# Walking and peeing



## Racer (Apr 23, 2012)

Hi all! I've actually have read this forum quite a few times and have received a ton of valuable info. I'm hoping someone may have a bit of insight on this issue.

I have a 6 month intact male V named Racer. I've had him since he was 9 weeks old. He's not only my first V, but he's also my first dog. And if that wasn't enough, he's also a city slicker!

He's a pretty well behaved pup. About a month ago, during puppy class, I noticed he was walking and peeing at the same time. The following week, his daycare contacted me to let me know that he suddenly starting to have accidents inside. They also noticed he was doing the walking peeing too. And later that week, he started to pee inside at home. The people at day care thought he may have a UTI, so with my permission, they took him to my vet. Actually, my vet wasn't there that day, so it was another vet. They gave him a limited amount Clavamox and took a urine sample. He seemed to be getting better, but the tests came back neg, and they said I should stop giving him the antibiotics. They detected elevated proteins, so I had them run another test on the urine (they claimed they still had enough and the sample was good) as well as a blood test, which both came back neg. They were insistent it was a behavioral problem and said next steps would be an MRI. Which sounded way overboard to everyone (including the breeder and daycare).

A few days later, he started having accidents at daycare again. The people at daycare (they happen to own V's) really thought it was a UTI because this was very atypical of him. He figured out how to take himself outside within days at their place. And at home, he's probably had maybe 10 accidents total. 

They took him to their vet. They gave him another prescription of Clavamox and took a urine sample. Tests came back neg again, but it was high in blood cells, which they said could be indicative of some infection. I kept him on the full duration of the meds. The accidents did stop. The newer vets explained that not all UTIs culture, and he could have one of those strains.

The other day he started doing the walking peeing again, but no accidents.

This has stumped us all, since no one has really heard of this walking and peeing.

Has anyone heard/seen this sort of behavior before?

Sorry that this post was soooo long.

Thanks!


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

Hi Racer, this certainly sounds like an infection. As the peeing stopped when he was on the antibiotics the peeing as he walks is not behavioural, it has to be that the infection has returned. My guess is that he will start having accidents again as the infection takes hold.

Did they culture the urine - it might be that the vet needs to use a different type of antibiotic for this infection, or he needs a prolonged dose to clear the infection up. 
I had a UTI once and it took ages to clear up.... always coming back after two or three days after the antibiotics finishing. Then they did a culture and put me on the right type of antibiotics and that cleared it up.

I would go back to which ever vet you feel happiest with and push for an answer. Do keep us posted as I would like to know the outcome to the problem. :-X


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## Racer (Apr 23, 2012)

hotmischief, thanks for the info ! They did culture the urine at both places and they both came up neg. Even though he seemed to get better after the antibiotics, it isn't clear if that was completely why. I only say this, because everyone started being more vigilant in taking him him out to pee. 

His breeder thought that maybe he had some kidney trauma. Before this happened, he did get rough housed by a large bernese. 

We're all on the watch to see if he has any accidents...


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

Racer, I would be interested to know whether you think this is a behavioural problem? I am presuming that at 6 months he was dry in the house before all this started? Is he bright and eating well?

"They took him to their vet. They gave him another prescription of Clavamox and took a urine sample. Tests came back neg again, *but it was high in blood cells, which they said could be indicative of some infection.* I kept him on the full duration of the meds. The accidents did stop. The newer vets explained that not all UTIs culture, and he could have one of those strains."

The fact that he had blood in his urine is not normal. Perhaps he does have an infection that won't culture - either way you have the same symptoms returning. If this was my puppy (and knowing how painful UTIs are) I would take him back to the vet and ask for another test, to check that there was no blood in the urine now, and perhaps more antibiotics to see if it the peeing stops again. Maybe that would give you an answer before putting him through further tests.

I don't know what other members think, but it isn't normal for even an unpotty trained puppy to pee as he walks - and my gut says there is a medical reason for this. I am sorry if this is not what you want to hear but this is what I think based on the information you have given.


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## redrover (Mar 17, 2011)

I had a cat with many urinary issues--they sure are frustrating! I'd say something is definitely wrong with your pup. If he's peeing while walking, I'd say he is incontinent in one way or another. I know this would be difficult to tell, but...does he seem to know he's urinating? The question is whether it's him not realizing he has to pee and it suddenly happens, or he's just incapable of holding it in any longer (that's not technically incontinence, since he's aware he has to go). My guess would be the former, just because you think he'd squat or lift a leg once he realized he had to urinate.

How much is he peeing when he does this? Just a few dribbles? A normal amount? A lot?

Have the vets checked for other urinary problems? Bladder, ureter, or kidney issues? He might have bladder stones--my cat did. Initially the only partially blocked him from fully urinating, leaving him to "leak" when his bladder got too full, then they fully blocked his ureter. An enlarged bladder would probably be caught when the vet is palpating the animal, though. Have they done a blood panel? If there are renal problems, they would probably show up in a blood panel. It could also have something to do with his bladder sphincter being weak. Also, if he was really roughed up by a larger Bernese, it may have resulted in a pinched nerve or sorts, which can lead to urinary incontinence. 

Also, it's possible to get a false-negative urine culture, particularly if the dog has been on antibiotics recently--possible explanation for his second negative culture? If you don't want to jump right into an MRI (I don't blame you--it seems unnecessary at this point), maybe you could request that they do an ultrasound or abdominal x-rays, if they think they need to do some imaging studies. It would give them a glimpse at the insides of your dog, without having to go through the expense and hassle of an MRI so early in the game.

Best wishes and healthy thoughts are being sent your way. Keep us updated!


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## Racer (Apr 23, 2012)

Thanks for the info and nice thoughts!

@hotmischief
I sort of think it was a combination of medical and behavioral. The reason why I say that is there were also other items which seemed contrary to a UTI. For example, when sleeping at night, he would not have an accident and could last a good 9 hours+. Granted he was crated, but I would think that if he had a UTI he would have had an accident. Also, aside from a couple of accidents at home, he generally would be able to seem to hold it. It was at daycare where we he would have multiple accidents a day. He had been relatively accident free for at least 1 month prior to the series of accidents. During this time, I also started giving him way more freedom. I had just started to give him more access to rooms at home and had recently stopped leashing him when going to his potty area. So a part of me was thinking he was starting to test what he could do.

There were also some things that daycare reported which seemed very consistent with a UTI. Drinking lots of water, funky smelling urine. And he did seem lethargic. 

Right now, he's eating normal (he's on Acana) and is super energetic. He typically is zonked past 7PM. But that is because he usually get's 1-2hrs+ of off leash time.

@redrover
*sigh* yeah, this is frustrating. This last time he peed while walking, he started to go in his spot. He then stopped, seemed incredibly excited, and then did the walking pee. I basically picked him up (he stopped) and put him back in his potty area. He then continued and when for a really long time. Usually when he does the walking pee it's quite a bit.

They did palpate him, checked his urethra, and said the tests came back neg for stones. The thought on the blood was that they may have nicked him a bit when getting the urine sample (they got it both times by cystocentesis).

And I did have them run a blood panel.

The breeder was thinking it was kidney trauma. And I didn't think about the Bernese until she mentioned it. 

One thing they mentioned today at daycare. They say since Racer's so smart and such a well behaved pup, they often forget he's only 6 mos old.

I did forewarn daycare about the walking pee. But so far aside from that incident a few nights ago, no one has seen anything odd (like funky smelling pee, drinking lots of water, lethargy). 

I agree that something like X-rays or ultrasound would be the next step. 

Right now I'm a bit inclined to wait and see until something more definitive shows up.


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## Racer (Apr 23, 2012)

Oh, here are a couple of pics of Racer. Him as a pup and a more recent one.


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

Hi Racer,

He is a very handsome dog. Thank you for clarifying a lot of the points - I find it very interesting even though I can't throw any light on his problem if it is behavioural.

I do hope you get it sorted soon, and please keep us posted as we will all learn from this unusal behaviour. Good Luck


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

Racer: Our Pumpkin (20m) had a UTI @ 8.5 wks of age. The vet put her on clavimox, because he was afraid to give her something stronger due to her young age. The symptoms subsided, but they returned within 24 hrs. of finishing the antibiotic. In my experience, clavimox does not work very well with UTIs, but I was on board with a conservative approach due to age. The 2nd round of clavimox was started with a stronger dosage. Again, P rebounded only to appear to relapse within 48 hrs. of finshing the med. A lot of squatting, walking while attempting to pee etc. Sometimes she would actually pee, sometimes not, but the behavior was still indicative of an infection. Back at the vet, we went through all the testing you mentioned, as well as, x-rays & an ultrasound. Abnormalities were ruled out. Cultures indicated a small elevation in white cells, but nothing like the 1st time. None the less, the vet chose to put Pumpkin on batril just to be safe. Finished the meds, cultures/bloodwork looked great at follow-up, BUT the behavioral symptoms continued. Our vet, who phone conference with us in the room, with the urology specialist at the big vet hospital, both said that it is not unusual to see a dog continue the behavior associated with a UTI after finishing tx; in addition, I was told this is most common in pups. Almost liked a learned behavior. Because we had already done so much testing with very good results, I was comfortable with the watch & wait. The urologist told us to give it 2 wks (assuming no accidents, blood in the urine etc). Sure enough, after about 7-8 days, the squatting to pee all the time, peeing while walking etc. stopped. It was like someone flipped a switch one night & that was it. We have had no issues since. Oddly enough, when I spoke with the breeder, shortly after getting the 1st round of clavimox, she said be careful about getting too many rounds of meds. I asked some questions, and honestly, I thought she was either just defensive, favoring holistic approaches, or just didn't know her science when she suggested "pups can get habituated to meds in their system." Huh?? Explain the logic behind habituation to antibiotics I was thinking. Now, was she right? I think I may have misunderstood her, and she was partially correct in what she was trying to tell me. If a dog shows infection, meds are definitely needed, but using meds when cultures are clean is not good. I think you are doing a good thing by watching & waiting. If at any time you are no longer comfortable, take Racer for more tests. Good Luck!


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## Racer (Apr 23, 2012)

@hotmischief
Thanks! This site has so many good looking V's around. I remember before I got him I was info gathering and ogling all the other V's.

@kellygh
Thanks for the words of encouragement on the waiting it out. Sorry to hear Pumpkin got hit that young with a UTI, but glad to hear she got better! It was helpful to hear that your urologist said to wait it out. It makes sense that they'd have a bit of a learned behavior while enduring the UTI.

Everyone here is on high alert, so hopefully it's just a passing thing!


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## Emily1970 (Apr 21, 2011)

Racer, definitely keep an eye on your V for infection, but my 14 month old rescue V makes a sport of walking and peeing. He will stand still when he first starts and then starts walking so I end up washing his legs down with wet wipes every time he goes out. We are working on this, but there doesn't seem to be an easy fix. I have started laying my hands on Chuck's back after he starts peeing and sometimes he will hold still and other times he will just take off.


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## Gingernutter (Dec 4, 2011)

Hi, well Mylo does the peeing and walking thing, he is 9 months and fully house trained. He is a big boy now and for the last month has started to **** his leg... However he does sometimes loose his balance and fall over whilst mid pee! He still on occasions squats (mainly if nothing to **** a leg up) and when he does squat he usually never finishes and starts to walk and pee. I was actually putting this down to him just being so focused on sniffing the ground that he couldn't be bothered to wait! I am defiantly not worried that it any form of infection although not saying that's the case for you. Good luck.


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