# Brothers fighting



## cwaker (Sep 20, 2019)

We have two Vizslas, 3 years old, brothers, same litter. They have always been so close and play together very good. They hate being separated from each other. About 3 months ago they have had bouts of fighting each other and I mean FIGHTING!! They draw blood, injure each other and act as if they want to kill each other. The only way we got them separated was to eventually pull them apart, which was a huge struggle. We have to hold them to calm them down, tend to their wounds, then separate them in their own crates. We had them neutered after their first 2 fights hoping that would take care of the problem. They had a 3rd fight approx. a month after being neutered. Now we keep their shock collars on at the highest setting and will use that if and when they fight again. We love them both and do not want to get rid of one. Has anyone had this issue or have any suggestions? Is there any type of training we can send them to for this? HELP!!!


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

Why would you think neutering would fix this? It's a behavioral problem unrelated to their testicles, especially since there aren't any in heat females in the house.

This sounds serious, any dog (even Vizslas) can get into it, but when they draw blood it's dangerous and one or both (or you) could get seriously hurt. Keep them separated until you can get a good behaviorist in there to evaluate this and work with them.


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## cwaker (Sep 20, 2019)

gingerling said:


> Why would you think neutering would fix this? It's a behavioral problem unrelated to their testicles, especially since there aren't any in heat females in the house.
> 
> This sounds serious, any dog (even Vizslas) can get into it, but when they draw blood it's dangerous and one or both (or you) could get seriously hurt. Keep them separated until you can get a good behaviorist in there to evaluate this and work with them.


Our vet and breeder recommended they get neutered and said this may stop the problem because their testosterone levels will decrease. I guess we will have to find a behaviorist to work with our dogs because right now we are watching them as if they were toddlers. Never letting them alone unless one is in his crate. Two times I believe it had to be over their food dish, one time they were on the bed and just jumped off fighting like crazy.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Look up littermate syndrome. It's why a lot of breeders, will not place two puppies in the same home.

https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2015/12/28/littermate-syndrome.aspx

Using a ecollar while dogs are fighting, can/does escalate the fight. 
Put up all toys. 
No food, or treats when both dogs are out.
Either feed in separate crates, or feed in separate rooms. Put them up if you, or anyone in your family is eating.
They no longer need to be lounging on furniture ,or beds together. You might consider stopping it when it's just one of them. I'm not saying this will stop all the fighting. It just gives them less to fight over.


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## cwaker (Sep 20, 2019)

texasred said:


> Look up littermate syndrome. It's why a lot of breeders, will not place two puppies in the same home.
> 
> https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2015/12/28/littermate-syndrome.aspx
> 
> ...


I just read the article - wish I would have known about that before we took in two dogs. Well, I cannot imagine giving up either one now - but then again I don't want one getting hurt. I talked to a trainer today and he said to put the collar on high and if they give each other "the look" or their hair stands up when they are near each other, zap them. He said they will learn what is not tolerated. In your opinion, why is the collar not good? Is it because the shock will aggravate them more because they are too busy fighting with each other? We are feeding them in separate areas now and remove the dish as soon as they are done eating. They have always slept in separate crates. Can a dog behaviorist really get a good evaluation if both dogs are actually good, play together nicely and do not show signs of aggression? I know the 3 fights are aggression and not tolerated, but how will a behaviorist know how to evaluate or help if they do not see the fight? Thank you for your input and yours also Gingerling.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Yes, I would consult a behaviorist if you plan on keeping them both. If they're already in a fight, are near each other the e-collar can escalate it. Dogs can associate the e-collar correction, as coming from the other dog. This is even for ones that are e-collar trained. I don't know any trainer worth a grain of salt, that would tell you to turn the collar all the way up. Or even up very high. They can start associating you lighting them up with a collar, when one gets near the other. That's going to lead to a whole lot more stress between them, and more problems for you.
There are a few trainers, that can overlap e collar conditioning for aggressive behavioral problems. They are few and far between, and its not something you would do on your own. 
If your breeder had a lot of knowledge, they never would have sold you two puppies from the same litter. Professional trainers, and breeders, sometimes own littermates. But for the average person, it's not a good idea.


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## cwaker (Sep 20, 2019)

Thank you Texasred - makes a lot of sense. Now the task of finding a good dog behaviorist.


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