# Tail docking?



## VladT (Aug 1, 2021)

Greetings all,
We are in the process of hunting for a Vizsla. Pre-owned or new. We have had dobbies for decades and as my wife is Hungarian we thought to get a Vizsla. All of our dobbies have been "natural" ears AND tail. (Only two new all others "pre-owned").

We had thought the European standards for all critters of this type was to be 100% natural.. ears and tails. Correct ?? I looked at one breeder site which indicated the tail docking at a couple of weeks (like dobbies). We feel the natural look is perfect for these types of critters. 

I have heard all the excuses for docking: they trash tables with wagging tails. Broken tails are painful (ours never did) Long tails get caught in brush while in the woods. No not really. It appears that most US Vizsla's are "half docked". This looks ok but again why?
Our two Great Danes never had any issues with long tails.

Comments ? 
Thanks in advance for your input.


----------



## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I don’t think people would really care if their vizslas tail cleared a coffee table. 
They do care if happy tail, causes them to have hard to heal injuries. That may, or may not lead to part of the tail being amputated.
I agree, it does not happen to every vizsla with a full tail, but it does happen. Docking the tail of a puppy at a few days old, is not the same as a tail amputation of a adult dog.

I’m a do what suits you type of person.
My own dogs are docked, but the full tail look just as pretty. It will be harder to find a responsible breeder that does not dock in the US, but with enough research you should be able to find one.


----------



## Dan_A (Jan 19, 2021)

Some think docking is cruel treatment of animals, others feel it the best path to avoiding painful and difficult to heal injuries later in life which is the logic that I subscribe to. These dogs are super energetic and have a serious case of the wiggle butt/tail mode. I feel a small procedure properly done at just a few days old is not cruel or even painful for the pup.

It kinda sounds like you already made up your mind by shrugging off what most pro-dock people explain as their reasoning.

I'll also have to say just because something is "European standard" doesn't make it the only option used to judge your decisions, unless you are planning on showing your dog in Europe.


----------



## Gabica (Jan 20, 2018)

i from Hungary too, living in the US and i agree with the docking and declaw concept. actually they are not done at couple of weeks, but at 2-3 days, when the puppies are still not awake and their memory of pain is very short. they also should not be half docked, but only 1/3 should be taken off. if you see a half docked vizsla, that is a red flag, good breeders spend the money on proper vets who know how much docking should be done. 
docking significantly lowers the injury possibility and they can still use the tail to navigate on the field when they `zigzag` during hunting. i have seen some ugly ones with Hungary import dogs, where the tail had to be amputated later on, now THAT is painful for them and the experience can change not only their body balance but their personality too...
the declaw is needed for certain breeds for their work and won`t be removed for that reason, not here in the US either. for vizslas again they don`t serve any purpose, and create an additional injury possibility, hence the removal, again at a max 3 days of age. 
i see it as the same precaution as not letting than jump from more than shoulder height till their growth plates are closed, or not spaying/ neuter at least until fully mature. u will have different schools of thought on that topic too, at the end of the day, you have to know what you can identify yourself with.


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2020)

Hi there!

I really do believe it is your option and everything that has been said above is spot on. I just wanted to add that Vizslas with recurrent tail injuries exist, they are not a myth and I am the happy parent of one of those Vizslas. The tip just breaks off and there is plenty of blood. It happens quite often, although we are very mindful about being wiggly indoors. 

I was very much against docking. I think my pup is beautiful with his full tail, but he is injured very often. I know this is not the case for all of them, but for Oscar, having a full tail has been painful and an inconvenience. The tip of his tail will never be the same and I am so scared that one day it will be so bad that he will need surgery, until then, we are just extremely careful with making him happy indoors. The outdoor part where he just accidentally hits a tree with his tail cannot be controlled as easily, unless you just deny the pup all the adventures, funs and purposes that he longs for and was bred for. 

There are many Vizslas that never have this problem, but then there are some that do. We just managed to reduce the injuries, but every other month he still manages to bang his tail so hard against a wall, or a tree and the tip gets broken again. I think the opinions on this will vary depending on your standpoint. From where I am standing, a docked tail would have spared my Oscar of tens of injuries and days of pain.


----------



## organicthoughts (Oct 9, 2012)

There is a few provinces in Canada where vets do not dock anymore.

I prefer a docked tail for the reasons mentioned by others, most importantly that the tip of the tail is exceptionally vulnerable to injury.


----------



## Dan_A (Jan 19, 2021)

So OP , what is your train of thought now? Just curious!


----------



## PhilipL (Sep 28, 2018)

I see lots of Vizslas here locally in the UK, one owner has 5 working girls, another has 2 male rescues, then there is my own Big Rafa. None have docked tails.


----------



## B4rks (Aug 4, 2019)

In all my years of owning dogs never have I known a dog to have a tail injury, it's so rare there is simply no need to do it, even working dogs very rare

Same with declawing a dog, there is no reason to do it other than an the owner thinks its a good idea (it isn't) and probably they don't like getting an odd scratch here and there. Declawing results in a gradual weakening of leg, shoulder, and back muscles in dogs and should be avoided unless they have an infected claw. Anyone who tells you different doesn't know what they are talking about.

In fact its the same with humans without a big toe nail it affects gait and balance.


----------



## organicthoughts (Oct 9, 2012)

B4rks said:


> In all my years of owning dogs never have I known a dog to have a tail injury, it's so rare there is simply no need to do it, even working dogs very rare
> 
> Same with declawing a dog, there is no reason to do it other than an the owner thinks its a good idea (it isn't) and probably they don't like getting an odd scratch here and there. Declawing results in a gradual weakening of leg, shoulder, and back muscles in dogs and should be avoided unless they have an infected claw. Anyone who tells you different doesn't know what they are talking about.
> 
> In fact its the same with humans without a big toe nail it affects gait and balance.


I've seen many pointers and V's with long tails have brutal injuries to their tail tips while hunting


----------



## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

Tail docking and dew claw removal are sources of discussion that will never go away. I have seen some pretty good injuries to dogs resulting from both. Most dogs that have full tails and dewclaws will live their entire life without incident.

These are a portion of the Breed Standard for the Vizsla in the US. I know that other countries have differing breed standards, but in the US, if a breeder is breeding to maintain the standard, they will follow the standard as it applies to tails and dewclaws.

*"Tail*_* set just below the level of the croup, thicker at the root and 
docked one-*_*third off. "*

"Forelegs straight and muscular with elbows close. Feet cat-like, round and
compact with toes close. Nails brown and short. Pads thick and tough. *The removal of dewclaws, 
if any, on front and rear feet, is strongly recommended, *in order to avoid injury when running in
the field."

I won't say that it is right, or wrong, just the standard.


----------



## Bob Engelhardt (Feb 14, 2012)

B4rks said:


> ...
> Same with declawing a dog, there is no reason to do it other than an the owner thinks its a good idea (it isn't) and probably they don't like getting an odd scratch here and there. Declawing results in a gradual weakening of leg, shoulder, and back muscles in dogs and should be avoided unless they have an infected claw. Anyone who tells you different doesn't know what they are talking about.
> 
> In fact its the same with humans without a big toe nail it affects gait and balance.


Just to confirm: are you talking about the *dewclaw*? The dewclaw is non weight-bearing and its presence or absence is not going to affect the leg, shoulder, & back. Not the same as the human toe at all.


----------



## organicthoughts (Oct 9, 2012)

Bob Engelhardt said:


> Just to confirm: are you talking about the *dewclaw*? The dewclaw is non weight-bearing and its presence or absence is not going to affect the leg, shoulder, & back. Not the same as the human toe at all.


There's actually a lot of data that has been published recently showing that the dewclaw has a purpose and sporting dogs who have it removed are more predisposed to wrist injuries


----------



## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

While I prefer my bird dog have the dew claws removed, they do serve a purpose.





What Are Dewclaws? | Do Dog Dewclaws Need to Be Removed? | PetMD


What is the dewclaw on a dog? Does it have a purpose, or should it be removed to prevent later problems or injuries? Learn the answers to these questions and more with our expert veterinarian, here.



www.petmd.com


----------



## organicthoughts (Oct 9, 2012)

texasred said:


> While I prefer my bird dog have the dew claws removed, they do serve a purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


TR, check out this article by Dr. Christine Zink https://www.woodhavenlabs.com/documents/dewclaws-injury.pdf


----------



## Bob Engelhardt (Feb 14, 2012)

Bob Engelhardt said:


> Just to confirm: are you talking about the *dewclaw*? The dewclaw is non weight-bearing and its presence or absence is not going to affect the leg, shoulder, & back. Not the same as the human toe at all.


I stand corrected - the dewclaw is weight-bearing sometimes and has a function, sometimes. However, I still dispute, or let's say I'm skeptical, that "Declawing results in a gradual weakening of leg, shoulder, and back muscles in dogs ..." (B4rks).


----------



## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

organicthoughts said:


> TR, check out this article by Dr. Christine Zink https://www.woodhavenlabs.com/documents/dewclaws-injury.pdf


I’ve read that article in the past.
I’d like to see more research (actual clinical studies), before being fully convinced.


----------



## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

@organicthoughts 
Baby aspirin was considered perfect safe for babies for soo many years. Until we found out it was not. They change the name from baby aspirin, to low-dose aspirin. 
Grain free dog food hit the market. Many people thought you were a horrible pet owner, if you weren’t feeding it. Then we found out some of the grain free food was lacking a much needed ingredient for dogs.
There is so much information on the internet, and not all of it has veterinary clinical trials to back up the claims. Vets would have to start seeing/reporting a big difference in injuries. Noting if the dogs had dewclaws removed or not. Only then would one of the veterinary schools, consider doing clinical trials. 

I’m not a
People need to do as I do type person.
I would rather share information, and have them decide for themselves.


----------

