# Hunting fur, not feathers?



## Ozkar

I really want to take my dogs hunting. The joy I gain from watching them enjoy the hunt is what it's about for me. It's not necessarily for food, or for sport for me, it's about seeing my dogs do what they know they were born to do.

The issue is, I don't want to use a gun. for a few reasons. 

1. I see a lot of older hunting dogs who are stone deaf

2. Gun ownership laws in Australia are very restrictive and due to a past indiscretion (no biggie, drunk and disorderly in a public place) I am unlikely to gain a licence.

So, I have been thinking of other options. One is to find a shooter who wants a dog handler to work the birds. But, most hunters have their own hunting dogs, so that is a difficult thing to match up.

The other option I have been thinking of is Bow hunting. Cross bows are classified as a weapon here in Oz, in the same class as a firearm. However, a long bow, a re-curve bow and a compound bow, are all classified as sporting goods. So there are no licence requirements. 

With a bow I can hunt pigs, rabbits, foxes and any feral animals, such as feral cats and feral dogs. I can also hunt deer and only a permit is required for those and the permit does not require any checks on my criminal record. It's just a matter of paying a fee.

I have been researching it a little, have been and checked out what I would need in terms of equipment and a complete kit, bow, strings, triggers, arrows, arrow heads, carry bags etc., for as little as $600 for something which would last me a number of years. 

So, the question is, are there any of you who hunt fur and feathers, or even just fur? If so, I would love to gain some more insight into this, so any information would be appreciated.


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## hobbsy1010

Oz, found this site when researching how much a 'Hawk' (Goshawk/Harris Hawk) would cost me when and if we get to Australia!

Totally shocked to find that hunting with hawks is illegal down there!!

I also thought of bow hunting with the dog, could be quite a challenge with safety aspect and multiple dogs?
Let me know me know if you find anything, meanwhile take a look at this link I found.

http://www.aushunt.com.au/new/index...gory&layout=blog&id=34&Itemid=58&limitstart=5


Hobbsy


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## Ozkar

Wadda ya mean "if" you get here..... I was looking forward to showing you the ropes when you arrived....despite the restrictive hunting regs, it's an OK place to live.........

But.....yeah the freakin do gooders have put paid to lots of fun here in Aus.

I've joined an Aussie bow hunting forum and am searching through threads when I find the time. The dogs won't be a safety issue as we will be tracking for ages, they will range closely when asked. They hold point to, so that will give me a chance to position myself for a safe shot. 

I am kinda keen on this too, as there doesn't seem to be many people using Vizlas for fur and I thought I would do something different......!

Oh...and I',m posting pissed again....  So forgive me if it's ellegible...


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## hobbsy1010

You be carefull 'posting p....d', not to spill any over your new laptop!!!

Looks really cool, what I've seen about hunting with a bow.
Caught a program on TV the other night, where two young lads in Florida somewhere were extreme fishing for Carp with bows from a boat in the dark using flood lights from the boat.
There was definitely a skill to it but their strike rate was brilliant. 

Will PM you soon and let know where we are at with the Visa situation.


Hobbsy


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## redbirddog

I just picked up a long bow and a couple dozen arrows. Been wanting one for awhile. 

I was out at Hastings Island about a month ago and a hunter took one out of his truck with his bird dog. He hunts pheasant with the bow. With a good pointer that holds the birds until released it is able to be done according to this hunter. 

Don't know if I have the reaction time to do it. 

Ozkar, if you use a smaller gauge shot gun with light loads the noise is not that bad. With a good pointer with a good nose; YOU are ahead of the dog when you shoot as the dog holds point safely out of the way. If the bird flushes directly over the dog then don't shoot. Go out solo so others are not shooting over your dog. 

Just some suggestions.

To let go a heavy load in a 12 gauge right over a dog is bad for the dog's hearing, no doubt, but a 410 or 20 guage will take down most smaller birds.

Your dogs will love it. Here was my take on it a couple years ago.

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/10/hunt-for-dog-or-dog-for-hunt.html

Happy trails and trials,
RBD


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## hobbsy1010

Here's great example of how diverse these dogs can be in regards to different hunting disciplines.
Also take some time to scroll through his pictures/album, his dogs are a real credit to him, fine looking bunch. 

http://musket-wirehairedvizslas.co.uk/my-vizslas.php


Hobbsy


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## texasred

Ozkar I think a bow would be a great way to bypass all the gun laws and get the dogs into hunting. 
You would sure need to make sure the dogs are steady, or have a handler and a shooter. Dogs get pretty hyped up when game is involved. You would need to watch what arrow tips you use if your dog is making retrieves.
I know they make special tips for bird hunting.
Ive always wondered if bow hunting would be a great way to get a noise shy dog in the field.


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## gunnr

I see no reason that you can't hunt fur/fowl with a V and a Bow. I know I spend a lot of time getting mine to not chase fur,so they do it naturally.

I've a friend that can jump shoots ducks with a bow and Flu-Flu arrows and takes rabbits and squirels with Judo tips.
Neither of these arrows have a bladed tip, so they would be safe for the dog to be around. The Flu-Flu only flies a short distance with a limited lethal range. The Judo isn't designed to penetrate, but has a traditional range.
I don't see a problem.


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## Ozkar

I've done some more surfing and found a little more information.

Most of our state forests are open hunting on anything feral, such as Pigs, goats, Rabbits and Foxes and even feral dogs. Pigs are out of the question, pointing breeds are not the ideal dog for pig hunting. But all the others I have heard of people using Vizslas for and the Vizsla is also listed as an aproved hunting dog. They don't allow breeds of dogs to hunt here in oz unless they are pointer retriever dogs. Any attack or kill dogs are banned from hunting.

I've also located several areas within an hour of my house where it is legal to hunt. I can gain a DPI (Dept Primary Industries) licence to hunt fallow and Samba as well. It's not expensive and past history has no bearing on obraining one... just pay ya moneys and your licenced. 

So that opens things up even more. Once proficient I might try birds with it, but I am just unsure as to how that would work and will need to do some more research.

I am relishing the thought of packing up the gear, setting up a base camp and doing early morning and early evening hunts with the dogs and hopefully, having Rabbit, Goat, or Venison for dinner. If not, I can always catch a rainbow trout or open the can of backed beans....  The tent wouldn't be a pleasant place that night though....... It may lift off like the Hindenburg........


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## Ozkar

I popped a post up on a Bow forum here in Oz and was lucky enough to get a reply from a very experienced bow hunter, who also is a GSP breeder and has trained several Vizslas to hunt. He has invited me out in two weekends time, to go hunting with him, his best hunting buddy and me and my dogs. (I can only take two as the laws don't permit more than two dogs on a hunt). 

After some advice as to the choice of Bow, he also confirmed that the bow I have been researching and was most fondest of (PSE Stinger 50-60lbs) is also the best choice for me at this stage too. I can get geared up with everything I need for less than $700 Aussie sheckles..... Boy am I excited....

The place he is going to take me has fallow deer and he wants to see how the dogs react to the smell. I am investing in two check cords for the purpose. He says this will be necessary in order to train the dogs to range closer to me as opposed to hunting with a firearm.

Did I mention I'm excited????   

I know we won't be coming back with any bambi meat this trip, as it really is just for him to view my dogs behaviour more than for a real hunt. But we are going to do some "Stump Shooting" (Random vegetation targets) so he can also offer me some bow shooting tips. this guy has been doing it all his life and now uses a traditional bow (A Recurve or a Long bow depending) rather than the compound bow I will be starting with. But, I'm not at the point where I would be accurate enough with anything but a compound, so a recurve or long bow will have to wait a few years methinks.

Oh.. have I said that I'm excited????


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## texasred

A lot better to have a mentor, than the trial and error method.
He sounds like a good guy. Willing to pass on his time and knowledge.


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## R E McCraith

Oz - the bow may be the way to go - also look into field trials in your area - with a good dog the the people at the trial will line up to shoot over the pup !


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## kristen

Oskar,

This sounds really awesome! I am quite excited to see how this plays out. Please keep us posted!
Which two dogs are you gonna take; Astro and Zsa Zsa?


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## Ozkar

Kristen, this trip will be Astro and Zsa Zsa and we will review who comes next time based on how they react on this trip.

The problem I have with my boy Ozkar, is that he only gets two days a week with me and he really hasn't had the length of play hunting training which the other two have. He still has a strong prey drive, but he really just doesn't "Get it" quite yet. With Astro and Zsa Zsa, they understand "find" they understand the diffference between hunting for birds, or hunting for fur as I use a different find command for each. (find the bird or find the rabbit) 

But that's not to say that Ozkar couldn't be brought along with some training.

The guy who is taking me out has also offered to assist me in training the dogs too. He spent over an hour on the phone with me last night running through a few things. He is very knowledgeable and very experienced. Best of all, he thinks in very similar terms to me as to how to train a dog. He doesn't use any correction collars or electronic devices. He uses patience, a soft voice, consistency and repetition. 

One comment he made really set in concrete that he thinks along my lines. He said this.

"I can get a dog tap dancing on a table in a day with an E-collar, but I'd rather it take two weeks and have the dog happy to do it for me" that pretty much sums up my thoughts on dog training. 

He has good prior form to having achieved a trialling championship with the youngest dog ever to win it.


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## Ozkar

I ordered two 50ft check chords today in preparation for two weekends time when my new found bow hunting and gun dog training friend and I go out to seek out some fallow deer. 

On today's walks, I started practising keeping the dogs much closer. Astro isn't an issue, he hunts with me very closely and really responds well to my wishes. Little Zsa Zsa, I have probably made mistakes with already by allowing her to range so far in front of me on walks and she is a little more of a challenge. But I am sure I can fix that with some time.

Astro is a little champion. I had him ranging only a few feet in front of me today with his nose actively seeking scents. I honoured all his points (not sure if this is a good thing as sometimes he came up with nothing but a scent and no feathers or fur) but I figure If I praise him regularly when he gets on a scent, then he will get the hang of it eventually. I think he's the most likely to not run over prey. Zsa Zsa is too fast at the moment. She ran over two or three birds today in haste to get to the ones she sighted. Astro, honoured her point and he picked up the scraps though. 


Just on the subject of to hunt, or not to hunt, so as not to convolute the old dog new tricks thread........... I know for some it is just not possible to take their pup out hunting and to be honest, when I got a v, hunting was the last thing on my radar. But, 18 months on, I have changed my thinking. All because of how much joy I see in my dogs when we are out working a field or the bush. 

So, if you are a V owner who has no intention to hunt with your V, all I would say is keep an open mind. It truly is amazing and very fulfilling for us Humans to see our pups doing what they know they were born to do. I never see their tails wagging as fast as they do when they are onto a scent. 

I live in Melbourne, which for Oz is a major city (4 or 5 million people from memory). I live in the burbs, houses everywhere, busy streets etc., but I am making the effort because I just couldn't live with myself if I didn't allow them to explore this part of their being.


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## texasred

Zsa Zsa was just probably bred to range out farther. Not a training mistake, just in her genes. On honoring Astros points. Anytime I have second guessed a point its came back to bite me in the butt. More exposure to game will help him learn the difference between old scent and actual game. 
I'm sure will you will have plenty to work on after your weekend way.


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## kristen

I live in the biggest city in Canada, and had never considered hunting until I got Odin....but we've had him 6 months and I am already considering some sort of hunting! 
You are right, its amazing to see their natural abilities and drive, and I feel a bit like I am holding back my dog. But for now, Odin city hunts, and enjoys pointing at every pigeon on our walks.


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## hobbsy1010

Did I mention 'I'm' getting excited too


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## Ozkar

hobbsy1010 said:


> Oz, found this site when researching how much a 'Hawk' (Goshawk/Harris Hawk) would cost me when and if we get to Australia!
> 
> Totally shocked to find that hunting with hawks is illegal down there!!
> 
> I also thought of bow hunting with the dog, could be quite a challenge with safety aspect and multiple dogs?
> Let me know me know if you find anything, meanwhile take a look at this link I found.
> 
> http://www.aushunt.com.au/new/index...gory&layout=blog&id=34&Itemid=58&limitstart=5
> 
> 
> Hobbsy



Excited hey Hobbsy??? Any movement off the seam???  

Here is an excellent bow hunting forum with a lot of information. It's also where I met the guy who is assisting me with the dog training side of bow hunting. enjoy...

http://www.bowhunting-forum.com/forum.php See if you can pick out my user name without me needing to type it......  I'm sure you will pick it...........  (It's one of my old dog's name's, he was a cocker spaniel who lived till 15)


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## Ozkar

I kicked off the first step tonight by attending an introductory shoot at the bow club I am joining. I think as a bowman, I make a great dog trainer........... :-[ :-[ 

But, the pleasing thing is when I arrived there was a GSP and a GWP there. They allow you to bring your dogs....... Effing awesome!!! I immediately went and got mine out of the car and they had fun with the other two dogs in the club rooms while I had a practice shoot. I think this club is going to be a great fit, with lots of very like minded people who also use their dogs to hunt Deer. 

Not sure if I mentioned this previously..........but I'm excited!


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## redbirddog

You know all this talk about folks using their Vizslas for hunting is putting a big smile on my face. ;D ;D ;D

More, more, more of you get addicted to the sights and feels of what nature gave us. Get out of the cities and suburbs and find what has been there all the time.

It took Chloe and Bailey to get me out. Take the effort. Not so much for the dog but for yourselves.

You would be amazed at the transition a full dose of red bird dog in nature will do for your spirit.

Happy trails and trials,
RBD


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## Ozkar

I blame you partially mate ;D Your blog and your hunting and training posts got me all fired up, started me working the dogs more when out walking, training them to hold point and flush...... it's all your fault! 

But, you're spot on, about how much fun it is. But, I really want this more for my dogs than for me. For me, I could go another lifetime without ever taking a life. But, seeing the excitement and enjoyment it gives my dogs is my motivation. 

They loved the deer meat and went wild over the hoofs. 

As I mentioned previously, I know it's not always possible for every V owner to take their dog out in the bush, let alone take them hunting, but as suggested, if you can at all make it possible, I am sure you will see the reasons why.........


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## sniper john

Ozkar,
My vizsla Blaze is a fur and feather dog, and a few other things too. Often on the same hunt or the same day. I'm in Texas and have met purist quail hunters that would not hunt their dogs with mine because of it, but oh well. I have always been an all game hunter and do my own thing. 

I have bow hunted big game for over 30 years. Some small game with a bow for the challenge, but not very often. Like Squirrels in the trees with flu flu arrows, jumping ducks on the water with a bow, and especially rabbit hunting. If I were going to dedicate my time to hunting small game with a bow, I would choose a recurve in the lower poundage range within what is legal. That would make for some fast snap shooting or instinctual shooting and be a lot of fun IMO. 

You mentioned Pigs. Remember I said I was from Texas. I hunt feral hogs with my V sometimes as a stalking dog. It can be very exciting. Not sure I would use a bow though. My dog is not allowed to engage the hog once found. I want something that makes for a quick humane kill on the hogs so as not to have to deal with a wounded one in fight mode.


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## raps702

Sniper John- Welcome back, have not heard from you in awhile, we miss your creative and articulate blogs from your hunting adventures. Would love to see a picture of a wild hog, never seen one before....


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## sniper john

Don't want to hijack, but I am sure Ozkar will enjoy this seeing how they have wild pigs. I shot this hog hunting behind my Vizsla Blaze almost exactly 6 months ago in November. The meat from the hams was used with my waterfowl to have smoked sausage made.


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## Ozkar

Nice work SJ, that's a good sized piglet . I'll be staying away from pigs. They are nasty buggers over here and I think we will focus on Rabbits, Goats, Foxes and Deer. Great to see your V out with you. The bow club I am joining have several members who hunt over their dogs. No V's though, so they were interested when I brought Astro in to say Hi...


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## Ozkar

I haven't updated much of late on the fur training progress. My trainer has been distracted with his mum being ill. She has cancer, so he is focussed on her at the moment and rightfully so. It has slowed the dog training side of things, but he has been in regular contact with me with lots of helpful hints and tips and a few exercises to move things along till we get together.

Zsa Zsa is learning to range closer to me now, but still needs to be well controlled to stay within the range we will need for hunting Deer. Astro, well, what can I say..........he's turning in to a little champion. He is just so in tune with me I am beside myself. He watches me like a hawk, watches every move I make and reacts accordingly. 

Astro is now at the point where I don't even need to use voice commands or even to really guide or control him. He notices when I hunker down into stalk mode and he stalks just in front of me, using his nose to guide me to the prey. Each and every walk we take now, is totally focussed on hunting. Be it rabbits, Foxes, or whatever his brilliant nose turns up. He's a real team player and if he keeps progressing the way he is will end up being an amazing little fur finder. We worked over a rabbit warren a few days ago and I saw how clever he is. He positioned himself at the other side of the Blackberry bushes where the warren was, waited until I was in position, then he flushed out the rabbits. I think he was a little annoyed when I didn't catch it coming out the other side. But, I didn't have the bow with me, as we were in a local nature reserve which doesn't allow it. But, the point being, he "gets it". 

We are actually up at our hunting property as I type this, sitting in the tent on a cold night. It's a 3 dog night and all three are curled up under the blankets with me keeping each other warm. we hunted most of the day without any success. But, that's OK, we have tomorrow as well and may find something. If not, then we have all had a great time bush walking!  

There are lots of animals up here, just our skills that let us down today, with either myself, or one of the dogs giving away our presence before getting into a safe range to take a shot. 

We will continue the training tomorrow and hopefully come up with something to bring home. Even if it's just a rabbit. Might get the spotlight out later and see if we can't find one to have for Breakfast tomorrow. 

The property owner took this shot of a big Sambar Deer a few days ago (Ignore the date/time stamp, it isn't correct), so the Deer are here, we just need to become skilled enough to get close enough for Bow range.


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## texasred

Sounds like you and the dogs are having a good time and at the end of the day that's what really matters. One of my favorite hunts was a goose hunt that wasn't very productive. We only shot 3 that day. What made the hunt one of the best ever for me was having my husband, son and daughter in the field with me. 
The dogs may see it in a diffrent light though. Me and my husband were dove hunting in a strong wind. I wasn't putting enough lead on the birds and missed quite a few shots. My dog decided he would rather hunt with my husband that day, because he could retrieve more birds hunting with him.
Cash would sit next to me and whine softly while staring in my husband direction. I finally called him a traitor and sent him over to my husband.


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## Ozkar

Wow.....what an amazing weekend............. 8)

We headed up to the farm yesterday and have just arrived back. All three of my four legged family are exhausted and the two legged member isn't far from it either...........  

Please allow me to paint a little mental picture for you.............

When I say farm, it doesn't run any stock, nor does it produce any fruit, veggies or grains. It is simply a couple of hundred acres of land out in the bush. It borders one of our State Forests and is in our mountain country. It is very hilly (read really steep) and apart from a few patches is covered in bush and Tea Trees. 

Yesterday we focussed on rabbits and foxes. We spotted several, but never got close enough. The dogs were still ranging a little too far out in front. I was actually becoming frustrated by the end of the day, as they were flushing rabbits without permission!!! 

So this morning after we had breakfast and warmed up by the fire (it was 0 degrees Celsius overnight and didn't go past 13c all day) I took a different approach and decided to hunt the thick scrub and Tea Tree, rather than focus on the more open land where the Rabbits and Foxes are.

The terrain and thick scrub brought the dogs in closer to me, which was what we needed. It took a some "stern" commands for me to keep all three nice and close and stop them running too far ahead. But, within an hour, they started understanding what I wanted and for the final three hours, they were never more than 15 feet from me.......so the training is starting to pay dividends. 

It was slow going, with the terrain very steep and the bush very thick. We would take 6-8 steps, then stop and look and listen and sniff (All four of us...). Soon enough, Ozkar stood to a point. (That alone surprised me, as he hasn't had the amount of hunt training that Astro and Zsa Zsa have had, as I only have him three days per week) 

We all stopped and I squatted down on my haunches and listened, looked and sniffed along with the three dogs. I then heard the crack of a thick branch. We took a couple more steps and it appeared................... a MASSIVE Sambar Buck with nicely developed antlers. He would have been 250+ kgs and was a very healthy boy with a thick coat almost chocolate brown in colour.

We had the wind in our favour, with the warming day blowing the wind up the steep slope. I maintained the hand signals to keep the dogs by my side and we slowly took a few more steps. We looked, listened and sniffed together again. Then...another loud crack of a branch breaking. 

We hunkered down and backed into the bush at our side and slowly stalked our way down the gully towards the big buck. The breeze still in our face and the big Sambar Buck totally unaware of our presence. Over the next hour, we slowly stalked in closer and closer. The buck was happily feeding and was still totally oblivious to our presence. 

We managed to get within 25 metres of the Deer and then I squatted next to a fallen tree with some cover behind me. I slowly pulled an arrow out of the quiver and slid it into the arrow rest and pushed the nock onto the string. The dogs were sitting silently beside me and as I loaded the bow, all three started shivering with anticipation. I drew back on the bow, watching this beautiful big Sambar, nonchalantly feeding. I centred my 20 metre sight pin on his shoulder, then faded it slightly to his rear, aiming directly for the kill zone. 

I then let the bow back down, put the arrow back in the quiver and let him live for another day..............................  

Why you may ask, when I had such a clear shot did I not take it? Have I turned soft? 

No, it was a legal thing. I currently do not have my Deer permit. I will have it next week, but, I didn't have it yet, so felt it a safer option to let this one live till I am fully licensed to take him. 

After this event, all three of us where very tired. It was getting close to lunch time, so I slung the bow over the shoulder and we all walked down to the access road to make our way around the edge of the property and back up to the car to grab some lunch. At this point, I let the dogs free run and stopped making them walk with me.

They happily sprinted up the access road in front of me till they were a good 50 metres away. Then, all three made a 90 degree right turn and headed into the bush. Next thing I hear is the crashing of broken branches and the heavy thumping of hooves on the ground. Then, I got the surprise of my life, as the dogs had scented a big Sambar Doe of 150kgs or more (She was chest high to me and I am 5'11"). The Doe in her desperate attempt to get away from the dogs, ran out of the bush and across the access track no more than 10 feet in front of me, before diving over a fence and into the neighbouring property. Lesson #1............. when in the bush, always be hunting!!!!  

Needless to say, the Deer permit will be completed this week and next weekend, we will be back up there trying to find that big buck again. 

The pleasing thing, was that all three of the dogs, once I asserted myself, became the best hunting partners a man could wish for........ It's slow going, but we are getting there. 

I took a few pics with my phone to give you an idea of the terrain and will post them up shortly. 

The pups all fell asleep the moment their little heads hit the car seats and they didn't stir for the entire two hour drive back home


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## Ozkar

Pics


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## R E McCraith

Oz - if I can ever down load the pic of a 6/7 elk taken by bow by a great friend and hunting buddy in eastren KY - you will be hooked for life if not already - talk about great eating - it does not get better than this - hunt well - the kill will be your choice and your's alone


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## hotmischief

Beautiful scenery Oz. glad you had a great weekend


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## Ozkar

R said:


> Oz - if I can ever down load the pic of a 6/7 elk taken by bow by a great friend and hunting buddy in eastren KY - you will be hooked for life if not already - talk about great eating - it does not get better than this - hunt well - the kill will be your choice and your's alone


Only one thing stopped me letting that arrow loose.........and that was the legalities. I wouldn't want to pulled up by a ranger with a boot full of Deer meat and no permit!!!  The dogs were a little miffed methinks......but we'll make up for it next weekend.........

The property owner wants me to take as many Deer as I can, as he values his trees...........! I want to take as many as I can use, as I value Venison as a food!!!!


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## texasred

Good call on waiting till your permit is in hand.
Enjoyed the pictures and the story.


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## hobbsy1010

You lucky Bugger.......

Looks like and sounds like you've found Heaven 

So jealous!! You must have been working on your 'Gang' quite a bit over the last few weeks, sounds like they didn't let you down.

I can sense your excitement through your post, so happy for you 

Can't believe all 'Three' went with you and behaved!

Glad you didn't rush into your first kill, only you will know when it will be right for you 
Ooohh Yeah it's always handy to have the 'Permit' in your pocket 

You didn't mention who you went with, or did you go alone?

Just wondering, do you have to Gut/Dress the deer in the field?
Have you had any practice in this? I know you were brought up on a farm, I'm guessing You probably know your way around the different Cut's?
Sorry to be a bit macabre just very interested 

Ooohh yeah scenery looks spectacular great pics   

I'm thinking you got your Rig fixed!!! Did it hurt the wallet???

Hobbsy


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## Ozkar

Yeah Hobbsy its heaven on a stick up there......bloody cold though the steep country soon warms the blood.

Took all three. went by myself. Took some time to settle them but once stalking they were pretty good.

Have since found out i could have taken the shot as it was on private property and not in the state forest. No permits required  ..... Next time.

As for field dressing I've never done a Deer but know my way around sheep and cattle so can't see it being much different. Did some views on youtube to refresh my memory. 

if in rugged country a long way from camp i would 1/4 it and take the back straps and tenderloin if close to camp, gut and carry it back so no wastage.

I'll take you and your wirey friends up there when you get here.........


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## Ozkar

Deer permit is done. Broadheads sharpened and fitted to the arrows. Long weekend here in Oz, so hopefully plenty of hunt time for the four of us. I'll keep you posted. 8)


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## Ozkar

Just tried to sharpen the Tusker two blade broadheads. Used the same technique as I did with my Montec G5's. But bloody ****, I can't get an edge on the Tuskers. Might have to go up to my local butcher and see if he can get them to sharpen up. 

Sniper John....where are you mate???? I need your advice   

Anyone heard from him??? He OK?????


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## Ozkar

Just got back, I'm tired, the dogs are tired.....those hills are steep and the Tea Tree is thick. Sighted two foxes and a couple of Rabbits. Oh dear, no Deer!  But.... it was a lovely day for a walk in the bush and the dogs have almost got it down perfectly. They now stalk with me and they pointed the two foxes before I eyeballed them. I wouldn't have seen them had it not been for Astro locking into a point and the others honouring. I just followed where the three noses were pointed and sure enough, there were Mr and Mrs Fox standing 40 metres downhill at 11 o'clock but there was also thick Tea Tree between us. We watched as they came out of the thicker bush from below, then they eyeballed us. They reversed tracks and went back into the bush. We picked up there scent a few times after that, with them shadowing us in the thicker bush for a while, before they headed further around the hill. 

We heard some branches breaking further around the hill, but couldn't approach from that direction as the wind would have been behind us. So we went back up the hill to the top and crossed around to where I thought they were heading and the place we had seen them last weekend. We slowly made our way along the Deer trails stopping every few yards to listen and see if the dogs could pick up a scent. We heard more branches breaking about 100 metres in front and slowly made our way further down the hill. We got to the bottom and the edge of the property with no further sign and the dogs couldn't pick up a scent trail, so I figured we missed whatever it was. 

There were lots of fresh tracks, but we never sighted any for the rest of the day. By 3 pm, the dogs were exhausted physically and mentally and so was I.......They slept, while I drove the 2 hours to home.........................................................gotta teach one of them to drive.


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## Gingernutter

Sounds like a perfect day out ozkar


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## Ozkar

Apart from dragging themselves out to the kitchen for dinner, all three slept till 7.30am this morning. They barely moved all night. 8)


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## Ozkar

No work for me for the rest of June and maybe July, so I have packed the camper trailer and taken off with Astro and Zsa Zsa. No Ozkar unfortunately, as his mum couldn't bare to have him away for that long.

We took off either Sunday or Monday morning, I can;t remember really, I've lost track of time being out in the bush for so long. Here is a brief summary of what's gone on since then.

Day 1. Set up camp. Beautiful day, but very cold. The pic of the camp was taken late that afternoon.

Day 2. Walked to the top of the mountain. Didn't take the bow, just used it as a training and scouting exercise. Got honked at by a Buck 100 metres from camp, saw a herd on the next bluff, but Zsa Zsa got excited and broke heal and they got spooked.

Day 3. Another great day, walked to the top of the mountain. Worked out where they were heading to and coming from. Wind was not our friend however and we got close to several, but not close enough before they winded or spotted us. Drove into town that evening to catch up with a friend. Got a coffee, had a chat, got news of a flash flood warning for the river I was camped on and the weather forecast for the next week being torrential rain and wind with a cold front. Noice! 
Last night we managed to stay warm and dry, despite the wind and rain. A hot water bottle is a wonderful thing isn't it!! 

Day 4. Had to pack up camp in the morning as the river had risen fast and if I delayed any further, all my gear would be floating away. As it was, I timed it to perfection with us just making it out of the camp ground by taking a 2nd go at it and a longer run up. The 2WD sedan did not have a great deal of traction trying to cross a foot of rushing water. It was close! 

After the wash out, A timely text message from a mate who lives close by had me setting up camp on the verandah of an old rifle club. It still has three functioning ranges too, so plenty of places to practice my form  It's also got a roof and a wooden floor, so we are warm and dry and no chance of being washed downstream. I have the genie going powering the laptop, some lights, and a heater in the tent!!!! Soft I know, but it's -C by a few degrees the last few nights, so a hot water bottle and the heater to pre heat the bed and tent keeps us warm all night. I wish I had Ozkar here too, as it really is a three dog night tonight. Snow on the peaks down to 600 metres tonight and we are only 100 metres from there !! 

I'll keep you posted as the trip progresses..........


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## texasred

Glad you and the dogs made it out safe and sound. A small radio for the weather channel with batteries can be a lifesaver when out camping. Extra batteries are a must. Next let a close friend know your plans (date coming home) and the location of your camp site.
You can even check in with them by sending a text once a day. Leave a note pad at camp with the section and date that you will be hunting that day.
That way you get the solitude of the outdoors but they can call in the troops if you get in trouble. Accidents happen and you don't want it to be days before your found.


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## Ozkar

TR.. Don't worry so much!!!  .. Radio... I have three. One little transistor, one in the car and one in my phone. Medical kit in backpack whenever away from camp. Mainly for the dogs. But it has a space blanket and a few other bits should I need to camp out while injured on a walk. Hootchie (Tent fly with parachord ropes to create waterproof shelter), Fire lighting equipment, hydro pack (But we are never more than a klm from water around here, especially at the moment.....  ) torch, charged mobile phone with GPS and spare battery. Flare, Portable shovel (That's mainly to bury entrails should I take something....... stops wild dogs, foxes and dingoes from having an easy food source), Some "One Square Meal" bars, which have 1/3 of your daily requirements for food as well as a couple of other bits like binoculars and of course the Bow. Also always carry some Allens Snakes or Jelly babies as they are a good source of energy when you need it. 

If I got stuck in the mountains for some reason, I could survive three of four nights without getting to food or water. No mobile reception where I was originally, hence no posts the first few days. Now I am in a place where if i don't make it home, my mate will know and come find me. He knows where roughly I will be. 


We all slept in this morning. Moving camp yesterday was a bit of an epic. It never stopped raining for the entire time I was packing up and setting up again. I went through a set of waterproof gear in the morning packing up and then put some fresh, dry and warm clothes on for the set up of the new camp and ended up saturated in them too. It has been horridly wet and cold. I say I in all this, as the dogs kicked back in the warm and dry car while I did all the loading and unloading. Lazy buggers best earn their keep this week and help me catch a Deer or two. 

It poured with rain all night, stopped about 6am for half an hour, then kicked back into full swing and has not stopped since. The forecast tells me that it will clear a little this afternoon, but you know how the buggers lie!!!  But, if I can get a dry patch, I am going to take the generator up to the gen shed and plug it into the building's electrical system. That way I will not only have power, but it will also operate the electric water pump from the rainwater tank. That way I can just turn the tap on and have water, rather than walk out to the water tank and fill my water drums when I need water. 

There are some Wombats who have taken up living under the club house. The dogs can smell them whenever they come out of their burrows. I don't think the wombats will stick around long, once they smell the dogs around for a few days. Pretty solitary creatures our Wombats. Don't want the dogs going near them, as while they are not aggressive or a predator, they are literally built like a brick dunny (That's a brick outside toilet for you guys n gals over the pond.) You don't want to hit one in a car, they will destroy control arms and suspension and chassis components. But as for the dogs, what the sneaky buggers do, is lure a predator into the burrow, they then slide under the predator and stand up and crush the animal against the roof of the burrow. They are powerful it wouldn't take too long to crush a dog.

The pups are bored, it's 9.30am and we have not left camp yet. As I said, too wet. I'll keep you posted when something interesting happens. I'm just bored at the moment, had nothing to do, so though this would occupy some time!  Ciao.


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## texasred

How does wombat taste? ;D


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## harrigab

TexasRed said:


> How does wombat taste? ;D


with it's tongue.......(groan.....) lol!


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## Ozkar

Ive never eaten it, but the Aborigines even consider it something you might eat if you were desperate!! Roo, Wallaby, Croc, Emu all taste great though, so there is probably no need to eat them. 

Had a cruisy day today. Pretty tired from yesterdays epic camp relocation to find high ground from the rising water. Didn't get out of the tent until after 9. Had breakfast, then back to the tent. Did a few domestic chores, then got a break in the rain and went out for a few hours walk. Not far, only travelled about a klm. Take two steps, stop, look, listen, sniff, glass......... take two more steps........... repeat process.

I judged the return to camp well, not sooner had we put the bill on for a cuppa tea, that the rain started again. So I had a cuppa, the pups had a bone and then we all three curled up under the blankets in the tent with the door open and watched the rain fall as we all fell asleep. Sleeping with my dogs is one of the greatest joys of my life. I lay there with Astro on my left and Zsa Zsa on my right, and arm wrapped around each of them and we all drifted off to sleep with the sound of the rain to calm us.

An hour later the sun came out and shone bright through the open tent door. We decided it was time to go for another walk. Over the other side of the hill this afternoon to see if we could find anything. Nothing again. Got close to a bunny, but Zsa Zsa broke ranks just before I was going to release and the bunny bolted. So no rabbit stew tonight for us.

We went back to camp about 5.30 and I opened up the camp trailer to get something out. As I moved one of the boxes which has plates and cups in it wrapped in newspaper, the paper rustled!! I looked in the box to see a rather large native mouse which had hitchiked with us from the river camp to here. It had to be from the river, as the trailer has been locked since we got here. I pulled the box out to have a look and the cute little mouse just looked up at me. I put the box on the ground and let the dogs have a sniff. They each in turn pushed their noses in to have a sniff at this little creature. I watched carefully as I didn't want them to be bitten by it. But, it just raised up on it's hind legs and sniffed back at them, no fear, no aggression. I was surprised as I thought it would bite from fear. But it was just as curious about them, as they were about it. 

However, it didn't like me trying to touch it and everytime I went for the scruff of it's neck to pick it up, it tried to nip me. Because they often carry nasties, I didn't want to be bitten. So, I grabbed a pair of scissors which was in the box and tapped it on the back of the head. Then I gave it to the dogs to play. It kept them amused for 20 mins while I sorted their and my dinner. 

So here is the mighty beast the brave little hunters captured today..................


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## mswhipple

At present, Willie is obsessed with the "small and furry" creatures -- the chipmunks that have the nerve to come into his yard. He hunts them for long periods of time, with limited success.


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## Ozkar

This is all we came across today. Apparently they taste pretty good though. 

Last night i also took a crappy phone pic as it got dark. it looked great from my eyes but not so good from the lense.


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## texasred

Antler sheds are great for many things. Ive seen knife handles, coat rakes and even lamps and chandeliers made out of them. 
I would consider that a good find and some people train their dogs to find them.


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## Ozkar

Well, I am a happy boy this morning. I hadn't said much, but little Astro didn't respond too well to being out in the bush initially this time. He has been camping with me several times before and never had any confidence issues. But this trip started horribly for some reason, with him shivering and shaking for the first few nights, a fear of the fire, so much so, that he would not come within 50 foot of the campsite while the fire was going and was just generally on edge. 

I pretty much just ignored it and carried on as though nothing was any different. Well, yesterday, last night and this morning, he is back to his old confident self.   We all slept like logs last night and didn't get out of bed this morning until 8am. Nice!! 

Yesterday we did two hunts. (Read walks).....  

In the morning we went out, but we were too late as the deer tracks showed that the deer had already been through the area. So we then went back to the camp, had a snooze and went looking for bunnies for an hour. Then about 4.30 we went out for another hunt, reversing the mornings hunt, in the hope of catching them travelling back up the mountain to bed for the night. It's like a bit of a Deer Freeway around here. Just got to pick which offramp they will use each day.

As we approached a wallow where I know they frequent, I spotted a nice healthy Doe feeding near some blackberry bushes. I hunkered down into a stalk and blended into the bushes behind me. Astro and Zsa Zsa right at my side doing the same. We slowly stalked in. The dogs had not spotted the Doe yet, but knew I had seen something and were nosing the air and looking trying to see what it was. 

As we crested the ridge above the Doe, I started to load the bow with an arrow. We were almost within range. All I had to do, was slowly move forward another 10 metres and I was in a 100% kill zone where I knew I couldn't miss and I could guarantee that the Deer would go down instantly. 

It was at this point that little Zsa Zsa saw what I was stalking and couldn't help herself.....she bolted for it!  It heard her instantly and took off in the other direction never to be seen again.)

I didn't admonish her. I just said to her in a whimsical voice when she returned.... "See.........look what happens when we don't work as a team. My job is to hit it, your job is to track and find it.....you OK with that?.................... Next time you wait and we'll have yummy Venison steaks for dinner...you'll see." 

Little Astro was looking at her with an incredulous look on his face, as if to say....."why'd you do that??? You scared it away!!....silly girl..."

It's pouring with rain right now and while it's a good time to be out hunting, we are laying in bed digesting breakfast. The deer will have to wait. I don't care if we miss some, there will be plenty more we find in time. 

The Antler was a great find. The two of them have been taking turns trying to gnaw it away since they found it. It would have made a nice ornament or even a knife handle, but I wanted the dogs to get more of a feel and smell for what we were hunting, so let them have it.

I'll update you next something interesting occurs. It's been 8 or so days in the bush so far and while we have come close, we still have not managed to even fire a shot at anything. But, it's been a great training tool. On yesterday's hunt in the evening, apart from when Zsa Zsa broke ranks, the two of them followed my every footstep. Literally. I took two steps and stop, they took two steps beside me and stopped. I am very pleased with how they are getting the idea more and more each day. 

All without any formal training, as I am still yet to get together with my new trainer as his mum is very sick. I think by the time he is ready, I may not need him anymore. Each day they get better and better at it. Eventually it will all click!

Ciao.....


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## texasred

Sounds like things are going good.
Dogs learn by trial and error and Zsa Zsa is learning what doesn't work.
Just don't let it be come a habit, she may decide that its just fun to chase.
You might want to start working her on a stay and a release command.
Because you are bow hunting I would try and transfer the commands to hand signals so you can use either in the field.


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## Ozkar

yeah...i am already using handsignals, as with a bow you need to be a lot closer in to take a shot, so silence is important. She just got excited and when I attached my release aid to the bow, I had both hands occupied. i think she saw my hand not held flat and thought it was ok to go. i am going to take the leads along next time, so once stalking I will clip them on and know they won't break heel. She will get it eventually. Sorry for lack of capitals, i'm one hand typing as Zsa Zsa is curled up on my arm asleep  Some keys are close enough to the shift key to use upper case...others aren't.....


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## texasred

Its the same way with shooting a gun, bow is just harder. Hands are occupied. A word of caution on shooting a bow (or gun)with a dog clipped to you. Zsa Zsa just has a lot of prey drive. Its a good thing but it may take her a little longer to contain the excitement, and stay until released.
I love dogs that have her drive, they are definitely worth the extra effort.

If she knows the commands have you thought about buying some live bunnies?
That way she can practice with the excitement of real game.
If you stay till sent you get to retrive the bunny. If you break you just get walked away.


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## Ozkar

Luckily TR, Zsa Zsa is only 20 kgs. My big monster boy Astro would be a different story if he ever REALLY wanted to go. He is near on 40kgs now. But yeah, It's always in the back of my mind to be very careful with my bow. I used guns around dogs on the farm growing up, so have an acute sense of awareness when it comes to weapons, but would never forgive myself if I hurt one of my pups. I do this whole hunting thing for them, not me. To be honest, I find it really taxing on me. I can only manage about two hours a day. In that time we may only cover a klm or two as I'm not all that well still.


Today and yesterday were days off from hunting. We did do two walks each day, but didn't take the bow and let them free run. It was interesting and to be honest, I think it was a worthwhile exercise. Zsa Zsa was a really good girl on the 2nd part of the walk. So in future, I'm going to take them for a free walk first, then we will start hunting.

Yesterday I had to go back to town. I swapped some motorcycle gear I wasn't using for a Roof Top Tent to go on the camper trailer. It's a bloody brilliant set up, with the tent folding out from the side of the trailer and another room zipping to the under side of the tent to form a kitchen/lounge room. Plus the tent has a proper mattress in it. Well, a foam mattress, but not an air mattress. It's Oooooooo so comfy! 

So yesterday we drove down to the city in the car, threw the roof racks on the car, dropped of the bike gear and picked up the tent. I just roped it to the roof racks, as I wanted to mount it on the trailer, not the car. That way, when camp is set up, I don't have to pack up to go to town or drive to another hunting spot. 

Here are some pics of the new home away from home. I didn't have the annex attached for the pics, but it a fully enclosed room including a floor which just zips under the top tent. It's waterproof and it has fly screens. 

Also attached are some pics of where we have been camping for the past two weeks after moving from the river camp to escape the flash flooding. It's a PFA view I tell ya!!!


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## texasred

The tent looks sweet. 
Me and the dogs always eat after a morning hunt and then crash for 2 hours. There is noway I would make the evening hunt without my nap.
My husband always laughs tells everyone "You don't want to be around her if she misses her nap." 
Its true, lack of sleep makes me mean.
Going on 3-4 hours sleep at night I can't function past 1pm or 2pm without a nap and the dogs pile up with me.


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## hobbsy1010

Living the 'Dream'......

Nice setup you got going there Oz 

Have I got this right? Sleeping quarters off the ground up on the 'First Floor', kitchen and extra room on the ground all concealed if required?
Sounds like your getting some good night's sleep, in your 'home from home'
I like it.....  

Lovely scenery up there, any small holding's up for sale ????

Hobbsy


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## Ozkar

actually Hobbsy, there are lots of places for sale up here. Bush fires decimated the area on black saturday which you probably either saw on your news, or read in your newspapers. It destroyed thousands of homes, and literally millions of acres of bush and farm land. Mostly though, people who were fire smart and had protected around their house by clearing the trees from close to the house all survived. Lots of "Greenies" who refused to clear trees as it is "wrong" all got burned out. Several lost their lives. A high price to pay for not cutting down a few trees and clearing a little bush around your house. 

It's not to say that this area is unsafe in any way. The property I am on could have a bush fire come through without damage to any of the buildings. Fences and bush would be burnt out, but the buildings are all bushfire prepared. So it's just a matter of being smart.

Most of the properties for sale are not in any danger as such. So Google up real estate for The following places and see if you like it Hobbsy. 

Alexandra
Eildon
Snobs ck
Mansfield
Taggerty
Buxton
Thornton

All in the state of Victoria. (Which is a nice temperate climate for you thick blooded poms!


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## Ozkar

Had another cruisey day today. We had a nocturnal visitor at about 11pm last night. A Sambar Deer honking it's head off as loud as it could for about an hour or more on and off. The first honk sounded like it was only 50 metres from the camp. The dogs went nuts when they heard it. I was tempted to get out of bed, pick up the bow and go deal with it. But it is illegal to hunt Deer in Oz an hour after sundown and not before an hour before sunrise, so it lived another day. 

But it took the dogs ages to settle back down. I just kept telling them it was a Deer everytime they heard it honk. (It was a really loud and hi pitched honk from this Deer. It startled me the first time too as it was so close) the dogs barking had no effect on it. It stayed where it was and kept honking. 

Then, this morning at 5am, it started up again. This time, the dogs must have been so tired that they just ignored it thankfully. But the Deer was in pretty much the same spot as it was last night. We went around to where we heard the honking this morning and could see where the Deer had bedded down for the night. I could see the prints from where it came in and which way it went when it left. But by the time we got our sorry lazy arses out of bed and had breakfast, the Deer had moved on down the hill. 

It's colder and raining tonight, so hopefully the Deer will sleep some place else tonight. I love them, but **** this one was loud last night. If it happens again tonight, I will try and record it and post it up. It's pretty cool having big Sambar Deer honking at you, even if it does erode the sleep somewhat...  

Oh...and we went into town today to the gunshop and bought a Fox whistle. Going to try and whistle up this big fox we have seen a couple of times in the last two weeks. It's got an amazing coat on it. Probably one of the best looking foxes I have seen in a long time. Very healthy, bordering on fat!! A lovely big fluffy tail too................ make a great car aerial ornament


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## Ozkar

It has been a bit cold  minus during the last four nights and maximum of 7c during the day. Spent most of today curled up in bed   Meh...not like there is any time pressure   Probably going to do the same thing tomorrow as it's going to e the same again  Oh...and there are strong winds and consistent rain to add a little more wind and water chill to the air  Life is good  

I'm learning along with the dogs every day. We have been getting closer and closer each time, but still not close enough to take an easy shot. Seen lots and lots of stunning looking animals though. From the healthiest Foxes with the fluffiest big tails i've ever seen, to large antlered Sambar Bucks, Does and hinds with the most lush, thick and glossy coats. 

The Deer keep taunting us of a night, with one hanging around the gully near camp and honking at us at all hours. The dogs are starting to get used to it. They will give a few interested barks when the first few honks happen, then they give up and come curl up in bed again.  The possums and especially the Wombats set Astro off. The smell of the Wombats is strong and even I can smell them when they are close to camp. They stink!


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## R E McCraith

Oz - U need to bag a deer - eat the back strap - make some jerky - summer sausage - freeze the rest - you will never go home - here in KY we are lucky to have people that do nothing but process game - a deer that has been eating acorns for a few months is the best meat that you will ever eat - go get them LAD !


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## hobbsy1010

Oz thinking of you and the 'Gang' at your 'New Out Post' and thing's to try.....

Have a look at this blog and they have idea's of things YOU can't eat but your four legged companions might!!!!  



http://www.tuffies.co.uk/blog/

Hobbsy


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## Ozkar

Yeah, whenever I have let them keep a rabbit they eat the whole thing including the fur....roughage!!!  I'll post a pic of how those Antlers now look. Needless to say the tips are all gone


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## Ozkar

Hi all..... sorry I haven't been around of late. I am back up in the mountains for a few months training and hunting. I will post some pics once I get a decent speed internet connection. Pups are well. Zsa Zsa is still hard to control and Astro is a hunting champion in the making. However, around camp, Zsa Zsa is really good and Astro is a typically highly strung V barking at anything and everything once it gets dark. We are in a different area to last time and are chasing Fallow (Rudolph, donner, blitzen, prancer etc) instead of the illusive Sambar. 

We have found where they are and are working out where they come from and go to each day and then will be having a red hot crack at getting one then. 

cheers all.


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## redbirddog

Ozkar,
Glad you and the dogs are well and happy in the wild.
Now how exactly are you going to dress out that deer you and the dogs will eventually get?

My friend and fellow Forum adventurer Ken is doing well with the eight dogs he is training in the little town of Firesteel, South Dakota.

Here are a couple posts from a couple years ago:

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/10/final-post-about-sd-written-on-way-back.html

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/10/vizslas-on-plains-of-south-dakota.html

I can promise you one thing. If we were not so busy building roads and highways right now I would be working Bailey and Chloe along with Ken and the dogs in South Dakota.

You have to live your dreams. That is what life is really about.

"Life isn't measured by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breaths away.

Good luck Marty out in the wild, Wife is talking about an Oz vacation next year. I'm game.

RBD


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