# Inbreeding - should I view?



## Sam111 (Jul 6, 2011)

Hi, anybody can advise? I am about to view a litter of Vizsla 's but on research have found this info in the pedigrees of the parents.
In sires pedigree.
Male Vizsla present four times in 4 generation pedigree
Male Vizsla present three times in 4 generation pedigree
Female Vizsla present three times in 4 generation pedigree
Female Vizsla present twice in 4 generation pedigree
Mothers:
Female Vizsla present twice in 4 generation pedigree
Male Vizsla present twice in 4 generation pedigree

Is this anything to be concerned about? 
Thanks for reading and advice in advance. :


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://www.vizslapedigrees.com/pedigree.php?regnumber=SR51369806

Sam111,

Very hard to read it the way you wrote it. 

Can you find the sire and bitch on vizslapedigrees?

The above is my male Bailey.

Rod a.k.a. redbirddog


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

Agree. Kind of hard to understand exactly what your saying; however, it does sound concerning based on the info you have provided. Have the the sire & bitch been DNA'd? If so, you can research the DNA #s to try and find inbreeding coefficients. You are wise to be asking & looking into. Good Luck.


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## jakersmomma (Jan 3, 2010)

redbirddog said:


> http://www.vizslapedigrees.com/pedigree.php?regnumber=SR51369806
> 
> Sam111,
> 
> ...


redbirddog,

I was browsing Bailey's pedigree and he is related to my Jake! I'm not sure how to read that online pedigree very well but I do recognize Paradox Remarqueable Jake because I thought it was neat that my Vizsla is also Jake. Jake's dad was born to Comynara Celtic Red Oak and Lee's Jagged Edge. His mother has Rebel Rouser blood. Such a small world!


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## LindandTess (Aug 10, 2011)

I find this very interesting. I am new to this site. My Vizsla Tessa just had a litter 4 weeks ago. I am not a breeder but I do have pedigrees for both sire and her. I notice on Vizslapedigree.com that there are so many dogs from the Rebel Rouser bloodline. My dog is also. How can I find more information on this bloodline? I also have read from so many people selling their Vizsla pups that this bloodline is some sort of championship line. Does anybody have more info on this? Thank you


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

This is a complex topic. This is why you buy from a reputable/knowledgeable breeder & educate yourself like you are . 15.61% is not bad. I have seen coefficients +22% & not necessarily a problem. At face value, that is a high number. In some litters, too high; however, in cases where there are champion lines, 23% may not be too alarming. Reputable breeders use line breeding (inbreeding) to produce the dominant/desireable traits. This is also done to bring out the undesirable, recessive traits to try & eliminate/reduce those genes. You can breed 2 unrelated, great looking, superb hunting Vs, but they would, maybe, only produce a great looking phenotype. Since a genotype is not shared, you are doing nothing to pass along the dominant/desireable traits outside of luck. Some dogs may actually have a larger influence from a sire/bitch generations back rather than up front; therefore, I think it is important to not be too quick to judge. What may appear to be careless inbreeding through higher coefficients can actually be more desireable than what appears as no to low inbreeding. IMO, there is a difference between inbreeding and linebreeding. While technically all pure breeding is inbreeding, line breeders are very careful with their "inbreeding" and do so for the integrity of the breed. There are also "breeders" who do so backyard, willy-nilly between brother, sister, offspring, or 1/2 siblings which represents the worst & typical connotation of the term inbreeding. You can also have a backyard breeder who chooses to breed 2 unrelated dogs with papers, because they think their dog is most awesome or they could use a little extra money. This type of unrelated, "unthinking" breeding beyond 2 registered dogs is just as bad, IMO. It doesn't surprise me to see folks on here have dogs related to one another in some shape or form, because they chose to buy from champion lines &/or reputable breeders. Once that is done, it is not surprising to see those interested in the well-being of a breed & their dog gather on a site. 

P.S. It is not uncommon to be unable to find one of the parents & only some relatives. I am unable to pop-up our V's mom. It might be, because Pumpkin was out of her 1st litter. Yes, we willingly chose to take a pup from the 1st litter which some prefer not to do.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2011/03/why-did-i-bred-our-vizsla.html

The whole "science" of breeding is very interesting and there are people in our Vizsla community that really get the concept. 

Kellygr, you explain it very well in your post. Before breeding Bailey this spring, the owner of the dam and I sat down with the pedigrees with a few folks that really get it, and we looked at the different lines. These folks knew the dogs going back four generations. 

The Vizsla started with a very small group of dogs back in the late 40's and the number of champions to breed with would have been small through the 50's, 60's and 70's. Now the pool has grown over the last 20 years or so.

We want to keep the breed "strong" and Sam111 your desire to find a quality - healthy dog is what all *hobby breeders * hope for in their puppy buyers.

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/08/promoting-vizsla-as-high-class-bird-dog.html

Good luck in your search.

Rod a.k.a redbirddog


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## Sam111 (Jul 6, 2011)

Thank you all for taking time to reply, its nice to get advice from people with knowledge, as I have no experience of this. Its also great to read this forum to find out real peoples personal experience.
Regarding this litter my heart is telling me no, somehow I am suspicious of this litter, especially as I was told there was "no inbreeding what so ever" by the breeder. Also only one or two of the dogs in the pedigree are from registered kennels, so I suspect the line/in breeding has been done with no proper knowledge. The search goes on!!!! I have been looking for over 6 months now, have another litter to view this weekend and so far my research has not set off any alarm bells. :


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

I think its always wise to trust your gut! When you are talking about your friend for life, you want to feel REALLY good about it--for your & the pups sake. That being said, don't be afraid to ask any breeder to explain pedigree. Some may reply "no" to inbreeding, because they may assume you mean in the worst way ie: 1/2 siblings etc. It's good to ask, because the most knowledgeable also know the limits of linebreeding/fine line of getting too close to inbreeding. It is a fascinating & important topic. I have a lot to learn. Good luck on your search. I didn't look to see where you are from, but many people here may have breeder recommendations; in addition, check in with your most local Vizsla club.


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