# Looks like Pacsi's first heat is here!



## Suliko

For the past week, Pacsirta has had a few accidents at home. Initially we thought perhaps we didn't notice in time when she asked to be let out and disregarded it as "woops". Then few days ago she did it again on the carpet upstairs, and last night she had two small puddles on the carpet right by our bed. My first thought - parasites! Took the stool samples in, came back yesterday negative. Next guess - UTI! But she desn't urinate frequently and no sign of any blood in the urin. I wanted to get some urine sample to take to the vet when it dawned on me - maybe she's coming into heat! 

Her vulva has its own story... Even as a pup her lady parts were a bit bigger and more "out there" as other Vs, and looked larger than our oldest V Sophie's (who was spayed at 9 months). For the past few months, knowing that she can come into her first heat, we have been watching her like hawks. I mean, getting up close personal and everything. Because the size of her vulva is noticeably larger in general, I would get comments even from our trainer about it. So, after reading all the threads on here about the first heats and looking/reading at all the external information shared, I am even more convinced she's coming into heat. Not only Pacsi has been urinating more often, she has also been more clingy. But since she's already such a baby and wants to be with us 24/7, I didn't really think too much of it. The past two days though she literally would velcro herself to my leg. She'd just come up, stand right next to me, and lean on my leg for at least two or three minutes before making a move. 

Now, after reading all this info, I am wondering if her vulva was bigger in size this whole time because her coming into heat was very very slow...and now it's here? I also noticed light spots on our white covers in the bedroom, but I am not 100% positive what it is from because she sleeps in her bed at night. However, during the day she does lounge on it. But tonight I am going to put white towels/sheets in Pacsi's bed to see if it's any sort of discharge from her. I can't remember her licking her lady parts more than usual though.

SO.... today I have been nervous and excited at the same time. Of course, my little girl is growing up, and I want to give her the best care I can! But the more I'm reading, the more I'm realizing how different heats can be. It leaves me with a feeling that I need to be prepared for EVERYTHING and ANYTHING haha....which is not possible, of course, because I have never gone through such ordeal before. All the signs can or can not be signs/symptoms of her first heat approaching. 

After all this rambling, my question is: *how did you realize your V is starting her (first) heat?* I'd like to know about the very beginning. I thought I'd know it right away but apparently I was wrong! :-[ 

(I have attached two pictures where her lady parts are visible - first one at 5/6 mos and second from a few weeks ago....sorry...)


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## texasred

She could be coming in to heat and have a UTI.
My girls seem to need more potty breaks during the heat cycle but don't have accidents in the house.
Since it would be the start of her heat cycle the discharge would be small amounts and not noticeable unless she was laying in one stop for some time. It would still be light in color, more of a pink than red. The red comes later.
I hope this information helps.


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## elliesmom

I couldn't help but post her also. My Ellie is quite large, larger than your gal. No accidents in the house for a few months and no more than usual outdoor trips. I know she will soon be coming in to her 1st cycle but she was been swelled up for MONTHS..
Could it be a UTI??


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## Suliko

*TexasRed*, thank you so much for your reply! Yes, I am still going to take a urin sample to the vet just to make sure. 
She did run up to the back door a few times last night to let us know she needs to go. It makes me feel as if we missed all signs the other times when she might have asked us


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## Suliko

*elliesmom*, I will check for UTI just to be on the safe side. I know of a Rottweiler girl who just went through her first heat, and she had a UTI right before and right after her heat. So glad it's weekend, and I can keep a closer eye on her


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## VictoriaW

Suliko...have you tried wiping her vulva with a cottonball or tissue? That should show you if she is having discharge.

Gracie's behind looked loose & baggy leading up to her heat. Then one night she bounded off the bed where I was working on my laptop & left a drop of blood on the screen (I was alone in the house & completely freaked out, as I didn't know where it had come from!). Within 2-3 days she was dripping red spots. For us, neediness ramped up during & even post heat. Not so much beforehand.

Pacsirta's parts are very pronounced!


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## threefsh

Riley is in the middle of her 2nd heat & I was just wondering this morning if it would be helpful to post a pic of her lady parts. I will take a pic once I get home.


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## SkyyMax

Suliko,

We don't have much of experience - Skyy is our first girl dog, when we got Skyy, I took her to the vet the next day. 

The vet said she was in heat, her parts were swollen, but she did not have any discharge.
The discharge started 3-4 weeks later, Skyy was "leaking" a lot! She would leave a trail of blood behind, thankfully it did not last very long. 

Like Victoria said "Pacsi's parts are very pronounced", I agree, you can not miss it.


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## Suliko

*VictoriaW*, thank you for the helpful tip! I just wiped her, and doesn't look like anything is there... I'll keep watching  

*threefsh*, yes, pictures are great! ;D 

*SkyyMax*, oh wow! I hope Pacsi doesn't "leak" too much :-[ About a week ago, I actually tried on doggy diapers on her  She wasn't too happy, but she didn't try to remove it either. But I don't think we're even close to that phase yet. 


I'm watching her tonight, and she seems like herself. Did anyone experience their Vs become more hungry during their heat? Pacsi seems to be around us while we're eating ALL the time.


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## adrino

Hey Suliko, it's funny you posted this... 

Elza's having her second heat from right tonight! Came home from work and there was it, blood on her bedding. I already knew she will come into heat since her lady part was swollen for about 3 weeks prior and a few male dogs were sniffing at her in the park making crying noises... 

As you may remember she had her first heat in June so it's literally 6 months later! Like a clock!  
First time I didn't realise at all she was coming into heat, I think because of her age (6.5 months old), we just didn't expect it at all and one day my other half got up at the morning and she was having very dark discharge. :-[
Now I was more prepared.... We've been watching her like a hawk! :
I have to say there's a huge difference between her first and second time so far but I put this down to her age, she was really just a puppy in June. A few weeks ago my extremely submissive dog had a fight with another dog (Elza got bitten while she was with our dog walker) and last week she attacked a staffy on leash. She didn't get the dog but would circle around it and bark aggressively. Two of us couldn't get her and when eventually I did she almost bit me as I grabbed her by her collar. She never touched my skin but obviously she was totally in a red zone! She has never done anything like this before and most of the time she ends up on her back if she sees another dog, that's how submissive she is! The reason why I mentioned this because she acts a bit unpredictable at times. I'd like to think this is because of her getting into heat and not because we have a problem with her. 

This morning when I took her out there was definitely no discharge whatsoever. Tonight it's bright red or a bit darker straight away. It's not necessary she will have any other discharge beforehand. 

Elza always pees a lot outside (she's a marker!) but hasn't had any accidents in the house for a long time. You might be right about the UTI. Better be safe than sorry. 

Good luck with your girl, once it starts we keep her safe for about 30 days. I think for the first 5 days its still ok around other dogs but its something you need to monitor.


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## threefsh

Here are two pics I just had my hubby take of Riley's lady parts... you can tell she's not thrilled about having a picture taken of her backside. :-[

Her nipples also get swollen during her heats. The first heat she had the most swelling, but with this second heat they are only slightly swollen. 

She gets very hungry right before her heat (eats like there is no tomorrow) and then she is a very picky eater *during* her heat.


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## Rudy

;D 8)


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## Suliko

*adrino*, thank you for sharing your experience! Again, it looks like each time is different, and I should prepare for the worst, and maybe it won't be that bad  Heat at 6 months must have been so surprising for you. I did read your first heat thread, and it was really helpful. I don't even know what to think because I can't figure out if she's swollen or not...or if it's just her normal size  She's been this size for long time. She's been good around other dogs and no problems with Sophie. Really, she's my little science project! 

*threefsh*, thank you for the pictures! Riley is swollen ??? No, Pacsi's "bean" hasn't popped that big yet. Pacsi is an "innie" actually....which can also lead to UTIs (hasn't happened yet). As they say - picture is worth a thousand words  

*Rudy*, no no no.... no babies for my baby! ;D


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## datacan

Happy New Year! 


ps. We have 5 month old spaniel mix, she will come into heat some day. The way I see it, if Sammy starts smelling her more than usual, then it's time to keep her on leash and watch her like a hawk.


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## lyra

I can't believe I am spending my Christmas holiday studying pictures of dog genitalia 

Although a little OT this seems a good place to share a story at our expense. Neither my wife or I have ever had a dog before. I had to drive a round trip of eight hours to pick up our Lyra so imagine my horror when my wife, on meeting our new treasure, looked at her 'parts' and declared 'her' a 'him'. Neither of us realised that female dog genitalia protruded like it does (and of course dog willies are further forward). My first 10 minutes with my new puppy at home were spent googling 'female dog genitalia'!

More relevant to the OP, this has been a useful thread as first time dog owners. We are planning to have Lyra spayed but would rather wait until she is about nine months because my wife will be off work for a couple of weeks at Easter so can help with keeping Lyra entertained while inactive. We are concerned she may have her first heat before then so it is useful to know what to look out for.


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## Suliko

*datacan*, Happy New Year to you too!  BTW, have WE seen on the forums your spaniel mix? Sorry if you have posted it before.... I don't recall it :-[

Since I don't have Sammy, I wonder if I can use *OttosMama*'s Otto to see if Pacsi is near her heat ;D Yesterday and today Pacsi has been her normal self. No accidents in the house, not super clingy... This is so puzzling... :-\ I'll just keep watching her. 

*Lyra*, you're story is too funny ;D AND there are lady parts that are "innies" and "outies", too! My both Vs kinda have "innies"...which are more prone to urinary tract infections. Luckily mine haven't had one. Well, I still need to test Pacsi to rule it completely out. I'm wondering if I started this thread too early because the pre-heat symptoms - more frequent urination and clinginess - haven't been shown yesterday and today. Maybe I jumped the gun. BUT she is 12 months old and hasn't had her heat yet.... and as we know from *adrino*'s Elza, they can go into heat as early as 6 months! AND every heat is different. If you use the "search" option to the right and type in "first heat", you'll find a lot more useful information on here. 

So, as I already stated, today Pacsi is her normal self. We have also had my family stay at our house for some time. Perhaps that has something to do with her recent behavior? ??? Everyone loves her and she loves everyone back....but one never knows. Also, I am very tempted to meet up with OttosMama's Otto tomorrow : Would it be taking a chance? I remember we met late summer, and Otto was very interested in her then. Following her, smelling her lady parts and even licking them once or twice. She didn't have any discharge then though or anything... Maybe I missed something? She really is making me think too much about this ;D

P.S. I put white pillowcases in each of the dog beds (they tend to switch at night) to see if I can see any spotting... This is how they looked this morning - Sophie's to the right and Pacsi's to the left....  I will never find anything in Pacsi's bed


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## adrino

*Suliko* I doubt you will miss it when she starts to bleed. Elza has very dark bedding with a purple blanket, last night when I came home I saw it the moment I went down to pet her.
Any male dog will sniff at her with a lot more interest than normally. I wouldn't be worried to much for now. 
We still let her off leash for a few more days. She will not be 'willing' right from the start. I'll try to take some pics too just for comparison. It's totally different from what *threefsh* posted. 

To *Lyra*, I would reconsider to spay your dog too early. We had many discussion on the forum about it. It could have an effect on your dog's growth that you will not know until its too late. We live in a flat so for us it's even harder, we have to go out no matter what, cannot just take her to the garden for some exercise. Still we have decided to wait with spaying. This is Elza's second heat and once it's over we will spay her before her next one. By then she will be around 17-18 months old. That's still not great but better than what most Vet would suggest. It is indeed an inconvenience for us but for the sake of our dog's growth and health we just deal with it. Hope you look into it a bit more.


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## lyra

Adrino I will look into this further. 

Our vets (who we are very happy with and very pro Vizsla) don't believe there is any scientific evidence that waiting makes any difference but I will read around the subject before we go ahead.


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## Mileysmom

Miley had her first heat at 1 year old.
She was very calm and sleepy prior the event, and her nipples and vulva got swollen, then I noticed blood stains on our bedding and i knew her first heat is here.

Well it was 3 weeks, with constant cleaning because she didn't want to wear the pads. Thank God we have hardfloors and leather sofas..I rolled up the carpets and after the first week of relatively heavy bleeding it eased up.

Hope little Pacsirta will get over it soon.


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## Suliko

* adrino*, phew...I feel better. I'll let her play with other dogs and not worry too much until I get some evidence she's really actually going into heat. Right now I'm still not sure... :-[

*Mileysmom*, thank you! I just hope it won't be dragged out too long. We have carpeting in our bedroom, but I'm planning on crating her at night and I really hope she'll keep the diapers on while around the house.


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## datacan

You asked for it, Suliko... did not post because she is not a V but, she is trained by a V.


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## Suliko

Thank you for sharing, *datacan*! She looks absolutely adorable :-* Sammy, the big brother, is a good looker, too! 8)


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## datacan

:-[ they have matching outfits... my wife thinks it's cute :-[


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## adrino

Just a quick pick of Elza's backside... :-[
I'm uploading it from my iPhone so it might be upside down. I do apologise in advance. 
(Ps I can't believe I'm looking at girl doggies little back bits!  )


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## Suliko

*datacan*, look on the bright side - he will never be mistaken for a deer when running in the woods in that outfit ;D


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## Suliko

*adrino*, thank you for posting the pic! I know... I've started a weird trend - pictures of lady parts during their heat  BUT I find it educational, and it can be helpful to those who have never gone through this before and are not sure what to look for... especially when it can vary from dog to dog. Still, Pacsi's vulva looks a bit different; it's like she has a "skirt" over her "bean". I think *flynnandlunasmom*'s Luna had similar.


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## Rudy

Innies ;D outties  after searching the globe

We love them all some fun"

Advanced degrees in this one"

Seasoned of course Beef :-*


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## lilyloo

Ruby's backside looks just like Pacsi's and has for a few months. 

I too have been wondering if Ruby is about to go into heat. She's almost 8 months old. Last week we were in an off leash zone at a local park and there were 4 other dogs there, 3 males and one female. One of the male dogs growled and snapped at Ruby and then started humping her. We wentto move away and they all started chasing her and a fight almost broke out. It was like she was a piece of meat that they all wanted. Very bizzare and frankly scared me. Luckily my husband was with me and was able to use his loud voice to startle the dogs and they retreated. 

I haven't noticed any discharge but the way these dogs acted around her and mounted her makes me wonder if she's starting to smell/come into heat.


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## Suliko

*lilyloo*, I'm sorry you had such experience at the park  Must've been a bit frightening. We had *OttosMama*'s Otto visiting yesterday, and Pacsi was feisty with him at the beginning. Not sure if it was because of her possibly coming closer to first heat or just her personality when a third dog is inserted between her and our oldest V.Sophie. She's so puzzling... Otto didn't show any more interest in Pacsi than he would towards Sophie. 

Yesterday Pacsi peed in the hosue again  She was good for two days. I don't know how to collect her urin now because there is so much snow in our back yard, and she pees right in it. I could collect the yellow snow, I guess!  I'll try tonight and see if I can get it to the vet to be tested. 

Here are some pics from the great outdoor adventure with Otto


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## Suliko

Today for several reasons we took Pacsi and Sophie to the day care they usually go to. We had already told them about her possibly approaching her first heat but weren't sure yet. The day care said they would keep her separate and then let her play with some bitches only to be on the safe side. WELL...we just got a call - Pacsi was acting completely different with the other female dogs than what she usually is and was charging at them. So, we were politely asked not to bring her over until she's had her first heat. 
I am still waiting to hear back about her urin test results. But looks like all sings are leading towards her first heat. And I am getting more and more anxious :-\ 
Another thing, for the past two days, I've come home, and Sophie has been acting a bit different - tail tucked under, ears down... I wonder what goes on while they are both at home. I wonder if I should break out the crate and have Pacsi crated during the day. They've been good just laying around the house though while we're at work. Should I crate Pacsi only or should I crate them both? 
All these questions and thoughts... any opinions/suggestions? ???


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## threefsh

Sounds familiar.  Think of it as her going through puppy "puberty". Riley was SUPER moody and grumpy for her first heat. This 2nd heat has been a breeze. I wouldn't have even known she was in heat other than the swelling in her backside. I would recommend crating her to make sure she's not snapping at poor Sophie while you're gone. Pasci will come out of this a much more mellow, mature girl and will act much more like an adult than a puppy - I promise!


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## Suliko

*threefsh*, thank you so very much for your reply. It makes me feel much better! I think I have a very hard time seeing my little, sweet girl becoming this "little beast" I'm not familiar with. Can't wait for this to be over ....and it hasn't even started yet!  I will take your advice and crate Pacsi while we're at work so that Sophie can have some peace. Thanks again!


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## texasred

It will pass. June was a snot the first part of her heat and then liked all the dogs a little to much. 
Lucy was the same old Lucy during her heat but is now bolder as she matured. No need to stress all will go back to normal. 
If you have a video camera I would place it to see whats going on when your gone. Pacsi may not be why Sophie is having her tail down. It could be fireworks are any number of things.


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## Suliko

*TexasRed*, I am so happy to read all will go back to normal at the end! Thank you!  I wonder how long her heat will last... 
I am not sure about the fireworks. Usually they both just bark at it when indoors. Recently we had a very unpleasant experience when during one of our off-leash walks, kids set off fireworks only about 50 ft and spooked both of them. They got really startled but I was able to make them stay in place while I got them by their collars (all the stays and whoas worked). Scary... But they were fine right after it and I didn't see any signs of fear. 
We have thought about a camera set up in the house many times. We might just have to do it and take out all the guessing work. 
Can't wait to see my little girl tonight. I'll give her a tight hug and will tell her everything is gonna be alright  She too must be wondering - what the **** is going on!


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## adrino

Suliko, since Elza was coming into and being in heat she's been bitten twice! I have seen her having an attack on a staffy myself plus being aggressive towards random dogs. And when i say aggressive I don't mean a snap towards a dog coming to her but her running to a dog and acting aggressively. She's extra submissive usually so seeing these things are quite unsettling. 
I hope she will not turn into a fearful aggressive dog. :-[

Pacsi will be fine! Maybe for the sake of Sophie it's better to crate her.


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## Suliko

Awww...poor Elza  I am sure you were so worried about her acting so different towards other dogs. I'm sure she will not turn into a fearfull aggressive dog! I was very puzzled when Pacsi went for Otto this past weekend, but after few corrections she was fine for the rest of the walk. I guess in human world it is called PMS? :-\ Women get snappy too! ;D


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## threefsh

Suliko said:


> I guess in human world it is called PMS? :-\ Women get snappy too! ;D


Haha! So true! Riley also gets super snuggly during her heat, which I LOVE. She's such an independent little turd most of the time.


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## datacan

This is great... I am learning so much  


Totally off topic :-[
Cold weather makes Sammy's intact bits turn red like Christmas ornaments.


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## Suliko

> Riley also gets super snuggly during her heat


Awwwe :-* Can't wait for that part of the heat! 

*datacan*, I too noticed last weekend Otto's "intact bits" were very bright colors  (sorry *OttosMama*) Surprisingly, Pacsirta's lady parts too turned bright red after a while. Snow is cold!


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## Suliko

Update! 
Pacsi's urine and blood tests came back negative, and I was extremely happy about it  Today I actually saw first drops of bloody, mucus-y discharge drip on our tile floor. I also noticed a big wet spot on the V couch on her side. Looked like she was grooming the couch cover; possibly cleaning herself and the couch up. But finally...FINALLY her bean is beginning to pop even more, and I see some physical evidence  And her nipples are just a tiny bit bigger than normally. She's also gluing herself to my leg more often now. But she's gained even more energy and is a complete nut at home which I happen to adore tremendously - it suits her!  Sophie still sometimes acts weird around her. I don't think Pacsi is snapping at her, but i'm not 100% sure. She just pushes Sophie out of the way like a little bully to get what she wants. And Sophie gives in. When I pet Sophie, her tail is wagging, ears up, and she's herself. 
I had Pacsi on retractable leash today while Sophie got to run around, and she didn't pull that much. After our walk she was a crazy, hungry Vizsla! I have never seen her like this! I mean, she's always been a hungry pup, but now she's become a food maniac! The girl can definitely eat!! 

I have been going back in recent history trying to remember when she started acting differently. If all these (at least past three) months were a gradual move towards her first heat... then I have failed the test!  I thought everything would be around +/-30 days - lady part and nipple swelling, light discharge, then bleeding, then no discharge. Of course every dog is different, but does it really take that long to go into heat? I never noticed her licking the lady parts more than usual or any other out of order behavior...unless she does it while sleeping along with the puppy push-ups  

Anyway... thanks for reading the random ramblings of my little red science project ;D


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## VictoriaW

So glad for you that the wait is over!


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## adrino

There you go *Suliko*! ;D She's growing up then!

I can't remember if I mentioned but with Elza the first time was a big surprise. One morning she was bleeding! I had no idea it was coming! 
I had a female pointer before and she wasn't even spayed but it all seems so far now that I can't remember any part of her heats.  :-[ 
I will definitely won't forget Elza's... 

As a side note, Elza started to get off her food after about 8-9 days in heat. Now we need to encourage her while she eats.


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## SkyyMax

It was quite an experience for us, I was shocked to see Skyy "romancing" Max (not even 6 months old at the time) and encouraging him to mate 
So, we had to keep them apart, plus watching her on walks, definitely something I won't forget! 

Luckily it lasts 3-4 weeks


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## Suliko

Thank you everyone so much for sharing your experiences! You guys are great help because I never imagined it would be like this 

Today is bleeding day Nr. 5. Her "bean" has REALLY popped now. I'll try and get a photo :-[ She is still a bit moody and snappy. However, there is one thing she doesn't mind - doggy diapers  She doesn't take them off and doesn't chew them. I am so happy she can still follow us around the house and be herself without having to put her in the crate to avoid messy stains. Pacsi sleeps more now and is still really clingy...which of course I love  We still go on walks with retractable leash but teach he to heel next to us. She has gotten much better, and I'm very proud of her. I hope in few more weeks she can run free again together with Sophie. 

Again, I must say thanks to everyone who gave me words of comfort! What a great place this forum is. I will post again soon to give you an update on how Pacsi is doing


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## adrino

Glad to hear things going well with Pacsi. Clever girl she doesn't touch the "doggy knickers". It will be over before you know it. :
I also use this time to practise the leash walk with Elza. I really had enough of it though! :-[ I bet she had enough too. I like to see her run free and enjoy herself. She has accepted it pretty well but every time she sees a green patch to the left she tries to rip my arm out! We are working on that every day...  
We are on day 18! It's almost over! Yay! 
Keep us posted, it's good education to all of us!


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## datacan

I heard from my wife's sister that they try to lick themselves clean and try not to leave spots. They have a poodle, girl, intact, 6 years old, though. 

I have never seen such big eyes on a vizsla... She looks like aliens just landed. 
Still pretty, though


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## Suliko

*adrino*, day 19 today! Woohoo! Getting closer! 



> I heard from my wife's sister that they try to lick themselves clean and try not to leave spots. They have a poodle, girl, intact, 6 years old, though.


Yes, Pacsi is very very clean, and she hid all the light discharges very well. Now with the diaper on she can still snuggle with us in bed 

*River*, that is hillarious!! ;D I bet that's exactly what Pacsi is doing at night


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## threefsh

Pacsi looks so cute in her diaper! It's funny, Riley doesn't mind wearing hers either even though she's our destructive pup. 

5 days to go until Riley is in the safe zone! ;D


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## Suliko

*threefsh*, yay for you too!  

I want to count too, but I really have no idea what I should count towards to. :


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## adrino

Thanks *suliko*! 

Elza's little backside has started to go down. Still swollen but not as large as it was! Hurray!
I wonder how long to go too... Last time we kept her safe for 30 days. Maybe this time it won't be that long?!
What day Riley's on *threefsh*?


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## threefsh

adrino said:


> Thanks *suliko*!
> 
> Elza's little backside has started to go down. Still swollen but not as large as it was! Hurray!
> I wonder how long to go too... Last time we kept her safe for 30 days. Maybe this time it won't be that long?!
> What day Riley's on *threefsh*?


Riley started bleeding on December 20th, so I guess we're on day 26. Her back-end is almost completely back to normal.


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## adrino

So you're keeping her safe for 30 days too. Thanks for the info! : 
11 more days to goo then!


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## Suliko

That means 23 more days for us  I better not tell my husband just yet... ;D


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## WillowyndRanch

30 days... wow.

I've never in all the years had a bitch that would stand for a dog more than 8 days and that was longer than average. Most will only accept for 5-6 and I've had one that would take ONE breeding and never let the male near her again. 

Having Studly dogs around is helpful as they are a good barometer. The experienced ones will show interest for a bit and say "Nah, not yet" and go lay in the sun. When it's getting close to game time they become more animated and playful. When she is out, even if swollen the bitches will spin and snap with no uncertainty that she is closed for business. First drop to last is generally 3 weeks, 8-12 days coming in, 5-6 standing and the remainder going out. Our bitch quarantine is generally about 2 weeks. A few days prior to standing, a few after and all is right with the world again. 

Ken


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## Suliko

Ken, thanks so much for your reply! I was wondering where I actually begin to count. I can't wait to see how her lady parts look after the heat because then I'll know the "normal" size again. Right now, because she looked or maybe was swollen for months, I have no idea how long this whole process all together will be. Most likely we had her running swollen off-leash on our walks the whole time before she started to bleed.


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## WillowyndRanch

Glad to help Suliko.
We count from the first spotting. There are some bitches who come in "silent" which basically means they don't swell much and spotting is light as well as they are fastidious. We have the advantage that the boys tell us, all we need to do is pay attention to the signs. 
Ken


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## Suliko

The spotting was a bit of a mistery, too. I think Pacsi groomed herself very well, but I had some suspicions. I should just listen to my V mommy instincts!

I don't understand the peeing... Today Pacsi took of her diaper and peed on the V. couch  (Maybe because my mom took Sophie out first to pee and then came for Pacsi). She was fine since last Fri .....when she peed on my husband's pillow in our bed. Maybe I'll bring in another urin sample. Otherwise she looks and acts fine, has great appetite, is alert on walks and when people come to our house. The only thing different is that she just sleeps more. She and Sophie have been good around each other. The only thing is that Pacsi doesn't play with Sophie so much anymore. Could this be something to do with Sophie? Like a revenge?  It's really really bothering me that I can't figure it out  One thing I know for sure, the in-house urination came right before the heat.


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## adrino

Thanks for this info Ken!
To be fair I have now idea how long Elza's heat last all together plus all the different parts of it...
I know that at the beginning there's no danger for her accepting male(s) so we still let her off leash till day 5 but after that I wasn't comfortable walking her near other strange dogs. Especially since on the 5th day there were several males following her around in the park and wouldn't let her be so it was the best for her to not take her there again. We also don't have a male dog handy to test wether she's ready or not.  

So I guess by your experience Elza is done with her heat?! She's on day 20 today and I haven't seen any more discharge but that doesn't mean that there isn't any... She's still licking herself all the time. When the discharge finished the heat ended too?


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## threefsh

WillowyndRanch said:


> 30 days... wow.
> 
> I've never in all the years had a bitch that would stand for a dog more than 8 days and that was longer than average. Most will only accept for 5-6 and I've had one that would take ONE breeding and never let the male near her again.
> 
> Having Studly dogs around is helpful as they are a good barometer. The experienced ones will show interest for a bit and say "Nah, not yet" and go lay in the sun. When it's getting close to game time they become more animated and playful. When she is out, even if swollen the bitches will spin and snap with no uncertainty that she is closed for business. First drop to last is generally 3 weeks, 8-12 days coming in, 5-6 standing and the remainder going out. Our bitch quarantine is generally about 2 weeks. A few days prior to standing, a few after and all is right with the world again.
> 
> Ken


30 days is recommended by our breeder so there aren't any accidental puppies from the Vizslas she sells. I'm sure a breeder is better at figuring out the exact timing, but to the average person 30 days means 0% chance of accidents.  It was MUCH easier to gauge Riley's last heat with Cooper. There was a week-long period where he kept mounting her and she actually LET him do it. (We pulled him off, of course.)


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## texasred

You don't even have to have a male. They will try and get frisky with other females too for a few days. They will be extremely playful and turn their backside toward them. Lucy pestered June off and on all day during her last heat. I kept telling her " Sorry girl, she can't do anything for you."

I do agree with keeping them away from dog parks and other places with large concentrations of dogs. All the males will be interested in her. Some will even fight other males because they want to be higher in the pecking order, even though she will not allow mating until the right time.


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## Suliko

This is how Pacsi's bean looks today. Sorry....


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## adrino

Very similar to Elza's by the look of it! lol 

We risked a forest off leash walk today with her! Met with 6-7 dogs and only one Westy tried to jump on her. Quickly got hold of Elza and pushed the other dog away till the owner leashed him. I don't think Elza wanted anything. She sat down and my partner quickly jumped in and grabbed her while I pushed him away. Since Elza is very submissive she didn't snap at the male, but seeing her sit down straight away was a sign she wanted nothing to do with that male. We still didn't want to risk anything. Once they were far enough we let her off leash again and she wasn't interested running after that dog at all. Met with another male later on and he wasn't interested in her. So I guess it's over. No discharge for 2-3 days now if not more. 

She loved the forest run! It was lovely to see her enjoy herself again! For a few more days we will still stay away from the park but next week she'll be fine for sure.


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## Suliko

*adrino*, I can only imagine how happy Elza was to run free! It must have been so much fun with all the dogs playing together. So jealous! Soon...very soon... ;D 

Glad to report that Pacsi's peeing thing on the couch was a mistake. She had chewed a hole in the diaper and groomed herself and the V couch, making it look like a big, wet spot. Phew... Also, Pacsi is sleeping a LOT, and she's out as a light every time she lays down. I really really love this experience - so many new things, so many emotions! Crazy!  
I'm getting worried now about Pacsi's interaction with other dogs after her heat. Last dog she was around (besides Sophie) was Otto....and she was frisky with him :-[ I hope he still wants to play with her. *adrino*, how did the re-introduction to other dogs go with Elza? Anyone else has good tips or would like to share experience?


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## adrino

Hey *suliko*, she was the happiest ever. It knocked her out for the rest of the day even though we had done that walk many times before.  (never really tired her out for more than a few hours)
The intro was all natural, she was off leash they met sniffed and all was done. She played with two dogs and it was all fine, didn't see much difference. Except that one dog non seemed to be aware she was in heat not long before. 
Yesterday I avoided most of the dogs in the park but if there were any close by they didn't sniff at her too much either. 

I think you shouldn't worry too much about meeting with other dogs again once its safe to do so. It all went back to normal with Elza (for now!  )


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## Suliko

I'm glad that Elza is back to her normal! I'm sure it will stay that way  She sounds like such a darling! I can't wait to see how Pacsi will interact with other dogs after this experience. 

Today is day 11 of bleeding, and doesn't look like it's stopping. Maybe a little less, but still definitely going strong. I can't even predict when she'd be on the other end of the heat because it took her so long to go into heat. Pacsi has gained a bit more weight, and is looking good! She reminds me of a lion...or a tiger - very cat-like (please, don't tell her). Her paws are huge... and when she tracks, she's low to the ground. She was doing great during her bird training on Saturday and found both birds with no problem under less than favorable weather conditions. Her nose is amazing, and the trainer loves to work with her! 
I'm still wondering about the "calm" part of the heat... I mean, she sleeps a lot but when she's awake, she's a tornado! And I happen to love it :-[ If you are not fast enough, she'll sneak in a big, sloppy kiss before you can even blink! 

Yesterday, we let both of my girls run free in a fenced in soccer field. It was a beautiful day, and they had a wonderful time. Here are some shots


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## Suliko

And she's still bleeding.... 

Our favorite tune right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlizSykHB6w :


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## adrino

Great pictures! 8)
Looking at them thinking of getting a second one too! 

She will still bleed for another week I think but you should see change in the colour. If so do not let her off leash from now on. 

I'm glad we didn't wait the full 30 days. It would have been totally unnecessary. Once the bleeding stopped we waited 3-4 more days just to make sure that it was over. I have to say though her first heat lasted longer. She was bleeding longer that's for sure.


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## Suliko

> Looking at them thinking of getting a second one too!


;D I absolutely love having two Vs. More work but also more fun! 

Yes, no off leash runs... This one lasted about 10 minutes :'( Having lived in a country where stray dogs were (and still is) norm, I know exactly what happens when a male dog smells a bitch in heat. Not a pretty sight to see when five of them are chasing her and taking turns...  I once couldn't get into my apartment because a stray bitch was laying in front of the entryway and a male dog was basically waiting on her to let him have her. I had to get help from people around in order to get into my apartment because the dog was growling every time I took a step closer towards the door. Scarry... 

I am glad to see no dogs have shown up at our door step so far. It is a big suburbia around here, and most people's dogs are spayed/neutered... but you never know - it's still not over! 

Pacsi's bleeding is starting to look lighter in color this morning, still same amounts (thanks for the heads up, *adrino*!!). Sophie actually has been a bit more interested in Pacsi's rear (if I can say so) and even licking it, as well as sniffing and licking Pacsi's bed and crate. They've been really good together and Pacsi hasn't been bossy with her. Sophie was actually quite upset that Pacsi had to stay in her crate yesterday during the day for a bit and didn't even come and say hi to me when I got home. Only when I let Pacsi out did she give me a nice V-wag :

Oh well.... one day at a time! Please, if someone reads and sees something I'm doing wrong or saying wrong, please please feel free to tell me so  This is the first heat I'm going thru in my life. Still lots to learn! I promise, I will not take offense!


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## flynnandlunasmom

I haven't been on the forum for a while so I know this is old news but I'm glad to here Pacsi's having her first heat. 

Hopefully it will be a quick one for you (and her).


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## Mileysmom

You are doing everything right Suliko. I remember when miley had her season I didn't even tok her to the park becuase one time a nice male doggie with no collar followed us all the way home sticking his nose in Miley's behind. 

Hope lil Pacsirta will soon running on tracks.

- MM


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## Suliko

* flynnandlunasmom*, thank you! I hope it goes by fast, too. I know how Luna's heat was for you....you have plenty of experience!  

*Mileysmom*, thank you so much! I haven't seen any other dogs too much interested in her. But while on leash walking on the streets, she now sounds like she wants to murder every dog passing by....which is embarrassing and we need to work on. Can't wait for things to go back to normal!


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## Suliko

Day 16 of bleeding.... :-\ I think, Pacsi is finally tired of it, too. She's learnt how to remove her diaper when she needs, and I don't blame her. She's been really good in the crate and loves the whole grooming process. Not only Sophie has been interested in Pacsi's rear, but also Pacsi in Sophie's.... they keep walking behind each other and grooming. I offer them their ears but nope, no interest. Go figure... ???

I can't wait for this to be over! Really... c a n ' t w a i t! ;D Another one of our fave tunes now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9CJU8-m-ig


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## Suliko

THE BLEEDING IS OVER!!! ;D Yesterday it was still a bit but very very light and little. Today I haven't seen anything! IT IS OVER! Oh joy oh joy! ;D 

On the other side, Pacsi has gained some weight ??? Maybe she's finally stopped metabolizing everything at the speed of lightning. She's also filled out a little more (plus the fat, I'm sure). AND she's become a complete nut! Literally - this dog is so crazy! No idea what happened to her...she used to be such a calm puppy. Now it's either ON or it's OFF. No medium  But she's so funny this way! LOVE this little child of mine :-*

Thank you everyone who shared your experiences and for all the encouraging words. I'd be in such panic if not for you, guys! Thank you V-forums for letting me vent here! This is such a great place! Pacsi sends big thanks and V-smiles to everyone


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## threefsh

Yay Pacsi!!!! ;D

She will continue to fill out over the next couple of months. Our Riley went from a skinny little bean to a very muscular, solid-looking pup at 16 months old.


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## adrino

Well done! Once it's over it doesn't even seem to be that long!!! lol Elza managed to put a little weight on too but I put it down to only on leash walks... She couldn't run it off. 

Hope my girl starts to fill out too. She's such a little girl many dog owners think she's a pup.


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## datacan

Hey, our little Spaniel mix girl is in heat, forgot to mention... She wears dogie diapers and a tampon. Her character became very affectionate, still got to have everything the other dog has, though.
Didn't get to take pictures but boy, her parts are noticeably huge 

I thought it would be difficult with Sam around. The boy is smelling and knows something is up but not going crazy like I was warned he would be :-\
(he's not gay ;D, for sure). A quick leave it takes care of inappropriate nosing up there offences ;D 

It's actually easier than I thought, we let them go separately outside and of course the girl is always on leash when going for walks... she marks around trees ;D. 
Other than that, kennel takes care of most of it.


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## Suliko

Hi, *datacan*! I am so happy you posted about your little girl! It seems I've been gone from the forums forever... :-[ She sounds like my little Pacsi...who really isn't so little anymore. She too has to have everything Sophie has. 

How long has she been in heat already? Sammy might still pick up on the scent during the critical days. We never had one dog interested in Pacsi. Not that we let her off leash around other dogs, but no one showed up at our door in the middle of the night ;D When I remember how she went into heat, I just want to hug her...poor thing didn't understand what the **** is going on with her. I hope your girl isn't too overwhelmed by all the hormone changes. 

I too have noticed that Pacis marks now on our walks. She'll mark over Sophie, and Sophie will come back and mark over her again  

Looks like you have it all under control, and you're doing much better than I was ;D I didn't know what was going on with the frequent urination and snapping at Sophie. And that wasn't it! After her heat, she became aggressive towards other dogs, especially smaller ones... I found out she might be going through false pregnancy. She looked like she was lactating, and her nipples were just huge! Plus, she gained weight... Oh, dear! I feel like I need to write an essay just about her on the forums. One day I will do it. She's so different from all other Vizslas I have met. I can't figure her out...and I need to ;D 

Keep me posted about your baby girl. And you never say what her name is... (or maybe I missed it....sorry :-[ ) What is her name? 

-a


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## datacan

HI, her name is Lisa  

Sam smells things everywhere she sits but doesn't run to cover any of her marks. The boy is interested in a Doberman girl and Lisa loves to meet other fluffy dogs ;D

Sorry to hear about Pacsi's false pregnancy :-\, no sign of anything like that with Lisa. 
She just seems to like cuddle a little more. Sam understands. We divide the food in separate bowls and they end up taking turns eating from Sam's bowl :-\
I am puzzled because there isn't a fight or argument and she will happily back down if Sam sticks his nose into the bowl?


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## Suliko

Lisa is cute!  You know when I named my first V Sophie, I didn't realize one of my cousin's name is Sofia... :-[ I don't think she takes offence. 

Lisa probably thinks Sammy is naked...short fur, no undercoat, nothing... She is so cute though what I remember from pictures, especially the PJ pic with Sam! 

That's a very interesting observation with sharing the food bowls. That means they have respect for each other, and that's good! Seems like Pacsi has calmed down and doesn't mind Sophie in her bowl right now either. They do eat all their food first and then check each other's bowls in case any good leftover licks can be done  So glad the false pregnancy sings are disappearing and Pacsi can be her sweet pup again


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## datacan

There is a brown dog sulking in the background... This is a really good opportunity for more training. Actually, Lisa is training Sam. Won't let him get behind her at all. They are so mismatched, even if he did get behind her, she would just disappear underneath him. He needs someone like his size. Much bigger or much smaller may not work, IMO. Anyhow, not taking any chances. 
I am actually glad my wife picked Lisa. She grew up with a V so it's almost like a little cousin. 

I hate those guys who say humping is only about dominance.


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## Suliko

*Datacan*, Sophie humps too.... and she's the least dominant dog out there!

I thought I would give an update on how my Pacsi is doing after her first heat. SO...after we thought she was done with her first heat, all of a sudden she gained a lot of weight and started looking more like she's lactating... We thought perhaps she looks like that because of all the weight gain. Well, that was wrong. She went through a false pregnancy, and we only caught the very end of it! ??? Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Had I recognized it right away, I'm positive I'd be all over the forums! 

We have been moving between places for the past week, and both girls are spending this time at our friend's house. Her kids love to have our two crazies over, and we're happy they get to interact with children. I received a call yesterday that Pacsi has come into heat ....AGAIN! I had read/heard that after a false pregnancy it is possible, but I never expected it to be so soon! No signs whatsoever! Her vulva was not swollen at all unless I don't even know anymore what her "NOT-swollen" bean looks like! I was very proud of myself for staying calm and just giving instructions what to do and not to do.... She's being really good, and there are no behavioral changes like the very first time. The children got a doggy anatomy lesson, too ;D Today they are coming home. She'll get a big, hearty hug and a diaper! 

I have a few questions.... How the **** do I know when she'll be coming into heat next if she keeps coming into heat every three months? Is this heat my starting point to a countdown to her next heat (6-9 mos?)? :-\


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## datacan

The best surefire tester I know of is Sammy :-* 

Not that he knows what he's doing... but for the constant ear licking and non stop whining (only once did he try to mount). 
He is with me 24/7 and Lisa, being my wife's dog, is with her mostly. 

I read, and experienced, male dogs will exhibit similar reactions, even if neutered. 
Was Pacsi around males (neutered) during her heat?


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## Vida

Suliko- after having many bitches I can tell you you will never know when a bitch will have her next heat :-\
As they get older most bitches will show a pattern of six/ nine monthly,or yearly,but this is not set in stone.
Sorry,but you just have to go with the flow... if you excuse the pun!


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## Suliko

*datacan*, I can't remember...but I'm pretty sure she wasn't around any dogs during her first heat  

*Vida*, thank you! After reading more about heat cycles, I made an appt with doctor today. I don't want to guess. Just want to make sure she doesn't have any infections or anything else that might harm her. But from what I read, if she had her false pregnancy, her body might think she had the puppies and it's time for her heat again. I have a feeling the Vet might suggest to spay her 

Other than bleeding, Pacsi appears to feel great! Eats well, drinks well, doesn't urinate more than usual, plays with Sophie, stalks the cat, stools are nice and firm. Her vulva is swollen just like the first time. I'll post an update after our vet visit today.


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## Suliko

Update: 
We went to see a vet last night, and the news are not good. She did a smear and Pacsi has lots of bacteria in her uterus  She gave her antibiotics and took some blood to send in for white blood cell count. I will know later today what it is. But she said if the antibiotics don't help to clear the infection, she will most likely have to be spayed. My heart is breaking...  I wanted to wait at least till 24 months. But the most important thing is for her to be healthy even if it means spaying early. She is almost 16 months now. Right now you'd never know there is anything wrong with her - she's happy and playful, and eats and drinks well, same as usual. 

Has anyone ever experienced anything like this with their Vs?


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## datacan

Not good.... is it this, Pyometra?


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## Suliko

The vet didn't say specifically. Just that there is an infection, and we'll try and clear it with the antibiotics. We'll see what the bloodwork will come back with. Ugh... :'(


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## adrino

Oh no! Sending positive thoughts to your way! Hope Pacsi recovers fully with the antibiotics. Lucky you were suspicious enough to take her to the vet! 
Keep us posted!


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## Suliko

Thank you so much, *adrino*! 

The vet called back today with good news. Her white blood cell count is normal, and we have good hopes that the antibiotics will take care of the infection. I have to keep watching Pacsi in case she starts to feel ill, then we immediately go back to the vet to see if she has the pyometra. If she's doing good and feeling great throughout the whole time she's taking the antibiotics, we'll just go back for a repeat test to make sure the bacteria is gone. What a relief! I hope this infection is nothing serious and soon goes away. Pacsi, as usual, is happy as a clam and is very excited (along with Sophie) to get the extra peanut butter while taking her meds. I will keep you posted on how she recovers. I hope one day this post a.k.a. "Pacsi's heat diary" will help another V with similar experience.


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## datacan

Good news, indeed!

Antibiotic treatment probably will kill most beneficial bacteria in her inrserinal tract. Maybe supplementing with some digestive enzymes would be a good idea. 
Sam is doing very well on them.


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## River

Hopefully she's on the mend now, rivers second season still has not arrived.

We have got her some, phantom raspberry link below, has anyone else used it.

http://www.csjk9.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=58&idcategory=3

Should help with the phantom pregnancy, and other complications associated in theory? ? 

River ended up looking like a little barrel, her waist disappeared gradually, and we thought she was just out of shape, until the penny dropped, and we counted the date backwards.


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## Mileysmom

Hope Pacsi has fully recovered.

Unlike her Miley hasn't gotten her second heat yet (8 months since the first) long miserable period followed by a false pregnancy. 

Not as I miss it  but now it's time.

All the best for Pacsi and You

M


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## SkyyMax

Wishing Pacsi a full recovery!


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## Suliko

Thank you, *River*, *Mileysmom*, and *SkyyMax*! Pacsi seems to be doing very good! Still full of energy and love  

*datacan*, I'll have to look into the supplement market. I have never given any supplements before. BTW now that you started talking about Sammy's humping, I have caught Sophie on several occasions humping Pacsi  Who knows what they need to sort out.... Pacsi seems to see it as a game and just continues playing with her :

*River*, thank you so much for the suggestion! I have never seen such a product... I am very tempted to try  

It is bleeding day 8 for Pacsi. As I already mentioned, she is feeling well, no unusual behaviors. I feel like she's slowly calming down....as in growing up. I actually happen to love the puppy craziness, but she's a very serious puppy, and the "love" spurts make her look so funny 
I have to say, this time around, she hasn't snapped at Sophie once. I feel like she's a lot less hormonal and a lot more predictable. My baby is growing up! :-*


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## datacan

Allowed us to transition (cold turkey) to Orijen Regional Red, no need for pumpkin anymore. We struggled with Orijen before. If I only about probiotic and prebiotic supplements

http://www.inclover.com/optagest_dogs.html

There are other brands but the petfood guy had this on the shelf. Looking at the bottle covered with dust, these kind of supplements are not popular with dog owners. Kinda pricey add to that Orijen Red is the most expensive, and it's easy to understand. 

Found out from Rudy on a heated raw feeding thread, thanks guys.


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## Suliko

*datacan*, we actually feed Sophie Regional Red, and she has been in such great health for the past few years (knock on wood) that we're afraid of what would happen if Orijen ever stopped producing it. 
Pacsi on the other hand can't handle it. We have tried a few times. First time my husband had fed it to her (a whole 1.5cup) without telling me....and I thought the poor thing was going to leave her whole stomach in the woods. It just went right thru her like water (ask *OttosMama* :-[ ). The other few times we tried mixing it for longer periods of time with her food, she got some really bad bumps on her tummy and the runs, of course. Now she's on Merrick "Bison & Sweet Potatoe" formula, and looks very healthy  I'll need to look into this though...


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## datacan

Ehhh, that's exactly what Orijen did to Sammy. Must be the Hungarian blood line, LOL
I still have a kid shovel from the dollar store, used to put under his bum to catch the runny stuff... 

That's why I'm happy with the new stuff... 
Guy who sold me the first bag (NEW formula came out last month!) also gave me a can of pumpkin. I was so happy with the poop, next day, I took pictures of it and emailed to him ;D 

Happy Paci is doing well once again


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## Suliko

> I was so happy with the poop, next day, I took pictures of it and emailed to him


You did not!!?? ;D ;D ;D 

I remembered a story from past Wednesday when we went to see the vet. The technician cut Pacsi's and Sophie's nails. Sophie was soooo resistant, she hates her nails done. After a big fight, it was accomplished. To make Sophie happy, the doctor offered some cookies and asked what Sophie can do. I said she can do paw, high five, roll over. Vet did a few high fives and gave her a cookie. Then she goes to Pacsi and her bottom is already planted to the floor ready for the treat! Then she does a quick down to see if that helps, too! (We give bones, kongs and bully sticks in down position) The vet asks what can Pacsi do? After a big ummmm...... ummm...... I said: "She can hunt birds!" ;D I need to teach Pacsi some tricks for the vet's office. How is she otherwise gonna earn her cookies?! ???


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## datacan

Hahaha

Sammy loves to meet Hunter, the vets office' mascot, a GSP. 

Ummm, yes I have poop proof, more than one picture on my iPhone... You wouldn't want me to post them, would you?
Oh, did one a while ago. 

So happy on Orijen....


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## Suliko

You mean - poop happy? ;D


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## AlmaPup

I didn't want to start another thread about first season symptoms.

Alma is almost a year old, her sister from the same litter is in heat right now, and I'm kind of expecting Alma's first heat soon.

I noticed she licks herself more than usually, and she has some mucus on her female parts 
Is this mucus normal?
It's white-yellow-y.


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## Suliko

AlmaPup, sorry, I didn't see your reply earlier... Did Alma start her heat? I hope everything went well 

Just wanted to give an update on Pacsi and her heat. After the first loooooong heat, false pregnancy, another random heat two months later and an infection, Pacsi finally is having her first NORMAL heat. Looks like her cycle is going to be like her mama's - every 6 months. She did bleed more than the past few times but this time everything seems to be going by the book. Couldn't be happier for her! She's a LOT less hormonal, but I feel the first heat changed her forever. Even though she loves Sophie, she isn't the friendliest dog around other dogs, especially males....especially young intact males : Oh well, that's something we'll always have to work on. Other than that, she's still my sweet, little Pacsirta


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