# New pup growled at friends kids



## Vizsla13 (Feb 27, 2013)

Hi just after some advice. Indie has been home 3 days now and yesterday I had a couple of friends over to meet her and she was great from the minute they arrived. However today another friend came and she had her two kids with her (2 and 3 yr olds) I tried to get her to come with me to the door but the kids kept knocking on it so she stayed in lounge room on her bed. When the kids came in she went under the coffee table and did a pee and started growling at them!!! My friend went over and knelt down and she came out and was fine with her and then started sniffing kids and was fine after that. I got a couple of treats and got the kids to giver her them. 

Should I be worried? I don't think she's had much interaction with little kids. It's sports day today at my kids school so I'm thinking of taking her along and maybe take some treats for the kids to give her. 

I am totally stressing out with reading everyone else's stories about their problems and I'm so worried the same things will happen with us! 

Here's another pic while I'm on


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Why is the dog not in a crate?

It is stressful for the dog, at this point everything is new and pretty scary... The growl is nothing more than "leave me alone, don't approach" 

At this point a crate is the only place that is safe for the dog.


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

Everybody and everything is all very 'New' to her.....
As data, crate is her only sanctuary at this stage in her development.
It will be some while yet before her trust, security and confidence will reach a level of meeting and greeting new people and experiences.
Have the confidence to take her to the sports day, but try to keep the petting (smoothing by others ) to a minimum as not to overwhelm her. If you feel it's getting too much for her ( sports day), simply bring her home...
Plenty of new experiences like this will only help her with her socialisation and her/your confidence.
Hope this helps
Have fun 

Hobbsy


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## flxstr (Nov 19, 2012)

Take a helper with you to sports day. Sports days are exciting to kids, and that energy will pass to dog, and will be quite overwhelming. Use helper to make sure kids are controlled and take turns versus swarming a scared puppy. Some kids are mean, and do dumb things (just two days ago a 6 year old kicked my dog because it didn't play with her like she wanted).


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## Vizsla13 (Feb 27, 2013)

Well been to sports day found a shady spot and sat down. Kids were coming over but only if they noticed her and there were no more than 2/3 at a time. I was amazed at how many of them asked before just rushing into clap her it was nice to see. Anyway she was perfectly fine waggy tail the whole time and I gave some of the kids a treat to give her. She didn't get over excited just happily lay there getting belly rubs. 

As for why was she not crated! Well I didn't realise that's what I should have done, the whole point of my friend and her kids coming over was to meet her so if she had been in her crate (which is in my bedroom) how should the meeting have occurred from there? I don't see why she should be crated every time someone comes to the house so happy to hear the reasons for this. It's certainly not something I've had to do with previous puppies (are vizslas so different to every other breed!) and as I had said the day before she had been so happy when my two friends came over to meet her the previous day. Her crate may well become a safe haven but she's still getting used to that too! 

I'm more than happy to accept advice from people hence the reason why I come on here. But find it a bit rude the way some people come on and reply in a way that makes you feel like an idiot for not knowing better or not doing something the way they would have. People need to learn how to word things a bit better when trying to give advice!


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

Maybe it was the tender, young age of the kids (2 and 3 years old) that scared Indie, or the repeated knocking on the door. Has she been around kids that young before? I don't think you should panic, because in either case, those are things that you can desensitize her to with repeated exposure and happy endings.


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## Vizsla13 (Feb 27, 2013)

Hi mswhipple I think you may be right about the banging and then two little kids rushing in! I have a 2 year old but other than that I don't think she's been exposed to toddler age children before. I'm sure she'll be fine I'm just a panicker!


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

I understand completely! I'm sure Indie will be fine, too. Kids that young do have a tendency to squeal with delight, which can be scary for a puppy.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Vizsla13 said:


> I'm more than happy to accept advice from people hence the reason why I come on here. But find it a bit rude the way some people come on and reply in a way that makes you feel like an idiot for not knowing better or not doing something the way they would have. People need to learn how to word things a bit better when trying to give advice!


Dear original poster, 

3:56AM, by iPad mini 
(read, autocorrect has a mind of it's own and my dog just woke me up because I let my mom take him for a walk yesterday... And she let him off the lead and let him chew sticks and who knows what else, which he has been vomiting through the day and night)- but your feelings were hurt and don't care, right?



*Please accept my deepest apologies, for the way I answered. It was not my intention to hurt your feelings or belittle you. 
Hope you dog did not suffer from the way I answered. I only tried to administer a quick dose of knowledge to stabilize the situation ASAP.
*
Question, did your dog benefit from my answer, or it was the message ignored because of the way I answered?
Again, I deeply apologize... You see, I care about your dog and if a long apology on my part is what it takes to improve your dog's position, more than happy to oblige. 

Having spent time on the forum, I came to a realization, people skip reading long winded answers.... And many of us are hammering away at mobile deceives over wireless connections, in some cases. 

Back to the predicament your dog is in... If I may make a few suggestions:
1....Dr. Ian Dunbar has spent a lifetime researching and training dogs of all sorts. 
"Sirius dog training", or something like that, is a masterpiece. 

2....Crate in the bedroom... Brilliant, we have the crates in the bedroom as well. Never had a problem with the dog whining since day one  ... However, your dog is a creature scared, ripped from his family (in exchange for your money, something it has no concept about) and at this point and needs to feel safe and protected. 
What happened in his case, unintentionally on your part, was put in a situation where it felt lost and overwhelmed, alone, afraid and without a way out. 
So, he peed under the table (under the table = crate!) and "GRRRRRR" was his response. 

See, how many got to reading this far?


Julius


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Crate, no crate, it doesn't really matter, provided YOU control each new experience. Watch pup for signs of uncertainty and if there, just slow the whole thing down and allow pup to come to the new experience in it's own time. Learning to read your pup will get easier as you come to bond and know her.


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## Vizsla13 (Feb 27, 2013)

Thanks ozkar, looking at the situation form Indie's point of view 'just waking up loud banging two little kids rushing and no mummy (me) there' I can understand why she was upset but at the time after having read threads about dogs becoming a bit aggressive I freaked out a little and just needed reassurance. So thank you everyone that did that.

Datacan - sorry but after that last post I think your a little odd!! I wasn't upset just thought your short answer was a bit rude and all I was after was some reassurance. Your last post is just weird!!!


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

V13, like when you sometimes meet a friend of a friend and on first meet your not sure how to take them, but after a while, you soon realise they are a good person with a lot of value to offer. Chill out and don't be hasty in passing judgement just yet. Data is a wealth of knowledge and experience and has lots of value to offer you if you allow it. Yes, he's direct and often is very busy, so posts are straight to the point. Do a search on some of mine.... I'm even more direct and have been called lots worse in here   But your an Aussie, so you should be well used to direct, open and frank communication!!   He just does what us Aussies tend to do and calls it how it is without a lot of sugar coating.  I and a lot of others in here, while not always in agreement with him, do respect his opinion....... give it some time before you condemn him please


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## Vizsla13 (Feb 27, 2013)

I know what you mean Ozkar and his post were ones I always like reading and that I took note of and yours. I'm not actually and Aussie just a soft Scottish lass (who now lives on Oz) maybe I take things too personally. Still think that first part of his post was odd tho


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## maplevizsla (Oct 26, 2012)

1) Don't stress over the incident, forget about it. She is a brand new puppy in a new world with new exposures and she will be a little hesitant at first. Titan was a little scared the first few days at Raina (my now 2.5 yr old daughter) at her shrieks and fast movement, he had never been exposed to children at all. But now they are best buddies and he LOOOVES children.....too much in fact he gets overly excited and knocks them over because he wants to kiss thier faces! 

What we did when Titan was a baby puppy is walk around our neighbourhood and every time children were playing on thier lawns or hockey in the street, we had them feed treats and give pats. I even went as far as letting some of the kids hold Titan's leash and walk him, each took turns and trotted him around thier lawn or asked him shake paw. He soaked it all up and adored those kids. Keep working with children, and make each exposure pleasant. 

2) As for putting the pup in the crate when guests come over???? Never heard of that in my life, or at least that has never happened, and will never happen in my house. Why not seize the opportunity to ask Indie for a sit to be petted, or teach her off/no jumping. Vizslas love people, and I would think crating her may have the opposite effect, that having guests over is a way of punishment. At such a young age and being brand new, right now her crate isn't known to be a safe haven just yet. She is seeing it like isolation and not be allowed to investigate new guests.

Personally, I would have your guests come in as normal, take off their coats and shoes and have treats ready for them to give Indie and get her to appraoch them on her own term if she is comfortable. Also, instruct your friend with children to ask her children to use thier "quiet indoor voices" and let let Indie sniff and kiss them as they sit nicely on the floor, with treats in their hand or a squeeky toy. This way the kids are not moving fast, are at Indie's level and have a good association to them.



Vizsla13 said:


> Well been to sports day found a shady spot and sat down. Kids were coming over but only if they noticed her and there were no more than 2/3 at a time. I was amazed at how many of them asked before just rushing into clap her it was nice to see. Anyway she was perfectly fine waggy tail the whole time and I gave some of the kids a treat to give her. She didn't get over excited just happily lay there getting belly rubs.
> 
> As for why was she not crated! Well I didn't realise that's what I should have done, the whole point of my friend and her kids coming over was to meet her so if she had been in her crate (which is in my bedroom) how should the meeting have occurred from there? I don't see why she should be crated every time someone comes to the house so happy to hear the reasons for this. It's certainly not something I've had to do with previous puppies (are vizslas so different to every other breed!) and as I had said the day before she had been so happy when my two friends came over to meet her the previous day. Her crate may well become a safe haven but she's still getting used to that too!


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

I haven't read any of the other posts (so this may be repetitive), but from experience, I hate to say this but, I would consider returning the puppy if you have a contract with the breeder. Fear in such a young dong is indicative of genetic fear issues, which can be helped, but may never get completely better.

Our boy, Gus, did this exact same thing on the second day we brought him home. He actually snapped when the little 3-year old girl tried to pet him. (I had no idea at the time that puppies could or would do this) We hired a behaviorist and have worked with him, but he has gotten worse. He can't get anywhere near kids without freaking out. We can't take him anywhere or do anything with him. He growls at anybody that comes into our house and sometimes goes after them. He We've talked about giving him back to our breeder (we have a contract) but we love him too much and he is too much part of our family now. So we have these issues to deal with for the next 13 years. Even simple things like going on vacation seems out of the question because we have no where to leave him. He would bite anybody at a kennel who tried to come in, and hates everybody else except for us! 

If we would have known what a huge warning sign growling and fearful behavior at 10 weeks was, we would have taken him back to the breeder then. I'm sure the puppy will be a loving dog with you (as our boy is) but this can indicate a big issue that you may not want to deal with for the next 15 years. 

In any case, DO NOT PUSH IT either. We thought Gus just needed more socializing, but everything terrified him and only made matters worse. So when you do expose the puppy to new things, go verrrry slowly, and use lots of treats. I don't mean to scare you, but your post sounded exactly like us two years ago, and now we are dealing with what we call "the worst dog ever", even though we love him to death and he is a great cuddler


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

Like I said, I only read the first post, so maybe my post isn't relevant. But still, I just want to warn people that growling and being so scared is NOT NORMAL behavior for a young puppy. At least that is what the PhD animal behaviorist told us; puppies don't have "learned" fear when they are that young. (Before Gus, I had never, ever heard of or seen a puppy growling at anybody). Maybe her puppy will be fine, but I had to share my experience. I don't care how the puppy did subsequently, that is still a bad sign and at the very least means that the owner should be extra-vigilant with training and socializing. 

I wish somebody had "scared" me right away. I called the breeder in a panic and he assured me that the puppy was just getting used to his new home and it was nothing to worry about. Boy, was he wrong. Ending up with a dog like Gus has really affected our lives in a big way and is heartbreaking at times, and I just don't want anybody else to have to deal with it. Hopefully Indie will be fine and this was an isolated incident. And if you don't have kids and don't plan on having any, it's probably less of an issue too!


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I think those of us ( me included) that have owned problem Vs sometimes jump in to soon. Yes, we need to give new owners the signs to look for, but try not to diagnose a new puppy as a problem dog.
One instance of a puppy being scared does not make it a fearful puppy. It does let you know that you should slowly work with Indy around kids.


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

Yes, I suppose it's an over-simplification. We should hear from people who had similar experiences and whose dogs turned out fine.

I'm just extra sensitive to the issues lately. On here again looking for info on aggression and resource guarding since we have more new issues popping up.

Maybe a better piece of advice- our V does better when he starts in his crate when people come over. He does feel safe in there. After 10-15 minutes, once he is used to the noise, etc., we let him out and this usually helps him adjust a little better.


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

You're going to get a lot of different advice on the forum. Reading the replies to your post is informative to me. 

Everything I read pre-puppy, said that puppies are not supposed to react that way. I read Dunbar's books, some of Cesar Milan's books, and another popular book about puppies (forgot the name). I also read some blog posts on trainer's websites, but am obviously not an expert (just a researcher). 8 weeks or 9 weeks is supposed to be the golden time before the pup goes through his/her fear periods. The perfect time to socialize when the pup loves everyone. I'm so glad to hear how well Sports Day went!

It is interesting for me to hear that other people had pups who did this so early as a normal part of development. I also have never heard of crating before having people come over or while they are over, that is new as well. 

I only have experience with my pup and then through reading other material. From what I have read, I would say it is a warning sign, for certain, and something to watch. Maybe, from what other people said not a huge indicator, though, and maybe the books were overzealous in their warning. Keep in mind there are very few (if any) real experts on the board and we all use our personal experience. I don't think pups are supposed to react like that, as it is more than normal timidity. I don't want to scare you if you don't need scaring though. I recommend asking your breeder and then maybe doing some of your own research, especially since you have a two year old and friends with young children.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

V13, DID MY ANSWER HELP IN ANY WAY? 
Don't care, you can even call me Lucy, if you and your dog got anything out of it...


Overload.... just like your V, V13 take each stimulus and introduce the dog methodically. You bond with the dog first!!!! It has only been three days...

At this point your dog just got "Home" (your home). It doesn't know YOU or the KIDS or anything else around you.. It behaved well in the field because that was the safe thing to do... Believe me it doesn't know what else to do. You are the pack leader and it apparently cannot rely on you.

Take care, don't rush things, and you will have a kind and balanced dog... at least, that's how they were born...


KEVIN, good answer, BUD... ;D


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

DougAndKate said:


> Same as born36 said, the "bed" command has been our savior, especially with the new baby around. He still gets super excited once we give the "free" command, but at least people can walk in the door and make their way in the house without an issue.


This is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier today....

Again, hope this helps you in the future.

Hobbsy


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

jjohnson said:


> Like I said, I only read the first post, so maybe my post isn't relevant. But still, I just want to warn people that growling and being so scared is NOT NORMAL behavior for a young puppy. At least that is what the PhD animal behaviorist told us; puppies don't have "learned" fear when they are that young. (Before Gus, I had never, ever heard of or seen a puppy growling at anybody). Maybe her puppy will be fine, but I had to share my experience. I don't care how the puppy did subsequently, that is still a bad sign and at the very least means that the owner should be extra-vigilant with training and socializing.
> 
> I wish somebody had "scared" me right away. I called the breeder in a panic and he assured me that the puppy was just getting used to his new home and it was nothing to worry about. Boy, was he wrong. Ending up with a dog like Gus has really affected our lives in a big way and is heartbreaking at times, and I just don't want anybody else to have to deal with it. Hopefully Indie will be fine and this was an isolated incident. And if you don't have kids and don't plan on having any, it's probably less of an issue too!


Jjohnson, I know you've got some issues with your Gus, but a puppy who is a little fearful is more than normal. I've brought up more dogs just about than I've had hot dinners and each and every one when little tends to approach things with a degree of scepticism. The poor thing has been home for a few days, ripped away from the only family it knows and it's mother, of course it's going to approach things with a little fear. 

I am a firm believer that a lot of issues come from the owner's mental state. I'm not suggesting that's your issue with Gus as I have not viewed it. But If I had a dollar for every person who said... "My dog is fearful/aggressive/intimidated/anxious when faced with X" and within 2-10 minutes I have them doing X with me tail wagging happily.............

At a dog park not long ago, a family with a female Boxer tried to tell me that their girl hated men and wouldn't have anything to do with them. They claimed they had been to two different behaviourists and that it couldn't be solved. I think it took 6 minutes and she was rolling around on the grass with me licking my face with her little tail wagging furiously....... So I have real doubts with MOST dog owners who tell me this or that cannot be fixed. Dogs are THE BEST exponents of human body language and I truly believe they can sense more than just the body language, but also the mental state and presence of the human.


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

Ozkar - Yeah, I don't really appreciate people insinuating it is our fault. Granted, maybe our Gus could be a little better if we worked with him several hours each day, but it's hard to work with what a trained PhD professional (professor of animal behavior at a major research university) called _"profound genetic fear aggression"._ Also, we (now!) know that our dog's mom is exactly the same way (our fault for not knowing this).

In fact, if you actually ready about anxiety in dogs, you'd learn that a bug chunk of it is genetic (especially when exhibited at such a young age). Many dogs that end up in shelters have this issue- people think they get a dog that's "been abused" but actually the dog was poorly bred.

Also, dogs like my Gus can occasionally be good- in fact, we had someone over the other day and he acted perfectly fine for an hour or two. Then she stood up and went to the kitchen, and suddenly his hackles went up and he started growling (for no apparent reason- she took her sunglasses off, maybe that's why?). Dogs like this are UNPREDICTABLE and sometimes are perfect angels; that's what makes it so frustrating and scary. I've done a lot of research, I've talked to vets, trainers, etc. The behaviorist said he might get better if a trained professional worked with him several hours each day....but obviously we are not professionals, nor do we have several hours every day. Maybe you could get our Gus to warm up to you for a little bit at a public place, but you couldn't fix the sudden outbursts for no particular reason that often come with extremely timid, unstable dogs. I'm sure the anxiety and aggression can run the full spectrum- from mild to severe, but it is something to be extremely concerned about if you are like most of us and not a "dog whisperer". 

That being said, I shouldn't be scaring anybody because I think we have a pretty extreme case. In fact, he has suddenly stared being scared of us after we come home after being gone for more than an hour or two. He trembles and shakes, and growls until I can talk to him and convince him it's just me. This started a few weeks ago out of the blue.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Its not good to lump all dogs into one category, or all owners. Each dog is an individual in some way, and yes some dogs are not hardwired correctly.
Ozkar this is not a dig in anyway.
If you are that good with dogs and able to fix a problem in one sitting. You could make a lot of pet owner happy and make money at the same time. Give it some thought. A few fliers and training days at a local park would give you a start.


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

I would definitely be interested in what methods you use to get a dog like that to like you. When people come in our house we have to tell them "Don't look at Gus, talk to him, move too fast, don't walk up the stairs, don't cough or touch your face (he doesn't like that!), don't bend down, don't kneel, don't try to get on the floor, and don't try to touch him!" If someone can do ALL of these things, they might have a shot, but people have a hard time following directions


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

JJ, Caesar Millan can, 
You live with a very special dog 8)
http://www.cesarsway.com/newsandeve...storm&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=southpark


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