# Always Thirsty?



## Ruin (Nov 9, 2011)

Just when I thought Malcolm was an exemplar brag worthy pup... he turned 12 weeks a couple weeks ago. On top of many behavioral issues we're working on this is the only one that really concerns me.

When we got Malcolm and his sister Kaylee (Beagle) we kept water out for free access. It didn't take long for us to realize he was over hydrating. He always had a full round distended belly and was peeing every ten minutes. His pee was always clear so, from what Uncle Sam taught me, he was well hydrated. We took a few days and began rationing his water intake.

We learned that a sizable bowl in the morning, a couple very small drinks throughout the day and another large one at night worked great to hydrate him. The problem is that he doesn't realize he's hydrated and not thirsty.

He will climb in the tub and lick the drains, and, of course, drink from the toilet. Anywhere there's a puddle, he's lapping it up, Any bottle or cup, he's licking the condensation and trying to get it from you to drink from.

Another odd thing: we go out in public and always bring water and a collapsable bowl for them to share. Inevitable with the bowl around 3/4 full (based on the water we gave) he will pick up the bowl and carry it around - something we see at home with empties, but never with stuff in it.

My main concern is because our city uses reclaimed water *everywhere* it seems. He got into a big puddle one morning while running from me and had diarrhea all day - of course he hasn't learned his lesson.


Any ideas? Am I dealing with a health issue? An obstinent puppy? Both? I just had it drilled in me from my time serving that hydration (and sleep) is the key to all of life's health problems. So when I see my pup peeing clear but searching for water like he's a meth addict, I worry...


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

I would never ever limit his water intake. The only time you should slow down his drinking is right after exercise. Even then, you can make him drink slowly but DO NOT limit intake. Dogs will not drink more water than they need. It is possible he has a urinary tract infection if he is peeing every 10 minutes. How long can he hold his pee?


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

Ruin: Take your pup to the vet. If you are concerned or in doubt, it's always best to rule out a health issue before rationing water. Rationing should be avoided unless instructed by the vet. It sounds like something your pup may grow out of, but since there are some conditions that are symptomatic w/ excessive drinking, you will feel better ruling that out before seeking a change in water intake/habits. Good luck! For what its worth, Pumpkin has always drank more water than most of the dogs we have ever owned. She's messy & also thinks the toilet is another water bowl :


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## Ruin (Nov 9, 2011)

We put him to bed around 10 or 11pm and he doesn't get up until 8 or 9am with us. He holds it all through the night and we've not had a crate accident in weeks (almost a month).

The peeing every ten minutes was clearly over hydration because it was *lots* of clear pee coming out. Our girl has a UTI now and it's been more in spurts, lesser quantity, and sometimes no pee at all but a few drops.

Like I said, I only rationed his water because it was clear he was over drinking - over sized belly, slightly sluggish, frequent urination etc. With rationed water he behaves like normal, pees clear but less frequently.

My wife had an idea we're starting today to see if it keeps him out of stuff outside. We're doing a very small bowl of water, maybe half a cup, to wet his pallet every time we take him out and do the same when he comes back in. We're hoping he learns this so he won't be as tempted when outside since he just had water and is expecting more when he comes back in. It's also such a small amount we don't run the risk of him drinking too much. 


Kelly, we have an appointment tonight for his sister's UTI, I'll talk with the vet then.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

Ruin said:


> The peeing every ten minutes was clearly over hydration because it was *lots* of clear pee coming out. Our girl has a UTI now and it's been more in spurts, lesser quantity, and sometimes no pee at all but a few drops.
> 
> Like I said, I only rationed his water because it was clear he was over drinking - over sized belly, slightly sluggish, frequent urination etc. With rationed water he behaves like normal, pees clear but less frequently.


I seriously don't believe a puppy can "over" hydrate. Riley can easily down two 8-ounce bottles of water in one sitting and she pees (clear) every 10-15 minutes on walks. She's about 6 months and this is the norm for her. At Malcom's age, he will have times of crazy play and then times of naps/exhaustion. It's nothing unusual and I strongly doubt it has anything to do with drinking too much water. Is he puking up water? Riley has done that once and that was because we didn't slow down her drinking after a hard play session.

One thing that may be contributing to the extra water intake (other than a UTI) is competition over the water. Do the puppies share water out of the same bowl? They should each have their own bowl so they don't feel like they have to compete over it.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

By taking the water away, you may have created a situation where pup thinks it better drink while it is here, otherwise it may miss out too. 

I would never meter out water to a pup or dog. They know what they need. If they are drinking a lot, it may be they are like that in terms of metabolism. But, if you put the water out and find that pup is drinking perhaps too much, then as others have suggested, check in with the vet to make sure there are no underlying health issues causing it.

At my house, there are always two full buckets of water in the shade, a full bowl in the kitchen on the tiles and on hot days, I fill up the clam shell pool with water just in case they tip over the buckets and run out in the kitchen.


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## Ruin (Nov 9, 2011)

threefsh said:


> Is he puking up water? Riley has done that once and that was because we didn't slow down her drinking after a hard play session.
> 
> One thing that may be contributing to the extra water intake (other than a UTI) is competition over the water. Do the puppies share water out of the same bowl? They should each have their own bowl so they don't feel like they have to compete over it.


He was puking up water until we rationed him out.

The two eat at the same time from separate bowls in separate rooms. They know whose dish belongs to whom. That doesn't mean they don't go looking for scraps haha.

I'm off to the vet's in about 30 so we'll see what he says. I'm not bringing Mal since the appointment is for Kaylee only, but we already have an appointment on the 7th for final puppy shots and microchipping so if the vet wants to he can take a look at him then.

My main concern right now is training him to stay out of "foreign" water. He's not exhibiting signs of a UTI like Kaylee has been.


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

Other than what was already mentioned - have you tried to change his food? Copper will drink allot after eating something salty or spicy like the rib bones he devoured last night. So will I. ;D Could be some other health concerns - interested in seeing what the Vet has to say.


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

I agree with what others have said... it is never a good idea to limit your pup's water consumption. Not ever. Water is the elixir of life. It is essential for all of the vital organs to develop and function properly. What I WOULD do is make sure there is no medical reason for the overly thirsty behavior. Excess water consumption can be a sign of UTI, kidney problems, kidney failure, and even diabetes. Of course, none of these is very likely with a young pup!! I wouldn't try to solve this riddle by rationing Malcom's water. Maybe he's not getting enough food, and the "full belly" feeling that the water gives him makes him feel less hungry. Are you sure you're feeding him enough? I'm just clutching at straws here. The Vet should be able to help you with it.


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## Ruin (Nov 9, 2011)

Alright, to answer a few concerns...

Malcolm gets plenty of food. He gets the daily recommended amount based on his age and weight as prescribed by the food producer. If anything by the time treats are calculated in he might be a bit over fed, spoiled beast! 

His diet has been consistent since he was eight weeks old. Aside from the occasional variance in treats, which we haven't done in a few weeks, it's all the same.


What the vet (both of them, yes, I asked both) said:

I was fine rationing his water out as long as he's peeing clear and doesn't display symptoms of an UTI. They agreed the issue was behavioral and had a pretty ingenious solution. A self feeding water bottle... like gerbils, hamsters and such use.

This way I can regulate the amount of water he has access to as I have been, but he can feel like he has water available whenever he wants. This is also good because it keeps him from sucking up huge amounts of water at once and getting his belly full before his brain can process it.

They said the problem physically is that their kidneys are too young to keep up. So most people leave water out to keep them hydrated and pay for it with pee stains, piddle spots etc. They sade this is the safe way to do it, but doesn't mean it can't be taken from a different angle... which is what I have done.

Since I work from home and am home most of the day - if we leave, 95% of the time they come with us - I am able to really monitor his input and output.

The said to keep calm and carry on, try the bottle and see if him thinking he can get water whenever he wants changes the behavior of water scavenging.


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## Lincolns Parents (Aug 6, 2011)

Good for you to follow your Vet(s) advice. They are the trained professionals. ;D


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

I know plenty of trained professionals who get it wrong. Even our human medicos get it wrong. They are also mostly medically trained and not behaviourists. Not saying it's the case here, but to me restricting water in the first place when pup was younger has more than likely exacerbated the drinking behaviour. 

A pup is learning everything. How to do everything, how much to eat, how much to drink. Not allowing it to learn this when a little pup, maybe it needs to learn it now. Learn that when it drinks too fast, too much, it throws up or other uncomfortable consequences. Just saying that maybe there is another different angle to consider? 

Whatever it is, I can sense it is frustrating you and hope that you come to a good solution for the dog soon.


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## Lincolns Parents (Aug 6, 2011)

Guess I should have put the "In My Opinion" in my post.....silly me! :


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Please forgive me if I have offended you LP. It wasn't meant to :-[. It was only meant to highlight that even the professionals get it wrong sometimes and just to consider other possibilities. It was not directed as derogatory to you or your post. I also think stating that it is just an opinion is perhaps academic, being this is an internet forum. I agree with your comment that you should listen to your Vet. But also think we should not be close minded to the possibilities of them being wrong.


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## Ruin (Nov 9, 2011)

It's interesting the way these replies have gone, haha.

What I received: "don't limit the water!" "talk to your vet!" "do what the vets say"

What I said: "I understand, I'm taking a different approach."

What the vet said: "Keep it up, try this bottle to change his behavior. You're doing fine."

What was received: "Vets can be wrong!"


I think that ultimately we need to combine common sense and medical advise from professionals. Much like raising children or tuning cars everyone has their own approach. There are always opinions and beliefs held strong as far as what works and what doesn't.

At the end of the day as long as the pup is not being harmed, physically or mentally, and you have a professional backing your methods we can all agree to disagree.

I've managed to both be open to a different approach from the norm and follow my vet's advice simultaneously. Go figure.


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

So? He drinks water wheather he needs it or not? Is he house broken and only pees outside? There must be a reason for this. Maybe he is competing for water and it is his way of establishing his position in the pack. ???


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## Ruin (Nov 9, 2011)

"No" answers a lot.

As I've said, he and his sister eat and drink separately. There's no competition.
The water scavenging takes place only outside. I was looking for ways to help his behavior and keep him from getting into water he shouldn't be drinking - like puddles.
He is always hydrated, I'm certain of that.
He is not house broken, he just turned 15 weeks. He's doing well, but it is incomplete.

So far the little sips of water when we go out and come back in have helped. Water while out and about coming from us has helped too. People at the water park thinking they're giving into his needs when I'm not able to stop them in time has caused regressions. The same with ope/public water bowls around town.

It's been an odd process, but we're getting there. Finally have a chance to get the water bottle tomorrow to try with his crate.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

I am still going to strongly disagree. I've read the whole thread a couple of times to make sure that I hadn't missed something. Please do not be offended by me disagreeing, however I really believe you are barking up the wrong tree. Pup is 15 weeks old!!  He needs to be learning about water.

What is the problem with him drinking from a puddle? They soon work out what to drink and what not to drink if you let them. Mine drink out of puddles all the time. Sometimes they drink out of stinky marshy water too. They seem to be surviving OK. 

Regardless of what has been said, I think the way you are metering out water is a sure way to make the dog water possessive and water fixated when out walking and at other times. I think you are creating a rod for your own back. 

A dog will normally drink what it needs. Just because we think it is too much, may not mean it is for that individual dogs metabolism.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

My only problem is you vet diagnosed him without ever seeing the pup and did not test to rule out any underlying health problems.


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

OK. Understanding the situation is not so straight forward. Like Ozkar, I had to go back and read a couple times also. With your last answer stating it only happens outside and he is not housebroken it is more clear. 1st - keep working on the crate training and make sure all areas are urine and smell free. Most Vs are house trained within the first couple weeks if done properly. 2nd - water outside is easy - don't let him drink it! You can let him approach a puddle and then jump in it to splash his face. That would certainly deter him. However, it's not a good idea if you eventually want him to swim. It also sounds like the pup is not on a leash and supervision is lacking.

I'm not sure where you live but, when we take Copper out and it's warm we always have water for him. He has never been allowed to drink from the ground. He is allowed to drink from a clean pond, lake or river but only at my discretion. At his age he should be fine holding his fluids for at least 3-4 hours.


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