I will take that to my grave.

It just frustrates me that the norm is to neuter a dog on purchase. Why? The human race has more homeless children than dogs in the pound (just a guess) and we are not pressuring parents of lower conformation to fix their children before 10 (although maybe we should). 

Just be responsible in the training, control, and selling of these fine and majestic animals and do whatever is best for their health in the long term so you can enjoy them for many years to come. But most of all, focus on the care and training of your OWN dog. 

When I come home to find that Pre has let some harlot female V enter my house in order to besmirch his saintly purity then I will rush right out to the Vet and have him fixed. Until then, I am not about to trust a group of salesmen who pander Science Diet dog food, and until recently had no long term studies on the effects of pre-pubescent spay/neuter issues with dogs, cut on my buddy's man-jewels. 

Seriously, it is important enough to say this again, many of them (Vets) are trying to sell you Science Diet for your dog and try to convince you that a pay-per-service socially mandatory (biology altering) procedure is in the best interest of your animal. A procedure that is designed to keep YOU from making a mistake. 

A piece of your dog for a piece of your mind. 

Well, for Pre it is not...going...to happen.


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## MeandMy3 (Feb 27, 2013)

Well said, V-Diddy.

We have a 4 1/2 year-old female lab who we got fixed at 6 months. There were quite a few genetic issues with her litter that came out after we brought her home. (funny how that works) Anyway, she is the crabby one out of the pack and she is also the one who humps the most. We have a 10 1/2 month old male lab that just learned how to hump. I think she taught him.


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## organicthoughts (Oct 9, 2012)

Great post V-Diddy.

There certainly is a lack of true knowledge out there, even within the animal protection industry.

I have a friend, thankfully with an open mind, who works for the SPCA in Canada. She has told me that in fact the dog overpopulation problem in Canada, is no longer an issue. Shelters here are actually turning away people because they don't have dogs to adopt out. Now, the SPCA is considering breeding dogs of their own.... They are planning to select dogs who have been turned into them, but happen to have stable temperaments, as breeding dogs. I am not sure if they even plan to do hip, elbow, eye checks. They are focusing on temperaments and plan to breed mutts in order to meet the demand.

How insane is that!!!!!!! They bash dog breeding and purebred breeders, but are now planning to breed dogs whom they have no history of to meet some sort of sick demand....

I have an intact male, we are around bitches in and out of heat on a regular basis. Never have I had any sort of trouble or any unplanned mating. If you are even remotely close to being a responsible person, you'll never have problems with your animals being intact.

The public perception is messed up. Thanks Bob Barker!


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## freebird (Feb 28, 2015)

V-Diddy,

I'm so glad you said this.. this is a way I've felt for a long time. Unfortunately, you're right on the money with way society feels, and I usually encounter opposition to my ideas. If you're a RESPONSIBLE pet owner, then it's just unnecessary (in most cases), excluding health problems. What if we did this to a human.. we wouldn't think of it. There's no reason to drastically alter a perfectly healthy body like that. Doing this to prepubescent of even young adult humans would never cross our minds. The thought of that being a standard expectation is disturbing, at the very least (despite the fact that so many orphaned children exist). We would NEVER do this to our children.. but we would do it to our dogs. This fact bothers me deeply.. I understand that many, many people are great, loving owners, and I don't condemn them for choosing to spay or neuter, but I DO condemn the unanimous attitude set forth by most every member of our society, dissuading us from any other idea of what is right. What bothers me most is how from day one, it is just _expected_ .


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## miru (Sep 9, 2014)

Thank you V-Diddy


I agree that it has become a "socially correct attitude".In Suisse you are not aloud to touch the ears or the tail(you can't even import a dog that had his tail cut) but you are almost forced by social pressure to cut their testicles.
How hypocrite and insane is that!!
Leo will stay intact and get well trained

Miru


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## RugersParents (Jul 16, 2013)

Awesome post V-Diddy, I have an almost 2 yr old V who isn't neutered and the reason being practically everything you said, the cancer thing is what scared me because I lost a dog to cancer.


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