# Spay or not without papers?



## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

Rubes will be approaching her second heat shortly so I've been thinking about having her spayed in 3 months (mid season),,,but I'm finding this very hard to come to terms with as she's such a lovely girl in both looks and temperament (apart from an issue with strangers,,,she don't like bolshy people!), yet as she's a "rescue" from an unplanned litter between a smooth and wire so therefore she's technically a cross breed, I'd struggle to sell the pups at anything other than a hefty financial loss,,,however i would love to have a Ruby progeny but herein lies another problem: to line her with a smooth or a wire?
I guess I could do some research, (although the vet that rescued Ruby's litter has put a caveat requesting "no questions asked" but both parents have excellent pedigrees) 
I know I have time on my side but just wondering what you folks would do in this situation.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

My heart says you love Ruby dearly and a little piece of her when she is gone might be a wonderful thing. My head says go find some pure breeds with papers and find a sire and dam you love and grab a pup from there next litter. Tough one mate. The love of a dog is strong. I know when my Phoebe died (Black English Cocker) and the breeder offered me her only son, I jumped at the chance just to have a little of her around still. So I get that. Matter of fact, her son (Called Soli.......something, something, something, Solitary Man, as he was the only boy in a litter of 14 pups to survive.) was the spit out of her mouth. You could not have determined which dog was which, without rolling them over the check out their bits. Soli was looks and personality his mother all over. Even to the point where he was my dog and nobody else could put him to bed at night without getting growled at. If I asked, he happily trotted off by himself. His mum was exactly the same.  God love them. They both died from dialated cardio myopathy. Enlarged heart so you don't have to google it.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

If you breed her, I have dibs on one of the pups!  Seriously... I would love a wire-haired Vizsla and they're hard to find around here. 

I think the key would be getting committed homes lined up before the breeding. If you could find a place for every pup, I see no issue with it. Personally, I say breed her to a wirehair. It's not like she's some kind of mutt. 

Purely my opinion... take it or leave it.


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## SkyyMax (Apr 5, 2012)

Harrigab, please do not be offended by my post - this is my personal opinion.

I have been asked so many times if we were planning to breed our vizslas.
I never even considered this being an option - people adopt/ buy a puppy with the best of intentions, but as we all know, some of them end up in shelters, rescues etc.
Our Skyy is one of these dogs - bounced between several owners, before she came to us...
I could never take responsibility of not knowing what will happen to puppies. 
Skyy was spayed in July, I only wish it was done between heat cycles, not soon after she was in heat.


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

Ruby is such a beautiful, "one of a kind" girl, harrigab, that probably the only way you could hope to get the perfect progeny would be to clone her. ;D ;D ;D


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I don't think I could breed any of my females. I would keep going back and forth on which pup to keep. Then reasoning that I would need to keep them longer, giving me more time to decide. Keep weighting the pros and cons of each pup, till I was too attached to part with any of them.


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## flynnandlunasmom (May 28, 2012)

I am feeling something similar. We're getting ready to spay Luna late in Sept. She will be about 15 months then. She is a such a wonderful dog. She's beautiful, great temperament, smart, obedient, good hunter, has a good pedigree etc. I can't help but think she's a perfect candidate for breeding. My husband is not too keen on the idea. Also, unfortunately Luna's breeder passed away recently (and that is who I would have gone to for advice on breeding her). So it's looking like she will be spayed and we won't breed her. But, a part of me is sad about it. 

PS - I agree with the others about Ruby being one-of-a-kind and I can totally see why you'd want to breed her!


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## DixiesMom (Feb 5, 2009)

[glow=red,2,300]I say this with no disrespect intended.[/glow] 

If your were to breed your girl, what makes you any different from the BYBs that we all dread. Would proper health screenings be done? Probably not, as these aren't purebred pups we are talking about here and the expense is considerable. Would you be breeding for the betterment of the breed? Nope, once again not a pure bred. Where would you find a suitable stud dog? Most responsible stud dog owners will only breed to approved bitches. How would you place the pups, would they come back to you if situations changed for the new owners?

Believe me, I have struggled with whether or not I should breed Reba. She has 9 points toward her conformation title and has titled in obedience and rally and she shows lots of drive in the field. I have people who would love to have a puppy out of her; however, I don't feel that she would offer an improvement to the breed. My younger girl, Maui, is a different story. She is a wonderful example of breed type and has the pedigree to back it up, I have no doubt that she will produce beautiful pups if/when I decide to breed her.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

I see this as a two part question.
First - should the dog be bred? My very simple and short answer is No. I would not suggest or support breeding this dog for many of the same reasons Dixie'sMom previously listed. It will not be registerable in any mainstream registry, though I suppose one could use the same bogus registries as the labradoodles and puganese etc. use. That would put you in violation of most breed clubs in the U.S. as well as the AKC.

You mention it's going to be her second heat - that could put her at anywhere from a year to 20 months or so old, depending on her first and her cycle. That isn't old enough for OFA exams, and in my opinion too young to breed even if it was the best winning pedigreed pure V in the world.

The second part of the question is whether to spay or not. I would hold off until at least two years of age for health, physical and emotional development reasons as have been discussed at length in other threads on the forum. Just because it is a hybrid doesn't mean it's long term health should be jeopardized regardless of whether it will be a breeding specimen or not.

But these are just my opinion as you have requested input from the forum. Ultimately of course, it is your dog, and your decision.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

thanks for the input folks , I've decided against having a litter out of Ruby in the future and will be getting her spayed midway through her next cycle probably. My main reason is similar to what mswhipple touched on, the only way I could get another Ruby would be to clone her lol!


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## SteelCityDozer (Aug 25, 2011)

I back your decision. Having a male and female we always get the question: are you going to breed them? 

Answer: 
1. Dozer is neutered in case you havent noticed. 
2. Dozer has too many health issues we don't need passed along. 
3. I wouldn't be able to say bye to the pups and I don't want to become the crazy V lady !


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I know Ruby's not registered but if you can get information on her bloodlines, you might come close to getting another Ruby. Figure out what are the qualities you like best in her. Then which dogs in her bloodlines carry those qualities?


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