# Rattlesnake Vaccine



## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

So, Oso is going to snake avoidance training this weekend and they are offering Rattlesnake vaccinations there. They will have a vet tech on duty to administer to the dogs of interested parties. I assume you get the booster shot later at your own vet. 

Living in California, my husband and I have come across rattlesnakes when hiking 3 or 4 times in the last five years and pre-Oso we didn't even hike that often. I think rattlesnake training is important, but am always so scared of vaccinations. Oso has shown zero reaction to vaccinations in the past, but we have a cat who got seriously ill after each vaccination and then again after going on medicine for worms. Obviously, the cat doesn't get vaccinations or even medicine anymore, just homeopathic stuff. Luckily, he barely gets sick

Anyways, this is the information I found on the vaccination

VACCINATION FAQ (LOOKS LIKE THE SITE COULD BE FROM THE COMPANY PRODUCING THE VACCINE?)
http://rattlesnakevaccinefordogs.com/faqs.html

VACCINE SAFETY AND POTENTIAL SIDE EFFECTS
http://rattlesnakevaccinefordogs.com/segC_trans.html

ONLINE DISCUSSION ON RANDOM SITE (HAS SOME REAL HORROR STORIES IF YOU SCROLL DOWN)
http://www.covemountainkennels.com/rattlesnake-vaccine/

Has anyone in CA, AZ, TX, etc. given the rattlesnake vaccination to their V? The man who recommended me to the snake avoidance training says he does this with all his dogs, as do the organizers of the event. Until finding the covemountainkennels site, everything looked good. I am leaning towards getting Oso the vaccination, but would like to hear your experiences/opinions.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Mine have gotten the shot every year and so far they have not had any side effects. I have heard from some people that their dog did get a small painless lump that went away on its own at the injection site.
I often wondered how well they work. A guy on a hunting forum had one of his dogs get bit by a rattler. The dog was rushed to the vet but died under the vets care. He got the vaccine for the rest of his dogs. Two months later he had a second dog get bitten. He said the difference was amazing. The second dog was taken to the vet too, but was up and getting around by the next day. My vet charges $20 for the shot. I think that's pretty cheap insurance. We also do the avoidance training.


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## SkyyMax (Apr 5, 2012)

We have done the snake avoidance clinic, never done this before, so did not know what to expect.
The avoidance training took 5 minutes (!) per dog. The rattlesnake was placed in 2 different locations a few feet apart, neither of our dogs wanted to get close to the snake to begin with (they were afraid of the sound), they were shocked with e-color one time at each location. The trainer assured they will never get close to the snake again, I am not that optimistic.
Anyway, both dogs were at the vet next day for the vaccine. Yesterday they had second rattlesnake booster, Skyy still has a lump from the first shot (the size of a walnut), but Max is fine.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

You may want to check into a different avoidance trainer.
The dogs should learn the sight (snake in the open with rattlers quite), smell ( snake hidden under brush) and sound of these snakes should be avoided at all cost. That would be hard to teach with only two snakes. 
Next the dog has to think that the stimulation came from the snake so timing is everything. Dogs also need a refresher course each year till they show that they avoid snakes on their own at a clinic. I don't like to see a trainer that shocks a dog that is avoiding the snake.


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Sorry to hear about the subpar experience of the training, Skymax. I'll have to let you know how ours goes on Saturday. 

This person came highly recommended and I believe they do scent, smell and sight and have at least 3 different snakes including the Mojave Green which the vaccine doesn't cover. His name is Robert Kettle. That being said, I think it's still only 10-15 minutes per dog. 

Kind of crazy when we are driving an hour and a half to get there and paying $65. If it works, it's worth it though! 

I think we are going to go ahead with the vaccine, although those horror stories definitely gave me pause and still scare me a bit. TexasRed, thanks for sharing your experiences. If your dog does get bit and this saved his life it would be worth it for sure. Where we live the chance of snakebite is probably higher than any side effect.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I think RBD had a write up on his blog over this subject.
If I didn't know the trainer I would watch him do the training with some of the other dogs before he did mine. If I wasn't happy with what I saw I would leave with my dog.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Intellectual Property removed by Author.


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## SkyyMax (Apr 5, 2012)

Luv2laugh - I would like to hear about your experience with the training.
It's wonderful that your dog will be trained to avoid 3 different kind of snakes!
I am grateful neither Max or Skyy had a bad reaction to the vaccine.

TexasRed, the trainer had only 1 rattlesnake, and it was moved from one spot to another (it was buzzing non-stop), I think both of our dogs will avoid the sound, but scent... They were at least 4 feet away from the snake and did not get closer.
I did watch a lady with a pit bull before our session - she was very happy. Her dog was oblivious to the snake and flew up in the air after being shocked. Pit bull did not even get to 2nd snake placement - he took off, dragging the owner.
My fault for not knowing what to expect/ research the subject, I found out about the training a day prior.
We take the dogs every weekend out in the country and I understand we can't proof the dogs against every snake (including corral, copperhead, cottonmouth - we are in TX)....


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

The guy we use normally has cotton mouths too. What part of Texas? I can let you know when they are having an avodance training day in your area for next time.


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## SkyyMax (Apr 5, 2012)

Thank you TexasRed - we are close to DFW.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

SkyyMax said:


> Thank you TexasRed - we are close to DFW.


 He is on one of the same hunting forums as me.
I'll let you know when he starts posting some locations near you.
http://www.snakebreaker.com/

You know you have a few vizslas that hunt living close to you.
SniperJohn on this forum.
Chris Sparks lives in Priddy Tx, he is a Chairman of NSTRA.
Brian in Benbrook Tx guides upland hunts with vizsla.


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Hi SkyyMax, wanted to give you a quick update on the snake avoidance training (Oso did get the vaccine and have had no side effects)

There were 12 snakes, divided among three cages. Although the cages were spaced apart from each other, they were fairly close together. I would have liked it if they were a little more separate. 

We were a distance away, but I believe the first box was uncovered so Oso could see the snakes. After the first shock (he yelped, Bob Kettle said he only needed to use 2s and 3s), Oso didn't want anything to do with the snakes. Bob was adamant that he did not shock until Oso actually looked at the snakes. He said eye contact is key and he was watching Oso like a hawk. He reiterated that Oso could have been right next to the snake, but if he didn't look and his "mind wasn't on the snake," he didn't get a shock.

I believe for the scent and sound portions he just had to look towards the scent (or possibly move his nose, I don't know) or look towards the sound?. The scent cage was covered. The sound cage was covered and it looked like Bob kicked it or did something to make the snakes rattle. We heard a sound.

At the end, I called Oso to me from across the snakes. He ran all the way around the snakes past me to my husband who was further away. They then let him settle down in a crate for 15 minutes. 

The whole training portion lasted less than 10 minutes. Like you, I was unsure if it would work, but everyone else assured me it would. From testimonials on the web, it sounds like this is enough for the dogs to get it and this is mainly what snake avoidance training is composed of. 

Either way, Oso was a happy guy by the time we got to the car. I was under the impression that we would be able to walk by the snakes with Oso and observe his body language when he smelled, heard or saw a snake. They didn't do this portion though and they just told us every dog acts differently, but it will be atypical, scared behavior. 

We saw three vizslas there and felt we did the best we could to get Oso exposed.

Here is a horribly shot video of part of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yal2iJfJ2ZQ&list=UUBiWO3i_k7AKEpski0WZsuA&index=1&feature=plcp


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Being a farmer as I grew up, losing dogs to snakes was common. We taught all our dogs to avoid anything reptilian from the day they came home. 

My three will point a reptile now but will not approach it. I can tell when they are on a reptile, as the point rocks back and forth. I've posted a pic preciously of a big Red Bellied Black snake which Astro pointed for me. They know to give them all a wide birth. 

How I do it, is expose them to whatever reptiles I can get my hands on and use the leave it command. Reward when they leave it. It takes time, but it's a must here in Oz if you do any bush work as we don't have vaccines for our snakes......


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