# Running Vizsla puppy



## MichelG

I started running with my young V (15 weeks). We ran 5 km (3 mi) on Sunday and 7 km (4.3 mi) today. She loves it (though she gets a bit frustrated as it reduces her opportunity to grab all sorts of things!!). Anyway, my question is... do you think it is safe to run distances up to 5 mi (and even beyondthat) with a puppy?

My vet said that she ran 17 km (10.5 mi) with a 4 months old V. Apparently, specialists seem to say it is no longer true that we should avoid repeated running impacts with young puppies.

Your views?....


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## Kafka

I think OrganicThoughts has a good point.
However, you didn't say how you run with your puppy. On leash? Trails/soft underground or pavement, fast run or slow jog? I think those are the most important issues.
Anything that is not off leash and soft ground is a big no for such a young puppy in my opinion. I think that letting your pup run off leash on dirt is great and if you prefer running instead of walking I think that is ok as long as you adjust to your pup's need. He should set the pace and you should monitor him carefully. As soon as he starts showing he is tired, it is time to stop. At four months my guess is an hour off leash play is probably enough.
I am no vet and it's better to be careful and patient when your puppy is young.
Also, pictures of your cute pup would be appreciated


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## Rudy

Zero of these mates are built for long borish running and this is also born blood, cell Pre DNA

They are great runners correct cutters '

natural cover sprinters even climbers  

Pointers are not long distant runners and this choice will age them and reduce them fast

facts 

There cutters there workers like 25 to 50 yards 100 yards max working under me and there turned back out all mother codes they all have and nature has made there plan not just Man who thinks he or she can 

A great hunt or push hunt could cover 20 to 30 miles yes if you gauged all the lands they cover and a all day push but a far different process and muscle groups needed as well 

Hate it dislike it age matters nothing

they are not human choice long distant runners 

Organics spot in 

A 2 or 3 miles on grass is fine jogging 

and I use Resistant train and gain cardio kites on mine for 40 yards resistant sprints

they same process I used on me pre fight

speed fast Group muscle and core strength almost always wins

speed is power'

speed kills 

Dem birds ;D Dem Critters ;D

those are there keys to Pro ball sports in the Fields and waters they so love 

BigPappapump SP1 lol ;D :

Fire in the hole?> 

Hard surfaces take never give


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## MilesMom

Use the search bar on the right for some great info on proper running progression. 

I am a marathon runner, I get it! It's hard to wait! I've got a 22 month old and a 5 month old. The puppy cries every time I take Miles out to run, but I tell him it's in his best interest! 

I run Miles now long distances, but >75% of his running is off leash on the trails or beaches, and 90% or more is on soft surfaces. We have a small paved road area we have to take to get to the beach. 

I would stop running that puppy. Again, use the search bar for proper progression. I'm shocked your vet condoned that.


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## MichelG

Hummm! Thanks everyone.
I'm doing this because the Vet told me it was OK. In fact she encouraged me to do it. I had planned to wait until she is 1 y-old.
Now, I will have to do a lot more research before I resume my running with her.

By the way, I did the running on a bike path. For most of the run I am on asphalt while she is on grass. She pulled me through most of the run. Yes, she was on leash but I was not pulling (forcing) her in any way. She loved it.

I disagree that dogs are not "built" for long distance running.


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## MilesMom

I fully believe that Chase could run 6+ miles at this time (5 months.) They are amazing! But body isn't ready yet. 

I also am not a fan of leashed long distance running, but I have no problem taking Miles out on a several hour run when he is off leash and free to pace/ roam/ explore as he pleases.


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## marathonman

People have mostly covered it, but I wanted to bring up one additional point for discussion. I'm not sure what your thoughts were on spaying, but it's healthier to wait as long as possible, especially if you are planning on running your pup. I won't go into too much detail here, as there are other threads on here devoted to the spay/neuter question. In short, hormones, especially ones produced in the reproductive organs have quite a bit to do with muscle development and fusing of growth plates. (V's plates don't fully fuse until around 18 months I believe.)


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## Rudy

This is how a pointer runs, stop, starts, sprints, climbs, works it out and abound ;D

long distant running breaks down joints and impacts all of it over time humans as well 

fact"

Never even load a V (jumping off the Pick Up or Down) 

GET A LOADING RAMP 

Its not macho its dumb and dull after a big push hunting or just fun it all matters More after working out the mates 

By season 5 maybe sooner your choices and chances and cares will be exposed 

even with great supplement choices and they can go 25 miles or more like this 

There DNA" is of Greatness

Make it a great choice for Reds

Your personal choices you make should or could match the dna codes and pre build of the mates personal disposition way before us ;D

there not eggs? ;D


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## Kevin

MichelG,

The below link may be of interest to you.

http://www.provet.co.uk/health/diagnostics/growthplatedogs.htm

Your running a puppy not a dog. All growth plates are still open and growing. All bones is still soft.

Yup your pup may run that 6 or so (or what ever miles) you do with full enjoyment and energy.

Ask your self this though, could you live with yourself if by mid age your vizsla has serious joint issues? we cant make you do things, but it is your choice on how you manage and avoid future risks.


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## MichelG

Thanks for the info.
I certainly don't want to take any chance and I'll stop my running with her.
I do have an other appointment with the Vet in a few weeks and I'll question her again on it.
I would like to know what evidence she has. Perhaps, she could point to a number of studies.... I don't know, but I am interested.

You all seem to agree that it is not good to run a puppy. That fact along with the feeling it may (inded) not be wise to ask a "baby" to run long distance, convinced me that I should stop. However, in all due respect, none of you have offered some solid evidence that this is improper. It is so called "common knowledge" but is it supported by direct experience/evidence from any of you? It happens often that new research brings new light on something that was established for a long time. Could it be such situation? That's all I'm asking... I'm asking to be given solid evidence... from the Vet as well as from people having the opposite view.
I hope I've expressed myself properly here, and that I do not come out too strongly. I don't mean any disrespect to anyone here.


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## v-john

Call your own vet and ask them, if you don't believe the advice you've been given here. No offense, but why ask the question here, if you aren't going to believe the responses that you are given? Just call your own vet then. Not trying to sound like a jerk, or disrespectful, but. 
If not, google works. Here is one article. 

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/12_2/features/Jogging-With-Your-Dog_16100-1.html


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## MichelG

I thought this might happen.... I not only called my Vet but I've seen her twice and she told me that it was ok to run with the pup twice. The first time, I did not follow through as I am difficult to convince (as you may have guessed already!). The second time she mentioned that she had run (and was still running) with a 4-month old pup. That did it for me.

Now the advice I receive here are of great importance to me and I've said already that I would stop running with my dog based on what was said here. What I'm trying to find out now is who is right?... my vet or this community? I guess that means I don't fully believe either source. The internet is also full of articles either ways. So how will I really know? I don't know... I'll let you know if I find out. If people have good evidence, i would be interested to know. In the meantime, my little lady will just walk with me (actually run around me while I walk!).

Thanks!


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## texasred

Have you asked your breeder?
Most will void any hip/elbow guaranties is they believe environmental factors played a part in the dog becoming HD.


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## v-john

My reasoning is this. 
If there is a chance of the dog having long term problems with it, then why chance it? 

Now, our litter of pups, the pups were out running around (free running) on their own in extremely large pasture ground at a very young age. 

As far as internet articles, it is up to you to determine a credible source. I find that "Whole Dog Journal" is a credible source but that's only my opinion. Now, if I read someone's blog about something, then it obviously is a different ball game.


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## Rudy

How many pointers did you care and raise from puppy to death?

John is correct Blogs are in most zero substances and most is copied information from others 

How many mates have you trained for others?

Whats your education level on supplements and food choices?

How many mates where you there Vet until pup to death?

What is your personal sporting back grounds and levels you exceeded?

This is not I read it topic just off a pc or any Fourm this is a earned life choice by doing and gained topic and care and vets please a few great ones the norms are clowns paid off by western big Pharmacy and very few know little about real whole natural foods and I am being kind here.

Find the best of both worlds Western meds and Natural Choices 

Your correct the PC is not the facts

Raw real remote is.

This is very dull a pup must grow MATURE AND PROTECT ITS JOINTS, MUSCLES AND BONES AND CORE immune functions, cell level changes, hormone changes and blood and all growing organs .


Or your risking a bump you may not be able to fix.

This is a choice not a chance

How many pointers you raised and handled that earned 18 years?

what real whole foods and supplement choices are you bracing to ensure some more protection?

I with grace know must humble this topic on this one I have the new version to read 

Forest Gump  ;D : in 3 d no glasses required 8) ;D


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## gabril1

As you said it yourself, would you make a baby run? Not really. Their joints are not mature and completely formed yet and are not yet trained to support that type of exercise. It is not particularly the fact that you are going to see an effect right now, which is what your Vet might be thinking. If you run with a puppy you will not see any physical immediate effects; however, there are some molecular, physiological effects happening at the level of their joints. Walking, in moderation, trains them and movement is absolutely necessary for appropriate development of the joint and muscle. If you’d like me to I could explain exactly how this works. This is movement that the individual does at their own rhythm and pace, critical in their embryonic development as well as the development until they reach maturity. Now, I will direct you to some papers that talk about the physiological and molecular effects of moderate running (not even strenuous exercise) in young dogs as well as old dogs. There appears to be deposition of extra material that in a long run can cause joint problems. Now, take into account that at this point in your puppy’s life, her bones are more flexible than they will be once she stops growing, which means that she can recover better (to for example a fracture) and that she is less prone to fracturing a bone but also means that because of this flexibility, her joints do an extra amount of work from which she actually needs to recover versus an adult dog whose joint is mature. This recovery, as is explained in the papers, may also affect her in the long run. In conclusion, she needs time to strengthen her body and this should be done at her on pace (now, she won’t realize what her limits are so this is your job as a “parent”). Conclusion: you need movement for proper development and strengthening of the joint just not too much because it have an opposite effect. In an adult dog, strenuous exercise will also damage a bone, but the difference is that strenuous exercise for an adult can be more than a 3-hour run but in a puppy it might be more than a 10 minute run. At the end its your decision but I hope this helps clarify.

Best,

Gabriela

Papers:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jbmr.5650071410/abstract
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.1092420204/abstract
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anr.1780321014/abstract
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/art.1780361018/abstract
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jor.1100060205/abstract

Ps. Might need a subscription or a university code to look at the full PDF but you can see the abstract which gives an overview of the experiment and the result. 

ps. none of the articles touch on how other things such as hormone levels affect joint development but this is an important topic as well that is worth researching.


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## MichelG

Thanks Gabril1.
This is very useful.
I appreciate it.


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## MichelG

gabril1 said:


> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jbmr.5650071410/abstract
> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.1092420204/abstract
> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anr.1780321014/abstract
> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/art.1780361018/abstract
> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jor.1100060205/abstract


I read all the abstracts. Interesting! 
I will bring these abstracts when I go visit the Vet next time.
Thanks again.


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## MichelG

organicthoughts said:


> Why not inquire on another vets opinion...... This one obviously has a leaning towards running a young dog, which is kind of shocking.


That would be ideal. However, there is time and cost involved. I will, for now, confront her with her statement (I already have an appointment).
In any case, unless she comes up with something really convincing, I am doing what's safe and stop running with my V.
If she does come up with something good, I'll post it here to get your opinions.

I've attached a picture of my torpido!


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## luv2laugh

thought i'd tune in here. it is obvious you want to do what is best for your puppy. 

- first of all, i don't think you are 'forcing' your baby to run. oso wanted to run, run, run at 4 months, 5 months, 6 months old. we would not be 'forcing' him to do anything. like milesmom said, we didn't allow it because we believed it wasn't best for him. he is a baby, he doesn't know his own limits. even if your v wants to run, i would refrain from doing so.

- secondly, our dog loves to run with us. even if his nature is to hunt - to start and stop whenever he pleases, sprint, jog, etc. he still loves to run on lead with us. it is a great bonding experience. he looks back at us and stays with us and there is an expression of pure joy. i always feel closer to him after we run together as a team. my v also enjoys biking with me, as well as hiking off lead. 

- thirdly, i encourage you to look at the articles. i would absolutely love to trust my vet on all matters. the truth is that not all veterinarians are created equally and they are people, just like us. some are very good at staying on top of current research and some just go with the status quo. it is also frustrating that you can ask 10 different veterinarians and, in some cases, get 3 or 4 different answers. i would request that your veterinarian give you the information on the research articles and specialist names so that you can pass it on to the forum. if he gives the information, please post it. to me it makes sense that their body is still developing, but the more information the better.

wishing you all the best with your v. you can probably find more links through google scholar or the search engine in this forum. we had a lot of difficulty waiting to run with oso in the beginning, but it got easier to wait as we went on. just thinking of the hip dysplasia did it for me. now he is 2 years old and hopefully we can exercise with him for the next 10 years. 

--- oh and i apologize for the lack of caps. i'm having a keyboard/computer issues.


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## MichelG

luv2laugh said:


> thought i'd tune in here. it is obvious you want to do what is best for your puppy.
> [...]
> wishing you all the best with your v. you can probably find more links through google scholar or the search engine in this forum. we had a lot of difficulty waiting to run with oso in the beginning, but it got easier to wait as we went on. just thinking of the hip dysplasia did it for me. now he is 2 years old and hopefully we can exercise with him for the next 10 years.


That sums it up really well!
Thanks.
Yes, I will follow through and post any information I get from her that could be useful.

Regards to all.


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## MichelG

Alright... I did have my appointment with the Vet and asked her to provide more information. It did took her a few weeks to get back to me, which explains the long delay in posting. What I got from her is NOT solid evidence for or against exercise in pups.

The Vet provided me with a few "discussions" on a "orthopetic surgeons" forum. I have attached the file (PDF) that contains those discussions to this post. As you will see, opinions differ between surgeons. However, you will notice that there are a number of Vets supporting the position that "exercise is not harmful" and that genetics is likely the dominant factor.

Having said that I was hoping for more solid evidence and that does not quite convince me that I should start running with my V. I'll still play it safe.


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## Sail

Only way a young puppy can exercise effectively.... is off leash in open fields. 

Running on pavement may be a little harsh on their soft skeletal structure and joints. 

Some advise puppy owners to limit the amount of steep downhill running at full tilt until fully grown. Uphill and flat land maybe different matter. Also, jumping from high placed items may be contraindicated (truck, truck beds come to mind).

As puppies run... let them run and chase in open fields


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## Rudy

That's a very sweet Pic and Great Hook thanks for sharing some information that's real to the Core


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## Darcy1311

If you run or over exercise your pup, you can seriously damage the growth plates in it's legs, I had a Weimaraner as a pup and I over exercised and did all sorts of damage to his growth plates and had to lead walk him for months, have you ever tried that with a gundog pup.........run your pup at your pup's peril my friend, we are only giving you friendly advice and when it's older it will run all day with you, no problem.. ;D


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