# Clomicalm- anyone?



## Moose (Oct 2, 2010)

Anyone have their V on Clomicalm ? Wondering what you're experiences are with it, Moose has been on it for almost a month now, but we're about to go to human anti-depressants as this doesn't seem to be working.

{He has high anxiety, afraid of change, doesn't like hardwood flooring, certain tiles, can't walk [in a house] in open spaces, likes his body to be touching something at all times, afraid of certain sounds ,etc. }


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

I would also be interested in knowing the answer above. 

Our behaviorist recommended Xanex for our Vizsla, for certain "scary" events that we just won't be able to keep him calm for (i.e, vet appointments). We are thinking of getting some, but would also be interested in knowing if anyone else has had success with anti-anxiety medication for their V's.


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## Moose (Oct 2, 2010)

we tried rescue remedy before Clomicalm, I try opting for the natural remedy before the chemical medication- but no luck for our V. 

have you tried it for yours ? some people swear by it, I believe you can also buy a room spray?


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

I just want to ask again: does anybody else have expereience with anti-anxiety medication for their dogs?

We are going to get some from our vet to help with our training. Right now our Gus is so incredibly terrified of children (ALL children, even as old as 13 or 14), he can't even hear them without freaking out, and won't accept treats or anything. Xanax was recommended to us. I just worry about possible health side effects, although minor side effects are probably worth it if a combo of medication and training can decrease the risk of him biting a kid.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

jjohnson said:


> I just want to ask again: does anybody else have expereience with anti-anxiety medication for their dogs?
> 
> We are going to get some from our vet to help with our training. Right now our Gus is so incredibly terrified of children (ALL children, even as old as 13 or 14), he can't even hear them without freaking out, and won't accept treats or anything. Xanax was recommended to us. I just worry about possible health side effects, although minor side effects are probably worth it if a combo of medication and training can decrease the risk of him biting a kid.



My understanding is that if the dog doesn't have any health issues, we should not medicate them for "behavior".

A dose of Caesar Millan is sufficient in most cases http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztA60S5oyVk 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBFgnD1CTbI&feature=relmfu and related episodes

Sorry if I bum your post. I believe in medications only if the the dog is sick.


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

Well medication was suggested by both an experienced behaviorist and two vets. The behaviorist suggested Xanax as an occasional thing, which is better than some other tranquilizers typically given to dogs because the dog is still lucid and able to learn things while on it. We all agreed that the medication will be used as a last resort. 

I am going to go with the PhD-educated animal behaviorist and two vets who have met my dog on this one instead of a guy on TV who trains celebrity dogs. 

I think you under-estimate the seriousness of certain behaviors, and the seriousness of the issues with our dog. I obviously would rather not medicate my dog, but behavior modification training can only get you so far. At this point, he has the potential to become dangerous, has snapped a few times and lunged at strangers, and I would rather medicate once in a while in certain situations than have him bite a child and have to be given away or put down. This is a health issue - this level of anxiety make certain everyday situations really traumatic for my dog. Just hearing a little kid screaming causes him to salivate, whine, and try to run away. 

I am just curious if anybody else with dogs with sever anxiety issues have tried this. I've heard it doesn't do any good with some dogs? Doesn't sound like anybody else on this forum has tried it.


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

This is from the ASPCA's website:

"Is Medication Necessary?

Some pet parents don’t want to give their dog behavioral medication. They’re not comfortable treating behavior issues with drugs and would rather resolve the problem through training and behavior modification. This reaction is understandable. However, some problems can be resolved more quickly and with less distress (for the dog and the pet parent) if behavior medication is added to the treatment plan. 

In an ideal world, the most effective approach to treating a behavior problem is behavior change training. Behavior modification treatments designed by knowledgeable, qualified professionals treat the problem behavior by either changing the dog’s perception of a situation or a thing, by changing the consequence of the dog’s behavior, by giving the dog an acceptable behavior to do in place of the problem behavior, or by a combination of these things. (Please see our article, Finding Professional Help, for help choosing and locating a qualified expert in your area.) 

However, with many problem behaviors related to fear, medication is necessary to reduce the dog’s fear to a level that allows treatment to begin. Please see our article, Desensitization and Counterconditioning for information about these effective treatments that are commonly used for fears, phobias, anxiety and aggression."


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## BlueandMac (Apr 21, 2011)

I don't have any experiences to share with you regarding the use of anti-anxietys in V's (but I've seen the difference they can make in humans as I have a family member who went through a very traumatic experience and they make the difference that allow her leave her house and function). But as Gus's parents only you know if meds are the right avenue to try. I think some people to turn to meds too fast without putting in effort, but based on what you have been through and tried with Gus, I certainly wouldn't put you in that category at all. Sometimes it is just necessary to give it a go. It may be a long term thing, a short term thing or not work at all, but you won't know if you don't try...it may turn out to be the tipping point to help your boy. I look at it this way...if I had high blood pressure and exercise/diet couldn't fix it, I wouldn't say no to meds...it may be the only way to regulate it. Good luck with whatever you decide and please keep us posted. I feel for you and Gus - it is so tough to see these guys in any type of pain - be it physical or emotional. :'(


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

jjohnson said:


> I am going to go with the PhD-educated animal behaviorist and two vets who have met my dog on this one instead of a guy on TV who trains celebrity dogs.


 :'( :'( :'(


http://www.vetinfo.com/side-effects-of-xanax-for-dogs.html

"Precautions to be Taken

It is advised not to give human Xanax to dogs. [/color]It is a known fact that the consumption of human Xanax will make the dogs seriously ill or even result in death.[/color] Xanax for human beings are manufactured for bodies having mass between 150 and 200 lbs and more. Dogs have low body mass when compared to the human beings. This is the reason why dogs require only a fraction of the dosage required by the humans. The normal Xanax dosage for a dog is 0.01 milligrams per lb of the mass of the dog.
[/color]
Misconceptions

Most of the people are unaware of the fact that the anti-anxiety medications including Xanax cannot be used as a substitute for the training of dogs.[/color] These drugs are often utilized as the last option for putting a dog with dangerous nature to sleep. However, this drug is used for calming down a dog for making it pay attention during training sessions.[/color] Xanax is mostly used by the vets to keep dogs from showing excessive signs of agitation."

=================

Not sure if Xanan for human use side effects are of any interest since we are talking about dogs...
http://www.drugs.com/sfx/xanax-side-effects.html


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## Moose (Oct 2, 2010)

anti-anxiety meds and dogs seems to be a touchy subject. I too would rather not medicate, but our poor dog is so anxious it's not fair to him to be feeling that way 24-7. Although we don't have a dangerous V, or an unpredictable V... he acts in neurotic ways, is very skiddish and just not comfortable in his own skin a lot of the time. I'm finding getting him outside in the sunshine is helping, I definitely think he suffers from a bit of winter depression.

We are looking at getting the thunder coat , or thunder shirt - so far I've heard good things, but it's less than $50 so my husband and I are skeptical. We know that cost doesn't always indicate success....and at $45 or so , we're willing to grab one to try !! 

I hope you find some success with your pup as well, I have heard though that xanax can actually alter mood and make your dog a bit dull. We were given that option also- but the doc told us that it could be mood-altering, and I dont want to change who Moose is, I just want to change how he behaves in certain situations.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I could be way off base but have you had Moose's eyes checked.
There was a rescue dog that had the same symptoms that you describe.
It turned out that she had poor vision in one eye and none in the other.


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## OttoLOVE (Apr 26, 2012)

Hi everyone!
I'm new to this forum and a (relatively) new Vizsla owner. My baby, Otto, will be one this Friday! He has changed our lives forever and I'm so happy to have him!
We have gone through very similar situations as you described Moose. Otto as a young puppy wasn't really phased by a lot, he was very laid back. There have been a few, seemingly uneventful, incidents that scared him and he's had increased anxiety. The first I can remember was when he slipped and took a fall on our hardwood floors in our house. Other incidents were ground related as well- tile, wet floors, etc. From that point on we had to coax him to cross the floors. Our entire house is hardwood but we have large area rugs throughout. We found that spending more time on the ground helped but didn't solve his anxiety. 
I haven't personally tried any of these medications but my Aunt had good luck with a drug for her bearded collee called Composure. It was something they gave her only when she needed it- like thunderstorms or other triggers.
I think it's great you're opening yourself up to these forums and reading all of our opinions. I agree with BlueandMac and think that Gus will be best treated by the professionals you have talked to and by your firsthand experience. You are already doing the best thing possible- which is getting all the information you can before jumping in. Good luck!


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

10 minutes with my brother on shiny wood floor and Sam was hugging the walls. Now, my brother is banned from visiting uninvited again. I also placed non slip running carpet until Sam regained his confidence.

In my wife's house, we have a hallway and the light shines across from the master bedroom. If Sam wonders in the room across the master, he will never come out as long as sunshine floods the hallway. It is freaky. 
The solution is to block the light or close the bedroom door. 

Perhaps, we are lucky, we have time to spend with Sam and bothersome things are caught pretty quickly.



My absolute nightmare would be to deal with another dog seriously biting Sam... I think that would mean months of therapy and who knows maybe meds as well :'( 
So far we are good, partly because we don't frequent dog parks.


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

We were prescribed Lorazapam(sp?) by our vet and tried it this weekend during a long boat trip with lots of extended family members (aka stangers). The medication had absolutely no noticable effect on Gus - if anything, it made him more excitable. Also, we've tried the thundershirt and didn't notice much difference, although I do think he likes wearing it...

The trip was miserable for Gus- once my grandma approached our boat and reach out to pet him, and he was so terrified he sprayed his anal glands all over. The rest of the time he barked at growled aggressively at EVERYBODY. Treats, punushments, whatever, seemed to have no effcect. It's so sad because he is part of our little family and we love him but everyone else is terrified of him because he is becoming so aggressive with his fear. 

Right now the ONLY people he feels comfortable around are me, my husband, and my parents. We have several friends and family members that he has met upwards of 10 or 20 times, but he still will not get near them or let them touch him. He will take some treats, then back away and bark. So frustrating. His overall behaviors also seem to becoming more neurotic as he is getting older- he'll suddenly become terrified of a pair of shoes or a random plant. The vet called to ask how it went and is going to try another medication to use in situations that are really hard for him. We are also going to try more meetings with the behaviorists and trainers before the baby we are expecting is born in October, but it is getting so hard to stay positive! Say what you wnat about medicating a dog, but I am hoping we will find something that helps him calm down so we can even just work on socializing and training without him being dangerous.


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## Oquirrh the V (Jun 24, 2011)

Some-what off topic, but Oquirrh (14 months) will occassionally get afraid of new things that are placed in the house or backyard. For example, I got a new purse and had set it on a table in my room. He walked into the room with the lights off, saw the outline of the purse, realized it was something new and he tucked his tail and growled. I didn't want to make a huge deal about it. I turned on the lights, put the purse on the floor and then ignored Oq. He growled, backed away, and scooted around the purse for about an hour. He eventually figured out that it wasn't scary and hasn't had a problem with it since. Again, he did this with a hammock that was put up in the backyard. It was such a dilemma (to him) because he was too scared to chase the birds in the yard because this new hammock was hanging. I left him to do whatever he wanted in the yard, he sat in a sit position (very unsual) for a while, watching the birds then looking at the hammock. He eventually decided he would rather chase the birds then worry about the hammock. I guess my point is, just be aware of how you react to certain situations or how you may be hindering your dogs coping skills. Best of luck with the anxiety issues.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

I am really sorry JJ. 
I sincerely hope it will get better for you guys. 
Takes courage and inner strength to open up on subjects like this.

All the best to Gus and you guys, 
Julius


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

I just wanted to share something real quick with anyone else who struggles with fearful or nervous V's:

One thing our vet reccommended we might try is "Dap", which stands for "Dog Appeasing Pheremone". Supposedly, this manufactured pheremone mimicks the pheremone that mothers produce to calm puppies when they are little. The theory is that it can help soothe older dogs that have anxiety issues. It can be found online or in some pet stores, and is offered in air-freshener-type plug-ins, sprays, or collars.

We are willing to try anything for our Gus, so we bought one of the collars ($20 online) and he has worn it continuously for the past couple of weeks. I can't 100% say that it has helped, but Gus has been a little better over the past month, not freaking out quite so much. Not sure if it is attributed entirely to the DAP collar, or just progress we are making in general, but I would suggest anybody who is having issues give it a try!


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

datacan said:


> 10 minutes with my brother on shiny wood floor and Sam was hugging the walls. Now, my brother is banned from visiting uninvited again. I also placed non slip running carpet until Sam regained his confidence.
> 
> In my wife's house, we have a hallway and the light shines across from the master bedroom. If Sam wonders in the room across the master, he will never come out as long as sunshine floods the hallway. It is freaky.
> The solution is to block the light or close the bedroom door.
> ...


Copper runs around on our wood floors like a pro sliding into second base. : I have never seen a dog so willing to run and slide.


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

Copper has shown fearfull signs from time to time. We have mostly ignored them, and continue to work on confidence building. I say give them love, attention and build confidence daily and it will go a long way to make these issues disappear.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

How do you build confidence?

I have no obedience problems, fireworks, thunderstorms are also OK. 

But, slippery, shiny floors puzzle me.


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

Confidence starts with friendship and praise. I'm sure you got that part down. With the floors specifically; I would hangout with the dog on the floor feeding treats and playing games. We have a tile floor in our kitchen and he is fed on it, chases bugs on it, food is slid across it, and toys are bounced and slid to him and away from him on it. Hangout on the floor with him and play. It may take time depending on how far it has gotten but, let's remember...if you fall off the horse, you need to get RIGHT back on.  It's our job to show them there is nothing to be afraid of. Reminds me of the young boys playing baseball. If they got hit with the pitch, they never wanted to get back up to bat. What's the difference? Nothing. Tell the boy and show the boy that it's a game, getting hit with the ball will not kill them and it can be avoided most of the time. However, it's a part of the game which is fun and it's an inevitable and an unpleasant experience we all have but, it doesn't stop our love of the game or our fun.


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

It's funny, as terrified as Gus is of strangers and kids, he has absolutely no fear of load noises, weird floors, or anything like that. But what I've noticed in the past few months is that I think he feels more confident around strangers if he is playing- chasing a ball, holding a stuffed toy, etc. We were walking around a busy town this weekend and he was starting to get nervous and his tail was down, starting to go between his legs. So, we went and grabbed a stuffed animal and gave it to him, and he started proudly prancing around with it in his mouth, tail up, wagging. I'm wondering if turning "scary" things into a fun game with cool toys would help build confidence? Maybe it also has something to do with their hunting instincts and feeling more confident if they feel like they are doing a job?


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

jjohnson said:


> But what I've noticed in the past few months is that I think he feels more confident around strangers if he is playing- chasing a ball, holding a stuffed toy, etc. We were walking around a busy town this weekend and he was starting to get nervous and his tail was down, starting to go between his legs. So, we went and grabbed a stuffed animal and gave it to him, and he started proudly prancing around with it in his mouth, tail up, wagging. I'm wondering if turning "scary" things into a fun game with cool toys would help build confidence? Maybe it also has something to do with their hunting instincts and feeling more confident if they feel like they are doing a job?


Riley isn't ever nervous, but she is much better behaved when she has a toy or bully stick in her mouth! She's super mouthy and jumpy when greeting people, but if you shove something in her mouth she immediately calms down and does that little prancing thing. I think it definitely gives them a sense of purpose and that makes them feel more confident.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Linescreamer said:


> Reminds me of the young boys playing baseball. If they got hit with the pitch, they never wanted to get back up to bat.


How did you know? That's exactly what happened to me - ended with a quick trip to the hospital . I left baseball and joined basketball. I guess if the basketball hurt me I would have joined synchronized swimming :-[

Thanks.


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