# E-collars with tone/vibe



## datacan (May 15, 2011)

I thought tone is handy communication feature that avoids stimulation. I guess I was wrong.

http://www.gundogsupply.com/dog-training-collars-6.html
"One down side to tone as a "warning" is the high number of products in the world today that beep and buzz. I do not like dogs to react when someone's cell phone goes off or they open a car door or the microwave finishes cooking.

The other down side to tone as a "warning," is when you work with multiple dogs. You give dog 1 a tone warning and dog 2 hears it. Now dog 2 thinks he has done something wrong and is about to get a correction and he has no idea why. This leads to paranoid dogs.

If you want a non-stimulation warning feature on your collar, I recommend that you look at vibration. It will not cause problems with other dogs and outside sources (telephone, pagers, cars, or microwave ovens) will not duplicate this feature.

You can also use vibration for silent commands."


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## deeco3307 (Jun 13, 2010)

We recently started using a tone collar, and while I see the point the author is making, the tone is designed specifically to be a sound that will negatively reinforce the behavior. Without researching, I would guess their was some work involved in determining the correct components of the sound that would correct behavior. The tones on various collars may be different, but the one we have doesn't sound like a microwave or car. Dogs obviously have a much more keen sense of hearing than we do, so I would think they can differentiate the 2.

We also haven't needed to use the tone as a warning, as the tone itself has been enough negative reinforcement to correct the behavior. Not once have we needed to progress to a shock.

Maybe our dog's reaction to other sounds would change if the shock were needed, but currently it is working well as is. I would guess vibration collars would work equally well if one were concerned about the sounds.

Just as a side note, the collar has worked amazing in deterring some behaviors we had spent a lot of time trying to correct with just positive reinforcement. I would certainly recommend these as a training device.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

I can only write that even though I have the vibe feature I have to reset the transmitter to use it. So far I only used tone and stimulation alone, never vibration.
I am afraid if I use the vibe I would have to recondition him all over again. Sam is 11 months old and I have been conditioning him to the e-collar for the past 2 months (leash pressue + stim). Only recently has he been wearing the e-collar alone without the check-cord as well.

Maybe I'll pass on the vibe feature for now. :-\


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

I've been doing a fair bit of research over the last few days, and datacan, I read that exact exerpt. I believe it was on the SportDog website that you linked.

It makes sense that they'd get conditioned to the tone as a warning and brace themselves for the ensuing shock. 

I plan on using the tone as a silent command such as sit or come, but that will come later as I'm more concerned with the proper introduction and correction for now. I'm glad I read about the warning thought. There is a lot to these collars that I had no idea about.
I thought they were just a simple "NO". The command training using the lowest setting until they respond is very interesting. I'm quite curious to see how it all pans out. I feel like this a very important tool, so I am learning as much as I can, and will be taking it very slowly. Mischa is going to teach _me_ how to train her.


Any tips that anyone has, I am all ears.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

I learned a lot from George Hickox especially "Traning Pointing Dogs" 
http://www.georgehickox.com/about_george_hickox_dvd.html
Scott Miller's "Training your Pointing Dog" 
http://www.gundogsupply.com/dvd-scott-miller.html
I got both at Bass Pro.

I can honestly say that what I learned about German Shepherds does not fully apply to the Vizsla I have. Most corrections to a GSD are like OK, whatever. Not so with the Vizsla. Mine can be stubborn to a point and if I don't recognize the limit he can shut down for hours. It is easier to pick up the next day and start over. 
That's why I'm afraid to try the vibe mode.


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## reddogfan (Jun 4, 2011)

I haven't used an ecollar to do a lot of training but it is my 'insurance policy' when we are hunting in the field. If Jasper momentarily forgets his training and begins to chase a deer or rabbit, I have a way to give him a quick reminder that refocuses his attention. 
we use the tone on his Innotek ecollar as a way to communicate and move very quietly through the fields we are hunting. The tone is very low and in fact, only he can hear it; if you're standing within two feet of him, it is not audible. The method we've worked out is this: if he hears a couple of quick tone beeps, he knows to turn and look at me and I can then give him a hand signal to redirect him to a particular objective in the field. If he hears one long continuous tone, he knows that means 'Come back and find me because I can't see you. ' It took us about 30 minutes during a day of hunting to work that out and we've refined it to the point where it's been a very reliable method of communicating quietly.
Now instead of blowing a whistle or yelling (and alerting every pheasant within 200 yards) we can move through prairie grasslands in stealth mode. If there's a good breeze that's already rustling the grasses, the birds don't know we're coming and that means more opportunities for solid points and good shots.


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

Tone is best. Sometimes the vibe doesn't/isn't felt. I like the tone and it is unique enough so Copper never gets confused.  Get one off the top bran e-collars and you will be very happy.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

What age is it appropriate to start training with a collar? We'd like to use the tone/vibe for Riley's recall. She is a little over 5 months now and is getting to a point where she's brave enough to venture farther and farther from us and we need an easier way than yelling to get her to come back. Her recall is 100%... unless she is super focused on something. Yesterday at the beach 3 people were tossing a ball back and forth in a triangle shape. She was SO focused on the ball that she didn't even notice we were walking away (it didn't help that the people were encouraging it and talking to her). I think if we had a collar with a vibe function it would be enough to get her attention. As soon as she noticed we were a distance away, she freaked out and booked it over to us. : (I *never* intend on using shock on her... is there a collar that only does tone/vibe?)


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## polkan (Dec 29, 2011)

threefsh; what do you think about a whistle for getting attention? There are trill and no trill whistles and they come in various sizes (loudness)


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## polkan (Dec 29, 2011)

http://www.gundogsupply.com/dualtonwhis.html


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## DougAndKate (Sep 16, 2011)

We're also looking for a collar, but with all 3 functions. Our trainer introduced one last week to Elroy, but I'm pretty sure it was a basic shock collar, and she wanted $100 for it. 

Linescreamer, can you recommend a good basic/beginner collar? Needs to be waterproof and probably a range requirement of around 1/4 to 1/2 mile at most.


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## Kobi (Oct 26, 2010)

threefsh - I imagine you'll end up either overpaying to get a collar just to use the vibrate feature, or end up with a really cheap on that breaks easy. Tough call there. I like my dogtra iQ, but it's around $170 and I definitely make use of the shock feature 

DougAndKate - I have the dogtra iQ and love it, and I know the Sportdog 400 is pretty comparable, but with the tone instead of the vibrate. I like the vibrate feature, but you have to be sure the collar is on tight enough for it to be effective, otherwise it won't be felt all the time as Linescreamer mentioned. If I was smart I'd mark the right hole on the collar so I didn't get it wrong all the time ;D


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

polkan said:


> threefsh; what do you think about a whistle for getting attention? There are trill and no trill whistles and they come in various sizes (loudness)


I can whistle very loudly and with a high pitch, but she tends to ignore it. We tried a whistle from the pet store and that didn't even interest her ??? It's strange, but her best recall is with a simple "RILEY, COME!"


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

Kobi said:


> I like the vibrate feature, but you have to be sure the collar is on tight enough for it to be effective, otherwise it won't be felt all the time as Linescreamer mentioned. If I was smart I'd mark the right hole on the collar so I didn't get it wrong all the time ;D


You got that right! The collar must be tight and high on the neck. It is particularly hard with Vs because their ears are SO big and we don't want to hurt them when putting the collar on.


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

DougAndKate said:


> We're also looking for a collar, but with all 3 functions. Our trainer introduced one last week to Elroy, but I'm pretty sure it was a basic shock collar, and she wanted $100 for it.
> 
> Linescreamer, can you recommend a good basic/beginner collar? Needs to be waterproof and probably a range requirement of around 1/4 to 1/2 mile at most.


I like the Tritronics G3 - It will go a month without a charge. Very durable and waterproof. It never fails and that is important.

http://www.amazon.com/Tri-Tronics-S...53HS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328038598&sr=8-1

However, if I lived in a more rural area, I probably would go with a collar that had a 1 mile range (they get expensive).


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## Aimless1 (Sep 25, 2011)

threefsh said:


> I can whistle very loudly and with a high pitch, but she tends to ignore it. We tried a whistle from the pet store and that didn't even interest her ??? It's strange, but her best recall is with a simple "RILEY, COME!"


The Acme Thunderer is still one of the best whistles out there


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## DougAndKate (Sep 16, 2011)

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Doing more research this week and will talk to our trainer again on Thursday night, and will probably make a decision this weekend.

Edit: Just ordered the Dogtra IQ. We think Elroy will respond to the vibrate feature more so then the tone.

Kobi, does your dog respond to the vibrate?


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Just sold my SportDog 1825 and went with TT sport basic G3. 
Reason for switching, receiver on SD1825 was too big and heavy, dog could not comfortably shake his head. Lost $100 but I think will be better with TT.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Also like the G3-the rechargeable collar is a big plus-change the transmitter battery once a year at the start of the hunting season-tough waterproof and I like the beep-thats all I use on PIKE now


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Tri-tronics' made in the USA. Dogtra in S. Korea & SportDOG is made in China :-[

Sam still likes to be tickled but tone is enough with light distraction. For some reason he couldn't stand the vibe feature on the SD1825. Scared the living daylights out of him ???


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I have used both Sportdog and Tritronics. I prefer the Tritronics


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

One more point to wrap this up for those looking for collars. If you get a collar with tone, you don't NEED to use it. You could use a low setting to get the dog's attention and just move the dial up if the dog doesn't respond. Another very usefull feature is continuous stimulation. This should be used on a very low setting to finish properly.


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