# Approaching Other Dogs



## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Hi Everyone,

Our adorable Oso loves meeting dogs at the park. He knows he needs to sit before he is allowed to play with the other dog (while I ask the owner if the dog is friendly). Once I say, "ok," he lunges towards the dog and either starts to frantically lick the other dog on the face and depending on the other dog's reaction starts to play with them. If the dog is well socialized (at least in my opinion) he will stand still while Oso licks him all over in a submissive posture or will start playing with Oso.

We have come across a lot of fearful dogs lately and Oso doesn't seem to respond to their "scared" cues. I easily pull him away (he's still tiny), thank the people and go on our way. My mom's dog, a Senior Citizen pomeranian, is one of those timid dogs. She says most dogs come over and sniff her dog's butt and she's never seen a dog be crazy excited like Oso. 

At the park, a woman with a Senior Rhodesian Ridgeback told me there's a "crazy" vizsla that comes to that park who jumps on her dog and hurts his back. She said he was like Oso, but big. Anything I can do to help Oso with this?

He goes to puppy playtime 3x a week and is in obedience classes with other dogs too. We are working on "leave it," but he hasn't mastered it yet. I just wouldn't want him to miss out on meeting other dogs (which he loves) when he's older because I didn't teach him something appropriately now. 

Any tips?


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Reading between the lines in your post, what I say next is not meant to be derogatory, but you need to relax. 

It doesn't sound like you or the other owner is allowing the dogs to work out each other. Dogs can take some time to get to know each other. Sometimes, it can appear to be a little uncomfortable for either you, or the other owner, depending on which dog is exerting initial dominance. I find, that by letting them work it out (Unless a dog is actually aggressive and not just boisterous) by themselves, they tend to start to get along, or alternatively ignore each other, very quickly. The more human intervention, the more unnatural the interaction will be. 

Having said that, it also appears you are interacting with people who don;t have a fantastic grasp on K9 behaviour. If so, find some more knowledgeable owners to play with. Sensitive owners cause more issues than they avoid. 

Vizslas in general are a little boisterous in there play. Some owners really think they are hurting there dog. They arn't. But it's hard to tell people that. I find that warning the other owners that it will appear as though my dog is ripping yours apart and my dog will make loud noises which sound like growling, but are just play noises. Then, some owners will persevere, ending up watching the dogs happily play together, relieved that the big viscous Vizsla hasn't ripped apart there poor defenceless Rotweiller.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

On leash my dog jumps and is anxious. Off leash is entirely different and I think is safer and I don't need to worry or interfere. 


It depends on the signals they give each other. Some dogs don't know how to communicate and can get in trouble. Good reason not to separate the puppy from mother too early when born. 
http://www.canis.no/rugaas/onearticle.php?artid=1


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

*luv2laugh*, from my experience, dogs at parks/dog parks are not always the best for my Sophie to play with. Not because all dogs are bad, but because the owners don't really know their dogs. Also, there are some people who bring dogs to the dog park as their only energy outlet - not a good idea.

My Sophie used to be extremely submissive. She would meet a dog, roll over and pee on herself. So, when we first started interacting with other dogs and went to dog parks, she would just walk in and roll right over on her back while other dogs were sniffing her. I never told other dog owners to get their dogs off Sophie as I wanted her to see for herself that it's OK. Then she would get up and start playing with no problems. Now after lots of socialization work, she has no problems approaching other dogs. If a dog doesn't want to play with her and does a little growl, she backs off, and I don't tell the other dog owner - oh, your dog is aggressive. You have to let dogs communicate in their own ways. We humans see things completely different. 

Unfortunately, many people WILL think that Vizslas are crazy dogs, especially when they are young and energetic, and there is nothing you can do about it. What you can do is find the right dog that matches Oso to play with. Sophie's best playmate is a GSP, Mia. Mia is even faster than my girl! After an hour of non-stop running, they wear each other out. They pull each other's ears, growl, show teeth (that's a funny look actually), nip ankles, and they're doing this all while going 100 mph ;D ...but it's all play, and we have never had to separate them


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Luv2laugh,

Keep it up. Oso sounds like he is getting quite a bit of socialization and that is a great thing. You might have followed many threads that talk about dog parks. Most comments are that they can be good socialization tool to use for the pup. When Oso gets bigger and has Vizsla crazy drive kick in Oso will start getting "in trouble" for playing too rough. Well that's how Vizslas play. We quit going to dog parks 2 years ago. Chloe could care less about the other dogs. She just wanted to play retrieve the ball and Bailey was getting mugged by other dogs. It was time to move on.

Fast forward to today. We have done so much walking over the last 4 years that both Bailey and Chloe don't NEED to meet every dog or person we come across. They have each other and me as they run through the hills or the fields. It takes a lot of time and energy to get to this spot. In a couple hours a Vizsla owner is driving 50 miles to take a walk with us in the hills. I have never met "Hunter" or his owners but Vizslas learn best how to relate to other dogs by relating to their own (or the likes of the GSP) than with terriers, collies, bulldogs, or the like. So Hunter's owners contacted me last week to see if they could join us for a walk. Hunter is about 1 year old. Of course I told them sure and we set up to meet at one of our favorite walking areas. 

Try and form a walking club for sporting dogs. Four or five "pointing" breed dogs running off-leash is not only great for Oso but also a pleasure for us humans to watch and be part of. This is where you will see Oso "come alive." Vizsla Walk is a Yahoo Group. The group walks almost every Sunday morning in the SF Bay Area. We have had as many as 30 Vizslas running happily through the woods or along the beach. Ages from 4 months to 12 years old. Most walks are about 10 dogs.

Good luck as always. Remember, a Vizsla is not dog; it is a lifestyle.

RBD


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Great comments Suliko. I agree wholeheartedly with all your comments. The comment about on or off lead introductions is spot on. I don't like meeting other dogs while they are on leads. Other dogs tend to become more aggressive when left on lead at an intro. I prefer to let them off and work it out. I know it's no harder to separate them if it be on or off lead. So why bother with the leads.

RBD, I found the same with all my dogs at the puppy park. Great for initial socialisation as a puppy, but once they get to about 9 or 10 months old, they get bored with the dogs there. Ezpecially, when I do as you do and take them bush walking daily. I have taken mine to the puppy park a few times in the last few weeks and they were very disinterested both times. they played for maybe ten minutes when we first got there, then they cam and hung around with me. Not really interested in the other dogs. I ended up having to take them down to the lake after the puppy park both times as they were just not worn out yet. Once we arrived at the lake the dogs went mad, ran, swam, played and chased the ducks all with me and they were happy and content.


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## AfroViz (Jun 26, 2011)

All you need is a good recall really. Vizsla's are going to be rough and bouncy and boisterous and that won't always be appropriate for all playmates. If I feel like an owner or a dog is getting upset I just call Avery away and we move on. I find that owners tend to be very understanding and appreciative when you can demonstrate that sort of control over your dog.

I agree whole-heartedly with the suggestions that you find a Gundog play/walk group for Oso. Avery mainly plays with Pointers and Field Spaniels and we never have any trouble because they all play the same way. I do like to expose my dogs to a variety of breeds however. We have a great off-leash park nearby with a couple of dams and it's a good opportunity for my dogs to learn how to interact with playmates who set different boundaries.


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Thanks for your responses. I liked the link datacan. Oso is fine off leash. He seems to pick up the cues of other dogs and just run in the other direction. Also, the dogs there seem to be interested in other dogs and better socialized (at least at the dog beach I took him too)

The dogs we have problems with are found when walking in suburban parks. The tend to be smaller, less socialized and on leashes. It sounds like I may not really be able to shape Oso's behavior too much in this realm, but make sure he has a strong recall or leave it and maybe not make a habit of stopping to ask every owner if their dog is friendly and wants to play. I'll look around for an active gun dog group in our area. Our vizsla group isn't active. We are in the Los Angeles area. I'm slowly finding people whose dogs like to play with him. I really want him to be able to walk/run with a pack, so I'll try to figure it out.


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## Scorpio (Jun 14, 2011)

hi afroviz....can you recommend any ideas for recall? Nelson is 8 months now and his recall when he is off leash in any open area is terrible! He does eventually come back if he thinks ive gone missing (ive tried hiding to see what he does!), however when he sees other dogs he gets so excited and will not listen when i ask him to come back. This wouldnt normally worry me but the other day he was off leash and we passed a small dog on a leash and Nelson started to play and the dog got very upset. I tried to call him back but he ignored me and although he wasnt hurting the other dog in any way the owner became very abusive (i personally did not feel his dog had been socialised properly for it to react like that) however i was really upset because he accused me of being unable to control my dog. Also Nelson is very big and other owners just presume he is trouble.


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

Scorpio
My 7 month old is bad as well if off lead with other people or dogs around. He too last week scared a dog that didn't want to play with him and I also got an ear bashing from the owner. You are right that their dog isn't socialised but also I guess our pups aren't either. 
I asked our trainer on how can improve his recall and she suggested going to a very busy park with lots of other dogs and childern and keep our pup Mac on a long lead. When you can tell he is distracted blow the whistle or do the come command and wait 3 secs. If he doesn't come back then do a correction to snap the distraction out of him and blow the whistle again. She recommended doing this many many times until he is more solid on the whistle.


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## Scorpio (Jun 14, 2011)

Hi. Thank you for your help. I guess you are right about the training. Its hard getting it right but we will keep trying!!! Nelson gets far more compliments than negative stuff so I shouldn't panic I guess. Will def try the whistle. Thanks again.


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## kristen (Oct 18, 2011)

Odin had a run in at the park last week with a pup that just wouldn't leave him alone. We thought we'd let the dogs work it out, but Odin got mad, hackles up and teeth bared, then ran and hid under a picnic bench. Today I took him to High park, and he was scared to meet the other dogs (froze in place, no tail wagging) then I guess when he felt it was okay, he lunged at the dog kind if tacking them and wanting to play. It was very strange behavior. Off leash he was a bit better, but still scared and not his usual tail wagging happy to see everyone self. Any ideas? (hes 4.5 months, intact)


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

kristen said:


> Odin had a run in at the park last week with a pup that just wouldn't leave him alone. We thought we'd let the dogs work it out, but Odin got mad, hackles up and teeth bared, then ran and hid under a picnic bench. Today I took him to High park, and he was scared to meet the other dogs (froze in place, no tail wagging) then I guess when he felt it was okay, he lunged at the dog kind if tacking them and wanting to play. It was very strange behavior. Off leash he was a bit better, but still scared and not his usual tail wagging happy to see everyone self. Any ideas? (hes 4.5 months, intact)


I think other dogs teach our own more than we can, but at a certain point it's out job to step in and take control of the situation so that our own dogs know that we're there to protect them if need be. I've been in a similar situation a few times with my girl, and since it isn't my job, or right, to discipline another persons dog, all I do is get between them and leash mine. It may not always be fair, as at times it has been the other dog being a jerk, but she isn't allowed to fight and she was the jerk plenty of times as a pup...  

As far as your next trip to the dog park, you have to pretend that he didn't get upset or mad or scared the last time you were there. Dogs feed off our energy and if you feel anxious, so will he. I know it is easier said than done, but it is important.
You can try a smaller park tomorrow, or an on-leash walk through the park, meeting friendly dogs to reintroduce other dogs as great fun. Once he seems happy again, go back to the off-leash at High Park. These guys do play rough so you don't have to jump in every time they wrestle, but if another dog is bullying him, try what you can to get between them so your dog knows you're there for him. Also, if he is being a jerk, step in and let him that it is not ok. 
They tend to get themselves in trouble because of their sheer insanity at that age!


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## kristen (Oct 18, 2011)

Thanks for the advice Mischa. We stayed to the smaller parks, and are building back his confidence. As the weather has been worse, we've found the dogs at our local off leash to be a lot more socialized and nicer players. We were out today in -15 weather, and it was just us and one other pup at the whole park. Odin had a great play time and both dogs behaved and played nicely.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

HANDLING ON LEASH AGGRESSION
by Suzanne Clothier​
"Perhaps one of the most embarrassing behavior problems is a dog who acts aggressively on leash, whether towards dogs, other animals or people. Often these dogs do not exhibit any aggression when off leash. Though puzzling to owners, the difference between off leash and on leash behavior offers a clue to the problem as well as the solution. Recognize that on leash aggression always involves unintentional signals from the owner which create a vicious cycle. Here's how:

At some point, usually in adolescence, the dog growls, barks, lunges at or snaps at a dog or person. The owner is surprised and embarrassed, and not sure what to do. If not handled correctly, the dog may persist in this behavior and get worse over time.

Understandably, the owner begins to anticipate any situation which might trigger this behavior. Spotting an approaching dog or person before the dog does, the owner tightens up on the leash so he can control the dog better, stiffens his own body posture and holds his breath. The dog notices the change in the leash tension, the owner's body posture and breathing, and begins looking to see what has the owner so worried, and once he spots it, begins his aggressive behavior.

Did you know that the first step in attack training is to give the dog something or someone he wants
to get to, while using a tight lead and tense body posture to excite the dog into a more aggressive state? In the case of on leash aggression, the owner actually makes the situation worse without meaning to, and the dog simply responds to signals received from the owner."

Rest of article below link:

http://www.suzanneclothier.com/the-articles/handling-lead-aggression


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

I also believe, as an opinion, that the size of the dog is directly proportional to the training it receives. With the odd exception of course. But mostly, I see small dog owners who totally lack any understanding of their dog. Or any dog for that matter. They think because it's small, they do not need training. Imagine us not training one of our large dogs??? Eeek! 

I had a go at a small dog owner just last week. It watched while the small dog nipped at me. I was bending down with one of my dogs when this happened and he caught me off gaurd and nipped the heel of my hand. I did just catch him at the last minute and thus it never broke the skin. But as I pointed out to the owner, if that was a large dog, people would be screaming dangerous dog. What's the difference. The dog bites and size isn't relevant. Meh...I'm over dog parks, my dogs get totally bored there now. They'd rather be chasing birds and kangaroos. I took them there yesterday and they played for 5 minutes before coming and giving me the let's go signal. (Sitting at my feet) So we went to the lake instead. Much better fun. 

But, I'm not suggesting that you don;t take your pup to a park. I think it was a great socialisation tool. I still go maybe once a week just to keep that up. I think when they were younger it was invaluable to teach them social behaviour. Just mine are a bit over it now. Maybe yours will too at some stage, or already are.


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