# hate to admit this but I don't think he respects me 100%



## Miles (May 18, 2011)

Yes, I hate to admit this but I am not a perfect dog mom! My 2 year-old is very obedient some times and other times he completely ignores me. It is especially a problem when he is off-leash and doesn't come back. He absolutely knows "come"- sometimes it's beautiful the way he spins around and hauls ass back to me. Other times I don't exist. 

We've done some training with a long leash but he knows when it is on and when it's off. I got an e-collar but it doesn't seem to be working- he really doesn't feel the pulse. I try it on my finger and sometimes I feel it and sometimes I don't- so I will send it back. 

I know it's a broad issue but does anyone have any advice?


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## flynnandlunasmom (May 28, 2012)

Unfortunately, I do not have any advice. My 2 year old ignores me sometimes too, as does my 8 year old. I've pretty much accepted it as the norm these days. I will say that on the days that I remember to bring treats along, recall is so much better!


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## SuperV (Oct 18, 2011)

Here my 2 red cents....on the Recall command...

1. Offer the command ONCE, and only 1 time.  If the dog doesn't come to you, you go get the dog and bring them back. DO NOT CALL THEM TWICE. IF you do you are just training you dog that he/she doesn't need to listen the first time. They have fantastic hearing - so be rest assured they heard you.

2. Don't offer the command, unless you can enforce the behavior you want...sometimes that means letting them drag a long lead and when they aren't looking, pick up the lead, call them and start popping the leash/pulling them. By being able to enforce the command EVERY time, the dog learns that EVERY time he is called, he WILL be coming back to you whether he likes it or not. Not listening isn't an option. You've made not listening isn't an option as you have the leash in your hand and can enforce it. This often means taking many steps back in your training from where you thought you are.

3. With respect to your e-collar...i don't know how you are using it, but it should be used as follows. Once you are absolutely sure the dog knows the command, you can start "overlaying" the stimulation with the poping of the leash. Basically replacing the "leash popping" with the stim. The stimulation/popping of the leash doesn't stop until the dog is back at your feet sitting (or whatever you prefer). Some folks will advocate a continuous stimulation. I prefer repeatingly "nicking" using the momentary stimulation button. Think of it as though your dog got in a bee hive, and is getting stung over and over and the only way for him to stop it is to come by your side. The more he refuses the more frequent the stings are. ONLY use the least amount of stimulation needed to get a response from your dog. YOU absolutely must not fry you dog with the STIM..it only needs high enough to be an annoyance...not painful. AGAIN you must start this with the leash on the dog and pull the dog back to you so he learns how to turn off the stimulation. You can't stim your dog and expect him to automatically know how to turn it off.

Other things to consider...
1. You may want to start using a different command such as Here or Side or whatever if you want if your previous command has tainted too much.

2. I usually find friends and family use "come" way too often and will work against your efforts so I use a command other than "come". She knows come, but know its more optional than the "here" command. When I say "HERE", she knows not listening isn't an option.

3. Also you want to call you dog back to at random times and coming back to you needs to be a great thing for you dog to want to do it. Use treats or whatever your dog likes. Call her back while she is playing with other dogs, praise her, and then send her back to play. This way coming back to doesn't always mean its time to go, or i'll be punished or what have you....
What E-collar do you have?

Hope this helps?

Nate


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## mlwindc (Feb 8, 2013)

Great tips Nate. We have an 8 mo old adolescent teenager of a male who is testing limits. Good reminder to work on it and not repeat commands (I do that all the time... Trainer says I am like a frustrated nagging mom... Well, that's what I feel like with a V and a four year old).


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

I will keep this real simple

all is a choice not a chance

since the 60's I have been working and running pointers Yes still a kid

I was blessed with 3 raw great sections of private family lands and endless dogs and elders that handed you 6 shells max

You produce or go back to Mommy

They were all proven seasoned great hunters and 2 back then still hunted to feed there families

not near a ribbon or pin.

Like foods and supplements

the must be more choices when we know there is much better then processed junk

This is not a popular contest

I earned my life friends



Deep respect is earned with great efforts cry's, smiles, frowns and suffering even death.



Each risk I find great rewards and not 1 needs to follow me or mine

as life is a choice.

You must have a large earned work bench for great dogs not just dna

each hour you try your progressing and always think outside the box.

A comment on here cracked me up I wet myself laughing

as we did this for years not a need to change and its good enough for a food choice.

You progress you educate you exceed the norm you will win.

This is not a debate

Hate will never make you great

reaching up and helping can help a few 

and all I hunt or hunted use the shock collars they work there far easier and faster all or many want it know

I chose time served risk driven remote

Your the Vet and all responsibilities lay on you

and the Mates will risk far more even on a simple command for you

Week 13 Willow was sticking all her points

was this just dna or luck?

Was this being far too bold?

Pointers are not just dogs embracing each win with greater love helps

and I am a nail driver

The hand command the whistle or my voice there all over it

Far more time, far more care and trust

and the ability to trust my mates far more then they trust me

None are close to perfect

I have a shop of mounts , kills and even some boring ribbons

they mean little to me

these day just watching my dogs work remote

following my rules set brings far greater smiles

then any kill I have left

work far harder with your hands eyes brains and deep earned thoughts

and zero hate to any shock collar like crap kibble there the norm

I care more as my mates are my kids and my family

I would die in a New York second saving Rudy or Willow

They both save me daily

Here is my shock collars a slower kinder choice like earning real core life saving foods much time to do this then pouring in a bag they call foods

and I use some kibble one.

God bless any child without hope or options

We all should provide more Hope

Bless the risk takers bless the hate

We wins


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

What kind of E collar? It should work every time, you should send it back to manufacturer if not....


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## jld640 (Sep 29, 2010)

Savannah is almost 3 and we went through the same regression phase around the 2 year mark. Get ready - with Savannah it kind of came and went - sort of a few weeks of perfection and then a few days or a week of not.

I thought long and hard about an e-collar, but my timing is still as atrocious now as the first billion times I considered it, so yet again, I decided it wasn't for us. I did find a few things that helped significantly.

First - we kept going with the long lead. Yes, Savannah knew when it was on and when it was off, but it gave her practice listening to me. I did make it a point to always take her somewhere fun when using the long lead so it was practice, not punishment.

Second - we also upped her regular leash walking any time she regressed - to the point of using it getting in and out of the car. I used lots of praise to emphasize the practice, not punishment.

Last - we went back to square one with training for both of us. A few minutes in the morning and evening. Sit, Down, Paw, Stand, Touch, Jump, Catch, Leave It, Wait, Come, etc. I wanted her to continue to practice listening to me. After just the first day, I realized that over the last 2 years I had relaxed what I was doing, too. These sessions became practice for us both.

Hang in there. With consistency and patience it will get better.


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## ridleyscott (Jul 9, 2013)

Miles, I have to agree with Super V and their points.

Our Vizsla Ridley is 16 weeks and he is a machine. But we have worked our butts off since we got him 8 weeks ago. We didn't take him anywhere to be trained, instead deciding that we were going to "home-school" him.

The huge "but" is, you have to be willing to discipline when the time comes and follow thru with it, every time. We decided before we got him that he would get a command one time and that was it. We learned this from our first labrador and also raising three children. If you allow them to ignore you, it's over.

We didn't discipline Ridley from weeks 8–12 while we would train him (10 minutes at a time, twice a day). It was rough, but he picked up the basics early. Heeling took the longest for him to get. At week 12, I introduced discipline. When I said "here," if he didn't come, he received a hard discipline (hopefully once, so he understood). Holy cow did things change immediately. He knew instantly from that point on that I/we meant business.

The point being that these commands (here, sit, stay) can save his life. Stopping immediately if a car is coming, or getting out of the way, immediately are very important. I'll tell you what tho, at the end of the training (I call it "going to work") I praise him like nobody's business and he knows he's a good boy. We play afterwards.

Surprising that everyone is shocked at how well behaved our "puppy" is.

It's not that hard, just takes some effort.


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## Gracesmom (May 19, 2013)

Ridleyscott, when you say hard discipline, what do you mean? My Gracey completely ignores me, like she doesn't even hear me, when we are outside. What did you do to train your dog so well? Please help! We went to obedience class but didn't help with her coming when called. Thanks!


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## lonestar (Jun 2, 2013)

I agree with Nate. +1.

The real task in training is to always base your expectations of their performance on their ability, rather than your needs or wants. So, although its understandable to want your V to run off lead and then have him return on one (or two or three recalls), the truth is you have to work up to that, so dont contaminate off lead free play time with off lead training time. Never, ever give a command that 1) your V doesnt fully understand (including the immediacy of your expectations), and never ever ever give a command you cannot immediately enforce. So, when it's play time and I need to recall, I'll just call out his name and offer hugs and carrots on recall until I am confident he can reliably respond to ""Come".

Also, I shudder at the term "Hard discipline", there is no place for that in a true learning experience, the whole point of 'discipline' is to provide a learning experience..it is not an opportunity for humans to express their frustration or dominance and it doesnt need to be 'Hard" for that to be accomplished. actually, all the data suggest that the best way to facilitate learning is with lots of encouragement and positive reinforcement. If you need to "Punish" him its probably you that have screwed up and not him.

The "discipline" I'd use..only after determining that it was my V that wasnt listening rather than my own need to see him as more proficient than he really is...would be to get him, snap a lead on, and have him do a sit-stay at arms length and then an IMMEDIATE come (which I could enforce)...and repeat about 5 or 6 times. 

Be consistent, be patient, and be aware of your own expectations Vs. his actual ability and you'll be fine, Remember, they really do want to please, its our task to be very clear to them what that entails.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Miles said:


> Yes, I hate to admit this but I am not a perfect dog mom! My 2 year-old is very obedient some times and other times he completely ignores me. It is especially a problem when he is off-leash and doesn't come back. He absolutely knows "come"- sometimes it's beautiful the way he spins around and hauls ass back to me. Other times I don't exist.
> 
> We've done some training with a long leash but he knows when it is on and when it's off. I got an e-collar but it doesn't seem to be working- he really doesn't feel the pulse. I try it on my finger and sometimes I feel it and sometimes I don't- so I will send it back.
> 
> I know it's a broad issue but does anyone have any advice?


Don't beat yourself up over this, because, you cannot possibly expect to compete with all the fun stuff out there, even if you carried dried fish in your pockets.
I would fix the ecollar, better yet, I would get a quailty ecollar by tritronics. I would also allow him the freedom to make some decisions. I noticed they are not bad.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Miles - pick 1 !!!!!! whistle and only use that - buy a few more in the same model - I always carry two - PS Tritronics is now owned by Garmin - that is a GOODTHING - PS2 - skip a metal whistle - hunt all day in 10deg weather - will be stuck 2 your lip LOL - I like the FOX 40 CLASSIC with bite guard - it's a refs whistle very loud !!! also beadless


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

ridleyscott said:


> Miles, I have to agree with Super V and their points.
> 
> Our Vizsla Ridley is 16 weeks and he is a machine. But we have worked our butts off since we got him 8 weeks ago. We didn't take him anywhere to be trained, instead deciding that we were going to "home-school" him.
> 
> ...


I don't want to sound horrible here but you are using an example of a 16 week old to offer advise to an owner of a 2 year old. These two pups are at completely different stages of maturity and although I am not questioning whether you have trained your pup well your pup could change completely one adolescence fully kicks in. Miles is wanting help with an adult dog that is regressing a bit. This is completely different to where you are. It sounds like you are doing a great job of setting up your pups foundation but don't think for a minute that your pup won't ever go through phases. It is near on impossible to compare a 16 week and a two year old.


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## ridleyscott (Jul 9, 2013)

Gracesmom, when I use the term "hard discipline" it refers to one of three different things. Either a spank on the butt, a "thrash" on the butt with the leash (only used once) or a kick with the side of my foot to the butt. If I could get him to give out a "yelp" the first time I did it, so he knew I meant business, the better. Then, it's back to work.

I can hear all of the people ready to freak out from any of these that I mentioned above, so before you start your comments, please relax.

I started training Ridley when he was 8 weeks old, all on-leash, without discipline and nothing but praise (no treats). He would get two sessions per day for about 10 minutes at a time and would get praised like nobody's business for everything. Also, there was a ton of this going on inside the house too. This was all reinforcement and repetition. When he didn't come immediately when called, you could give a tug on the leash, and he knew what to do. It's very easy to tell during the training sessions how the dog is doing, watch their tail.

At 12 weeks (all of these age ranges are scientifically backed up in books) they are ready for discipline. Dogs, like children, growing up are smart. They will lay on the milky sobbing eyes etc. If you let them, they will own you. We started moving him off leash training at 12 weeks, hence why I introduced the "hard discipline" I described above. When I called here when he was off leash, he was great, just like the first few weeks. But, eventually, he gets smart, realizes he doesn't need to obey because he isn't tethered to me anymore…hence the discipline. He was disciplined hard once and realized IMMEDIATELY that I meant business and we went back to being loving buddies.

Note: My dog has heard "good boy" 10,000 times more than he has been disciplined, at least. He does not, nor will he ever have to wear an electric collar to shock him.

For those that say this can't be done for an older dog, hogwash. But, you will probably need to start where we did, back on the leash, repeating everything all over again, twice a day for at least 10 minutes at a pop, that's what I'd do. DON'T JUST GO OUT AND KICK YOUR DOG!


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

ridleyscott said:


> Gracesmom, when I use the term "hard discipline" it refers to one of three different things. Either a spank on the butt, a "thrash" on the butt with the leash (only used once) or a kick with the side of my foot to the butt. If I could get him to give out a "yelp" the first time I did it, so he knew I meant business, the better. Then, it's back to work.
> 
> I can hear all of the people ready to freak out from any of these that I mentioned above, so before you start your comments, please relax.
> 
> ...


No one said an older dog can't be trained. It is just that dogs go through phases. Your pup is still a pup not a dog. Do not confuse the two. You will no doubt have phases when your pup turns into a dog where he ignores you. You will be tested and I think your methods will prove very difficult for a full grown dog. I won't go any further than this as I have a feeling you might not be too happy.


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