# Growling, showing teeth, biting



## Jesskelly9

So we have a 9 month old Vizsla named Parker and an 8 week old Vizsla named Bailey. Parker tends to not listen and steals food or random papers off the table or socks or wet towls. When we go to grab what he has away from him he growls at us and shows his teeth. We've tried to be mean, we've tried to be nice, nothing works. We don't want to just let him go bc that means he wins and it'll only get worse. There has been a few close calls to of him trying to bite us once we try to grab his muzzle. He actually bit my bfs hand tonight (my bf and I live w/ eachother so he is not a stranger) when he tried to get a sock out of his mouth. What do you suggest us to do?? He cannot keep being like this or someone will get hurt eventually. I was bite by a Jack Russel Terrier when I was 13 in the mouth, stiches and all and I am afraid when Parker gets something bc I can't do anything about it. Thats not making me the boss if he gets away with it. What do you guys suggest?


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## redbirddog

I think you might have some "pack" issues. Look over:

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2009/12/history-and-misconceptions-of-dominance.html

Also remember "A tired Vizsla is a happy Vizsla." Are you challenging your dog's both physically and mentally? They need work to be happy. Important part of owning these high-energy hunting dogs.

RBD


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## KonasPop

I think from the sounds of the post that you might be a little in over your head. Thats just my assumption however...you should consider a trainer. At 9mo your window is closing to nip this stuff and I'm sure there are several factors not listed in the post that are contributing to the behavior. As RBD mentioned, excersise and training is one facet of the household dynamic, but my guess is that there are a host of other little signs you're not picking up that eventually bring Parker to his end. 

back to square one for parker on obedience, training, boundries, limitations - whatever you want to call it. 

How is the pup in all this?


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## sarahaf

All the advice I've read from professionals is not to have a struggle with a dog who guards--I know it seems counterintuitive from the standpoint of dominance theory, but having a showdown actually strengthens the object guarding rather than weakening it. The dog learns, "I thought I was just being paranoid, but turns out, these humans really ARE going to try to take stuff from me, and I'd better hang onto the stuff I want at all costs." Instead (and I know some will disagree) use a treat for a trade at first. Every time your dog releases the object in exchange for a treat, say the words "drop it" or "give" right as the dog is releasing the object. Ideally, you should practice this many times with dog toys or other objects you don't need back, so that after the dog releases the object to you, you can actually hand it right back to the dog. The dog gets a treat AND gets the object back. Over time, the dog learns that good things happen when he gives you what you want, and eventually, you will be able to use the cue "drop it" or "give" to simply ask for what you want from the dog. Gradually, you will phase out the treats and ultimately, have a struggle-free way to get back your items. Here is a link: http://www.mspca.org/programs/pet-owner-resources/dog-care/dog-behavior-tips/leave-itdrop-it.html


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## HoBoJoe

I agree with everything above. We also have a possessive vizsla, but he started to show possessiveness at a much younger age. We tried everything as well- being nice, being mean, etc. I hate the idea of trading the item for a treat, but I started out this way. Once he knew my approach towards him meant good things, I started asking him to drop it without a treat, picked up the item, THEN gave him the treat. We have a special stash of high value treats we ONLY use for drop it, so he continues to want to drop whatever he has because he knows he will get something extra tasty.


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## jlradolec

We to have an extremely aggressive Vizsla. Our son got him at 7 weeks. Our son had to move temp to another state. So mom and dad is taking of Orion. He is very talkative whines, barks to get his way. He wants to be petted only on his terms and when tired of being petted he will go into a red zone attack. He has bitten my son (his owner). Our son was on couch Orion got on couch our son touched Orion. Orion went into a complete red zone attack. Not a BITE. A full on ATTACK. He bit my husband. Husband touched him when getting out of bed. Orion sat next to me I was petting him suddenly he turned his head eyes dialated and went into a full attack mode. 
Orion just turned 3 he is an intact male. He WILL be neutered this friday.
Don't know what else to do. We have had other issues. EXTREMELY FOOD AGGRESSIVE. 
Will put down if this does not work. 
If anyone has any ideas PLEASE HELP


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## redbirddog

> Will put down if this does not work.
> If anyone has any ideas PLEASE HELP


Do not do this *please*. 


If you can not find a way through this then the Vizsla community will help. There are many ways to deal with this behavior. Your situation is hard because you did not "want the dog" but being the good parent were there to help your son.

There are hundreds of posts here on the forum about these behaviors, dozens of books, thousands of dog trainers that can all help. Putting a good Vizsla down is the *very last resort*.

Vizslas are high-energy hunting dogs that need a special knowledge base.

You can send a PM and I'd be willing to give you some suggestions off-line.

Rod


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## datacan

jlradolec please listen to redbirddog and others on this site. There is more to these dogs.

Julius.


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## jlradolec

I am here because I want to save Orion. When son purchased and took to vet. The vet said Orion was probably one of the most Alpha dogs he had ever seen at his practice. Lawarenceville Ga. He told my son how to deal and to get a handle on him. Orion was prob 8 weeks. My son never followed thru. He doesn"t take well to a stern tone. He has never been beat or abused. You can see his mood change. 
Other night he was in bed my husband touched him with his foot. Within a second dog had a foot on my husbands chest and was approx. 4 inches away from my husbands face in the red zone growling. He growled for about a minute or more. Neither of us moved. finally he got off bed was all stiff hair all up he is not allowed in any bedroom


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## jlradolec

Orion is a very beautiful and very smart dog. He has been given no formal obedience training nor has he been trained to hunt. I feel he gets alot of exercise. I actually run him with my car a couple times a day approx. 3 miles. We have a Ga. pwr rite of way that I take him to he swims. We take him to a seldom used 9 hole golf course and let him run. 
The real prob is he is a hunting dog that should be hunted 2 or 3 times a week not a house dog first.
son got him cause he was pretty not for practical purposes.


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## redbirddog

http://www.atlantavizsla.org/

Can you contact this club in Atlanta? If you could contact them and maybe meet with some of them.

Orion can be evaluated by Vizsla people and give you some one on one advice. Bailey, my intact male, is quite a handful. 

You are exercising Orion's body but he needs his mind exercised. I really applaud you reaching out to try to save Orion. It is not too late but you are running out of time. He has just reached adulthood. There is a home for Orion if not yours. 

The situations you have outlined would make me take immediate action! You need help from more knowledgeable people. Not a knock on you and your spouse but unless you know how to deal with a Vizsla that has no "bounds", you will make more mistakes. 

Orion wants to be a part of your pack but doesn't know how. He doesn't know where he fits. I bet he feels he has to be the alpha of the pack because no one else is taking that role. Every pack needs a leader.

Orion's mind can be exercised by many ways other than hunting. Use your local Vizsla club. THEY WILL HELP YOU. 

Hope this helps. 

Hundreds of posts on my blog about raising these dogs. I had never owned a Vizsla until 4 years ago. The learning curve was very steep. Spend an evening starting at the beginning and come forward. My intention of redbirddog was to help folks like you to understand how to live happily with these wonderful dogs.

Rod
http://redbirddog.blogspot.com


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## jlradolec

I have contacted the atl vizsla club . They can't take because he has bitten. I was given the name of someone else. She also can not take. Like I said he came to us with these problems. My son is very laid back. everything Orion did was cute and good boy. In the beginning my son did not have the room for such a high energy dog. Orion destroyed his couch. Orion started eating the drywall in his house. Orion gets alot of exercise. but he needs new scents. Orion needs to be hunting. Orion chases butterflys, lizards, birds, squirrels, foxes. He goes in the woods. Orion will climb on a fallen tree with nothing but agility. I believe had Orion been trained to hunt he would have championship by his name.
I am defenitely praying that neutering helps. This Friday


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## redbirddog

> I believe had Orion been trained to hunt he would have championship by his name.


http://www.vccne.net/files/Articles/goodwkids.pdf

The field trial dogs are hard driven and Orion could have been. Field trial training isn't so much about hunting but about directing the DRIVE that nature gave Orion. Hunting is a team sport and the dog learns that he can not get the bird without the hunter and loves being part of the team. Field trials build on nature and the dog learns the hunter is the key to success.

The Vizsla club may not take Orion but sure could help you in finding resources to assist you.

The neutring can help but isn't the silver bullet. Leadership is.


Good luck. 

Rod


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## born36

I am by no means as experienced an owner as some others on this site but wanted to suggest a few things we do with my 6 1/2 month pup Mac. He is also very driven by his nose and needs his mind worked constantly. He gets lots of exercise but as mentioned in other posts we realised early on that if we didn't work his mind we would be in trouble.

To help his drive there are a few things we do. We have several toys that slowly release his food. This makes him have to work for his meals. We feed him only half or sometimes even only a third of his meal in his bowl and the rest in toys that he has to work on. Also with him out of the room I hide small piles of his food around the kitchen. Then open the door and say "Find it!!!" and he loves this. It is indoor hunting! Also some of his meal is given to him by doing training so, sit, stay, lay down etc.

I know you stated that he is food aggressive so the training might be difficult if you are giving him food from your hand but the "find it" game and dispensing toys would be a good start. If you make him work for food this should make him realise that food is something that you control. Your aim should be to get where you can put his bowl on the ground and he won't touch it unless you give him a command. This will take time and from a dog that I had in the past you will have some progress and then might go back a bit but after awhile it will work. If you are looking to rehome him start with some of these suggestions as whoever takes him on will need the process to start now. Best of luck. I hope you find a solution.


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## redbirddog

> I actually run him with my car a couple times a day approx. 3 miles. We have a Ga. pwr rite of way that I take him to he swims. We take him to a seldom used 9 hole golf course and let him run.


"The single most powerful tool we have for bonding with our dogs is the walk. Walking is a primal exercise that awakens all of her pack instincts. No amount of toys or treats will make her happier than a brisk, hourly walk by your side. Yet the walk is one area where dog owners seem to have the most problems. Most people have the dog out in front, pulling them forward. I’ve asked the reason for this and I usually get, “She loves her freedom.” Freedom?

A dog is a pack animal and what she really wants from the walk is leadership and structure. To me, the best role models for great dog walking technique are the homeless and the service dog-using handicapped! Why? They seem to better understand the concept of canine pack leadership. The leader is always in front during the walk. And for many homeless, their dogs often aren’t even on a leash – they choose to stay behind or beside their owners.

Of course a dog wants to sniff the ground and pee on a tree during the walk, but it is important that we as pack leaders understand that we should be making the “when and where” decisions for them. Following our rules gives the dog confidence because she’s working for every privilege she gets." - Cesar Millan 

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2009/06/importance-of-mastering-art-of-walk.html


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## sarahaf

jradolec,

You can contact the following professionals for an evaluation and/or a referral to someone closer. This one is in Athens, but again, might know who is closer and can work with you on the aggression:

Sharon Crowell-Davis
Department of Anatomy and Radiology
College of Veterinary Medicine
University of Georgia
Athens, GA 30602-7382
office tel: 706.542.0269
[email protected]
http://www.vet.uga.edu/var/services/behavior.php
I provide legal consultations
I accept media inquiries

The following person has a Ph.D. in animal behavior (is a certified applied animal behaviorist--kind of like a psychologist but for dogs) and works with aggression--looks to be in the Georgia area based on area code, but I'm not sure where. 
http://www.animalharmony.com/index.html

The following professional is in Macon--again, not very close, but might know of someone closer to you (EDIT--actually, he may be in Atlanta, email him to check location):

John C. Wright, Ph.D., CAAB
(certification expires: 12/31/12)
Professor of Psychology
Mercer University
1400 Coleman Avenue
Macon, GA 31207
Tel - 478-301-2973
Atlanta Tel: 404-524-5500
Fax - 478-301-2956
E-mail - [email protected]
Website - www.mercer.edu/psychology/Faculty_Staff/Wright_JC/Wright_JC.htm


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## jlradolec

Hi all,

Just took Orion to vet and had neutered.
Had an incident in vets office. Had been walking Orion on leash at our house with me making Orion sit stay come and not pull. All was going fine. When we went to vet office for neutering new scents. Well Orion starts really pulling refused to listen. I had his leash on in form of a choke. It became a fight between Orion wanting to go smell other dogs or me not allowing. When Orion realized he could not get his way he threw a tantrum. Orion almost got choked out. Finally Orion quit fighting and just laid down. Office help came out but Orion and I were in the middle of a red zone struggle.
Had a serious talk with vet. Vet said I had done the right thing. Vet said neutering will help some. But that Orion is in need of serious help or euthanasia. The vet also said he is against euthanasia if all other avenues have failed.
Our vet is going to call someone and give our number to for some serious intervention.
Our vet said this is a case of serious DOMINANT AGGRESSION. 
I will keep you guys updated Please pray and cross your fingers for Orion.
Thanks to all who have pm me for advice.


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## redbirddog

> Our vet said this is a case of serious DOMINANT AGGRESSION.


Think of Orion as that star high school football player.

The star football player will not listen or respect the meek person but will respect the calm assertive and tough drill Sargent. 

The trainer you find needs to work with you and Orion.

The Dominant Aggression may be hereditary and the breeder should be contacted to let them know what is happening. 

The forum needs to hear from you on how this goes. Orion may not be able to be saved, and that would be a shame. If that is what eventually happens after you have tried all other avenues, then use what you have learned to help others on the forum understand what you have gone through.

Correcting problems early by finding the reasons and never "hoping" the dog will grow out of it might be a lesson to be learned.

Good luck and I will pray for Orion.

RBD


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## jlradolec

Thanks RBD,

Our vet has 2 ladies in mind I think one is just mainly obedience. The other one actually works with the police dept to help train and condition police dogs. After discussing with vet we both think that would be the better way.

Vet also said there is a window of development for learning when the puppy is still a pup. If not given the proper obedience and discipline this is the result of an ALPHA DOG. Although the vet did not think hopeless. Vet said alot of work ahead with no guarantees.

Vet said all avenues need to be pursued before euthenasia. 

We are starting the long road. Hopefully with Orions intelligence we will get there quickly.

I will keep you updated on Orions progress.


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## datacan

I like your vet jlradolec. Go with the lady who works with police dogs - you will not regret it. Your V will not hunt and it's too late for hunting. Obedience, drive and focus training will make you an amazing dog.
But as far as hoping that neutering would solve aggression... it may be a little late for that. Generally police GSDs are neutered at 2 years for a reason. They need to be fully grown and strong and aggressive looking. But those dogs are trained by qualified professionals (I respect all those working in the field training those dogs).
Neutering at 6 months makes a difference as far as aggression is concerned.


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## jlradolec

Thanks Datacan, and rbd

Orion needs alot of help. Vet also said same thing. Vet said neutering should have been done 2 yrs ago. However I hope we are on right path. Not many people would keep a dog who has bitten 3 times and has attacked with the intent to bite at least 6 or 7 more. Vet said we may suppress aggression. But he will never be rid of this aggression. Vet said at this stage no guarantees. That Orion still may have to be put down.

This is a result of improper leadership and handling

So PLEASE for anyone thinking about getting this breed make sure it is a breed for you. Not something you get cause it is PRETTY. That is the mistake my son made. He seen a dog felt it was a pretty dog. This dog doesn't fit my sons life style.

My son got a very ALPHA dog. Vet said without proper handling and leadership of an alpha dog they get very frustrated. Because they have such a hard drive to work. We see this in Orion. All he wants to do is hunt.

So we will work and do our best to save a dog that we did not plan on having. But his red zone agression attacks have to be controlled for our safety and the safety of others.

In talking with my son this problem did not start over night. So with each warning growl and without the proper correction. The warning growls went from a warning to an all out red zone attack where he means to hurt or kill.

Thanks you guys for your encouragement


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## redbirddog

> So PLEASE for anyone thinking about getting this breed make sure it is a breed for you. Not something you get cause it is PRETTY. That is the mistake my son made. He seen a dog felt it was a pretty dog. This dog doesn't fit my sons life style.


http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/07/purchasing-vizsla-so-it-doesnt-end-up.html

The above post is my attempt to share the wisdom of others. When people tell you how wonderfully looking your dogs are and think that they might want one, how do you react? I some times wish Vizslas were not so **** good looking. Not many people get German Shorthair Pointers who don't know what they are buying.

Keep us posted and God bless you for trying to turn Orion around. A great book to put your mind at ease if you have to make the very tough choice is "A Dog's Purpose." 

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/08/dogs-purpose.html

Highly recommended for any Vizsla owner. 

RBD


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## jlradolec

Hey All,

If I sound angry it is because I feel a good dog has been mishandled. May have to be put down.

My husband and I owned a Great Dane from 7 wks. till 12yrs and 3 months. You could do anything with our Gentle Giant MAX. 

When our son got Orion. He and his girlfriend had good intentions. They named Orion after the great greek hunter. How sad named after a hunter, bred to hunt, strong drive to hunt and never trained to hunt.

These are a few of the signs that our son and his girlfriend never took for warning signs. So if anyone sees any of these signs. PLEASE DO NOT DO WHAT THEY DID AND IGNORE AND THINK HOW CUTE.

First off they never had adequate room to exercise him. Orion became destructive.

He ate one of their couch cushions up (couch was 1.5 yr). Orion maybe a year.
He started eating the drywall in the hallway. Ate a hole in the wall
They took him to a dog park on some weekends. They quit taking around 6 mo. cause he started mounting every dog he seen.
He also would start to play at their house and would mount them or a pillow or anything he could.
He started growling at prob 9 mo. over his food.
He raised his leg and peed on my sons girlfriend once, and peed twice on a friend of theirs they had staying with them. Also got in their bed and peed. (ALREADY HOUSEBROKEN)
He constantly seeks attention. If made to lay down and he doesn't want too he will slap his front paw on floor and he will also kick his hind leg or start to whine or bark.
When told to sit he would act like doing a play bow with a yawn and make sure his front paws was on your feet.
Orion will ignore the commands he knows when given a command sit,down,stay.
He was allowed on furniture. When on a couch he would climb to the back of the couch and lay around their necks (CUTE RIGHT)? Till one day they moved now he was growling at them for moving. They said he climbed on back of couch cause he was cat like.
He slept with them in bed under their covers. They moved he growled.
He would never walk on a leash I bought them a choke pinch collar. So they could walk him. 
First one in the house first one out of the house.
Orion will come up lay his head in your lap or sit with his butt on you, but when you touched him he would growl.
Orion always seems to be in a hyper state.
My sons girlfriend had one those voices that always seemed to keep Orion in a hyper state.
Everything Orion done was always good boy. If they got on Orion it was almost immediately followed by awwww goood boy.
Orion would steal food off their table and counters. Orion actually was jumping on their dining room table. Sons girlfriend said we yelled at him but I wish I had my camera it was so cute.
Always jumping on people.
Way Way Way too much praise. Everything good boy.
Constantly wanting to mouth. Grab your hand and pull.
All of these are signs of a dominant dog. Without Proper Handling and Proper Training aggression soon followed.

So with Orion's frustration with the lack of leadership and guidance. Realizing his growls may not be working. Orion took control the only way he knew how he went into full blown Red Zone Attacks.

Orion had no boundaries. I was told mom you yell at Orion all the time. When I would tell him in what I consider a firm voice. I would be told all you do is yell at Orion. Maybe a 1.5 year ago I told my son to neuter. said he may want to breed. I told him your crazy you will breed meanness in a dog.

I can not stress enough. PROPER LEADERSHIP, PROPER TRAINING. Everything a dog does is not cute. 

When you correct a dog you are not hurting his feelings. You are in fact telling the dog what you want and expect.

Also remember a hunting dog is just that a HUNTING DOG.

My son hunted once when he was 12 went squirrel hunting seen a squirrel and gave gun to his dad to shoot squirrel. My son is in computer networking. My son will be 30 this upcoming week.
Sons girlfriend at the time was extremely over weight. Was happy to eat a box of chocolates and read a book everyday. 

So if you want to hunt, by all means buy a hunting dog and train him and you have a great friend and companion. But do not make the mistake and pick a hard driven hunting, or working dog and expect them just to lay around the house and be a lap dog. Makes for confused dogs and frustrated owners.

Thanks I needed to vent


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## Mischa

I'm honestly a little bit shocked that your son would do that poor of a job. 
You fully understand what got the dog where it is now. 
It's too bad he doesn't share your sentiments of what discipline means. 

I think the dog is lucky to have you, and I truly am confident that you can help him out of this rut. 
Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I don't think any dog is too far to fix. Certainly not when the owner knows what the problem is.

If you were interested in hunt training, it is never too late. We saw an 8 year old dog starting his junior level last summer. 
It is not only a good source of discipline and bonding, but also a fun way to exhaust him. 

Cesar Milan has it dead right when he says : Exercise, Discipline, Affection, in that order.
I understand that getting the dog tired is a difficult task when he is not social or trustworthy, but it is the first thing you have to figure out if you are going to break through the aggression. 
A tired dog will have less energy to fight commands, and since it's on it's way to a balanced lifestyle, it is more willing to listen.
Giving the dog affection only when he earns it, reinforces what the boss expects.

I strongly believe that if you follow that formula, you'll be in love with your crazy V as much as the rest of us! I'm sure you're already half way there, or you wouldn't be putting this much effort in.

-Dennis


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## jlradolec

Dennis you are absolutely right.
We do love this vizsla.
Our son has a very laid back care free attitude. When our son was 9 for Christmas all he asked for was a dog. Nothing else. My husband with much reluctance agreed but did not want what he considered a small yappy dog. So we got a Great Dane. It was suppose to be our sons. So our son grew up with this beautiful Gentle Giant top weight 225 stood 36 inches floor to top of shoulders. So our son moved out bought house got a dog. Not the proper dog. I told my son when he actually gets settled I will buy him a dog. Probably a mild mannered golden Retriever. We have had friends that have raised sveral and all were exception. A better match for my son.

Thanks Jeannette


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## ceecee

Jeannette,

Please....this post is not meant in any way to be rude....but I have to say I laughed at the description of your son's girlfriend....

Life is like a box of chocolate...You never know what you might get. (Forrest Gump)

I truly hope all works out well with Orion. And please do contact the breeder as suggested.


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