# Short haired pups in a wire haired litter ?



## Mary7 (Dec 11, 2019)

Hello everyone,

I am looking for a bit of advice ! We were originally looking for a short haired female vizsla puppy and we are in contact with a breeder who produces both short and wire haired. 

They happen to have a wire haired litter (both parents wire haired) but the breeder says she believes a male and female of the litter will actually 'stay short haired' she also says that because of this reason they can't be registered wired haired (but we don't care about that :wink). I have actually taken a look into their previous litter from 2018 and there funnily enough in the middle of a clearly wire haired litter of 7 puppies, is a very smooth little girl !

Can anyone shed any light on this ? If she is looking smooth at 8 weeks old, will she indeed stay that way ? I am guessing it's along the lines of a hidden gene or something like that ?

Thank you in advance !

Fi


----------



## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

@Mary7
Once in awhile our spamware keeps a post from being seen. I just realized this happened to your post, and approved it. I'm sorry for it not being posted yesterday.

Maybe one of our members with WHV can answer your question.


----------



## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

Yeah, it's possible for some Wirehairs to never develop a wire coat. Here's an article that explains the genetics: https://sites.google.com/site/austr...home/short-wirehaired-and-long-of-vizsla-coat
And the appearance of two dogs with the same genes expressed will still vary. 



I've heard of dogs that didn't develop a wire coat until they were 1 year or older. Without a DNA test, even an experienced breeder would be hard pressed to tell the difference between a puppy that will develop a coat late and one that will stay short. For that reason, I'm skeptical of the breeder's statement about non-wire Wirehaired Vizslas being disqualified for registration. You would register the dog long before you knew for certain the dog's final coat. What country are you in? I'm curious to verify that for myself. 



If you definitely don't want a dog with a wirehaired coat, then the simplest solution would be to wait for a shorthaired litter. A puppy that looks smooth at 8 weeks isn't going to turn into a shaggy-coated dog though, if that's a concern you have.


----------



## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

I'll see if I can dig out some pics of my two whv's as pups..


----------



## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

Ruby as a pup


----------



## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

elvis as a pup


----------



## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

how their coats developed


----------



## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

as a relatively "new breed" (1930's) wairehaired's haven't really got any uniformity on their coats and it is possible to throw up a very smooth looking pup in a litter, sometimes the wirehair will break through after a few months and sometimes not. I can't see why the breeder can't register the 2 pups as wirehaired vizslas though assuming that both parents are registered wirehaired vizslas..


----------



## Mary7 (Dec 11, 2019)

einspänner said:


> Yeah, it's possible for some Wirehairs to never develop a wire coat. Here's an article that explains the genetics: https://sites.google.com/site/austr...home/short-wirehaired-and-long-of-vizsla-coat
> And the appearance of two dogs with the same genes expressed will still vary.
> 
> 
> ...


Hi, thank you for your comment ! We live in France  They tend to register them very early here (easily a few weeks before you take them home) so I don't know if it's to do with that ? The fact that they aren't clearly wire haired ?

I also read that sometimes the wired coat comes later on so I thought it might be that. But when you see them at 8 weeks old and all clearly growing their coats and one isn't, it's quite noticeable and I wondered if that was a tell tale sign. The father is more hairy and than the mother, although neither are the most hairy that I have seen !

We are going to see the litter tomorrow !


----------



## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

Oh, I suppose that could be the case. It just set off alarm bells in my head and I wanted to make sure you weren't being sold a lie. The only thing I could find in the breed standard on the Société Centrale Canine site is that an improper coat would disqualify them in the show ring, which is what I would expect. Maybe there was a misunderstanding or maybe France does things differently than other kennel clubs. 

Anyway, I'm only familiar with one of the breeders (Domaine St. Hubert) that currently has a litter, but they all look excellent, so my concerns were unfounded. Enjoy your visit!


----------



## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

And since pictures speak louder than words, here is my dog's litter at 6 weeks. 






Aside from the blonde one up front–she's mine–the rest, to my eye, have the same coat.


However one of them turned out like this:



And another like this:




So I'll repeat, if you don't want a wirehair don't get a wirehair, haha. If it doesn't matter that much to you, you'll fall in love and she'll be the most beautiful dog however she turns out.


----------



## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

strange how the one that looks like a smooth has no furnishings, the ones that I've seen (whv's) with "smooth" coats have usually had some facial furnishings.


----------



## Mary7 (Dec 11, 2019)

einspänner said:


> And since pictures speak louder than words, here is my dog's litter at 6 weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hello everyone ! Thank you for all your help 🙂 we just went to see her and she is lovely. She is 7 weeks old and I took some photos just to give you a better idea. We have to make a decision quickly but she is a real love. Her brothers are all bundles of wire hair already ! Haha we looked at her ears and toes and no wire hairs really, she just has a tiny bit of thicker type hair on her elbows. Of course we can’t predict in a year’s time, but I can’t imagine she will be very hairy. Love to know your thoughts anyway 😉


----------



## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

Mods, looks like another reply from Mary7 got caught by the software.


Harrigab, I know the type–sort of a teenage boy growing his first mustache look–but in person I've seen 4 of these dogs and there'd be no way to tell the difference between them and an actual shorthair vizsla. I wonder if the availability of a fairly cheap test for the wire gene will change how breeders operate. I've seen it run about $50 here in the States. I've always been told and repeated that the wirehair coat is this mysterious and fickle thing, but it seems like we should be able to eliminate the shorthair gene within a few generations by testing breeding pairs beforehand. There will always be a market for well-bred, non-show dogs so maybe the financial incentive isn't there.


----------



## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

I dunno, I quite lean towards Mother Nature throwing us a curved ball every now and then, what would a test predict if both sire and dam were same breed?, possibly more "tailor made" breeding? is that a good thing?..could that open the door for puppy farmers to churn out what the market will pay top dollar for?. I think the wirehair gene is a strange one too, my friends whv's although siblings,couldn't be further from breed standard,,one looks like a smooth, the other looks like a teddy bear, yet both work great with great temperaments (typical whv then )


----------



## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

einspänner;163160[B said:


> _*]Mods, looks like another reply from Mary7 got caught by the software.
> *_[/B]
> 
> Harrigab, I know the type–sort of a teenage boy growing his first mustache look–but in person I've seen 4 of these dogs and there'd be no way to tell the difference between them and an actual shorthair vizsla. I wonder if the availability of a fairly cheap test for the wire gene will change how breeders operate. I've seen it run about $50 here in the States. I've always been told and repeated that the wirehair coat is this mysterious and fickle thing, but it seems like we should be able to eliminate the shorthair gene within a few generations by testing breeding pairs beforehand. There will always be a market for well-bred, non-show dogs so maybe the financial incentive isn't there.


we've always said that the door is still open for you Courtney if you ever want to resume your role...


----------



## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Not sure why I have to keep approving Mary's posts. 🙄


----------



## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

texasred said:


> Not sure why I have to keep approving Mary's posts. &#55357;&#56900;


because the "new" forum owners don't trust us to keep "OUR forum" running as it should be...makes my blood boil tbh Debs,,but that's a subject that we need to address in Staff forum....although I'm happy to keep it public @viszlaAdmin ..


----------



## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

@Mary7, I think she's beautiful! Please send her to me right away. 


@harrigab, nah, I'm good.


----------

