# Puppy Diet



## EchoAndMe (Jan 2, 2016)

We have a 15 week old Vizsla boy who is an absolute pleasure. He feeds on Bonnie puppy kibble which is used & recommended by the breeder. We wet that down, and include puppy milk for brekky. He will not eat it without the milk. Until now, he isn't enjoying breakfast at all. For lunch and dinner we mix his wet kibble with beef mince, our roast chicken - meat only. We are looking to introduce more to his diet now as all is going well. Looking for ideas and recommendations as feeling a bit overwhelmed with meals at the moment. We have looked into the BARF meals too. Is anyone familiar with these? Thanks


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

Gratz on the new puppy! 

I'm not familiar with the brand of food..or what puppy milk is... but it's a good idea that you've continued with the breeder's food, it's one less transition for him.

I think the general advice is to limit human food to about 10% so you're not unbalancing the ingredients and proportions of protein and fat, carbs, etc...of his kibble. Beware that the more you add, the more he's going to like it and you run the risk of him being a fussy eater...it sounds like that might be happening now if he won't eat his breakfast without puppy milk.


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## EchoAndMe (Jan 2, 2016)

Yep! We just did lunch and he was fine. So I'm thinking I might have to only add a sample of anything new.


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## Spy Car (Sep 3, 2014)

I had to look up Bonnie Puppy food (it is a Purina Australia brand) and found the limited information disconcerting.

Pet Food Reviews rates the adult version of Bonnie as One Star (lowest quality) and characterizes it as "a diabolical food." Seems like stern language, until one looks at the ingredient list. Really poor.

http://www.petfoodreviews.com.au/dry-dog-food/purina-bonnie/

The puppy formula, whose exact ingredient list doesn't seem to be available (even on the Purina Australia website, best I could see) is a low protein, very low fat, high carbohydrate food. When what you want is a high protein, high fat, low (or better no) carbohydrates food. I'd transition off this food.

If you are thinking about a raw diet (you mentioned BARF) I'd strongly recommend it. There are a number of raw feeders here on the forum. I'm convinced a balanced raw diet give Vs optimal nutrition. I would, however, do your research first. Particularly comparing BARF with whats called the "Prey Model" of raw feeding. I've run the analysis on BARF proportions, and the amount of bone (too high) doesn't provide the 1.2:1 proportions of calcium to phosphorus that is establish as optimal for a canine diet. PMR diets (at 10% soft edible bone, like raw chicken bone) hit the calcium to phosphorus ratios almost exactly.

Also BARF meals include vegetables, which are unnecessary in a canine diet. One of the benefits of a raw diet is getting carbohydrates out of the diet, and having the dogs metabolize fat as their primary fuel and protein as a secondary source. Dogs are phenomenally well-equipped to burn fats, which provide long and sustained energy (unlike carbohydrates).

Dogs on raw have white teeth, great coats, and are vital and lean.

Congratulations on your pup!

Bill


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## EchoAndMe (Jan 2, 2016)

Thanks, really interesting. We had only purchased the same food as the breeder because it's enough shock for the puppy to leave his litter let alone new food all in one hit too. So I'm looking now to branch out and introduce new foods before the kibble runs out. I'm really unsure on what bones to start him with. I'll keep reading and learning!


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## Spy Car (Sep 3, 2014)

EchoAndMe said:


> Thanks, really interesting. We had only purchased the same food as the breeder because it's enough shock for the puppy to leave his litter let alone new food all in one hit too. So I'm looking now to branch out and introduce new foods before the kibble runs out. I'm really unsure on what bones to start him with. I'll keep reading and learning!


Generally those feeding a PMR style raw diet start transitioning to bone-in pieces of raw chicken. Then, one proven as a well-tole tolerated protein, other items like beef, kangaroo, turkey, porl, lamb, and fish are worked in one at a time (joining "proven foods").

The basic outline of PRM is to feed 80% meat, 10% soft edible bone, and 10% organs (half of that being liver, the other half being kidney, sweetbreads (pancreas and thymus glands), spleen/melts, etc.

For PMR percentages heart meat is considered as a "muscle," rather than an organ in the dietary sence.

These 80-10-10 ratios ensure balanced nutrition and proper calcium/phosphorus ratios.

Most raw feeders either suppliment with fish oil or feed oily cold-water fish like Mckerel, Sardines, Anchovies, and Herring to provide Omega 3s that are deficient in grain-fed meat. Grass-fed lamb helps in that regard.

Of the raw diet seems daunting in the short run, I'd still urge you to get the pup on a higher quality food. The ratio of protein in the Bonnie food is low, and the amount of fat is very low. 

This is a cereal-based food. Very poor quality. Is the pup seems reluctant to eat it, I'd give kudos to her for having good sense. Were it me I'd start transitioning off this food as soon as possible (not waiting until the bag runs out), as the stress of eating a very sub-standard diet is far more stressful to a rapidly growing pup than switching over to a more nutrition rich food. 

Bill


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

> http://www.petfoodreviews.com.au/dry-dog-food/purina-bonnie/


While the website made it sound horrendous, I did read all the way to the bottom.
There are two comments from people that actually feed it. Maybe the website, and the owners that fed the food are both right. I personally like meat to be the first ingredient in any food I feed, but its hard to argue with people that have dogs living a good life to age 15- 18 years old.

1st comment 
I’m sorry but I’ve fed this to my dogs for many many years and they are all in good health with no medical problems or disease. I have Shelties and mine live to around 16-18 years old. How is this possible if I am feeding such rubbish as you would describe it.

2nd comment was a question

3rd comment
Disagree!
Feed this for over 20 years to my dogs and never a problem !!My girl died at 15 and i must say looked fantastic for her age !! When she was 10 people saying what a beautiful puppy !!



If your pup really dislikes the food, I would slowly change to something else. I've bought food in the past that looked really good on paper, but the dogs didn't like the taste. I threw it away, after trying to get them to come around to eating it.


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## Spy Car (Sep 3, 2014)

TexasRed said:


> > http://www.petfoodreviews.com.au/dry-dog-food/purina-bonnie/
> 
> 
> While the website made it sound horrendous, I did read all the way to the bottom.
> ...


The nutritional analysis of Bonnie Puppy food shows it is only 26% protein and 10% fat. These numbers show this is a sub-standard food. Puppies (especially) should be getting higher levels of protein and much higher levels of fat. Active breed like Vizsla's especially so. 

Bill


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## EchoAndMe (Jan 2, 2016)

So much to think about. I'm having tried getting my head around the raw diet. I have heard of several locals using the BARF range. I know it'll cost more but might be good to help get my head around how it works?


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## nymeria (Jan 18, 2016)

I feed my Vizsla girl Mia a raw diet. We use the prey model. She does get fruits and veggies sometimes as treats, because I'm trying to limit her calories. Her coat is gorgeous - silky, smooth, and no signs of the dry skin or allergies that some of her littermates are suffering from. And her muscle tone is fantastic. She is developing very well. Plus, chewing raw food, especially with bone keeps her busy for awhile and is both mentally and physically stimulating. It took her almost 45 minutes to eat a turkey neck yesterday. She's almost 5 months and usually she gets through those in about 30 minutes but she's injured now and so she's trying to eat while lying down, which takes longer than when she stands. I cut small pieces of boneless meat to put into plastic puzzle toys (dishwasher safe ones) and she loves that, too.

At first, it's a bit scary to feed this way. I was concerned with food-borne illnesses, the balance of the diet, and just the general yuck factor of dealing with so much raw meat. But it's really no different than dealing with the raw meat I feed myself. I just wipe down the counters and her food bowls/toys after she eats, and it's fine. I also wipe her face and paws with puppy wipes, although she makes a definite effort not to touch the meat with her paws. Totally unnecessary, but I feel better when she throws herself on me afterwards if I clean her up. And I have a piece of scrap linoleum that I feed her on. It's easy to clean that when she's finished. Or if it's warm, I may feed her outside. 

I am still a bit worried about balance, but I feed a wide variety of meats, with and without bone, including organ meats, and I think she is getting what she needs. The key is balance over time. And it took awhile to introduce all the things she needed. I had her for almost 2 months before I introduced organ meats, for example, as those can cause GI distress if introduced too quickly. I may consult a holistic vet soon, just to be sure I'm doing things right. They do need organ meat (liver, kidney) when on this diet. 

Another advantage of this diet is the poops are so much smaller and less stinky! My most hated chore is picking up poop, so this is a nice advantage. 

It's to the point now that feeding this way doesn't really cost me anything more in time than feeding kibble would. The cost is a bit more, but if you look around you can find some really good prices and it's manageable. I spend about $1.50/lb, on average. Chicken is less, but some other cuts (like beef) are more, and that's about what it averages out to. 

Tough decision, I totally understand why people don't or can't go raw, but I am happy with my decision to use this diet so far. If you decide to start, I'd be happy to share more about how I did things (although I'm new to this, too!). Mia's first meal at my house was a raw chicken thigh and she did great with it. At first, I don't think she knew it was food, so I had to hand feed her, but it only took one time for her to figure out that it was yummy!


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## EchoAndMe (Jan 2, 2016)

It's great to hear people's experiences, the success that they have had and even the not so good moments. All of it can help educate others on what to do & what to avoid. Thanks for sharing!


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