# Scared of kids



## Gus_of_MN (Aug 10, 2012)

Sorry if this gets long. So Gus in general is a pretty skittish dog when it comes to sounds, new places or new things. Well as of recently he has become scared of kids too. Everything was fine up until we hosted thanksgiving and all 7 nieces and nephews were over (all under 6yrs old). The kids were being kids and just loud like kids will be, not causing trouble just loud, well Gus hated every second they were there, he stayed in his kennel most the time because he felt comfortable there i guess. Well last weekend I went ice fishing with my brother in laws and they brough 3 children with them in a pretty crammed sleeper ice house. Well Gus pretty much immediately wanted nothing to do with them and avoided them at any expense. I told the kids to stay away and give him space to warm up to them. He laid down next to my chair to be away from them. Well my 6 yr old nephew kept coming to pet Gus so Gus krept under my chair to hide. Despite several warnings my nephew came over to pet Gus under the chair and Gus barked/yipped (the get away from me im terrified kind of bark) and nipped at my nephew. I tried to grab Gus under the chair and he actually bit me (I dont think he knew it was my hand). Anywho, I was pretty upset at both Gus and my nephew. I put Gus in the pickup and we left shortly after.

So my question is, what do i do???

Ive been taking him on more walks where there are more people than our usual trail walks. He seems to be getting better with strangers walking up to us. But come summer time we will be spending alot of time with the family and we never leave Gus behind.

I could use lots of help here so feel free to send it my way
Thanks in advance


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2009/07/raina-and-jada-super-dog-training.html

Gus, let me know if this helps. It worked for our fear-based female: Chloe.

Good luck.

RBD


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

I'd take the kids on a walk with Gus or something similar that he enjoys so that he associates the kids with "good times". When Ruby was a pup she could be grumpy with my two young boys so I got them involved in the basic training, feeding her etc. The feeding one was a good exercise where the boys would dish her food out and make her wait for the "take it" command. Now they can do pretty much anything with her and she's great with their friends when they come over to play. She is, however, still wary of adult strangers (apart from when we're out on the shoot) that try to invade her space.


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

Agree with RBD. We too have experienced fear of children with our 14 month old Miles. We hired an 8 year old boy in the neighborhood to walk Miles with us and it has helped a lot. He allowed a little girl to pet him at the park over the weekend. We are reading a book called Behavior Adjustment Training and we have learned some good tools for working with our fearful dog.


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## lyra (Nov 2, 2012)

Gus_of_MN said:


> Anywho, I was pretty upset at both Gus and my nephew


Hmm. I think you missed out the worst offender 

You took a dog that you knew from thanksgiving wasn't comfortable with children and forced him into a confined, unfamiliar environment with three young children. You then expected a six year old to not show any interest in a dog, a six year old that you prevented from repeatedly approaching your dog. A fearful dog had only two reactions, flight or fight, and you put him in a position where flight wasn't an option. The result was inevitable and due to the choices you made. Please don't blame Gus or the child who behaved just as I would have expected them to.

I know if someone was to say this to me in a forum my first reaction would be to be pretty annoyed but I hope you will see beyond that reaction and realise I am trying to be helpful. You need to see that both the dog and child were only doing what is natural and it is you, as the adult and dog owner, who are going to have to re-evaluate if you want to make progress with this issue.

I am just as guilty as you in that I know we haven't yet socialised Lyra to children. As you seem to have relatives of an appropriate age I would suggest that you arrange for *one* of them to spend some time at your house (so Gus is comfortable with the environment). You want a child who likes dogs but has some patience and isn't too skittish themselves (do such children exist? ) Make sure the child has something they like to do so they aren't bored and just want to play with the dog. Explain to the child that Gus is frightened and the best way to gain his confidence is to ignore him for a bit. Give Gus some time to get used to their presence then take it from there. Maybe the child could give Gus some treats, go on an a short on leash walk with you, etc. You know what Gus likes so think of the sort of activities that you could involve a child with that isn't going to be too in 'in his face'. Naturally you will have to supervise, both for your presence for Gus but you will also have to educate the child on the sort of things Gus likes and, more importantly, doesn't like. You will be training two individuals, not one!

I have also read about walking your dog past schools when children are arriving/leaving. This may help Gus to see children as a normal part of the environment but I would make sure you don't let children get within 'petting range' at this stage.

I don't envy your task. I think socialising to children (especially younger children) is really hard if you don't have your own kids. This is clearly important to you and your circumstances though so good luck and be prepared to put a lot of time in.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

RBD 8)

I took Sammy past playgrounds and stopped for every kid that wanted to pet him. 
I pet him at the same time the kid pet him. NO TREATS, just gentle petting. 
One time I had a line up of 5 kids all waiting patiently to pet Sammy. He must have lost a lot of loose hairs that day. 

Now, I am able to let him off leash around playgrounds.

I noticed that Sammy became aware of his tail wagging habit and tries to control it around small children. 
It also helps if the dog was washed recently. Kids will want to touch them.


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## KB87 (Jan 30, 2012)

As suggested, I would find a fearless child who is patient and confident around dogs to start the process. Have the child go on leisurly walks with you and the dog, have them give him treats, pet him at the same time as you. I might even suggest starting with an older child (10/11) who you can explain to that they need to be gentle and slow. Then once Gus is more comfortable with the older child bring in a younger child. My experience with most smaller children is that their movements are just so quick that it scares the dog and sometimes they have trouble conceptualizing why the dog is acting the way that they are so perhaps an older child would be best to break Gus in first.

Be patient, learn your dog's cues and let his comfort build naturally. Forcing things may result in deeper fear for Gus (or the child) or someone getting hurt.


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## Gus_of_MN (Aug 10, 2012)

Lyra, i must say that it does physically hurt to type that you are correct. I should have realized that things probably wouldnt go well and removed Gus from the situation. However there werent supposed to be kids on a GUYS fishing adventure, hence the reason i brought Gus along, but that is besides the original point. So thanks for your advice.

As far as getting Gus acquainted to children I guess i have lots of work ahead of me. Im new to the neighborhood and its winter here so it may be difficult to find neighborhood kids this time of year to work with Gus, but I will certainly do my best to give Gus all the tools he needs to be with children in the future.

What do ya'll think of having my oldest nephew or another child use treats to get Gus to approach him/her instead of the child approaching Gus. My thinking is that if Gus sees children as a good thing he is more apt to be comfortable around children


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

I would have your nephew ignore him and let the dog approach when he's ready.


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## lyra (Nov 2, 2012)

Ahhh the classic guy without kids / guy with kids clash 

I presume you don't have kids so (as a parent with 3 almost adult kids) I will give you a little insight into how parents sometimes think, especially about a holiday situation like this. They will look at you and think "he's lucky enough to be able to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, he can't possibly object to me bringing my kid(s) along especially as I am a hard working parent who rarely gets chance for a break". Parents are like dog owners, they think their kids/dogs farts don't smell and everybody is going to automatically love them ;D 

Back to the subject. You will hopefully get a variety of suggestions (and I'm watching too because it's something I need to tackle as well) but you know your dog best so ultimately it's going to depend on what you think will work with your dog and what resources are available to you.

My first attempt was a complete disaster. I am a school governor. I had read that puppies were much less frightened before the age of 16 weeks so I decided to take Lyra into school during a break time. Within seconds I had attracted a huge crowd and a poor terrified Lyra was trying to crawl out of my arms onto my head, her favourite fear response at that age which fortunately she no longer tries! (It's so frustrating, I potentially have contact with 400 children but if I was to invite one home to play with my puppy the only certain outcome would be a visit from the boys in blue ) What an idiot I was that day, I probably did a lot of harm that I will have to unravel in the future. 

That leads me to my last advise. Whatever you do, take it slowly. A good experience will take you one step forward, a bad experience will take you two (or more) steps back. Finally, with relatives and people you know well and see regularly, I would explain that Gus isn't used to children yet and finds them frightening. People (parents) who have not been dog owners don't understand that dogs view adults and children differently. I think they assume that as a child is smaller it is less threatening when it is of course children they find more difficult because of their quick movements and unpredictable behaviour. So educate them and that way put some of the responsibility for their children's behaviour back on the parents.


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## VictoriaW (Mar 16, 2011)

Gus_of_MN,

See this event as a gift, and seize the opportunity. 

Find a personal trainer who emphasizes positive training. Clicker training works especially great with kids & dogs, because it helps send clear signals to the dog about what behavior is desirable. If the treats are REALLY GOOD, dogs learn fast.

How many of your nieces & nephews are local? Spring for a pack of private lessons. Have the first one alone with trainer and dog so that Gus gets the idea that seeing the trainer show up is the best thing that could ever happen to him.

Then, schedule a series of one-on-one Uncle Outings. No more than one kid at a time until you all get exceptionally good at this. For the first hour, have the trainer supervise and guide interactions between the child and the dog, with Gus getting handsomely rewarded. Afterward, take kid and dog for a hike in the woods and buy the child an ice cream. You will be a HERO.

After you and your nieces and nephews have been trained by the trainer, you should be able to keep it up over time on your own. Try to have at least one Uncle Outing per year per kid. Gus will very likely come around and be a much more solid dog. Plus, you will make memories with your nieces and nephews that will last a lifetime.

Good luck to you and to Gus. Wishing you all the best!


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> That leads me to my last advise. Whatever you do, take it slowly. A good experience will take you one step forward, a bad experience will take you two (or more) steps back.


Lyra, this was a key with Chloe. Never rush it. Little wins and stop. Make sure you talk to the children and let them know they are "dog trainers" and their job is to be calm and in control. It really is good for the children to feel responsible also. With my neighborhood girls that I used, I made sure we had a plan each day on what we were going to accomplish. The sessions were never more than 10 minutes long and went on maybe three times a week for three months.

At almost 6 years old our Chloe still doesn't "like" kids but can now put up with them. Our 2 1/2 year old granddaughter, Lily, can come over and she can tell Chloe: "off", "sit", "down" and Chloe will do what she tells her because she knows the next command will come from me in a less pleasant tone.

Set your fear-based Vizsla up for as many little wins as possible. Look for trouble way ahead of time and figure out how to avoid stress on the dog. I have left situations where the dynamics just were not right. Be proactive and not reactive. Life is easier that way.

My .02. Off for an early morning hill walk.

RBD


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

We have a Gus that is terrified of children as well, although his fear was evident from the second day we brought him home at 10 weeks when he snapped at a little girl. My advice is whatever you do, treat this as a very serious problem and stick with whatever behavior modification you choose. We slacked off a lot once our baby was born and Gus has gotten much worse. I can't even walk him when there are children 100 yards away across the street. He panics, freezes, and refuses to move. He also tried to bite our 18 month old niece through his crate door. So don't do what we did- stick with training -no "breaks". 

Also, it is true if you push it too far too fast, you can make things 100x worse. I think we are guilty of that as well since when he was a puppy we just did not know the extent of his issues!


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## jld640 (Sep 29, 2010)

Great advice about the re-introduction. I'll add just a couple of other points. 

When you are picking which nephew or neighbor to start with, make sure the child will be a continuous, but not constant presence. My neighbors saw Savannah every few days, so Savannah became familiar with them, but didn't have to deal with them every time she went outside. BTW, as an added bonus, they are the same ages as my nieces and nephews who only visit once a year. The transition from neighbors to relatives was seamless!

Kids - in my limited experience - don't do well with general instructions like 'give the dog some space'. They do really well with specific instructions. 'Under the chair is Gus's home base. He is off limits when he is there.' Of course, you will then be subject to the whining of 'he is always under there', but that is your problem, not Gus’s, to handle. Also, parents don't get 'the dog needs space' means keep the little kids away. They do understand, 'your three year old could get knocked over when Gus stands up'. I have yet to see a parent pick up their kid for the first comment or a parent not pick up their kid when I have said the second.


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## VictoriaW (Mar 16, 2011)

jld60, great observations. 

Similar tactics also work for owners of small yappy dogs with bad manners...


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

Many times :

In front of your Honors" :'(

Is he Blonde and a Biggen?

eyes Blue? ???

Then ran I was scared of those kids as well

Why did my Lawyers all fire me?


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