# The walk



## texasred

This is a video made by Higgins teaching the walk. What I like about it is there are no verbal comands and there is a vizsla in it. The dog has already had some obedience training.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3FE...xt=C395170fADOEgsToPDskLvY3IS2NiFR5D8tI9r3XRO


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## hobbsy1010

Great Clip  

Very confident trainer, that knows that this style of to 'Heal' or 'Walk' works well.

Hobbsy1010


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## texasred

This is one that I like for younger dogs. Same concept with less pressure.
Its with Bill Gibbons . The stop and release you see in both videos will help you later when training with birds. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VC2Q4fBYDcQ


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## born36

I just started my 10 month on a slip lead this weekend. He is amazing on it. Responded straight away no fight with the lead. He went from persistent puller to all the sudden at heal. It is amazing!!!


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## raps702

Thanks for posting that video clip, this is the first one that I have seen of a Viszla learning to walk correctly. I wish more people on this site would post clips of there Vizsla's walking with a loose leash properly (without pulling) just so I can witness with my own eyes.. (not just explaining how, but actually taking the dog on a actual walk.. (not off leash)

It does seem that you need to know what your doing before applying the kennel lead to your dog, how to correct, etc. as you could possibly hurt your dog if your not careful. Not sure if I would be comfortable with that, with regards to yanking my dogs head to strongly..


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## born36

Agreed. Using the slip lead correctly is important. Otherwise ouch! Those that don't know and instead of using it to correct pull back can do some damage. This video is great. The loop is also great as saves you on time on constantly adjusting the lead.


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## hobbsy1010

We sort of stumbled upon using the slip lead higher around our V's neck really out of desperation. He constantly pulled, we read watched and tried different ideas/solutions to help us with this but to no avail. :-\
We now have the slip lead near enough (not too tightly) right behind his ears/skull with the slidding leather/rubber washer keeping it in position.
Where the slip lead was previously sort of on top of his shoulders it became a 'pull challenge' for him. Where as now he walks to heal a lot more calmly, upright and responsive to us and to be honest we think he's a lot happier with it which is important 
I also have to say that we think that his growing age/maturity and consistency from us is all part of this huge learing curve for us all 

Hobbsy1010


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## finch

raps702 said:


> I wish more people on this site would post clips of there Vizsla's walking with a loose leash properly (without pulling) just so I can witness with my own eyes.. (not just explaining how, but actually taking the dog on a actual walk.. (not off leash)



Here is a little video I took of practicing loose lead/heel with Finch a few days ago (I was holding my cell phone camera pointed down at her): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ymd...xt=C37b55f2UDOEgsToPDskLTpdAuqyOfxmj0JhxLcHI0 She was a little on edge b/c we could hear some coyotes on the island where we were walking... it eventually got so loud that she started trembling and she insisted we go back to the car, so we did! I found her loose lead walking got SO much better once we started learning "heel" a couple weeks ago in training class... I actually wish that we were taught heel and loose lead together in the previous class we took, but now I know! I was using treats in this video b/c I had trouble for a while getting her to stop and sit when I stopped, but I think she's got it now. She is 10 months.


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## hobbsy1010

Looking good Ficnch  

Looks like you've cracked it (fingers crossed).

My wife likes your 'Treat Bag' too 

Hobbsy


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## finch

hobbsy1010 said:


> My wife likes your 'Treat Bag' too



Treat bag by Ollydog: http://www.shopatron.com/products/p...Plus/part_number=150-05/1768.0.1.1.0.0.0.0.0? I love it b/c it is a magnetic closure, so it's super easy to open and close with one hand.


I keep a carabiner attached to the treat bag strap around my waist and attach my 3' lead to that so it is hands-free. My favorite lead ever by Alaska Leash: http://www.etsy.com/transaction/65621471


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## finch

I also should point out that b/c she is in training to become a Therapy Dog, we cannot use anything like a harness, gentle leader, ecollar, prong collar, etc... just the repetition and consistency mantra. Also, nothing exciting in that treat bag, just her every day kibble. She's not perfect, but we work on it every day.


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## hobbsy1010

Finch it's quite clear to see that you've put the 
hard work and mileage in to get to that stage at only 10 mths 
your both doing something right.  

What type's of therapy will she eventually be used for?

Hobbsy


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## Ozkar

Great post Finch. I think sometimes it is us that need these devices not the dogs. Most dogs, with using your approach, will come around. I think once again, it's just a fast paced world and if some people don't see a result in one training session, they then tend to claim it doesn't work. You've nailed the key to training a Vizsla and that is repetition and consistency. Well done!!!


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## texasred

Loved the video Finch.
The videos I posted were not just about the walk, although its very important. They were also about teaching the Stand and Release. Both dogs in the videos were new to those two commands. Having a dog that won't move until released is a good quality when hunting birds.


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## finch

Thanks all - when people are gushing about how beautiful she is and how good she is, I am the first to say how much hard work it has been... don't want anyone getting the wrong idea, running out to get a V of their own b/c they're smitten with my pretty girl  



hobbsy1010 said:


> What type's of therapy will she eventually be used for?



Right now I am talking with a local domestic violence network to start a reading program with the children when their moms come in for group counseling. Also, our local library is starting a READ program, so we might look into that too. She should be able to be certified by this summer. My trainer thought I could skip right to the therapy cert class, but I decided against it b/c I wanted a solid foundation.


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## raps702

Thank you Finch for posting that video, it was much appreciated. That was exactly what I was looking for. Great job, you have obviously put the time in with your puppy to learn a loose leash walk like that. I stopped using the treat bag many months ago (Axel is 16 months now), however after watching your video I think I may bring it out and start really putting the time into properly loose leash walking. I believe it's all about the time and effort you put in to training, and it seems that I have been neglecting on that part, I have been so obsessed with off leash training, and trying to burn off all the energy he has that sometimes I think walking like that can be more beneficial in the long term.


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## finch

raps702 said:


> I have been so obsessed with off leash training, and trying to burn off all the energy he has that sometimes I think walking like that can be more beneficial in the long term.



Finch gets off-leash time every day too, but I use it as a reward for her successful leash walking. She doesn't get released from the leash until we get some good loose lead under our belt. Then when I unhook the leash, I make her heel with me for a while, then I give her a release command to run & have fun! Because of where we walk most days, I also finish up with another short leash session on the way back to the car b/c I don't want her off leash in the parking area. 


As far as the treats go, I always have them on me but don't treat her for everything... if I am working on shaping a specific behavior, then I use them more... When we started heel, she would always turn and sit in front of me, facing me looking up. I treated that in the beginning b/c she was getting that she had to sit, but once she had that down, I stopped treating and only treated when she would sit next to me in position. 


It does take time but I know she is so smart and there was no reason she couldn't learn this... I figured if she failed to get it, it would be my fault b/c I think she can learn anything if I take the time to teach her. Good luck!


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## Ozkar

Hey, everyone gets slack occasionally. I think that is why they misbehave..... just to remind us what we are "supposed" to be doing  

Agree with what Finch says as using the off leash as a reward. I didn't do much on lead walking for a little while. I think I may have posted about it. Pretty soon, the recall and behaviour off lead started to loosen up and then on-lead walks became a game of reminders on how to walk on lead. 

So, now, I regularly do what Finch does and make them earn the off lead by being good on lead. I park in a different spot and make them walk with me on lead until we are well inside the area. I vary the release place also, so they don't think that point is a definite off lead point and get excited.


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## harrigab

I like the concept of the loop over the nose in the first clip, gonna try that one with Ruby, (I'll try and vid it)
I also like the treat bag finch, I have a bag similar that I use for chalk when I'm climbing so I may just swap its purpose for a while. I usually keep the treats in my coat pocket, but sometimes I'll pull out one of the kids sweetie wrappers or lego figures instead


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## Ozkar

harrigab said:


> I like the concept of the loop over the nose in the first clip, gonna try that one with Ruby, (I'll try and vid it)
> I also like the treat bag finch, I have a bag similar that I use for chalk when I'm climbing so I may just swap its purpose for a while. I usually keep the treats in my coat pocket, _*but sometimes I'll pull out one of the kids sweetie wrappers or lego figures instead*_


That made me spill my drink


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## Coco

Great video finch. Very helpful. I mix treats with the kibble - but love the idea of just kibble.

Your video motivated me to go out this am and continue to practice - I was not doing the sit -nice break between the heels.


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## harrigab

tried it today, instant success, no pulling whatsoever, obviously I couldn't film putting the lead on Ruby, but I managed to film "the walk"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKrZVg_B6hQ&context=C3c02432ADOEgsToPDskI2hyK7y-XQ84xWvRONGt2X


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## threefsh

Brilliant! I have an almost-perfect heel using the "easy walk" harness... I think our next step will be this slip lead.


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## raps702

Nice video harrigab, no pulling.... excellent!!!!


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## threefsh

I had to add my video of Riley heeling this morning.  I am so proud of how far she has progressed at only 6 months! It takes a lot of work, but is SO worth it! 

http://youtu.be/Dikr8pHJOdM


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## harrigab

well done Riley  ...and you too Ashley


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## SteelCityDozer

AnOther method to try which I started trying is When the dog starts pulling simply stop walking. When they stop Pulling release tension on the leash to give slack. Wait for them to look back at you then continue the walk. We were told no head/neck collars with the epilepsy diagnosis. So "corrections" with them are a no no. At first it would take 40 min to go as far as what should take 10 min and that was being generous with the pulling. Now I'm not so lenient and walks r vastly better after maybe 5-6 sessions with some loose lead, some slight tension and some looking back at me WHILE walking.


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## finch

SteelCityDozer said:


> AnOther method to try which I started trying is When the dog starts pulling simply stop walking.



Yes! This is exactly the primary method (together with teaching "heel") that got the walk that you see above in my video. Our trainer teaches that as soon as your dog pulls, just stop and turn into a statue. They will soon learn that they are not getting to where they want to go faster, but rather slower! Another variation of this is to turn around and walk in the opposite direction... then the dog learns when they will they have to move away from their destination - not what they want! That is how I started out teaching loose lead, but then as soon as I learned how to teach "heel," then it all came together for us. If Finch pulls now, I stop immediately and don't move an inch forward until she lets up and gets back in heel position. Luckily, the pulling is much less frequent now.


Also, I don't recall if I mentioned this before, but no Flexi-leads! I never used one with Finch, but our 2 labs got much better once we stopped using Flexi's with them. Before, sometimes we'd let them run the line out as far as it would go, other times we could lock it to keep them close... it confused them and they didn't know what to expect. So now it is just one length all the time and they know where their position should be. So if you are having trouble getting a loose lead and you are using a Flexi, consider switching.


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## OttosMama

So it's taken some great inspiration from others' videos, a lot of walks, and an easy walk harness, but baby Otto has finally mastered some loose leash walking! I couldn't be more thrilled! I'm real proud of my little man - he used to pull until my hand throbbed - now it's a walk in the park! I just wanted to post because I'm so pleased with him and also to give others the same sense of *hope* that I felt when I saw the videos on this thread! 

I've always wanted to have a pup to accompany me on walks and runs and we're half way there! In a few more months we'll start working on jogging together ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09Pirf6VYW8&feature=plcp


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp9ATPJgzBM&feature=channel&list=UL


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## flynnandlunasmom

Great job Ottosmama! 

Did you all really use this method of putting the slip leash over the dogs nose?
I've never done it. We do use prong collars and "check" the dogs for minor correction if need be and they do ok. Well, at 7 Flynn is a pro, but Luna's coming along nicely. They respond well to the heel command. 

I can't help but feel that it seems mean to put the slip collar over the nose. Plus, when it's warm and they need to pant, how can they with their mouth closed? 

I'm totally not judging the folks who do this, but I am just surprised that so many of you do this. Maybe I'm just a wimp!


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## OttosMama

Thanks FlynnandLuna'sMom!

Oh no, I believe that video was posted as an example of "taming" a dog and getting him/her to heal rather quickly. I tried that ONCE on Otto in the house! He was not having it and it really freaked me out so I sought out other methods. I don't believe Finch or Ozkar used that method either. Just, as Ozkar would say, consistency and repetition!

To teach him "with me" or heal, I used the clicker method that I learned from this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFgtqgiAKoQ you tube video. Once he learned what I was looking for, I started him with the easy walk harness. Finch and Ozkar used regular collars, which is even more impressive!! but Otto would come by my side and then go right back in front, kind of like a yo-yo. With the easy walk, he stays right with me. If he does go ahead I pull the leash to my right a tad and it forces him to walk to the side and he slows down. If he gets too far ahead, I stop and tell him, right here, with me, and he comes back. 

He will pull slightly if we are on walks with other dogs, but NOTHING compared to before. I love this harness, only problem is we went for a 2 hour walk a few days ago and he chafed. So I used his collar the past couple days and loosened his harness today to see if that would help with the chafing.


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## texasred

Its not taming the dog, its teaching the dog to pay attention to its handler. You will hear the handler say that the dog is kinda spoiled. Meaning the dog is accustom to getting its way, The dog is being trained for hunting. A dog that hunts needs to be aware of its handler even if its a great distant away. Once the dog has learned to pay attention there is no reason to use the slip lead around his nose.


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## OttosMama

By teaching a dog to pay attention to its handler, can it not be said that you are getting the dog under control? Under the control of its handler? Hence, the handler is taming the dog. 

The method I use when working with Otto is also getting him under control, but it definitely did not happen as quickly as Higgins succeeded in getting that dog under control and walking by his side. I didn't see any problem with his method, other than when I tried it with Otto I wasn't comfortable with his reaction so I sought out another way.


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## texasred

I'm in no way downing your method. I use treats on young pups teaching them not to pull on the lead. I also use the stop and change direction. 
Then I teach the Stand until Released, like in the Bill Gibbons video.
Once we start working with birds in the field, the dogs could careless about treats while in the field. They will pick a bird over a big juicy steak. Some dogs will never need the loop over the nose but its a tool for those that do.
That is the reason I posted both methods. 
Some of the tools we use for hunt training work well even for the dog that will never be hunted.


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## OttosMama

I didn't think you were knocking it at all!  - I just didn't want you to think I had been knocking the original video during one of my more recent posts, sorry about the confusion ... it's just that, I was not comfortable with Otto's reaction and since I did not have an experienced trainer with me to correct whatever I may have been doing wrong - I just didn't want to carry through with it..

Out of curiosity, what do you think about the dog's tail being between his legs the whole time? I had noticed that, wasn't sure if he was scared or uncomfortable, or could it be read some other way?


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## born36

Oh you two! ;D


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## datacan

*
Dogs don't know why humans carry treats. All they know is that the other dog approaching is after the same treats. Even if your dog doesn't act out it thinks the "food is mine". There is no democracy in the dog world, the strong always win.

It is a *HUGE* mistake to walk with treats in my pockets. Serous trainers use treats only when introducing commands or use treats as enforcement in *controlled environments only*. 

If I cannot control the environment the dog is in, I don't use treats. I leave the flat collar at home! I Use a training collar instead!


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## born36

datacan said:


> *
> Dogs don't know why humans carry treats. All they know is that the other dog approaching is after the same treats. Even if your dog doesn't act out it thinks the "food is mine". There is no democracy in the dog world, the strong always win.
> 
> It is a *HUGE* mistake to walk with treats in my pockets. Serous trainers use treats only when introducing commands or use treats as enforcement in *controlled environments only*.
> 
> If I cannot control the environment the dog is in, I don't use treats. I leave the flat collar at home! I Use a training collar instead!


I would like to think Mac does not see every dog that approaches a threat to his food. In fact I often offer up treats to other dogs that are out and about with us and never has this caused Mac to protect the food. He will happily sit there next to the other dog and wait for his. I use treats my trainer uses treats and last time I checked my trainer is pretty serious. I use treats to change the behavior and then try to slowly decrease how often they are given. This reduction is not because I am fearful Mac is going to fight for his food but because once the behaviour happens without the treats I know that it is embedded. Different approaches to the same problem but not fair to call trainers that use treats out as being not serious.


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## texasred

OttosMama said:


> I didn't think you were knocking it at all!  - I just didn't want you to think I had been knocking the original video during one of my more recent posts, sorry about the confusion ... it's just that, I was not comfortable with Otto's reaction and since I did not have an experienced trainer with me to correct whatever I may have been doing wrong - I just didn't want to carry through with it..
> 
> Out of curiosity, what do you think about the dog's tail being between his legs the whole time? I had noticed that, wasn't sure if he was scared or uncomfortable, or could it be read some other way?


Just my take on that one video.
The dog was unsure and working with someone it hadn't been around for very long. It was a new concept to the dog. I don't think the dog was in pain at any time. They come to a understanding of what is expected of them. The handler stays calm. What he was doing was yard work, meaning away from birds.


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## datacan

@ born36 ... NO, you and your trainer are describing a form of controlling the environment. 
If you try that with a strange dog, it may be trouble.


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## flynnandlunasmom

Datacan, I respectfully disagree with your opinion and i agree with Born36 on this. Our behavioralist trainer also suggests treats on walks. I also use treats when my dog is off-leash to reinforce recall. When other dogs are around, I've given them treats. My dog has no problem with this.


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## texasred

Just my 2 cents.
Both are right depending on the dog and the other dogs you come into contact with.
Some some dogs will chose treats over other things and some will not.
A good many dogs won't go after another dog when handing out treats but there are some that will.


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## datacan

If this forum were to split into HUNTING and strictly House-pets, I would want to belong to the HUNTING side.

I am sorry, but I think this dog belongs in the field and even it is not going to see birds or fur it should still be trained according to the way hunters train pointing dogs.
I am of the opinion, this dog can live peacefully with a family that can train it properly. Paul Owners style training http://www.dogwhispererdvd.com/dog_training_experts.shtml is strictly for house pets not hunting dogs. 

Last time I checked the Vizsla was a hunting dog.


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## flynnandlunasmom

Not sure what you're implying but my dogs are trained properly and one of them is training to get her JH. Her trainer started out using treats with her too.


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## OttosMama

Datacan,

I'm not exactly sure why you would be concerned with other dogs being near yours while on an on leash walk, training to heel by your side. I was under the impression that you _never _ allowed strange dogs to approach Sam.


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## datacan

Depends on the dog. Many well trained dogs out there pose no need to worry. 
Generally I try to look at the attitude of the owner and the way they handle their dog... If I were to approach a big dominant looking dog, I am rather careful. So far, toy poodles in groups of 2 are our biggest concern.

Example: Sam was attacked by a standard size poodle, owner carried treats in their pockets and we were asked to approached the poodle. The idea was Sam and the poodle could sit side by side and each would get a treat... Things did not work out that way, the poodle violently jumped at Sam and when Sam retreated, the poodle started to chew the treats through the pants pocket of the owner :'(
Sad, because the poodle owner's daughter was a vet.


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## flynnandlunasmom

Alright, well that makes sense now datacan. 

I should clarify that I don't give treats to strange dogs who approach. I actually don't let strange dogs approach Flynn (if I can help it). I give treats to other dogs we are off-leash with, i.e. my mother-in-laws dogs or say Gracie the vizsla (Victoria on here is her mum).


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## Ozkar

I believe it is still better for all concerned if a normal collar can be utilised rather than any restrictive aids. to me, I want my dog walking nicely with me because he/she wants to, not because I have forced him or her to do it with a harness or nose muzzle of any description. But, just remember, I don't work much, so would rather spend 6 months getting it right and spending a lot of time with them than resort to other alternatives. 

Not saying not to do it, nor criticising those who do, *I* just believe there are better ways............


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## hotmischief

I tried the Higgens method on Boris and he went balistic at the bit around his nose. Twisting his head trying to get it off with his paws. Admittedly, I did not try for long as I did not want to drag this "disstressed" (not sure that that is the right word to describe his reaction) dog along until he got used to it. Like Ottosmama, I wasn't comfortable with his reaction and although it is taking some time I am training him to walk close with treats. He now walks close off lead with treats, but it is going to be a while before he is compliant without treats, but he will get it and boy am I going to be so proud when he does.


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## texasred

I personally don't make my young pups heel because I want to use them for hunting. So I would be more of a Gibbons person till they are older. Meaning pup can be in front of me just not pulling on me. The reason is I need the pup to work in front of me to find birds. My dogs rules are come to me, go with me and no jumping up on me in the field. I don't get stricter till they are bold and have had sometime in the field and love to find birds. The video with Higgins was not a young pup.
Do I think you hurt your young dog? NO. Constant pulling with any collar isn't good. At your pups age a slip lead around the neck (used correctly) is probably enough for now.
I would save the loop around the nose for later and only if they won't pay attention.
When my pups are small I put a treat in my hand and place it near my face when I speak to them. It gets them in the habit of looking at me for direction. Its a puppy game that will become a command later in life.


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## datacan

Tried this morning for 10 minutes, works with the British slip lead. 
Funny because Sam hated the Halti style over the muzzle lead we tried when he was 4 months old....is 16 months old now.

He even let me brush his teeth with the Gibbons style lead on... normally he just hates the dogie toothbrush. Also, he became unusually docile after the short walk ???

If I keep using the Gibbons method is Sam in danger of becoming a "boot licker" on our walks?


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## texasred

Dogs can learn that check cord means work out to the front and leash means walk at heel. They will also learn harness mean to pull. If he's not a booklicker already and you let him range out on runs ( and encourage it) then I don't see a problem. 
I only train my dogs, I'm not a paid trainer.
Where is Ken when you need him.


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