# Calling your dog back



## rebecca (Aug 20, 2011)

I have been working on the call back with my 18 week puppy since I got him, but today left me feeling disappointed in my training.

He's very good when I call him outside, he'll come flying back and I always, always call him back, just for no reason and give him a nice tasty treat.

Well today, I let him off lead but didn't see the other dog who was on lead. Well he bolted over to the other dog and I was calling him back but he just took no notice, he just wanted to play with the other dog, thankfully a friendly dog. But the owner made a sarcastic comment about him not listening and I feel like a total bad dog owner. :-[

Any tips on working the call back when there's other dogs involved?


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## Carpowell (May 8, 2011)

Haha, this makes me laugh. I've been working on recall with our 12 month old V, Brody since we got him . If there are no other dogs and I have a treat, no prob. If there is another dog in the area, forget me! He knows I'll be there when he is done socializing. He thinks everyone thinks he is as wonderful as I do. Of course he is. You have to have something that is more important than that other dog. I wouldn't and don't let me dog off leash unless it's a safe place (ie, no streets, unpredictable dogs...) keep working with him. I find if I act excited and start walking or running in the other direction that helps. Also at dog parks, call him away from playing with other dogs and give him the best treat you have and lots of it. He'll get there. He's young still. Be consistent.


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

rebecca said:


> But the owner made a sarcastic comment about him not listening and I feel like a total bad dog owner. :-[
> 
> Any tips on working the call back when there's other dogs involved?


Don't let someone get you down for normal pup behaviour. At best, they all take 1 step forward and 2 back throughout training.
It sounds like you've got a good start to training recall, and it is important to continue just as you are. 

One important tip is even if he doesn't come back, don't punish him for it. For training recall you have to become the best thing in the world. Party central! If "come" sometimes means he's in trouble, he may think twice about following the command. If "come" _always_ means he gets a treat and praise from his boss, he will more than likely come back every time, regardless of the distraction. 
No dog is perfect, but **** good is a realistic hope. 

Try to say your command once and once only. If he doesn't come back, turn and walk in the other direction until he does. I used to hide behind a tree if Mischa didn't come right away, then give her a treat for finding me. Her recall is quite good now.


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## rebecca (Aug 20, 2011)

[/quote]

I used to hide behind a tree if Mischa didn't come right away, then give her a treat for finding me. Her recall is quite good now. 


[/quote]

Hehe, I did that not long after the incident! I felt I got my revenge  Oh yes, most definitely have never punished him for coming, even if it does take him longer.

Do you think I should be letting my pup off lead when his recall isn't 100% perfect, it seems such a shame though, as they love to run and, he can set the pace and stop when he wants.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

This is what I learned:
Never call the dog in unless you really mean it and have a sure way of reinforcing it. 
In other words the moment you issue the command the dog has 2 seconds to perform. If he doesn't perform a correction (not a beating) must follow. If you don't follow through the command will lose value and the dog (as smart as it is) will start testing other commands too.

Google Dr. Ian Dunbar for details.

Anyhow, our Sam is 7.5 months old and I am proud to say I never taught him anything. 
Or did I? We just live together, walk, bike, eat, walk more, work, play, eat, sleep, run, play, rest, eat....
So, I never had to reinforce the "come here" command because I never expect him to come to me any time there is a stronger stimulus out there. If I need him, I go to him.

Of course, I will work on these commands under distractions but I'm in no hurry.


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## Bellababy (Mar 31, 2010)

This is probably the wrong way but....because my dog is food driven, and I always let her off the lead from the very beginning, I always make sure I have a bag of treats in my pocket. What I did was whistle and shout her name and get her back that way, and not every time, but nearly every time I would give her a treat. Then when she started taking off wanting to play with other dogs and refusing to listen, I used to shout "come and get a biscuit" and take the bag of biscuits out and rattle and rustle them noisily, and it has always got her attention and brought her back to me, every single time, and she is 2 now. If I just shout and whistle, 98% of the time she will come back anyway, but if I having trouble getting her attention I resort to the "come and get a biscuit" routine, and she comes right back.
I do know some people will disagree with this method but it worked for me, and I am confident my dog is safe because she will always come back to me.


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## rebecca (Aug 20, 2011)

datacan said:


> If he doesn't perform a correction (not a beating) must follow. If you don't follow through the command will lose value and the dog (as smart as it is) will start testing other commands too.


What sort of correction would you suggest?


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/01/simon-vizsla-learning-about-training.html

rebecca,
you have got quite a few good suggestions. The post is about training collars. Your 18 week old is much too young to do this. It is still a baby so play games and make life with you just so much fun that you are the best option.

I have a whistle on a cord I wear every time we walk off-leash. We use only three commands.

To establish control, the dogs must wait at the tailgate of the Jeep as I put on the lead. They never get to jump out of the Jeep without a lead. We walk a few hundred feet before I place them both in a "stay" position and then wait 30 seconds before I toot the whistle one time. They take off like rockets. Happy as can be. During the walk, two toots means "change directions" and follow where I am going. One toot while off leash with my arms out means "come right back to me." When we are done with the walk, I bring out the leads and they have to come next to me stand to be hooked up. We walk on-leash back to the Jeep. I open the tailgate, unhook Bailey's leash and tap him on the side and say "truck". Then I do this with Chloe. Always in the same sequence.

It is about consistency. Never give a command out of anger or distress. My wife will demand that I call the dogs back if they are off "bothering other dogs". I won't do it because they will not listen. I might have to go get them and put them on leash but I will not waste a good command when I know it will be ignored.

Try and not give commands that will not be able to be enforced (training collar is effective in this training). Vizslas are very smart dogs and can learn quickly when they can ignore you if you are not the most important part of their world. And I can guarantee you that at times you will not be.

Best of luck with your pup. You are doing all the right things.

RBD


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

Rebecca

At 18 weeks old, he's doing fine. if you're getting him backk at all off the leash, you're doing great.
If you'd like to use these opportunities for training, which they are ideal for, put your puppy on a check cord, long leash, maybe 30 feet long. 
When he takes off again, let him sort of get to the end of the checkcord by himself. At this point call him back, and when he doesn't come give him a really happy, positive, energetic come command followed by some some pressure on the check cord.
Don't yank on the cord, or constantly reprimand him. Just a nice little gentle pull.
The moment he he turns in your direction instantly let off any pressure and keep calling him back to you.
It will be a little bit like reeling in a fish. He may go out and back again, and kind of run sideways in an arc, but just keep up the nice gentle pressure and the happy voice.
The absolute key is too let off the pressure each time he focuses on you, and be very upbeat, happy and positive.
You are teaching two very basic lessons here;
Firstly,you are teaching them that you can enforce a command.
Second,and more important, you are conditioning him to see you as a safe haven and someone that he can trust.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

rebecca said:


> datacan said:
> 
> 
> > If he doesn't perform a correction (not a beating) must follow. If you don't follow through the command will lose value and the dog (as smart as it is) will start testing other commands too.
> ...



Just as Gunner wrote. 
BUT, My puppy is 7.5 months old but yours is 18 weeks old. I used to think mine was too young for any sort of correction, so I waited and time passed. This is how I never got around tooting a whistle or putting Sam on a check-cord (I bought one). How many people do you see with their dog on a 30 ft check-cord gently reeling in their dog with a big smile? None, unless they are professional dog trainers. 
How many do train their dog professionally? Most, at best read a few books (hopefully) and perform whatever they remember (most information is forgotten anyway).

I didn't want to get into any trouble because Vizslas are soft dogs so I waited until 6.5 months to put a prong small size collar on Sam. From previous experience I knew it would yield instant results. No more pulling, no jumping and the correction is quick but firm. No correction should be more than 1 or 2 seconds.
Around 16 weeks a dog's puppy license (according to Truid Ruggas (google it please) and Ian Dunbar) is revoked - if they live in a pack of dogs. And according to some pro trainers after 16 weeks it is OK to enforce most commands. But the holy grail of all commands is come when called under any distraction.
[url]www.thecheckcord.com[/url]


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

datacan

The check cord unfortunately seems to be viewed as "Old School". It really shouldn't be though. For a couple of dollars you will have probably the most effective training aid at your disposal. Maybe that's why it fell out of favor. It was too cheap,and no one could sell e-Collars. 
The check cord gives me instant feedback on my end that I'm just not good enough to figure out how to get with an e-Collar. I like the check cord.

All of my dogs have been on check cords as soon as they accept the leash. They are literally in the woods and rooting about at 9-10 weeks old with a length of cotton strapping tied to them, and me running after them, just letting them explore safely.


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

From my experience with Sophie, if she sees another dog I don't want her to run up to right away, I put her in "stay" while she's still observing the dog. She stays, waits until I give her a "go" command. If I miss those few "observing" seconds and she sees the dog before I do, she takes off. I don't call her back because like *redbirddog* said earlier, I don't want to waste a good command. Once she has said hi and ran a few laps with the other dog, usually I have no problem recalling her and continuing with the walk. But then there are those days when she has earmuffs on, and I better talk to a rock than my V.  In any case, recall is an ongoing training (at least for me). Once you have decided on your commands, stick to them and repeat, repeat, repeat. 18 week old puppy has plenty of time to learn this. You are not a bad dog owner at all, you have a puppy who is being a puppy. Don't pay attention what others say!


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## Adelle25 (Sep 4, 2011)

Hello 

Some excellent advise on here, Copper is 18 weeks old and i do have the same problem. I love him off the leash and most of the time he comes back unless like your dog they is an other dog or person. Don't let people undermind yourself, i just shout "come close" stand still and rustle the treat bag but if he doesn't come back i just shout an apology to the person walking and say his still learning. 

We all have to start somewhere and i personal like him off the lead cuz like you say they play and have loads of fun. On roads he is always on a lead and sits when a car goes past. 

Good luck


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## rebecca (Aug 20, 2011)

Hello

Thank you for all the helpful responses and all very helpful suggestions. Feeling a bit more positive as training went well today, and no sarky comments! Not even from the dog!! 

My breeder did actually suggested to invest in a whistle, so, as of today I have started training him and it's proving to be very useful. The tips you've shared I have taken all on board!


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## denparkin (Aug 29, 2011)

A whistle really works, it's what I use when I have Brooklyn off leash in the woods. I think it works so well because there is no emotion behind the blowing of the whistle, unlike when you say their name with a "come" command.


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## rebecca (Aug 20, 2011)

Just to report back. Let my pup of lead to play with another dog but when the time came, I blew the whistle and he'd put his deaf ears on again! Stood there blowing the whistle and he was wayyy to happy playing and would not come, pretended to walk away but nope, didn't care. 10 mins in total. So he went straight back on a very short lead, right next to me,and straight back home. 

Think he knew he'd been naughty but is this the right way to go about it. I will continue to whistle train, hopefully positive results will arise sometime!


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> Think he knew he'd been naughty but is this the right way to go about it.


Only suggestion is to start whistle training in house where you have the most command, then in your yard, then on a check cord before trying it off-leash.

He needs to learn what the whistle toot means first before you need it. EVERY walk we take, I call my two dogs back to me at least once.

Rod a.k.a. redbirddog


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## rebecca (Aug 20, 2011)

The house is where I started training him and he does respond. Maybe I need a better treat?? Chicken maybe?? Is this just maybe his age playing part as well though?


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

Pumpkin responds very well to the whistle (14m), but I did not introduce it until she was crystal clear on the command "come." When I did introduce the whistle, I would give the command "come" followed immediately by 3 short blasts (everyone has their own method with the # of blasts meaning come or change direction). After the link between the whistle & command was established, we were able to just use the whistle. Pumpkin listens to the whistle better than voice with distractions (woods & birds ). My point is, IMO, your pup needs to be pretty solid on the command "come" before using a whistle; otherwise, it all becomes somewhat confusing & meaningless. Redbirddog, Gunnr, and Mischa have some good advice. Invest time (perhaps $ too) in a puppy obedience class, practice at home, and a checkcord. There's nothing dated about a checkcord. They are inexpensive and can be invaluable teaching tools. If you plan on doing any field work like hunting &/or tracking, you will see them everywhere. Good Luck!


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Check cord
suggestions from personal experience:

1. The 30 ft check cord is not the same thing as the flexi leash. The flexi has constant pull on the collar. Feedback is really faster with a check cord. 

2. Leather gloves are highly recommended if the soil is sandy and wet. My left thumb took a beating this morning. 

3. Younger dogs will pick up and eat more undesired stuff. This is the main reason I only used it only once. But upon reading Gunnr's earlier response I remembered I already had one. Sam is older and much more selective.


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

Your not kidding, datacan! Great mention on the gloves. I have forgotten them a time or 2. Trying to hang on to P"s checkcord with birds around is hard enough, but it is really bad with rope burn! Ouch


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## pippa31 (Aug 2, 2011)

I have also been working with my Pippa (she's 5 months) on coming when called (with higher distraction). To practice this, I have her on a check cord at a park and then invite some of my friends with their dogs. We get the dogs to play with one another, I let them play for a bit, then call her to me. If she comes right away she gets a bit of liverwurst (which she loves). I hold her collar, treat and then say, "Go Play" and let her go back to playing with the other dogs so that she knows that me calling her to come does not always signal 'the fun stopping' (sometimes it does, but I want her to learn that sometimes I am just calling her to come for a minute and then she can go back to what she was doing that she enjoyed). If she doesn't come, I tug on the check cord and then she will come. I show her the liverwurst, but don't give her any. We did this on Sunday for an hour. Then a couple of hours later, we practiced on the trails. Her recall is not at 100%, but she is getting SO MUCH BETTER with this practice. I plan to work on it again on Wednesday and then again on Friday and Sunday. I find every other day on this particular skill keeps her attention (which is hard to do!!).


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## KonasPop (Aug 9, 2011)

I did exactly what pippa31 did and it worked all the way up til the 7mo. period. Then with recall cemented, i reinforced with e-collar. I can say that shes's about 99% now @ 10mo. Even with other dogs or high distraction she will obey. The only time she struggles is approaching the other dogs - e.g. on the way to seeing another dog/human on trail she thinks hard about which she wants to do...we're workin on it. Might never be 100% but i really dont have any huge complaints with here progress so far.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

rebecca said:


> The house is where I started training him and he does respond. Maybe I need a better treat?? Chicken maybe?? Is this just maybe his age playing part as well though?


Rebecca

Most assuredly his age is a huge factor. As I said, he is still very young, and your expectations at this point in his life and development are maybe just a little too high. 

As Redbirddog suggested, it's back to the backyard for a little while. You need to establish the connection between the voice command, the whistle command and the check cord. You are "extending the leash".

Put your pup on the 30' checkcord and just sort of let him go for a few minutes. Then get ahold of the end of the cord,a nd then give him the command to "come" followed by the Whistle. Hopefully he doesn't obey.
At this point it's the Voice command, followed by the whistle command, and a gentle tug on the leash to get him moving in your direction. Keep this up for a few days and then begin to drop the Voice command and use just the whistle command, and enforce the command with the check cord.
Nothing changes when you take him out of the yard. Put the check cord on him, and leave it on him. When he hets distracted by another dog it's the same process. Voice command, followed by whistle command,. followed by gentle pressure on the check cord.
It is going to take him months to really steady out. He still needs to grow up quite a bit. Think of this as the intro, and expect to have him trailing a length of line behind him for quite awhile.
It won't take him long to associate the check cord, with your ability to control him,and in fact after a few months you can just leave a 6' length on him and he'll respond as if it's the 30' cord. He doesn't know how long it is, nor that you can't get ahold of him.
MY dogs are typically on the check cord for probably a year or more, and in fact during all of their " off leash" work they are trailing the check cord behind them in the wood. Typically they will blow me off and run like nut bags and get tangled up in the brush and trees with the checkcord. Then it's easy to walk up, untangle them. Put them at the heel for a little bit, and then repeat the process.
It's time consuming, but necessary.


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## Aimless1 (Sep 25, 2011)

I have always operated under the principal that a command is NEVER given unless you're in a position to enforce it. I also believe that a command is given only ONCE. I'm sure my neighbors have had a good chuckle at my expense as if I tell my dog to come in my fenced in back yard, and he ignores it, I'll immediately go out (in my underwear if need be) and correct him. Snow drifts, rain, night or day, doesn't matter. This happens maybe once a year, if that. 

It is always so tempting to move too fast off leash. When yard training I don't move off leash until I have 100% compliance to the come command. Not most of the time, not 95% of the time, but 100%. Then and only then do I move on. 

I'll begin with the dog about 5 yards away with a check cord and work on come until again I have 100% compliance. Then I'll extend 5 yards for each step until I reach the limit at which I wish the command to be used. 

The process is repeated off leash/off check cord starting over at 5 yards and moving out as we make progress. If I tell Quest to come, he comes. 

I do not use a "pinch" collar nor e-collar for this training. I want my dog to come because he wants to, not because I'm forcing him to. 

Yes, this process takes time. Yes, there are times I would like to tell the pup to come when off leash in the field, but I can't use the command as he is not ready. Using the command once with non compliance is taking 10 steps back in your training program.

So my message is to only give your command once, and only give it when you are 100% certain your V will comply. Otherwise you will have to go your V until he/she is ready.


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## rebecca (Aug 20, 2011)

Gunnr said:


> rebecca said:
> 
> 
> > The house is where I started training him and he does respond. Maybe I need a better treat?? Chicken maybe?? Is this just maybe his age playing part as well though?
> ...


Yes, I really must remember to lower my expectations, but every time he does something wrong I'm quickly thinking what have I done wrong during training. It's like he's going through the teenage stage now and he's only 18 weeks!

Thank you all for your advice, it's been trumendous help, I will most likely be posting some more questions regarding training  

...and I will definitely invest in the check cord.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

Rebecca

To be a little existential. Each time your dog does something "wrong" is the time you're moving in the right direction. 
It has nothing to do with "being wrong". It's just part of the process.
The only way your dog, and you also too, can learn and grow is through error, that's when correction takes place, and you can then begin to move forward.
Who really learns anything by doing something right the first time?  ;D


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