# Let the bird training begin!



## Pecan_and_BB (Jun 15, 2015)

So I've been patient with Pecan in letting her be a puppy first, getting into routine and getting her basics down pat. The past two weeks on our hikes though, I can see the change where her nose is into the wind, she's eyeing the brush and trees, and ranging much further than she has. 

So she has decided that it is time I do my best to train her in what she was meant to do.

1st step complete: Some good ol' wing-on-a-string to get her on point (had some success with her this morning where she wouldn't budge from her position)
2nd step complete: My neighbor has a perfect field that he just pulled his last crop of hay for the season and he has agreed to let me use the field.
3rd step incomplete: Find someone fairly local quail for training. I'm still looking around and wondering how many I need, what gear should be used, etc.. Any help/feedback on this would be appreciated.

I am looking forward to working her through the fields and seeing her react to the quail.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

If you can get your hands on enough birds, I just let them do most of the early work. Slightly dizzy them, and toss in a few different places in the field. Wait 15-20 minutes, and release the dog. Stay out of its way, other than a little praise every now and then. The only thing I'm doing at that point is building up a young pups confidence in the bird field. I let the pup hold point for as long as it will, and I'm never in a hurry to flush birds for them. I will let them creep, chase, and know they are going to just down right bust some of the birds right off the bat. I don't look at it as a bad thing, as they learn from their actions. 

You and Pecan have a incredible journey a head of you.


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## Pecan_and_BB (Jun 15, 2015)

TexasRed said:


> If you can get your hands on enough birds, I just let them do most of the early work. Slightly dizzy them, and toss in a few different places in the field. Wait 15-20 minutes, and release the dog. Stay out of its way, other than a little praise every now and then. The only thing I'm doing at that point is building up a young pups confidence in the bird field. I let the pup hold point for as long as it will, and I'm never in a hurry to flush birds for them. I will let them creep, chase, and know they are going to just down right bust some of the birds right off the bat. I don't look at it as a bad thing, as they learn from their actions.
> 
> You and Pecan have a incredible journey a head of you.


Thx for the advice TR. It sure will be fun to start seeing her do exactly what she was meant to do, I already now love watching her turn off her bouncy funny puppy mode, and go into her serious time hunt mode.

On a side note, I just found some Chukars locally that I will be picking up Monday so weather permitting, it's going to be very fun week.


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

I like to use pigeons at this point. Pigeons are much less likely to get caught then pen raised birds. The chukar may fly far enough, they may not. It looks like your dog is old enough to run them down though, and if the birds don't explode away fast enough or far enough, birds will start getting caught. Which can lead to problems down the road. But that's my .02.


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## Pecan_and_BB (Jun 15, 2015)

Thanks V-John.

I've always had fox and walker hounds as my hunting breeds and this is my first bird dog so I'm sure I'll be making some mistakes with her along the way so every little bit of advice from experienced people like you helps.

She's at 4 1/2 months right now and really hasn't been exposed to any formal hunting runs just yet. From a few locals in my area, chukar were recommended for first outing and then move to pigeons from there fairly quickly as you have recommended.

I'll be posting a little later this week with how things went for first field outing.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I like game birds for amping up a pup at first, but then change over to pigeons. Pigeons just fly better, and are hardier birds.
When you dizzy the chukar, make sure you give them time to recover before letting Pecan in the field. It lessens the chance that she will catch them. I've had them fly great, and then had days I had to kick them up.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

pec - with a lifetime of pointers - I buy birds - set them - this is how the pup begins - if you want the best pup in the field - at some POINT - they have to V on wild birds - this is what they were bred for - it is a different game in a field that goes to the horizon - just you the pup - his nose - then all of your & the pups work becomes - SIMPLE !!!!!! TRUST me on this !!!!!!!!!


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## Pecan_and_BB (Jun 15, 2015)

So a little update on Pecan's hunt training:

Chukars worked out well for her first week. She was able to locate and get on point with them fairly well with the exception of one or two where she practically stepped on them and then just chased them out bounding and running around like a little kid in the McDonald's play area.

I have switched to pigeons in launchers now and she is now used to the launcher noise as well as a starters pistol. One thing I've noticed is that when she is working the field, her tail is straight out and darting around all over the place, but the moment she goes on point, it starts to fall (see pic 2). I have been working with her where I walk up to her and pet it back up, but it then starts to fall again.

A few pictures (I have some video, but haven't had time to edit it yet)

Pic 1: Forgot I had this one. 1st visit to the breeders, 4 weeks old, out with her pack and already on point!
Pic 2: On point during training with her tail falling
Pic 3: Working on retrieving with a frozen pheasant. Loves to bring it back to me, hates to give it up though, haha.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

> but the moment she goes on point, it starts to fall


We all think of that 12 o'clock tail on point, but that's really not the case in a lot of dogs. It falls any where from 12-6, and a good many have more of a 2-3 o'clock tail when on point. You can stroke it up, but I've always found a dogs style, is a dogs style. Its going to return to their natural position.
IMO
Its never the dogs tail that makes it a good hunter.
Brains, nose, ability to cover a field, and drive make a bird dog.


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## Pecan_and_BB (Jun 15, 2015)

Thx for the advice TR. 

I'm being that overly critical owner looking for perfection instead of enjoying what we are doing.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Pe - I go with TR on this 1 - I was raised with my grandfathers English pointers - they were pure STYLE !!!!!! got my first V in 1971 - it took about 5mins in the field to realize - they are all NOSE - PIKE like the 1s before him - has no idea where his body is - the NOSE locks down - this is why I love a V - do get some picture perfect points now and again - LOL


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## Pecan_and_BB (Jun 15, 2015)

2 more weeks of training under the belt and decided to post a little update:

I realized for field work that I was pressuring her far too much and she began to lose interest in what we were doing. I think because I felt she was far too close to the birds when she would get on point, that I would start using a whoa command prior to her going into a natural point as a correction in an attempt to teach her. This was a HUGE mistake on my part as she didn't associate the command with the distance I wanted her from the bird. It also had the effect that she began to think I knew exactly where all the birds were (which I did since I planted those). This caused her to range less and look to me for far too much direction on where to go and what to do. She then would just give up after the first bird and go chase the butterflies or attempt to find deer poop.

I took a step back, asked a few guys I knew on what to do and went back to some basics with her which was just letting her work the field with birds that are not in launchers (just dizzied up) and allowing her to figure out for herself that she can't catch them if she points too late or if she rushes them. The results this past week are very encouraging, she's now ranging far more, as her attempt to anticipate a whoa command has decreased and I am not feeding information to her on where the birds are; after 12 birds this past week taking off before she can even get close, I can see her figuring it out, changing her tactics and starting to stalk a little more. Most importantly her prey drive has shot through the roof where she wants to keep going after bird #3 and butterflies and deer poop have zero value. Even on our regular off-leash hikes on local trails she is now ranging far more and going into hunt mode.

One little funny setback happened on an off-leash hike yesterday where she got on point, but before I could get up to her, she pounced into some thick brush and after some squaking, she came out with a robin in her mouth. So happy and proud of herself, she did a few circles around me bounding like Tigger, then finally dropped it at my feet at which point it flew away. On that same hike, she got on 2 pheasant and reverted back to her charging right in tactics, which failed miserably with the pheasants just flying away and her chasing after them. Hopefully the robin didn't set her back from her progress.

Anyways, thought I would share my mistakes for those like me who are 1st time V training on birds.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Your a smart person. You figured out something was going wrong with training, asked for advise., and the big one Followed It. The hardest two things to do with young pups in the field is keep you lips zipped, and stay out of the pups way. We are all going to make mistakes at one time or another, and most of the time they are only small set backs on training.
I wouldn't worry about her catching the robin, she was bound to catch a bird at some point. The best laid plans don't always go like we think they will. With the other birds flying good, she will learn most cant be caught by pouncing in. Some pups have more chase in them than others, but they all figure it out over time.


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## Pecan_and_BB (Jun 15, 2015)

A local wild life management area released a bunch of pheasant and quail into their park yesterday and I was able to get Pecan out before the other hunters got in there and shot them all up.

Best training day I have had, she got on point for 4 pheasant and 1 quail and stayed there until I got ahead and kicked up the bird. To my surprise, on the last 3, she stayed behind until I released her and she chased them out. She was in tune with me and very aware of her distance on the birds and on me.

I guess my next step now is to introduce the gun?

Side note: She also got on point for another robin where the robin decided to call Pecan's bluff and it took a step towards her. Pecan called the bird's bluff.....the robin lost.


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## Pecan_and_BB (Jun 15, 2015)

First war wound yesterday. She jumped into some brush, I heard a yelp and she came out with quite the cut on her face and a couple of scratches. I have no idea what she did as I didn't see anything in there as it was too thick. Funny thing is, the tough little girl just kept on going.

Once she got home and I cleaned it up, she was pretty darn upset with me like it was my fault that I was hurting her.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

> Funny thing is, the tough little girl just kept on going.


That's a good thing. It shows she has drive to overcome obstacles.


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## Pecan_and_BB (Jun 15, 2015)

TexasRed said:


> > Funny thing is, the tough little girl just kept on going.
> 
> 
> That's a good thing. It shows she has drive to overcome obstacles.


Yea, I learnt a few dogs ago not to make a big deal about these types of things, so because I was calm and not freaking out, I don't think she really cared and kept her focus. I didn't want to create something either where she associated the thick brush with something bad.

In 24 hours the wound has already closed up and scabbed over. Amazing how quickly they heal up.


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## Pecan_and_BB (Jun 15, 2015)

Got a fantastic day out on Saturday. Went into a local marsh area and had just perfect weather. Just a really nice playground for the pup to explore and hunt.
Pic 1 is a panoramic shot of the area and where Pecan spent the day. 
Pic 2, of course on the final day of duck season here, after everyone has packed up and walking out, Pecan hears quite the commotion and heads out to check what's going on and I capture this shot. Everyone laughed.


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