# Puppy help - Crate and barking



## IagainstI

Hello

I have read almost every topic on crate training on this site and nothing has been working for me. I have tried leaving for short periods of time and slowly increasing the time away and she literally starts to bark as soon as the crate is shut. I have also tried leaving for 30 minutes and letting her bark it out, and she barks the entire time. She doesn't really have issues with the crate at night time. If she is tired and I put her in and sit with her for a moment she will go to sleep and only get up once in the night. However, if she is not tired and I just put her in there she will not lay down and just jumps and barks at the gate. I am currently off for the summer so I am around almost all the time, but it would be nice to leave once and a while. She is 9 weeks old. 

Thanks


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## Linescreamer

9 weeks old!  She is trying to train you to not put her in there unless she is tired! Keep it up be patient and she will give in. If you are not leaving the crate open during the day, when you are around, and hiding treats in there you should. All her toys should be picked up, only provided one at a time in the crate. Anything interesting to her should be given to her, yes - in the crate. She will get the idea. You need to put her in there with a bone and shut the door when you are, yes home - and in the same room where she can see you (maybe you are eating lunch and she is having hers - in the crate. It will come but you need to spend allot more time at it. Whatever you do; do not let her out of the crate when she is barking! If you do this; the rest of the training is/was wasted time.


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## tripp

I'm having the same problems with my pup. She is almost 12 weeks. She constantly cries and barks when she is in the crate. I've tried hiding the treats and toys but it's not working. Also every time I put food in there and try to establish that's where to eat she ends up just spilling it everywhere. I bought " weighted bowls she can't knock over", yea those really work! I swear she is a genius , I made the mistake of not latching the bottom of the crate door and she was out in about 15 min. Not to mention my bed to high for her to jump on but some how she gets things off my bed with no trace of how she did it. Trust me I've gone stealth mode and spied from my closet! And she didn't pull the comforter off. Idk she's either a genius or a ninja!


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## IagainstI

She will actually go into the crate by herself and sleep if I am watching tv or whatever and the door is open. I put a kong in with her stuffed full of goodies but as soon as the door closes she drops it and begins her tantrum.

Thanks


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## Linescreamer

Tripp. No feeding in the crate! Just treats. ;D There should only be enough room in there for her to lay down. Read more and stick to the plan. Ignore the barking. Put an old shirt that smells like you in the crate, tie some knots in it.  There are 100 things I could tell you, but the most important is DO NOT give up. They need the crate and so do you. Make it a home for them; all good things should be associated with the crate. Just shut the door for 5 min and wait until she is quiet then open it and say "GOOD GIRL" give her a treat and pet her. You can't make a big enough deal out of it! Then expand the crated time to 10 min and then 20, 1hr etc. Do all this while you are home and in plain sight or within hearing distance. Whatever you do - DO NOT open that door when they are barking. If you are - you are going to have to start all over again! Again I'll say it, this is not personal - they are training you if you don't succeed. Examine your behavior. Provide a consistent message to the dog and there will be no problems.  Yes it may take a week or two so be patient.


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## SandraDee

We had to chuck a blanket over the crate in order to get Scout to stop with the howling and barking.

We initially had him in one of the plastic sided crates at night, but he would go mental in there. Moved him to a wire one and he did better, and is a perfect angel, no barking, when we chuck a blanket over the top of the crate.


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## IagainstI

She has started to rub her nose red on the crate gate. She is getting better at staying in the crate but now that her nose is red on the top I don't want to put it in there because it gets worse every time.


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## Linescreamer

Put her in the crate when she is not being watched 100%. Don't worry about her nose, she will stop if it hurts.


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## jld640

I would be a bit careful about the nose. If she is really freaked, she won’t necessarily stop just because it hurts. If she is testing you, then yes, she will stop if it hurts.

I re-read your original post. Is she reacting to the crate door closing or knowing that the crate door closing means you are about to leave the room without her?


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## datacan

Wonderful advice - Linescreamer -. 
Our Sam in 12 weeks and since 8 weeks old has been living in the crate. 
However, didn't have the heart to put a division inside and allowed the full 36".
Put a grass patch training tray for mistakes. Somehow seems to know instinctively not to soil inside.

One mistake we make is feeding inside the crate - not sure why it is wrong maybe someone can explain.

And yes, Sam does make a racket inside but we don't open the door unless he has to go potty.
Oh, somehow if we tire him mentally (going new place, making him search, moderately running - not full speed as he can hurt himself - joints are weak at this age) - he seems to stay quiet all night until 6:30am.

good luck. Crate is a must for vet too. They put them in crates if left there.


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## Linescreamer

jld640 said:


> I would be a bit careful about the nose. If she is really freaked, she won't necessarily stop just because it hurts.


 Are you saying if the dog is mentally unstable (freaked)? I think the odds are very slim; and most mental instability is self correcting. 

Food/water in the crate - Water or food will be spilled and thus cause a dirty and uncomfortable den. Dogs like their dens to be comforting and you want them to feel comfortable and safe while inside.  In addition; they don't know when they are going to be let out do they? If you drank allot of water and a big bowl of food - it wouldn't be long before you would be barking your head off!   Always refrain form providing water or food 2 hours prior to crating. Obviously the dog needs to go out before crating also.


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## jld640

Mental instability is a bit beyond what I was talking about. If she is barking because she hates her crate, then of course, she will stop before she hurts herself. If she is barking because she is truly scared, either by the enclosed space or because she is being left by herself, she may be too involved in her fear to notice her nose. Another example of the fear I meant to describe (as opposed to mental instability) would be puppies who will jump off a couch or retaining wall before they are big enough because they are more afraid of being left alone than of being hurt by the height of the jump. 

There was a post on a different thread of a V's anxiety level that went so far beyond normal 'testing crate' behavior that the crate had to be removed to keep her safe. As I recall, removing the crate was the happy ending for that family.

Obviously, I am hopeful that ignoring the behavior worked. How about it IagainstI - any updates?


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## datacan

NO Food and no water policy inside the crate sounds reasonable. 

We are home most the time every day, I felt it was OK to allow water inside crate.

We take Sam (now 13 weeks old) outside every 3-4 hours for potty brakes and little 10 min play and fetch time.

The water inside crate thing - heard the story of a Dog on a short hiking trip (1-1.5hour) during summer. Dog overheated and died the next day. 
Apparently, no signs of exhaustion observed by owners.

Feeding outside crate done deal. Happy place inside


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## Kobi

I keep water in the crate with one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Midwest-Stain...1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1306180873&sr=8-1

Never had an accident in the crate except when he was a puppy (and didn't even have water in the crate then anyways). 

I got the 20 oz version of that bowl, and I have to fill it pretty much daily. I'd recommend a larger size, because it can go from full to empty in one drinking session. If I'm not watching the crate obviously I don't notice right away.


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## Linescreamer

jld640 said:


> If she is barking because she is truly scared, either by the enclosed space or because she is being left by herself, she may be too involved in her fear to notice her nose. Another example of the fear I meant to describe (as opposed to mental instability) would be puppies who will jump off a couch or retaining wall before they are big enough because they are more afraid of being left alone than of being hurt by the height of the jump.


That's why crate training is a process. 

I'm willing to bet, this is a situation where the owner needs more training.  I can still use more training! My poor Copper continues to suffer from my mistakes. After all, most Vizsla's are smarter then their owners.


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## Emily1970

I've tried everything too, and Riley (4 1/2 months) goes crazy if you put him in a crate. He literally starts screaming and we've been told by neighbors that he does this the entire time we're gone, soils the cage even when we've withheld water, shreds his bedding. Everything you can think of. And he is only crated 2 hours a day.


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## redbirddog

Just a suggestion. Don't know if it would work or not.

Put crate in car. Put dog in crate and take him somewhere where he can have fun. Lots of treats. Liver is the best treat for my dogs.

Repeat many times. 

My dogs sleep in our bedroom every night in their crates.

Now when it is 9pm, Bailey looks at me in the living room with that "HEY DAD, it's bed time" look. He heads right in.

Get the crate associated with good things. Don't use the crate as a punishment. 

Good luck. There are books about this also. The crate needs to become their safe and comfortable safe den. It's your job to figure out how to make it positive and never negitive. 

Thats part of the enjoyment of raising pups or kids. What works and what doesn't.

Good luck.

Rod


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## Emily1970

I'll definitely try the car thing. Thanks! We don't use the crate as punishment, I mainly think it's separation anxiety. He is totally fixated on my daughter and is happiest when she's around. She has to crate him to leave for work, we get home 2 hours later and let him out. He doesn't even want to eat until she gets home.


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## Linescreamer

Poor Riley. How does a dog scream. ???


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## Emily1970

That's the only way I can describe it. It sounds like someone or something is being murdered. :-[


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## Linescreamer

LOL. ;D Dogs don't scream, and they do NOT get out of the crate if they are making any noise whatsoever.  Let us know if we can help.


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