# how to stop her chasing birds and birds?



## Chilli monster

we started gundog training with Chilli (she is 13 months now), a bit late, but we are non hunters couple so never thought about it earlier...

I was doing basic gundog training with her based on books and dvd's but now we are attending training days with our local club once a month, we are between trainings now.

Few days ago i took Chilli for a walk on near fields and when were going back to the car she spotted a little baby rabbit and as she was off the leash she went after him...
whistle didnt work, shouting didint work.. she grabbed him and and few seconds later i managed to grab her, she dropped the little one.., so i took her on side and told her off properly for her behaviour...

Now i have doubts if this was the right thing to do when we training her to be a gundog...

She shouldnt chase any game, but also i do not want to put her off game...

How to react in situation like this...???

Any help will be appreciated...


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## kellygh

It seems like "telling her off" for not listening is the right thing to do, but what do I know? Like you I am reading, asking, getting involved with V folk who know a lot more than me (Gunnr on this board), but from an instinctual level, I would have responded the same way. I would have responded w/ a correction not because of the game chasing, but because she was not listening. From what I gather, adolescence is at your front door and said to be full of rebellion with many Vs in the 2nd yr. From previous experience, not with a V, it is hard to ask a dog to turn prey instinct on & off. Growing up, we had a Brittany spaniel (we did not train her) who was an obedient superstar in the field, but that came with dead presents for us at the door nearly everyday of her life. Squirrels, birds, rodents, and even a kitten once :'( Maybe some of your club members will have some better suggestions when you meet next? Good luck. Pumpkin is constantly hunting the tweets at our house. She can't pee without 1st stalking the bushes ;D


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## Linescreamer

Tracking and picking up game is what an HPR does. I suggest you consult your trainer and not folks on this board. These dogs need proper training to hunt; and if you indeed want him to hunt, you will need to know how these situations should be handled. The last thing you want is a hunting dog to think you don't want him on game.


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## gunnr

Chili is still very young, and "slips" will happen. Rabbits in particular seem to fascinate Vizslas.

Chili will naturally put her nose to the ground and seek. It's just her nature. Vizlsa also have some "coursing" genes, meaning they will run an animal down it's back trail to locate it,and can actually be trained to bring down smaller mammals like deer. They can do it very effectively.
Realizing this though is only one part of the equation. Studying the patterns and habits of prey animals is another. 
Deer move in straight lines, along "lanes". These lanes are invisible to the untrained eye, but once you learn what to look for you can easily spot them in the woods. Some lanes are "Master Trails" and they are like deer highways. If Chili takes off hot in a straight line through the brush, it's an odds on bet that she's scenting deer.
Rabbits move in a circular rotating pattern. Rarely in straight lines for very long. If her head goes to the ground and she starts running in a circular pattern, back and forth while moving in a general direction, she's probably pottering rabbits.

Turkeys move with a purpose in a zig zag pattern that appears straight, but really isn't. 

Upland birds move in an indiscriminate manner on the ground,and almost always in edge cover. They will fly and land and move around like a chicken, If Chili's nose goes down and she stays tight going back and forth she's probably on bird scent.

The key is to recognize what she's most likely after and stop it before she gets too far along.

Should you reprimand her for going after rabbits. Yes you should for two reasons;
One she didn't listen and two you may not want her to hunt rabbits. I don't like mine hunting rabbits or deer, so I "break" them to those two animals. It's unproductive and annoying.

How to do it is the key, and that's why you will need to recognize what she is probably after and stop her as soon as possible and move her off. 
It's not easy and it takes time.


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## kellygh

Fascinating!! We are loaded with deer, rabbits, turkey & fox. Pumpkin has been onto a rabbit, but she did not give chase. We were in a field, and I was catching up to the "action." I didn't think to correct her, probably because she did not give chase/was listening, but I can see how being all over every animal is annoying & unproductive. How do you correct this when you do "break" a dog? Pumpkin spends a lot of time with her nose to the ground, in the air, or blowing her checks, but I never thought about what she may be smelling with her body language. I didn't think she liked to track deer, turkey, &/or rabbits, but maybe I was wrong? She does enjoy finding shedded antlers! What about coyote? Do you know how or if a V would react to their scent? We have spotted a small pack a mile or so down the road. They are here for sure. Sometimes you can hear them at night.


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## gunnr

kellygh

It takes time,and contact. Roughing them up won't do it, and will probably result in the dog that won't hunt, or has any desire to continue hunting, that Linescreamer warned about. I've heard of folks introducing dogs to rabbit and deer hides and shocking them when they show interest. I'll pass on that technique, just not my cuppa' at all.
The only thing I do is to continually call them off the wrong scent as soon as I recognize it, and move them into different cover. Sort of get their mind re-engaged. Given time they seem to figure out what it is I'm really out there for.
Last spring Gunnr took off like a shot in a straight line up a hill, and sure enough right at the top in a little depression were two young deer. They moved before Gunnr saw them, but not before I did. We "trained to not run deer that day. How? I brought gunnr from every different direction I could for about 2 hours to that spot. As soon as she showed interest, I called her off, and moved her back into quail. The deer were long gone, but were an effective training aid for that weekend.
Calling both of the girls off rabbits is more difficult. They both get into those evergreens and dead falls and start running their behinds off. I have to kind of run them both down,put them on leashes, and move them away. Gentle corrections to just let them know that I'm not interested. I swear somedays a Beagle has nothing on a Vizsla when it comes to rabbits.


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## kellygh

I'd pass on the shock technique as well! That's terrible I think. I have eliminated 90% of the bird dog trainers in my area based on their belief in force fetch. That's just me. My corrections for P are all based on not listening. A small yank on the collar & repeat the command "come." The ocassions that has not worked, it was not about animals but paper products! P is obsessed with paper products and eats them as if a treat. I find the tracking behavioir very interesting though. Speaking of Beagles...I never knew there were so many Beagle hunting clubs. Wow! There are a ton of them here in Dixie.


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## 19Delta

If it means I could save Strider's life by "shocking" the desire to chase deer in the field, I will. If I recall correctly it is legal for a deer hunter to shoot a dog that is chasing a deer during the fall season. Better a shock now than a 12 ga. slug at some future point along the edge of some corn field. 
The trainer we went to for our gun dog obedience training through NAVHDA (Bill Jenson) brought this topic up and detailed the how and why it is imperative that a gun dog does NOT ever chase deer.

Just my $0.02 worth.

Tim


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## Mercutio

hi guys,

As you know I know nothing about hunting. I'm just curious why deer hunters are allowed to / would need to shoot a dog that is chasing deer?

Over summer the rabbits in our area breed like, well rabbits and stop being scared of anything. At first I had problems with Merc pointing and not wanting to do anything else except stalk rabbits when he saw them. As I have no interest in rabbits and I'd rather he listen to me than them everytime we came across some I'd call him back and reward him for looking at me instead and it seemed eventually he learnt.

However, he was spotted in our yard sleeping whilst rabbits played in the yard so I suspect it wasn't my training but an over abundance of rabbits that did it - he's seen so many now he is completely over it and bored by them......


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## gunnr

19delta

I wasn't actually referring to a controlled enviorment utilizing an eCollar correctly. it's more of put the collar on the dog, introduce the hide, and shock 'em. No progreesion or control element.

As to shooting dogs while chasing deer. You must have some real Swamp Yankee's around, as running deer is legal in some states in the south. However, no one has the legal right to shoot a dog running deer on public access areas, federal and state funded. 
They can be sued and all of the costs associated with getting the dog to that point in it's life can be recovered. There is no pain and suffering or mental distress.
I've run into folks with the same ideas and have to ask them; "Do you really think that you are more upset than the owner of the dog that is chasing deer".

Only a low life would shoot a dog with a bell on it's collar during hunting season
However, You do not want your dog running deer. It really sucks!! and you can lo.se your dog to any number ofi scenarios. Break them of the habit


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## Mercutio

So Gunnr, you're saying that you should train your dog not to chase everything that moves from a safety perspective? I get that, I can see how a dog focussed on something wouldn't see the steam train it was about to be run over by.

Are you also saying that some people shoot dogs chasing animals because they were trying to shoot the animal?

I realise they'd be upset their shot was spoilt but it seems a bit extreme ???

Thanks for the info. I don't hunt but i like hearing about what these dogs are made for.


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## gunnr

Merc'

The specific instance I was referring to was a little different.
My hunting partner had a nice 3 year old GSP that was really a rock star. Big, bold ,powerful. Everything you would want.
One day "Blue" was "chasing a deer" while we were bird hunting. Another bird hunter took it upon himself to "send a little #6", shot pellet size", Blue's way and shot Blue because he was chasing deer. He was very upfront about it.
We got Blue to the Vet and the long and short of it was that the "Swamp Yankee ended up paying about $5K in Vet bills, all of Pete's expenses for that hunting season, including compensating Pete for all of the Vacation he took for hunting season for "Loss of Use". Total was about 10 grand. Blue did recover and was pretty much unfazed about the whole affair.

The sad part is that I brought Boone in the next day, and he took off down the same track Blue did. Blue had actually surprised a bedded down deer while following a blood trail from a deer that was never tracked down. He wasn't actually chasing a deer, but following a wounded deer. Which, ironically enough, is illegal in the state of Connecticut.

Boone also had some rough, but fair, lessons about chasing deer, but it's really being able to have enough control to call your dog off.


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## szalpeter

I think if u teaching your dog reliable steadyness it should help. Its really helpful on any kind of game. Put a dead game or just dried wings or rabbit skin to the line and teach your dog to watch it but dont move when u move it fast.
Or if u have an opportunity to build a 2mx2m fenced area just put a rabbit in it and go into there with ur dog on the lead and make him sit and watch! 
Hope I helped!


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## gunnr

szaltpeter

Every tip, technique and trick helps. You never know which one will work for a particular dog, or situation.


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## kellygh

Yes, an e-collar used correctly can be a very good training tool; however, I do think shocking a dog showing interest in hide is terrible & stand by that/any trainer who uses that "technique." E-collar's have an appropriate, sometimes life saving, use in training, but I see & hear of too many people using them incorrectly or for the "quick fix." Of course deer chasing should not be allowed along with chasing cars, pointing snakes etc, but I or any trainer would not be shocking my dog over sniffing of a hide. 
It would be a low life, for sure, who would shoot at the errant bird hunting dog. The few stories I have heard of this happening have taken place when packs of dog are hunting deer. There is tension between land owners & hunters re: dog hunting rights/tradition. In NC & SC, you will find yourself in trouble if you shoot someones dog. SC has the most generous laws re: dog hunting in the South (dog hunting meaning hunting deer with dogs specifically). No dog specific season, no hunting registration for dogs, & you can hunt them under bow, rifle, muzzleloader, & shotgun (zones 3-6). Most germane is you are allowed to retrieve your errant dog from someones property. VA is another state where you are allowed to retrieve your wayward dog from private property without the land owner's permission. Someone who shoots a V chasing deer on the edge of their corn field has other serious issues not related to their land or hunting turf! That being said, chasing is a "no-no" & should not be allowed. You never know what someone/animal can or will do. An e-collar may be the best method for your dog when used correctly. Pumpkin is frequently exposed to deer, & she has never given chase. Whether it's fear or no interest, she stands firm, but those butteflies are irresistible!


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