# Reputable breeder - multiple litters



## OttosMama (Oct 27, 2011)

Hi guys,

I'm looking for opinions and advice. 

When we chose our breeder we were pretty new at the whole process and went about it completely wrong. I based my decision on a gut feeling instead of doing better homework. Luckily, Otto is wonderful and so far, a healthy boy (knock on wood). I had asked our breeder how frequently he had litters and he said that he hardly has them in consecutive years. However, when watching videos of Otto as a baby on YouTube, I came across a separate litter that was born (if i remember correctly) 3 weeks before Otto. He has already had two litters this year. When I inquired into who the puppies' parents are, he did not answer. 

I'm assuming the reason reputable breeders have infrequent litters is because their primary concern is with improving the breed - and in order to do so they have to search for an appropriate match for their sire/dame. If I have this wrong, please let me know why it is that they are so infrequent. Also, im assuming bc it is so costly and difficult to break even?

I should say that Otto's breeder has been helpful and has contacted us a few times since we first brought him home - but I can't help but wonder what's going on. 

In the future, how exactly does one locate a reputable breeder? On the one hand - I could choose from my immediate area, however, would I be limiting myself to just a select group of breeders and try and find the best amongst them? Or should I look nation wide? Then I could be running into a similar situation and only talk with the breeder instead of meeting the dogs in person. 

Just looking for others' opinions/experiences/expertise

Thanks everyone!


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## kjmitch (Mar 23, 2012)

Not sure if I have great advice but when getting Loke I starred hinting around to wanting a V, then
I went to a dog show and became even more confided  what finally made me decide on my breeder was a co-worker and his brother had gotten dogs from him and both were very happy. The whole process is so difficult and confusing, I second thought my design a couple times, so far so good! Next time I would ask around on this forum and talk to my current breeder ( he's in his 70's and probably won't be breeding V's when I'm ready for another)


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

With Ozkar, we searched for a father first and foremost. We then asked the breeder to be listed when he sired a litter. Ozkar's dad has strong Hungarian lines, with a broader head and shorter more muscular body. His dad (Quest), was also really laid back, and had history in conformation as well as trialling and hunting. Mostly though, we wanted a dog which had a strong physical resemblance to Quest. We then met mum (Roxy) before making a final decision. 

We also did due diligence on health, as well as speaking to owners who had Quests lines and trying to find anything which might make us think twice. 

In the end, Ozkar is exactly what we wanted, however, he has allergy issues. They are manageable, but it's a constant thing unfortunately.

Astro comes from a breeder who until recently probably produced at least 1/4 of all the Vizslas in Oz. However, this breeder also breeds very selectively and is also the most awarded breeder in Oz across all disciplines. Ozkar's great grandparents come from this breeder. Astro I had never seen apart from a puppy pic and I did no research on him or his lines. I just took him as a rehome and didn't care. The breeder seriously backs up her dogs and is very interested in how he is doing. I had no hesitation in taking a dog sight unseen from her. As it turns out, Astro has turned out to be the most amazing boy. Way too big, but i never intend to show him and he had his goolies removed prior to me getting him, so breeding with him is never an option. He has nil health issues and is just a good little boy!! 

So I guess from all that..... you can take out that it probably isn't so important as to the amount of litters produced by a breeder, more that they have the right stock and mix the right dogs to continue to maintain and improve the lines. 

I would try and look for a dog or bitch you like and then go from there. Like getting to know Bailey and then getting one of his progeny.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Otto's Mom,
Great questions. 
Think of the hobby breeder and the thousands upon thousands of dollars that they have invested in not just this litter but litters over many years and generations of dogs. 

A field championship can cost $100K+. A show championship can cost $10's of thousands .

This breeding thing done correctly is a true labor of love. 

First the hunt part. The breeder will most-likely own horses as many field trials are horseback trials. He or she may also be a judge in field trials many weekends a year and thousands of miles of travel. They belong and often are board members of the Vizsla Club of America or local chapters. They are active in the breed and know most of the other hobby breeders in the area. They help each other make the local Vizsla club events better and welcome new Vizsla owners into the group. They help with rescue with either time or money. 

Second in the conformation part. The breeder wants to make sure the dog is "built right" for the breed standard. Winning a AKC show championship is not easy with Vizslas. With it's short coat and strong build every piece to the puzzle is out there for the world to see. There is no hiding imperfections. At shows, the Vizsla breeders are there to "check out" the gene pool and how the standards are being met. Talk about opinions. But in Versatile Vizsla (the book) the standards are right there in black and white and with pictures. Most show judges know the correct standard. When a Vizsla is walking or running in the ring, the judge can see if all the parts are put together right. 

The hobby breeder has a female that won't have a litter until after 2 1/2 years old and very few have a litter after 6. They have their "girls" and maybe two litters or three in their lifetime. Some litters are as few as one pup. The litter of 4 to 6 is good so the pups get enough to eat without taxing the mother.

The male stud fee is one pup usually. The male stud owner has to be very careful on the mating. The pedigree will have his name on it and if there are temperament issues or health issues with the litter or even later litters then the sire is on the pedigree. Not good if unknown to the sire issues come up because of the mating.

So given all the hobby breeder does to produce these great pups, what do they want from a buyer?

Well they want "something to show for it." Hobby breeders want their pups to go into the field and shine or/and into the ring and wow. These are their creations. The fruits of their labors. 

You'd have to ask yourself "what is it I will do with their precious gift to me that will pay them back for their efforts?" If you say money, that would be low on the scale. The hobby breeder doesn't look at the money they make. They may look at the money as a small partial return of expenses.

Go to club events and talk and listen. Go to field trials and talk and listen. Go to dog shows and talk and listen. You will find them and if you can provide them with a good reason to give you a pup you will make it on their list.


Long winded response to a quality question.

Now the sky is getting light and I have some hills to walk for a couple hours with the dogs. Listening to the new sequel to "A Dog's Purpose" on the I-touch called "A Dog's Journey." Good story.

Happy trails and 4th of July.

RBD


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

RBD hit the nail on the head.
They have invested so much time and money into one dog that its pups will never make a profit over what has been spent on it. Its for the love of the breed. Seeing them excel in the field, show ring and every other event they run them in. Their females won't have a litter every year. These dogs are busy taking on the world. The dogs mean so much more to them than putting pups on the ground.


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## OttosMama (Oct 27, 2011)

Thank you all for answering.

I really appreciate All of your responses - RBD, I welcome the long winded response - full of great information and eye opening as far as what the breeder expects in return for his/her hardwork producing top quality litters! 

I've always been one to be extremely impulsive - and as I said before, I love Otto because he's great, so I lucked out. However, after learning all I have from this forum alone, I've realized for my next one - I really want to have a much stronger grasp on where he/she comes from. I also want to get to know the breeder better as well as the breeder's philosophy/priorities/expectations.
This whole adventure has been an amazing learning experience.

Thanks again guys! RBD- welcome back


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## flynnandlunasmom (May 28, 2012)

Ottosmama, it is really such a shame Suzanne Gray of Dirigo Vizslas passed away. We got Luna from her and she was located here in Massachusetts and had been breeding v's for approx 30 years. She had stacks upon stacks of photos of her dogs winning championships over the years and if you Google Dirigo there's a lot out there about her dogs. She was also on the board of local chapters etc. It pains me to think I won't be ale to get my next V from her. I know her husband was very involved in the process with her, so I'm wondering if he, or one of her children, would continue breeding. I know a friend of the family and could ask when the time was right but it's probably still too soon. 

Also, I know Victoria has been very happy with Gracie's breeder. 

PS - Otto is great and you're lucky you got him


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## moonlightviz (Aug 17, 2012)

Reputable breeders do *not* breed often (generally a litter - or less) per year and they take a wait list in advance. In general, puppies are most often spoken for before birth (and often even before conception). The gestation period of a dog is 9 weeks and breeders will keep their puppies until 8-10 weeks so you should anticipate a 4-6 month wait if you are seeking a responsible breeder. 

Two helpful links: 

"A Dozen Simple Ways to Know if You are Dealing with a Reputable Breeder" 
http://speakingforspot.com/blog/201...ain-you-are-working-with-a-reputable-breeder/

"A Comparison Responsible Breeders vs. of Backyard Breeders (BYB)"
http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/comparison.html


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## moonlightviz (Aug 17, 2012)

Additionally, it is NOT common for a reputable breeder to own both the sire and dam.


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## veifera (Apr 25, 2012)

What is the definition of "multiple breedings per year"?

I find this term to be a way to distinguish from an indiscriminate puppy mill, but a misleading term.

Marion Coffman (Cariad line) bred more than once per year. The Boggs family (Behi line) did too. These breeders produced some of the best Vizslas in US history. So did the Rezanecks (Rebel Rouser line). 

It takes 2 to 4 years to see the result of one breeding (offspring and their own get plus hips on all). If a breeder has a specific plan in mind, it wouldn't be possible to realize it with one or less breeding per year.

The reason some breeders breed so infrequently is because they are simply trying to breed the best to the best and it's very hard to find. It's a casual breeding, not a long-term plan, and is simply a different approach. 

Breeding with a plan is hard, time consuming and expensive. If you happen to own an outstanding dog, it's much easier and cheaper to have a casual breeding to another top dog. And wow, you're "reputable"!

I think it's better to distinguish by the purpose behind the breeding than the amount of litters per year, such as one or less.


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