# Help with conflicting advice about puppy/dog food!



## BaxtersMum (Oct 6, 2012)

Hi guys

I thought I'd start a new thread even though I have one about wet food because I wanted others to read and advise as well.

I've just been to Scampers one of our leading local pet supplies store to get some Jamss Wellbeloved wet food to start mixing with the dry food we are using. The guy there told us that James Wellbeloved isn't good and wouldn't recommend it. He said it is full of fillers, salt and sugar and not natural. Our breeder and our vet recommended James Wellbeloved and also our village pet store along with plenty if other people. 

The other thread I started gave some good advice about raw food and the guy from Scampers said that was good advice and that's what they recommend along with the in store vet. 

Now I know that each store and also each vet will recommend the product they are trying to promote the most and sometimes it's down to money and not the well being if your pet so I am now really confused!

I like the idea of raw food but also concerned about messing about with my puppy's diet and his digestive system so I want to get it right first time. Has anyone used Natures menu? This is what Scampers recommended along with Marcus Muhle dry food to compliment. They didn't sell Natural Instinct that another poster recommended which is what I was considering trying so not sure whether to try that or this other one. 

Help!!!!!


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## Phoebejane (May 10, 2012)

Hey baxtersmum 

Sorry I can't help you as I'm not an expert on dog food and Harry eats royal canin... If your pups is healthy and happy eating James wellbeloved why not stick with it, I never understand why The large pet shops sell these products if they don't recommend them bunch of looneys lol


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## doublemocha (Aug 28, 2012)

Hi, not sure if you are uk based. Also, I don't even have our puppy yet so I can't give specific, practical advice, but the following link is useful I found when trying to make my choice about foods. It's a minefield isn't it? 

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/255727-updated-dry-dog-food-index.html


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## BaxtersMum (Oct 6, 2012)

Thank you both 

I am UK based. Baxter seems ok on JWB, health wise, i.e, weight and poos but he isn't that interested in it and doesn't seem to enjoy it. I always have to coax him and he rarely finishes it all off so doesn't seem to be eating much. I have found he prefers one flavour to another though. I really only went in the pet shop to get the JWB wet food that somebody else recommended but obviously now concerned it isn't the best to be giving him. 

I have since read another post in the diet tread, thought I'd posted this one there oops! A comment on the downside of raw is travelling and I didn't think of that. We camp a lot and it will be hard to keep raw food fresh so maybe I should keep him on kibble?

Thanks for the link, I'll read it now.

It's a minefield, you're not wrong there!!


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

Did you say something about conflicting advice on puppy/dog food. That is a bit of under statement I think 

As I have said in other threads, I am a great advocate of raw diet. I have never had a great deal of success with kibble with either my Danes or my Vizsla. Despite all the advances that manufacturers have made with nutriene I have found that dogs on kibble generally have soft stools and do many stools a day. Where as when I switch them to raw there is a remarkable difference. That says to me the raw is more digestable than kibble.

However, I do appreciate that raw isn't alway convenient or suitable for all. So this is what we all do, we feed the best possible food we can afford that is suitable for us. If your dog is doing well on JW why change?

I am in the UK and I feed Natural Instinct - great food, convenient as they deliver anywhere next day delivery. I have just had a read of the nature's menu website. Looks very good, but what is the shelf life of the pouches? Do the pouches have preservatives in them to give a longer shelf life. I would certainly give the frozen blocks a try and the pouches look ideal for travelling. If you do give it a try I would be interested to know what you think of it. I am not thinking of moving from the Natural Instinct as that is human grade meat, but it is always good to know of other good brands in case I have a problem getting it.


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## BaxtersMum (Oct 6, 2012)

Hi Hotmischief

Yes very conflicting when vet says JWB is great and pet shop says its not. I have a leaflet the vet gave me and it says its everything the pet shop said it isn't. He said its full of fillers, sugar and salt but leaflet says not at all!

It was your recommendation on raw that made us look into and buy the natures menu  It's frozen chunks so no worries on shelf life but this is what would make it hard when camping and in holiday etc.

You say why change from JWB, it's mainly because Baxter doesn't seem to like it a great deal. We have to coax him and he doesn't eat the whole amount even though its not actually that much so not because we are over feeding but he seems to want the cats dinner lol. 

We also bought a sample pack of nature diet. Not raw but high quality wet food. I mixed with with a bit of JWB so it's not a sudden change and he tried picking the wet chunks out avoiding the kibble so I put down a separate bowl of just the wet food and he ate it all.

Not sure whether to persevere with JWB or not??

He is having his 2nd jabs tomorrow so will speak to the vet as well. If I can get hold of some JWB wet food might try that?


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## BaxtersMum (Oct 6, 2012)

Just re-read your post and realise you were suggesting pouches of natures menu. Didn't realise they did them! They didn't had them in the store. If we go down this road I will have a look at ordering online, probably cheaper anyway and then I can order pouches. Thanks for pointing that out!


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

BaxtersMum,

I wouldn't waste to much time on talking to your vet about food - very few of them know much about food. One vet told me they get 1/2 a day on it whilst at veterinary school. Doubt that they keep up with all the changes. I think they all have their preferences and that is what they recommend.

When we had a lot of loose poos from my Gt Dane when he was a pup, my then vet kept putting him on antibiotics which didn't work. When I told him this he said we will try a 6 week course and knock it on the head. Ha Ha - no we won't I said and changed vets. One vet in the new practise said all dogs on kibble have soft poos it was natural!!! I complained and was referred to one of the lady vets who helped me with his diet - she has wirehaired pointers - she said fish and rice and when that worked she recommended JWB - she uses it and thinks it's great. It wasn't great for my Dane and that was when I moved him to raw and haven't looked back. I know people who swear by it and others who blame their dogs cancer on it. 

Why not try the frozen blocks and see how you get on. You can always use the pouches when you go on holiday. 

I would add that some dogs will love a food for a few weeks and then go off that food, so be prepared. I would doubt that would happen with raw, but in any case they have lots of different flavours so you can ring the changes.


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## BaxtersMum (Oct 6, 2012)

Yes thank you I'll do that, and I'll look into the pouches and how long the pouches last so we can use them for holidays. I'm going to ask the village pet store if they can get hold of natures menu as well so I can compare the bigger store and online prices. 

Can I ask you a couple more questions? Is natural instincts frozen and can you get pouches? And, have you heard of Markus Muhle? This is the dry food that the pet store suggested we use alongside the raw food. It's German and he said its all good and natural etc and helps keep cost of raw food down? It sounds good and wondered if its well known as I haven't heard of it.

Thanks!


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## doublemocha (Aug 28, 2012)

If you look on the link that I provided there's a breakdown of the Markus Muhle ingredients and a summary on there!!! The index uses green, amber and red, green being the best types of foods on the market (only in the authors opinion, but he would seem to be pretty knowledgable on the subject). Markus Muhle gets amber. It's on page 2. The link breaksdown and gives analysis of most of the dry foods on the UK market.


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## Angie NG (Jun 6, 2012)

We use to feed Bella Arden Grange, never had a problem with it apart from loose stools constantly. She would eat it dry to. She then got a poorly tummy and was put on antibiotics and sensitive food we bought from the vets.
From there on she would not eat dry food at all, we slowly changed to JWB and havnt looked back. There are a few flavours but again she will only eat the duck on its own.
You have to keep trying till you find the right one, but saying that they could go off the food in a month and your back to square one.
Bella is 5 months old and this is her third different type of kibble


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

Natural Instinct is frozen, it comes in 1kilo tubs, lots of flavours. No pouches as no perservatives. However if I had to feed pouches for convenience I would e.g. for holdiays.

Where are you in the UK? Some one did mention the Markus Murhle on a forum but can't remember. They have a website so I would have a read up on that. I think it comes in saugage like rolls? Sorry I really can't comment.


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

Just had a read on the Marcus Murhle website (was too tired last night). I think their product is good and I like the fact that they add fruit and vegetables (like Natural Instinct) and rapseed oil. It is a very balanced diet. For me I would use for convenience on holiday, but I prefere raw meat to cooked. Also as I have previously stated, if it comes in pouches, which is how they sell MM it must have preservatives in it and I try and avoid this as much as possible.

Does Nature's Menu have fruit and vegetable in it? Not a problem if they don't you could always add them yourself.


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## BaxtersMum (Oct 6, 2012)

Thank you!

Appreciate your input on this. I've just posted a out I test I've done on Markus Muhle on the diet thread. Maybe you could look at that and advise.

Here are some pics of the leaflet on Natures Menu. It does contain fruit and veg


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

I have had a good read of the print outs on the Nature's Menu on their website. I have to say I think this is a good product and if I couldn't get Natural Instinct I would use Nature's Menu. I would prefere the frozen blocks but would not have a problem with using the pouches if it was more convenient to me.

I much prefer this product to MM. The Nature's Menu - meat and produce sourced in the UK.


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## BaxtersMum (Oct 6, 2012)

Thank you so much for all your help. 

I am going to try Baxter on Natures Menu and if I can't get hold of any at any point I'll use Natures instinct. Have also tried Baxter on a wet food from Naturediet. He likes it so I may use this for holidays etc. It seems high quality and no artificial ingredients or preservatives. 

Our breeder did warn that Vizslas can be fussy and want a varied diet because they can become bored so at least I will have two to swap and change between


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## LaVidaLoca (Feb 20, 2012)

Hi BaxtersMum,

I'm reading a lot in german dog forums and doing some research about dog food. ( Germans are very very critical about pet food ). I want to change ToW kibble ( my pup poohs to often)and looking for another good quality kibble.. Overall I can say-there's no perfect kibble (unfortunately). 
Some dogs digest Markus Mühle very well some not. I just read that a lot of dogs get problems when eating MM. Some get a lot of poohs , some drink unusual much after eating which also not a good sign. 

Maybe your dog is not used to cold pressed kibble. Some don't digest that kibble not so well-others don't digest extruder kibble.

You have to check what you can order online but Lupovet and CanisAlpha are kibble with very good reviews and positive experiences. 
As for Extruder- you can try Arden Grange, Platinum or Josera.

Hope this helps!!


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## LaVidaLoca (Feb 20, 2012)

I have to add that MM got a really bad review in tests because the calcium is too high in that kibble- especially for pups and they declarate it as an food for all stages. For adult dogs it would be ok but definitely not for pups!


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## BaxtersMum (Oct 6, 2012)

Thank you!

I have decided against the Markus Muhle. I didn't like how it swelled so glad I used the sample I was given as a test rather than a meal for Baxter.

My village store can order Natures Menu and Naturediet so no postage costs and convenient to collect so I'm going to try that. I'm hoping he will like it. He is totally refusing the James Wellbeloved now. I think because he has a taste of the Naturediet! Definitely going to have to go out and buy some ASAP!!


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