# Neutering



## Maxx

Hello, I know this topic has been discussed on here over and over. I have been reading the discussions morning. Everyone has been very helpful with the education as to pros and cons, don't do it too early and so on. 
My fear, other than the obvious possible health risks, is a change in our boys behavior and personality. He is such a happy and vibrant dog, brings so much joy to our lives and we love him just as he is. Which I suppose answers my own question, but what I would like to know is if any of you noticed significant attitude, behavioral and over all personality changes in your boys after getting them neutered. Maxx is 2 1/2 years old. 
Thank you everyone


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## MilesMom

I think recent research is saying that it is actually better for their health if you don't neuter them. 

If we lived in a different environment, we wouldn't do it. Both our dogs have good temperaments, Chase is 11 months soon and no issues with him being intact. Unfortunately where we live, they are restricted from many dog walkers, day cares, and parks if they are not fixed. We will be waiting longer prior to fixing him, but it was challenging to find someone to watch him while we wait. 

In regards to Miles, we didn't really notice much of a change after neutering. He stopped marking as much, but once we got Chase he has gone right back to marking after the puppy. He never mounted much, I would say he does it now the same amount as he did before surgery. The only thing that really has changed since getting him neutered is we get lectures less in public now, and if a dog picks on him he no longer gets solely blamed for him being intact.


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## Hunter.IT

Hi there, 
Hunter is just 9 month, and he has no aggression issues, we are now in italy, and i asked our vet about neutering today, he actually is against it! he said as long as is a happy dog with no behavioral issue, do not consider to nutter him. 
He also raised a good point, many female dogs are spayed, and the rest go on heat just twice a year, so it is a low chance of reproduction. 
I know in States is very rare not to Neuter, but if you wanna be a responsible dog owner, you could watch your dog when he is around females. 

Anyways, neutering is not very common here as i see many males aren't.


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## Maxx

Thank you. We keep an eye on Maxx when we go into someone's home who has male dogs because we have caught him marking. He will mount anything he can these days, which makes us uncomfortable, we are working on that. Not really sure how to keep him from doing that. Those really are our main concerns. Sounds as if those behaviors can continue even after neutering, so I don't see the point of it right now. 

And, after searching "mounting" on the forum I see it is very normal. So I will be sure to share this information with my husband and we will let Maxx be just the way he is. 

Again, thank you


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## texasred

Its something I would put a whole lot of thought into before having it done, and it sounds like you have. Once they are neutered, there is no going back.
My male is neutered but it is because of his temperament. Not a temperament I would want to take a chance on passing on to offspring. I waited until he was 3 years old, and have two intact females in the house also. I just got tired of him whining, for something he was never going to get when the females were in heat.
Neutered males still like females in heat, but the call of nature is not as strong. So I would never leave him alone with a female that would stand for him, but its not on his mind 24/7 like before.


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## Maxx

Thank you TexasRed, the females that he plays with have no problem putting him in check if he even attempts to mount them but they are also spayed. Its really more of an issue to my husband and daughter, it embarrasses them. Thankfully it is usually only dogs we know that Maxx attempts this with. When we are on hikes and he is approached by a strange dog he tends to keep his cool. When we are all together this weekend I am going to pull up all the threads I have been reading on the issue and share it with them.


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## tknafox2

I found this article on one of our breeders facebook... 
it is interesting, but I have not researched it, and would be very curious how it ultimately affects all of the neutering issuse.

Has anyone else had any experience with this... all natural process???

http://www.schoolforthedogs.com/201...er-your-dog-without-removing-his-balls-30880/


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## hotmischief

I know a little about this. The adoption society that I work with are anti neutering for health reasons. If they get a dog in that has behavioural problems that might be resolved by castration, they chemically castrate the dog for 6 months to see what the effects are likely to be. As far as I am aware it has little effect on bad/aggressive behaviour.

I know of one friend who had a year old Vizsla who was constantly annoying other dogs and they tried the chemical castration and it calmed him down a lot and the other dogs ignore him now. He was only 1 year old at the time, so I do wonder how much age had to do with. They had him castrated following the chemical test and are very pleased with the results.

Two things occur to me on this subject - one is I personally would not consider it as a long term solution to castration due to the fact I disagree with injecting chemical into the dog. If you are thinking of long term have the surgery.

Secondly, what are the medium to long term effects of chemical castration when used long term? I don't think they have any data on that. :-X


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## mlwindc

Fascinating topic for me - Wilson is 18 months and intact. we have no plans to neuter him. We are limited in terms of daycare and boarding options, but we have found ways to get around that. I do get comments in public, to which I say - BUGGER OFF. It has taken some work to build up a think skin, but I've done it.

Wilson marks, but doesn't hump. He tried to hump ME once when he was about 5 months and my husband put a stop to that. I haven't seen him hump anything since.


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## Maxx

There are restrictions here also, as far as boarding and day care. We made the decision when we got Maxx to take him with us whenever possible. So far that has worked out in our favor and we have not had to board him, plus its just no fun without him.


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## tknafox2

I really want to delve into this ARK Science procedure for more info, if you watch the video... it is not chemicals, it is 
a small dose of a combined solution, Zinc gluconate ( like you would take for a cold), L Arginine ( a non essential amino acid, and water.
it takes just minutes, is non invasive and lasts for life. The dog is then given a taboo as his certification of sterility. 

http://www.arksciences.com/


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## redbirddog

thnafox2,
I find this stuff extremely interesting how this solution would kill forever the mechanism that produces sperm.

I remember bits and pieces of college biology and chemistry but not enough to really understand the mechanisms and reactions that would make this a forever sterilization.

If someone is going to alter a dog, then the less intrusive the procedure, it SHOULD be better.


RBD


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## tknafox2

The info says for "Male dogs 3-10 mo." This brings up so many more question... Why not after 10 mo. ??
And what is the long term effect, does it work the same as testicle removal in regards to Behavior, marking, health, sex drive ???

I Just could not at this point, choose this method for Fergy who will be 10 mo. in 2 weeks... Too little data, to soon. However, if we were not training him to hunt, and he was just meant to be our family household pet, I would definitely have a different thought process going on right now, and would most likely be looking for a VET which practices this method.


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## redbirddog

> The info says for "Male dogs 3-10 mo." This brings up so many more question... Why not after 10 mo. ??


I wondered the same thing. What changes chemically after 10 months that would cause this solution to react differently?

I enjoy figuring out puzzles. This is an interesting one. But someone more educated in the chemical-biological make up of the animal kingdom might be able to shed more light.

RBD


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## emilycn

It did seem like an interesting solution, butI never really though about the consequences of the chemicals, probably because chemical sterilization is what women are basically doing (at least temporarily) when we take birth control pills. 

Why can't they just tie tubes or do vasectomies on dogs?


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## tknafox2

I made contact with ARK Science, and asked a couple of questions... about the age limitation, and how it works...
Here is the e-mail I received back:

Mike Herron
To Me
Today at 10:44 AM
Tamara,

Thank you for contacting us and for your interest in Zeuterin. The FDA based the original approval of Zeuterin on the information available to them at the time. The scientific studies enrolled dogs in the 3 to 10 months of age range to demonstrate that Zeuterin is safe and effective. Thus, the product label specifies this range of ages. 

Veterinarians can legally choose to use Zeuterin in dogs outside this age range if they think such use is appropriate. We have reviewed reports of adverse reactions since the time of original approval. We have not identified any additional risk associated with use in older dogs. However, we cannot endorse use beyond what is described in the FDA approved label.

Zeuterin is a solution of zinc-gluconate and L-arginine, both natural compounds that are found in many supplements. You can learn more about Zeuterin and how it works on our FAQ page. 

Best Regards,


-- 
Mike Herron
Ark Sciences, Inc.
503.480.9769
www.arksciences.com 

Now I need to read the FAQ Sheet!!


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## redbirddog

Thanks for doing the research and if you can read through the FAQ and translate into layman's terms that would be splendid.



> Zeuterin is a solution of zinc-gluconate and L-arginine, both natural compounds that are found in many supplements


If the items are natural supplements, it makes me wonder what human male should take a supplement that would cause a mammal to lose the ability to produce sperm?

Interesting biology for those more versed in these fields then me.

Side note: I was planting birds for Vizsla pups at our fun field day Saturday. The vast majority of the males pups had been neutered by one year old. They were tall and thin with feminine features. 

It does make a difference. You can see it. I don't personally like to see it. I know what a male "should" look like if left whole. Field trialing, I have seen hundreds. Leave them whole until at least 18 months.

My two cents
RBD


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## tknafox2

I totally Agree!!! Our trainer says... not until 2 at least, and then you can expect a lazy... fat...dog! OH NO!!!
I can't even imagine a fat Vizsla... How in the world could an energetic dog like a Vizsla get fat?????????????????????????????????????????????

Well anyways.. I was just passing on what I learned... Maybe when Mr. F is 2, or 3 we will fix him. ( maybe sooner if he doesn't stop humping his bed!) 
RBD... I was thinking about what you said, about humans taking supplements... I wonder how that is affecting the infertility problem in our country, All the health nuts, who can't father a child, I wonder what it does to the female???


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## marathonman

redbirddog said:


> Side note: I was planting birds for Vizsla pups at our fun field day Saturday. The vast majority of the males pups had been neutered by one year old. They were tall and thin with feminine features.
> 
> It does make a difference. You can see it. I don't personally like to see it. I know what a male "should" look like if left whole. Field trialing, I have seen hundreds. Leave them whole until at least 18 months.
> 
> My two cents
> RBD


The muscle, definition, and size differences were pretty obvious this weekend between our intact boy and the multiple neutered males we saw. 
I would think using this Zeuterin would lead to similar effects, but somehow I doubt they seriously evaluated developmental differences. (or long term effect on health i.e. hip dysplasia)


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