# Crate for time outs?



## Coya (Aug 20, 2011)

Our 8 week old Vizsla has been really nippy the past 2 days. We have tried the firm "NO", screeching "OW!", and ignoring, but none of those seem to work well. I have read that puppies, like children, respond to time outs. A spot recommended for a puppy time out is it's crate. We are heading back to work next week and the pup will be in her crate sometimes throughout the day. My question is will putting her in her crate for a time out make her resent the crate, or worse, us?

Thanks!


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## redrover (Mar 17, 2011)

Crate time outs can be very beneficial--for you and the pup! It's a fine line, but for me there's a difference between consequences and punishments, and in this case, the crate should be treated as a consequence.

The trick is that you must put the pup in the crate calmly and quietly--try not to be tense with anger/annoyance, as dogs can feed off your body language. Do not talk to the puppy. Just pick her up and head straight to the crate. Put her in, close the door, and leave her for a few minutes. I would leave the room. She'll probably cry, especially if she doesn't like the crate yet. Ignore. After a few minutes she'll likely calm down. I would use this as the last line of defense after you've tried the other things. On that note--do you couple the "ow!" to the ignoring her? I found that to be the best combo. You may have to stand up and walk away, even go into a different room and shut the door in her face. 

Nipping is very much normal puppy behavior, and it'll get a LOT better as she gets older. Young puppies do get overtired/overstimulated easily--almost every time I had to give Jasper a time out, within three minutes he was asleep!

How is the crate training going? Take this week that you have with your to slowly desensitize her to being left alone for a couple of hours at a time (I assume you'll be coming back a couple times a day to check on her?).


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## Coya (Aug 20, 2011)

redrover, thanks for your response. 

We do try to ignore her after yelling "Ow" but she usually will stop for 1/2 a second then proceed to bite our feet/ankles. We haven't tried walking into another room yet...we'll have to give that a shot. Though my boyfriend is a bit concerned that leaving her alone in a room for a minute or two will lead to worse trouble: biting on the furniture, rugs, or soiling. Any input?

We have noticed that when we do put her in the crate when she gets a little "out of control" she usually is passed out within 5 minutes. So it makes a lot of sense that you say she may be overtired/overstimulated.

So far the crate training is going well. When we do put her in her crate for rest times or when we have to tend to other things such as dishes, cleaning, etc (which is very hard to do with a new pup!) she seems to enjoy it. At times she will whine and whimper for 2-5 minutes but then calms down and usually falls asleep. She has been GREAT at night! We usually allow her to mellow out on her part of the sofa (Coya's couch) with us an hour or so before we head to bed. We take her out to potty then crate her and for the past 3 nights she's been sleeping completely through till around 6am. Luckily my work hours allow me to be home with her most mornings till around 11:00am and my boyfriend works till around 1:30-2:00, so she will rarely be left in the crate for more than 3 hours at a time. We also have a dog walker who lives a street over so times when we do need to be away from the house for long periods she has offered to come walk, feed, and play with the pup.


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## redrover (Mar 17, 2011)

Usually if I left the room, he'd follow! At that young age, especially, they want to go where you're going. So he'd try to follow me out of the room but get a door in his face. You can try starting with 5-10 seconds if you want. What I found is that he usually just stayed on the other side of the door whining (make sure you don't return while she's still whining!). 30-60 seconds of isolation is pretty decent, I found. Short enough that he didn't get into any trouble/didn't forget why he was alone, but long enough to make it count! Your dog may be different. If you have a baby gate anywhere, just stepping over it is enough. That way you can sort of keep her in your peripheral vision if you're worried.

2.5 to 3 hours might be a little long for her, especially at this age. Have you tried leaving her alone that long yet/building up to it? You can desensitize her to being left alone that long, but there might be a few crate accidents for a fews days to a week, depending on her bladder/bowel control. I think Jasper was home alone for 3 hours at a time (I'd have preferred 2, but I was a victim of bus schedules) when he was 9 weeks old, but for about a week I'd come home to some puddles in the crate, even though I pulled his water an hour before crating. Eventually he figured it out and now has the bladder control of a...er, animal with really awesome bladder control.

I meant to add this to the last post: if I gave Jasper the occasional "time out", I always let him out calmly after about 2-3 minutes. I wouldn't say anything to him, because that usually ramped him up again. Sometimes he was asleep. In that case, I just opened the door and let him slumber. If he was up, we'd go back to playing or cuddling or whatever we were doing earlier. In his entire nipping phase, I think I only did this 2 or 3 times. IMO, it's better to do this then get so angry you yell (vocally or with body language) at the puppy. Also, I did not specifically give him treats when I did this. There might be some random treats in there (I always hid them in his blanket so he'd like the crate), but I didn't give him one then--mostly because I didn't want him to get confused, but also because I never had one made up in advance! But Kongs have been a lifesaver for regular crate times!


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## Coya (Aug 20, 2011)

I tried walking away tonight and it seemed to work well. She went into attack mode and I gave her a firm "NO"...as the nipping continued I walked into the other room on the opposite side of the baby gate and turned around. She followed and after a minute started to whine, then stopped and turned away. I then went back to her and initiated play and praised her. Her good behavior lasted for a few minutes. I will def keep trying!

We left her in the crate for about an hour and 1/2 today. She did great! I put her in when she was sleepy, left, and when I came back she was still asleep! I let her be for 5 min after arriving home then opened the crate door. We are going to continue to leave for short periods of time over the next few days and hopefully she keeps up the good behavior. I feel as if I had a harder time leaving her than she did me!


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> But Kongs have been a lifesaver for regular crate times!


Kongs filled with frozen stuff. Get the kongs with little holes that Coya has to work at for a long time to get to. I added freeze dried liver to some, peanut butter in others, chicken cut up into bits in another and that is how my dogs (when they were pups) got feed.

We went through dozens of kongs when they were pups. Give to Coya when she is calm and not as a bribe to calm down. Then she will assoicate being calm with getting good things.

redbirddog


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Coya said:


> Our 8 week old Vizsla has been really nippy the past 2 days. We are heading back to work next week and the pup will be in her crate sometimes throughout the day. My question is will putting her in her crate for a time out make her resent the crate, or worse, us?
> 
> Thanks!


I think you are in over your head. If you plan to keep the dog in the crate for most of the day or even leave it alone unsupervised it's just not right. 
It doesn't matter what the dogs thinks about time outs it will never think like a human.

However, try this ebook: http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB464EBK
and this one: http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DTB273EBK


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## Coya (Aug 20, 2011)

redbirddog, 

Thanks for the tips. We gave her a kong with peanut butter the other day and she seemed to enjoy it. We also have one of the puzzle balls and put a few treats in there, though she doesn't get the concept quite yet.

datacan,

To my knowledge I never said Coya would be confined to the crate for "most of the day". She will be in the crate for no more than 3 hours at a time, and according to books, other forum posters, and myself that seems perfectly fine. I have actually heard it is good for pups and dogs to have their alone time. We would never have made the decision to get a dog if we didn't think we were capable of giving it enough of our time. I appreciate your concern but I think you misunderstood what I was asking. Thanks for the book recommendation, I will absolutely take a look.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Great, I'm glad I misunderstood. These dogs are quite demanding. We ended up slowing down our business in order to have time for this dog. 

Soft leather work gloves will save your hands from those sharp baby teeth. 

All the best.


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## sarahaf (Aug 17, 2009)

I don't think of that as punishment at all. Puppies get nippy when they're overtired and overstimulated, as you say, so it's kind of like putting a cranky child down for a nap. Fret not. That said, if the puppy HATES the crate, it would be good to work on conditioning different associations to it and gradually increasing the amount of time spent in the crate with the door closed. And ignoring worked well for us too during the nippy stage.


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