# Socialization



## city_dog (Feb 16, 2012)

I've searched around the forum a bit, but haven't seen too many things on helping socialize adult V's. 
My Sammy is going to be 3 in June, and is _really _scared of most noises, unknown objects, and won't come anywhere near visitors in our house. He's a lovable dog, and terribly affectionate with myself and my husband, but could care less about our 3 kids (who _really_ want to play with him. He is a re-home (although I'm starting to think it was more of a rescue) and while I want to give him time to "settle in" and get used to the new routine/house/area, I think it's deeper than that. 

He was explained to me as being a Field Trial wash-out - unwilling to run out ahead, just wanting to stay beside the handler... I think it was because he cowers at every single noise that he hears... including birds!

I was a bit nervous at first that there was something "not right" about the situation, but I also had the feeling that this guy needed me. And having owned high-energy dogs before (I had 10 Alaskan huskies - all sled dogs) I knew I could handle the needs, so I brought him home with me. He's been very eager to learn - he mastered walking on a leash and sitting on command within a week.

He has never growled or been aggressive with the kids and I am developing a relationship between them daily, by letting them feed him, and brush him. When company comes over, though, even if it's my parents, he'll hide under my desk in the office and shake like he's freezing. They don't approach him, and I've tried giving them treats to give him, but he won't come out... 

Even going for walks... for the first few days, he was very nervous of going for a walk on the path surrounding our neighbourhood, then he seemed to become very comfortable with is, and was no longer jumping at every single thing (cable boxes, burlap-covered trees, etc) then it turned cold one morning and it was like we were in a brand new neighbourhood again... he was basically crawling on the ground, tail tucked, looking very nervous - and shaking. Everything I read tells me to ignore this and keep moving on, or if I can see what exactly he is afraid of, I have been approaching it and sitting on it/kicking it/showing him it won't hurt him.

I'm worried that he wasn't socialized when he was young, and that it will be difficult to get him ok with people - I don't care if he runs up with tail wagging, but I don't want him to cower and avoid every person that comes into our house.

Any thoughts/suggestions? I'm sorry for the essay... Everyone on here seems so knowledgeable... I may have left out some things, so feel free to ask questions - it's a complicated situation, for sure!


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

Even if your boy won't come out to get the treats, have your guests toss small bits of treats to him. Tell them not to make eye contact with him either... that will make him feel more at ease. He needs to learn that strangers = yummy treats and nothing bad will happen to him. Give them REALLY good treats (pieces of hot dog, chicken, or steak). Sooner or later he will start getting excited when people come over because he will expect good things to come his way.

When we were out walking last night, Riley was afraid of some big flags flapping in the wind. The first thing I did was make her sit and I gave her several treats. I then walked over and talked to the flag and poked at it a bunch of times like it was no big deal. She totally relaxed and came over to sniff it herself.

It sounds like you're doing all the right things so far... keep up the good work and it will pay off!


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2012/01/sometimes-life-gives-second-chances.html

Patience, love and understanding. You may have a fearful Vizsla. There are many. I have Chloe and even with socialization and all the work we have done, she has "fear" issues. Genes play a part.

The above story tells of how a rescue was brought out of it. Not all dogs will unfortunately. 

Until Sammy's fear is delt with I would be very careful around the little ones. I use city walks twice a week with my two even now. They learn that new things don't hurt. Sammy may be "reliving" past issues that you will never know about. Watch what causes the tail to drop. Those are engrained. Slowly introduce what you have to and avoid those that don't need to be addressed. Hang gliders will always cause Chloe to panic. I see hang gliders, we go somewhere else. That is not going to change.

Protect your three kids. That is paramount. Sammy may not be a family dog. Your experience with Huskies sure will help.

Ceasar Millan does a great job in his books. Highly recommend grabbing a copy of one of his basic dog books. His writing style is very understandable. He "gets" troubled dogs.

Good luck to you and Sammy.

RBD


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## laurita (Jun 12, 2011)

Hi there,

I would check out the Cautious Canine by Patricia McConnell. She owns a fearful border collie named Willie and talks about counterconditioning him in her blog, too. It can be a long process, but I think there are definitely things that can be done to build confidence in your dog; it will take some exercises and practice and knowing what sets Sammy off and not pushing him past his threshold. As you mentioned, you may not be able to get Sammy to the exact point that you want him to be at, but it can be greatly improved.


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## ironman_stittsville (Oct 12, 2011)

threefsh said:


> ... I then walked over and talked to the flag and poked at it a bunch of times like it was no big deal. She totally relaxed and came over to sniff it herself....


I have done this exact thing when Phoebe and I come across something that she is afraid of. I won't acknowledge her worry but I go over and spend some time looking at and exploring the new thing (in this case a piece of construction equipment parked in our walking field). I have poked at it, sat on it, walked around it, smelled it... kind of embarassing actually...

Rh.


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## polkan (Dec 29, 2011)

I think there is a difference between a somewhat cautious young dog and a very fearful 3 year old, in the sense of how much fearfulness has been internalized and became the "normal" way for the dog to cope with unfamiliar things and people. Plus, temperament is hereditary.

There is a special program developed for adult fearful dogs in the late 1970s by Victoria Voith. She is a dog researcher, university professor and a founding member of the American College of Veterinary Behaviorists. 

The program is called "Sit-Stay" (not the traditional obedience kind). It's a counter-conditioning program that's based on teaching the dog to look at the trainer and literally "wait" (in the "stay" part) for some reward in progressively more and more complex/distracting situations, until it is released. 

Most dogs enter a certain mental state in the "wait" mode, a kind of relaxed anticipation and they self-inhibit reactivity to other stimuli (there's a pretty interesting neuro-biological explanation for this).

Once the basic sit-stay is taught, the trainer then performs it in a progression of increasing duration of stay, distance from the dog and distraction level. It's based on positive reinforcement and minimizing errors by a dog (the dog can break the stay at any time, it is never forced to be in a stay and is not punished). 

It's completely voluntary, rewarded stay, that teaches a dog to chose to focus on cooperating with the trainer regardless of the environment, instead of reacting to environment.

I'm oversimplifying this, but Voith wrote a tutorial on how to do it at home, which should be available online. Some of the examples of distractions are really funny (an unfamiliar house guest banging a spoon on a pan, while the dog is in "stay", eyes locked on the trainer; a few weeks down the road). 

The disadvantage of this program is that it's excruciatingly boring for the trainer. It also has to be done in baby steps, and takes a very long time (for genetic fearfulness, for example, it becomes an integrated part of the daily interaction with the dog). For this reason, few behaviorists who charge for their services offer it, it's not a quick fix but more like long-term therapy.

The advantage is the success rate, especially with entrenched fearfulness. 

Good luck, I hope you find a way with your V!


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## jld640 (Sep 29, 2010)

Seems like quite a bit of good advice already. I only have a bit of info to add. My sister adopts last chance-ers from her local shelter - usually older, physically unappealing, and sometimes fearful. She has had rabbits, cats, dogs (no Vs, so this may not be directly applicable), and birds. The one constant she has always found is that for all of these animals, home isn't home until one full set of seasons has passed. When they start seeing the same plants they remember coming back in spring, or start seeing the same bird migration routes in the fall, or start seeing the same Christmas decorations, they seem to settle more and more.

If her observation applies to your V, then you should see the 'brand new neighborhood' a few more times. With all the other suggestions here, you should see improvement every time the 'new' neighborhood appears. Good luck!


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

I didn't want to make too much of it before you got him, but I was worried that this might be the outcome based on how long he lived on their property.
The fact that they'd sell a dog like that, leaves a bad taste in my mouth about OnPoint. 
They knew what they were selling, but you didn't know what you were buying.

Lots of good tips so far and all I can add is what I mentioned in an earlier post. Try to find something fun for him to do while he's scared. No petting, just command him to do something and feel proud of him no matter how small the task.

I do hope you can help this guy out. 
Have you contacted OnPoint regarding some advice? 
I have no idea what you paid for him, but regardless, I would personally ask that they supplement the cost of a professional to help you guys teach him how to live a comfortable life.


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## city_dog (Feb 16, 2012)

Mischa said:


> Have you contacted OnPoint regarding some advice?


I have sent a couple of emails, but haven't heard anything back yet. I'm not expecting perfection, and I should probably give him lots of time to settle in...not a terribly patient person, I'm afraid :-\

check that... Kim's going to call me tomorrow, apparently. Again, this is probably me juts rushing him, but I want to be sure I'm doing the right things right off the bat, so I don't make a mess of it...


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

My pointer Zsa Zsa was a rescue at 12 months of age. She had a horrible start to life. Lived on her own in the bush from the age of 3 months till 6 or 7 months, then she was found by a woman and eventually made her way to Blue Cross animal shelter. She was very close to being PTS. She had never had human contact, had never socialised with other dogs, and was very sick and emaciated. Thankfully Blue Cross gave her a chance and she ended up here with us.

At first, she suffered almost the same anxieties as your dog is exhibiting. She was perhaps a little more comfortable with people surprisingly, but the environment was her biggest challenge. She had never been trained at all. Not sit, not come, not heel and certainly not on a lead. The guy at the shelter who walked the dogs wouldn't take her on the walks, as she was too erratic. Crossing leads and getting all tangled up every time she shied from a rustling bush, leaf, car, tree branch, bird or person. 

I just kept slowly repeating block walks till she was comfortable, then moved on to another area till comfortable, then back to a few block walks, then back to the new area. I reckon it only took a few weeks for the walks to become relaxed for her mostly. But, noises, wind, darkness and movements all made her jumpy for a good few months. But, I have to say, now, apart from the very odd occassion, she is rock solid! So, there is hopefully light at the end of tunnel for Sammy. Good luck, although after running 10 Huskies, you shouldn't really be challenged   


Just had to add.......as a typed this, she was asleep on her bed by my desk.........snoring her little heart out!!!!


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

You need to change what he thinks is normal. It will take allot of time and mostly love and attention. He is now your baby and you are his world. Show him the way and build confidence in everything he does. I mean everything. If he looks up at you and wags his tail it's "GOOD BOY SAMMY! GOOD BOY!!" Forget that he is 3. He is a puppy and you should protect him and let him explore and grow on his own, on his terms and at HIS pace. Build confidence with lots of love. Everything he does is reacted to and reinforced with love, petting and an atta boy!  Once you find out what he loves (maybe cheese or hot dogs) use it! If he looks or turns his head to a bird -> immediately give him a piece of cheese and jump up and down like a mother who's son just hit the winning home run! It will take time but he will make progress and you need to not ever stop! He will keep moving forward WITH you, as you change his world from a fearful place, to one that has allot of intersting fun things! Unfortunately the ones who raised him didn't have the time Sammy needed.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Great post Linescreamer! It's funny, your posts are sometimes so benevolent, and then at other times quite strict and disciplined. Not criticising, as I think I agree with most things you post. Just interesting to see similar mindsets with similar balance in thoughts. Soft and firm. Yin and Yang so to speak.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> Unfortunately the ones who raised him didn't have the time Sammy needed.


Linescreamer. Agree with Ozkar. Great response. I think your closing statement is the basis of much of dogs problems in general.

As I walk my dogs down the street I hear barking dogs in backyards and wonder if their owners ever take them for a walk. My daughter's neighbor has a dog that barks all the time and jumps at their fence. Is that why they got a dog? To ignore it?

Times are tough and their are only so many hours in a week. A dog is not a possession but a member of the family or a working dog with a purpose.

First give Sammy a family and a purpose to be happy. Then give Sammy a purpose for living. We all need that.

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/07/purchasing-vizsla-so-it-doesnt-end-up.html

Off to a field trial. 100 mile drive one way.

Happy trails and trials,
RBD


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

I misunderstood the meaning of dog socialization. I mistakenly thought socialization is taking the puppy to new places to experience new things, smells, sights. I thought taking my GSD pupy to Petsmart or the local dog park was socialization (I got Tony when he was 6 months - previous owner just left him with me because they thought I knew about dogs :'().

I later learned *the real meaning of socialization is taking the puppy to new places and having pup focus on me and not on the environment*. If I achieve that I can call that job done. On to the next place...

Luckily, I learned from the mistakes I made with Tony and our new Vizsla baby boy (Sam 1 yr old) benefited enormously.

Those who think that taking the puppy to meet people, dogs and places is enough, are flat wrong and don't know much about dog training. *Socializing a dog means having full control of the dog with the dog focusing on them and not the environment.*


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## city_dog (Feb 16, 2012)

Ok - so I took an assortment of things from each of your posts (every dog learns differently right?) and boy have I found what works for Sammy!!! Lots of positive reinforcement, a bit of ignoring, and a whole lot of affection.
While doing our weekly visit to Petsmart, an acquaintance who happens to be a trainer there offered me a clicker to help reinforce all the "good" things about our new life, and to help teach him to focus on me. I figured, why not... try it and see.
I spent an entire day "loading" the clicker, then took the clicker with me for our "big" walk/run (about 45 minutes) that night. 
Children screaming? Normally he'd tuck tail and run, pulling as hard as he could to get as far away as possible. This time? He looked at them, then to me. Click - itty bitty treat; tail was up and wagging within 30 seconds.

It's like he became a different dog almost overnight...

Thank you to all of you. I know exactly where to come back to, should I have more questions.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

wonderfull, Petsmart has some smart trainers (not all, though). I kind of got free advice as well...because the trainer had a V ;D


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

Glad to hear that city_dog!


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## Crazy Kian (Aug 10, 2009)

Success is always a good thing....CONGRATS TO BOTH OF YOU.


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

Ozkar said:


> Great post Linescreamer! It's funny, your posts are sometimes so benevolent, and then at other times quite strict and disciplined. Not criticising, as I think I agree with most things you post. Just interesting to see similar mindsets with similar balance in thoughts. Soft and firm. Yin and Yang so to speak.


I'm good at reading between lines. Some words are not written but read. Others are; and of no consequence.  I come on strong when needed. In this case it was definitely not needed. Sammy needs help City-dog, and it appears he has found you and now you both have purpose. ;D


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Research on early socialization and breeding. Does the breeder socialize the pups before you take your pup home?

http://www.pethealthnetwork.com/lif...and-sensitive-period-when-it-and-it-important

Summary of report above:

First, the puppy’s socialization should start early—before five weeks of age, because by five weeks the puppy is showing fear responses to people, objects and other unfamiliarity around them. That means it’s essential that breeders and foster puppy caretakers carry out a socialization plan. Secondly, the socialization should start before 14 weeks of age or many puppies will be doomed to a life of fear unless they go through a regimen of socialization that’s more intense than the 1.5 hours a day carried out by the researchers here. The message is simple and straightforward and taking it to heart can be the difference between having a happy, well-adjusted dog to one who fearful of people, objects, other animals, and various environments that we humans perceive as safe.[/color]


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## redrover (Mar 17, 2011)

Yay! Oh, man, I love clicker training. Love it. It takes a lot of guess work out of the whole thing, since it's an immediate and consistent signal that what the dog has done is right. They don't have to interpret your different ways of saying, "Yes!" or your changing body language--they know they've done something good, and that they just did it, and yummy things are about to happen. 

I've also used a marker word like, "Yes!" before, but I never get the same level of responsiveness or the same speed of learning from my dog with it as compared to the clicker. I probably don't get it out as often as I should--there are some things Jasper could really learn better. 

Anyway, I'm glad things are progressing well for you!


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