# Crufts! What do you think?



## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

In another forum, a picture of Crufts 2012 BOB Vizsla was posted. There was a long silence before anyone said anything... I can't help it but say that I have seen way more beautiful Vizslas than this year's winner. But what do I know?! 

So, what do you all think? Yay or nay? 

ROUGHSHOOT AGILE

Bitch

Owner: MR S J & MRS C CORNWALL


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## polkan (Dec 29, 2011)

The stack is not bad at all. If I _had_ to find something to criticize, I'd say the flews are a bit on the long side. I wonder if there is a difference in the breed standard in the UK compared to here?


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

Suliko, are you trying to say that dog pageants are a farce?


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## polkan (Dec 29, 2011)

Looking at the picture from the AKC website on Vizsla standard. The ears in the US standard seem shorter....


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

polkan said:


> I wonder if there is a difference in the breed standard in the UK compared to here?


Here is the UK Standard: http://www.vizsla.org.uk/ukbreed.htm


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

*Mischa*, no I'm not trying to say the dog shows are a farce  I have been following several European and US breeders and their show success, and this winner just didn't capture my attention. That's why I wanted to see what others think...because I'm no expert


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

The breed standard is perfection in the breed, the judge picks the dog he feels most fits this description, no dog is totally perfect.

We all have our preferences. 

It's about appearance, form, temperament, movement and presence.

I have seen other images that I preffer of her from different angles.

The family who own her bought her as a pet, and had no experience of showing before they started with this dog.

If it was close to perfection I expect that it would have won best in show! 

And I think she is a Yogi off spring.

http://www.roughshoot.com/news.html

Hobbsy


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

*hobbsy1010*, I have to agree about personal preference and that maybe these two photos were not the most successful ones. Would like to see more


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Wonderful looking Vizsla IMO. Beauty or the dog that most closely matches the breed standard?

I think Crufts got it right. 

Which or whose standard? The Hungarian standard is the highest level again in my opinion. It is a Hungarian dog after all. Not an Americanized or other western ideal of the Vizsla. May there never be a British Vizsla and an American Vizsla. I like the Hungarian Vizsla.

Bred to perform the function of hunting all day with horses. I bet the bitch in the OP could!

Top picture is Bailey with 13 pheasant. Lower picture is three Hungarian Vizsla in Hungary after a hunt.

RBD


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

redbirddog said:


> May there never be a British Vizsla and a American Vizsla. I like the Hungarian Vizsla


 Agreed! 

This is one of my favorite Hungarian Vizsla kennels: Skyrocket Kennel http://www.skyrocket.hu/eng-fooldal.htm Just love their dogs!


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I personally like the dogs look.
In the US we seem to be getting away from the original vizsla standard. Breeding smaller, daintier dogs with shorter ears. I for one don't care for the change. I know of an older gentleman that lives not to far from me. He owns vizsla that look like the original. Guess where he is from? I had a opportunity to purchase a female from him but passed because he does not hunt his dogs.
I still think about the pup with the big feet and long hound like ears and wonder if I made the right decision.


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

I believe the dog was born in 2006

UK Tail Docking legislation as at May 2007
All UK legislation has now been passed and enacted as follows;

The docking of dogs' tails was banned in England from 6 April 2007 and in Wales from 28 March 2007 but with exemptions from the ban for certain working dogs, and for medical treatment. A total ban in Scotland took effect 30 April 2007

There is also a ban on the showing of docked dogs (all dogs docked after the commencement date of 6 April/28 March) at events to which members of the public are admitted on payment of a fee. However, this ban does not apply to dogs shown for the purpose of demonstrating their working ability.

The exemption for working dogs allows a dog that is likely to perform certain specified types of work to have its tail docked by a veterinary surgeon. The dog will have to be less than 5 days old and the veterinary surgeon will have to certify that he or she has seen specified evidence that the dog is likely to work in specified areas. Puppies being docked must be microchipped, either at the time of docking or when the vet considers they are old enough. The types of dog that are allowed to be docked and the types of evidence needed, is detailed below.

Puppies from certain working dogs may be docked if evidence is provided to the vet that it is likely to be worked in connection with law enforcement, activities of Her Majesty’s Armed Forces, emergency rescue, lawful pest control, or the lawful shooting of animals. It is accepted that in a litter, not all puppies docked will be found suitable for work.

The owner of the dog, or person representing the owner must make a signed statement that, the dam of the puppies to be docked is of a type which can be certified as set out below, the date on which the puppies were born and that it is intended that they will be used, or sold, for one of the working purposes set out in the regulations.

The vet must sign a declaration that the requirements of the regulations have been satisfied i.e. that he has been given the necessary declaration by the owner or person representing the owner and has seen the evidence required.

The vet must have a completed statement, signed and dated by the owner of the dog (or by another person whom the veterinary surgeon to whom it is presented reasonably believes to be representing the owner), made in the form set out in the regulations. The vet must see the dam of the dog and a further piece of evidence such as:

a current shotgun or firearm certificate issued to the owner of the dog, or to the agent or employee of the owner most likely to be using the dog for work in connection with the lawful shooting of animals OR

a letter from a gamekeeper, a land occupier (or his agent), a person with shooting rights, a shoot organiser, a club official, a person representing the National Working Terrier Federation, or a person engaged in lawful pest control, stating that the breeder of the dog whose tail is to be docked is known to him and that dogs bred by that breeder have been used (as the case may be) on his land, or in his shoot, or for pest control.

Although the procedure is the same, the list of dogs which can be docked are different between England and Wales. There is a total ban on docking in Scotland.

In England the following can be docked: 

1. Hunt point retrieve breeds of any type or combination of types.

2. Spaniels of any type or combination of types.

3. Terriers of any type or combination of types.

In Wales the following can be docked: 

1. Spaniels of the following breeds: English Springer Spaniel, Welsh Springer Spaniel and Cocker Spaniel, but not combinations of breeds

2. Terriers of the following breeds: Jack Russell Terrier, Cairn Terrier, Lakeland Terrier, Norfolk Terrier, but not combinations of breeds

3. Hunt point retrievers of the following breeds:

Braque Italian, Brittany, German Long Haired Pointer, German Short Haired Pointer, German Wire Haired Pointer, Hungarian Vizsla, Hungarian Wire Haired Vizsla, Italian Spinone, Spanish Water Dog, Weimaraner, Korthals Griffon, Slovakian Rough Haired Pointer, Large Munsterlander, Small Munsterlander.

It remains the prerogative of a veterinary surgeon as to whether he chooses to dock a dog’s tail or not.

Showing of Docked Dogs

A dog docked before the 28 March 2007 in Wales and 6 April 2007 in England may continue to be shown at all shows in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland throughout its natural life. 

A dog docked on, or after, the above dates, irrespective of where it was docked, may not be shown at shows in England and Wales where the public is charged a fee for admission.

However, where a working dog has been docked in England and Wales under the respective regulations set out above, it may be shown where the public are charged a fee, so long as it is shown “only to demonstrate its working ability”. It will thus be necessary to show working dogs in such a way as ONLY to demonstrate their working ability and not conformity to a standard.

A dog legally docked in England, Wales, Northern Ireland or abroad may be shown at any show in Scotland or Northern Ireland.

Is the BANDING of tails still legal in the UK?

A lot of breeders are under the misconception that the UK law is akin to the new docking laws in Australia. In Australia it is illegal to surgically remove the tail of as puppy so "banding" is a gray area which breeders have so far successfully defended in court. The UK Acts make it an offence "to remove the whole or any part of a dogs tail", (except for those exempt under the regulations) and our legal advisors state that both cutting and banding are covered by the ban in the main Act.

A person found guilty of an offence under the Animal Welfare Act 2006 (England) shall be liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 51 weeks or a fine not exceeding £20,000 or both

Is Dew Claw removal still legal?

The removal of dew claws is still permitted. In England it is allowed under The Mutilations (Permitted Procedures) (England) Regulations 2007 and in Wales under The Mutilations (Permitted Procedures) (Wales) Regulations 2007.

Both Regulations operate alongside the Veterinary Surgeons Act 1966. As such the removal of dew claws by laypeople (over 18 years of age) or vets, before the dogs eyes are open, is allowed. The regulations state that the procedure must be carried out in the following manner:

(a) in accordance with any relevant requirement in Schedules 2 to 9,
(b) in such a way as to minimise the pain and suffering it causes to the animal,
(c) in hygienic conditions, and
(d) in accordance with good practice.


Pheeeewww  

MRS Hobbsy


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

This is one of my favorite Hungarian Vizsla kennels: Skyrocket Kennel http://www.skyrocket.hu/eng-fooldal.htm Just love their dogs! 
[/quote]

Some of the dogs in the gallery page on the aforementioned website remind me of Pumpkin. She is bigger, although within standard (by 1/2-3/4" :-\), and more muscular than many of the V's I see at V playdates. She is a strong, powerful girl. In fact, she is as big as some of the smaller males.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

I have absolutely no show experience at all, but I agree that her appearance leaves something to be desired (IMO). My favorite Vizslas have very strong Hungarian lineage (part of the reason why I picked our breeder).


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

BIG ears n loose jowls = a big nose that's all I want - never believe in all show n no go!


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

Has anyone had a look at the BOB wire haired vizsla? ;D

http://crufts.fossedata.co.uk/Breed.asp?ShowYear=2012&GroupID=GUN&ScheduleID=58#2012_WHV_BOB.jpg


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

harrigab said:


> Has anyone had a look at the BOB wire haired vizsla? ;D
> 
> http://crufts.fossedata.co.uk/Breed.asp?ShowYear=2012&GroupID=GUN&ScheduleID=58#2012_WHV_BOB.jpg


Now THAT is a beautiful V!


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

Yeh, he's a good 'Looker'.

Looks Tall to me as well. 

Hobbsy


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

*harrigab*, that is a good-looking wire haired V!  

BTW, this year Crufts introduced new vet checks for 15 most high profile breeds. It has stirred up quite some controversy:

http://www.crufts.org.uk/news/basset-hound-fails-crufts-vet-checks
http://www.crufts.org.uk/news/mastiff-and-neopolitan-mastiff-fail-crufts-vet-checks
http://www.crufts.org.uk/news/bulldog-and-pekingese-fail-crufts-vet-checks
http://www.crufts.org.uk/news/clumber-spaniel-fails-crufts-vet-check

More on clumber spaniel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ubTCBN_l1E&feature=player_embedded


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## Melda (Feb 22, 2012)

About time the Kennel club takes some steps to curb inbreeding to achieve the perfect dog, which is based entirely on looks, rather than function and ability to do the job different dogs were bred for in the first place.

I've always wondered how an English Bull dog can ever fight a Bull...until I saw what they actually looked like originally! now they have short legs, flat face, bow legs and can hardly move let alone win a Bull fight. Incidentally, we had an English Bull dog when I was growing up and poor thing died of heart failure at 5 years old. And that's just one breed, there are so many others that are suffering from this absurd strive to achieve purity of bloodlines, which scientifically wrong and unhealthy. 

It makes me angry and sad to see so many breeds struggle to do basic everyday functions due to decades of inbreeding to achieve these so called 'breed standards'. 

Rant over.


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

Just came across Crufts BOB V's picture from the ring, and I have to say that the first two pictures I posted didn't do justice to her. Even though the picture is small, it is a better one. I zoomed in through my phone on FB and got a closer look


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