# Just keep intact?



## [email protected] (Dec 2, 2018)

Eli is 1 year old. I'm waiting until he is 18 months to get him neutered. After the obligatory rough patch as younger puppy, he has turned out to be just an all-around great dog. Very social, not aggressive, energetic but controllable, and of course very affectionate. I'm a long time dog owner but he is my first Vizsla. I'm super happy about him. My question is should I even get him fixed?He seems great as he is and the only extra male behavior he seems to have is marking outside. I don't typically board my dogs or need doggy day care ( most here don't take intact dogs). Thanks for your input.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

If you have no real reason to neuter him, I would leave him intact. Some years ago, I neutered my then male at 3 1/2 years old. I was never going to breed him, and had 2 intact females in the house. It was to just cut down on the whining, when they were in heat.
FYI, neutered males still mark outside.
Some of my females even mark.


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

The general opinion here and in the wider Vizsla world is to not desex them. There's the recent Vizsla study in particular (google it) that studied the effects of neutering on V's (and Golden's) and found an increase in cancers and early death. The gonads produce hormones that are used in cellular metabolism throughout the body, not just fertility. The practice of neutering as a general rule is not based on fact.

I've had 3 intact boys, no problems at all. You will too.


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## tegee26 (Apr 25, 2018)

[email protected] said:


> Eli is 1 year old. I'm waiting until he is 18 months to get him neutered. After the obligatory rough patch as younger puppy, he has turned out to be just an all-around great dog. Very social, not aggressive, energetic but controllable, and of course very affectionate. I'm a long time dog owner but he is my first Vizsla. I'm super happy about him. My question is should I even get him fixed?He seems great as he is and the only extra male behavior he seems to have is marking outside. I don't typically board my dogs or need doggy day care ( most here don't take intact dogs). Thanks for your input.



Pretty much in a similar situation. Our V just turned two today and our Vet recommends neutering him this Fall during his annual checkup. I resisted earlier attempts at their recommendations to get him neutered last year. Our breeder, and several other V breeders that we know, strongly suggest 2-years of age at the earliest. And if you can wait until 3-yrs even better.

I know the conversation is going to take place in November at the Vet and I'm going to hold my ground for another year and may in fact leave him intact permanently. Don't know if this helps, but that's my current insight with our 2-yr old male V.


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

tegee26 said:


> Pretty much in a similar situation. Our V just turned two today and our Vet recommends neutering him this Fall during his annual checkup. I resisted earlier attempts at their recommendations to get him neutered last year. Our breeder, and several other V breeders that we know, strongly suggest 2-years of age at the earliest. And if you can wait until 3-yrs even better.
> 
> I know the conversation is going to take place in November at the Vet and I'm going to hold my ground for another year and may in fact leave him intact permanently. Don't know if this helps, but that's my current insight with our 2-yr old male V.


There are very few things I feel strongly about, but neutering is one of them. There's just no reason to do it, and the mounting scientific evidence is clearly against it. The kindest thing I can say about vets who continue to automatically recommend and then advocate for it is that they are not aware of current research and conclusions. A good vet doesn't "Push" unless there's clear scientific evidence to do so. For instance, if your dog is clinically obese, of you mention you give chocolate or macadamia nuts as treats, etc. Otherwise, frankly I'd question their judgement on the whole and find another vet.


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## tegee26 (Apr 25, 2018)

gingerling said:


> There are very few things I feel strongly about, but neutering is one of them. There's just no reason to do it, and the mounting scientific evidence is clearly against it. The kindest thing I can say about vets who continue to automatically recommend and then advocate for it is that they are not aware of current research and conclusions. A good vet doesn't "Push" unless there's clear scientific evidence to do so. For instance, if your dog is clinically obese, of you mention you give chocolate or macadamia nuts as treats, etc. Otherwise, frankly I'd question their judgement on the whole and find another vet.



I feel the same way and will stand firm on this one for at least another year and possibly not at all.

Our vet has been in our community for over 40-year and very reputable. In fact the current head veterinarian was president of our state board, for whatever that is worth??? To that end, I brought our new addition to our family, now an 18-week old female V, during her "puppy shots", etc and they already started talking spading. Quite frankly I was a bit shock that they would even begin this discussion and just reaffirmed my position on this entire topic.........

Another quick story, we recently got our second V from the same breeder as our 2-yr old male and we discussed this very topic. That's when he mentioned at least two years and better to wait 3-years. And then he quickly looked up at me and said "or never, I never spayed/neutered mine through all these years".

Anyway, I know a controversial topic to say the least, but as the years go on it seems even more important to educate prior to pulling the proverbial trigger on these.........FWIW.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I think some of the vets don't stay up to date on new research. They go by the risks of dogs left intact, but not the risks of desexed dogs.

If a male staying intact does not disrupt the household, there's no reason to have them neutered. If you have to neuter them. Try to wait until they are two, or three years old.
My personal opinion on females is slightly different. Keep in mind this is my personal opinion. If a female is never going to be bred. I like to spay mine between two, and four years.
I've waited as long as 6 years old(without breeding them), and wish I would have done it a couple of years sooner.


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## [email protected] (Dec 2, 2018)

Thanks-all of your responses are helpful. I'm going to continue to wait (he's only 1 now) but l I have no real reason to neuter him. He's calmed down a bit and not disruptive.


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## Gabica (Jan 20, 2018)

Agreed with above comments. 2 males in the household here, getting along well and don`t see any reasons neutering them so far. One is 3.5 years, the other one is 15 months old.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

Elvis is 4.5 years old, intact and has a super temperament, he marks as well


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

harrigab said:


> Elvis is 4.5 years old, intact and has a super temperament, he marks as well


It's what is between the ears, that makes a dog's temperament. You use what's between the legs, to pass on that temperament to puppies.

If everyone listen to these vets, and spayed neutered their dogs early. We would lose the breed.


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## tegee26 (Apr 25, 2018)

texasred said:


> It's what is between the ears, that makes a dog's temperament. You use what's between the legs, to pass on that temperament to puppies.
> 
> If everyone listen to these vets, and spayed neutered their dogs early. We would lose the breed.



WELL SAID. I never bought into "get him neutered so he comes down". I never understood that logic and still believe it fable or ole wives tales IMHO.


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

harrigab said:


> he marks as well


AJ does as well, a small price to pay...you know, we never really possess them fully, that privilege is only granted to them about us...


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I have a dark sense of humor.

I would love to introduce some of these vets, to my daughter's dog. As a shelter dog, she was spayed at a year old. SHE will mark over another female dogs scent, and males if its low enough. 
She plays great with other dog's, as long as they don't try to boss her.


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## Gabica (Jan 20, 2018)

Just had Miksa`s 15 month wellness exam and rabies shot today. Vet, who does research too, first time ever made a comment how good of a decision it was to keep both of the boys intact. yeah. (should have seen vet tech face though, lol)


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

My vet does not push spay/ neuter.
I think he has brought it up once.
The dog (not puppy) was being sedated for something else. He said " If I planned on spaying, he could do both at that time."
He might tell you his professional opinion on something. But doesn't try to push you to do something, you don't want done to your dog.

I was at the vet last week with Shine. I asked him a question on something, that was a little different than his normal treatment. I chatted with his vet tech for a little while, before Shine's paperwork was ready. The reason for the hold up. He was doing research on new studies to my question.
Then came back up to the front office, to go over it with me. Doc has to be in his 70s, but is open to new, and improved Veterinary Care.


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## Laxdog (Aug 15, 2017)

[email protected] said:


> Eli is 1 year old. I'm waiting until he is 18 months to get him neutered. After the obligatory rough patch as younger puppy, he has turned out to be just an all-around great dog. Very social, not aggressive, energetic but controllable, and of course very affectionate. I'm a long time dog owner but he is my first Vizsla. I'm super happy about him. My question is should I even get him fixed?He seems great as he is and the only extra male behavior he seems to have is marking outside. I don't typically board my dogs or need doggy day care ( most here don't take intact dogs). Thanks for your input.


I have a 2 year old male that we have yet to neuter. Like you we got advice from the breeder to wait as long as we could and were told about the vizsla study. Really we’ve come to the point where we don’t think we will unless there is a medical reason. 

Our experience has been about the same as yours but here’s some things to note that I’ve learned about having an intact dog:

1) Some perfectly friendly dogs (typically neutered males) will be dominant/bully/be aggressive towards your intact dog while being perfectly friendly to everyone else. The worst part of this is many owners are not aware their dog may act differently towards an intact male and are not vigilant or prepared. On a road trip we once stopped by a pretty empty dog park to let him run some and he got into two scuffles almost immediately- nothing serious. But I was yelled at by two different owners who were sitting far away on their phones telling me how I needed to leave with my vicious dog. One dog was trying to mount him repeatedly and the other was growling and chasing him/trying to run him over. 


I do frequent a large ‘dog park’ (it’s a dog park but around 100 acres and you never get that prison yard feel) and he plays and coexists with 98% of dogs there.

2) He developed a habit of passionately licking pee spots of other dogs. Apparently this is more common in intact dogs. Not disruptive but kinda gross when his nose is wet when he comes over to check in

3) Dogs have wet dreams- he’s had one I’m like 99% sure.


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

Laxdog said:


> I have a 2 year old male that we have yet to neuter. Like you we got advice from the breeder to wait as long as we could and were told about the vizsla study. Really we’ve come to the point where we don’t think we will unless there is a medical reason.
> 
> Our experience has been about the same as yours but here’s some things to note that I’ve learned about having an intact dog:
> 
> ...



Yup, just like us...


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