# Puppies for Ruby South England



## sargentshouse (Feb 11, 2009)

Hello Everyone

Our Family has been debating when and if to let our 2 year old Visla - Ruby have some puppies, Does anyone have any advice as we would really like to avoid 'breeder style' pregnancy for her- it would be really nice if we could fing a family dog to meet up with her soonish. 


Does anyone have any Ideas friends or contacts

Thanks Lorna


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## UplandV (Feb 8, 2009)

Well, we just bred our V, who is two. First off you'll need to have the hips OFA'd by a reputable vet, who will be able to at least give you a prelim as far as how the hips will rate. We don't do elbows, but the hips should be done. 

I would recommend going to a breeder, who has what you like. They'll have advice if you want to welp the puppies, they understand the breeding process, and they have leads to help you sell the pups. Generally a stud fee is the price of one of your pups or they can have a pup. 

Have you titled your dog? What does it have behind it? Go to k9info.com to find a five generation family tree so that you have an idea who would be good to breed to. The idea is to make the breed better not have pups for the sake of having pups...Do you know what crosses have produced what you're looking for? Do you want field or show? Generally there are big differences here. 

Are you going to dock tails yourself, many breeders can do this and at least you won't have to pay for it with a vet. Are you going to give the first shots, have you decided how to sell your dogs, do you have leads(for sales), are you going to guarantee the dogs from health defects, how much are you going to charge? There are many things that you need to consider before trying to find someone to breed your female to...What are you going to do if you can't sell all the puppies. Are you ready to take back puppies if the owner's decide they don't want them, or are you going to let them go to rescue groups...

Chris


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## Vlicked (Jun 19, 2008)

Um....take heed of everything Chris has to say...especially this:



UplandV said:


> The idea is to make the breed better not have pups for the sake of having pups...


I guess I don't understand what you mean by avoiding a "breeder style" pregnancy. I think this is a touchy subject so I'll try not to say too much as I don't know the history of you or your V (i.e. are you titling her in conformation or do you have her in hunt competitions; are you part of a local Vizsla club; have you had experience whelping pups in the past) and I don't want to offend. I'm afraid backyard breeders are a potential detriment to the wonderful breed by breeding skiddish dogs, not properly socializing this sensitive dog and breeding dogs that have obvious health problems or structural "flaws." Please consider Chris' advice and get Ruby OFA tested/certified and run some bloodwork for routine diseases before breeding. And be very choosy about who she mates with. Make sure the stud has also been tested, that he has a great temperament and even hunting ability. Again, your local V club will have a great amount of resources to help you out. Professional breeders are very dedicated to their breed and only choose dogs that have the right temperament, structure, health and conformity to continue a line. It takes some breeders decades of hard work and dedication and because of it we have healthy, happy and sweet red dogs running around that are a wonderful part of our lives.

I wish you luck and I really have no intention of offending. I just love this breed so much and saw all the dedication our breeder put into her dogs.


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## sargentshouse (Feb 11, 2009)

Chris - thanks a million for your reply - lots to think about there and some great advice. We had a cross-breed who had puppies over 10 years ago and it was a great family experience but of course without the involvement of breeders so we would be new to this. We were extremely careful to find great loving homes for the pups, and some even remained in touch over the years.
Our Viz, Ruby is such a great character and is registered with a full pedigree etc. but came from the other end of the country so we were obviously looking for an appropriate link closer to home. It looks like we will have to think again if it means putting her through procedures - I was concerned about the hip-scoring procedure - and we are against docking. Just want to do what is right for her too.
Thanks again,
Lorna


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## UplandV (Feb 8, 2009)

Hi again - just a comment on docking. The reason a V's tail is docked, (and there are numerous clubs out there that have evidence to back this up) is because if they are hunted hard the tip of the tail on V's, who are undocked, often becomes broken. At birth puppies have very few nerves in their tails as they are still developing, this is not true when the tail breaks when they are older.

Many dogs have had lifelong damage due to being undocked. V's have incredible drive and if used for hunting, don't quite know when to quit even when they've opened themselves up from barbed wire. A docked tail protects the V, when in the field. The same is true of dew claws. I've seen both, and I've also seen V's who have had their dew claws ripped off when hunting. The pain a dog feels from a broken tail or a ripped dew claw is very traumatic for them as well as the owner. 

I guess, having watched tails be docked, and seeing the injuries; our family chooses to protect the adult dogs mind and nervous system. I supose you could look at it like the having baby boys circumsized...it doens't hurt as bad when their little, but the adults I've known to have it done don't recommend it....

As far as the hip scoring procedure, it takes about five mins. and is not a big deal. The dog is placed on their back and an x-ray is taken. Most of the time the dog is not asleep for the procedure if you go to a decent vet. The cost is between 100-200 (american) to have it done in the states. It also let's you know if your dog will have future problems...which might be important to know about for their own health.

Having great character is wonderful as well as being a good family pet, however I do not/will not breed to a dog that just has that. Does the dog have a great nose, can it hunt, how does it's tail look on point, how much drive does it have, is it titled (which does not necessarily mean I will breed to it), has it produced other good dogs. There are plenty of great pets out there. Everyone thinks that their dog is the best dog/has the best personality and that this will automatically mean that it will produce other great dogs. This is simply not true. There are dogs that are great producers, look back five generations there is a dog that produced 5+ national champions and produced great pets as well as hunting dogs. What negative resessive genes are behind your dog. All dogs have resessive genes that could end up causing the pups to have Epilisy as well as a whole host of other diseases and problems. Have you talked to the person you bought the dog from...do you trust them, will they be honest about problems other people have had with dogs out of what they've produced...many will not. 

I've watched dogs for years before making the decision to breed to them. They all have holes in their application of hunting, looks, tail height, personality...ect 

Please don't lightly undertake this, many of us care deeply (as you most likely do) about the breed and spend much of our free time attempting to make it better. Many of us work in rescue, to help place dogs that have been 'backyard' bred and are not placed in good homes.

Best of luck,
Chris

Chris


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## taznugget (Sep 17, 2010)

*Broken tail tip*

Well, the inevitable has happened! A tail jambed in the door, and now our mate has a broken tail. Doesn't look good, and to top it off the vet is wanting to charge $500 to dock it off by about 6 inches. Hmmm, love to hear what people think in regard to whether it is ok to leave it, or chop it and live with it?

Taznugget


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## scooby (Mar 23, 2009)

[quoteInsert Quote
Well, the inevitable has happened! A tail jambed in the door, and now our mate has a broken tail. Doesn't look good, and to top it off the vet is wanting to charge $500 to dock it off by about 6 inches. Hmmm, love to hear what people think in regard to whether it is ok to leave it, or chop it and live with it?

][/quote]


Hi Scooby broke his tail 5 days ago and he was in agony, but he's well on the mend now and his tail is still undocked!


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## Kizzie (Dec 21, 2010)

Most of what has been said in previous posts is very valid, so there is no point in repeating. I would prefer to dock puppies tails - relevantly painless, compared to the distress that can be caused to a damaged tail in adult life. I have dealt with a broken tail and numerous 'burst' tails - bleeding, healing, only to burst again, spraying blood everywhere. That cannot be painless, but if that is a 'show dog', it cannot be docked therefore it has to suffer and heal !! In the UK, docking a damaged tail for medical reasons will cost in the region of ~£150, depending on vets, region etc. It is illegal to dock tails of puppies unless you have a gun licence, but at 2 days old, how do you know which puppy will be a 'hunter' ? You cannot 'show' a dog with a docked tail but what happens if that dog damages its tail and it has to be docked ? I could mate a bitch in Scotland, but she has to travel to England prior to being 5 wks pregnant and stay there until she has whelped in order to get some or all of that litter docked for 'working' purposes. If she whelps in Scotland, it is impossible. The whole issue is now a total minefield !!!! Sadly, this issue has been instigated by 'non-doggy' do- gooders who really have no experience of these dogs and the problems that they/we face with tails.


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## Kizzie (Dec 21, 2010)

I got slightly carried away with the docking issue. My advice regarding breeding from your bitch would be to discuss this with your breeder. All my puppies leave with a breeding endorsment which I will only lift after health tests are done and the results are satisfactory. That being the case, then I would be only too happy to advise my owners on breeding and potential sires, etc. I would hope that most reputable breeders adhere to this same principle.


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## Chestersmum (Jun 21, 2010)

Not sure if you are in the UK? Just to point out that we're not allowed to dock in the UK unless the dog is being sold or comes from a working home. It has to have a proper DEFRA certificate etc. Not many pups over here have docked tails for this reason.


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