# 8 month old has turned quite aggresive



## kenny1991 (Dec 30, 2012)

Hey guys, 

I just have a question regarding our 8 month old boy Astro. He is still intact and he is a very good dog. Very good obedience and very well socialised.

We have made a point to socialise him since he was a small pup. He goes to the dog park nearly every day and always is interacting with other dogs.

So lately (last two weeks especially), he has become very aggressive and territorial to other dogs. 

For example, yesterday, I went to the beach with a friend and her dog. Her dog is a GSP and they get on like a house on fire and would run around all day. So when we get to the beach, we see another person we knew with a 2 year old (intact) female Border Coli.

The dog walked up to Astro to say hello (they were both offleash) and without hesitation and he went at the dog. He grabbed it around its neck and wouldn't let go and I finally separated them. Then we tried again (he was on-leash this time) and he showed his teeth and was growling really bad. Once the Coli left, he was fine again with the GSP. It must be noted that the other dog was quite submissive.

Today, we went to the beach again. This time there was about 10 dogs in the groups. Shepherds, GSP's, Staffies, etc. They were running around, going in the water and having a great time. Then a lady turned up with her 4 month old labrador and it was very submissive. She let it off leash and all the dogs went up to it and said hello. Then Astro walked over, the dog submitted and Astro went for its neck and grab it again and hurt the dog. I pulled him off, and he went on the leash. I gave him a time out for 10 minutes and another dog walked up to him in this time (a dog that he was playing with like 10 mins ago) and he again showed his teeth and went for it.

We made a point socialising him and as a younger pup got on so well with all dogs and was never involved in any fights/scuffles. He was actually quite the submissive type himself until about two weeks ago. So why has this changed so quickly?

I am assuming he might be trying to show other dogs whoes boss, and trying to be the dominant one. Is it because of his balls? We want to wait until 1.5 years to get him desexxed but its so hard when he does this now....

It's like he is fine with a few dogs, then another dog turned up and he just goes for it. It also seems to just be females? I think he is scarred of other males and he submits to them.

I don't want to take him out anymore if he is going to continue to fight with dogs.

What do you think we should do? Still socialise him and just monitor where we go and with what dogs? Or get him neutered now? 

 advice needed please.

Then all of a sudden a lady turns up with her


----------



## datacan (May 15, 2011)

once he fought he may always be a fighter but an e-collar helps.

not the best video but gets the message across:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJrdJE1_1RM


----------



## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

would it be an option to slip a muzzle on when strange dogs enter the area? okay this may limit Astro's defence an aggressive dog but he may think twice about attacking.


----------



## kenny1991 (Dec 30, 2012)

mmm we would rather not use an e-collar if we could.... and yeah I guess a muzzle could help.. But he did hate his halti (that we got him when he was a pup for walking) and I think that a muzzle could make him worse?

Its so unusual, because he is such a sweet dog and never has shown any aggression, its just in the past two weeks?


----------



## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

From what you described your pup is not dominat aggressive but fear aggressive. 

Your pup is right at the stage where he is going to try his luck but as soon as he crosses the line he is getting scared and lashing out. 

Putting him on the lead is fine but you need to remove him from the other dogs as being on the lead means he will lash out at every dog!!

I agree a muzzle should be used. Also you need to correct him on this sternly and quick as just removing him won't be enough. So a proper telling off and on the lead. I would even take the option of complete removal. So even if you just got to the park and he does this it is a quick telling off on the lead in the car and home. This is the way to start otherwise you might need to get a proper behaviorist involved if it continues


----------



## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Most of the time these things just don't happen out of the blue. The dogs give small signs over weeks leading up to this point. Its the owners that don't correctly read the signs. A dog showing he is the stronger of the group will walk away after the other dog submits.


----------



## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

TexasRed said:


> Most of the time these things just don't happen out of the blue. The dogs give small signs over weeks leading up to this point. Its the owners that don't correctly read the signs. A dog showing he is the stronger of the group will walk away after the other dog submits.


Which is why I think it is fear aggression and not dominance.


----------



## datacan (May 15, 2011)

TexasRed said:


> Most of the time these things just don't happen out of the blue. The dogs give small signs over weeks leading up to this point. Its the owners that don't correctly read the signs. A dog showing he is the stronger of the group will walk away after the other dog submits.


Tex your reply also belongs here http://www.vizslaforums.com/index.php/topic,10117.msg75627/topicseen.html#new

Please post it there as well... Need to realize its more important to detect the signs before a fight starts.


----------



## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I maybe different from others but I treat all aggression in the same way. I go back to square one on obedience training. It doesn't matter if the dog is dominate or scared, its still aggression. The dog is not looking to me as the master, or the one to protect it.
From the post he said Astro only went after the submissive dogs. I don't see a dog that only attacks the submissive ones as being a fear biter.


----------



## kenny1991 (Dec 30, 2012)

Thanks for the replies guys. Yeah it's a tough one and I corrected him as soon as he was naughty yesterday and put him on the leash and then left. But what else can I do? Should I just monitor who Goes to these play dates with other dogs and basically only go to the ones where we know he won't have any problems. 

It's funny though because honestly when he was a puppy he was very submissive himself. He still is quite submissive when he sees larger dogs (ie, German shepherds) and he will lie down and submit to them. And usually do a submissive wee too. 

So I don't know what's wrong! But I'm getting the idea that this needs to be correctly now! And it won't be helped even if we get him neutered


----------



## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

Miles went through a weird phase around this age too. Began trying to dominate dogs younger than him. Our breeder said that at this age they are not little puppies anymore, so they are trying to climb the dog social ladder, hence the acting out. We had one incidence of resource guarding during this phase as well. 

While controversial on this forum I know, we flipped Miles on his back when he was out of line. He hasn't resource gaurded to us ever since. The puppy thing took a few weeks, but overall I think this is a challenging age. 

He's 20 months now and much much better.


----------



## Nelly (Feb 7, 2013)

I agree with born and Milesmom. While I have a (once submissive) bitch and not a dog, teenage rebellion can be prominent in both, while some teenage stages in both dogs and bitches go unnoticed. Their personalities grow. We are experiencing it right now with Nelly (almost 10 months) and it is clear that she is testing boundaries, with us and then with other dogs recently. 

I am noticing she is 'stancing' with adult dogs and being very mature with puppies. I correct when I see fit. She has recently started to bully my Mother's dog (very submissive in nature and older), I give correction (ah-ah!) and remove for a minute, this is with repetition of course.

I do the same if we meet other submissive dogs and the same thing happens i.e. I need her to know 'bullying' is not acceptable, otherwise how would she ever know. A clear correction and consistent correction is what I find most meaningful, if I correct one time and not the next I start from the beginning. 

Best of luck,
Chloe


----------



## kenny1991 (Dec 30, 2012)

Hey guys,

Bit of an update on the situation. So today, I purposely avoided going to a big meetup with my friends (there was supposedly 10 or so dogs that went), and I opted to take him for a long 6 km walk on leash around the local lake. 

Upon coming back to my car, I decided to enter the local dog park (its right next to the car park and no dogs were in there). Within a few minutes, a couple turned up with their young 4 month old staffie puppy and I initially put Astro back on leash and waited to see his body language, he was wagging his tail and seemed alright. So I let him ofd and they got on fine, Astro was quite boisterous and I did intervene a few times because he was being a bit rough but that was only because he is a strong 8 month old boy.

Then another couple turned up with their 16 month old male boxer. Again I put Astro on the lead, and waited to see his body language, and they both were sniffing each other and wagging tails (going crazy), so I decided to let him off leash and he got on great.

Him and the boxer played really well and they were both very boisterous so they got on well.

Then another lady came in with 2 english pointers (males and 5-6 years old) and again Astro got on great with them and ran around after them and went nuts.

All in all, it was a successful day. I dont know what the difference was to yesterday or last week, but maybe it was just because it was a different location? Also maybe because I put him back on leash to see check his body language. Then, also maybe because I took him for a long walk before (I honestly dont think this did a thing for him haha because he ran around like a spastic at the park!)..

But yeah, its just weird... and also all the dogs today were males? Maybe it is females that tick him off?


----------

