# Neutering Woes



## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

So, our little Oso boy is about 20 months old. He isn't neutered yet. We were waiting until he was 2 years. Well, my husband (who took over a lot of dog duty when I got pregnant), told me that Oso mounted another dog at the dog park today, so he had to leave. 

It was an unfair response to my husband, but I was livid - he allowed Oso to mount another dog? Oso hasn't mounted a dog since he was a young puppy. When I took him out, I would always stop him at the first sign that he wanted to mount. He would do other things, but never jump up. 

Now, the vast majority of dogs at the dog park are neutered/spayed, but I fear that just one mounting of an intact female can create puppies. I feel like the only responsible thing to do is to neuter the boy. It breaks my heart though. I really wanted to wait as long as possible.

Thoughts???


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## Oquirrh the V (Jun 24, 2011)

Lol. No offense. Why can't Oso mount dogs at the dog park? Okay, I don't encourage Oquirrh to mount anything, but he occasionally gets mounted and he occasionally mounts. I let him fend off the mounter and I will remove him from mounting, but I would not leave an area unless there was aggression involved in the mounting.

Do a little research on bitches in heat. There is only a short period of time where a bitch can become pregnant while she is in heat. Oquirrh is intact and we hang out with 2 intact females weekly (unless they are in heat). If a bitch is in heat at the dog park or on trails hiking, that is a huge no-no! I believe the owner of an intact female has the majority of the responsibility of not taking their bitch to public places while she is in heat.

Mounting at a dog park is more of a dominance (not in a bad way) thing and dogs will usually take care of the mounter themselves if they are concerned with it.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

luv2laugh said:


> So, our little Oso boy is about 20 months old. He isn't neutered yet. We were waiting until he was 2 years. Well, my husband (who took over a lot of dog duty when I got pregnant), told me that Oso mounted another dog at the dog park today, so he had to leave.
> 
> It was an unfair response to my husband, but I was livid - he allowed Oso to mount another dog? Oso hasn't mounted a dog since he was a young puppy.
> 
> Thoughts???



Our little spaniel mix, Lisa was 8 weeks old when she humped Sam in the head, LOL

PLEASE get out of the dog park. Dogs don't need them to stay balanced. 
I never went and feel no need to go. I walked and walked mostly off leash but did a whole lot of on leash walk as well. 
I always look forward to walking with my dog (SAM... Lisa is small and belongs to my wife but is trained by SAM, HAHA).

I call these daily walks "vitamin walks" because they are equivalent to vitamins, IMO... the health benefits are too many to even consider listing.

Personally, I would feel useless at the dog park...

There are plenty of balanced dogs we meet every day on our walks. We love meeting those dogs because the owners are very much like mined. Rest of the Yuppie owners go and sip coffee at the dog park, LOL.. keeps the parks and streets peaceful for us ;D

To put my dog in situations where it has to negotiate it's place in random packs is madness, IMO.

So sorry if this sounds harsh, we learned the hard way.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

L2L,

It isn't sexual but pack placement or excitability. Females not in heat will not put up with a male trying to mount. They will tell your boy off in no uncertain terms.

The chance of finding a female in the exact time of heat where you are not paying attention is very small.

Even when Bailey stayed with Sophie (who was in heat) for a few days, it was not until she was COMPLETELY ready, that she allowed it. Last time it was 3 days later and he had access 24/7, since we were trying to make puppies.

I agree with Datacan, Vizslas and dog parks are not the best match. Some HAVE to use them, but I will drive 30 minutes to an open space or walk the dogs on leash downtown before I subject either of mine to the neurotic dog parks in our area. But some lessions are best taught sometimes by other dogs.

Good luck.
RBD


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## candi30 (Jan 2, 2013)

I think it also depends on the park you are taking your dog to.
We have a park near us (no fences) with great dogs and great owners. Love taking Darby there.
There are others near us where the owners could care less and the dogs suck. We obviously avoid those.
So it depends.

We know the dogs and owners at the park we go to and it is fantastic.


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## Oquirrh the V (Jun 24, 2011)

This thread isn't about dog parks! I'm saying that in a nice voice.  The fact is, you don't need to neuter your dog just because it mounts other dogs.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Oh, but of course it has everything to do with dog parks. 

The ever changing structure of the loose dog pack is the problem. 
I did put the dog into loose temporary packs with ever harder dogs under supervision and both owners agreed on the rules. It helped Sam find his voice. 

Dogs are pack animals. Most owners underestimate how strong this drive is. It virtually governs their life. 

Do tell otherwise, I love to learn.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

He is a dog.
Correct him and then go about your business.
He will figure out it not tolerated at the park.

If a person brings a female in heat to a dog park you will be able to spot it right away. Even neutered males would be intrested in her, and a big dog fight would soon occur.


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## Oquirrh the V (Jun 24, 2011)

datacan said:


> Do tell otherwise, I love to learn.


There was no advice given on if the dog should be neutered or not. I admit, that since I don't go to dog parks anymore Oquirrh rarely has a reason to mount another dog or get mounted himself. But the concerns had nothing to do with if she should continue going to a dog park or not. I think the main subject should be how a bitch can get pregnant. No one should ever neuter a dog without the right facts. If she continues to go to a dog park, then she should know how the reproduction works. There are SEVERAL other discussions on dog parks that I'm sure L2L has read and considered.


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## redrover (Mar 17, 2011)

I won't negatively comment further on dog parks--I use them as well, and appreciated the earlier post about how to get through them unscathed.  Also, as a reminder to everyone, not all dog parks are created equal. Some are dogs-in-a-box (we avoid those). Some are dozens of acres, wooded, with ponds and wildlife and big open spaces so no one gets all clustered up--it just so happens that they're called a dog park, because dogs are allowed to be off-leash there, and it's often located within city limits. But one of those things is not like the other.

Back on topic: The mounting was very likely non-sexual. In many instances it isn't sexual at all. Dogs will mount for lots of reasons--play, excitement, sex, dominance, boredom, or because it just feels good to them. I think it's pretty unlikely that your boy would find an in-heat female at the park to impregnate (bitches in heat should be banned from any responsible dog park in the first place, and if an owner brings one...well...their fault, really), let alone a bitch in heat that would be receptive and ready for Oso to mount her.

I agree that mounting other dogs is a pretty normal, dog-like behavior. Some dogs do it a lot, some don't. But (and this just came up in the FB group for our local dog park, so I've been thinking about it) there is no guarantee how the recipient will take it. Some might enjoy it. Others might tolerate it. Some, like my boy, will not stand for it. There might be growling, correction snapping, and, if the dogs don't back down, a fight. In neither case would I consider the dog aggressive, nor would I expect either dog to require a muzzle (this was the topic up for debate on FB). Both dogs did normal doggy things. Some behaviorists suggest that you let your dog hump away at the dog park, as long as the other dog is fine with it. I have a couple of issues with that mentality:

1) Some people are pants at reading dog language. A dog doesn't have to actively be fighting off the mount for it to not be okay with what's happening.
2) Some dogs have quicker trigger fingers than others. If someone's dog is humping another across the park, the owners might not be fast enough to break it up before something happens.
3) Aside from the dogs, you never know how the other dog's owner will react. 

In the end, given the volatility of dog parks and changing pack structure, I wouldn't personally let my dog hump another. HOWEVER, if he managed to do so before I could stop it, or if I decided to become more laissez-faire about the whole thing, then I would also have to accept that any dog he humped has the right to react to the humping, and if it involves growling/snapping, or, if my dog doesn't back down, a fight, then that is a possible outcome of the behavior and it's not the other dog's fault.

So with all of this information in mind, it boils down to:

1) I think you are okay in correcting/preventing humping. Not because it's bad or unnatural or gross, but because it can lead to confrontations, between both dogs and owners.
2) I wouldn't consider it necessary to neuter Oso. This is because of stated info about bitches in heat, timing, etc., but also because neutering is not going to stop non-sexual humping. It might not even stop sexual humping. I've seen neutered males do their best to mount a bitch in heat before. It would only prevent Oso from being a father.


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

Miles gets humped constantly and by dogs who are neutered. He recently got neutered and did not hump before and doesn't hump now. Hence, I believe there is more behind humping than sexual drive and neutering him may not change it.Luckily Miles is fast and can outrun all the dogs trying to mount him. If this is the only behavior you are worried about I wouldn't neuter him if you don't want to.


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## mlwindc (Feb 8, 2013)

I wouldn't neuter just because of one isolated humping incident. Wilson (6 months) was humping at 2 months - well before his testicles came in! We have deterred it when it has happened and he doesn't do it now anymore. Our trainer (20+ years experience, including over a dozen V's) has said humping isn't correlated to neuter - most likely Oso just got excited and knowing that your husband was there instead of you, he decided to give it a go. I also agree with the above posters -- if a female dog is in heat and they bring her to the park, they are asking for it!!!


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

So it's that kind of thread... Straight humping thread... Great. 
Nothing to do with placing the dog willy nilly in packs... REALLY?

I still cannot understand and have never witnessed a dog straight running up to another and humping out the blue unless the dog is medicated. 

There is a host of protocol and body language before any humping commences. 

My Sam will never hump your dog first! I don't allow any T-boning, climbing, pinning down, sitting on another dog so humping cannot even commence. 

He will posture, bark back and will fight, if I don't step up and the other dog continues to be antisocial and aggressive. I admit, I had to work at it to bring him up to a level where he will stand his ground.


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## Oquirrh the V (Jun 24, 2011)

datacan - My dog is very opposite. He stands his ground with no hesitation and will hump a dog first. My dog has even humped a person at a dog park. :-[ Say what you will about my leadership, but I'm doing the best I know how and educating myself as much as I can about my dog.

I think this post should focus on the reason she is thinking about neutering her dog (i.e. pregnancy). 

The main thing I think L2L didn't realize is that a female dog cannot become pregnant just because it is being mounted/humped.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

My .02 is the *VAST majority of dog owners BELIEVE that humping is sexual*. Therefore any information shared on this forum to get the point across that humping has MANY reasons is good.

I will not let Bailey hump, but then again he doesn't need to now that he is fully grown. He is not a "middle of the pack" male.

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2009/12/history-and-misconceptions-of-dominance.html


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Oquirrh said:


> datacan - My dog is very opposite. He stands his ground with no hesitation and will hump a dog first. My dog has even humped a person at a dog park. :-[ Say what you will about my leadership, but I'm doing the best I know how and educating myself as much as I can about my dog.
> 
> I think this post should focus on the reason she is thinking about neutering her dog (i.e. pregnancy).
> 
> The main thing I think L2L didn't realize is that a female dog cannot become pregnant just because it is being mounted/humped.


No doubt you must be very prod of him. I would move mountains gain control and behave like my dog.


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## VictoriaW (Mar 16, 2011)

No one in their right mind would bring a bitch in heat to a dog park. Pregnancy is not an issue unless you are letting him roam unsupervised (seems unlikely!).

FWIW, dogs who allow other dogs to mount them tend not to be intact bitches (unless of course it is that magic week of the heat cycle). Gracie is *quite* sure to let male dogs know when it is time to back off.


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## Oquirrh the V (Jun 24, 2011)

> No doubt you must be very prod of him. I would move mountains gain control and behave like my dog.


 : I'm glad you focused on the key points in my last post. Calm down, take a deep breath. Let's not get this thread deleted as we can inform people by having it open. I don't think you and I are on the same subject here. We all realize that a bitch must be in heat to get pregnant, right? Was the original post not suggesting that she neuter her dog because he humped one dog?! Regardless of why or where the dog got humped, should we neuter a dog because it humped another dog?


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

luv2laugh said:


> Now, the vast majority of dogs at the dog park are neutered/spayed, but I fear that just one mounting of an intact female can create puppies. I feel like the only responsible thing to do is to neuter the boy. It breaks my heart though. I really wanted to wait as long as possible.
> 
> Thoughts???


I must be completely dyslexic, missed this part all together. 

I don't understand the reasoning here, poor Oso... It's not his fault at all.


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

YOUR HONOR


I PRE HUMPED THE GLOBE :

HOW DO YOU PLEA?

VICTIM YOUR HONOR ;D

I WAS JUST TRYING SOME FUN


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

I'm in between clients at work, but want to jump back into this discussion. 

Yes, poor Oso.  We are quite tough on him, but I don't feel so badly about it. We do a lot of great things with him too.  I have only seen two people bring their female dogs to the dog part while in heat (so unwise). Each instance, they stayed less than five minutes as the poor thing was surrounded by male dogs trying mount them. In those instances, I gave Oso the "no" noise and he backed off. He followed about 10 feet behind the crowd smelling all around. It gave me a sense of security that he would respond to my commands. 

Typically, when Oso exhibits pre-humping behavior, they are pretty obvious. They tend to be with older female dogs or with basset hounds (oddly). He gets obsessed with a dog, smelling or licking it's butt, genitals, mouth or ears and following it everywhere. I stop him at certain behaviors and he's allowed to follow the dog, but not mount it. If the dog doesn't mind, I let him do this a bit. But, we typically leave shortly after because he won't play with any other dogs (the whole point of the dog park) and just follows the dog of interest. It doesn't happen often, but it's happened enough that I am running out of room counting on fingers. 

As an 8 week old pup (maybe 10), he tried to hump me - dominance all the way. At night, we used let him hump a certain blanket, for what I assume was the sensation. One night he ejaculated and the mess was enough for me to stop that (again - poor Oso - I do feel for him!). 

When other dogs mount/hump other dogs or Oso at the park I don't care. It's not my call. If a dog harasses Oso to the point where he can't play and Oso keeps showing signs he doesn't like it or if he corrects the dog and the dog keeps ignoring his signals, I'll spray it with my compressed air and it'll go away after 1 or 2 sprays. It's amazingly never taken more than 2, they don't like the air. *I guess I feel that since Oso is not neutered he can not get away with an occasional mounting.* We let him off leash on hikes and once in a while we will run into another dog. If the circumstances lined up correctly and he mounted the dog or was too far away to listen to a quick "no" command and he produced little mixed vizsla babies, it would be a nightmare. I _know_ I would be partially responsible and even if I wasn't responsible, I couldn't let Oso's puppies end up anywhere than good homes. A mess. 

Anyways, because my husband doesn't have the control over the boy that I _think_ I do and he is doing the majority of the dog exercising these days, I felt the only way to be responsible was to get him neutered a few months early. Note: I have control issues and hormonal issues (as I am pregnant), so think I was overreacting a bit this morning. I have found the responses really interesting. 

I _have_ always thought Oso's behavior, with the smelling and licking, was sexual in nature. Perhaps I am wrong. I tend to like Oso to find playmates where they are playing instead of struggling for hierarchy. ex: taking turns being on top, lots of running, respecting each others signals, etc. I am not an expert in dog behavior or PACK behavior (at all), but have learned a lot since getting the boy in what is healthy, well-regulated doggy play behavior.


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## KB87 (Jan 30, 2012)

I think RBD is correct - most people instinctively think that humping is sexual. Most of the owners that I encounter at the dog park (yes, we go because H cannot be off leash) freak out when humping happens and think it's sexual in nature. It's immediately turned into a taboo dog park subject instead of a natural action by the dog.

Personally, our boy is not a humper and is not dominant. When he was evaluated for day care at 11 months I was told that he humped 2 other dogs (both male) that day which I was surprised about since he hadn't done it before, but I wasn't concerned about it because I knew it was a dominance situation which the day care confirmed. H has been mounted many, many times at the park both by males and females (both altered and unaltered). I do not interfere when he has been mounted as he needs to correct the action and get himself out of the situation, otherwise he is being submissive. So long as the action isn't aggressive and is merely dominance related, then I let them hash it out. If aggression is involved then it goes to a different level and is a different subject.

Although humping isn't an action that your dog often does, his choosing to do so the other day is all a matter of the situation- the dogs that were there, what signals they were giving each other, scent, etc. Most of the cues that dogs give each other we don't see and won't pick up on so it's hard to determine what may have sparked him to want to dominate another dog in a non-aggressive manner. I also don't think that neutering him will reduce his incidents of humping later on. Should he be neutered and in the same situation again I would venture to guess that he would be prone to humping. Personally, I would continue on as you would whether he had humped or not and wait until 24 months. And I would definitely give the hubby a little kiss to say sorry for getting a little frustrated with him for your dog's natural instincts


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## OttosMama (Oct 27, 2011)

Hi L2L!

Sounds like humping runs in the family for these two brothers! I can't remember if I told you this the other day or not, but Otto did hump another male vizsla recently. I was going on a trail run with Otto and some friends and their dogs. Otto had met the other V in the past and they managed fine together. This time, Otto immediately was interested in him. Interested in his backside, getting in his face, and then mounting him. I was horrified. Certainly you can imagine how incapable I was of correcting him being on a trail without definite boundaries. I was attempting to gain control, however the other owner who is extremely laid back kept telling me not to worry, that they will sort it out. 

Eventually they seemed to have sorted it out because Otto had stopped attempting to mount the other dog and their behavior seemed to be more playful. 

I was very upset because he hadn't done this since HE was 8 weeks old! My boyfriend then informed me that otto had been trying to mount dogs lately on their outings together!! I wasn't happy that he hadn't mentioned this to me!! 

I understand your reaction. Not only could you be responsible for unwanted pregnancies, but it also makes you appear that your dog "has no manners." I have searched this topic since otto's humping and mostly everyone described dogs that hump as not having manners. I wonder how owners that don't use an e-collar are able to correct this behavior. Dogs don't usually play on a leash.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

I just don't get what all the fuss is about??? Seriously they are dogs aren't they? If some other owner got upset about Astro, or Zsa Zsa for that matter humping their dog, I'd just tell them to get a life. Let the dog being humped correct your dog and get on with it. It's not such a big deal???? Dogs hump, as others have said for lots of reasons. Sometimes it's sexual, sometimes it's dominance, sometimes it's just good old plain excitement that has to have a release. If your dog humps another it's not a lack of pack order in your pack. It's not a lack of control on your part. It's not a sign of inadequate training. It's just dogs being dogs.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

So isn't humping an expression of excitement, anxiety, stress and play?

That's why it's so easy to correct. I don't allow my dog to express himself this way around other dogs. 

Between me and Sammy he humps when he's happy 

Then again, aren't the dogs a mirror image of the owners?


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## Vida (Dec 26, 2011)

iMO- 
Why a dog humps may remain a mystery ??? Until we can teach them to speak! 
In our human world it is unacceptable behavior- therefore,TEACH/TRAIN recall and 'leave it' commands.
At the first sign of any unwanted behavior, call the dog off.
I don't consider it a neuter or dog park problem. It's a training issue.


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## Vida (Dec 26, 2011)

Ozkar said:


> I just don't get what all the fuss is about??? Seriously they are dogs aren't they? If some other owner got upset about Astro, or Zsa Zsa for that matter humping their dog, I'd just tell them to get a life. Let the dog being humped correct your dog and get on with it. It's not such a big deal???? Dogs hump, as others have said for lots of reasons. Sometimes it's sexual, sometimes it's dominance, sometimes it's just good old plain excitement that has to have a release. If your dog humps another it's not a lack of pack order in your pack. It's not a lack of control on your part. It's not a sign of inadequate training. It's just dogs being
> dogs.
> Yeah :-\ ! Typical male response.... mount first ,ask second.
> It may be natural dog behavior ,but so is resource guarding :
> Don't agree Ozkar. Most peeps I meet would get pretty upset if my dog mounted theirs. Maybe it's a Uk thing?


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Vida, that's why a lot of people from the U.K. can't get along in Oz. In Oz, if it looks like a Duck, walks like a Duck and quacks like a Duck, we reckon there's a fair chance it's probably a Duck!!   In the U.K, you'd need some eloquent way to say it's a Duck for fear of offending someone.


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## Vida (Dec 26, 2011)

Yeah, we get it, it's a duck!
I just don't want the duck shagging me or my dog ;D
But then he's soo **** sexy 8)


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Vida said:


> iMO-
> Why a dog humps may remain a mystery ??? Until we can teach them to speak!
> *In our human world it is unacceptable behavior- therefore,TEACH/TRAIN recall and 'leave it' commands.
> At the first sign of any unwanted behavior, call the dog off.
> I don't consider it a neuter or dog park problem. It's a training issue.*


Great training opportunity. I never punish or yell, instead I talk to him like a basketball coach, pet him, send him out again. Have done it so many times the dog knows if it humps a timeout will surely follow. 
If he wants to stay out there he avoids humping other dogs...


Why does the iPhone automatically autocorrect humping to jumping every time :-[


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

datacan said:


> So isn't humping an expression of excitement, anxiety, stress and play?
> 
> That's why it's so easy to correct. I don't allow my dog to express himself this way around other dogs.
> 
> ...


Datacan, that is so funny. I guess my perspective is that dog's also will jump on people when they are happy or eat gross things like poop (which he now knows not to do also). Oh and I see Vida's response, I agree 100%. I guess I shouldn't worry if he mounts another dog once or twice as long as my husband is working on it with him. I, honestly, kind of flipped because I had just finished a discussion with a vet/friend the night before defending Oso's right to be intact. I told him that Oso listens to corrections and he said you can "never be fast enough." Well..... less than 24 hours later, the vet/friend was proven right.

A lot of it had to do with Oso being with my husband, but it's not my husband's fault. They're still figuring out certain parts of their relationship when I'm not there. If you live in the actual city of Los Angeles it is the _on the books law_ that your dog must be spayed/neutered by 4 months unless it can be classified as more than a pet. We live in LA county, not city, but there is a pervasive fixing early environment around me. I find myself often defending the boys right to be intact and the reasons why we wait. I often will say that if Oso had behavioral issues or aggression, we would snip him even though there is no guarantee it would work. Well........ 

I feel like neutered dogs can get away with behaviors that intact ones can't. If you're going to have an intact dog, it's got to be very well behaved, otherwise it is reinforcing untrue stereotypes (as fixed dogs mount, are aggressive, etc. just as often or more). Also, even if the impregnating thing is a small small chance, it's a real thought for me - as the responsibility is huge. A woman at the dog park brought her two dogs and told me one was the mom, one was the daughter. She was trying to wait until her dogs had several heats before spaying her. The dog was on leash with her teen daughter when a loos dog jumped on theirs and started mounting. She heard her daughter yelling and came out and said they were both pulling on the dog to get it off. They obviously were too late as they then had a litter to take care of and find homes for. Now, I don't actually know this woman, but the story surprised me. 

Ottosmama - our stories are VERY similar!! I don't know if the humping thing is genetic or just doggy , but odd that it is kicking in at the same time.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Vets are no trainers, IMO.

I have perfected the art of going to the vet for Sam's annual... 
I just nod my head, sometimes even scratch my head... they drop the subject real quick when I tell them there is no money for the operation. 

Sure it's embarrassing, I tried quoting studies thinking they will appreciate the info. 
All I got were sad looks, one of them even asked me to park in the handicapped parking space next time. 

It's funny how intact dog owners are held responsible for every dog poop left behind by other lazy dog owners. "It must be that dog, look at his hillbilly owner doesn't even neuter his dog". 

It's so ridiculous, walking off leash is almost unreal, no one believes it even if they see it. I sometimes walk the dog on a cat leash just to mess with them. 

L2L, if hubby needs to bond, the best way is to walk together. 
We sometimes walk residential suburban neighborhood streets for hours. Great for my back and belly fat just melted away after a few months. 
Belly button fat is considered reliable indicator for arterial fatty deposits, so I was told by my doctor who wants to borrow Sam to help slim down her hubby. 


Sorry, I jumped to conclusions assuming owners who don't walk their dogs must be a little fat.... simply not accurate. But assuming an AA diet, not hard to imagine.


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## Oquirrh the V (Jun 24, 2011)

I personally don't see the huge deal about humping. Stop the dog from doing it and move on. If the people around you have a problem with this, find new people to be around. As I said before, I have a friend with 2 intact females and when they are in heat they only get leashed walks in her neighborhood. We had a discussion that if a dog ran up and mounted her female she would do "anything" to get the dog off. This is all responsible dog ownership, for both owners. I also thought I would neuter Oquirrh at 2 years, but I don't see any reason in doing it. For now, he's intact and staying that way. And one of my biggest pet peeves about society is; who gives a crap what YOU look like when your dog is humping another dog. Let's stop worrying about what other people will think of us and get on with our lives.


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## OttosMama (Oct 27, 2011)

Oquirrh said:


> I personally don't see the huge deal about humping. Stop the dog from doing it and move on. If the people around you have a problem with this, find new people to be around. As I said before, I have a friend with 2 intact females and when they are in heat they only get leashed walks in her neighborhood. We had a discussion that if a dog ran up and mounted her female she would do "anything" to get the dog off. This is all responsible dog ownership, for both owners. I also thought I would neuter Oquirrh at 2 years, but I don't see any reason in doing it. For now, he's intact and staying that way. And one of my biggest pet peeves about society is; who gives a crap what YOU look like when your dog is humping another dog. Let's stop worrying about what other people will think of us and get on with our lives.


If that was directed to my first post, I didn't mean to sound like I actually care too much how other people view me, although it probably sounded that way, it wasn't my point at all - my point was more that I had read past posts and didn't care to hear that my dog a has "no manners" because he has humped. 

That being said, I have mixed feelings about the humping - because I know it is just something dogs do - so I am never upset with Otto for doing it. However, it bothers me when owners don't make an effort to correct their dog when Otto has been humped in the past. So when I was in our situation, I didn't want to make the owner of the other V feel uncomfortable because my dog was harassing his. The owner didn't care at all, but I try and keep in mind how I would feel in that situation.


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## Oquirrh the V (Jun 24, 2011)

There were a few things I read that made it sound like the persons cared too much what someone else would think of them because the dog was humping. I have mixed feelings about humping, as well. I don't think we have different views on this at all. It is embarrassing when Oquirrh humps another dog or person , but it happens. All you can do is correct it. I think the original post bothered me so much because I cannot even believe that someone would bring a female in full season to a dog park. I'm really confused by the original post also, because I assumed that L2L didn't realize that a bitch must be in heat to get pregnant. But now that I've heard stories that people really are dumb enough to bring a female dog, in heat to the dog park, of course that scares me more about having Oquirrh intact, although it won't make me neuter him until I am ready to.
L2L - if you have every intention of neutering him at 24 months, I don't really see much difference of having him neutered now at 20 months. I hope you realize that just because you neuter him, this doesn't mean that he won't ever hump another dog. If your only concern is puppies, then I understand.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

No, I'm pretty sure it was not directed at you, Oq may not have any interest in reading that far back. 
This is the first time I read of his intact two year old...
Looks like we're in the same boat, except we are stepped on by laws and bylaws like you wouldn't believe. 

I love days like today, cold and about to rain, no one outside to supervise the dog on or off leash. The moment the sun comes out and the temp becomes warmer complainers multiply like germs and the finger pointing commences. 
It's time to go a little more north.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Oquirrh said:


> L2L - if you have every intention of neutering him at 24 months, I don't really see much difference of having him neutered now at 20 months. I hope you realize that just because you neuter him, this doesn't mean that he won't ever hump another dog. If your only concern is puppies, then I understand.


It seems to me Sammy's chest grew in size during the last two months. He will be 26 months soon. 
He's speed and jumping ability also increased. He started to eat more and packed some more muscle.
We wrestle daily, it's the way we play... he is very gentle I have no bruises on my skin. 

Not sure if this is a final growth spur, definitely well worth the wait and see, IMO.


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Oquirrh said:


> L2L - if you have every intention of neutering him at 24 months, I don't really see much difference of having him neutered now at 20 months. I hope you realize that just because you neuter him, this doesn't mean that he won't ever hump another dog. If your only concern is puppies, then I understand.


Oquirrh and Datacan, these last two comments were actually where I thought the thread was going to go, not exactly where it did (thought it was informative to me how people responded). I'm sure I let people and society affect me, but it's almost my own belief (probably based on society's view) more than anything that impacts it. I've always felt that if I could not prevent my dog from mounting another, it would be my responsibility to get him neutered. These were conditions I put on myself as a "responsible owner." Maybe, they were extreme, but there all the same. I was wondering if those four months actually made a difference and probably should have just asked that question. I was curious whether I would get support for neutering him and have people tell me their dogs were neutered at 18 months and doing just fine or if people would tell me to wait it out. I was surprised that it turned into a conversation about mounting, but that just showed me how different the acceptability of the behavior is in different circles and among dog people. 

I obviously didn't articulate my thoughts that well. The dog at the dog park when my husband was there wasn't in heat. The whole post was more a lament because I have less control with hubby in charge and I don't want to neuter him early, yet have to go against my own "responsible owner" requirements in order to wait it out. This info about the dog further developing between 20 and 24 (or 26) months is really helpful and I'm thinking I should maybe just start a thread to get more input on that.


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## JaniceNes (Apr 27, 2013)

candi30 said:


> I think it also depends on the park you are taking your dog to.
> We have a park near us (no fences) with great dogs and great owners. Love taking Darby there.
> There are others near us where the owners could care less and the dogs suck. We obviously avoid those.
> So it depends.
> ...


What park do you take Darby to usually?


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