# Teenager or something more



## CSF (May 19, 2017)

I have posted before and have always gotten good advice- so here it goes again!

Piper is now almost 10 months old and I think she is way to bitey and nippy with us still-
She seems to be and has always been a little independently minded- she listens for treats and also when asked to sit for pets- waits at the door to be let out and also for food- she has to stay on her place until she is released. The last month- she also has to wait at her place while we eat dinner and is rewarded for her good behavior with her meal. I take care of 90 percent of her exercise needs- plus mental/training activities. I feel like I am her pack leader- but maybe she doesn't see it that way 

She enjoys jumping on our bed- even though she knows it is off limits and then when I issue the OFF command- she just looks at me and then goes in to rough play mood and If I try and move her off physically she gets mouthy and bitey at my clothes and sometimes my hands- which leads to her getting wild and more bitey and taking a bit to settle down. I would like to avoid this all together! I know offering her a treat- she would get off the bed- right away- but I don't think that is a good solution. If she is attached to her leash I can pull her OFF- without a fuss- but I want her to respect and listen to me. 

Another thing that she does that isn't appealing to me- is when we ask her to get off HER bed- to go potty before bedtime- She looks at us- wild eyed and rolls over on her back and will get snappy with us if we try to physically move her- not really bite- just snap. 
I have taken to attaching her leash and just pulling her off- after she has been given enough time to listen and absorb the command. I usually will wake her up by speaking to her and let her know it is -outside potty time. She doesn't care at all about being touched or moved when asleep and she is usually curled up near myself or my Husband. She doesn't snap-growl or anything- it just has to do with being asked to get up and go potty.
She kind of does that roll over and snap thing if she is getting comfy on her bed and I need to move her to her crate- so I can go run errands. 

She has been a pretty nippy-bitey girl her whole life- I thought it would end with the shark attacks coming to an end- but it seems to keep happening 
I mentioned in a separate post that it happens when she is overly excited/stimulated as well.

Does she not respect me?


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I know others may not agree, but mine have always had a free for all time. It a time that they are allowed to wrestle, mouth, jump, and in general just like act fools. It is initiated by me, not them. 
You have a command that means its okay to do this, and one for when playtime is over. 
I do this for two reasons. 
1 I think they need this time to just have fun being dogs with us.
2 They will already have a known command in place, if/when they try to do it at a inappropriate time.


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## MikoMN (Nov 29, 2016)

Mine shows a lot of these same traits. Have you noticed the pupils dialated, or tail tucked in those moments when you approach her in her bed?


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## MikoMN (Nov 29, 2016)

texasred said:


> I know others may not agree, but mine have always had a free for all time. It a time that they are allowed to wrestle, mouth, jump, and in general just like act fools. It is initiated by me, not them.
> You have a command that means its okay to do this, and one for when playtime is over.
> I do this for two reasons.
> 1 I think they need this time to just have fun being dogs with us.
> 2 They will already have a known command in place, if/when they try to do it at a inappropriate time.



I've never thought of this, but a command to calm him back down would be handy in those crazy zoomies moments. What command have you used, and how do you go about introducing it?



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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

It was just something we started years ago. We tell the dog It's On. Then either take off running, or do something we know will start a wrestling zoomie fest.
They learn pretty quickly, that It's On means its okay to act a fool.
The command to stop is No More, and I show them the palms of my hands. Fingers facing the ground. 
I use the same command No More, when I'm finished handing out treats.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

MikoMN said:


> Mine shows a lot of these same traits. Have you noticed the pupils dialated, or tail tucked in those moments when you approach her in her bed?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What do you do, when you see those signs?
They are classic for a dog that will bite. If pushed in that frame of mind.


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## CSF (May 19, 2017)

Her pupils do dilate and she will flip on her back with her legs in the air- to keep you from moving her and then snap at you or bite with a softish mouth 
It is when you ask her to get up and she is comfortable. She doesn't do anything- if I just pull her OFF with her leash or lately I leave the room and ask her to come to me and give her a treat when she does. 
She doesn't care if we are next her or pet her on her bed-only when asked to move. 
At 10 months- I feel she does use her mouth on us too roughly still.


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## CSF (May 19, 2017)

Other times that she will bite- is when she will get a burst of energy and start barking- she won't stop her barking when you ignore her- so my Husband will hold her and tell her quiet and sometimes she turns and bites at him and he holds her nose tight and says NO BITE and gets her to sit and settle before releasing her mouth- that has worked for the last few days. 
Miko-MNN
Does you dog still get too mouthy with you??


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

There is a difference in dog being mouthy, and one that places it's mouth on you as a correction.
Mouthy is a dog that is doing it in play mode.
One placing it's mouth on you, to stop you from something is different. If you were hurting the dog, it would be a fair warning. While they are not breaking skin, and that's a good thing. It's still them using the mouth to tell you stop. Just as a dog would do to a puppy. But the correction can get stronger, and then lead to a harder bite.

I would think these dogs need to be handled every single day, in hopes of dealing with them as they mature.
By handled I mean having them stand, running your hands down their back and legs, checking ears, lifting all 4 feet.
Starting slowly and keeping it calm, and at ease. Even if that means on only doing 1 or 2 of the things. Walk them a few feet ,and then continue. 
I wouldn't push them, as it's new. I also don't want anyone to take my advise, and get bitten. You really need to watch all the dogs body language. 

I feel for y'all. 
At this time in my like, I will no longer ever have a biter in my house. They will be sent back to the breeder, and I will cut my losses, and heartache.


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## MikoMN (Nov 29, 2016)

texasred said:


> What do you do, when you see those signs?
> They are classic for a dog that will bite. If pushed in that frame of mind.


Deb, As you have said, we have learned to tell the difference between mouthy, and when he is correcting us. Being mouthy is a loving action he does towards us while playing and snuggling.

We have spoken about some of the aggression issues we have had with Miko in the past, and we have seen an improvement in a few areas. We have also not made any progress in others. We have not made any progress with his food guarding. We tried months and months of small steps, but still, when he is eating, he has his tail tucked and head down, and is very skittish. Any interruption to his eating is not a good thing, and if you call him away from his food and make him stay (not go back) he will submissively pee. We will not let the kids near him while eating. But, I regress, you asked what we do when he does it while in his bed.

We have found the best way to do it, is from a distance, not standing over him. If he wakes to you towering over him, he instantly enters submissive mode. If we make sure to wake him from a distance, we then call him to come to us. when we do this, he will react one of two ways.
1. He gets up, mosies on over to us and comes in for a pet. We then can send him to his kennel and everything is good.

2. He opens his eyes and looks at us and ignores. We then have 3 options:
a. Keep giving the come command each time more vigorous until he obeys (I don't like this one. I was always told don't give a command you can't enforce)
b. Walk over and softly grab his caller, while talking very gently, and help guide him from the bed to his kennel. (this is not my favorite way to do it, he will always react with pupils dilated, roll on back, and tail tucked, and has even bit at my wife when she was attempting.)
c. If he is still wearing his e-collar, I give him the command, if he ignores it, a very light stimulation, and he usually obeys well enough with no problems. Usually after a day of this, he does pretty well to obey no problem for a couple days. I think he remembers pretty well.

CFS, the reason I asked about the tail tucked, and the pupils is because in my experience, this is a sure sign that the dog is very uncomfortable, and could be pushed past her limits any second. Your husband grabbing her and forcing to do something, or your forcing her out of bed by hand is probably a bad idea in these moments.


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## riley455 (Aug 27, 2011)

CSF said:


> I have posted before and have always gotten good advice- so here it goes again!
> 
> Piper is now almost 10 months old and I think she is way to bitey and nippy with us still-
> She seems to be and has always been a little independently minded- she listens for treats and also when asked to sit for pets- waits at the door to be let out and also for food- she has to stay on her place until she is released. The last month- she also has to wait at her place while we eat dinner and is rewarded for her good behavior with her meal. I take care of 90 percent of her exercise needs- plus mental/training activities. I feel like I am her pack leader- but maybe she doesn't see it that way
> ...


Hello CSF,

Very difficult without seeing first hand Piper’s behavior in those situations you described. So please take great precautions with the following:

Practice and reinforce the OFF command. Start in locations other than your bedroom. You can move and practice in the bedroom after Piper exhibits good and consistent respect of such command. You may have to do these repetitions with leash if she’s not following your command, so a quick tug and correction can be done. Lots of praise and treats with each good behavior.

With regards to being snappy and bitey, does she growl and shows full on teeth? Has she exhibited this behavior from puppyhood? Has she bitten hard (broken skin, not broken skin)? You don’t have to answer these questions in the forum but be honest to yourself.

Unwanted behavior (including snapping and bitey but not mouthing) should have been addressed early on. Have you reached out to your breeder? Your breeder may have dealt with this type of behavior in the past.

What I’ve seen other folks do in this situation (mostly puppies under 4 months) is hold the puppy’s muzzle and look into the eyes and with a firm voice “NO”. Others would give a harder correction (tug on the leash) and again firm voice “NO”. Also constant exposure to people, other dogs, and sights and noise.

I’m not advising you to try the above on Piper (grab muzzle). 

You may have to consult a behaviorist especially if Piper has bitten anyone. And at 10 months she has pretty much ingrained in her this unwanted behavior. I’m not an expert in canine behavior and what I do and apply to my situation I have learned from friends, breeders/exhibitors, mentors, handlers (both show and field), obedience classes and various reading materials.


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## CSF (May 19, 2017)

Thought I would give an update to this thread. With the help of TexasRed- (thank you!) we were able to get in contact with someone who works with and owns Vizslas. Piper went away to a in home board and train for 2 weeks. The trainer was able to see all of her behaviors! She told us that most of our problem- might be because Piper is super smart and will try to do things her way. 

Piper is wearing a training collar (kind of like a prong collar) for now and has had her leash attached pretty much all day long. She is barking at us way way way less and the biting is getting better. 
Piper does try to go our beds- but she has been getting off with no issues, just with the command. I do think that was a fun biting game to her. 
I tried everything before bringing her to be boarded and trained- time outs- long down stays- ignoring her and nothing got through to her before the actual correction with the collar and leash. 

The getting off her bed at night hasn't changed- I just attach her leash to her collar and issue the command and gently pull her off bed. She doesn't mind me hooking up her leash- sometimes she even gets off on her own and then she is praised and usually given a treat. 

Piper really is the hardest and sweetest dog all at the same time! She will be 1 year old in a few weeks and this has been such a hard year. I hope things do get somewhat easier. 

I don't know if anyone else out there has a Vizsla that has had issues with overstimulation and over-arousal and just general impulse control. Piper seems to have a time limit to her good behavior and then will lose it. 
We do play lots of impulse control games and she had the patience tonight to wait for her toy while I was sewing it up again 

I can usually have her off leash at a dog park or on a trail for about 1 hour before she gets the zoomies and will start barking and might nip at me if I try to go get her. I am really hope the leash and collar corrections and using the word no- will help change that behavior as well. Right now- I am kind of monitoring her time and leashing up and leaving the park or trail before her expiration time. 

Does anyone else out their have an issue with their dog getting too wild when they have access to all of their toys? I have to be the toy monitor as well or she gets to wild and that turns into being wild with us. The toys are usually all put away and come out one or two at a time and put away after about 30 minutes. 

I hope we will be able to help Piper be able to extend her time being calmer off leash- does that just come with age?? 

The trainer is coming over to our house in a couple of weeks to help continue to teach me what I need to work on and how to be a better leader for Piper.


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## riley455 (Aug 27, 2011)

CSF said:


> Thought I would give an update to this thread. With the help of TexasRed- (thank you!) we were able to get in contact with someone who works with and owns Vizslas. Piper went away to a in home board and train for 2 weeks. The trainer was able to see all of her behaviors! She told us that most of our problem- might be because Piper is super smart and will try to do things her way.
> 
> Piper is wearing a training collar (kind of like a prong collar) for now and has had her leash attached pretty much all day long. She is barking at us way way way less and the biting is getting better.
> Piper does try to go our beds- but she has been getting off with no issues, just with the command. I do think that was a fun biting game to her.
> ...


Thank you for the update. I think you are headed in the right direction. Perhaps ask your trainer if Piper can get involve in some type of activities, agility, hunting tests/events, nose work, etc. Again thank you for sharing this update.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I missed seeing the update.
So happy things are improving.


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