# Consensus on you experts on neutering at 9 months. Rescue says no. HELP!



## hipEchik (Apr 13, 2012)

Scout is 9 months and I'm having a lot of problems. I've had him a month. One of the conditions of adoption was that I wait til he is one yr old to neuter him. Not sure I can keep him. Besides the regular training issues I am working on, he's begun aggressive behavior. He's begun to pee on people and dogs at the dog park, started to hump other dogs and now me. Some training we are making progress with but these aggression issues by all accts are due to the fact he's not neutered. I have two vets and a trainer telling me he needs to be neutered but, my hands are rather tied. I just emailed the rescue and asked them if they have any suggestions so, will see what comes of that. Every time I write them, the implication is they will take him back (though this has not been said). ARE there serious health issues, dysplasia, growing too large etc from neutering at 9 months. If I could find a vet that would forget to date the record I'd do it now but I doubt that will happen. At my wits end in San Diego. Thanks! Terri and Scout


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

As has been said many times in here, it is what's in between their ears not their legs which is important. I truly think your vet and trainer are misguided. Having him fixed may or may not change things. Sometimes, it can make them worse.


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## hipEchik (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks. How might it make it worse? I HAVE to neuter him at one year per my contract so not neutering is not an option.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I'm not sure what methods your using to train him or just how aggressive he has been. It sounds like he may be a dog that has to have lots of rules to be happy ( sounds funny but dogs are happier once they give up on trying to be the boss) and an experienced person to handle him.
I would suggest you look at Leerburg's website, along with Cesar Millans.
Then read NILIF training. All three have good information. Then from there build a plan that will fit him. 
Just keep in mind when reading Leerburg that vizslas are softer on training than the dogs he trains.


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## redrover (Mar 17, 2011)

In my experience, behavioral problems don't disappear with the offending genitals. The problem is present, and it will likely stay present without behavioral modification. 

There is a lot of conflicting evidence on what is or is not the appropriate age to spay/neuter, and what long-term effects it may or may not have. One person will tell you one thing, and another something completely different (as far as health effects go). I do think it's fairly accepted that spay/neuter at young ages can affect bone growth, since hormone crosstalk is important for bone development. I wouldn't really get this kind of advice from a vet, as a lot of them frequently push neuter/spay, even if it won't have an impact on the animal's health or behavior. There is some evidence of a correlation between neutering dogs and seeing increases in fear, aggression, anxiety, or excitability.

Neutering will hardly ruin your dog, but neither will not neutering. If you can wait until 1 year in order to not void your contract, I would do so.

Who are your trainers? Are they humane society or pet store trainers? A trainer with an intact dog will probably have better advice for you than one without. Can your rescue group refer you to a trainer with experience in behavior problems?

Can you further explain your behavioral issues? What is triggering his "aggression" or peeing? Some dogs react aggressively because they are actually very anxious or frightened--not uncommon in dog parks, particularly with young dogs. Is he actually fighting with another dog (tooth on flesh), or is he correcting an unacceptable behavior (lots of noise and showing of his teeth, but no intent to harm). Peeing on people and dogs might be a phase that he grows out of--or it could also be brought on by feelings of fear or social anxiety. 

For the behavior of him humping you, I suggest getting up, walking away, and even putting a door between you. I used that technique when Jasper tried humping me once, and he never did it again. I used the same technique for nipping--basically, Behavior X results in social isolation. For such human-oriented dogs, it works quickly.

If all of these issues are occurring only in the dog park, I would start avoiding the dog park, or going at off-peak hours. Dog parks can be a good resource, but they can also be a source of stress for both you and your dog. Do you have other dog-owner friends? Or is there a Vizsla group in your area? Try getting together with them, in smaller groups and in more controlled environments. There are an awful lot of negligent, stupid owners at dog parks--you should avoid those folks at all costs.

A little more information on his behavioral problems and potential triggers might help us, help you. Let us know!


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

YES, YES Leerburg for dealing with dominant dogs: http://leerburg.com/dominac2.htm

Full episodes of Caesar Millan right on Youtube:
http://www.vizslaforums.com/index.php/topic,4283.msg30282.html#msg30282

On spaying and neutering - this site has been our dog's saving grace, many thanks to RBD:
http://redbirddog.blogspot.ca/search?q=rethinking


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

hipEchik

You, through the kindness of your heart, are in a very different position than someone that starts with a puppy. You took on an older pup and some of the training methods that are geared toward puppies are unavailable to you.

I took on two older V's also, not rescues, just V's that needed a home due to their owner/breeder passing away. Gunnr was far and away the hardest challenge, and she was only 11 months old. It was three months before she would even acknowledge me, and we could actually begin real training. Three months of ****, with a crazy as a jaybird dog on my hands. She had to be on a check cord for 6 months, even in the backyard. Many times I thought about giving her back, and I've had V's for over 20 years. I literally could not reach this dog for 3 months.

Now on to your new boy;
At this time he needs to accept you as part of his equation, and this will take time. Both he and you are behind in your relationship building with each other. It cannot be forced, you can't beat it into him, it has to be his decision. You though, control the process.
It comes about through continuous repetition and regularity. The more his day is the same, the less he has to react too and the quicker he will develop. You need to do as much of his thinking for him as possible, and not let him think for himself. He does not have the foundation as of yet to think for himself, and will only make bad decisions that will hinder your training. Don't put him in situations that allow/force him to think and react for himself. You should be analyzing the situation, predict his response, and get ahead of him.
I don't know what training course you are following but I would put him back on a leash and start with the basics of heel, and all leash groundwork. I would also severely limit his distractions from external environments, i.e.. dog parks, and get him to focus on you.
Once you have control of him on a short leash, it will be time to go to the check cord and begin the extension of the leash in his mind. Right now though he should not be off leash around other dogs and people. Keep him on a longer leash, 12'-15', or a check cord, but don't let him roam free.
You control his interaction with other dogs and people, and keep him out of pressure situations where there are lots of dogs and people.
If he pulls like a freight train on the leash you will need to correct this through the use of a different collar, or looping a length of his leash under his belly and turning him into a piece of luggage to apply pressure to keep his hindquarters under control.

I cannot emphasize enough that at this point in his life he just needs structure. 
He needs to learn the rules, and find his boundry inside those rules. The rules have to be fair and clear though, or he'll flounder. 
Neutering may moderate his behavior a little bit, but it's not going to resolve the issues you are having in and by itself. Time, patience, control, fair and predictable discipline, and affection are what will turn him around.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2009/06/importance-of-mastering-art-of-walk.html

Gunnr. *Excellent post!*

Even now after almost five years with my two Vizslas, I walk them for miles on-leash every week at least twice. There is a bond created by an on-leash walk that is different than anything else.

The rest I just would mirror the advice from Gunnr. Just too good.

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2009/12/history-and-misconceptions-of-dominance.html

On dominance vs. aggression.

RBD


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## DixiesMom (Feb 5, 2009)

As always, Gunnr, you are spot on. 

The one thing that I was to stress is that what hipEchik described as agressive behavior is not truly agressive, it is dominant behavior, there is a HUGE difference.


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

I'm a big proponent of neutering, and so is my vet, but I have never heard anyone (or my vet) assure me that neutering would solve aggression problems or that it needs to be done. I just don't think that is true. Our vet said it MAY help curb some aggresive behaviors, but that it is never a sure fix, and often does not alter behavior at all. I think you are fine waiting until 1 year.


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## dcjwlee (Jun 22, 2012)

Way back when, I used to sit for these two Vizslas. The little one had been neutered but still would go into random humping fits. Even in the air. 

Just a thought.


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## hipEchik (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks to all that replied. We ended up waiting until he was a yr old. His behavior changed immediately for the better and improved for another month. He's MUCH less anxious and able to have fun with other dogs and people without the raging hormones. He's everyone's favorite dog at the dog park. I just thought I would note this as is has been so dramatic. I understand the outcome could have been different and this is not an endorsement. Just my experience. He's a better dog but still has some issues. Especially seperation anxiety. He goes to doggie day care once a week and it's all dogs all day. He comes home exhausted, turns around in a circle and collapses fast asleep. That's Scout's story to date.


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Thank you for sharing your experience hipEchik. It is good to hear. I'm glad he is doing so much better!


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

Thanks for the update and so pleased that things are improving. Hopefully you boy will continue to improve.


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