# Loose lead walking ........ Proof for the non believers! :)



## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Pics/Vid or it didn't happen. So yesterday, I finally managed to remember to video a little loose lead walking.  

http://youtu.be/i6W8P4DzzYY


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## raps702 (Dec 19, 2010)

Nice video Ozkar, perhaps we could get a little longer video? Maybe a 2 minute video? I believe in you mate, you can do it....


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Is that Astro and Zaza? YOU are the dog master, if they are not tired that is book material you have there. Technique and timing. How long is a day in Au; longer than 24hours? You must have an amazing work schedule. 

Clicker only, or some human-dog mind connection? I know you don't like treats. PLEASE elaborate...


Regards,
Julius


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Ozkar-with more work and treats-we may be able to let YOU off lead-LOL


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

Wooowhh OzKar,

I can see a TV show coming on if that keeps up 

Ceasar Milan must be 'Bricking It'!!! 

The 'PROOF IS OUT THERE'  

Hobbsy


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

To answer some questions........

I am no Ceaser Milan. I think that guy while I don;t agree with all things he does, is a bit of a GURU. I'm just your average mug punter who learnt to work with dogs on a farm. I'm not the sort of person to write a book, nor to do a video series or anything. Maybe if someone else presented it, I might?? But, I don;t think what I have to offer is worthy of the print or the data space on a hard drive. If you want a book written, I reckon you ask RBD, TR, REM or even Linescreamer. These guys hunt. Hunting instils awesome disciplines and rewards for a dog. I listen to those guys in here a lot and take on board most of what they say. So get them to write the book!!  

As to methods, it's no biggie, I just start with treats as a pup to get the initial embedding of the command. But from there, I believe the dog should WANT to do things, just to make you happy. That's if you have a tight relationship with them. So I drop treats pretty much except for reworking things.

My work schedule since November has been 2-3 days work per week. So I have had 4-5 days per week to work with the dogs. But, the loose lead walk was already in place before November. Zsa Zsa was the hardest to break through with and she will still need a little reminder "Don't pull" occasionally. Especially if there is a bird in a bush or something similar. Of course, I'm not going to video the bad bits when she breaks heel now am I???  But Zsa Zsa was a rescue at 12 months and had never lead walked until I got her. So I can accept the odd break from heel with her. Although, I will remind her where she is. 

I don't use clickers, I can't talk to animals (Although all my motorcycling mates refer to me as Dr. Do Little. Not because I am lazy, but due to the amount of times we pull up for a break in the middle of nowehere and a bird, snake, rabbit, kangaroo, dog or whatever will gravitate to me. Here is an example of such a thing. This pic was taken At Marysville before it was raised by fire three years ago on Black Saturday. We went for a ride and when we stopped for lunch, King Parrots decided they liked me. I think it may have had something to do with the yummy carrot cake I was eating at the time however... )

I'll use treats to reinstate a neglected act. But not as a rule. Example, the recall was getting lazy recently, so I took a treat bag on a few walks and recalled a lot. Sometimes they got a treat, other times praise. It fixed the recall in two walks. 

There are no secrets or techniques I use that you guys don't, or that we have not already talked about in threads. There are no secrets. Success has come from my mantra I regurgitate at the end of most training thread posts..... Repetition and consistency. Repeat and repeat and repeat, regularly. That's all I do. 

I'll show you an off lead heel when I get a chance to have someone else video it for me. It's too hard trying to focus the camera and watch where you and the dogs are going. I'm not that skilled.... :-[ But, I'll do that one when I have all three. That will be a treat to see on video, two Vizslas and a GSP in an off lead heel out in public. 

There are real reasons why I have worked so hard on all this. 1. Snakes... I want them under control when snakes are around. 2. People see my dogs, think hunting dogs, then think KILLERS, then get scared and freak out. It happens daily on most walks. A frightened male or female voice yelling at you to put your dogs on a lead, they are dangerous   So I wanted them to recall instantly when asked. 

Repetition and Consistency. That's the big secret


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

Who got dragged out of the 'Wrong side of Bed' by his three Dogs!?!?

Back to the point, I'm thinking 'HeadCam', Eye in the sky 'Parrot-Cam' (Carrot Cake Powered!), K9-Cam to get the best camera angles and action shots covered!! ;D

Just a thought Dr Doolittle 

Here's a link to inspire you on how well our 'Training' sessions are progressing!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOrmtPHrwI4

Mr & Mrs Hobbsy


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> Back to the point, I'm thinking 'HeadCam', Eye in the sky 'Parrot-Cam' (Carrot Cake Powered!), K9-Cam to get the best camera angles and action shots covered!!


http://www.rayallen.com/product/mounted_k9_camera_system/Police-Military-k9

The K9 camera. I want one. If someone buys it can I borrow it for the weekend? ;D

Want a dog book? "Merle's Door" is a dog book! Have I said that before? Maybe a 100 times.

RBD


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## kristen (Oct 18, 2011)

Get a GoPro. Theyre little hd vid cams that take stills as well. Waterproof, and tiny (2x1x1" or so) lots of mounts for motos, helmets etc. Love mine


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Ozcar! you always make ME SMILE!


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

R said:


> Ozcar! you always make ME SMILE!


Glad I make someone smile mate! I hope it's for the right reasons.....as in with me....not at me!  

As for a GoPro or similar, I have seen a guy who mountain bikes with his V. I've seen footage of the bike following the rider shot from the handlebars, the V following the bike, shot once again from the bike and then footage of the GoPro strapped to the dog. The footage strapped to the dog is almost unwatchable, as the camera moves around too much. There is a whole lot of muscle movement going on when a dog is at full pelt.

But, the footage of the dog following the bike taken from the bike, is pretty awesome to see. He slow motions a couple of sections where they go over jumps and dips and you should see his Vizsla's "Suspension" working over time. It's truly awesome to watch as they hunch there bodies over a jump, so they can immediately get paws to the ground and get power down again! I'll have a surf on youtube and see if I can find it. I thought it may have been posted in here before?? Maybe not? Memories hey, wish I could remember them!


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

Ozkar, Smiling with you mate!! ;D

Your posts are the first I read when I log on, They put a smile on my face ;D

Keep up the good work, maybe a business opportunity on here with 'VizCam' Or the Like!! ??? ??? (60/40 Cut )

Hobbsy


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

I've just subscribed to your youtube channel


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## kristen (Oct 18, 2011)

Ozkar said:


> The footage strapped to the dog is almost unwatchable, as the camera moves around too much.


I agree, strapped to a fast moving big athletic dog; theres a lot of movement. For non-running situations and smaller dogs, it works better. Friends of mine strapped one on their french bulldog, and its brilliant.
I was thinking more strapped to your belt or a hat or similar, so you could have your hands free.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Ozkar, maybe the birds were attracted to the sweet smelling drink. Try beer next time, better yet root beer.

Also, Coke tends to ruin teeth. Phosphoric acid etches the enamel and caramel coats it. Makes for a nice feast for bacteria. Good for my business ??? 
http://worldental.org/nutrition/bad-and-good-soft-drinks-for-your-teeth-health/66/

Julius - dental lab - cosmetics/C&B


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> Ozkar, maybe the birds were attracted to the sweet smelling drink. Try beer next time, better yet root beer.


I just had to wait for the right opportunity to use the below picture.
Thanks Datacan ;D.

RBD


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## SteelCityDozer (Aug 25, 2011)

Maybe I should have picked a different thread as this one is getting crazy! But below is my proof. Of course when I started paying attention to him he got lazy about paying attention to me. I found once when I was frustrated about pulling I simply said "fine, do what you want" and dropped the lead. He suddenly was glued to my knee. But here's how he's doing after several sessions of MY new method. Meaning I tried several others before this one and it's def the best for Dozer. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmxbJJnn53E&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

I expect an awful lot from Mischa I suppose, but it's not loose-lead to me until the leash drags on the floor between us. I smile ear-to-ear when we walk like that. 
I'm sure she can feel my pride at those times, but she clearly values traveling quick and nose low to the ground, much more than making me feel proud! ;D **** dog! 

If I let her get out in front, she'll be loose for a moment, then it's right back to pulling like a train. Certainly still a work in progress for us, but I'm glad to see an improvement since I got the e-collar. I work with it on and off leash. I find if I change direction quickly, she's right there with me, but when we're walking straight for a while, she gets bored and wants to travel her way. (freight train style)


It is impressive to see you guys do this with just a flat collar. 8)
Good Job!


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Mischa, those leads are not held from the end of them in that Vid. I actually had the ends in my right hand with the camera and my left hand holding the loose bit. I used this method as it kept the dogs closer to me. When in a heel, I want them right by my knee, almost rubbing against it. 

As for collars. The most harsh collar I have used in the entire time with dogs is a plain leather collar. I like the ones they have at the moment though. They have wetsuit style material inside and it makes it really nice to touch. The leads have the same material in the handle loop and are great. No chafing for me or them  

As for harnesses or other walking aids, I kinda tried them but never really liked it. Not sure why, but I just prefer to teach them to heel when on lead and not have to worry about them choking themselves by pulling when walking. It does take a little extra time to get it nailed, but I prefer to do this so that as they grow, we get to a point where we won't need leads at all, no matter where we are. (Legislation permitting of course.)


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Mischa said:


> I expect an awful lot from Mischa I suppose, but it's not loose-lead to me until the leash drags on the floor between us. I smile ear-to-ear when we walk like that.
> I'm sure she can feel my pride at those times, but she clearly values traveling quick and nose low to the ground, much more than making me feel proud! ;D **** dog!
> 
> If I let her get out in front, she'll be loose for a moment, then it's right back to pulling like a train. Certainly still a work in progress for us, but I'm glad to see an improvement since I got the e-collar. I work with it on and off leash. I find if I change direction quickly, she's right there with me, but when we're walking straight for a while, she gets bored and wants to travel her way. (freight train style)
> ...



I don't bother correcting, I put a comfortable harness on Sam and let him pull if he wants. The harder he pulls the more of a workout he and I get ;D
Oh, if I want him to heel, I use the e-collar and go off leash with very good heel results.


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

I really, truly hate the tension caused by a tight leash, so I think my personal standard is high. It is not unreasonable though, as Mischa has walked perfectly many times, so I know she is capable, and Crazy Kian is amazing on leash walks, so she also has a good influence around too...

My back is doing fine right now, but has been in bad shape a few times over the past couple of years. It's important to me to have a dog that walks beside me, and not one that pulls me around.

The walk is something we do everyday rain or shine. Non-negotiable. 
I don't mind providing her with an off leash outlet for her energy, but feel much better about giving her that when she is walking nicely beside me on the way to an off-leash spot. 
The walk is therapeutic to me when she is behaving, and stressful when she is not.

To me, off-leash heel is the exact same as on-leash heel. The only difference is that the leash drags on the sidewalk. The leash is there as a safety, but I try to use the command, the e-collar, or changing direction to correct her. The tug on the leash does nothing but create more tension in my experience.

I had some old ladies call me a show off (lol) because I wouldn't pass them and their dogs until Mischa would walk up to them without pulling. I kept turning around like a goof until she got it right. I've done this a number of times in the past, but it's finally starting to come together. 

The prong collar has been put away permanently, so I'm happy with her progress. It is still something we work on daily though.

My goal is to be able to walk her on city streets confidently without a leash some day. (when she is 10...)


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

I understand why legal documents seem long. I left out a few things. 

1. Goes without saying on leash/off leash - same thing 

Since I got Sam E-collar conditioned (not to all commands/yet) I no longer need a flat/prong/or choke chain of any kind. The only reason I use neck collar on Sam, it carries the tags and makes him more visible - hunter orange. Sometimes I just attach the tags to the E-collar, saves some real estate on his neck. In very familiar places I don't use the E-collar at all.

2. When I walk Sam I have the E-collar and a harness just like Turid Ruggas advised. I don't Electrocute the dog, *I only use TONE* (tree-hugger style)
I have had many harnesses for my dogs and always used a harness when walking, unless I train. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPuf_nhUmE0

http://www.canis.no/rugaas/



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
BTW, there are collars out there that hide the prongs well so no ill informed citizen will come up and say things.
http://www.lolalimited.net/Secretprong.html

I use the prongs in new environments (it would be cruel not to). For example we planned a trip (Socializing) to the The Brick (furniture store) for the first time and Sam goes ballistic (of course). There would be no point in using the E-collar in this situation, but the prongs did prove effective. The E-collar would be hard to use because there are just too many things to correct. 
Of course, the second time went easier and the third time, no prongs at all (tree-hugger way).


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

I got a short opportunity to walk the dogs in a heel on the side of a roadway. There was football matches on at the oval which the road leads to, so there were plenty of distractions, but they were all on their best behaviour.  



http://youtu.be/ZJzPTjScLMI


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## OttosMama (Oct 27, 2011)

WOW Ozkar! SO impressive!! You give me hope : ) I would probably be holding Otto for dear life if a car drove by and he was off leash. Great work!


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

If you watch around where the car approaches and I recall them off the road, I use the "Watch" command to gain there focus and take it away from whatever is happening. It's a really useful command for so many situations. 

Don't forget, this all didn't happen over night. I could not have done that with all three of them 5 months ago. It's taken until the last few months before I could totally trust them. Plus, I have spent a LOT of time on them. two walks a day minimum, 7 days a week, plus only working a few days a week, has given me a lot of time to spend with them. My kids are all grown up and have left the nest, I am single and have no other activities that I have to do. So my time is spent pretty much around the dogs. 

I am sure if there are others who don't have a life, then their dogs would be the same or better


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Cute, ZsaZsa, really obedient. (Cannot believe I misspelled her name in a previous post) 
Are they supposed to watch the car or you? I think you got Ozkar focused on you. Like that look on his face. The environment is ignored no matter what distraction is out there. That's the real meaning of socialization. 



Found this video related to your heel video Building speed on recall. 
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?deskto...d&feature=player_embedded&v=IUVjYreAkIo&gl=CA


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## Lindsey1420 (Jan 28, 2012)

What kind of e-collar did ya all get/use?

I was talking with my husband and a trainer and was thinking about getting one. I have been looking into them but not sure which one to get. I have been working with jack non-stop with walking and still pulls. I walk rain and shine; only unless is it pouring down rain and lighting and when the roads were iced. I'm glad its getting nicer so we can walk morning and night.


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

I told my little lady about this thread, and she had a vid on her phone from earlier this winter before we got the e-collar. 
She's got her prong on, but wasn't pulling with it for a change! lol

I make her sound much worse than she is, but I am strict and expect her to be too perfect sometimes... Although, if she walked like this all the time, you guys wouldn't hear me complain about her so much. ;D

This is Janice and Mischa on a nice stroll.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddNv4EP7xT8&context=C45e24b5ADvjVQa1PpcFNz4seVcFERamxyoXqp7opSyQTrSnq8Tuk=

-Dennis


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

datacan said:


> Cute, ZsaZsa, really obedient. (Cannot believe I misspelled her name in a previous post)
> Are they supposed to watch the car or you? I think you got Ozkar focused on you. Like that look on his face. The environment is ignored no matter what distraction is out there. That's the real meaning of socialization.
> 
> 
> ...


Zsa Zsa is a real sweety. SHe is gentle and affectionate, but will rarely lick you. As for obedient..............mmmmmm she has her typically GSP headstrong moments, but as a general rule, yeah, she is pretty good. 

As for speed of recall, I may cross in the face of commonly accepted practice, but I have a few levels of recall. There is the casual come, which means trot over at your own pace, no hurry, we are just moving on. Then a name and come, is come quickly, then a sharp 'here' is get here yesterday!!!! They know when they hear the sharp 'here' to down tools instantly.  

But once again, I am not a robot dog trainer. I don;t make them sit and stay for long periods to show off or anything like that. To me, the only stay I want is when we are out in the field working birds. When we do that, Astro is the most controlled and works the closest with me, Ozkar is a little more rangey than Astro and Zsa Zsa is typical GSP off in the distance somewhere!!!  But they will all stay with me when I ask, just like in that video. I am working on the hand signals for the off lead heel at the moment. I figure if out hunting, it would be handy to be able to have the dogs heel with a silent command when needed. When I get that one nailed, I'll pop a video up. It'll be like a silent dog film!!


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Wow Dennis, Misha is also cute and obedient V.
Especially like the pictures and clips where the dogs pay attention to the handler under distractions. This dog breed looks very focused when they look up and pay attention. IMO, shows understanding of what dog training is about.


PS nice prongs  
PPS Misha's previous avatar (the one with the yellow towel over her head) was really unique and showed creativity, humor and mischief all rolled in one. Perfectly summed up what these dogs are about, IMO. 
What she's pointing at now ;D e-collar came in handy? (Sorry, but couldn't help it)


Julius


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

This is my style. I really like this guy's way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5InZ0V82AkA&feature=related
My dog really responds under small to medium distractions, working on it to add more distractions.

I still don't have a feel for the way U would reinforce if the dog is not listening under heavy distractions. I understand repetition is the key but how many squirrels can you find at the same place to instill the behavior? 
In my case, this is where the e-collar becomes a somewhat reliable tool. I wouldn't overdo it, though.


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

datacan said:


> Wow Dennis, Misha is also cute and obedient V.
> Especially like the pictures and clips where the dogs pay attention to the handler under distractions. This dog breed looks very focused when they look up and pay attention. IMO, shows understanding of what dog training is about.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Julius, we like to _think_ she is a cutey, and quite obedient these days. 

You have to keep in mind that she is a year older than yours, basically an adult now, and not an intact male. 
Her attention comes back to us for direction fairly often, whereas your guy is probably much more focused on the outside world. Sam is potentially hunting for prey and a mate...

We also pick our battles though. That pic you see is at our trainer and she's onto a chukar or pigeon there. When she is in that mode, nothing in the world is going to turn her attention, and of course, why should it. 
It is all about teaching them to keep you in mind and working for you. Mischa looks to me often while out on our daily off-leash walks, and I try to always give her a command. "come-around", "go-on", "easy", "slowly"... These are some directions I give as she looks up asking me what to do next. As silly as it may seem, it keeps us working together all the time. 
Gunnr taught us that idea, and it is an important tool imo. 

Hunting training really taps into the dogs instinct to work FOR YOU!  and not so much for themselves. 
It teaches them when it's ok to run, and when they have to wait. It teaches them that around the biggest distraction possible...BIRDS!
I'm sure your guy has plenty of focus, it's just a matter of teaching him where that focus should go. 
When you work with a pro trainer, you start to understand why the dog does certain things, and you better understand how to guide him.

I'll tell you, even if you get nothing from a training perspective (which you will), seeing your dog in true work mode will floor you and give you a whole new respect for what it is you own.
Mischa is a different dog when she's in the field. We don't get to see that side of her anywhere else but in a field of hidden birds. The intensity and drive that made her a demon puppy, have become her tools to be a great hunter.

I didn't plan on hunting at all before we got her, but it would be a waste and a shame to not let her work for me... 

Get yourself a good field trainer, and you'll see the transformation.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

I Envy U
I'm not allowed :-[ .... feathers are friends, Sam is only allowed to be a house pet ... wife and even my mother will throw us out. Two houses and Sam won't be welcome anywhere. Penalty for not getting the Poodle they so wanted 
It's the Velcro life for him. 
FuNnY, they don't object training Sam for protection - I don't even need a trainer for that.


*Have to thank Ozkar for reminding me of Paul Owens' training techniques ???


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

Oh jeez. "Not allowed" has no place in a man's vocabulary... lol

If it's the birds they're worried about, there is no need to harm any birds to train a dog.

You may want to inform the ladies that Poodles are hunting dogs just like V's. 

We're on our way down to the sportsman show to stare at guns... 8)


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## dmp (Jan 23, 2012)

I have nothing to offer this thread except my thanks and continued excitement at the coming adventure.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

I just read the last few pages again and am impressed with others results too. However, the E-collar and Prong comments are in here and since this is MY thread I would like to remind any of you newer members who are reading this, that all my results come WITHOUT the need for Prongs, E-collars or harnesses.

Regardless of others opinions, my opinion is that those "tools" mentioned above are totally NOT required to achieve what you want, provided you are prepared to spend some time and have some patience. To me, it is the lazy approach to dog training to use these devices. 

Here in Oz, even hunters are rarely seen using these devices. So even hunting training can be achieved without the need for them....... Food for thought for those considering them....


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## dmp (Jan 23, 2012)

Good on ya, Oz; as it is with dogs and kids - they end up, largely, the product of the effort put into them.



:cheers:


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