# Puppy wakes up at 4am



## karendm (Nov 19, 2015)

Hi everyone,
We have a 12 week old female Vizsla named Amber. We've had her since she was 9 weeks old and this forum has been so valuable for the information and the stories!! After 3 and 1/2 weeks of having her with us, I would say that our biggest challenge is the crate. She's funny, smart, and doing really well with potty training. The crate: the crate is located on the main floor in the living room, our bedrooms are one floor up. She's usually exhausted starting around 8pm and naps on the couch. Around 930pm, I take her outside for a little walk and potty and then put her in her crate. She complains a little bit but settles down within 5 to 10 minutes. She sleeps until about 3am at which point I take her outside for potty and put her back in her crate. She settles down and goes back to sleep. She then wakes up at 4am and is ready to get out of her crate and stay out! We've tried ignoring her and she proceeds to cry and bark until we get up at 6:30am! Last night, I ended up coming down and sleeping on the couch leaving her in the crate. She quieted down although I'm not sure how much she slept because I kept hearing her move around and whine a little. When I let her out at 7am, she'll usually sleep for 2 hours on the couch.
I really can't be getting up at 4am everyday! My question is: do we give it more time and she'll eventually sleep the whole night in the crate? I know a lot of you suggest moving the crate into the bedroom but we've been reluctant to do that as we know it'll be close to impossible getting her out later and our room is not that big! Also, she rarely naps in the crate during the day, she doesn't really like spending time in there although she'll go in looking for treats or for a toy. When I do crate her during the day because I have to go somewhere, she'll bark pretty much the whole time... Thank you for any help or suggestions you can provide!


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## EchoAndMe (Jan 2, 2016)

We have a 9 week old and it's almost the same situation! I am hoping that we can stay persistent and it will hopefully pay off! Toilet training is going well. It's just that burst of energy at 4am!! If it was just one hour later I wouldn't mind.


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## lyra (Nov 2, 2012)

The problem isn't the crate, the problem is you have a Vizsla puppy! 

I would agree with you, if you move her to the bedroom there will be no going back (both of ours sleep in the bedroom).

I can only think of two choices. You either ignore her until she learns that whining has no effect or you get used to the couch! The first few months can be tough but you have to live with the choices you make now for a long time. It won't be too long before she stops needing to get up for a wee. At least she initially goes back to sleep. I think it is good that you make it clear she stays in the crate. Even if she doesn't settle at the moment, she will learn that there is no getting out and I suspect she will start to sleep through longer.

From a practical point of view, if you are going to be sleeping regularly down stairs for a while, I would think about what you can do to make it comfortable for yourself. But I would do as you are doing, just go down when she won't settle and maybe leave it a little while before you do. I suspect she will soon realise that if she can't get up at 4:00 am she will settle for going back to sleep.

With regards to crate training in the day, I would search the forum as there a lots of posts about it. Our first Vizsla never settled in a crate during the day, our second was a rescue and 16 months old when we got her so we didn't have the problem.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

> She's usually exhausted starting around 8pm and naps on the couch. Around 930pm, I take her outside for a little walk and potty and then put her in her crate


My advise is to try and change her evening routine. If she is wiped out by 8 pm, she is just not tired anymore by 4 am. Vizslas are creatures of habit, so the change may take you a little time. 
Take her out to play earlier in the day, so she is tired, and catches a nap earlier. Your goal is to have her up with you from 8-10 pm, without her being overtired at that time.

I crate puppies during the day when they get tired. Overtime some will start going to the crate on their own. If I need to shower,clean house, or anything where I can't keep eyes on them, its crate time. It keeps them out of trouble, and also helps them learn to settle.


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

It is a case of mind over matter and what you would like to see going forward. Be persistent, be tolerant and be very consistent in what you do. Eventually it will pay off. Ours sleeps in our bed because someone else in the family gave in! Now we have no alone time, no covers, and no room in our queen size bed. Because of my husband's scheduling at work changing during the summer- she has gotten into the habit of going out at 2AM on a regular basis. Dharma has also figured out how to wake my husband by rattling his belt buckle or getting in his face. Me on the other hand- I am a sound sleeper and will do what it takes to get a good night's sleep. This means taking Dharma out before bed and making sure she is tired enough to go through the night.


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

Remember she's still a baby, 12 weeks. I know when you're getting up at 4am it seems like forever, but you've been doing this a brief time and it takes awhile...she's still a baby, her bladder is about the size of a prune, it fills quickly..and she gets lonely, dogs are by nature pack animals which means their instinct is to always be with others. They can learn otherwise, but it takes time and patience.

If you don't want amber in the bedroom, then you have to tolerate her complaints, you're working against instinct and age. It's also a good idea to learn the different vocalizations and what they mean: A potty cry should always be responded to, a need for attention not so much, you want her to learn to self soothe and tolerate being alone. And the hunger whine: You didn't mention when her feeding schedule is...she might be complaining more in the early AM b/c she's hungry..12 week olds should be fed x3/day. Try giving her more at dinner or feed her a little later so she's not hungry as early.


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## karendm (Nov 19, 2015)

EchoAndMe, it's nice to know we're not alone going through this!

Lyra, thank you for your opinion, we will keep at it and hope that it gets better. I'll make the couch more comfortable... 

TexasRed, that's a good idea...I'm going to try to keep her up between 8 and 10pm tonight and see if that makes a difference. We've enjoyed having her snuggle next to us while we watch tv at night but that may also be the problem and why she wakes up so early. As far as napping in the crate, it's a vicious cycle because she ends up not napping and then gets really tired for later in the day and then of course is out in the evening. I wish she would just settle down and sleep when we put her in there during the day. She stayed in the crate for 1 hour and 15 minutes today, quiet but not sleeping. We let her out and then she snuggled with my son on the couch.

MCD, I will keep that in mind! I know that I have to be careful with what I allow right now because it will be forever! I already think that letting her snuggle with us on the couch is making it more appealing to her than sleeping in the crate by herself!

Gingerling, I usually let her out when she cries to make sure it's not a potty issue, when I put her back in the crate if she continues to cry or bark then I assume it's because she would rather be with us. In your experience, how long do you think it will take for her to be ok to sleep alone? She gets fed 4x's a day (50g), the last time being at 6pm. We were doing later (8pm) but she needed to go #2 during the night so the trainer had us pull it in. It's worked for that but she used to wake up at 5:45am... and now she wakes up at 4am...well, I'm realizing that her sleep habit changed around the same time we started feeding her earlier. What time do you think a 12 week old should be fed in the evening? Should I change it back to 8pm?


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

There are no hard and fast rules, Karen, every puppy is different, and you have to find what works with yours by trial and error. So, if she slept later when you fed her later, then go back to that, maybe give her a little more food then, too. Just remember to potty her within 20 mins of feeding so she can poop.

Mine have always slept with me, so I can't answer the "How long till silence" question, but if you continue your routine consistently, it'll be quicker.


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## pippylongstocking (May 21, 2012)

Lyra said:


> I can only think of two choices. You either ignore her until she learns that whining has no effect or you get used to the couch!


I took the 2nd option!
Hardly any quality sleep in the first few months, which, as the owner of a 3 yr old V, I was expecting. However, there is light at the end of the tunnel. Martha, at just over 5 months is sleeping through the night - in her crate, just like big sister Ester. Yay!!


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## karendm (Nov 19, 2015)

Update: the night was a lot better! We fed her at 8pm last night and kept her up until 10pm with a nice walk . She woke up at 3:30am for potty and then again at 5:45am. I put her back in and she was quiet both times until we got up for school at 6:30am. I did stay on the couch next to her at 5:45am because I didn't think she would quiet down otherwise and it was getting pretty close to us getting up. I'll keep doing that as I feel so much better today! Thanks everyone for your advice!
Pippylongstocking, thank you for the information, I'll stay consistent and hope that we can have our good sleep back in 2 months! It's nice to know that it's do-able! 
By the way, did I mention this is our first dog ever (we had a cat for 17 years prior)?? I had no idea puppies and apparently Vizsla puppies were this hard! She's a good girl though and we already love her like crazy!


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

Dharma is my 1st Vizsla too. I have had other dogs in my life and we have 2 cats and 2 guinea pigs currently as well. Puppies are tough in general. All I can say is that Dharma was true to the breed, but maybe worse. It also does not help when one family member consistently breaks the rules and the dog knows it. She's sooo brilliantly smart!


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

Wow. First dog ever? I'd say you're doing great. It's a huge adjustment. 

Just as an FYI, from your description, your V sounds like she's doing great and a real trooper..she seems to "Get it", the difficulty is more in the newness of the whole experience for you, rather than her being an especially difficult V. You're off to a great start, she's really trying hard to please you!


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## nymeria (Jan 18, 2016)

We have a 4 month old vizsla who loves her crate. Ours is also in the main living area wih bedrooms upstairs and the first week was rough but we stuck it out and now she's quiet all night. I think it helped that we spent a lot of time during the day getting her used to it. I'd throw her favorite treats in when she wasn't looking so she always had a nice surprise and spent a lot of time luring in her there with high value treats, praising her when she got in and giving lots of treats, then letting her right out. After a few days of that she started dashing to her crate whenever I pointed to it or whenever she just wanted attention and a treat. I still give her lots of rewards for being quiet in her crate to reinforce, but she will stay in there quietly at night and whenever I leave her alone. She naps in there all the time on her own now, too.


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## karendm (Nov 19, 2015)

Nymeria, thank you for sharing your experience! I try to make her feel good about her crate during the day but I probably need to do that more so I will start putting treats in there without her knowing...which might be difficult since she's always looking at me!  She's doing quite well at night now. She still wakes up a couple of times to go potty but goes right back in her crate and falls asleep. I'm VERY happy about that!! I started putting her in her crate regularly mid-morning for an hour or two and she did better yesterday and quieted down after about 40 minutes. Hopefully today will be even better! I think night time is going well because she knows what to expect but I haven't been as good keeping a routine during the day time since it was Christmas vacation and my husband and the kids were home. They just started back last week! I'm hopeful that it will get better from now on. Everything else is going so well, she's really a joy to be around and so affectionate! So, by 4 months, yours doesn't need to go out at all during the night? Amber definitely needs to go out around 330am but I have a feeling she wakes up at 5:15am just hoping it's time to come out. I still put her back in until a little after 6am. She's 14weeks now so only a couple of weeks behind yours.


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## nymeria (Jan 18, 2016)

I know, they watch us like hawks! I try to get her distracted with toys or food then toss the treats in  You mentioned that you thought couch time might be contributing to the issue. I think you might be right because I had the same problem. I want to cuddle on the couch with her so much, but when I do, the next day she is a lot more insistent about getting attention, and will whine and bark even if I am in the same room. I think she needs more time getting used to our routine and learning to self-soothe before we can mix couch time and crate time/alone time. 

Thinking back, getting her to dash into her crate probably took more like a week or so. I forgot to mention I use clicker training. So when I started, I'd lure her to the crate with a treat and if she put her feet in, I clicked and gave her the treat. That went on for a day or two - just treating her for approaching the crate and putting her feet in. Then I upped the ante and only gave her the treat if she got all four paws in. Then I made her wait a few seconds before she got the treat, then I'd give her a treat when she first got in, shut the door and make her wait a minute, then give her another treat and let her out. Eventually I started adding cues. So just when she'd get in the crate, I'd say "crate", and when she'd come out, I'd say "out". This worked really well and after a week she was dashing in and I'd even have to throw a treat outside the crate to get her to come out. High value treats, lots of praise, and patience worked well for this. 

I will say that it was difficult after the Christmas vacation to re-establish our routine. It took a couple of days. The first couple of days back to work she was pretty demanding during the day because she was used to being with us constantly, despite attempts to give her alone time during the break. 

As far as pottying goes, she makes it through the night, which for us means about 7 hours. She's gone as long as 9 or 10 without a peep, though (sometimes she passes out really early and if you try to take her out she actually tries to resist leaving the crate by digging her paws in and shifting her weight away from you, and she gives you this look as if you are just so, so mean! it's hysterical). I put her down around 10:30 and get up at 5:30 for potty and playtime. Most of the time you can tell she's still asleep and could go longer and usually she likes a cuddle before we go out. When she skips the cuddle I know she has to go. The time between potty breaks during the day is really inconsistent right now though. Sometimes she goes 5 hours (even if I take her out, she won't go) and other times it's 90 minutes.


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## karendm (Nov 19, 2015)

Hi everyone! I wanted to write an update mainly for the people who will be looking through posts for information for their own puppies. I do that a lot going through old posts and seeing the development. Amber is now almost 17 weeks. She's been sleeping through the night for about 3 weeks, thank goodness! She's tired and goes to sleep on the couch around 8pm, we take her out at 9:30pm and then put her in the crate. She now sleeps through until 6:30am (that started around 14 weeks). What a difference a few weeks can make. For those going through the very early stages of puppy life (8 to 12 weeks), have patience and know that it doesn't last long! It gets better very quickly!
Amber is now mostly house-trained. We had a few accidents one day last week and realized that we had neglected to take her out as often as a puppy needs to. She was doing so well that we thought our work was done....well, not so. We have gone back to taking her out frequently, probably once an hour and it's all better again. She's doing better in the crate during the day as well. I think one thing that helped is that we had too many places for her to sleep during the day and so she never slept in her crate even with the door open. Our trainer suggested we get rid of the other sleeping options and move the crate close to the kitchen which is where I am a lot of the time while on the computer and stuff. We also moved her comfy bed that she loves into the crate. She started sleeping in there during the day with the door open while I was close by. Then I started closing the door regularly for small periods of time and came back before she got upset. She now sleeps in there when I'm gone for a little over an hour at a time. I'm hoping to build up to longer eventually but I think we're going in the right direction!
We go walking off-leash in the woods a lot and her recall is very good when nothing is around, it's pretty good when there's one dog around, and it was non-existent when there were two dogs playing and a group of people around. I think that's still good and I'll keep working with her on that. We got her a few brain games, those where the dog has to figure out how to get the treat out. She loves those! We also mostly feed her kibble out of the Kong where she has to push it down to get the food out. Does anyone else do that? I find that it takes longer for her to eat otherwise she wolfs her food down too fast. I still feed her 4 times a day (60g each), which seems like a lot but she's so thin and always seems hungry!! 
She loves meeting other dogs on our walks and I thought it was interesting that she'll see a dog coming up (off-leash also as we're in Germany) and she'll go in a pounce position until they get closer. I think she's gotten a little roughed up playing with well-meaning but big labs in the park and now she likes to assess the situation ahead of time. As far as leash walking, that is definitely a work-in-progress. If I can get her to pay attention to the treats, she'll walk fine, looking at me the whole time and not pulling, but if she's over-stimulated she tends to pull like crazy and then it takes us forever to get somewhere!
Just curious to hear how others with young puppies are doing and if you've found anything in particular that worked or didn't!


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## Tabor (Jan 28, 2016)

Great post, glad things are going so well. As a brand new owner of an 8 week old I enjoy reading posts like this and seeing how other dogs progress. 
We've noticed a huge difference in his crate training over 3 days but there's still a long way to go, so thanks for the rough timeline explaining what we can expect.

Just curious how big is your girl now? Our boy is ~8.5lbs (3.85kg). 


The leash on short walks/letting him out to handle business hasn't really been an issue, he's just too small to pull or go anywhere fast for that matter but we are hoping he gets comfortable enough with the process now that as he grows things wont be too bad. Unfortunately its snowing and COLD here this week so walks haven't been a lot beyond letting him to handle his business and a few additional minutes until he starts to walk himself inside or shivers (even with a jacket).

Just for what its worth, I've heard from an emergency vet about a dog getting a claw stuck inside of one of those giant Kongs you're talking out. They had to use bolt cutters to cut the Kong off. The situation wasn't dire and the dog left totally fine. 
It was the first and only time she'd seen that, so I wouldn't call it a hazard but I guess it's something to be aware of. 
(I know you can find negatives and positives with EVERYTHING that's out there.)


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## karendm (Nov 19, 2015)

Tabor, she's 8.2kg, just today as she got her last vaccinations this morning! I think she's on the small side because my trainer keeps asking us when she's going to grow! We didn't want a big dog so that was one of the things we looked at when looking at the moms. I had not heard about issues with the Kong! I'll have to make sure I keep an eye on her when she's using it so thanks for the warning.
We got Amber when she was 9 weeks old and she was not crazy about going out in the cold!! I think it took a couple of weeks before she'd go out willingly!


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## EchoAndMe (Jan 2, 2016)

Love hearing how everyone's pups are doing. What a difference a few weeks makes. Echo is now 15weeks, not sure of this weeks weight (will know on Wednesday). Shark attacks have virtually gone - until he reaches top gear! We've learnt to observe his behaviour and try to settle him before this happens. We are also encouraging inside time as calm & quiet and outside can be energetic. We only have had one accident inside in the last week which is more a fault of my own. We walk well on a lead. Enjoys some off lead play and meets and greets well. Sleeping from about 8pm until toilet at 9.30-10pm and will then sleep til about 6-6.30am. Occasionally we get a sleep in of 7am ha ha.


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