# Puppy selection questions



## colinstab (Sep 10, 2012)

Hi,

i think this might upset some people and i apologiese if it does.

I have been looking through pictures of many different vizslas on here and other sites and there seems to be 2 very distinct facial features when it comes down to what a vizsla looks like.

On one hand they have a very thin long face that could resemble a whippet type breed of dog and on the other they have a slightly shorter broader facial features.

I was wondering if there was a way to pick up the narrower facial features when they are a newly born pup? The reason is i really dont like the look.

Ive had a look at both the sire and the dam. She has a the longer facial features and the dog has the broad so im hoping the breeder has worked a bit of magic and came out with something in between. Which would be absolutely ideal.

So at the end of all my rambling. Is there a way of spotting longer facial features at a age where you pick a pup?

Thanks for any advice. Sorry if i upset the narrow face lovers.


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

Very interesting - as I have also noticed the same, looking at different pictures on the forum. I think you will find that most of the boarder faces tend to be European blood lines as we don't see many long narrow nosed Vizslas in the UK. 

If you have decided on a breeder, unless you are intending to show your new puppy I would be looking for guidance from the breeder on temperament and character first off. It would be a shame to have a puppy with a broad snout and a dominant presonality. Let the breeder know what you want to do with your dog, hunt , show, pet - and whether you want a real live wire or a more layed back pup and lastly you could mention that you would like a broader nosed dog if that also fits the bill.

Hopefully they will have just what you are looking for!!


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## veifera (Apr 25, 2012)

I remember reading an interview with Marion Coffman about snipey faces in Vizslas. From the conformation standpoint, it's a relatively easy but time-consuming thing to fix for a breeder and most breeders who have achieved prominence in the US started with setting a particular look of the face. 

If you don't like the snipey look, check the dam's pedigree for linebreeding. If she is linebred, it means the breeder wanted to fix that specific look and she's going to breed true to type - meaning much of the offspring (if not every single puppy) is going to look like her. 

The role of the sire, in that type of breeding strategy, is to enhance and improve the rest of the features - topline, natural ability, legs, etc. If the face profile is fixed, it is usually what it is. 

And of course the big reveal and proof is in looking at how her previous litters came out.


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## colinstab (Sep 10, 2012)

Thank you very much for your input never thought of looking at previous litters. Even though there has been previous ones with the same sire. Doh!

Cheers.


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## adrino (Mar 31, 2012)

Now I might upset you...

But are you one of those future-vizsla-owners who only gets this breed because of the look? The look you're already unhappy about?

You don't even talk about what you're going to do with your *hunting dog* but all that matters the length of the face. 
Never mind temperament, being healthy, well balanced with great hunting or showing features. 

Unbelievable!


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## colinstab (Sep 10, 2012)

I already know what i want from the dog, what i will gain from the dog and what i can offer the dog. So why is it unbelievable to want something that is perfect for me? 

Majority of people that buy any specfic breed of dog is because they are initially attracted to the way it looks, like it or not. The falling in love bit and getting to know the dogs character happens after they get it home or begin researching it. 

Its my opinion and like i said sorry for upsetting you which i clearly have. I think Vizslas are an unbelievable breed of dog. That would fit me and i would fit it. If i get one and it turns out to grow snipey then so be it. But it wouldnt be something i would want to go out looking for.


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## adrino (Mar 31, 2012)

You certainly did not upset me! 
Disagreeing with someone is not upsetting for me. 

But you are most certainly wrong about


> Majority of people that buy any specfic breed of dog is because they are initially attracted to the way it looks, like it or not. *The falling in love bit and getting to know the dogs character happens after they get it home or begin researching it*.


If you would have put the time and effort to read many many posts on this forum you would find the opposite. Of course there are some but definitely not the majority. 
Most of the owners on this forum has searched and read about this breed way before they got one. 

So you are one of the "majority of people" quote from you, I guess...


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

colinstab said:


> Majority of people that buy any specfic breed of dog is because they are initially attracted to the way it looks, like it or not. The falling in love bit and getting to know the dogs character happens *after they get it home* or begin researching it.


I'm sure that's what our Cooper's owners thought when they brought him home as a baby. @ the tender age of 4 months old they must not have "fallen in love" with him enough to keep him and listed him on Craigslist. : 

*Please* do your future pup a favor and spend time with the breed before you make the decision to purchase a Vizsla.


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## colinstab (Sep 10, 2012)

Sorry must have mistaken the "unbelievable" for emotion. Im afriad we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Weldone you for rescuing a Vizsla im sure there are load out there that have done the same. I have considered this myself but unfortunately i have 2 young children so i dont an adult dog that doesnt know my kids and my kids dont know it.

What were their reasons for giving the dog up in the first place? do you know?


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

colinstab said:


> Weldone you for rescuing a Vizsla im sure there are load out there that have done the same. I have considered this myself but unfortunately i have 2 young children so i dont an adult dog that doesnt know my kids and my kids dont know it.
> 
> What were their reasons for giving the dog up in the first place? do you know?


Cooper came from a home with 2 young children. They said he was knocking them over (by accident, of course) as he ran through the house and they just "didn't have time" for him and his energy needs. The funny (or sad) part is that Cooper is so much more laid back than our Riley girl in his exercise requirements. I can't imagine what would have happened to Riley if she went to a home like theirs. 

I highly recommend you read this article:

_"I read they were good with kids"_

http://www.vccne.net/files/Articles/goodwkids.pdf


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## colinstab (Sep 10, 2012)

Only thing that was wrong there was the owners. Im not here to be vetted to own a Vizsla. The breeder has done that and from what he saw and the answers i gave he is willing to sell me a Vizsla.

I have specifically choosen the vizsla because of its high energy traits, ability to be trained to high levels and their "Quirks".

Please dont mistake preference for lack of education.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

I'm not saying you would be an irresponsible Vizsla owner. I have just seen too many come on here talking about getting a puppy when they aren't aware of the time and energy the breed requires. You worried us by talking about selecting a puppy based on looks. Your breeder should be helping you select a puppy that would do well with your family and lifestyle.


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## zigzag (Oct 4, 2011)

Looks are important. Nothing wrong with a good looking dog, If my dog was butt ugly with the same personality I would be ecstatic!


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## colinstab (Sep 10, 2012)

Ok fair enough. I was probably a bit vague with my original post. Only because alot of questions have already been answered in other posts.

Thanks for all your input anyway.


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## zigzag (Oct 4, 2011)

Dont get discouraged by this thread. I think its a bit hypocritical, many V owners who hunt would have no problem judging a dog on how high or low the tail set is on point. Because its a hunting dog by trade that is not considered judgmental of the breed. The qualities your looking for seem to focus more on a dog that would be ment for show, there is nothing wrong with that IMOP.


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## colinstab (Sep 10, 2012)

I Feel that i need to clear up my original post as i think that i have been greatly mistaken. I dont not and have not taken this decision lightly. I havent just seen a Vizsla passing me in the street and thought wow i like that lets go get one. Then come straight on here to ask.

I have been looking at dogs for approximately 12 months now and carefully selecting which breeds would be good for my lifestyle and my families lifestyle. I have choosen a Vizsla because i believe that its traits would suit us and we would suit it.

The only thing that has me worried is what i have asked about the snipey look, because when it comes to selecting a pup from the breed i have carefully selected. I want it to look, what I have visioned it to look like.


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

Colin, yes I think you have been misunderstood to some extent but please don't take it personally. Forum members who have replied to your post don't know you yet, and so it is easy to misconstrue things. As you yourself pointed out in later posts you have done your research into Vizslas and perhaps in hind sight it might have been better had you introduced yourself and explained why you were getting a Vizsla and the research you had done. 

If you have read through the many back posts on this forum you will see why members were so concerned with your post. We get lots of posts of people getting a vizsla because of their looks and then want help because they didn't realise the dog would need 2 hrs of exercise a day, or was hyper in their house knocking their kids over. Another major problem is leaving them in the house for long periods of time whilst at work - they can be very disstructive if not exercised enough.

All of us only have the welfare of the dogs at heart and sadly too many end up being put up for adoption or rescue for these reasons. Forum folk are really good hearted lovers of Vizslas and are so supportive of fellow members so please don't take our posts the wrong way.

Zigzag has a good point and perhaps that put your post in context. When I was looking for my wirehaired boy I didn't want a megga wirey puppy - so yes I think we all have preferences. I will still love Boris even if he grows a mamouth wirey coat, he is here for keeps.

Welcome to the forum and do keep posting. We would love to hear about your future puppy and do post some pictures of him/her when you get him.


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

I think I can understand where you are coming from. My oldest V. Sophie was bred by a great breeder in the US, but I imported my little baby Pacsirta from Hungary. The reason behind the decision to import a V from Hungary was very simple - I loved the more stocky look and just simply wanted a great working dog from the country of origin. Many people asked if I felt breeders in the US wouldn't be able to offer what I was looking for in a Vizsla. But the decision to import really had nothing to do with US breeders not being good enough. I just wanted one from Hungary  
Little Pacsirta is an amazing Vizsla and so is my darling Sophie. I love them both to bits and pieces! Good luck finding the right V for you!


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## veifera (Apr 25, 2012)

I think there is some confusion between two different things here. 

One is deciding to get a Vizsla (or any dog for that matter) because of its looks. The other is choosing between several different existing looks of Vizslas.

Once people get into Vizslas, they soon start to see and form opinions about details that aren't very apparent to a casual drive-by observer. Even on this forum there were some debates about the ear length that people prefer or coat color and I don't think everyone here is a breeder. 

Colin's original post was about the head shape. Ironincally, this is a topic that is important enough to be reflected in the US breed standard, which says _"Muzzle square and deep. It should not turn up as in a "dish" face nor should it turn down"._ Clearly, not a whippet or greyhound type face. 

So, I think Colin has a pretty good eye, taste and esthetic sense to go a step beyond the general look and pay attention to "advanced" details. I would even encourage him not to forget the rest of the standard - especially eye color, straightness of hind legs and the topline. 

Last weekend, I ran my dog for Juniors in a hunt test and I walked the first brace in the gallery. A Vizsla went on point in the field and it was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen. If I could lift her from that field and put her in a museum, I would. That dog's breeder must have worked very hard on the tail set and the topline to achieve a point like that. 

I guess what I'm saying is there is nothing wrong with appreciating and desiring the most beautiful specimen of the breed one can get. It's not snobbery or shallowness or picking the breed for the wrong reasons


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Hi There, I knew where you were coming from and I think veifera has it right. 

First, you choose the breed and then as you learn more, you notice different looks of the dogs.

I think looking at the pedigree and parents would be the best predictors of looks. If either parent has too thin of face, simply pick a different litter. I didn't get a dog from several places because I didn't like how the parents looked. Once you get them you fall in love with them regardless, but if you are going to be paying so much for a dog, I see no problem with getting one with the aesthetic you want. **This goes for personality too, are the parents high energy/low energy, well behaved, well trained, etc. 

Once you've chosen the litter though (it sounds as if this may already be the case), I would go for personality above anything else, especially since you have a family. Before you Get Your Puppy by Ian Dunbar has a lot of good information on choosing a pup. http://www.siriuspup.com/pdfs/BEFOREphotos.pdf


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## chrispycrunch (May 11, 2012)

luv2laugh said:


> Hi There, I knew where you were coming from and I think veifera has it right.


I have to agree. This is how I interpreted it.


I had many breeds on my list of dogs I was interested in. Weimaraner, Rhodesian Ridgeback, Brittany, Doberman...... It wasn't until I started doing more research into dogs for mountain biking and Weims that I came across a Vizsla for the first time. It was only after reading and researching and hanging out with the breeds that I decided that a V was best for me. 

Since I have decided that a want a Vizsla in my life (for all of the right reasons) I have also started to notice a lot of slight differences between different dogs and I definitely have a specific look that I tend to gravitate toward. I know that no matter which dog I get from the breeder I have selected I will get a dog with a great temperament and hopefully a perfect match to my personality.....but I have also been looking at the pairings of Sire and Dames to see which parents are closes to the "look" that I love.


I would compare this to people who are into sportbikes.......(like myself). To the average person, a bike is a bike is a bike. But to people into them with an appreciation for them.....they can tell them apart in a heartbeat. Just because I want an amazing high-performance machine, it doesn't mean I'm not allowed to prefer how a Ducati looks over a Honda. My first motorcycle wasn't exactly how I wanted my dream bike to look, but holy **** did I have a lot of fun on it and learn a lot with it.


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## doublemocha (Aug 28, 2012)

I agree with Veifera too!

Ok, I am new to all of this so I can only pass on what our breeder mentioned to me a couple of time, if that helps at all.

When I went to see the puppies a few hours after they had been born, I got shown a pile of pictures. Many were of their Vizslas hunting, pointing etc. They also showed me pictures of previous litters. Some of the puppies from within the same litter had significantly more 'domed' heads than others, like they are wearing a little bowler hat inside! Our breeder explained these puppies will usually (in their experience at least) go on to have the chunkier head and stocky look, even if they are the same size as their litter mates at that stage. Ironically, they mentioned the puppies with the more 'delicate' features often get chosen first as the look 'cuter'. Not scientifc, just an observation if it helps at all.

A couple of weeks later we chose our puppy my husband and I were each holding a puppy, mine had a 'bowler hat' head, my husbands didn't. We chose my husbands but, in truth, that's because my husband is a little nervous about getting a dog and he bonded with this pup, both were extremely calm puppies as far as we could see. Given we are first time dog owners, we are happy just to be getting a Vizsla!

I do understand it matters though.

ps - if you could see how many pairs of running trainers I have in the garage which, to my husband, look exactly the same, but to me are built for speed, endurance, off road etc. I understand that analogy


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## colinstab (Sep 10, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j7d7lGKX0g&feature=youtube_gdata_player Something like this one would be ok i suppose


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

Yogi is a very popular sire in the UK - you could always import a pup from one of his litters.


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## doublemocha (Aug 28, 2012)

The first breeder (the one we didn't go with) that we visited had real concerns with just how many puppies that Yogi had sired, they thought far too many, assume they were worried about in-breeding at some stage?


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## colinstab (Sep 10, 2012)

Dont worry i was only joking. I live just down the road from Yogi in the lake district. Definately a gorgeous looking dog but i suppose you dont get best in show at crufts being a heinz 57.


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