# I really need help! Please!



## Element (Nov 7, 2014)

I have been in tears all night. I haven't been on here for long and for those that I haven't chatted with - we rescued a dog between 2-5 years old (vet said 4-5 due to tartar / shelter said 1-2) ??? She was listed as a Lab/Retriever, neither of us had ever heard of Vizsla, not a pure bred, but she's def vizsla. It's been since end of September and we wouldn't have made it that long without this site - and we have come to love her very much. That's what brings such pain - we have tried so hard to keep her busy - we live off of a main road and have a small yard, so she can't free run. But we go for walks, have a 30' training lead and neighbor dogs she plays with - all her food is given in a Kong like dispenser (we got a tip from a friend of a friend, that using there nose is also exercise). 
We are home almost all the time and if gone for long time, have a sitter with her. She lays on the couch with us in evening. In other words, for the last few months, she has had us all - all the time. We cannot use up her energy - not even close. We are nothing but claw and teeth marks on our arms, and haven't enjoyed a morning coffee or peaceful meal in awhile now.
But what we can't get past is her jealousy with the grand kids and her defiance. She will get mad cause one of the kids are here and squat and pee - on the carpet, couch and even our bed. If she's not the center of attention - she's a **** head, barking, peeing, biting. We keep trying, reading and if she was a puppy, I'd have more hope of getting a hold on all this.
We spent all day again, catering to her needs, tiring her out, working on training her to fetch and return, drop. Took her outside round 5 to catch the last of daylight and let her play with the neighbor dogs - she had a riot. We came in and she went nuts barking at our 17 year old grandson (who had just been outside with us and the dogs), almost nipped him, then turned around and peed on the floor - what the ****. 
I'm tapped out - we lost 2 huskies this year about 6 months apart, both were around 12, also rescues. I've rescued several dogs over the years, and have dealt with behaviors before. And I feel like crap even thinking about giving up on Element - I don't know what to do. We haven't been able to find anyone in the area knowledgeable to help. I'm going to try and call a place I heard about that does field training in Freeland - we are not hunters, nor are we interested in become one. But thought maybe they could refer us to someone around here that may be able to help with behaviors. 
I guess here's where the help comes in. We rescued her from being put down, but are we doing her harm by not being a hunting family??? Is there such a thing as a disorder where she is too anxious and high strung (should we be looking for a vet that knows more about vizslas) ??? From reading on here it sure sounds like it's pretty normal and how terrible a person am I to not want to give this loving girl my 24/7 ? 
If we do make the decision that we aren't the best fit for her - how do we find a new home?? I hate admitting defeat - and I am feeling very defeated right now.
Thanks for listening


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

I think anyone would be in over their head with the behaviors you're describing. Dealing with a crazy, biting puppy is hard and has reduced a number of members to tears, but dealing with that in a fully grown dog is a whole other level of insanity! On top of that, we're weird enough to seek that out while you didn't really know what you were getting into, so don't be so hard on yourself for feeling this way. Don't think of it as failure, defeat, or giving up on the dog. Instead think in terms of maximizing the best interests of everyone involved here. If finding a new home ends up being the right route there is no failure in that. You saved her, loved her, and will continue to love her by doing the best for her. It's also not selfish to consider your own desires--it's realistic and your happiness matter too.

That said, it sounds like you're prepared to try out some other options first. I'd suggest contacting the Vizsla Club of Michigan. Jenn Miller looks like a good bet as she coordinates the rescue stuff. Undoubtedly she'll have dealt with a lot of the issues you're experiencing and may know some trainers, etc. 

You don't have to be a hunter to let your dog use those instincts. The basics of hunting are teamwork, physical exercise, and mental exercise. Look into nosework classes. Here is a list of classes in MI http://www.k9nosework.com/group-classes/certified-nose-work-instructors-cnwi. You might need to work one on one with a trainer to iron out these behavioral problems before putting Element in a distracting group environment, but you can start figuring out the principals of nosework and use it as an outlet for her energy. If you're interested in competing down the road, you're in a great area for it. The UKC is based out of Kalamazoo so there are tons of tests all around the state. A game I like to play with Scout, is to put her in a sit stay out of view, then hide a toy somewhere in a room, tell her to find it, and within a minute she brings it back. I started out by hiding lots of strong smelling treats, so in one session of find it she'd get rewarded a lot and would also figure out where to look. It doesn't take long for them to figure out the rules, but you do need to teach them. Get creative and figure out way to link behaviors you're trying to teach within the game you're playing. I'll link to some videos at the end for more ideas.

There's a dog training method called Nothing in Life is Free. Google that. Basically Element needs to earn every single thing she gets--dinner, attention, going outside, etc. It's like bootcamp and will help enforce your authority and your rules. When your grandkids are over, I'd crate her for now. She hasn't earned your trust to be around them and then if she wants to protest pee, she messed up her own space. 

Set some goals for yourself regarding new skills to teach and how often you'll train. If you start to work on general obedience, that'll improve your bond and indirectly help with some of these other behaviors. There's a lot to tackle here and it would best be done with the help of a professional in person, but hopefully some of the suggestions here will start you in a good direction. Stay positive! We've all had those hair-pulling moments. 

Links for nosework, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFnWnejG_IU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaNZhDYzeRM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJxG--4t3SU (She has a lot of great videos)
Somewhat dull and basic, but otherwise good primer for dog training theory and clicker training which I'd really encourage you try. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyn2g5d8468&list=UUl_p13guW5dN0vBui0nq6ow


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## Element (Nov 7, 2014)

Thank you so much einspanner, I needed more kleenex. I know the love members have for these guys and I can see why. You don't know how much of a relief it is to have validation I'm not a female pooch - lol. I haven't had time to take in the info, but I definitely will. Bless you for your encouragement and kind words. I will give updates. :'(


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## emilycn (Jul 30, 2013)

Solid advice, as always, eins. But the peeing thing is still a bit confusing---the OP may want to read a bit of dog psychology/behavior/motivation as well. I once caught Lua peeing on my bed (right below my pillow, basically) when she was about 6 or 7 months I think. I was completely flabbergasted, so I did some googling---Turns out the peeing where the pack leader's smell is the strongest (like on my pillow) has something to do with making them feel safe, if I'm remembering correctly.


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

That's really interesting, Emily. My sister's dog started marking on my bed shortly after I got Scout even though he liked her. There were other issues there too. I guess I've always seen it as a challenge, but there could definitely be other reasons and it's helpful to reframe the way we understand dog behavior, especially if it puts a frustrating behavior in a more positive light.


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## MeandMy3 (Feb 27, 2013)

I think Einspanner has given you some great advice. Sometimes a mentally tired dog is better than a physically tired dog. 

We were extremely lucky - our first big dog was a lab - one of the best labs I've ever met (not biased at all - ha!). She has trained our other dogs for us. However, with our second lab, a red lab, I felt like giving her back every day until she turned 17 months old. Then one day her switch flipped and she was MY dog. All MINE. Our labs have trained our vizsla for us so again - we are lucky. 

One thing to add - even though it sounds like the peeing is a marking/jealousy/behavioral issue, please get her checked for a UTI. If that is what it is, you will be surprised at the difference once she will be healed.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Sounds like she feels slighted when you have company over, or it may just make her uncomfortable. Either way, it can be frustrating until you get it figured out. 
As far as gundog training, she may never be a gundog, but gundog training would help you get her off leash. She would then be able to burn off the extra energy. 
As einspanner posted above, the vizsla club in your area should be a valuable resource. They will also give you names to trainers in your area that have worked with vizslas in the past. Gundog trainer, does not always mean they are good at working with this breed. So please make sure they have trained, and had good a outcome with this breed before using them.


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## dextersmom (Oct 29, 2013)

You might want to PM KB87 - she works a lot with different Vizsla organizations in Ohio/Michigan so she might have a lead on a trainer for you.

I second the NILF (Nothing in Life is Free) method!


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## Element (Nov 7, 2014)

Element Update,
I wanted to thank everyone again for taking the time to comment. I'm having a frustrating day again - seems like the more we do, the worse she acts. I've read some on the NILF and so I believe maybe we are screwing up - again. Anyway wanted to leave a quick note - my sister had a stroke around the same time we adopted Element - things continue to get worse with my sister, so my patience level is bad right now. My husband has been the one really working with her and he's making great progress with her walking and sit / stay, even with treats on ground and she stays for the command. He's very proud of the work they do, but then he tries to show me and she will completely ignore him. She will stand and just bark at us if she's not center of attention all the time. She's closed up in her kennel right now cause after 2 long wonderful, training, playing, running sessions, she just won't accept cuddles and love - still wants to fight, bite and bark.
We did contact Vizsla Club of Michigan and Jen suggested a place called Happy Tails and we are setting up an evaluation meeting. Please pray we work with someone very caring, that can help us make the best decision for all involved. 
Thanks


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

I'm so sorry to hear about your sister! I'll keep you all in my prayers.


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## redd (May 25, 2014)

I'm also sorry to hear about your sister. I can't imagine the stress of having a sick family member and a pushy adult Vizsla at home!!

I wouldn't at all feel bad about crating Element if she's had lots of exercise and still can't calm down. I am definitely not a Vizsla expert.... we have an 8 month old and are still learning. But what I have noticed is they are very much like wild toddlers as pups. They have very little ability to self-soothe or calm themselves down. They throw temper tantrums. We still have to crate Redd at times for him to calm down, which _forces_ him to calm down. They are also quite demanding and pushy. Some more than others! So perhaps Element never learned to calm herself and was not taught that she can't have everything she wants. She's like a tyrant 4 year old that got everything she wanted as a toddler and wasn't taught any manners. Have you ever met one of those? Oh boy. Enter Supernanny! 

So she has to be taught to calm herself, be respectful, and not demanding. She CAN be taught!! I am hoping a trainer can point you in the right direction. I'm sure though that the stress of your sister's illness has put you at a standstill.....and that's OK and expected. Don't feel guilty about it. Just let your husband keep working with her and in-the-crate she goes if she is acting crazy.


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## miru (Sep 9, 2014)

Hi there,

I will expand on Redd's comparison with toddlers.
i work with people having attachment troubles,and i was touched by Element's behaviour that resembles a lot what we can see in children and adults with insecure attachments (b0nding).She seems to need to give you permanent signals of distress and not to let you forgive about her for a second.
I also think she can settle down with lots of resilience from you and your husband.You are doing a great job being patient and reassuring her in her crate should also help.
Very sorry for your sister!Hope she gets better soon!

Lots of good wishes 

Mir &Leo


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## Element (Nov 7, 2014)

And again I am brought to tears. The kindness and support from you all when you don't even know us or our dog is overwhelming. You are all very special people and these dogs can't even begin to understand how blessed they are.


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## Emilygreasley (Dec 1, 2014)

Hello,

I just wanted to give you a bit of solidarity and let you know that you're not alone!! We rescued our Vizsla cross lab cross something about a month ago now. He is much younger (about 5 months) but I am increasingly regularly reduced to tears when all he wants to do is bite me and bark at me. I was trying to do some baking in the kitchen last night (not giving him any attention) and he was running around, barking at me, commando crawling along the dining chairs that were tucked in under the table and generally being a pain in the backside. It does seem to be an inability to self soothe, he can't stop and sit down unless he's by himself or we're both sat down doing nothing and even then, 9 times out of 10 he'll want to play - sometimes we're lucky and 5 mins shut away on his own is enough for him to come back in with us and fall asleep on the sofa. Majority of the time, we're not so lucky and he'll insist on barking and chewing and demanding that we pay him some attention.
We take him on at least two walks a day, longer ones at weekends and he gets playtime in the garden at lunch times and in the evenings as well as playtime in the house and at least 15 minutes working on his training - the only thing that wears him out is his weekly puppy class.
This is our first dog as a couple and as much as we love him it's not really living up to our expectations (yet!!)
I hope you get the support you need from trainers in your area and I hope that your sister gets well soon 

Vizsla owner from across the pond x


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## dextersmom (Oct 29, 2013)

Redd said:


> But what I have noticed is they are very much like wild toddlers as pups. They have very little ability to self-soothe or calm themselves down. They throw temper tantrums. We still have to crate Redd at times for him to calm down, which _forces_ him to calm down.


Dexter *still* has a problem settling down when he's tired. Usually after a good run, we have to do what is known at our house as the "Vizsla sammich" where my husband literally kind of lays/sits on him on the couch. He fights it at first and is not happy about it, but within about 60 seconds, he's fast asleep. He just can't bring himself to be still long enough to realize he's sleepy. Crating is a good alternative but he doesn't love his crate so we only put him in there when he's relaxed (otherwise he'd work himself into a frenzy). I don't know Element's history so she might not be comfortable with that much physical contact though. Dexter is a snuggle bug.

We also bring out the chews when they are over tired (like bully sticks, antlers, etc.). We hold one end of the chew and make them lay down on the couch. They aren't allowed to stand, play, etc. with the chew. When we see them getting drowsy, the chew gets put away and they are settled enough to nap. You can also do this with hand feeding.

I know how annoying it is when they're tired out (and you're tired too from exercising them for the past couple of hours!) and won't give in. Sometimes it takes just trying some different strategies to see what works best to settle them. So many times they are just as crazy when they're overtired as when they need to run!


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## MeandMy3 (Feb 27, 2013)

I am so sorry to hear about your sister. Prayers to her and your entire family for healing and patience. 

Keep up the good work with your dog. Do NOT feel bad about crating her. I firmly believe that they need naps just as much as a toddler would.


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