# Not a Vizsla!



## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2012/12/not-vizsla.html

Sent to me by a friend:

"Hi Rod, 

Met a Hungarian Vizsla breeder with thick accent and all.

He took an interest in my Vizsla and congratulated me on keeping him intact. 

But, next he said something strange "You don't have a Vizsla!!!"

"How so?", I asked.

"You see, it may look like a Vizsla but dogs have a mental part and a physical part."

"*Your dog's mind is not Vizsla. A Vizsla's only purpose is hunt and behaves affectionately toward people and other animals*". 

He also said these days it's just not possible to hunt breed in Europe so breeders reluctantly are forced to accept the family dog role of the Vizsla.

1,000 years of refining the hunt instinct and behavior and Socialism destroyed all that in 60 years.

I got the affectionate part, my Vizsla is very affectionate but, how did he know my dog is not hunting?"

Thought it was an interesting exchange.

RBD


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

8)


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

I think even in Europe you can still have both parts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIlVc0TPXj4&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4WoL-BbET4&feature=plcp


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

Cooper's not what I would call a true Vizsla. He does love birds, but Riley is _passionate_ about birds and that is the difference. All I have to do is say the word "bird" and she goes nuts.


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

They will not hunt waterfowl either lol
Mine swims in the salt waters 45 degrees weekly ;D

Upland there best 8)
No I am wrong you see there is no right
if you take the time to prove
Blood not the only Judge
I think in the V Heart is for me

make it a great day for less


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

harrigab,

Great videos and your pup still has "the hunt" remaining. 

The game of catch me with your three "pups" made me laugh.

Thanks, I needed that.

RBD


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## SkyyMax (Apr 5, 2012)

Skyy has such an amazing "bird instinct" - I don't think I have ever seen the dog as driven as her, BUT... she is scared of gun fire. Scared is understatement - she completely shuts down.

Max on other hand is fine with a gunfire, but has little interest in birds


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

I'm actually trying to curb Ruby's prey drive when we're on pheasant shoots, she's great on the birds, it's just if she sees hares or deer her endorphins seem to kick in


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

So it's true, they make good family pets 
Sorry to say my Sam was not born with feathers in his mouth but on the other hand was born in a human family home  and not in a barn, as it's often the case.


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

*redbirddog*, what an interesting conversation! The more I observe my two girls, the more questions I have haha. My American Sophie and Hungarian Pacsirta are very different. As weird as it may sound, I feel like Pacsirta is not at all a pet. She needs a job to be happy. All she wants to do is to please us. It's like she's working for us and making sure we're happy with her! During her bird training she needs very little correction and is amazing at what she does! I hate to compare them both, but it is really hard not to notice the difference. Of course, Sophie is our beloved baby, and she is so sweet in her own ways. Can't imagine having any other Vs in my life!


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Suliko,

You see what I see. The "hunt" surrendered to the family pet. It is mental in the dog and not physical. 

Now a days, if you bring me 30 Vizslas and let me be around them for 10 minutes and I'll be able to differentiate the differences between the _*Vizsla*_ and the _*Not Vizsla*_. It really is that easy.

It is why I call my dogs "Hungarian Pointers" to anyone who asks. An earlier thread.

http://www.vizslaforums.com/index.php/topic,4757.0.html


RBD


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

I don't think you would be able to tell on my boy. 

He is from a father import from Hungary hunting line and a line on his mothers side that isAmerican and European mix that has done shows and hunting.

He is not hunted by me but if he is running a field his prey drive is crazy, he has a huge range in how far out he will run and has pointed since 8 weeks old. He has held a point before for minutes upon minutes.

At home he is affectionate but he chooses when he wants to cuddle and when he is happy to just go in the other room for some space.

He is also the type that needs a job and therefore the amount of activity/puzzle toys he gets a day is crazy. Also hiding things around the house for him to find is a favorite. 

So not sure if someone could tell straight away from his behaviour. They might just think is a really poorly trained hunter.


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## VictoriaW (Mar 16, 2011)

redbirddog said:


> You see what I see. The "hunt" surrendered to the family pet.


It needs to be a balance. The family pet should never be surrendered to the hunt! Vizslas are meant to be BOTH hunter & family companion.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

i can understand both sides, and have seen both sides.
My first V, Boone, was a machine. He lived to hunt, and everything else was secondary to him. he was a joy as a truck dog and frisbee chaser, and a pet, but he only truly "came alive" when the bell went on in the field. It was like night and day. A switch just went on in his brain, and he became a completly different animal. If it moved, he could hunt it, fur, or fowl.
My second V, Silkcut, was a hunter only. He'd do what you asked around the house,and was polite with folks, but he was a pure hunter. He used to chase ducks in the winter on the water, and beak ice to do it. I swear I thought that dog would drown someday, but he could swim like an Otter.
My Third V, Rush had the balance. He could hunt, and be a pet.
Gunnr is like Silkcut. She hunts, that's it. She spend hours everyday hunting birds, chipmunks, squirrels, and rabbits in the backyard. She's the first V I've had that actually convinced me that she doesn't really need me. She is happy and content all be herself outside. For the first year or so that I owned her, she never looked at me on her own. Didn't care. She's better now. 
Tika is my first "walflower". She has all the tools to hunt,and I know it, but she does not want to leave us. We are more important to her than the hunt.

They're all different, and each one is an individual.


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

Just love this discussion  As for human companionship, my two are very different, too. Sophie is a very needy companion. She will faithfully sit right accross from us, slightly whining, sometimes pawing and will constantly invite us to play with her. She will bring toys and put them in front of us or on us and beg to play with her. She does the same thing to Pacsirta, too. Pacsirta on the other hand never begs us to play with her. She just follows us everywhere we go and makes herself comfortable right next to our feet if we stop for a second. She might bring a bone along to chew on while we're folding laundry, but mostly she just patiently waits until we move on to a new location in the house. When we pet her, hug her, kiss her, she is the happiest pup out there and acts like she hasn't seen us for hours even though she has been next to us the entire day. The only time she plays is actually with Sophie (or other dogs). And I have seen her a few times entertaining herself rolling over a bone... which looks quite funny. 
Same breed, similar characteristics at first glance, but once you learn more about them, they are so different!


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

I'm finding it hard to take and understand why the fella with the thick accent can assume that after only 60 years the hunt drive has been bred out of European V's, surely they wouldn't lose that genetic marker after such a relatively short time span??


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> bred out of European V's, surely they wouldn't lose that genetic marker after such a relatively short time span??


There is a video about the history of the dog and the experiments in Russia with fox and how you can breed either submission or aggression. Don't remember where I found it, maybe someone can link.

60 years, in dog breeding, could be 30 generations of manipulation. Genes can change that quickly if you breed for specifics. The hunt gene gets suppressed by "stronger" passive genes. 

Here is a related video on how our kids will be different than us.

Juan Enriquez: Will our kids be a different species?

http://www.ted.com/talks/juan_enriquez_will_our_kids_be_a_different_species.html

RBD


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

It can and does happen. Less people hunting over these dogs, so the drive that is so important to a few is bred less. Overtime it is all but lost. I see plenty of ads for V puppies out of parents that have never been in a bird field.
You can look at other breeds where the hunting line and the show line looks like two different breeds.
Not only can you tell the difference in Vs that hunt, you can see a difference in hunt bred and field trial bred with only a minute or two in a field.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Hopefully Ken will be posting some pictures of tiny real V puppies for us to enjoy today. Thank you Ken and those like you that keep the breed true to its original purpose.


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## veifera (Apr 25, 2012)

I'm not sure the hunting instinct can be bred out of the breed. Any puppy that stalks, chases and play bites is showing hunting instinct. Maybe it can be suppressed, but probably not eliminated.

The problem is that the modern public is not interested in hunting as a sport (killing poor birds!!!) and doesn't need it for survival. They are asking breeders for calmer, more obedient dogs and as a result the breeders are not putting the same premium on how much the instinct is developed as they would on appearance or temperament. My breeder told me about the shift she saw over the years from field trials, to hunting tests to agility - driven by urbanization, convenience and cost. 

I had the opportunity to watch GSPs in a couple of trials recently where they completely dominated the field. It was truly breathtaking to watch - the range, the intensity - I've never seen anything like that before. But going back home later, I was wondering if these dogs would do well outside of the field triallers' world and if a Vizsla with that style and range would still be a Vizsla (or an orange GSP)...


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## veifera (Apr 25, 2012)

RBD: is this the video you were talking about (selecting foxes for tameness in Siberia)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbcwDXhugjw


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> is this the video you were talking about (selecting foxes for tameness in Siberia)?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbcwDXhugjw


That is the one. Yes, we can loose the hunt in our hunting dog; or suppress it so far DOWN it may never come back.

Congratuations Ken and Janet on bringing at least 6 new *Vizslas* into the world. 8)

RBD


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

I have trained and hunted over 55 dogs in the greater years past

most were not mine

11 great and good ones were and each shined in some applications over others

some were so Yuppified : they were not even board are rigs :

after repeated training skills and rewards and yes stress

most tried and hunted fair to poor and were at least 2 years old and very bad habits for sporting dogs

Few were blood chasers of great upland bird dog genes I took on to help support .

With great lands No owners around and skills most came around

Like why I stopped coaching Kids the parents hurt the games
not the kids 

little Johnny was not great but He may be trying

These were city potatoes lol

All hunted for me ;D
but all of this being said earning 20 miles daily all conditions and weathers is in the hunters blood as well as his hunting dog and partner

not for most

The V is a better then great family dog and so good with kids
at least all mine were

99 percent comes from the Owners pride, care and efforts for real life results

All of this must be earned
few from a pc

Here a few potatoes I trained on ducks and **** birds

most said they would never hunt

Cardio was a issue but we had some fun lol

and the keys to the bus My Boy the Stud many names and great breeds and blood were helping me coach them be the Boss

just whistle trained and hand commands.

Make it a great day

Rudy


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## zigzag (Oct 4, 2011)

My Vizsla came from a backyard breeder, off a farm in Kansas. Bitch and sire belonged to the gentelman who hunted them on Pheasant. There are no fancy titles in his first generation pedigree. During the off season his dogs lived in his home with a family and young children to play with. I visited the litter, picked my pup and payed my 550 bucks. Boarded a plane and took my chances. I have to say that I would not trade a single quality for another on my dog (kennel blind) YES. I hunt him along side a Vizsla that came out of FT lines from a well known breeder up north. When its game time, my boy holds his own easily. At 1.5yrs old this month, he lives in the house full time. Sleeps with the kids, four and six. I no longer need to crate him during the day, he just sleeps on his bed till I get home from work. Do I have the best of both worlds? YES. That's a Vizsla!


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

zigzag said:


> My Vizsla came from a backyard breeder, off a farm in Kansas. Bitch and sire belonged to the gentelman who hunted them on Pheasant. There are no fancy titles in his first generation pedigree. During the off season his dogs lived in his home with a family and young children to play with. I visited the litter, picked my pup and payed my 550 bucks. Boarded a plane and took my chances. I have to say that I would not trade a single quality for another on my dog (kennel blind) YES. I hunt him along side a Vizsla that came out of FT lines from a well known breeder up north. When its game time, my boy holds his own easily. At 1.5yrs old this month, he lives in the house full time. Sleeps with the kids, four and six. I no longer need to crate him during the day, he just sleeps on his bed till I get home from work. Do I have the best of both worlds? YES. That's a Vizsla!


very similar to my scenario


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> My Vizsla came from a backyard breeder, off a farm in Kansas. Bitch and sire belonged to the gentelman who hunted them on Pheasant. There are no fancy titles in his first generation pedigree.


http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2011/07/dont-support-backyard-breed.html

I enjoy playing poker with friends. When I go "all in", I want to have the strongest hand I can. I can't bluff very well. :-\
Heath tests and a solid health background on our dogs is what the pedigree is for me. I had very knowledgeable Vizsla folks look at the pedigrees before we bred Bailey with a female to make sure there were no genetic health issues. I had a dog once with hip dyspepsia and another that was extremely aggressive (pound rescues). Don't want those problems coming up in breeding. Could it happen even with all the research and testing? Yes, but I like my odds *much better* for when I go "all in."


http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2011/01/matchmaker-matchmaker.html


RBD


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## zigzag (Oct 4, 2011)

RBD I agree, OFA-G throughout the pedigree is a must. Finding a breeder who actually hunted his dogs on wild birds and lived in the home with them was pocket aces IMO.


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