# Switched to Beef



## Dawz84 (Apr 16, 2014)

Been feeding raw to my 16 week pup, up to this point its been predominately Chicken. Also gave him a mince mix of chicken and lamb and hes been fine on it. Also tried him on tripe but struggling with the smell. He even started to smell like it so hes only been on tripe for a day. 

The last couple of days I thought i'd try him on Beef. Yesterday he wolfed it down but had the runs. I figure rich red meat, perhaps give him time to adjust but were now on day two with the same results. Should I keep on it or switch back to chicken? Or perhaps mix 50/50 chicken and beef?


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## MeandMy3 (Feb 27, 2013)

I don't feed a raw diet, mostly because I don't like touching raw meat with or without gloves, but I would stick with what works for your pup. If beef isn't working after a few tries, I would go back to what works. 

There are many others on here that feed raw and will be able to give you better advice. Good luck!


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

First off, you will get used to tripe to the point that it no longer initiates your gag reflex, but a raw meaty bone to chew on after will act like a tooth brush and leave a sweeter smell on his breath. Pureed parsley is super for freshening up too. Just mix it right in with the mince.

Is there bone in the mixes? If not, definitely add in some edible sources. Poultry is the easiest to digest, especially for a younger dog. You want to aim for 10% bone in the diet and adjust based on your dog's individual needs, but when adding a new protein, especially a rich one like beef or offal, bump up the bone content in that meal to balance everything out. I'd start with more like 80% chicken to 20% beef, and then if all goes well start increasing the beef.


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## Dawz84 (Apr 16, 2014)

I've only been giving him chicken wings and thighs so far. He has a habit of chewing and breaking all the bone so it can go down straight, then swallows it down. I've been meaning to ask if this is normal. Whats a good recommendation for something bigger? Lambs shank, lamb leg etc?

The mince I feed is around 4% bone (http://www.naturesmenu.co.uk/product-free-flow-chicken.aspx) but as I've mentioned they eat lots of chicken wings and thighs. Sounds like I should be upping the bone content though.

I also switched back to chicken yesterday and mixing in around 30% beef. He defiantly manages it better. A lot firmer today almost back to normal. Sounds like I gave him too much too soon.


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

If he's getting wings and thighs, then he's probably getting enough bone in general. Wings are about 45% bone and thighs 15%, so you can figure out the percentage with everything else he's eating, or just go by the stool. If it's white, hardy, and crumbly then too much. If runny, too little. You know the drill.

Yes, it's totally normal to swallow large chunks. Lamb is too expensive here for me to feed regularly, but yeah those would be good options. Lamb or pork ribs, necks, and trotters are also great, as are turkey wings and necks.

Glad he's doing better!


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## Dawz84 (Apr 16, 2014)

well i'm revisiting this... hes been a lot better and having the same issues that I thought were a result of change in diet, but hes been eating the same thing.

I'm now think its due to vegetable content. I've noticed when I ease off on the quantity he does a lot better. For example I had been giving him vegetables 3 times a day with each meal. A mix of, carrots, broccoli, peas, cauliflower. Sometime spinach and other times Swede and carrot. 

Reduce this down too once a day and hes fine. So my question would be how much should I be feeding a 16kg puppy. 

I've looked at the puppy complete food natural instinct do which is about 30% Veg so by my calculations he should be getting around 672g of meat and 288g of veg a day, does this sound about right?


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## Dawz84 (Apr 16, 2014)

I was doing a bit more reading on the veg and it say although you can feed broccoli and its good for them it can also irritate them and should be fed in moderation... i wonder if that's the culprit.


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

I've also found that broccoli, cauliflower, and some root vegetables cause digestive upset. Carrots for some reason seem to be the exception. My first few veggie mixes were full of variety, but I've since learned to keep them to 3 or 4 seasonal ingredients to make it easier to determine the culprit if any problems arise. How are you preparing the veggies? Chopping, pureeing? 

From what I've read dogs are carnivores who can and will eat vegetation, but whose systems aren't optimized to digest it. I consider fruits/veggies a natural vitamin/supplement and feed them 2-3 times a week. In general I aim to feed 75% muscle meat, 10% bone, 5% liver, 5% other organs, and 5% veggies. If you find that veggies are consistently causing problems, you can remove them entirely as dogs can get all their nutrients from meat, bones, and organs. 

I'd highly recommend joining the group Vizslas, Raw and Natural on facebook for advice on the BARF diet. That seems to be more along the lines of what you're feeding. Send a PM to the admin so she knows you're not a spammer.

Those numbers seem low, but I don't know the condition of your dog. Usually puppies under 8 months do well with 10% of their body weight in food, so 1600 grams total. I know it seems like a lot!


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