# Retrieving, Blasting, & Tail Position



## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

Pumpkin has had big fun on birds the past 2 weekends. This morning she went for 2 hrs of training with quail. I'm interested in hearing what y'all do to work on the following (if it's an issue or has been with any of your dogs).
1) Retrieving. Pumpkin is not a big retriever. She will fetch for a few minutes, but she moves on from that game rather quickly. Even dead birds don't provide too much of a thrill. How do you generate more interest & teach solid retrieving to hand? It was not a part of training today, but it was mentioned as an area to be working on routinely.
2)Blasting. Pumpkin gets so excited & has so much energy, that she is blasting through 1-2 birds a session. Not diving in on them, but running bird crazy through the field & blasting through one or 2 before she realizes. This morning my husband took her up to a family farm to burn some energy before training, but it doesn't seem to do any good. She's got a very good nose, but she is just a powder keg! How do we ( or can we safely) contain some of that energy without taking away joy and drive?
3)Tail position. Pumpkin has some very nice points, but she doesn't always get her tail out. We will "style" it for her while on point, but is there any other way to encourage Pumpkin to get that tail up consistently?
Thanks for reading & any suggestions! I know I tend to go on & on in my posts :


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

If they run over a bird or two I don't worry to much about it when they are young. I will just ignore it at the start if they are pointing most of the birds. When you bring her into the field are you paying attention to the wind? It will make a big difference or her being able to scent the birds. After she has had more exposure to birds I start yard work. Meaning formal training.
Some dogs have more retrieve drive than others. I keep retrieves to only two or three at a time with young dogs. You want to quit the game before she does. If you want to build more retrieve drive I use live pigeons. You can rubber band the wings together close to their body or pull flight feathers. When a dog bring me a retrieves I never grab it from them. Always praise first or you dog will start dropping the object 5 or 10 feet from you.
Don't let someone talk you into force fetching a young vizsla. I would never force fetch one before they are two or three years old have hunted a season or two.
I don't worry on styling so maybe someone else will have come pointers for you.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

For pretty points barrel training works - when PIKE goes on point it is so quick - what ever position he is in - that is what it is - I could care less about his tail or what paw is up - it is what it is - we hunt and trial now and then - on retrieving I like bumper drills - as said above stop if your pup looses interest - If PIKE is not bring to hand I turn my back to him - that always works - as 2 running thru birds always hunt down wind set only one bird far away - that gives the pup time to get into it's hunting mode - as to a V's drive that is why I have them- Good luck and great hunting - sounds like you have very small issues that you can correct with time and patience looks like you have a GREAT PUP!


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

kellygh,

TexasRed understands training much better than I do and I can't add much to her excellent advice. Two hours in training is a long session. 

Early on with Bailey, friends that had more experience training gave me some advice. "Make a big to do" about everything. "love them up." As one trainer told me. "Don't worry if people think you look foolish jumping with joy with your dog."

Just came back from finishing off my 20 bird card at Hastings Island. Bailey, at going on 4 years old (in June), is doing a workman's like job in the field. He knows his job as my team member. Is he "perfect." No, but that is fine with me now. I was maybe obsessed earlier that everything had to be perfect.

He loves the field. Loves it more than *anything*. That is because it is the place everything good happens. I think of my youngest daughter's love for softball. How we teach kids to love baseball or softball. The kids have many skills to learn. At 5, 6, 7, and 8 years old, it is all fun. I managed my daughter's young people's city softball team. I always wanted to figure out how to make the learning fun. The girls loved coming to practice. They did well and we won most of the games. Some of the other fathers managed teams much more tough. The kids didn't do as well in my experience.

The "pressure" can be increased slowly. Too much - too early will turn off these youngsters. A young dog with birds is like these young kids with baseballs. 

By 11, the girls that had stayed with it from 6 years on now could have "pressure" applied with good results. The girls accepted the pressure because they wanted to get better. They knew it would take more effort to reach the higher level.

A young Vizsla may look like an "adult dog" but until maturity around 4 or 5, they are still young and learning. Turn up the pressure slowly and give great praise on every accomplishment.

Hope you have a very good relationship with your trainer. A key to your dog and your success. Are you entering Pumpkin in Junior Hunt tests or Puppy and Derby Field Trial stakes? Great fun IMO.

More than anything. Have fun.

Post about yard work we did.

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2009/12/yard-training-with-bailey.html 

RBD


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Jesus RBD, glad you didn't have a lot to add!!!    Great post though mate. It makes so much sense and I am personally happy to read that I am without really knowing it, following this advice. Winter isn't far away, so hopefully we will introduce the dogs to some real stuff this season.


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

_*You want to quit the game before she does.*_

TexasRed: Great advice. I remember Maurice telling a group of us "always quit well before your dog does." In an article I read by Martha Greenlee, she discussed how pups are always learning. I'm not sure why my little fetch games didn't register as potential "field training," but I appreciate you giving me a good point well taken. When working on retrieving with pigeons, how do you correct a pup/dog who has a hard mouth? Just curious. No worries about force fetching. I have too many mixed feelings about it to even entertain the idea.

R E McCraith: You obviously have a lot of experience with hunting like TexasRed. Thanks for the response. We do pay attention to wind. Today's winds were variable/shifting in the foothills @ a steady 10+mph, so it was more tricky. Pumpkin is a lil more leggy than typical at 23 1/4" , and she can cover ground like no other! I think about her tail position, because our trainer(s) do. At the end of the day, my husband wants a good hunting partner; however, I would like to run her in some tests &/or stakes, and "style" on point can matter. Flagging, tail down etc. can all be a minus??? IDK 

RBD: You are my inspiration to enter a hunt test or stake! Just when I'm convinced I will make a jacka*# out of myself, I read one of your inspiring blog posts or post here that makes me think: "I can do it!" When I said training for 2 hrs., it wasn't 2 hrs. of formal training for P. 15 mins was spent letting P run with 2 other V's and a Brittany. Some of P's time on birds was with another V a few months younger than her, and, of course, some of the training was devoted to us humans who know less than Pumpkin : Pumpkin really does thrive in the field. She is so happy there, and that is what drives me to keep up training and asking questions. She really is special. I have to admit I love it when we get together with folks from the V Club of the Carolinas (many are breeders) and P shines the group of Vs who were bred to show & get field titles. We bought her as a companion 1st & a hunting "buddy" 2nd. Little did we know that our non-1st-pick-of-the-lot was going to have so much drive & love of the field & birds! BTW, she was fired over & around for the 1st real time today (not a cap gun of my son's ;D), and I'm not sure she even heard it! If she did, it was a complete nonevent. I have a good relationship with our main & 2ndary trainer by way of having respect for their methods. What I mean by that is that there is a lot of experience with pointing breeds, Vizslas in particular, and slow & positive is the bottom line.

Anyway, I'm rambling AGAIN. Thanks y'all for the feedback! Appreciate.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

*"Extreme Bird Dog"*
by Ray Cooper (first-class Vizsla handler) 

_1. A dog with the desire to go to where the birds are. If that happens to be
600 yards down a field edge or tree line, they do it because they would rather
find birds than hang around their handler.

2. A dog with the olfactory senses to scent birds while traveling at top speed
and not need to stick his nose in every bush on the course to find birds.

3. A dog that has the muscle and bone structure along with a cardiovascular
system capable of supporting the dog for extended distances and time to get the
job done.

4. A dog that has the brains to take training as well as learn from experience
where the most likely places birds will hang out during the day and use the wind
to his advantage.

5. A dog that has a bold, fast, attractive way of going that exhibits an
eagerness to do his job and get to the likely objectives during his alloted
time.

6. A dog that likes to go to the front and responds to his handler when called
upon but has enough independence to seek out likely haunts on his own without
direction._

_... Most other breeds however, particularly the Vizsla, the gene pool of dogs with all these traits is relatively small.

Without a contingent of people willing to stay the course, minority breeds are at risk of going into severe decline as premier pointing dogs. 

More than a few hunting breeds have seen this decline when a substantial number of fanciers within the breed began breeding for things like color, coat, hair length, show winning angulation or anything not related to performance. 

Fortunately the Vizsla breed has had enough breeders over the years who understood the benefits of these "extreme dogs" to perserve a noble breed as close as possible to what it came here as. Some breeds have not been so fortunate_.

Sounds like Pumpkin has potential. Have fun. When you make an A* out of yourself, just smile. Laugh at yourself. Everyone started somewhere. Dogs have their own minds. They are not machines. That is what makes it so fun! Frustrating at times and you will fail. Smile and keep on training. It's about the journey, not the destination. ;D

RBD


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

kellygh
If a dog is chewing on a bird you will notice their head is down and they are moving slower or they are stopped. The trick to less chewing is keep the pup moving. With the check cord and a lot of praise, keep her moving. 

If one keeps a harder mouth than I like (1 1/2 to 2 years old) I teach the hold command.
Hold means your not allowed to move your mouth and can only release whats in it if told to give. At two and a half years old one of my dogs decided to start crunching dove on retrieves. I didn't want to force fetch him because he didn't do it with any other game birds. I used a soft paint roller and we worked on hold. I placed the roller in his mouth and commanded HOLD. If he moved his mouth I would give him a tap under the chin and repeat HOLD. At first he only had to hold it for 30 seconds without mouth movement and we gradually worked til he would sit for for a minute or longer. I would do it two or three times with him. Then we would do a what I call a HAPPY Walk around to break the pressure. Its more of him getting to bounce around and feel good about himself before going back to work. We worked on Hold in the sit position first. Some pointer people don't like to teach their dogs sit and do it from the whoa position. Next they have to Hold while on heel, then be able to get up and down from a table while still holding the roller. Next we repeat the whole process with a bumper. Then at long last we do it with a dead bird.

This maybe something you never have to do and should not be anywhere in your near future. Keep her moving and more birds will likely fix your problem.


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