# Aggression to other dogs



## yyy (Oct 25, 2012)

Hello, our 6 months v , that was always with strong / Dominance nature started a new behavior recently, 
She take something she find at the dog park ( stick for example), coming with it to another dog and trying to stimulate him to take it. If the other dog trys she's starting to run and growling making him to chase her. It's always to young dogs /puppy's . 
Today it caused to a fight when the other dog really tried to take the stick. 
What can we do to stop this issue? 
(She is not growling at us in similar situation, but recently she is trying to be really bully at the dog park with young dogs and it's becoming really scary . 


Any suggestions ?


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

yyy, Welcome to the forum.

More on leash long walks in a heel position (behind your left knee) and less, if no, dog parks.

Nothing really good comes from mixing dog parks and Hungarian Pointers. Maybe some more off-leash walks with other pointing breeds in nice open spaces.

I truly dislike dog parks. You are forcing a "pack" of dogs to figure out where they fit in to a dysfunctional pack. Very stressful for a young Vizsla.

A long walk on lead down the street is good for "your pack" dynamics.

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2009/06/importance-of-mastering-art-of-walk.html

Help?

RBD


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

Hi yyy and welcome! 

Your dog's behavior is completely natural and not aggressive (IMO). My Riley girl brings toys up to our other V Cooper and shoves them in his face so he'll play with her. They love to play tug-o-war and steal the toys back and forth. It sounds like the other dog may have been the aggressor when your pup just wanted to play. I've never seen pups who don't want to share their toys bring them to other dogs.

I highly recommend ditching the dog park. I've run into mostly ill-behaved dogs there because the people who go tend to ignore their dogs and just let them do whatever they want. It's a breeding ground for disease, fleas, etc. Find some people in your area who have well-mannered dogs and do some off-leash walks/hikes in some nearby regional parks. It's good for your pup AND you! 

Also, find some other Vizslas or bird dogs for her to play with if possible. They have a very unique play style that many other breeds just don't understand.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

RBD I could not agree more with you.
I learned today that Cash's litter mate Max had to be put down. He was attacked at a dog park by a rott/ great dane mix. His injuries were to bad to save him.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> RBD I could not agree more with you.
> I learned today that Cash's litter mate Max had to be put down. He was attacked at a dog park by a rott/ great dane mix. His injuries were to bad to save him.


So sad and not suprising. Bailey got mugged by dogs repeatedly as a young intact male in our local dog parks until I just couldn't stand it anymore. Two or three dogs would gang up by pinning Bailey between them. He'd have to "fight" his way out. 

That was three years ago. Never again.

RBD


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

That is absolutely horrible, TexasRed! 

To the original poster, that sounds like regular dog play. Oso has a submissive personality, but will often take a toy and circle another dog or try to put it in his mouth to get a chase going or tug-a-war. Some dogs are toy possessive though, so that can end the game. 

I actually really like dog parks, although if you can find dogs who play nicely with yours and you can do play dates that is even better. You certainly run a risk at dog parks as you don't know what other dogs may be there or who their owners are. 

Getting regular play time helps Oso approach dogs in a more relaxed way when we are walking or hiking. We don't have enough opportunity to do play dates with other dogs on a regular basis. 

To minimize the risk, we go during off times of the day (most of the time) and have trained Oso to back off and come on command. We don't let him run up to meet new dogs as their is a lot of nervous energy when they first come in, we don't let him run along the fence and bark at other dogs and have taught him to run away from instead of run over to a dog fight. 

If there is a dog playing too aggressively, we leave or if it's a big park and the dog sticks close to his/her owner, go to the other side. We look before we go in and size up the dogs and I watch while the other dogs play. It's not perfect, there is still risk, but a lot less than just going in blind. 

As to the nay-sayers (and there are a lot), we go quite often and don't see Oso having to find his way into a pack. The vast majority of the time the dogs find another dog that is a good match for them and it looks exactly like one on one play. When dogs gang up, we are out. There are enough well balanced dogs that go to the dog park that this isn't a big problem. Unfortunately, I have found that all our friends who have dogs that just spend time in the house or on a walk aren't well socially balanced and are not that good at playing. If this wasn't the case, we would probably be able to do play dates on a daily basis.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

V's - Catch me if you can - seems to be their nature - the only solution is - know the owner of the other pup first & your on the way to what play is - dog parks are a hard place to figure that one out !


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## zigzag (Oct 4, 2011)

Dog parks are only good for socialization, go on a weekday in the afternoon, you are not there for excercise, only socialization of a young pup. Be prepared to leave immediatly if things dont feel right. This is a training exercise and you should treat it that way. Do not let your gard down do not give up control of the situation at any time. When properly exposed to other dogs you have given your dog a advantage in life. Although a bad experince could lead to problems. Your choice.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Your dog sounds pretty normal for a pointing breed dog. They are very vocal in their play. The other dog has just misread it........


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## yyy (Oct 25, 2012)

Thank you all !
maybe i wasn't clear , few things : we were there with our trainer and its the first time i saw her really fighting for a stick but my puppy is the one who caused the fight ,When the other dog tried to really take the stick. 
It does not seem like a normal behavior to me and also to the trainer - After that she was really tense . 

We have a good trainer but i think she was stubborn with her on the way to the dog park and that might cause her to come tense already. We are not really sure what to do - i dont like the feeling everything can explode every second , however our girl really like to play hard, and also yesterday in the morning she managed to anger another dog and to start a fight while playing hard. 

She does have really "non vizsla" behavior outside - she is really acts like a bully with some dogs , and with the big ones she flatters and licking their face.

When she is playing with another v they are playing nice but she would always be in some point playing with exposed tooth (the other dog stays calm) really don't know why! 

Of course this is really bothering us we are young couple and excepted to a gentle dog , that would be able to run with me in the future (

Another thoughts?


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## yyy (Oct 25, 2012)

Another thing - she is a pure registered v , and we are starting to have an understanding that with this type of behavior and character no one would agree to mate with her.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Is your trainer experienced with V's?? I still think it sounds pretty normal play for a V. When mine play out in public, people often ask if I am going to stop the fight...... I have to explain that they are just playing. They sound like they are trying to kill each other, but they aren't, it's just very vocal play.....


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## jcbuch (Oct 15, 2009)

yyy said:


> Another thing - she is a pure registered v , and we are starting to have an understanding that with this type of behavior and character no one would agree to mate with her.


Yyy, first off i really still think your dog is fine, maybe she is an alpha type female and toy possessive. There are a lot of dogs like this. As you stated she is bullying other dogs that are smaller and licks the dogs that you think intimidate her. It sounds to me she is doing with the stick at first a play thing, but then once challenged her alpha kicks in. Growling and fighting are two very different things, Happy dogs can growl. What is her body language? Is she down on front legs butt in the air, classic canine play behavior or id she hair on neck raised, head high looking to get over the back of the other dog, classic fight posture? I would get with my trainer and do more socialization on leash and introduce toys eventually with this socialization. reward her with proper love and praise and correct her when she responds negatively. It sounds like you have to back up a little in her socialization training before the off leash dog parks. If done properly and now i dont see any reason you couldn't run with this dog in the future. Is this your first V?

Another question i have is this Are you a breeder? I am curious if you are not why are you concerned to breed this dog in the future? 

http://vcaweb.org/about/code_of_ethics.shtml

Joe


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

I also think this sounds like a normal V. 

However if you are not happy with the growling I would suggest you work on her with the 'drop it' command. How is she when you ask her to drop toys?? Does she growl at you?? Dogs socialize differently with humans and dogs however learning drop with you means that if you want to stop a game of keep away then you can command her to drop the toy.


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## yyy (Oct 25, 2012)

Thanks again.. Well if it was a play it was fine , but it was develop to attack there is no other way to describe it.
I never saw her inviting any dog to paly in the classic way with the two leg down on front, she she usually or pointing the other dog as it was a bird or something, licking him or just going straight to his nack - she loves to catch the another dogs in their nacks ..
In the house she knows the commend " drop it" and dont touch but outside she usually run away when she take something she is not suppose to / saw we are trying to take it from her


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

yyy said:


> Thanks again.. Well if it was a play it was fine , but it was develop to attack there is no other way to describe it.
> I never saw her inviting any dog to paly in the classic way with the two leg down on front, she she usually or pointing the other dog as it was a bird or something, licking him or just going straight to his nack - she loves to catch the another dogs in their nacks ..
> In the house she knows the commend " drop it" and dont touch but outside she usually run away when she take something she is not suppose to / saw we are trying to take it from her


Vs and other pointing breeds will run side by side with teeth exposed and on each others shoulders. This normal and Vs will often try this with other dogs to get them to play chase.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

It all sounds like normal V play to me. Riley has been attacked by other breeds (mostly German shepherd) for no reason. Vs tend to look & even sound like they're fighting when they play with each other. Can you get a video up for us of her playing? Without seeing the behavior, we're all just guessing about what's happening.


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## yyy (Oct 25, 2012)

Thats a good idea ill try to do so next time ill take her to the dog park .. Tommorow she'll be in a day off so guess in 2 days..


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## Oquirrh the V (Jun 24, 2011)

Yep, sounds normal to me too. As I remember, 6-8 months was a hard time for me to take Oquirrh to the dog park. (Just a note, our dog park is actually a hiking trail, but nonetheless a "dog park".) He played "very rough" and did always go for the neck. You need to realize, your dog is still a pup. For Oquirrh, he would get really wound up with the smaller/younger pups at that age, but he was much stronger, faster and played harder that it wasn't even fun for the other dog. I agree with others that you need to find dogs that play similar to a V.


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## yyy (Oct 25, 2012)

Yeah but what about the fact that she actually attacked another dog after teasing her and growling when the other dog tried to play and grab the other side of the stick she wasnholding in her mouth..? This definatly isn't a game... And is not supposed to happen!


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Hi Yyy,

We didn't see the behavior, so can only surmise. I am of the opinion that if you and your trainer thought it was aggressive, it probably was. I would say that you need to find a nice stable dog for a playmate and do 1:1 play time instead of the dog park (if you can work with your trainer to find one or ask someone nearby). 

Assertive dogs require a bit more of the owner. If you are not already doing so, you should probably switch to hand feeding your dog and making sure you walk in the door first. You and your spouse should be the clear leaders. Also, having her sit/down or do some command for every positive thing in her life (water, outside, attention). 

Now, I'm not an expert on toy possessiveness, but I'm sure you can find some articles or some suggestions just by searching the forum. Oso had a about of toy possessiveness with other dogs with a certain toy during puppy playtime when he was maybe 5 months. He would start with play and then start growling when the other dogs came by and hold it in a hoarding motion. He wasn't possessive from humans and we simply took that toy away. 

My guess is there has to be some controlled way to introduce toys in a more controlled 1:1 dog setting where you can reinforce good play and correct bad play.

I don't go along with what many on the forum saying that V's just play more aggressively. Perhaps they do instinctually, but if you monitor their play and shape it while they are developing (which I certainly want to do), they learn that they have to stop playing when they growl, etc. 

My guess is you want to have a play/training environment (like a backyard) where both owners can practice commands during play, recall, sit, etc. We use the squirt bottle for corrections as Oso hates it. 

I've done this throughout play ever since he was 10 weeks old and didn't stop. There wasn't a lot that I had to correct, but things such as using his mouth when playing with little dogs (is not allowed), mounting another dog (not allowed) and snarling, only allowed in defense. We also stopped him from running into people's legs (potentially dangerous) and continuing to play with a dog who is clearly mad at/annoyed by him. We paired the water bottle with a "eh eh" sound and typically only have to say "eh eh." and he stops what he is doing and then we say, "good boy" and he does his tail waggle and gets praise. 

Those are my thoughts, I'm def. not an expert. If you have a good trainer, they should be able to set up some of that or design it so its most effective.


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## SteelCityDozer (Aug 25, 2011)

As far as pointing other dogs I don't think there's anything wrong with that. My little one does it or else she'll hunker down stalking other dogs and pounce at them when they run by. She'll also try and jump on larger dogs' backs. But I know it's all in play, and so do the other owners. At home my two get VERY loud and VERY rough. I'll try to remember and record to night for comparison.


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## Oquirrh the V (Jun 24, 2011)

yyy said:


> She does have really "non vizsla" behavior outside - she is really acts like a bully with some dogs , and with the big ones she flatters and licking their face.


Just curious what non-vizsla behavior means? Also, what do you mean by "she attacked the other dog"? Did she bite the other dog? Show some teeth? Growl? Just curious. I only ask because I seriously thought I had a dog from **** and that he was an aggressive, mean dog. I thought those things because I had no idea what kind of dog I was getting myself into - and that was thinking I had done tons of research. Like someone else asked, has your trainer worked with many Vizslas? It seems strange...to me...that your dog would intiate the other dog to play and then turn aggressive. Anytime Oquirrh has become object aggressive he has always tried to get away from whomever was trying to take the toy/stick, he would not take the toy to the other dog/person.

You also mention her licking the faces of older/bigger dogs. I knew a very aggressive dog that would lick Oquirrh's face, the other dog was not submitting to Oquirrh by any means.

I guess my point is, maybe you are mis-understanding her behaviour. I don't know, though.


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## flynnandlunasmom (May 28, 2012)

When my Flynn has been aggressive towards other dogs, he has pinned them down. He doesn't bite but he pins down and growls. Not sure if that's what you mean by "attacked" but am wondering if it's similar to this behavior? My Flynn is a bit of a bully. We don't really let him socialize much with other dogs we don't know. His adored his little sister now but he used to try to pin her and bully her when she was a new pack member - we never let him though.


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## jcbuch (Oct 15, 2009)

yyy said:


> Thats a good idea ill try to do so next time ill take her to the dog park .. Tommorow she'll be in a day off so guess in 2 days..


just curious if you are concerned about this why are you going back to this dog park so quickly?


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## yyy (Oct 25, 2012)

It was really hard to see whats was exctly going on but i guess she tried to bite the other dog ( she did not managed to however, because the trainer stop them , she did not pind down as the other dog also responded ..

We've used to go to the park twice a day , and been told to go now only 3-4 times a week , when she is after a walk...


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

Your pup is young and I agree with the others that without seeing the behavior it is near impossible to really know what is happening. 

One thing I just want you to take away is that you own a high powered hunting dog now. With this means that your pup is a athlete and therefore won't be able to play with certain dogs. She will have tons of energy and be very vocal in play. Showing teeth, throwing her weight into other dogs in a spinning fashion, wanting to put her teeth on their shoulders and neck. Your pup will pester other dogs while she is young to play. This will include bringing toys over then growling and running off or if the other dog wants to play it could result in both pups growling. As Ozkar stated sometimes dogs playing sounds like they are fighting. 

Has your trainer worked with pointing breeds before? Is this your first dog?


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## yyy (Oct 25, 2012)

Thank you , it does my first v , i did not ask the trainer directly is she had worked before with pointers but anyway we need to find another one now so we'll check it with him/ her
We are still wondering if to take one who works only with positive methods or not.. What do you all think about that ?


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## jcbuch (Oct 15, 2009)

yes always with positive methods, if you can find someone who has experience with Vizslas even better ; 

Joe


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## SteelCityDozer (Aug 25, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8h1vnPuDu0&sns=em 

Tried to get a video of rough play but they stop as soon as I get my phone. So here's a small piece an you can see that they're loud and Dozer is "showing teeth" but all in play.


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## SteelCityDozer (Aug 25, 2011)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plcp&v=sbRU78_Nv_g

And this is what it looks like when Penny is trying to get Dozer to play. But this is just funny.


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

Hi, *yyy*! I think I can relate to your issue... My 10 month-old Pacsirta displays similar behavior around certain dogs, and it isn't a Vizsla at play. She does exactly the same thing - will take a stick or a toy and will tease other dogs, but as soon as the other dog tries to take it away, she does this full blown attack, but no biting. I have seen it happen twice, and my husband has seen it happen twice, too. Usually, it is with smaller dogs. She really loves big dogs. 
To ensure this doesn't happen, we try to avoid certain dogs. We also don't go to dog parks. We watch her body language as she interacts with other dogs and don't let her get possessive of things during a play. It happens very rare, but when it does happen, it is really nerve wrecking because she is such a sweet puppy in every other way. She never displays this behavior with other Vs and pointers or our oldest V Sophie in the house. She is never aggressive towards children or people in general. We can remove bones and food whenever we want, and she'll just lick our faces while we're doing it.
But there is just something about certain dogs that just sets her off, and the key is to learn your puppy and to watch for any warning signs in order to avoid such situations in the future. Good luck!


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## yyy (Oct 25, 2012)

Hi suliko , 
it does sound the same!! Also only to small medium dogs and young defently not a play when doing so.

We are now going to the dog park only in the mornings where there are only few dogs which i know , and we started to use water gun when she is starting to play to hard in our opinion / it does working for now , people even asked me today whats going on with her as she is so calm! 
Do you all think its a good way to distract her?
We also using again Halti during our walks - its like a magic on her.


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## yyy (Oct 25, 2012)

Need to say she also very soft at home and with children licking them all, and for now does not really care about food,toys in the house.


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## yyy (Oct 25, 2012)

SteelCityDozer said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8h1vnPuDu0&sns=em
> 
> Tried to get a video of rough play but they stop as soon as I get my phone. So here's a small piece an you can see that they're loud and Dozer is "showing teeth" but all in play.


Saw the videos  well they are really cute! However its not the same situatiom as they livetoghter anfd its in the house ..!


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## jcbuch (Oct 15, 2009)

yyy said:


> We are now going to the dog park only in the mornings where there are only few dogs which i know , and we started to use water gun when she is starting to play to hard in our opinion / it does working for now , people even asked me today whats going on with her as she is so calm!
> Do you all think its a good way to distract her?
> We also using again Halti during our walks - its like a magic on her.


I very much like the water gun approach as a correction to her negative behavior. As long as it is effective in stopping the negative response, she should realize that her behavior is unacceptable. I would continue to do this in as controlled and as Stress free setting as you can with as few dogs as possible. As more dogs will likely get her excitement lvl up faster. The most important is the timing of the correction with the behavior.

Joe


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## AlmaPup (Sep 18, 2012)

threefsh said:


> Also, find some other Vizslas or bird dogs for her to play with if possible. They have a very unique play style that many other breeds just don't understand.


This is so true! Alma ran like crazy today with another Vizsla and a beagle. It really made us both happy.
When I walk her and take her off leash with my friends poodle, they don't seem to get each other. Alma gets into her "lets play" position, and the poodle just ignores her.
But the Vizsla from today seemed to get it perfectly


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## MDR (Nov 15, 2012)

Hello

My partner and I adopted a 9 month Vizsla (mix) from the dog shelter, we named him Tobie! Tobie was found in the streets when he was a month old and taken to the shelter. He was in the dog shelter for 9 months until we saw him online and decided to adopt him.
He's now 14 months old. Tobie was never socialized nor trained while in the shelter, knowing this, we went ahead and rescued him anyway. We have had some training and he is now house trained, some commands and fairly protective of the household.
Our BIGEST problem is Tobie seems very aggresive towards other dogs while on leash. We have taken him to the dog park and he's ok with other dogs. He plays and socialize when in dog park but NOT while on leash. HELP!! What can we do to help him with aggresive 
leash behaivor?


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