# Opinions on when to neuter a Vizsla puppy



## Ollie

Hello everyone! 

I am new to the Vizsla forum and I am so thankful to have come across this website to learn what other vizsla owners are experiencing with their dogs. I am a first time Vizsla owner and have completely fallen in love with the breed. 

I have a 6 month old male Vizsla. Our veterinarian mentioned that we should be neutering our puppy around the age of 6 months. Seems alittle young to me, and I keep reading conflicting research. I would greatly appreciate some insight into this topic on when other vizsla owners may have neutered their male pups. Pros and cons would be wonderful.

Thank you!


----------



## harrigab

6 months really is too young imo, others may disagree though. I'd wait till pup is at very least 2 years old, and his bones, plates etc have fully grown.


----------



## harrigab

..oh, and welcome to the forum Ollie


----------



## organicthoughts

Search neutering in the search bar on this forum and you'll find lots of information.

Why do you want to neuter your dog?

Studies have shown the best thing for overall health is to leave male dogs intact.

Having said that, lots of people find it easier to neuter their dog. If you do decide to go that route definitely wait til your dog matures into an adult - at least 2 years of age is my opinion.


----------



## gingerling

Oh, no... 

There's a lot of very convincing evidence that you shouldn't be neutering your dog at all, and that neutering actually increases the risk for cancers and other health issues. 

Why do you think you need to?


----------



## Spy Car

Frankly, if a vet gave me that advice, I'd be looking for a new vet.

There have been three major scientific studies on spay/neuter (the Rottweiler Study, The Golden Retriever Study, and the Visza Study). All three show the devastating consequences of early neutering. 

It is well worth reading these studies, or summaries of the studies. 

Male Vs are much better off being left intact. The scientific evidence validates what those of us with long experience with versatile gundogs have known all along.

Best wishes,

Bill


----------



## MCD

I can't speak for neutering because I have only ever owned females.
We left our girl from being spayed until she was 18 months old and not gone through a heat cycle.
However the vet was pushing to do it anyway at 6 months. My guess is that it is the "RESPONSIBLE PET OWNER" thing to do. It may not have been what our breeder or ourselves wanted to see.


----------



## Vizsla Baby

My vet said to wait until they are at least 3 or 4 years old - to allow the testosterone to fully develop their muscles. She said that they will have fewer orthopedic issues later in life because their muscles are stronger and can support them better.


----------



## kmm090212

It's all up to interpretation. Your vet knows what they know and there are new articles with research stating that it's better to wait. A year should be enough time for the growth plates to close. Everyone on here is incredibly opinionated, myself included, so I would do your own research and make your decision. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Spy Car

A year doesn't get one full muscular development. My intact male V (almost 22 months) looks very different now that he did at 12 months, or even 18 months. Vs are slow to mature, and keep building up their muscular development up to about 3 years at peak. Strong bodies help stabilize joints, which is particularly critical in athletic high energy breeds such as ours. 

The downsides of neutering have been replicated in multiple studies. The evidence is unambiguous. 

Bill


----------



## organicthoughts

Use common sense....

Many vets are not up to date....

Think about what would happen if you neutered a 12 year old boy. That is the same idea of neutering a one year old dog. Think about how much physical and mental development they would miss out on by removing the hormones necessary to mature into an adult man.


----------



## Ollie

Thank you for all your opinions. I definitely thought that 6 months as alittle young, and wanted to see if any other owners have heard the same from their vets. I did some research, and read many articles. Definitely will be waiting awhile (aiming to never having to neuter him, unless it is absolutely necessary for his health and socialization).


----------



## Spy Car

Ollie said:


> Thank you for all your opinions. I definitely thought that 6 months as alittle young, and wanted to see if any other owners have heard the same from their vets. I did some research, and read many articles. Definitely will be waiting awhile (aiming to never having to neuter him, unless it is absolutely necessary for his health and socialization).


I'm aware of only two reasons when neutering is justified for reasons of health. One is in cases of testicular cancer, which is extremely rare. The other is if (at later stages of life) an enlarged prostate is in danger of impeding urine flow. This condition is not totally uncommon, but—because prostate engagement is testosterone dependent—removing the tests almost immediately reverses the condition. In neither case is routine prophylactic neutering justifiable on health grounds.

In terms of behavior, intact dogs are usually friendlier, more social, and more confident. 

With breeds with some behavior issues, like separation anxiety, fear of loud noises, and the like, neutering has been shown to exacerbate the negative behavioral issues. Vs are somewhat prone to these problems in any case. Magnifying the problems is ill advised.

Bill


----------



## Vizsla Baby

spy car is correct, in addition to our two V's, we have a 16 year old dachshund. When he was 11 he developed a huge mass on his prostate. Vet thought it was cancer. Gave him 2 months to live. We had him immediately neutered and gave him some sort of tumor shrinking drug for 30 days. When he went back to the vet for his follow up it was 100% gone. Five years later....he's still here!


----------



## emilycn

Here are the papers on this topic that we often cite (vizsla study, rottie study, golden retriever study) plus a literature review that predates the vizsla/golden retriever studies. If you see anything interesting in the reference sections, just let me know... I'll try to access the PDFs and post them here.


----------



## Spy Car

emilycn said:


> Here are the papers on this topic that we often cite (vizsla study, rottie study, golden retriever study) plus a literature review that predates the vizsla/golden retriever studies. If you see anything interesting in the reference sections, just let me know... I'll try to access the PDFs and post them here.


Thank you so much!

I does appear the link for the Vizsla Study is faulty (I'm getting another copy of the Golden Study following that link). 

Bill


----------



## emilycn

Whoopsie daisies... I've fixed it, I think.


----------



## Spy Car

emilycn said:


> Whoopsie daisies... I've fixed it, I think.


Pun intended? 

Bill


----------



## hecallsmebama

Hi All!

I know this thread is a little old, but it is exactly what I was looking for. I'm new to actually posting on here, even though I've been perusing the forums for months. We got our V boy, Amos, in early February. He's now almost 4 months. We have a vet who likes to neuter at 9 months but seems open and flexible to whatever we want. We hope to not neuter at all and many of your posts have encouraged us on this thinking. I have a couple of questions....

1. Has anyone on here had a vasectomy done on their male? We read about it as an option but also read that finding a trained vet is difficult. The thinking is the dog keeps all his good hormones, but obviously shoots blanks. 

2. If you wait (and I realize this may be a stupid questions) and have to do a full neuter later in life for some reason, do you potentially miss a crucial "window" like with horses or something??? making your dog mean??? 

3. For those of you who haven't neutered your males, what challenges have you faced because of it? I've read all the things that CAN be worse (spraying, humping, aggression) but I'm curious about ACTUAL experiences. I stay home so we have plenty of time and opportunity for training. I guess I'm just afraid some of these "worsened behaviors" would not be correctable because of the hormones. 

Thanks for any input you can offer.


----------



## Spy Car

HeCallsMeBama said:


> Hi All!
> 
> I know this thread is a little old, but it is exactly what I was looking for. I'm new to actually posting on here, even though I've been perusing the forums for months. We got our V boy, Amos, in early February. He's now almost 4 months. We have a vet who likes to neuter at 9 months but seems open and flexible to whatever we want. We hope to not neuter at all and many of your posts have encouraged us on this thinking. I have a couple of questions....
> 
> 1. Has anyone on here had a vasectomy done on their male? We read about it as an option but also read that finding a trained vet is difficult. The thinking is the dog keeps all his good hormones, but obviously shoots blanks.
> 
> 2. If you wait (and I realize this may be a stupid questions) and have to do a full neuter later in life for some reason, do you potentially miss a crucial "window" like with horses or something??? making your dog mean???
> 
> 3. For those of you who haven't neutered your males, what challenges have you faced because of it? I've read all the things that CAN be worse (spraying, humping, aggression) but I'm curious about ACTUAL experiences. I stay home so we have plenty of time and opportunity for training. I guess I'm just afraid some of these "worsened behaviors" would not be correctable because of the hormones.
> 
> Thanks for any input you can offer.


All the dogs I've owned have been intact males. I've never opted for a vasectomy, but would certainly consider it as the best sterilization option. As you say, finding a vet trained to do this simple procedure isn't always easy. My hope is that the reality of the harms caused by neutering will change the training in veterinary schools (and continuing vet education) so hormone sparing alternatives will become widely available as an option.

Generally, especially with breeds like Vizslas, the behavioral differences in intact males are positives. Vs are rarely domineering and aggressive by nature, and those with "problems" generally have issues tied to "fear anxieties" which are usually made worse by castration. The added confidence of intact male Vs is usually a positive thing, and they are typically very diplomatic with other dogs.

I have know some individual dogs (most often from working breeds or fighting breeds) that have been poorly socialized and poorly trained where the hormones don't help the domineering behaviors. So it is not a 100% issue on behaviors with all dogs. My understanding (no experience here) is the removal of testes and hormones has a quick effect, positively or negatively.

Each dog I've owned (all versatile gundogs) would mark outside on tress, etc., but never in a problematic sort of way. None has ever marked indoors. 

Humping is generally not an issue, but there are a few females (who I suspect may have some small parts of the ovaries intact) that my V will mildly annoy, and I have to correct. On the other hand, I see neutered dogs (and even females) who hump as well. 

The biggest issue is that its possible that a neutered dog might launch into an unprovoked attack on an intact male. While rare, it can happen. 

None of my dogs, current Vizsla included, has ever been aggressive. He is incredibly sweet natured with people and other dogs, and especially kind with little ones. Behaviorally I could not hope for better.

Bill


----------



## gingerling

HeCallsMeBama said:


> Hi All!
> 
> I know this thread is a little old, but it is exactly what I was looking for. I'm new to actually posting on here, even though I've been perusing the forums for months. We got our V boy, Amos, in early February. He's now almost 4 months. We have a vet who likes to neuter at 9 months but seems open and flexible to whatever we want. We hope to not neuter at all and many of your posts have encouraged us on this thinking. I have a couple of questions....
> 
> 1. Has anyone on here had a vasectomy done on their male? We read about it as an option but also read that finding a trained vet is difficult. The thinking is the dog keeps all his good hormones, but obviously shoots blanks.
> 
> 2. If you wait (and I realize this may be a stupid questions) and have to do a full neuter later in life for some reason, do you potentially miss a crucial "window" like with horses or something??? making your dog mean???
> 
> 3. For those of you who haven't neutered your males, what challenges have you faced because of it? I've read all the things that CAN be worse (spraying, humping, aggression) but I'm curious about ACTUAL experiences. I stay home so we have plenty of time and opportunity for training. I guess I'm just afraid some of these "worsened behaviors" would not be correctable because of the hormones.
> 
> Thanks for any input you can offer.



I think you'll find the overall consensus around here is that you shouldn't neuter, and this is supported by a lot of very respected research into the health benefits of keeping males intact. Not only is there an increase in health issues when dogs are neutered..sperm is one product, but far more importantly, so is testosterone which is a vital hormone for overall metabolism and health. The idea of a vasectomy is frankly bizarre to me, there'd be no need for them to "Shoot blanks", they really don't need sex the way humans do. Just leave 'em where they are.

I have had 3 non neutered males, they looked great.....firm, toned, muscular....neutered dogs look polymorphous perverse...the loss of that "Masculine" look, flabby, gangly, their coats seem less vibrant as they age...I had no prostate issues, and most importantly, no aggression at all..they are Vizslas, after all..and typically aggression results from poor socialization rather than being intact. The humping is a dominance issue, they don't spray or do any of the nasty stuff you've apparently been lead to believe. 

I always get into it with vets about this issue, and my admittedly very cynical conclusion is that they push sterilization b/c it's a money maker for them. All of the issues they report are either over exaggerated, or the result of poor training and socialization. 

The good thing is that if you wait and really find it intolerable (Doubtful), you can always elect to have it done. But to do it without experiencing first hand how your dog is with his testicles puts him at an unfair health disadvantage.


----------



## Spy Car

I don't think people look to vasectomies because they plan on opening up their dog's sex lives, but to reduce the odds of unwanted accidental pregnancies to near zero. 

Bill


----------



## hecallsmebama

Amos is cautious-natured, so far. He's not really shown any aggression...a few tantrums here or there and he has trouble behaving when he's overtired like any toddler, but he's a sweet boy. We do have the concern of him running off to the smell of a female in heat when he's old enough to be drawn to that. Right now we do not have a fence. We just take him out back and let him run, staying out there to ensure he does't leave the property. The plan is to get an underground fence, but I've read that Vs can dart through those if desperate enough. Although, Amos is very sensitive now, so it's hard to imagine him darting the fence, but I guess he could get more daring and tough as he gets older. And yes, the vasectomy idea was just to make sure if he ever did leave our sight, he couldn't cause someone else trouble.


----------



## texasred

Almost every male I have owned has stayed intact. I'm also around a lot of gun dogs, and they are also intact. I don't see aggression in these dogs, or them trying to hump other dogs. 
Most people don't tell you, but even neutered dogs are interested in females in heat. It doesn't rule their world, but they dang sure get frisky. And will mate with a willing female. 

I have a male with a not so nice temperament. I was never going to breed him, and had two intact females in the house. At 3 years old I had him neutered. Two changes in him after neutering. First it cut down on his one track mind around a female in heat. Second it made him less tolerable of older intact males. He works (hunting ) fine around them, but does not want to interact with them. He will only play with females, young puppies of either sex, or neutered dogs. 

I think some people neuter because intact dogs are not allowed at some daycares, or have a problem finding dog walkers willing to take a intact dog.


----------



## texasred

Here is a link for owners like researching studies on spay/neuter.
http://www.cpt-training.com/recent-research-raises-concerns-regarding-early-spayingneutering#_ftn22


----------



## lyra

We have friends with an intact male Vizsla and he is one of the sweetest dogs I know. One of our girls is staying with him while we have a short holiday.

They say the only problem they get is with neutered dogs - maybe it's jealousy!

I don't believe neutering is pushed by vets just to make money. I think it is more that it is drummed into them at Veterinary schools to help reduce unwanted puppies (and on that score has been very successful).

Yes it can be very difficult to find vets that will perform hormone sparing procedures. We had terrible difficulty finding it for one of our bitches. The vet we did eventually find had never done one before but was an experienced surgeon and understood our reasons for wanting it. Hopefully the situation will improve over time as vets become more knowledgeable about the disadvantages of neutering.


----------

