# Gun Shy Dog



## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

The last 9 months I have been training Boris with a good gundog trainer and we have both been really enjoying it. He even won his first novice working trial in June. Training had been progressing very well until a month ago.
Six weeks ago my trainer introduced a hand held launcher with a blank in it. My trainer was about 100 yards away from Boris and I, and I sent the dog as soon as the dummy was thrown. When it went bang, he stopped and looked as if to say what was that and then ran off to retrieve the dummy. The next week, we repeated the same exercise only with the trainer at 50 yards from us. Same reaction. Then I went on a weekend course with a well known trainer and they used a starting pistol to judge the dogs reactions. Again at 100 yards from the dogs. Boris just sat whenever the starting pistol went off showing no signs of worry. Then we progressed to throwing a dummy and firing over the dog at a close range. He started to go retrieve but as soon as he heard the bang he stopped and looked worried. I ran towards the dummy encouraging him and he reluctantly retrieved it. We waited while the next dog went and the whole time Boris was standing up against me - something he never does. No shaking, but he was obviously worried.

I was told to get him out beating so he would learn the association of hunting for birds and gun fire. (He had had a few days out hunting for pheasants.) Well - that didn't go well either. After the second shot he was sitting by my side shaking. I was told - no the dog wasn't gun shy just out of his comfort zone. When we got back to the vehicles he wouldn't leave them and I left him in my car for the last half hour. When I returned he was in the passenger foot well, and didn't come out until we got home.

The thing I find interesting is that here in the UK it is firework season and he is not bothered by them. He may bark at some of the louder bangs, but he is not shaking or hiding away.

Bearing in mind I am a complete novice, has anybody got any suggestion as to how I can desensitise my boy to gunfire? The problem is that I do most of my training on my own, a part from weekly lessons with a trainer and sometimes group sessions with some friends.

You are probably asking why I haven't asked my trainer the above question - because I am not sure what to take as good advise anymore. The last suggestion in my opinion was disastrous!!!

Sorry that this post is so long. Any helpful suggestions will be very gratefully received.


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

Do you have access to birds? What sort of prey drive does the dog have? 
I am not sure what sort of access to birds you have over seas per se, so it's a bit difficult. 

The key element in this, is, that I assume that your boy has prey drive. Correct?


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

when you've been on the pheasant shoots beating H, how far from the guns was Boris? Last season was Ruby's first and I kept her as far away as possible at first and over the season brought her closer and closer. She's never shown any nervousness towards guns at all. I'm not saying I did it right and your trainer got it wrong, it's just the way I was told to do it and it's worked for us. If we make that shortlist of Roy's it will be interesting to hear his take on it.


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

How many guns are we talking about?


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

_When it went bang, he stopped and looked._

This would have been my first indication to go slow with him. I would have changed tactics and used live flushing birds. You need to get him on birds *without * gunfire as soon as possible. After he is bold in the field, pointing and chasing birds, I would start the intro to gunfire over.
If you don't have a helper that can stand 100 yards away shooting blanks on your cue, get a cheap cap gun.
Only shoot the cap gun on every other bird chase, so you can watch for his reaction. If he shows reaction only shoot the cap gun on every third bird. The last thing you want is for him to start to blink on birds.
When fixing a gun sensitive dog, they can do no wrong in the field. Don't worry about how long he is holding point, or if he catches bird. All these things can be fixed later.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I would like to add that your going to need to work him 4-5 days a week. Don't wait to start working him on birds. The longer you wait, the harder it will be for him to overcome it. I like to use pigeons for training, but in situations like this I would use quail. They have a strong game bird smell and are more exciting to the dogs.


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

You start this much younger then read and printed :

but I ;D : goggled it

We take are pointers out on Wild Birds Remote with 2 proven studs Cleaners at least 500 wild birds kills

the Pup is held back

The pup watches all actions

He or she watches it all and processes some

and this is Real Hunting 

like food choices we are educators For Reds. 



The 1st dance was wings and much more with a pellet gun

and we advanced to a cap gun

never much liked a 22 rifles on pups unless weak loads and shorts  for Bullet choices

them are sharp

a young mate a 410 can help with very light loads as well

after some Graduation process has started

every DNA move is rewarded day one to becoming a Bird Stacker thrill killer and Yes are mates are show off some ;D

each 10 days you raise the bars and demands scent birds products raw real can help some

But a real bird Doggy Dog Gun Bird dog Guide, Handler trainer is a core risk ditch digger and examples all of his hard earned skill sets for the pup with at least 20 dogs under his or her belt

with a tested track record 

a very few could be great

truth must are fine c graders which is fine

You having some fun

none can steal 

will have the keys to upland greatness for you and Your Pointer.

If they are shy to bang bang bring back in the stud

each process a-z is rewarded for the Stud and the pup

Pre Hunting Proven DNA at hunting camps if you pup comes from these will help some as well 

at 8 weeks I have **** Bird wings in there mouths.

So many examples to becoming a Red Thunder britches

Birds very young help skills do as well and the ability of your personal skill set to be matching to the pup growing abilities 


Most 3 inchers ;D don't want to admit they failed due to choices they applied there trail mix was weak 

not the pups 

the Pup in most cases will make a extension of your provided skills a part of your arms and eyes and the trails you earned and exceeded not read 

matters more if You gained them and gave them with a Red over a ship out

ship and pay is fine

Trust respect and love and the pre set rules are keys with Reds and having some fun

There soft if your a bully them and they can be over loaded and over processed

Key words matter

Your demands your body and hand and reactions matter 

There a fine uplander if the correct keys were blessed

as each step must be earned

Most is a choice you exceed not a chance

The Big 10" inch ;D

The stackers paddy KO wackers ;D 

These next Real Pictures raw wild remote no roads

This Jenney call me Craig was brought to me

she would not hunt a drop

she would hunt shoes and potato chips ;D

Her fat sister worse

a Fat golden.

We camped remote

I kicked out all

day 12 I made the call

Cory come and get you chubby girl and baby sis 

she stacks ducks like cord wood 

and is know a c grader on **** birds and quail 

She just needed some keys a core and a giving fastball

The mate died the next year

She ate a rock at there beach cabin

but 10 days 16 hour days

we exampled a hunter and proved it WITH REAL PICTURES Not Copies Blogs Bores and fakes ;D ;D

Give more then You get

gain some Passions

life is a risk


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

Yes he has been on birds (in hind sight probably not enough) quail and pheasants. He has a strong hunt drive, especially for deer and pheasants. 

He was probably 200 yards from the guns on the shoot, and once about 50 yards, only one gun at a time as it was a training day. I see where you are all coming from on this. I agree I should have started a lot earlier with his training but wasn't particularly interested in training a gundog till I saw him working a corn field that someone had thrown a dead bird into 10 minutes earlier. The situation is what it is and I just need to go forward. This past weeks he has not wanted to go off hunting, he sticks close to me so I have been throwing rabbit skin dummies and duck all over the place to wind him up, which seems to be working as today he was off hunting again.

Working him 4/5 days a week wouldn't normally be a problem, but I am leaving for Australia in 2 weeks and won't be back for 6 weeks, so do I crack on with birds over the next two weeks or leave it till I get back?

D - I have my fingers crossed for Roy's course as it will do him the world of good to hunt on grouse moors - apparently they have a very strong smell, in fact someone said they stink!!!! Lets hope we both get on the course. However, I might have a very unsteady dog by then.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

The next two weeks I would just work on making the field a good place for him again, like you have been. Getting him on some birds wouldn't be bad either. If he is comfortable carry a gun with you, but don't shoot.
I would save the all gun training till you get back.


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

http://leerburg.com/flix/player.php/1078/Qamp;A_with_Ed_Frawley_About_Correcting_Puppies/

Again one Mans words many respect

each ditch has a side to climb out and exceed the norm

and make a pointer great or duller


a hired Gunslinger for Less

age 9 my pressed family choice I though a gift

was raise , feed and care with great pride and hunt 3 great Brits 1 male 2 girls from this very Real Kennel we had and pups and Mom and the foods/ birds rabbits and more I earned help the harder winter months as well

Each day on the hunt His words get great or get hungry or go Home and they restricted my shell output as well to 12 shots a day

Skipper went on the Male to be a great Brit and Hunted hundreds before he passed

A few teachers claimed abuse even these pre early years 

I claimed

I was just having some fun 

The earned Risks real raw remote matter so much more 

I was also in charge of all raising of all Pheasants by age 11 and there cares

note the pic supplied with the real words  all Wild Birds wanted into my natural setting pens 

them hens made the boys a tad froggy ;D


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## MeandMy3 (Feb 27, 2013)

Hi,
Our oldest lab has shown signs of gun/noise shyness to the point that the second the gun or dummy launcher was out, she was shaking so bad her teeth were chattering. I was dreading taking her out in the field this year - one, because I didn't want her to feel so traumatized, and two - I didn't want it to rub off on our other dogs. It was our first season in the field with our V. My husband loaded the vehicle with the dogs and guns and off we went. When it came time to get out of the vehicle, she was the first one out. She was the best hunter this year too. 
After the hunt was over, my husband got out the dummy launcher to show some friends. Our lab ran back to the vehicle and laid on the floor and shook. We put the launcher away and she was fine. It is times like these that I wish they could talk.
Good luck!


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

It is time 2 go back 2 basics - reintroduce to birds - 6 quail locked wings & the not a pup can do no wrong IE fun - when the not a pup is happy with that - gently introduce the gun - this is why I introduce my pups at 9wk to birds - they like them the next week introduce 2 gun - never 2 young 2 learn - dead bird drills with pheasent wings - with V's - a lot of praise goes a long way - sorry 2 say this may take a year - a lifetime with pointers - my pups run to the bang - that is where the birds R - take it slow - birds - birds - this is what they were bred 4 - get your teenager back on POINT - a big mistake 2 use a launcher till the pup is totally happy with a BANG !


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

I get it, birds and more birds - no bangs - more birds. Will do.

There is no hurry to get him out on a shot, for me this is about training.

Thank you all for your positive advise and suggestion.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Hot - let me add - as U start over again 2 birds - make it just U & the pup with no distractions - alone in the field - this is when the pup learns he is hunting 4 U - it works !!!!!!


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## huntvizsla (Jun 8, 2013)

I am embarrassed to say - I had a similar experience, but the path to a solution did not involve birds. I won't go into the details of what was done to mess up a promising young dog who WAS bird crazy, but lets say it includes a manual clay thrower. Anyway, we ended up teaching the dog that all shooting is good via primo treats. This took me one week, doing once a day, with a pup that had a severe man-made gunshyness problem. :-[

This takes two people to do. The shooter stands 100 yards away (far enough that the shot is barely heard). Handler has a handful of PRIMO treats (cut up ham, steak, chicken) with the pup on a leash and in the heel or sit position. Shooter lets off a shot. The shot should be far enough away that pup does no more than raises its ears, then the handler immediately dishes out a bite of treat. The pup should be completely focused on the handler with little or no attention paid to the shooter. If there is little or no reaction shooter takes two giant steps forward and the sequence is repeated. Shooter/handler continue this excersize till pup shows a bit of uneasiness at which point the shooter takes two giant steps BACK, and the shot/treat sequence is repeated a few times until pup ignores the shooter, then stops there for the day. Do this once a day for however many days it takes to get pup completely comfortable around the shots occuring 20 yards away. 

At this point what I did was transition the treats from me to the shooter. Once a shot was fired the pup was called to the shooter and a treat dished out. 

Things to remember are: always stop and back up when uneasiness is shown. Lavish the praise when pup shows NO reaction and is focused on handler and treats. Do all these sequences in the same physical location - you know its going well when pup gets excited when you are setting up for the excersize. Let the pup see you prepare for the excersize (cut up meat, get shells and gun ready, pull out leash) so they build anticipation of all the goodies to come. Once you are successful (pup runs to shooter looking for treat) move to a different location and repeat. NO treats or praise should be given if pup has a negative reaction - simply ignore the behavior and have the shooter back up until the pup is comfortable again. 

After pup is happy around the noise then I went back to birds and shooting and of course eliminated the treats.

This process allowed the pup to sort out its noise issues without having the opportunity to continue to make bad association between birds and sound. Its an approach that worked for me - maybe it would for you?

This pup - Mojo - was a hunting machine in his short life - earned a UT P1 at 2 1/2 years old and we had two great years out west and in WI woods with him, but sadly we lost him to cancer at 3 1/2 years old. We miss him still.


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