# Not hunting -- A recipe for disaster?



## haefen (Jan 5, 2011)

I'm very curious as to how many people here hut with their V. And how many people that don’t hunt with their Vs that have:
•	A happy dog without behavioral problems
•	A happy dog with behavioral problems
•	An unhappy dog

Some background: a few years ago I fell in love with the Vizsla as a breed. They have EVERYTHING I look for in a dog. They're very gentle and affectionate. They're velcro -- I LOVE velcro. They're high-energy outside: I like moving quickly. They're beautiful. And of course, the first thing that caught my eye: they like to sleep under the covers!

Alas, it was not to be since several people that engage in hunting told me that I can’t have a hunting dog without hunting. That even if I engage in hunt-like activities with my dog it can never really be satisfied unless they get to do what they were made for doing which is hunting birds. That not hunting with a bird-dog is akin to animal abuse.

What I’m looking to find out is whether or not this is actually true. Because for five or so years I’ve felt that this is the dog for me in spite of being told by knowledgeable people that you can’t have a hunting dog without hunting. And from reading this forum I’m suspecting that it isn’t true. Don’t give me wrong, I know that they need a lot of activity and exercise. I can provide those things, but I don’t think I could get into hunting. I’m too squeamish to actually shoot things. What I CAN provide:

•	A 3 mile run four times per week
•	Long daily walks or bike-rides
•	Swimming four times per week in the summer part of the year
•	Eight tonnes of affection and playing
•	Search and rescue training

Is this enough for the breed? Or is it doomed to fail? Or are all the busy-bodies that say you shouldn't get a bird-dogs without hunting birds completely in the right here? I really need some guidance.


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

Well, I think the lifestyle you have in mind would be great for a Vizsla! I have always had hunting dogs, and I am not a hunter (although my dear, departed Dad was). I just prefer hunting dogs because I think they are more balanced than some other types. 

My dog Willie was a stray who landed in a high-kill shelter. So the question I had to ask myself was "Which would he prefer? A life with me and no structured hunting? Or the needle?!" Besides, Willie hunts every day out in his fenced backyard, which is fairly large. He hunts because it's in his blood. So far, he has caught two squirrels, one rabbit, and one chipmunk. I think any dog would flourish when provided with the three basics -- exercise, affection, and food. But don't be surprised if he wants to chase after birds and critters. Don't reprimand him. It's in his blood. I always tell Willie what a good hunter he is! Willie is very happy and well-balanced. He is purely a pet. I think you've been given a bum steer. 

p.s. I am attaching a picture of Willie sunbathing in March. The blue area behind him is a partially frozen lake -- Whipple Lake (hence my screen name, mswhipple). Willie LOVES to sunbathe! I think it was only about 45 degrees that day.


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## crhawke (May 22, 2011)

Our Chloe is 3 years old. We don't hunt, and it isn't a problem at all. We live on an acreage and have a large fenced-in area for the dogs. I take her for brisk walks, she chases bubbles, balls, and runs. She must have exercise or is not a happy camper--but neither am I if I don't get a work out. During the winter I take her for walks a couple of times a day and we do a lot of playing inside. She loves games and toys.

The schedule you are planning would be fantastic for a Vizsla! Go ahead. They are a fantastic breed and great family member.


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

Very few dogs actually get to do the jobs they were bred to do. 
I will say that I believe a dog will be more fulfilled if it does get to use it's instincts and please it's owner at the same time, but that doesn't mean that a Rottweiler can't be happy if he isn't hearding sheep, or a Rodesian can't be happy unless he's hunting lions...

You sound like you will make your Vizsla a very happy dog.
If you were interested in letting your dog work with it's natural instincts, you could always do field dog training/trials. At the beginner level there is no shooting involved and the dogs get to play some of their part in a hunt. It is definitely not a necessity though.

We're a non-hunting, happy dog with no behavioural problems, family.
We just recently started field dog training, and she is the exact same dog she was before we started.
She absolutely loves it, but it hasn't changed anything about her temperament.

Go get your dog!


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## Kobi (Oct 26, 2010)

I think you will be fine. Your willingness to make it work is most important. It's not all about hunting.

A few things to keep in mind:

- you shouldn't run a lot with them under 18 months of age, for the health of their joints
- it may take some time for the dog to warm up to the idea of swimming, it has in my case and I know of another Vizsla that has been slow to take to the water (that said, I don't see why ANY Vizsla would not want to swim barring some horrible experience)
- mine will sleep under the covers for about 10 minutes... and then he has to move. Maybe I'm just too warm. He has never slept under the blanket I bought him when he was a puppy.


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

Lots of folks do not hunt their Vs. We will hunt Pumpkin (hopeful anyway), but that is not something that will be the sum total of her life. We went into the purchase with the main objective being a great family companion that fits well with an active lifestyle. Just be up front with the breeder &/or rescue about your objectives. Some pups come from a strong line of hunters. A reputable breeder should be able to assist you in finding a well matched pup or dog. It is recommended you wait until a V puppy is 13-18m before taking them on runs. Off leash running is fine, but you will want to protect the joints & growth plates while maturing to prevent damage. Train your dog well. Vs generally are very biddable, albiet soft, but you can not totally remove instincts; therefore, it's important you have a dog who will recall/handle well with distractions such as flapping prey to chase  Best wishes! It sounds like you will make a great V owner!


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## redrover (Mar 17, 2011)

I don't intend to hunt with Jasper, and I think we're doing fine! I got a Vizsla primarily because I wanted a good family dog that would mesh with an active, social lifestyle. We're going to do agility (he's in a puppy agility class right now) as a sort of "job" and maybe therapy work as he gets older and calmer. It gives him something to do, fulfills his desire to please, and helps tire him out. 

Golden retrievers are hunting dogs, and yet look at what good family pets they can make!


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## haefen (Jan 5, 2011)

Thank you all so much for responding 

*Mswhipple*: He’s too precious for words! 

*Mischa*: This is very true, very few dogs have real “jobs” today. And doing the training portion of it is an excellent idea! 

*Kobi*: Thank you for your tips! Under the blanket sleeping isn’t a prerequisite for me, but it is what first made me notice the vizsla – they’re very rare in my country so I’d never run into one before I saw that little factoid which made me want to know more. That was ~five years ago and I’ve been in love since then!

*Kellygh*: Thank you! I’ve been thinking that one option would be to look for dogs that have been sold as hunting dogs but that haven’t had a strong enough drive. We have very few breeders in my country, but the one that lives closest to me has been breeding vizslas for 30 years now. I’m going to contact her, but I’ve been a bit afraid to since I’ve been told that NO reputable breeder of hunting dogs will sell to a non-hunter.


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## Kobi (Oct 26, 2010)

haefen said:


> I’m going to contact her, but I’ve been a bit afraid to since I’ve been told that NO reputable breeder of hunting dogs will sell to a non-hunter.


If you find that is the case, they are just stuck up : I bought Kobi from a breeder who bred specifically for hunting.... Hunt'm Up Vizslas. He had no problem selling me a companion pet, and I think most of the litter actually went to people who wanted running dogs.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

I've been training and hunting my own Vizlsas since the mid 80's.
In my experience whomever has been telling you that you need to hunt them is wrong.
These dogs are wonderful pets and companions, and the actual act of hunting is so limited that the percentage of their life dedicated to this singular activity is extrememly small.

To temper my position though, I will say that I believe the "better" way to train one is to train it as if you were to hunt it. The reason being is that a well trained, completed, hunting Vizsla will do everything anyone would expect of a dog. Another reason is that training to hunt is rather formulaic and adds the structure and regularity, in a training program, that a dog responds to in a more predictable manner.


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## SandraDee (Oct 19, 2010)

In my lifetime I have had the privelege to have 5 Vizsla's. None of them have been used for anything other than companionship. They have all strictly been family dogs, and have never hunted a day in their lives. They have all been very happy, loving dogs, with no behavioural problems (unless you count digging through garbage when the opportunity presented itself a behavioural problem).

Vizsla's require attention because they want to be with their people. THey need exercise, they need to be challenged through training, and they need to be loved. They don't need to "hunt" in order to be a great dog and companionl


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## haefen (Jan 5, 2011)

This thread is making me so happy; I'm feeling much more confident that I can provide a good enough home for a V! I've done some more digging (the person who said it was no point for me to even talk to a breeder since no reputable breeder is sick of my questions by now ;D ) and I'm pretty sure I've found out the whole line of reasoning behind No Hunting =/= No Hunting Dog line of reasoning:

While I'm mostly interested in whether or not *I'm *able to provide a happy and satisfactory life for a Vizsla if I were lucky enough to get to buy one, I'm pretty sure that the people I've been talking about it are actually concerned with maintaining and improving the hunting capabilities of the hunting breeds -- rather than the potential happiness of the dog I'd get. Basically, the idea is that if people like me that want an active canine companion get to buy "pure" hunting dogs, and then eventually because of the laws of demand and supply there will be breeders that breed hunting dogs for companionship qualities rather than hunting ability. And then in a few years the breed will be useless as hunting dogs and I have single-handedly ruined the breed for all the hunters out there :. 

Now all I have to do is save up enough money to be able to afford a dog for a year. More difficult than you might think since in my country (Sweden) crating is *illegal *unless you're a vet treating a sick dog. Also illegal: leaving a dog on its own for more than a couple of hours. ==> I have to know for sure that I can afford doggy day care while I'm working. This is all highly motivating though!


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## Kobi (Oct 26, 2010)

Well the simple solution to the "problem" presented in the above post is to buy from a reputable breeder who breeds the dog to hunt, and then not breed the dog yourself (since you won't be training it to hunt). That way you can't be accused of single-handedly ruining the breed


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## haefen (Jan 5, 2011)

That's what I would think too! But to people with strong opinions on this subject -- and I've noticed it also applies to other working breeds like the border collie -- buying a hunting dog without hunting is like driving a getaway car from an armed robbery. Apparently you're guilty by association :. I can live with that though, now that I've realized it's not actually about the good of the individual dog but the good of the breed.


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

That's hogwash! Although they do smile allot when hunting. ;D


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## Big Rick (Apr 14, 2009)

We do not hunt. Neither of ours seems to suffer from not hunting. Dexter is, however, obsessed with a couple of squirrels that live in an oak tree in the back yard. He tries to catch one of them but has so far had no success. They get plenty of exercise running around in the back yard. Most of the time they look like the picture below. Couch potatoes.

Don't worry about it. They are active dogs but can be easily trained to behave. They're smart and beautiful.


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

So it should be clear that you don't HAVE to hunt with your Vizsla in order to have a happy dog. But I was just thinking... can you imagine what a huge advantage it would have been to own a skilled hunting dog back in the eighth century (when the Magyar tribes were migrating across Europe)? There were certainly no grocery stores back then, and owning a Vizsla could easily have meant the difference between having dinner in the pot or not! -- The difference between a healthy life or starvation.

I think Willie would be delighted if I came up with a recipe for chipmunk stew. HA!


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

haefen said:


> This thread is making me so happy; I'm feeling much more confident that I can provide a good enough home for a V! I've done some more digging (the person who said it was no point for me to even talk to a breeder since no reputable breeder is sick of my questions by now ;D ) and I'm pretty sure I've found out the whole line of reasoning behind No Hunting =/= No Hunting Dog line of reasoning:
> 
> While I'm mostly interested in whether or not *I'm *able to provide a happy and satisfactory life for a Vizsla if I were lucky enough to get to buy one, I'm pretty sure that the people I've been talking about it are actually concerned with maintaining and improving the hunting capabilities of the hunting breeds -- rather than the potential happiness of the dog I'd get. Basically, the idea is that if people like me that want an active canine companion get to buy "pure" hunting dogs, and then eventually because of the laws of demand and supply there will be breeders that breed hunting dogs for companionship qualities rather than hunting ability. And then in a few years the breed will be useless as hunting dogs and I have single-handedly ruined the breed for all the hunters out there :.
> 
> Now all I have to do is save up enough money to be able to afford a dog for a year. More difficult than you might think since in my country (Sweden) crating is *illegal *unless you're a vet treating a sick dog. Also illegal: leaving a dog on its own for more than a couple of hours. ==> I have to know for sure that I can afford doggy day care while I'm working. This is all highly motivating though!



haefen

All breeders, regardless of country of origin, follow the same basic philosophy when breeding. "Breed the best to the best,and hope for the best",and no breeder has a 100% success rate. If they did they could retire on the earnings from producing such "super dogs".
In any given litter there will be potential superstars, duffer, plodders and complete duds when it comes to hunting ability. It just happens, but for each of those types there is a person perfectly suited to that dog. Don't be dismayed by the snobbery, and find the breeder that is more interested in placing the right dog with the right person, instead of satisfying their own personal agenda and ego.


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

Very well said Gunnr! Couldn't agree more.


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

... And another one bites the dust, here in Michigan. Willie just caught and killed another chipmunk. I didn't witness the deed, I just found the body, right in his usual hunting area. Thank goodness he doesn't seem at all interested in eating them. He just chomps down on them and they are goners. So don't tell Willie that he doesn't get to hunt! Here is a picture of the mighty chipmunk hunter.


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