# Help me pick a kibble for a new puppy



## Zacj2 (Dec 30, 2012)

We are picking up our male puppy next week. I have developed analysis paralysis when it comes to puppy foods. The breeder is feeding Iams puppy, but I want to move up to a more premium kibble. He will be our only pet. Price is a factor, but quality is also, just looking for the best food for the money.

What would you transition a new puppy to and why? And do I need to stick with a puppy formula, or will an all life stages food with high protein and fat be just as beneficial?

Thanks in advance for the help!
(I will post in puppies, and diet forums)


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## maplevizsla (Oct 26, 2012)

* I just posted this for another member* 
Addition: Many breeders are opting to now skip puppy food and feed adult only. Talk with your breeder.

I have fed a variety of kibble brands over the past 14 years. I have also fed raw (barf) diet for 4+ years at one time.
Hunter my first Vizsla, was on Pro Plan Puppy and Pedigree Puppy - yuck! I did not like it at all, big stinky stools and dull coat causing scratching. She was switched to raw, and then Evo (meat supply issue so we went kibble), and then Acana Prairie Harvest.
Wager was raised on Pro Plan from my knowledge before she came to us and was fed raw, then Evo and Acana Fish.
Brandy was raised as a puppy on raw, but developed severe allergies , so after 2.5yrs on raw we switched her to various other kibble brands for allergies and none worked. She could only eat duck, lamb or rabbit (none of which raw I could afford) so I found California Natural and she has been on it for 5 years now, I love the adult formula.
Titan was raised on Acana from the breeder, but since I liked the CN that Brandy was on I thought the puppy formula would be good too. CNow at 6 months old now I am not happy with it, he seems skinny and small. So after much discussion with other Vizsla breeders, I am switching and feeding him Acana (which is what his breeder feeds her Vizslas and what many other breeders I know feed). 

I have tried Solid Gold, Wellness and especially Natural Balance made my dogs sick (Brandy had vomiting and diarrhea for the NB). I tried Nutro and Canidae too once, it as okay but big stinky poops. Feeding raw my dogs were the healthiest dogs ever, and if I had a choice I would be feeding a raw diet (lack of suppliers and time are why I do not).


Feeding:
I would not free feed.
Scheduled feedings allow for easier housebreaking chances since you know if he ate at breakfast, he will have to poop at lunch, if he ate at lunch he will have to poop at dinnertime, if he ate at dinnertime then before bedtime he will have to poop. Yes- - puppies poop alot in the first few weeks.

Scheduled feedings also ensure he is getting enough, or if he is rolly-polly (NOT good for puppies growing joints) you can control the portions and adjust accordingly.

Scheduled feedings ensure that your dog did not just eat before you got home for work and you decide to exercise him - which can cause bloat and your dog to die. Always allow for at least 1 hour before and after exercise before feeding your dog.

Lastly, scheduled feedings are the perfect opportunity to fit in training exercises for a few minutes, you can teach your puppy to sit-wait for his food. He must wait until you say "Okay". You can do Down-Wait too. And "Watch me" where he has to look up and pay attention to your face before releasing him to eat.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Stick with your breeder suggested brand and switch very slowly over to whatever you feel comfortable with. That is if you do not like the breeder's suggestion. 

Like suggested by maplev, do not free feed but feed enough. Feeding time is great for training as puppies are extremely food motivated.


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## BaxtersMum (Oct 6, 2012)

Hi

I've tried several things with Baxter as since getting him at 8 weeks he hasn't had regular firm poos. I got advice from hot mischief to try weaning him off kibble as its known to contain fillers and ash that irritate the gut and since feeding him wet food only (nature diet) for over a week now he has had firm poos since. 

I'm not sure if there would be another kibble to try but to be honest we have wasted so much money already I wasn't keen on buying another pack, we already have one almost full pack we won't use now!

We are also trying to find a distributor for raw food natural instinct the hot mischief uses to try that as you can buy that in smaller quantities and will see how he is on that.

The only thing I'm worried about is that Baxter has been sick, only bile like, twice now and wondering if its the wet food or the pigs ears he had eaten lately. The last two he has had have really smelled foul. He also ate a bit of raw chicken last night while I was cooking, dropped some on the floor. The second sick was this morning??


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

*BaxtersMum,*

*PLEASE do not* feed Baxter pigs ears, they are can be dangerous. Rawhide chews and pigs ears do not disolve, so if they swallow a large lump of either of these so called treats they can choke on them. I know at least one member of this forum lost their dog as a result of it choking on a lump of rawhide chew.

The other problem with these treats is where they are sourced from, usually china and the chemicals they use to dry them with - so they are really not a healthy treat.

Try bully sticks - here is a link to some on ebay that are good value, are natural and will dissolve if he swallows a chunk.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dried-Bul...5?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs&hash=item3f204d3ccb

Re Baxter being sick - I doubt very much that that is caused by the wet food. Has he chewed any sticks from outside? Boris willl chew and eat sticks and is later sick and in the bile are all these little bits of stick which I think irrate his tummy. See if it stops if you stop giving him the pigs ears, process of illimination.


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## Darcy1311 (May 27, 2012)

hotmischief said:


> *BaxtersMum,*
> 
> *PLEASE do not* feed Baxter pigs ears, they are can be dangerous. Rawhide chews and pigs ears do not disolve, so if they swallow a large lump of either of these so called treats they can choke on them. I know at least one member of this forum lost their dog as a result of it choking on a lump of rawhide chew.
> 
> ...


 Great advice....I had a Weimaraner that ate pigs ears and almost died from gastric torsion,we were very lucky to catch it in time but he still needer an operation to untwist his tummy and get it stiched to his chest wall....please avoid pigs ears at all costs...Darcy gets stag antler,they are far safer......


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## BaxtersMum (Oct 6, 2012)

Thanks for advice. what else as well as bulky sticks can you give?

How did you spot the gastric torsion? Glad he was ok in the end!


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## redrover (Mar 17, 2011)

*BaxtersMum*: If he was vomiting up bile in the morning, particularly just before being fed, that's not entirely abnormal for dog, particularly the very young or very old. Jasper would often do that because he got too hungry. My vet said that dogs produce bile in anticipation of a meal, and sometimes this gets into the stomach. This can cause the dog to vomit a small amount of bile. This usually happens when a dog's stomach has been empty for a little too long. Rather than change his feeding schedule, the vet had me supplement with a little treat right before bed--a couple spoonfuls of cottage cheese or plain yogurt. That really helped, and he stopped having problems around 8 or 9 months.

Note that this wasn't every day--maybe once a week? 

Of course, you know Baxter better than I do, so it could also be something else. As others mentioned, possibly something he ate outside. Sticks, dirt, any new food, a particularly rich dog treat, etc...all can cause some upset tummies!

As for chew toys, I like bully sticks, elk/deer antlers, the occasional Nylabone, and raw bones. The only one of those I let him have without supervision in the crate while I am gone is the elk antler. For all other chew toys, I must be present in the house and where I can hear him chewing it. My vet friend likes cow hooves, but be forewarned--they stink to high heaven. Worse than bully sticks, IMO.


*Zacj2*: For kibble, I feed Acana Pacifica, though they offer many protein sources (fish, chicken, duck, lamb, bison, etc.). That is an all life-stages formula, and Jasper has been on it since he was 6 months old. He grew steadily on it and maintains a very healthy weight. I have no problems with it. I do believe it's made by the same company as Orijen, but it has a slightly lower protein percentage, which I find perfectly adequate for my dog's active, but not mega-active lifestyle (obviously it's all relative--my dog's active is my roommate's dog's extra-crazy-mega-not-in-a-million-years-active). At my local pet food outlet, I pay about $64 (pre-tax) for a 30lb bag, and a bag of that size lasts me 5 to 6 weeks, depending on how picky he's being.

If it were me, I might wait a bit to begin the switch. Your pup will be going through a major life change, going to a new home without mom or brothers or sisters. This might result in picky eating or some intestinal upset at first. You'll also be potty training, and even with a slow switch, you could get diarrhea. That will most definitely make crate and potty training more difficult.


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

*
Gastric Torsion/ Bloat*

*BaxstersMum*

Her is a post on symptoms of gastric torsion/bloat that I posted last year. I have copied this article from The Great Dane Adoption Society's website ( so go can google the original if you like).

A very interesting point that has recently come to light in research into GT/Bloat in Danes in a study done in the UK and the USA - that bloat is very much more prevelant in the breed in the US than in the UK, one possibility they are now considering is GM cereals, as they are banned in the UK. I would think this will be impossible to prove one way or the other!


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

*Baxstermum* - to answer your question on treats to keep him busy. Fill a small kong with your wet feed and freeze it and then you can give him that, which will keep him very busy licking it out. Raw Marrow bones, necks, chicken wings, etc If you have a local butcher go visit him, they will often give you bones for a donation to charity. NEVER cook the bones, as they will splinter. 

Natural Instinct do a whole load of raw bones, so if you can find a supplier that's your answer.

I am unable to give Boris these due to his allergies, but I have just found air dried Vension bones and these keep him busy for days, excellent.

Also, if you watch Dragon Den, Deborah Medan invested in a company making very up market dog treats - Billy & Margot - they do doggie ice cream tubs which are basically frozen fruit and vegetables and both my boys love them. I open a tub let them have five minutes licking, top back on and back in the freezer.

Hope that helps. Sure the others will come up with lots of safe ideas as well.


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## BaxtersMum (Oct 6, 2012)

Thanks again

We have given up with Kong's as Baxter has no interest in them at all. Are the bully sticks smelly? Just found a pack of 8x5" for £7.96 but it doesn't say if they are odour free.


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## Darcy1311 (May 27, 2012)

hotmischief said:


> *
> Gastric Torsion/ Bloat*
> 
> *BaxstersMum*
> ...


.....................In the Uk the most common dog to get gastric bloat is the Great Dane followed by the Weimaraner....it's a dreadful thing for a dog to get as I had the misfortune to watch my Weimaraner go through it...luckily I was at home and was able to get him straight to my vet,if I had been at work he would have been dead..it happens that quick,also the chances of dying post operation are also very high as the system has been poisoned.....now I have a Vizsla and I never feed pigs ears and I always wait for at least 1 hour before feeding after she has hed strenoius exercise...sorry it's a morbid topic but it is such an important issue and one always worthy of bringing up...


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## lyra (Nov 2, 2012)

I'm interested in giving my 4 month old bones but have no idea what to ask my butcher for. Should it be from any particular animal? Long bones, joints etc? Are there any risks? We once gave her a lamb chop bone which she basically destroyed and completely ate which I suspect was probably not a good thing to do so I'm trying to be not so stupid now!


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## Darcy1311 (May 27, 2012)

Lyra said:


> I'm interested in giving my 4 month old bones but have no idea what to ask my butcher for. Should it be from any particular animal? Long bones, joints etc? Are there any risks? We once gave her a lamb chop bone which she basically destroyed and completely ate which I suspect was probably not a good thing to do so I'm trying to be not so stupid now!


.................Please, before thinking about giving your dog lamb bones etc please take time to read what I wrote about bloat in this thread....or have I just wasted my time in writing on this forum...


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## lyra (Nov 2, 2012)

*Re: Re: Help me pick a kibble for a new puppy*



Darcy1311 said:


> .................Please, before thinking about giving your dog lamb bones etc please take time to read what I wrote about bloat in this thread....or have I just wasted my time in writing on this forum...


I did say that after the event I thought it probably wasn't a good thing to do. My post was asking for suggestions of what was safe to feed my dog


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## oliveJosh12 (Sep 10, 2012)

Baxtersmum - Bully Sticks smell awful! very strong smell. Olive loves them though.

Zacj2
I feed Olive Natures diet (wet) she gets through a pack a day and also a scatter of enukanuba which is kibble.
She has a shiny coat and is a perfect weight for her age.
we took her to the vets to be micro chipped a week ago and the vet said we couldnt have her looking anymore healthy if we tried - she was very pleased with her.
She loves her food as well and eats it within seconds.

hope that helps


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

OliveJosh - you need to buy some of the bully sticks from the ebay site - not smelly at all, or rather not like the very smelly ones your talking about. 

I had to keep the very smelly once outside in the garage, couldn't bear the smell, but the ebay ones are great.


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## oliveJosh12 (Sep 10, 2012)

thanks hotmischeif. She loves them so I put up with the smell but will look on ebay.
is there a particular person you buy them from? you cant always trust everyone.


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

Lyra said:


> I'm interested in giving my 4 month old bones but have no idea what to ask my butcher for. Should it be from any particular animal? Long bones, joints etc? Are there any risks? We once gave her a lamb chop bone which she basically destroyed and completely ate which I suspect was probably not a good thing to do so I'm trying to be not so stupid now!


I would go with beef marrow bones. My neighbour is a butcher so I used to get these for free all the time for my boy until we found out he has a beef allergy 

Now we give him venison shin.


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## BaxtersMum (Oct 6, 2012)

Wow Baxter must be a pig as we are having to give him 3 packs a day and he is still skinny! He has one whole pack for each meal. Hoping he will only need 2 soon so cost goes down.


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## redrover (Mar 17, 2011)

Lyra said:


> I'm interested in giving my 4 month old bones but have no idea what to ask my butcher for. Should it be from any particular animal? Long bones, joints etc? Are there any risks? We once gave her a lamb chop bone which she basically destroyed and completely ate which I suspect was probably not a good thing to do so I'm trying to be not so stupid now!


Raw beef marrow or beef knuckle (joints) is what my trainer and vet suggested to me. Marrow bones are fun and yummy, knuckle bones help clean the teeth. I give them to him frozen and let him gnaw for about an hour or two, then back in the freezer if they're not clean. Once he's cleaned them, I keep them around and will occasionally stuff them with things like wet food and then refreeze for a treat.

Like anything, bones come with their own list of precautions. This is not as much an issue with raw bones, but it is with those cooked/sterilized ones--they can splinter or crack, and your dog might try and swallow a piece she breaks off. This can cause a blockage or a perforation or even an airway obstruction. Marrow bones are frequently from the femur, a large, weight-bearing bone, and a dog could possible crack a tooth on it. Marrow is very rich, and may give your dog diarrhea. Dogs may grow possessive over raw bones, so keep that in mind around other dogs, and be aware of that fact when you try to take away the bone (and work on training your dog not to resource guard). Again, the risks are all compounded when the bone is cooked--raw bones are much safer.

All that said...I find raw bones to be an excellent recreational chew for my dog. Just like any other chew toy you give your dog, just don't be negligent about it. Jasper gets bones only if I'm in the same room as him (or as long as he stays nearby, if we're outside), so that I can listen and observe him chew it. Check over the bones you get before you give them to your dog, so you can see if a particular bone fragment might splinter off, etc. Then just watch for it as your dog cleans the bone. We all take risks with our dogs, just different ones. It is up to each individual to determine which things have benefits that outweigh the risks for their own individual dog/family/lifestyle.

You can get the bones from the butcher. They'll often cut them to size if you ask. They might already have marrow bones packaged to sell as soup bones. I wouldn't get the marrow bones any smaller than 2" long by 2" in diameter. I know other folks feed their dogs things like raw turkey necks, which have very soft bones in them, but I have no personal experience with that.


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

I do the raw turkey necks.! Great snack. Also can get air dried turkey necks on zooplus.co.uk


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

Olivejosh - go to page 1 of this thread and you will find the link for the ebay bully sticks - I put them in a post for BaxstersMum.

They are also quite reasonably priced, and no need for you to suffer from the smell.


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

*born36* - where do you get the vension skin from - that is one of the things I can feed Boris, but have only found air dried vension bones and they were mega expensive and small??.


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

hotmischief said:


> *born36* - where do you get the vension skin from - that is one of the things I can feed Boris, but have only found air dried vension bones and they were mega expensive and small??.


I get shin bones from my butcher. There is also a good site for venison products called venison for pets

http://www.venisonforpets.co.uk/ 

Somewhat expensive but good quality and they do the venison rawhide.


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