# New Collar



## CrazyCash (Jul 12, 2012)

I have struggled with walking my two at the same time because they both apparently think they are sled dogs and want to drag me down the street. I had resisted pinch collars for awhile because quite frankly I wasn't really sure how to use them and they looked so intimidating. After Penny went to boot camp this summer, she came home with a pinch collar and I was shown how to use it properly. Well walking her now is night and day, so that meant that Cash got a pinch collar too. Our walks now are so much more pleasant and I have to say that I love the pinch collar - no more pulling and no more choking themselves with their other collar. 

Now our walks are better, but I do get crazy looks from some people because I have these two big dogs with these big crazy looking pinch collars. I found this leather pinch collar online and it just came in the mail tonight - I was excited about this collar because from the outside it looks like a regular collar, but it should work the same as a pinch collar. I haven't used it yet, but I wanted to see if anyone else has ever used one of these? It looks a little medieval to me (which is what made me originally shy away from a pinch collar), but I'm hoping that it will work just like a metal pinch collar. We'll see...


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Like anything new, work Cash with it without distraction first. Let him get use to the feel of it before you walk them together.


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## MeandMy3 (Feb 27, 2013)

I like the looks of this. We use pinch collars with all three of our dogs because when they are together, they can be a bit unruly.  Please post a review when you have used it.


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

I suggest you wear that first 

and zero hate

open talks on options earned

working mates handler, field and show

or any back yard takes pride, mucho time spent and care and time served

Funny 15 pointers never needed or had to use any pain based products?

and I was not lucky 

I was willing and ready to serve.

I use a whistles some remote high end vocal units I voice record gains and losses and hand commands and simple directions

and Not weak words all will come with

My Reds will meet any group to share the gifts earned 

and anything you would not use on your "kids" will never meet my mates 

all have free will and choices

mine are working harder, love and handling any application with trust and respect

Your life trail mix will match almost any dogs growth

Each one of these gifts last far longer then pain based products

and not more words please mercy never a life train mix just words

meet us fair in the raw real remote fields of play 

Choices not a Chance 

Have a Great day


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## mrmra (Jul 18, 2013)

I think Rudy has the luxury of living in the raw, real remote fields of play -- if you live in the city and are a weekend warrior for the outdoors, a controlling collar may be more of a necessity if you want to bike/jog together.

Anybody have any experience with the ThunderLeash, by the ThunderShirt folks? 

http://www.thundershirt.com/Product/ThunderLeash.aspx?

Or Cesar Millan's Illusion Collar?

Prongs only hurt if the dog pulls, which they learn not to. It's not like constant pain. It's more like sending your kids to their room for bad behavior. Or spanking.

E-collars work that way, too -- my breeder used one for his Vizsla hunting dogs and said he only had to zap them once or twice for them to learn. He zapped himself first to figure out what level he was comfortable using on his pups.

Negative reinforcement can be effective. A kid raised with only love can turn into a spoiled brat too, ya know (Rudy, you sound like a child of the 60s!?) -- but now we're really digging into apples and oranges arguments. If a prong or e-collar helps make a dog into a better trained animal with a minimal of correction, sounds like a good idea. If they just keep yanking on it or you need a ton of zaps, something is wrong.

Anyway, I've been wondering about Vizsla reactions to prong collars, so thanks for sharing!

Really curious about the ThunderLeash/Illusion Collar, btw.

Cheers,
-mra-


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## mlwindc (Feb 8, 2013)

mrmra said:


> I think Rudy has the luxury of living in the raw, real remote fields of play -- if you live in the city and are a weekend warrior for the outdoors, a controlling collar may be more of a necessity if you want to bike/jog together.
> 
> Anybody have any experience with the ThunderLeash, by the ThunderShirt folks?
> 
> ...


MRMRA - we haven't used the thunderleash/illusion collar, but our trainer did show us how to loop the leash around the dog's waist so that it basically accomplishes the same thing. It's hard to describe, but basically you have the collar/leash at the very top (back of the head), run the leash down and behind the right leg, around the waist, and then thread the leash under the collar/leash tab. We did this using a regular 6 foot leash when Wilson was small (say, less than 40 lbs) and basically, the pulling interrupts his breathing/diaphragh to get his attention and discourage pulling. 

In addition to this, we also used a martingale and a slip collar and truth be told, it wasn't until we used the prong that we really saw results. Wilson is pretty good at heel, but if there's another dog, he completely LOSES HIS MIND. We live in the city, lots of busy streets, and have a four year old too, so the prong was the best way to keep him safe. There's a lot of prong hate, but I simply do not have months and years to work on getting Wilson to heel properly. Every walk was becoming a struggle with him and there really are not any off leash options (aside from parks, etc). So, to get him walked even just to use the bathroom was becoming a battle if and when other dogs appeared (and we live in a very dog friendly neighborhood). At 10 months (we introduced the prongs at 6 months), Wilson can now be walked on a martingale collar or a slip collar. Sometimes he acts like an a**hole, so I put the prongs back on him to remind him to heel and not go lunging across the street after other dogs. We used a trainer to help us get comfortable with proper usage, which I highly recommend.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Prong, pinch, slip and e collars are all tools that have been around for a long time. There is nothing wrong with using them correctly.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

BIG YES to the prongs... used correctly! :-*

But in the hands of experienced trainers.... hands are the best tool.


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

mlwindc said:


> ...our trainer did show us how to loop the leash around the dog's waist so that it basically accomplishes the same thing. It's hard to describe, but basically you have the collar/leash at the very top (back of the head), run the leash down and behind the right leg, around the waist, and then thread the leash under the collar/leash tab. We did this using a regular 6 foot leash when Wilson was small (say, less than 40 lbs) and basically, the pulling interrupts his breathing/diaphragh to get his attention and discourage pulling.


I think this video shows what you're describing. It's called a half-hitch. Skip ahead to 2:40 to see it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc_sJJ04tPA


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## CrazyCash (Jul 12, 2012)

Oops - I didn't mean to start the great collar debate again. My feeling is that everyone raises their dogs and their kids the way they think is best, so no judgement here on what people choose is best for them. We all love our dogs and whatever works for each of us to be able to enjoy our dogs and give them the exercise they need, seems like a good thing. 

I'm going to give the new collar a try tonight, so I'll let you know how it goes.


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

Mrmra 50's very early and name it I faced it Proudly and still flexing and I cracked more mellons globally for cash and carry

then this gigs has shopping carts 

a stone highly trained thrill killer for years

city, fields ,. $hiters matters little the talents ahead of me

and there is much used many years

that sucks that's why we have nearly destroyed much of Mother God and earth

I can walk down New York city with my dogs

and my reflexions are earned

crack heads kids I took the risks

kicked in some doors

Skills and massive work benches from earned events train mates

and if You wont wear the goof ball no mercy tool then its far Not grand enough for your dogs

Put the $ name the locations

like I said all these posts very little pictures of showing real life trails of Greatness for mates

Killing and hurting is easy

trust me

earning respect and admiration over time much harder

Like sheep processed foods feed there needs not earned foods

Its your dog your choices and I am not easy on any of mine

We win we stack meat not words

Grease the wheel

out thinking any normal process and normal bore me like minute 1 bad'

using real skills being your own vet

Beats pain induce choices and lasts a lifetime

its another Global sell out

consume it then throw it away

earn it respect from working harder makes the few a Rockstar

and make it a great day for 1

Don't care who you are zero threats

anyone puts any hurting tool due to there lazy and cannot earn it over time and real applied skills and want it THIS VERY MINUTE IS A CUPCAKE

I Would walked over or through like grade F Butter

Never drugged never smoked never drank

We ate the globe passions and great train and gain folks were are leaders

and back then they beat the $hit out of you for not saying Sir

and like the kid who I admitted shot over his pup far too young

None are moving a 6ft 5 265lb war machine for less

the risks are extreme

I choose to help care and support and show other options

and I am a child proudly stating of great extreme abuse

I took it like a Man age 3 on

and I put out his lighters, whips, beating straps and tied to poles begging for mercy at age 18

I gave and showed him none

He was a coward and He went fast

Every time you induce pain on a dog try and watch the circus hooking the better then great elephants why losers cheer and clap

those tools of cowards hurting them deep for cheap sell out tickets for goofs

animals need freedom and guidelines rules and tools and a Lead Wolf

the tools I posted work

still watch the great elephants

They feel it all

and they have no options

A pc is very fake

I try for the 1 percent

With great respect my hands my tools and my mind most laugh at I can humble all of those

Call me out make it real and bring lots of $

KO in 1 for less

they matter more to me

all these pointers was I just lucky and each dog blessed?

they masked the gifts given to them.

My Uncle hunted labs he used (leather hole punches on there ears)

they screamed for valleys and he used them on 1 too many dogs a big mistake

I warned him as well

No more

He stopped hunting and hurting

broken hands heal poorly

typing skills or lack of them don't relate to education in some cases

and like you hand work, whistles , lead robes and voice commands and so much more don't have to be used or liked

and I will never respect a pain tool to make anyone or anything follow a true leaders event


name the spot leave the weenie pc out of the education 

One of the worse things and sell outs that hurt all are kids standing in malls texting nothing but bs and lead by bigger goof balls to not give kids choices or chances

at life

Globe 4x name the spot will post her up

no hate from me

and don't care who reads this

it came from within and options ;D

NATURE IS A HEALER AND A GIFT

AND 100 PERCENT TRUTH I KILLED SO MUCH

I COULD TAKE OUT THIS SERVER 

I WOULD RATHER AT TIMES NOW TAKE SOME PICTURES AND WATCH MY BELOVED MATES WORK AND GO

JUST A LADS CHOICE

AND A GREENIE F NO

THRILL KILLER

TYSON YOU HEAR ME KNOW?

Breath from the core it matters 

Hate creates body inflammation ;D


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

People see prong and pinch collars with blunt rivets and automatically think medieval thoughts. In truth it requires less pressure than a flat collar. So there is less chance of damage to the dogs trachea. 
Things aren't always what they appear to be.
Cash has a collar that looks very simple, no prongs or blunt rivets. Most people would never take a second glance at it, or know what its used to control. 

There is probably only one other member (datacan) of the forum that knows why its used on certain dogs.


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

A much better option and zero pain to induce training gains

the dog is not learning $hit

its reacting to pain induced repeated events and behaviors

of course they get it faster fear pain and the central nervous system is near 

Come on up let me install any of this Bs on any of you

will lead walk some fun

and you will learn with me as the task master

Use your mind hands and education not fake sell out circus tools

earn your wins not induce them

done talking Pc fantasy flag football

Name the location make it real $ helps put a date on it

BigPappapump loves Showtime

I will bring a 5 month 3 week pup only

will work will have some fun

and I will lead Her In and there wont even be a leash coming in

Lets dance

all you Pro handlers and Bring your Pro ball draft cards 

being humbled by hand commands and only hand made whistles

then what?

a Time out

Nah the meat stacker comes in with pain ;D

I stand I can win without pain and still get progressive positive results with my actions and earned tool box

Not PC words

Lets pump it up

and all the bully bs with myself and Data

I am calling him out first

Your skills against mine

my dime

I stand for the mates

pain induced training is for cowards, tards and cupcakes

Take the bet

Bring your best

actions will destroy you not fake goofy words

LOCATIONS TIMES AND DATES?

and Deb please they been doing it for years

so have men of faith raping kids and the churches big pay offs

Time served I think

Data I know your near the pc

man up chime in

lets film it all and make this real

Your skills and earned events

against mine

not for you or me

For the breed

and will post who drove nails and wins

and who was reduced to bubble gum

this is a fight for the breed not a ego

call me out 

Finally something Viewed by each and all real raw and lasting


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

;D what do prongs, cupcakes, and harnesses have in common?

Answer: Off leash freedom... All you need is LoVe...


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Craz - got the same collar a year ago 4 PIKE - it works - used it 4 2 weeks & he was back on track - most important - pinch or choke ( I hate them ) put it on them correctly !!! looking at the pup - lead in left hand collar in the right - should look like the letter P - if not the pressure will not release - I only introduce correction aids at 9mo 2 a year - they have 2 have the basics of what the command is - the pinch collar like the E collar is 4 a quick correction done immediately - if the pup is pulling against the pinch collar U you are using it incorrectly


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