# Breeder concerns



## Gillbeaux (Sep 23, 2015)

I did some researching about a month ago for some breeders that would be having puppies mid October, and would be ready to go around Christmas. After contacting quite a few, I was referenced to a Breeder in Oklahoma. After talking with the lady who runs the kennel, I decide to make a deposit for a puppy. I am worried I may have jumped the gun and would like to know if anyone here has had any experience with Prairie Pup Vizslas out of Oklahoma. 

I read a previous post on this site that someone was concerned about a pup they got from this breeder, bc of heart worm problems, and a bald spot where the tail was docked. 

If anyone knows anything about this breeder, I'd really appreciate some feedback, and also if anyone knows of any reputable breeders that may have puppies around Christmas, let me know!

THANKS!


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I don't know anything about the breeder. I did try and look up a couple of their dogs, and found nothing on health clearances, or titles. It makes it hard to research the dogs they are breeding. 

You mentioned in another post that you have young kids.
I would look for a breeder that has the litters temperament evaluated. You need a pup that is matched to your family. 



> I read a previous post on this site that someone was concerned about a pup they got from this breeder, bc of heart worm problems, and a bald spot where the tail was docked.


I know the post your talking about. It was worms, not heart worms. Its not uncommon for pups to get worms, even if the breeder worms them.
Some of the owners other concerns was due to lack of research on the breed.
As far as the pups tail, no pictures were ever posted. Makes it hard to know if it was docked correctly, or not.

You may want to contact your local vizsla club, and have them send you a list of breeders they consider to be good. If there is a local vizsla rescue in your area contact them too,ask if they get dogs in from that kennel.

Last A good many breeders don't like to release pups at Christmas.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

As TR mentioned, we can't determine much from their website. It doesn't disclose what the breeding is/will be, but their prior breeding has no health clearance in the OFA database. That should be flag enough to stay away, and is for those of us experienced in such things. If they had the clearance, it would be in the database. Any storytelling otherwise is hokum. Will it be enough of a flag for you is only a thing you can decide. 

Also as TR mentioned, it's a big red flag for good breeders when folks are looking for a Christ-mas pup-py. The new toy shine wears off very quickly.

Also a bit of a flag that the price is 1/3 to 1/2 of most known reputable breeders.

And the health and support guarantee, in writing?

Good luck,
K


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

There's nothing at all on that site that would make me feel good....and "Weizslas" would make me run for the hills.

If you have doubts...and I would...either try to get your deposit back, or just chalk it up to a mistake. Based on the price of the puppies, the deposit couldn't have been much anyways.


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## Gillbeaux (Sep 23, 2015)

Yea, I can understand why breeders would be concerned about the Christmas puppy scenario, but in my case, it was kind of a secondary reason to get the puppy around Christmas. The timing we were expecting to be ready for a dog was around Christmas, so we figured why not suprise the kids then.

The more I've been looking into things, I think I may have jumped the gun a little. I really appreciate all of the help though.
What would yall say the average price range is from a respectable breeder? The lady I am tied up with now said the puppies would be $1200, including the $200 deposit.

If anyone knows of any upcoming litters, I'd appreciate some help in the right direction.

thanks! I wasn't expecting this forum to be as active and helpful as it has been.


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## Redroxy (Jan 9, 2021)

Gillbeaux said:


> Yea, I can understand why breeders would be concerned about the Christmas puppy scenario, but in my case, it was kind of a secondary reason to get the puppy around Christmas. The timing we were expecting to be ready for a dog was around Christmas, so we figured why not suprise the kids then.
> 
> The more I've been looking into things, I think I may have jumped the gun a little. I really appreciate all of the help though.
> What would yall say the average price range is from a respectable breeder? The lady I am tied up with now said the puppies would be $1200, including the $200 deposit.
> ...


I am wondering if you ever got your deposit back or what happened. I did the exact same thing you did with the same breeder. Wondering if you went through with getting the dog or not. Thanks!


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

We've had a huge stink over this breeder in Texas. We could not figure out why so many Texas people were buying them. Their dogs have no health clearances. In fact none of the puppy owners have ever been on the property, or seen the dogs he breeds, or how they are kept. He gives them a line of BS on why he keeps their location private. Vizsla rescue has taken in quite a few of their dogs through owner surrender. As the owners did not want the dogs to go back to him.

This is why so many people bought from them.
We have a so called breeder/rescue in Texas.
She is not a official rescue, and does not have a 501 c 3. But because she lists herself as a rescue, people looking for a Vizsla puppy trusted her. If she didn't have a puppy available, she would refer the people to Prairie Pup. She would go as far as vouching for them, so they felt comfortable getting a puppy, without ever knowing anything about the breeder.


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## Redroxy (Jan 9, 2021)

texasred said:


> We've had a huge stink over this breeder in Texas. We could not figure out why so many Texas people were buying them. Their dogs have no health clearances. In fact none of the puppy owners have ever been on the property, or seen the dogs he breeds, or how they are kept. He gives them a line of BS on why he keeps their location private. Vizsla rescue has taken in quite a few of their dogs through owner surrender. As the owners did not want the dogs to go back to him.
> 
> This is why so many people bought from them.
> We have a so called breeder/rescue in Texas.
> She is not a official rescue, and does not have a 501 c 3. But because she lists herself as a rescue, people looking for a Vizsla puppy trusted her. If she didn't have a puppy available, she would refer the people to Prairie Pup. She would go as far as vouching for them, so they felt comfortable getting a puppy, without ever knowing anything about the breeder.





texasred said:


> We've had a huge stink over this breeder in Texas. We could not figure out why so many Texas people were buying them. Their dogs have no health clearances. In fact none of the puppy owners have ever been on the property, or seen the dogs he breeds, or how they are kept. He gives them a line of BS on why he keeps their location private. Vizsla rescue has taken in quite a few of their dogs through owner surrender. As the owners did not want the dogs to go back to him.
> 
> This is why so many people bought from them.
> We have a so called breeder/rescue in Texas.
> She is not a official rescue, and does not have a 501 c 3. But because she lists herself as a rescue, people looking for a Vizsla puppy trusted her. If she didn't have a puppy available, she would refer the people to Prairie Pup. She would go as far as vouching for them, so they felt comfortable getting a puppy, without ever knowing anything about the breeder.


Thank you for the reply. Word for word that is what has happened. I have had Vizslas in the past and I have found a reputable breeder so I will just wait


texasred said:


> We've had a huge stink over this breeder in Texas. We could not figure out why so many Texas people were buying them. Their dogs have no health clearances. In fact none of the puppy owners have ever been on the property, or seen the dogs he breeds, or how they are kept. He gives them a line of BS on why he keeps their location private. Vizsla rescue has taken in quite a few of their dogs through owner surrender. As the owners did not want the dogs to go back to him.
> 
> This is why so many people bought from them.
> We have a so called breeder/rescue in Texas.
> She is not a official rescue, and does not have a 501 c 3. But because she lists herself as a rescue, people looking for a Vizsla puppy trusted her. If she didn't have a puppy available, she would refer the people to Prairie Pup. She would go as far as vouching for them, so they felt comfortable getting a puppy, without ever knowing anything about the breeder.


Thank you for the reply. Yes, word for word that is the case. I am smarter than that usually, I think I just missed my Vizslas that passed away so much I was eager to have one in our family again. Luckily I have found a reputable breeder and will patiently wait it out with them instead. Thank you again.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

If your in Texas contact Huntmore Vizsla, or Regal Point Vizsla. Both are the club breeder referral people for Texas.


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## B1471 (Jan 14, 2021)

Hello! I found this page while researching this breeder. I am from texas too and I was referred to them by Dallas Vizslas, that might be the reason why a lot of people fron Texas end up there.

So far, I have seen a lot of posts from people that have gotten puppies from them for years and no regrets or issues. I am about to put a deposit but wanted to check on this thread beforehand to see if there were any specific issues found with this breeder? They mentioned all puppies come with a health contract, are AKC registered and come with all the health checks, worming and vaccines. 



texasred said:


> We've had a huge stink over this breeder in Texas. We could not figure out why so many Texas people were buying them. Their dogs have no health clearances. In fact none of the puppy owners have ever been on the property, or seen the dogs he breeds, or how they are kept. He gives them a line of BS on why he keeps their location private. Vizsla rescue has taken in quite a few of their dogs through owner surrender. As the owners did not want the dogs to go back to him.
> 
> This is why so many people bought from them.
> We have a so called breeder/rescue in Texas.
> She is not a official rescue, and does not have a 501 c 3. But because she lists herself as a rescue, people looking for a Vizsla puppy trusted her. If she didn't have a puppy available, she would refer the people to Prairie Pup. She would go as far as vouching for them, so they felt comfortable getting a puppy, without ever knowing anything about the breeder.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

If you want to buy from a puppy mill, you are free to do so. No need to worry about the horrible conditions that these breeding dogs have to live in every day of their life. Or the conditions that your new puppy lived in, before it was bathed and brought to you.
It's more important that you get a puppy now, than waiting on one from a reputable breeder.

The reason you don't see people posting about the problem dogs, is they feel duped by the breeder. They release the pup to rescue, or rehome it. They leave the forum, and Vizsla Facebook groups.

Sorry, I'm not in a being nice mood.
We try so hard ( countless hours) to educate people on what to look for in a responsible breeder. Then to have someone knowingly still want to buy from a puppy mill, just gets under my skin.


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## B1471 (Jan 14, 2021)

Thanks for your reply, what you might want to understand is that something might be obvious to you is not always that simple for someone who is either looking into being a first time dog owner or familiar with the breeding world. Which is the reason why we come to ask for advice. When I hear “reputable breeder” as a person new to this context, the first thing I care about is health issues, because that is what most people warn you about. It is not that I don’t care about the conditions of the dogs they are breeding, but I did not know it was an issue, which is in part why I am asking to be able to do a complete research before making the decision. Usually, I only find generic information, or responses like this thread as to yes on this breeder or not followed by comments about their health checks, but it is helpful to have the specifics (otherwise, I would not know what to look for in other options, so I would depend on asking on this forums, and end up with people being annoyed for the same questions over and over from different people). I am not concerned with waiting for a puppy but I do want to be educated for when there are available pups I know when to pull the trigger or not. Just a little bit of perspective from the other side, I do appreciate you explaining why there are no posts on problems of these dogs. 



texasred said:


> If you want to buy from a puppy mill, you are free to do so. No need to worry about the horrible conditions that these breeding dogs have to live in every day of their life. Or the conditions that your new puppy lived in, before it was bathed and brought to you.
> It's more important that you get a puppy now, than waiting on one from a reputable breeder.
> 
> The reason you don't see people posting about the problem dogs, is they feel duped by the breeder. They release the pup to rescue, or rehome it. They leave the forum, and Vizsla Facebook groups.
> ...


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Huntmore Vizsla, and Regal Point Vizsla are the club breeder referral people for Texas.
They can take the guess work out of choosing a good breeder. 

Vizsla Club of America has a website with good info on what health clearance Vizsla should have.


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## RedHolly (Apr 22, 2021)

texasred said:


> If you want to buy from a puppy mill, you are free to do so. No need to worry about the horrible conditions that these breeding dogs have to live in every day of their life. Or the conditions that your new puppy lived in, before it was bathed and brought to you.
> It's more important that you get a puppy now, than waiting on one from a reputable breeder.
> 
> The reason you don't see people posting about the problem dogs, is they feel duped by the breeder. They release the pup to rescue, or rehome it. They leave the forum, and Vizsla Facebook groups.
> ...


I have been to Prairie Pup Vizsla and have adopted two wonderful Vizsla dogs from them over the last ten years. And, yes, I drove to Hardesty, OK to get them. It’s frankly libel to say they are a puppy mill when you have absolutely no proof. My experiences were excellent. The dogs are of wonderful temperament, healthy and whip smart.

I recommend them.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Just because your experience was different, than most that have purchased pups from them. It does not change the process that other buyers went through. Or the amount of dogs bred by them, that have been placed with rescue.

I'm glad your dogs are healthy, and have a good temperament.


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## RedHolly (Apr 22, 2021)

texasred said:


> Just because your experience was different, than most that have purchased pups from them. It does not change the process that other buyers went through. Or the amount of dogs bred by them, that have been placed with rescue.
> 
> I'm glad your dogs are healthy, and have a good temperament.


It is slander every time you say this, you realize? You don’t have any actual evidence of dogs from there sent to rescue. I have combed this site and others. It’s not there. The two comments that remotely connect don’t even mention the name of the place. All they say is Oklahoma and Prairie, even though there are three breeders in the region that include Prairie in the name. And other buyers - and I have talked to them - have gone through the same process as I have.
Bottom line: unless you have first hand experience - which I do - stop the slandering. I don’t have friendship or business ties to them. What I have is first hand experience over TEN years. They are reputable. They are kind. The dogs have excellent temperament, health and lineage. Look up the breed lines yourself. It’s public information. And Thanks for the compliments on my dogs.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

If you reach out to the Vizsla rescue of Texas, and Oklahoma rescue. You will find they have taken in dogs purchased from this breeder.
Feel free to post your dogs pedigree, and the health clearances of their parents.

I really see no need to keep up the debate.
We are both entitled to our opinions.


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## RedHolly (Apr 22, 2021)

I have. That’s my point. You don’t think I researched before getting my dogs?! What you say isn’t accurate. Call yourself and get the numbers for them and all breeders. Using your logic, any breeder that has had a dog described, returned or rehomed qualifies as Non-reputable.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I don't have to call Vizsla rescue, I speak with them on a regular basis. 
Reputable breeders will take a dog back for its lifetime, for any reason. They do not want dogs bred by them, to go to rescue.

Go ahead and post the health clearances of their breeding dogs.


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## RedHolly (Apr 22, 2021)

texasred said:


> I don't have to call Vizsla rescue, I speak with them on a regular basis.
> Reputable breeders will take a dog back for its lifetime, for any reason. They do not want dogs bred by them, to go to rescue.
> 
> Go ahead and post the health clearances of their breeding dogs.


That is exactly my point. They do take the dogs back. You have never bothered to talk to them. You just talk about them. You just spread rumor. It reduces the value of the Forum and your credibility.


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## RedHolly (Apr 22, 2021)

RedHolly said:


> I have. That’s my point. You don’t think I researched before getting my dogs?! What you say isn’t accurate. Call yourself and get the numbers for them and all breeders. Using your logic, any breeder that has had a dog described, returned or rehomed qualifies as Non-reputable.


Honestly, step back and look at your own posts and open your mind that you may be very wrong. You may even have the breeder confused. I just think it’s best practice to be accurate and not slanderous.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Vizsla Database


Database containing dog pedigrees including thousands of photos. A place for the community of dog lovers worldwide!




www.vizsladatabase.com





It shows their breeding dogs do not even have the minimal health clearances. You can use the registration numbers off the Vizsla database, to search the OFA database.

If your happy with your dogs, I'm happy for you.


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## RedHolly (Apr 22, 2021)

texasred said:


> Vizsla Database
> 
> 
> Database containing dog pedigrees including thousands of photos. A place for the community of dog lovers worldwide!
> ...


Ok - so so glad you put that up. I actually think that document proves my point. Now, your issue is about health clearances, which I did receive along with the contract.
So, for hopefully the last time, this proves for all readers of this thread, that there’s a lot of misinformation on this site. Talk to people who actually have had personal experience - not just hearsay - and have no business interest...


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## Gabica (Jan 20, 2018)

@RedHolly, can you please educate us forum members what other form of breeder health clearance people can search at? i am originally from Europe and so far the only one i have been aware was the OFA one in the US, but always interested to learn. when i search for health records i use the AKC reg ID and the OFA website. some people like me do post back on the vizsladatabase the OFA results as well, some don`t, hence i always relay on the OFA data as it is handled independently.


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## RedHolly (Apr 22, 2021)

Gabica said:


> @RedHolly, can you please educate us forum members what other form of breeder health clearance people can search at? i am originally from Europe and so far the only one i have been aware was the OFA one in the US, but always interested to learn. when i search for health records i use the AKC reg ID and the OFA website. some people like me do post back on the vizsladatabase the OFA results as well, some don`t, hence i always relay on the OFA data as it is handled independently.


I use Florida for example


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## RedHolly (Apr 22, 2021)

RedHolly said:


> I use Florida for example but seems like you have a plan that you like. I’m originally from Cuba, where it is handled individually.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Gabica said:


> @RedHolly, can you please educate us forum members what other form of breeder health clearance people can search at? i am originally from Europe and so far the only one i have been aware was the OFA one in the US, but always interested to learn. when i search for health records i use the AKC reg ID and the OFA website. some people like me do post back on the vizsladatabase the OFA results as well, some don`t, hence i always relay on the OFA data as it is handled independently.


If your dog is already in the Vizsla database, they periodically update heath clearances without you having to ask them.
I was going to have them update Shine's. But when I went to check, it was already updated. 😁
You do have to ask them to add titles.


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## RedHolly (Apr 22, 2021)

Do I mind sharing what?


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## Gabica (Jan 20, 2018)

texasred said:


> If your dog is already in the Vizsla database, they periodically update heath clearances without you having to ask them.
> I was going to have them update Shine's. But when I went to check, it was already updated. 😁
> You do have to ask them to add titles.


that is good to know, i was not aware the OFA health information being added periodically. i have always emailed them about every change


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## Bob Engelhardt (Feb 14, 2012)

RedHolly said:


> Do I mind sharing what?





texasred said:


> [snip]
> Feel free to post your dogs pedigree, and the health clearances of their parents.
> [snip]


You have said how happy you are with your dogs from Prairie Pup, but you have not backed up your claims of their good repute with any references. We will take you at your word that you are happy with your P-P dogs, but anything more is just your opinion without references. I.e., links to the OFA of their breeding dogs. You have not even given your dogs' names for anyone to check their pedigree and OFA of their parents. 

TR's credibility is well established with her 9 years and 8500+ posts on this forum and her involvement with Texas rescue.


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## RedHolly (Apr 22, 2021)

Bob Engelhardt said:


> You have said how happy you are with your dogs from Prairie Pup, but you have not backed up your claims of their good repute with any references. We will take you at your word that you are happy with your P-P dogs, but anything more is just your opinion without references. I.e., links to the OFA of their breeding dogs. You have not even given your dogs' names for anyone to check their pedigree and OFA of their parents.
> 
> TR's credibility is well established with her 9 years and 8500+ posts on this forum and her involvement with Texas rescue.


Actually, you are incorrect. So let me do you a favor: you cannot publish false, damaging statements about anybody as TexasRed has REPEATEDLY done. By libelous action, TR loses credibility and forces review of all those 8500+ posts - quite immediately. In fact, it really impacts even YOUR sudden defense and request for me to add information about my dogs, etc. 

And Bob, I am not selling or showing or breeding my dogs. I cherish my privacy. HOWEVER, I CHALLENGE you - call Prairie Pup Vizsla yourself and get the information directly. Call the rescue organizations directly and get proof that they have rescued dogs that have been refused by Prairie Pup Vizsla as Texas Red has alleged. Post proof that Prairie Pup is breeding dogs with genetic disease as TexasRed has alleged.

This isn’t about me - but nice straw man. This is about TexasRed posting false information about a breeder without proof.

And, btw, asking me about my good dogs makes zero sense.

Call the breeder and rescue directly and get proof.


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## Bob Engelhardt (Feb 14, 2012)

RedHolly said:


> [snip]
> Call the breeder and rescue directly and get proof.


I'm not trying to prove anything & am confident with TR's word. If you want to prove otherwise it's up to you to provide the proof. You don't convince people by telling them to look it up. You provide the proof.


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## RedHolly (Apr 22, 2021)

Bob Engelhardt said:


> I'm not trying to prove anything & am confident with TR's word. If you want to prove otherwise it's up to you to provide the proof. You don't convince people by telling them to look it up. You provide the proof.


Bob, that’s awesome for you. Then, this forum thread is irrelevant to you, isn’t it?

This is for people who are looking up information and need to be informed that the posted information by TexasRed regarding Prairie Pup Vizsla is false and libelous.
It’s meant to help others.

Thanks for your posts. It demonstrates to newcomers that you don’t go to the source and are even kind of threatening.

Folks, if you’re looking at this breeder, just call them. And if you have doubts because of the bs posted by TexasRed, just call the rescues to see it isn’t true. And ask for references.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

A lot of people have been duped, by taking breeders at their word. This is exactly why Vizsla clubs have breeder referrals.
It's also why OFA findings are public, in most cases. You can choose to make failing scores not public. But that has to be noted on paperwork, before the test is submitted to OFA. The Vizsla database is there to help you look up a dogs bloodlines. You can take those finding and search for known problems in the pedigree.
For the last few years, I pull/intake, foster and transport Vizslas for two different rescues in Texas. One is Vizsla only, the other is Vizsla, possible Vizsla mixes, and other sporting breeds.
Our members are free to choose who they want to believe. Hopefully some of the information on this post, shows them how to lookup pedigrees and health clearances. That way they don't have to take someone's word.


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## RedHolly (Apr 22, 2021)

texasred said:


> A lot of people have been duped, by taking breeders at their word. This is exactly why Vizsla clubs have breeder referrals.
> It's also why OFA findings are public, in most cases. You can choose to make failing scores not public. But that has to be noted on paperwork, before the test is submitted to OFA. The Vizsla database is there to help you look up a dogs bloodlines. You can take those finding and search for known problems in the pedigree.
> For the last few years, I pull/intake, foster and transport Vizslas for two different rescues in Texas. One is Vizsla only, the other is Vizsla, possible Vizsla mixes, and other sporting breeds.
> Our members are free to choose who they want to believe. Hopefully some of the information on this post, shows them how to lookup pedigrees and health clearances. That way they don't have to take someone's word.


Well, then, maybe that is what you should have done earlier. Because you certainly didn’t do it before, and I found it very disheartening at best. And libelous at worst.

do better


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

When I finish ROFLMAO I'll lock this thread.


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## RedHolly (Apr 22, 2021)

texasred said:


>


Ummmmmm....0kay, I guess??


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

it would be interesting to see the turnaround on their pups, ie how many pups over say a 5 year period, the pups relative co-efficients, how many times the dam has produced a litter etc etc etc


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