# Crate training while awake??? I cant leave the house Help me!!



## ESM (Jul 10, 2020)

Hi 
We are on week 2 of having our now 11 week old Vizsla puppy Murph at home with us...Hes responding amazingly we've been so impressed with him! 

However I need to start returning to work (luckily I have very flexible hours and am 5 mins from home)
He sleeps in his crate at night like a dream no comlaints from day one. He sleeps in his crate well during the day, we guide him to it when he starts to get snoozy and settle him down till hes chilled, then shut the door, happily settling himself when we disturb him only if he can see us or we are upstairs. He gets every meal in his crate, has had full crate training trying to get him comfortable in there... 

Its when he is awake/stirring, or I try to leave the room and shut the front door (or sometimes go to the loo (upstairs). If he isn't comletely exhausted he whines and sometime kicks up such a distressed fuss climbing and biting the cage. 

We are at a bit of a loss... I've seen advice saying don't let him get stressed in the cage it should be his happy place, so I avoid him getting wound up by letting him out before he gets too whiny. The one time I did attempt to leave him to cry and bite the bars, the next time he was incredibly reluctant to go back in.
I am fully aware I am pandering too much and need to put him through his paces being in the crate happily while he is awake so I can actually go back to work properly, not sneaking out the back door for an hour at a time when he is asleep. 
We have given him chews and Kongs but they don't entertain him enough to distract him from our abscence. We give him loads of play training and exercise when he is awake. 

I'd really appreciate any advice or at least some reassurance I'm doing something right. I want to get this right sooner rather than later causing a bigger separation anxiety problem further down the line. 

Emily
x


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## cynrunner (Feb 17, 2016)

You are doing better than we did with the crate! Mine never liked it. When I had to leave the house for a short errand, I could hear him barking, etc., he would eventually stop barking & lay down till I came home. At 6 months, I started trusting him to stay out of the crate while I was gone for short errands, I was surprised when I came home to find him laying quietly on the sofa, waiting for me. He did not do anything to the house at all. He never went back into the crate. We put it away. He is 4 1/2 now & is a very well behaved V.


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## Frida010 (Apr 24, 2020)

freealfin said:


> My advise to you is FIND SOMEONE WHO WILL REALLY LOVE YOUR PUP!!!!!!. No puppy should spend his puppy-hood being caged most of the time without companionship of any kind other that useless toys. You have no business having a pup, specially a Vizsla....


That’s just harsh and uncalled for in my opinion. 80% of the owners on this forum have had their pup crated while going to work. All go above and beyond to make it work for their pup. I am sure @ESM has thought it through before he/she got a Vizsla.

@ESM my pup is now 12 weeks old and never goes into her crate by herself. I have to put her in there every single time. She never cries when I’m gone but I haven’t left her alone for more than 2 hours. I take her to work, luckily.

I started with working in our study, with her crated and sleeping in the kitchen. Then, once I knew the crate was comfy I started building up, leaving while she was still awake and coming back within 5 / 10 / 20 mins. I always found her sound asleep. I am now able to leave her for 2 hours. I know that’s how long she sleeps and I open the door when she starts waking up. I am still working on building up to more than 2 hours.
So I’d say: practice while still at home, pretend to go to work and start working in the study (or any other room). What helped us big time was to put a nice big pillow (cozy cave) in her crate. That’s when she started to really sleep well and feel secure in there.

Goodluck!

p.s I love your pups name!!!


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

freealfin said:


> My advise to you is FIND SOMEONE WHO WILL REALLY LOVE YOUR PUP!!!!!!. No puppy should spend his puppy-hood being caged most of the time without companionship of any kind other that useless toys. You have no business having a pup, specially a Vizsla....


advice and not admonishment required, please re read forum rules !


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## freealfin (Jun 8, 2017)

harrigab said:


> advice and not admonishment required, please re read forum rules !


My apologies for braking the rules. Next time I'll find a way of saying the same without braking the rules.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

I actually sit on the fene with a crate,,,Ruby never had one, she slept in the kitchen in a basket at night, Elvis had a crate at night and slept in the living room in his crate whilst Ruby slept on the sofa ( in the living room to keep him company),,,both turned out to be well adjusted dogs, no real issues, both great working and family dogs, so I actually can't advise as much as people that have had multiple V's and tried both ways,,,every day is a school day.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

freealfin said:


> My apologies for braking the rules. Next time I'll find a way of saying the same without braking the rules.


there won't be a next time...


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## freealfin (Jun 8, 2017)

harrigab said:


> advice and not admonishment required, please re read forum rules !





harrigab said:


> there won't be a next time...


I just reviewed the term of use. Can you please point to me under what section is this rule.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

freealfin said:


> I just reviewed the term of use. Can you please point to me under what section is this rule.


you know, it's 20 past midnight here in the UK, I ain't going through all the sub sections of the forum rules to highlight the fact that members should refrain from personal and abusive posts towards other members..I can just as easily hit the "ban" button..your call..


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## freealfin (Jun 8, 2017)

harrigab said:


> you know, it's 20 past midnight here in the UK, I ain't going through all the sub sections of the forum rules to highlight the fact that members should refrain from personal and abusive posts towards other members..I can just as easily hit the "ban" button..your call..


NOW YOU'R BREAKING YOUR OWN RULES BY THREATENING ME........I'M NOT ONE TO RESPOND WELL TO THREATS......I RESIGN.......


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

haha, no, just highlighting that I'm not a snowflake, I'ii delete your account shortly, take care, maybe look at your cap lock


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## ESM (Jul 10, 2020)

Frida010 said:


> That’s just harsh and uncalled for in my opinion. 80% of the owners on this forum have had their pup crated while going to work. All go above and beyond to make it work for their pup. I am sure @ESM has thought it through before he/she got a Vizsla.
> 
> @ESM my pup is now 12 weeks old and never goes into her crate by herself. I have to put her in there every single time. She never cries when I’m gone but I haven’t left her alone for more than 2 hours. I take her to work, luckily.
> 
> ...




Thanks for this!

I’ve been misunderstood... I will be taking Murph to work eventually... I work outdoors and aim to have him with me asap, but I cant take him till he is well trained, for now I need him to be comfortable alone for max 2 hours, as I pop back and forth from work to spend time with him. and will gradually introduce him to my workplace as and when he is ready. We have multiple local friends with Vs who will support us if we need to leave him any longer... but I need him to be comfortable with me walking out the door at least to pop to the shop, or even take the bins out!

Thanks for any support and advice

👍


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## Frida010 (Apr 24, 2020)

harrigab said:


> I actually sit on the fene with a crate,,,Ruby never had one, she slept in the kitchen in a basket at night, Elvis had a crate at night and slept in the living room in his crate whilst Ruby slept on the sofa ( in the living room to keep him company),,,both turned out to be well adjusted dogs, no real issues, both great working and family dogs, so I actually can't advise as much as people that have had multiple V's and tried both ways,,,every day is a school day.


Always when someone on the forum writes that they don’t use crates, I have absolute no idea how you manage 😉. I mean, if I don’t crate Fred she’ll find anything to “have fun with” (rip to shreds). Plus, she has no idea when she needs to get her sleep. She never puts herself to sleep. And if she doesn’t sleep in a crate she wakes up every 30 minutes to play. We really have to force her to get her sleep. I guess, when she’s old enough we’ll het rid of it.


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## Frida010 (Apr 24, 2020)

ESM said:


> Thanks for this!
> 
> I’ve been misunderstood... I will be taking Murph to work eventually... I work outdoors and aim to have him with me asap, but I cant take him till he is well trained, for now I need him to be comfortable alone for max 2 hours, as I pop back and forth from work to spend time with him. and will gradually introduce him to my workplace as and when he is ready. We have multiple local friends with Vs who will support us if we need to leave him any longer... but I need him to be comfortable with me walking out the door at least to pop to the shop, or even take the bins out!
> 
> ...


Then your situation is similar to mine! I crate her max 2 hours (although atm it’s 2,5 and she is still quietly sleeping).

Just start practicing at home. And I strongly believe that she should be able to trust you to let her out when she starts crying AFTER her sleep. I always let her cry before she has slept. Sometimes at work, when there’s a lot of fun people around. She really doesn’t want to go to bed. I swear it sounds like locked a Tasmanian Devil in a crate. People are used to it. She always falls asleep within 10 minutes.
I have the crate covered, but when she goes nuts I always stay nearby, out of sight. Just to check that she doesn’t hurt herself. It’s really hard when she goes apeshit but I know in the end she knows after sleep the door always opens.


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## ESM (Jul 10, 2020)

Haha! Apeshit is the right word 😂

Sure this is the approach we have been working on, only returning to him when some sort of calm is achieved, and avoiding putting him in there when he's not tired enough to settle. 

Its just the front door business thats getting my head in a twist, Ive managed to get him to stay asleep with the sound of the door opening and closing but if he notices me walk out the door all **** breaks loose... I guess its just time and him building trust that I will always come back through that door when I leave.

But how do I get him to stay calm when he sees me leave? What do I do if he does go ‘apeshit’... leave him to go mental or go and reassure him? 

🧐


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## Frida010 (Apr 24, 2020)

Can he settle and fall asleep with you present without any issues? If not, I think you’ll have to take a step back.

Does he go apeshit the second you go out the door? Or does it take a minute, or 30 seconds? Can you time it and come back before? And then start stretching.

Do you say anything when you leave and when you come back? You have to act like it is perfectly normal, so don’t say goodbye or hello.

Can you go to the toilet? Or can yo get out of sight? Have you tried covering the crate? Maybe taking it a step back and actually getting out of sight first, building up from there would work. Our crate is covered at all sides but the front. I can sitat the table next to her without het seeing me. I don’t want her to stare at me all the time 👀.

About letting cry: I haven’t figured this one out either, a lot of different opinions on that. What works for me is that I can sometimes hear a difference in her panicking or her just protesting. Panic noise gives a higher shriek. If I hear her panicking I let her out and go outside to toilet. Then straight back in. Usually she had to go potty and couldn’t get to rest because of it. I never let her out and stay with me. Only toilet breaks.

She only goes nuts sometimes at work. I can leave her at it and let her fall asleep tired, but it doesn’t feel right. I’m using a smaller crate there and I’m going to switch it to the one I use at home. If she still goes nuts in there, I think I’d let her. Knowing that she had no problems at home.


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## PinDave (Jul 1, 2020)

Maui sleeps in his crate at night, and if we have to go out, he goes in his crate. He’s perfectly fine sleeping through the night in his crate now, and is happy to go in and lay down. It’s about 50% when we have to leave for a couple hours during the day. Sometimes he goes in and sleeps and doesn’t make a sound. Sometimes he goes in fine, but cries, barks and whines as we leave and when we come back. I have no idea if he’s upset the whole time we’re gone.
I could not leave Maui out of his crate while unsupervised, as he would eat my house to the ground. He’s in his crate for his safety when we’re out.
When Maui would cry, I would go and lay down with my face at the crate door, not saying anything to soothe him as I don’t want to reward undesirable behaviour. I’d just look at him until he stopped making noise. Only then would I open the crate door and let him climb into my lap. I still do this when I come home and he’s making a fuss. Further, now when let him out, I command him to ‘wait’, open the crate door, make him wait for a half minute, and then tell him to come.


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## Gabica (Jan 20, 2018)

here is my crate story: growing up i have never seen dogs crated, i grew up on the country side of Hungary, farms or big backyards, lakes, forests etc where dogs would be able to release their energy and then crash, not getting into trouble in the house. Or they would be simply out door dogs with a dog house in the backyard. Those were the days when we did not even own a key to our house as it was not needed... So when i first saw dogs being crated i thought it was cruel... Then Bende arrived and decided to crate train, but we struggled immensely... Too big crate to begin with, located at the wrong part of the house, lots of bad weather for weeks, backyard not ready due to bad weather etc. So he would wake us up every 2 hours max, and still often pooped (mostly stress diarrhea) in his big crate, crying his soul out... If we let him sleep on the couch and in our laps, he was an angel. Towards end of week 2 i was alone with him at home and i crashed with him on the couch in the evening towards 9 o clock, all those sleepless nights catching up with me. Next thing i know, i wake up at 5 am, Bende comfortable snuggled to me, nothing is wet or so... So basically at 10 weeks old he was able to sleep thru the night, he just needed to feel safe. Changed all the arrangements, he got a much smaller crate (no divider, a real puppy crate) placed in the bedroom next to our bed, and the bigger crate remained in the living room for feeding. He slept till 5 from that time onwards and then till 6 we would snuggle on the couch. Everyone happy.
Miksa has been the opposite from day 1, happy to play and spend time on your lap, chewing or just snuggling, but once getting sleepy, heading to his crate. He also slept thru the night from around 10.5 weeks old.
Nowadays, they sleep in their crates side by side. Bende sometimes comes up to the bed in the middle of the night, sometimes he remains in his crate. During the day naps they are in these wooden crates (pic attached), during the night they have some in the bedroom. Bende is just getting a soft crate, as he is now mature enough for that type and those are much easier to move, clean etc.
They also only travel in crates in the car (safety) and i prefer having them in crates when at competitions, not staked out.


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## PinDave (Jul 1, 2020)

Those are the most beautiful crates I have ever seen!


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## ESM (Jul 10, 2020)

Frida010 said:


> Can he settle and fall asleep with you present without any issues? If not, I think you’ll have to take a step back.
> 
> Does he go apeshit the second you go out the door? Or does it take a minute, or 30 seconds? Can you time it and come back before? And then start stretching.
> 
> ...




He settles himself on his cushion in the kitchen, then we usually lead him to his crate when sleepy to sleep in there. sometimes goes well sometimes doesnt.

We’d move his crate to the kitchen but we have an aga and it gets unbearably hot in there in summer months without the doors open. 
and for the same reason we cant leave him uncrated in the kitchen to let loose on the cupboards. 

Regarding the front door... yes he kicks off a few seconds into us opening the door (when hes awake) if he's sleepy he can last a lot longer, and wont notice we've gone.
We have his crate set up in a cosy corner of the living room with a spacious pen around that to give him space outside his crate.

We are currently 15 mins into an apeshit fit of him not settling even while we are sat less than 1meter away, he was almost fast off sitting on our lap so is definately tired.

I’d be more than happy to let him chill with us all the time but its not sustainable.

Will keep shuffling things around, figuring out his character, and trying to make him feel safe - it really does feel like he’s just kicking up a fuss sometimes to get our attention despite having had plenty of it the last 2hrs, and I just need to mow the lawn and cant have him with me.


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## Frida010 (Apr 24, 2020)

I’d start by letting him go crazy and move to a different room just to get some peace of mind for you. Fred sometimes won’t stop crying either when I’m in the room, but easily settles down when I’m gone and she can’t focus on getting my attention.
I think you’re right, he has everything he needs and is tired enough to get some sleep. I’d say let him go crazy until he falls asleep for let’s say a week or so. Maybe time it and see if his tantrums get shorter. Just hope you haven’t got neighbors.

In my experience, my pup Fred is perfectly crate trained at home, but at work -where I used to let her out if she went apeshit- her behavior is worse. 

So, knowing she had everything she needed (toilet break, water etc.) and is tired, I now let her cry as long as it takes for her to fall asleep. But again, after sleep I always open her doors right away and take her out. Never let her cry after she has slept for at least an hour.


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## Starrpath (Nov 7, 2017)

ESM said:


> Hi
> We are on week 2 of having our now 11 week old Vizsla puppy Murph at home with us...Hes responding amazingly we've been so impressed with him!
> 
> However I need to start returning to work (luckily I have very flexible hours and am 5 mins from home)
> ...


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## Starrpath (Nov 7, 2017)

I believe in crate training; it's good for the pup and it's good for the owner. One of the things I hear about so often is just what you're requesting advice on now...a pup that doesn't accept the fact that he can be restrained at any time by his owner. When my pups leave they have been crate trained and then trained to have a bed within an exercise pen. They are in the pen several times during the day for up to maybe 2 hours at a time, It's because puppies need a time out place and the crate &/or exercise pen represents a safe haven to them. They go in the pen, sometimes they'll look at me for a minute or two and then, of their own volition, they take a nap. When they wake up they may play with each other or they may come to the side of the pen and look at me. I'll talk to them but I never rush over to take them out of the pen and "give them freedom." I especailly don't respond if a pup is being vocal with me. I call it learning patience. When I'm ready, anywhere from 5-10 minutes after they wake up, I let them out and we all go out to do puppy business and play for a bit. Then they have a meal, then they go outside again, then they come back and go into the exercise pen. They are never forced and they never complain. When the new owners take them home they have a puppy that knows containment is just for a short time, they don't have separation anxiety when the owner leaves the room, and the owner has peace of mind that he/she has the freedom to go to work or take a shower or go grocery shopping or whatever because the pup feels safe and contented. 
I do provide soft toys for cuddling and chew toys for them while in the pen. Chewing hard toys or marrow bones iprovide a calming activity, self soothing, for the pups. This crate training begins when they are puppies and continues into adulthood. When adult they don't need the pen, they just go in their kennel when I ask or they feel like it.
If you try this it just may work out well for you too.


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## ESM (Jul 10, 2020)

Such a supportive reply thank you @Starrpath 

Things have been getting better this last week! 

Ive worked really hard on making his crate/ play pen area a happy place for him... what makes him happy most is time with me and food so I spent time playing with him in his crate and have give him every meal in a Kong type toy which he enjoys!

Also being able to take him out into the big world had helped heaps!! Its been good for his mental stimulation and my mental health lol
By the time we get home from a short walk in town/the woods I invite him to his crate settle him then walk away... after 3 days I can now leave him awake in his crate walk away out of sight and he settles within minutes!! Result! 

Thanks for the support everyone its helped so much!


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## Starrpath (Nov 7, 2017)

ESM said:


> Such a supportive reply thank you @Starrpath
> 
> Things have been getting better this last week!
> 
> ...


How nice to hear! I'm happy for you


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## rchik43 (Apr 12, 2020)

My 10 week old sleeps well in the crate through the night now. The first 3-4 days there was a bit of whining but now he is comfortable. I always have a some ice cubes ( he loves ice cubes) or a chew toy like a Kong with a dab of frozen peanut butter waiting for him..Now in the mornings I take him for a 10 min walk ...at the end of which he is quite tired and I lead him back to the crate...with some small treat...as soon as he is in...I cover all sides of the crate...and I think he just calms down and most likely sleeps...I don't talk to him much when I leave..just cover the crate and leave quickly...so far , although he may whine slightly for a couple of minutes sometimes, he calms down and goes quiet. I take him out after a hour 15 minutes or so...for a potty break..So far so good. I hoping that he will get used to going back in the crate after the morning walk as he grows up. I do the same in the evenings, take him for a 10 minute walk , then he is tired and I lead him back in the crate ..(I have so far found this helpful to manage the evening witching hour he used to have)....may be the key is to be quick when you put him back in the crate and then walk off...he may whine a bit at the start but will learn to calm down, may be leave some ice-cubes or a kong + dab of peanut butter for him in there...


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## rubicon (Dec 9, 2019)

our trainer got us to have a routine when we’re leaving the house. We leave by telling him to “kennel up”, then give him a treat. Then we go out the door. Starting out, we only left for 10 seconds, then we come back calmly and let him out. Repeat this a few times per day. Go out, come back, rinse, repeat. 

Our trainer said not to be emotional about it, even if he is emotional, just because you don’t want him to think you coming back or leaving is a big deal. You gradually increase the time. Go for a couple of minutes, etc.

He basically has to learn the owners leaving is not something to be worked up about. Also we leave toys and chews for him to entertain himself. He also has a special treat he only gets in the crate.


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## ESM (Jul 10, 2020)

Hi
I thought Id post an update on here for anyone reading the post with the same problem we had!
It got 100% better! 
Now at 21 months old Murph LOVES his crate, he cries and barks of we dont put him in there at night or when we leave. Its his safe place its his bedroom. I can happily leave the house for max 4hours if hes been well walked and fed.

Thanks for all the advice and reassurance on here, it made all the difference 🤘


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## hmills22 (11 mo ago)

Crate-Training.docx


Microsoft Word Document



1drv.ms


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