# eating the birds



## mikesf (Nov 5, 2012)

Maci is coming along good in all areas except she likes to eat the birds once she finds them down. I read that I shouldn't take the brids from her but just praise her and rub on her till she drops it. Well that isnt working as she chomps away as i pet and praise her. So I guess I have no other choice but to take the birds from her while praising her. Any other ideas? I will win in the end as she will become a quality bird dog in due time. Thanks in advance.
Mike


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Ken, TR, REM or RBD might be able to help with this one. I've been very lucky in as far as all three of mine have been soft mouthed and not interested in eating the birds. They are happy to just bring them to me and be told what great little hunters they are. 

However, while waiting for a better response from the above mentioned members, perhaps just go back to training with a dummy bird. A high value treat or reward given each time pup gives it up to your hand.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Mike lot of posts here and artcles out there on how to cure a hard mouth - PIKE likes to mouth the first bird shot - not to baddly - after that they are like butter in his mouth - has done that for 31/2 yrs and have no desire to correct it ( I might be lazy but it is just 1 of his many quirks ) there are bristle bumpers you can get that discourage mouthing - but read as much as you can and start a game plan - reppetion praise make it fun and this is an almost easy one correct - remember they are a prey driven breed!


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

I like books and read and learn new techniques or twists to a technique still after 30 years. I think the forum is good and offers good advice. I look to attend seminars of different trainers because a book can give information, but not feedback or discussion.

Not intending to be too snarky - Mike, what you are now experiencing is the difference between a book or video or forum and in person direction from an experienced trainer. Sometimes the real thing is required vs. a virtual experience. This sounds like one of those times.

Good luck
Ken


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Ken I agree & agree - that scares me - a lifetime over pointers - a reply from U - to train trainers or train wreck - everyone should put as much time into finding a V as they did finding a great trainer - V's are not a fast foot MUTT - neVer will get 1 at the drive thru - but I do like to start them at home ! this forum does give them the first shot - after that go to a PRO !


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## mikesf (Nov 5, 2012)

Thanks to all who apply to my questions about training Maci. Not sure what snarky means but I do appreciate your comments and opinions on training Vs. I know the benifits of using a PRO when one gets to a point that there is no improvement and I know there isnt a one answer that fits all dogs on a specific issue with any hunting dog. I must say though I was surprised to see Maci eat her first bird. She tried to swallow the bird almost whole but tossed it up and out which allowed me to grab the bird. I continue to read articles and some books on training gun dogs and work with Maci daily as she is my retirement project. Thanks again for all those who took time to reply. Happy New Year!
Mike


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

If this was the first bird she ever had in her mouth I would stress to go easy on her no matter what she does with it. She has to love birds to be a bird dog.
Dogs that have more bird experience I would move to a partially frozen bird. Her being so young I don't know if I would go that route. Quail really amp up a dog, so I might go with a fresh dead pigeon. Placed in the hall, not tossed for the retrive. If she is intent to eat that one I'd go to a pro.


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## zigzag (Oct 4, 2011)

mikeSF said:


> Thanks to all who apply to my questions about training Maci. Not sure what snarky means but I do appreciate your comments and opinions on training Vs. I know the benifits of using a PRO when one gets to a point that there is no improvement and I know there isnt a one answer that fits all dogs on a specific issue with any hunting dog. I must say though I was surprised to see Maci eat her first bird. She tried to swallow the bird almost whole but tossed it up and out which allowed me to grab the bird. I continue to read articles and some books on training gun dogs and work with Maci daily as she is my retirement project. Thanks again for all those who took time to reply. Happy New Year!
> Mike


Was she hungry... JK Trying to swallow the bird whole, may not be as bad as hard mouthed. I always thought hard mouthed was more of a chewing the bird to bits.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

Mike

There are many things you can do.
One "Old School" method is to build a "whoaing table". This is table about 2 feet tall 2feet wide, and 8 feet long. Basically a half sheet of plywood will build it. It is set on 6 legs, with the 2 in the middle being about an inch longer than the two at each end. This purposely makes the table unstable.
The theory is that the dog will be up off the ground, and on a somewhat unstable surface, thus forcing it to pay attention to you. The dogs head and mouth are about chest high. You are basically taking the dog out of it's comfort zone. The dog is on a short leash
With a dead bird in hand, you will give the bird to he dog, and take it back, over and over and over again. If the dog still gets hard mouth put a spiked harness on the bird.
If the dog refuses to give the bird back, apply firm pressure to the hinge of the jaw and work your fingers into it's molars with the flaps of it's gums. You are not trying to inflict pain here!!!!! It is pressure only that forces the dog to open it's mouth. NO HEAVY HANDS! Do not pinch or pry. just a firm even pressure with your thumb and fingers. 
Also, Do Not "Twitch" the dogs ears". It's a cruel and vicious practice.
Each time the bird is given back, whether freely, or forced, praise must follow. The dog must be released from the pressure of the exercise.
Once the exercises are complete on the table, move back to the ground.

One problems with V's and the Whoa Table is that they quickly become adept at balancing it,and will play on it, like a teeter totter. Don't let them play on it when not in use. I left mine out, and Gunnr can surf it now, no matter how unstable it is.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Great post gunnr. V's are too smart for their own good sometimes.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

Ozkar said:


> Great post gunnr. V's are too smart for their own good sometimes.



Yeah they defintiely can be to smart, and agile.
Gunnr uses it like a springboard platform to get up on top of the cord wood pile. Nothing like looking out the back window and 
there's your dog 7' up in the air trying to climb into a pine tree.


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## mikesf (Nov 5, 2012)

Thanks Gunner, I'll build that table this weekend.


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