# Hungarian Pointers in the Minority



## redbirddog

The Hungarian Vizsla is a great "family dog" according to some recent articles. Good with kids and smart. The ability to learn many things well.

The Hungarian Pointer (same name with different effect) is loosing the battle as a strong ancient hunting dog in my part of the world. 

Here in California, there are hundreds of Vizslas that live out their lives without ever seeing a upland bird or tapping into the talents nature and excellent selective breeding had created over 1,000 years ago.

Those of us that use our dogs as hunters are in the smallest minority.

A small band of misfits (Hungarian Pointer Owners) mingle amongst the more dedicated German Shorthair, German Wirehair, English Pointer, and Britney owners. The ratio of hunting owners to "pet" owners in those breeds, in relationship to the Hungarian Pointer, seems to be overwhelming in favor of hunters. Breeders focus on the hunting talent in the lines and not on what would be considered more trivial attributes.

The Vizsla is an amazing hunter. My wish is for those who come across this post and have ever even considered getting out into the field with your dog, that you make the effort.

Join your local Vizsla club. Take a Hunter safety course. Attend some field trials. Find a trainer

The breed needs you. Don't we have enough lap dogs in the world? HSUS is focusing on California.


Freedom to hunt could be gone along with freedom to carry guns. Being in a minority is tough but I'm alright with that. 
*Freedom to _________ * is much more important
*than Freedom from _______.*
_"We are going to use the ballot box and the democratic process to stop all hunting in the United States ... We will take it species by species until all hunting is stopped in California. Then we will take it state by state."_Wayne Pacelle, Senior VP Humane Society of the US (HSUS) 


http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2012/07/hungarian-pointer-in-minority.html


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## texasred

Yes the truth is we are out numbered and they are trying to take away our rights. Too many foolish people in this country that are willing to follow someone that is crazy.
Show them a picture. They will send their money to help without investigating the full story. So much blood was shed for us to have these rights and they are just willing to hand over so freely.


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## R E McCraith

and GOD made KENTUCKY - allowed to conceal carry - castle law to protect home and property - over 120acs of public dove fields within 20 min of home - 4 WMA within an hour - friends with pups that love to hunt - this may be heaven - but HOT as **** right now LOL


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## datacan

"Humans are the only species on earth that follow unstable leader... dogs follow only stable leader" - Caesar Millan


\


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## harrigab

Great post RBD, welcme back


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## threefsh

I agree wholeheartedly, although there is a flip-side to the issue that concerns me as well. I see more and more Vizslas bred as hunters OR companions. They were designed to be BOTH companion & hunter. They aren't GSPs to be left in kennels outdoors but they aren't simply snuggly lap dogs. They have a dual purpose in life, which I hope can be preserved somehow.


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## harrigab

threefsh said:


> I agree wholeheartedly, although there is a flip-side to the issue that concerns me as well. I see more and more Vizslas bred as hunters OR companions. They were designed to be BOTH companion & hunter. They aren't GSPs to be left in kennels outdoors but they aren't simply snuggly lap dogs._* They have a dual purpose in life,*_ which I hope can be preserved somehow.


that pretty much sums up what I want for Rubes


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## Aimless1

They may exist, but I have never seen or met a pointing dog bred for hunting that also wasn't a wonderful companion. No surprise as they need to be wonderful companions in order cooperate in the hunt.

Bigger issue IMHO is the startling decline in hunter numbers. We are failing to replace ourselves as we retire from the hunt. No bird hunters means no need for pointing dogs who hunt.


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## dmp

Nobody - or precious few today - hunt for more than mere sport. Sure sports are important...they are fun. My people still practice their sun ceremonies; others still build their long houses, their totems. My people hone their crafts and skill using primitive methods.

We do the things we do on occasions to preserve the past.

We do the things every day for simply the love of living. Today. As things are. 

When the season changes and what we have is no longer what we really want, our instincts - the very spirit of our ancestors will draw from within us the power, the passion, the necessity to hunt, to kill, to eat and to give thanks.


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## harrigab

dmp said:


> Nobody - or precious few today - hunt for more than mere sport. Sure sports are important...they are fun. My people still practice their sun ceremonies; others still build their long houses, their totems. My people hone their crafts and skill using primitive methods.
> 
> We do the things we do on occasions to preserve the past.
> 
> We do the things every day for simply the love of living. Today. As things are.
> 
> When the season changes and what we have is no longer what we really want, our instincts - the very spirit of our ancestors will draw from within us the power, the passion, the necessity to hunt, to kill, to eat and to give thanks.


I guess I'm one of the precious few then, yes I get pleasure and good sport out of hunting, rarely, if ever, get joy out of the kill, but ultimately it all ends up on the table here.


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## dmp

Keep going, Harrigab.  Good skills. Great to connect to nature like that.


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## harrigab

She gave this a good sniffing, doubt she'll be able to help me in the future with this particular hunting though lol


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## texasred

threefish
There are things hunters can do to pass on the tradition.
We help with youth hunts every year. The kids are only required to have a 7 dollar youth hunting licence. These are free guided hunts for a full weekend of fun.


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## texasred

dmp said:


> Nobody - or precious few today - hunt for more than mere sport. Sure sports are important...they are fun. My people still practice their sun ceremonies; others still build their long houses, their totems. My people hone their crafts and skill using primitive methods.
> 
> We do the things we do on occasions to preserve the past.
> 
> We do the things every day for simply the love of living. Today. As things are.
> 
> When the season changes and what we have is no longer what we really want, our instincts - the very spirit of our ancestors will draw from within us the power, the passion, the necessity to hunt, to kill, to eat and to give thanks.


Its not the kill that keeps me hunting. Ive laid in a frozen field goose hunting with my dog and friends. Shot nothing, and had a good time. I let someone that doesn't get to hunt as much as me take the shots. Then sent my dog for the retrieves.


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## R E McCraith

RBD is back & much more mellow after his vacation ( LOL ) without a minority opinion we would never have an opinion of our own - the common thread on this forum is we love R V - for me the V is my companion and hunting dog - nothing less and so much more - do I want to convert non hunters to hunters NO!! just want to have you put your V in the field and see what they were bred for !


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## dmp

Ya know? if my knees worked well enough...I might take-up birding.


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## R E McCraith

DMP - surgery or a ATV - C U in the field soon LOL


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## Ozkar

DMP, not trying to be a martyr, but I have a horrible illness which effects most of the joints in my body. Some mornings it takes me an hour to just get out of bed, but I still manage to take my dogs hunting regularly. Sometimes yes, it is with tears in my eyes from the pain. But, it's all countered when i see the look in their eyes as we stalk a Deer.  

If I can hobble around slowly in the bush for a few hours, what's the bet you could stroll casually through a field of birds. If your pup is solid on point, they won't mind you taking a few extra minutes to get to the flush and shoot.........  

Painkillers are your friend!!


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## dmp

oz - I tell ya...yup.

Canada - the land to my SOUTH (partly)...the land of 222's. When the Veteran's Administration fails to find an appointment, SOME veterans travel to canada for those 222s...do a good job of taking the edge off.

True story - when I go to the VA complaining about my knees, I'm usually beside a fellow without knees...legs... makes me feel like a baby for complaining.

Regards!!

-d


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## Suliko

*redbirddog*, great post! Welcome back! 
I have a question to those who hunt with their Vs. It is my understanding not ALL Vs posess great hunting skills. There are Vs bred for hunt, and there are Vs bred just for show, and then there are puppy mills. It is also my understanding that even among Vs with great hunting bloodlines, there are Vs that will not be great performers in the field. I have read on this forum and other places about field trial wash-outs and Vs being thrown out because they are not good hunters. SO, my question is, why does it happen? Why can't these dogs become just loving pets and companions to those people? Why do they need to be "thrown out" or put up for adoption? 

Thank you


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## redbirddog

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/07/why-field-trials.html

Suliko,
Excellent questions!

I will try and answer the questions when I get home tonight and have a bit of time after I walk the dogs. 

Take a look at the above post I did a couple years ago on my blog to start the explanation.

RBD


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## dmp

Good read!

I can't shake the feeling though - even while reading what Reinhardt wrote - it's inherently selfish of the human. Same, I suppose with Dog shows, etc. Feels like Humans transfer a LOT of their joy and imply it somehow (without a metric to measure) applies equally to the dog.

Do folks love hunting with their V's? Of course. Silly question. 
Do V's love pleasing their human partners? Empirical evidence suggests that's the case - id est - We see what we translate as 'happy' from a dog. We observe the dog's behaviour and assign values. 

I have trouble figuring out if a dog can 'compete' at events...subjectively or objectively 'graded' or 'scored'...and the dog have any idea it's competing at all? 

I hear frequently "Oh! Fido LOVES the dog shows! He prances around and does great!" 
Me thinking "...maybe he just loves getting the treats you give him/bribe him with? Maybe he simply does what he's told in absence of feelings like 'love'?"

I suppose I have no clear definition of when I'm helping Aoife do what she's impulsed to do; when she's being 'herself'...and when she is simply a drone following orders? I'll need to come to terms with that someday, I suppose. 

But - very thought provoking, RBD. Has me thinking, at least. At least that's what I call it.


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## Suliko

*redbirddog*, thank you for the good read! Can't wait to read more


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## redbirddog

DMP,

Two audio books I could suggest both by the same author:

"A Dog's Purpose" and now the sequel "A Dog's Journey"

I listen to audio books often during the 2+ hour dog walks I do up in the hills. Dog books are great. If you get to a sad part and tears come down no one sees it. It would be a bit strange for someone to walk by me as a sob leaves my mouth. 

Working dogs like in Search and Rescue have a purpose in life. Does it make them happy to do "their job?" A bomb or drug sniffing dog happy? Police K-9 dog, and all the other ways dogs "work". Does it make them happy?

But they have a purpose. Do they like doing what they do? 

Just food for thought.

RBD


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## dmp

Right - that's the question - 

What is canine happiness. How is happiness defined; measured.

If Dog BombSquad is 'x'-Happy, is Dog LapSquad 'X-minus' Happy?


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## redbirddog

From a response to my blog post on this subject that I thought I should share.

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2012/07/hungarian-pointer-in-minority.html

akgvizslainspiration said...


> What a great post bringing up a very good point. This is the exact reason that if I do breed Luna next spring I have already told the breeder I want hunt behind the sire. She has hunt in her, even if I don't have as much time to get her the ribbons she deserves (though we will attack that again this fall)... and I HATE seeing how the hunt is being bred out of these dogs, and they are simply going to family homes.... when you get to see how much these dogs LOVE to hunt IMO it just is not right to not let them taste that at least a little.
> And while some push these dogs as being good family dogs, they don't get to hear of how many breeders are rehoming dogs because babies/kids came along. I wish this breed would go back to the "rarity" it was just 4 years ago when i first got Luna. We need more Vizsla owners who will do this fine breed justice.
> 
> PS. that whole banning hunting thing is insane, didn't know it was that bad there. So sad


Anna
www.akginspiration.com


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## R E McCraith

dmp - rbd - bomb or dope sniffing dogs are just a extention of what they were bred for - great nose - the vast majority of these dogs live with the handler and their family - when retired a lot stay with the handler - are they happier than a lap mutt - I think so - they have a purpose and a job to do - the usual reward is a toss of their toy - at the end of the day they will never be wrist candy - for me and my V's bred to hunt and hunt them I do - just a small part of their time with me but the best time for them - a bird to hand is my reward for letting PIKE do what makes him happy


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## threefsh

Dogs do what we bred them to do. Does this mean they're "happy" when they fulfill their purpose? Well, only dogs can know that, but judging by what we know of their body language I'd say Riley has a blast out in the field hunting for birds.

If you want a simple lap dog, then buy a lap dog such as a Pekingese.

The Vizsla was bred as a hunter & companion - you can't take a wolf into your home and make cuddle with you - why would you get a Vizsla and not let it hunt? ???


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## texasred

How do I know my dogs love to hunt?
Its an excitement that comes over them when I start getting ready to leave the house for a hunt.
They don't do this when I leave to go to the store or any where else. They know what we take hunting and stick to me like glue if they see any of it. They have a bounce in their step. They will almost lose all manners if they think they might be left at home. If I have the truck loaded and the start it up with them still in the house, they will leap and bark at the front door. They know its not allowed and its the only time they do it.


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## redbirddog

> I have read on this forum and other places about field trial wash-outs and Vs being thrown out because they are not good hunters. SO, my question is, why does it happen? Why can't these dogs become just loving pets and companions to those people? Why do they need to be "thrown out" or put up for adoption?


Suliko,
I will try and do my best but not being a long time breeder don't expect much depth in the answer. Chloe was our first Vizsla and we didn't get her until 4 1/2 years ago. There are Vizsla breeders that are multi generational and go back 50 years. These are the folks I love to listen to. You meet these folks at dog shows and field trials. When they talk about their dogs, the sparkle appears in their eyes and their breeding successes and failures they can detail over the last 30+ years.

"YOGI the Vizsla" won Crufts a couple years ago. My friends John and Juliet, who live in the south of England wrote me. They own a couple of great Vizslas. John said how sad he was. He told me after I wrote how the Vizsla looked too "dainty" at the Westminster Show the following year on my blog.



> ,Be grateful the Viz, dainty or otherwise, didn't win and that as a result rescue isn't filling up with dogs mis-purchased by people seduced by the look and notoriety...


Profits were to be made. Buy low and sell high. Produce as much as the market could bear. Puppy mills could be set up over night and bitches could be bred every cycle. Sires with some type of "papers" could be secured for a few pounds. The more people demanded a Vizsla the more enterprising folks with minimal understanding of breeding or the breed were going to "cash in."

Does the dog hunt? Who cares! It's red and good looking. Great eye candy and could be sold as "good with kids." The perfect family dog. Come one, come all. THE VIZSLA! THE DOG YOU WANT!

So the breed weakens. The gene pool of quality Vizslas diluted with puppy mill males and females. These puppy mill males and females then produce more pups. Now we see health and temperament issues. People now are getting Vizslas that are sickly and ill tempered.

The Hungarian Pointer, once a noble hunting dog goes the way of many great dogs. Common puppy mill pet store commodity.

Is that what the general _*Hungarian Vizsla Forum*_ community wants? A really popular common dog?

For me, I'll enjoy being in the minority and hunt and train my Hungarian Pointer to be the best bird dog he can be.

Now off for our walk. Found some quail coveys yesterday. Will see if they are there tonight.

If I offend some, I apologize up front. Just how I was, am, and will be.

RBD


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## Ozkar

I have to agree with RBD. However, I for one certainly never decided on having a Vizsla join my family for the sole purpose of hunting. As a matter of fact, after all my time growing up on a farm, the last thing I wanted to do was kill one more animal. 

However, over the last two years of having one, then two Vizslas and then adding a GSP to the brood, it has opened my eyes. It has altered my perspective and my subsequent thinking. 

We walk rain, hail or shine, summer or winter, two hours minimum per day, often longer. It was on these walks, while watching my dogs that my mind slowly started to shift it's thinking on hunting with the dogs. To watch them, in the bush without any prior training, putting their nose to the ground searching for a scent. To see them raise to a point and hold it to let me know there was prey there all conspired to cause me to totally re evaluate my dog's purpose. 

I could have had very happy dogs without any hunting, I am sure. After all Ozkar isn't really in the hunting mix as he misses out on a lot of the time and training. But, is he any less happy than the others. I doubt it. But, would he enjoy hunting, you bet!! He loves it. Sure, he will have a happy life without it, but with it, it's a happy and more purposeful life. That is not to say a V cannot be as happy without it, but, it's the purpose which is important more than the actual activity.

Having said all that, I doubt I could go back, knowing what I know now. My dogs are just beside themselves when I even mention the "H" word!! "Let's go hunting" is now an obvious favourite to hear. A word that has them hinging in the middle and has little Astro whining with eagerness to get out and find some prey. The reaction is obvious and cannot be confused with a desire to just make me happy. They truly are beside themselves whenever we go out hunting/walking where there are animal scents to track. 

Just yesterday on a walk here in the city, they pointed on bird. It was an introduced bird called an Indian Minor. Horrible things they are. Pests. So once I got to where they were pointing, I sent them after it. Zsa Zsa was quick and she nabbed it!! The look of joy on both their faces and the obvious positive body language displayed, tells me it has very little to do with making me happy and a lot to do with their own personal satisfaction. 

If you believe that they hunt to make us happy, I am of the opinion that you are wrong!!!! They hunt because they enjoy it. 

Hence, for as long as I and they are able to, we will hunt at every opportunity. 



On the dilution of the breed traits. I have also seen just over the past two years the increasing awareness of the Vizsla in the general population. More and more people now come up and ask if that is a Vizsla. Just two years ago, the majority of questions from people were, "What sort of dog is that?" 

I have changed my response now too. No longer to a say that it is a Hungarian Vizsla, nor even a Hungarian pointer. Now I tell everyone who asks, "It's a highly strung hunting dog..........a real handful they are"   

While I never want to be isolationist, I believe we as Vizsla owners and breeders, need to protect and buffer these dogs from ever becoming another designer pet!!! If that offends anyone who bought their V as a designer pet, then just suck it up princess, as I will not change my tune!!!!  


I truly hope, that more and more of you are able to have your eyes and minds opened up to the true purpose of a Vizsla. While not all will be "Great" hunters, all of them are able to hunt. Just because they cannot win a field trial, does not mean they cannot be a great hunting companion for us! I doubt any of mine would excel in a field trial. But I can tell you, that they hunt to a level that is satisfactory to me.


Protect, develop and improve are my mantras for saving the V from the horrible fate that is designer dog ownership.


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## redbirddog

Ozkar,
You are truly a much better writer. When you write "A Real Handful of Dog Down Under" I'll help you edit it. :

A bumper sticker

*"Hungarian Pointer - No designer dog here."*


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## jakersmomma

TexasRed said:


> How do I know my dogs love to hunt?
> Its an excitement that comes over them when I start getting ready to leave the house for a hunt.
> They don't do this when I leave to go to the store or any where else. They know what we take hunting and stick to me like glue if they see any of it. They have a bounce in their step. They will almost lose all manners if they think they might be left at home. If I have the truck loaded and the start it up with them still in the house, they will leap and bark at the front door. They know its not allowed and its the only time they do it.


Jake does the same thing when we leave to go to the boat....I asked him just today "One head nod if you want to stay home, two if you want to go to the boat" He nodded twice, then repeated his show for my husband.....Obviously, I'm being silly here but you can pretty much get your V excited about anything that he is going to do with you that keeps him active and makes him feel he belongs!!!

Not to say they should not hunt. I do believe they were born to hunt so why curtail those natural instincts. While I'm not a hunter nor is my husband, I certainly do encourage Jake to "hunt" while we are on our hikes. In fact, we took Jake to a pheasant farm and he was scared to death of the bird. He's also scared to death of the sound of a firecracker so I'm not sure how a gun would be at this point. He does love to point and chase rabbits, birds etc so I guess that's all for him.....................for now.


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## Ozkar

redbirddog said:


> Ozkar,
> You are truly a much better writer. When you write "A Real Handful of Dog Down Under" I'll help you edit it. :
> 
> A bumper sticker
> 
> *"Hungarian Pointer - Not designer dog here."*


RBD, I have said this before. I am humbled that you would consider me competent and interesting enough to actually write a book and then to also offer the editing. I truly have never considered myself to have enough knowledge, experience or skill to write a book and especially one on as complex a subject as a dog, let alone a Russet Gold ball of highly strung hunting energy!!!  But, you have my creative juices stirring, so you never know. I am about to embark on a 'Tree Change" and get out of the city, so perhaps it's not a silly idea. Maybe writing could be part of the "Tree Change"  mmmmmmmm????????/


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## R E McCraith

with the forums newest member Joshyeo - we get a new member for the minority - 18yrs old and looking for a GUNDOG ( my favorite term when asked what a V is ) and chose a V - their is hope for all of us!!!


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## texasred

jakersmomma
Yes they do enjoy outings but ones that haven't had the hunt bred out of them will pick hunting over everything else.
My June dislikes thunderstorms. Last week we had one and she acted more frightened than normal. Most of the time I can just turn the radio on and she will lay quietly. Lighting hit a transformer close to the house. She wanted to hid under the bed. I went outside and got a quail from the cage and clipped its flight feathers. I took it to the bedroom and held it where she could get a big whiff of scent. The smell of the bird brough her out from under the bed. She was sniffing it in my hand and getting excited. I did quail retrieves in the my long hallway with her. She was happy tail wagging and never once paid attention to the thunder for the rest of the storm.

Then we have sweet little submissive Lucy. She is content to be the low dog on the totem pole. She will give in to whatever the other dogs want in the house. You can pick her up and roll her around in her sleep. Treat her for anything medical and she will do whatever you ask in the house.
Let her outside and you have a diffrent dog. She doesn't want to play with the other dogs or people. She is on a mission. Its to hunt. If a dog tries to play with her she will ignore them at first. IF they don't get the message she will snap at them. Then go back hunting. She will recall, but the whole time she is standing next to you she is waiting for the touch on her side to be released. She feels no pain when hunting (or chooses to ignore it) and will take on anything that stands in her way.


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## R E McCraith

tex it is a well known fact - a quail a day keeps PIKE off the couch - rbd good vid ty


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## flynnandlunasmom

I have a question about a dog's ability be a good hunting dog? 

When we first got Flynn 7 years ago we didn't know as much as we know now. He was bred by a hunter and was basically bred to hunt. However, the breeder knew he was going to a non-hunting home. As I've said numerous times, Flynn has some temperament issues. In hindsight, maybe he should have gone to a hunting home - but he didn't. He came to us and we fell in love with him. We take him on endless hikes, runs, swims, mountain bike adventures etc. Took him to advanced level training classes, taught him to do amazing feats with a frisbee, tossed balls deep into the woods and have him sniff them out for hours on end, have always encouraged him when he stalks birds etc. Aside from not hunting, he's had a great life. 

Fast forward to Luna who is now 1. She was pretty much bred to be a show dog but again, her breeder knew we weren't going to show her. We never even discussed hunting with the breeder. Well, thanks to Victoria W (Gracie's mom) we got Luna involved in field training when she was about 6 months old and she's done really well. She's going for her JH this fall.

We had the same field trainer assess Flynn (knowing full well at 6.5 yrs it would not be easy to teach an old dog new tricks). He said Flynn didn't have enough prey drive. This is the same dog who caught a bird in the park one day and proudly brought it to his father and stalks every bird and squirrel he has ever seen! I kind of think the reason Flynn didn't do well at his assessment (aside from his age) was that he is so attached to my husband and I, he wasn't able to focus on the trainer. It made me realize if we had been the ones to train him, he probably would have made a fine hunter. But maybe not? 

I guess my question is really about how one dog who was bred to hunt doesn't seem to have what it takes anymore, and another who was not bred to hunt seems to be turning into a little pro at it. It it really all about the age at which you start training more so than an innate ability to hunt? 

It saddens me that we never formally had Flynn trained as a hunter. I always tell him that I promise we'll find him again in his next life when he's a puppy and well do the right thing then!


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## Aimless1

Every puppy is a gamble. Buying a dog bred for the show ring gives you better odds of obtaining a good show dog, but it doesn't always work out that way. Same with hunting dogs.

Several years ago I bought a pup out of stellar grouse hunting lines. Every pup in the litter ended up being the best grouse hunting dog the owner had ever had ... except mine. Poor Patch not only didn't have what it takes to be a top grouse dog, he lacked basic hunting instinct as well. Little to no prey drive, worst nose on a hunting dog I have ever come across and he never pointed any thing.

Even in the litter, some pups will be better than others. All you're trying to do when you choose your pup for a purpose is to put the odds in your favor. If the ingredients are there then how you raise and train the puppy can go a long ways towards helping to produce a top gun dog ... or show dog ... or what ever you're trying to get.


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## texasred

flynnandlunasmom
He may never be a great hunter but you can still get him in the field for fun. Watch very closely on Luna's training. Read some books and work with Flynn yourself.
He might even be a good squirrel dog.


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## Emily1970

I don't hunt my pups, but I am totally committed to making sure my dogs have the best life they could ever possibly have. They are exercised, have the best veterinary care, and we have also alternated our schedules so our dogs don't have to be crated, and every minute of our day is dedicated to them. We have been to heck and back making sure that Riley was fixed so that he can chase all the balls he could ever possibly want without pain. We rescued Chuck from a solitary life in a cage without any veterinary care at all. So everyone please remember, that some of non-hunter owners aren't so bad!


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## redbirddog

> So everyone please remember, that some of non-hunter owners aren't so bad!


Emily, you are part of the majority of Vizsla owners is the point I was making in the OP. I have many Vizsla friends that LOVE and take great care of their dogs. They are very good people.

Just if we loose the intent of the Hungarian Pointer and the strong hunting genes in the pool now, we may never get it back. Some will say, "oh well, things change." But once hunting and hunting dogs are gone in society, they will be gone for a very long time.

Does society want that? Many do and are actively working on hunting's demise. 

I started hunting at the age of 55 and just hunt upland birds. There really is nothing to compare to a crisp fall / winter early morning in a field with a good pointer. Can't explain it, can't video it. An experience every Vizsla owner should have IMHO at least once in their life to really GET the dog they own.

No disrespect at all.

RBD


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## Emily1970

It's ok Redbirddog. Sometimes I'm sensitive. It's been a long year so far for our family. I think Chuck might would have made a good hunter, but sadly, Riley, I believe is just going to be a fun loving lap dog. With all the illnesses and surgeries, our vet says he is just a more frail (his exact words) dog. But he can chase balls and swim and romp whenever he feels like it for the rest of his life. Chuck has a more social life and has many friends he runs with. So hats off to you hunters with your V partners and we will just cheer you on from the sidelines!!


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## redbirddog

Emily,

Chloe (our soft female Vizsla) is Bailey's cheerleader. She is a fantastic swimmer and ball chaser - retriever. She runs the hills and follows Bailey everywhere and except for a slow or stupid ground squirrel will live her life without hunting birds. 

We love her every bit as much as Bailey. 

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2012/07/young-hsps-in-field.html

Most of Bailey and Sophie's pups have gone to non-hunting families.

RBD


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## pippa31

I just wanted to post and say how much I have enjoyed reading this thread. One of the reasons I keep coming back to this forum - I learn something new every time.

A year ago, we didn't even consider training Pippa to hunt. I'm a marathon runner and avid hiker. I wanted a dog who could keep up and LOVE it. And Pippa fits the bill 

A few months ago I was inspired by this forum to have a hunt trainer look at Pippa. He worked with her for one session and told me she probably would not make a great hunting dog - she didn't have a super "high power gear" and was "too soft". Okay. A bit disappointing, but I never thought I would hunt train her in the first place and I do believe she has a great quality of life. And, as TexasRed pointed out, it might be worth learning how to do some field work for fun and working with a trainer so that I know what to do.

I absolutely believe we need to protect the breed as much as possible. I would hate to see the Vizsla turn into the next Golden Retriever or the next Lab. 

Great owners come in all shapes and sizes. Just glad to be a part of a forum that has so many.


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## redbirddog

Pippa31,

This RBD post is for you.

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2012/07/vizsla-devotion.html

Off to a Senior Hunt test in the morning. Also running Belle in Junior Hunter. Belle is a 14 month old female from Bailey's first litter. 

We'll see. It's not the goal but the journey.

Happy trails and trails.


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## R E McCraith

RBD - PIKE goes to his first AKC hunt test in October - seems like time is slowing down LOL


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## pippa31

RBD,

If I could "love" the post on your blog, I would. 

To be honest, I may have had tears in my eyes. There's something about these red dogs 

Good luck to Bailey tomorrow. Keep us posted.


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## redbirddog

*From the AKC website:*

Articles on Pointing Breeds

First Dog to Earn MHA (Master Hunter Advanced Title) – ‘Battue’ VIZSLA

GCH Russet Leather Hunter’s Dance MHA CD RE MX MXJ XF – ‘Battue’

On March 17th, 2012 Battue completed the final leg of his MHA, Master Hunter Advanced, hunting title at the German Shorthaired Pointer Club of Northern Sacramento Valley test in Rio Vista, CA to become the first pointing dog to accomplish this title.

Battue is a five year old Vizsla bred by Jamie Walton, Carol Keller and Beverley Wanjon and owned by Jamie Walton and Jeff Ort. His co-owner Jeff Ort handled him to the MHA title.

Battue has excelled in several AKC venues earning 19 AKC titles in the venues of field, obedience, rally and conformation. He is currently working on his field champion, amateur field champion and master agility championship titles.* A true representation of the versatile vizsla.
*


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## redbirddog

Evening.
Enjoyed a wonderful morning out in the field with maybe 50 pointing breeds at a Northern California Hunt Test.
Great to see many Hungarian Pointers amoung the dogs entered.

Vizslas can be fantastic hunting dogs if taught right. If you want to have a quality hunting Hungarian Pointer than start early and find a trainer you can trust.

A Hungarian Pointer is fantastic in the field. I watched Belle, one of Bailey's female pups, get her second leg of Junior Hunter. She HUNTS naturally. 
We will be back in the field tomorrow at a Senior Hunt test. Tough. But a great hunting dog is worth it. Taking Joanie (my wife) out to Hastings Island to the event and also to shoot our shotgun. THis will be her first time firing a gun. We will use the clubs skeet station. She hasn't tried it before but is game to try.

Win or lose, it is playing the game that matters.

Playin' the game of life.
RBD

PS. We failed in our attempt for the fourth leg of Senior hunter this morning. We'll try again in the morning.


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## R E McCraith

PIKE knows how you feel - in OCT he goes for his 4 legs for JH - good set up - weekend event put on by 2 clubs - run 2 braces sat & 2 braces sun - we hope he does well - will start SH in FEB - just not many events near us - this one is 1 1/2 hr away - most are 8-10 hrs away - doves start sat & have signed up for 4 fun hunts with rules close to AKC field trial rules - he should be ready - let the games begin


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## WillowyndRanch

redbirddog said:


> PS. We failed in our attempt for the fourth leg of Senior hunter this morning. We'll try again in the morning.


I heard he did really well on the _first_ bird...

Good luck today my friend! Give Bailey a butt scratch from me!
Ken


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## texasred

Come on RBD, you can't just post win or lose.
Weather conditions?
The good,the bad, or just down right funny.
Any dogs running with so much style that you just couldn't take your eyes off them that day?


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## AKGInspiration

redbirddog said:


> From a response to my blog post on this subject that I thought I should share.
> 
> http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2012/07/hungarian-pointer-in-minority.html
> 
> akgvizslainspiration said...
> 
> 
> 
> What a great post bringing up a very good point. This is the exact reason that if I do breed Luna next spring I have already told the breeder I want hunt behind the sire. She has hunt in her, even if I don't have as much time to get her the ribbons she deserves (though we will attack that again this fall)... and I HATE seeing how the hunt is being bred out of these dogs, and they are simply going to family homes.... when you get to see how much these dogs LOVE to hunt IMO it just is not right to not let them taste that at least a little.
> And while some push these dogs as being good family dogs, they don't get to hear of how many breeders are rehoming dogs because babies/kids came along. I wish this breed would go back to the "rarity" it was just 4 years ago when i first got Luna. We need more Vizsla owners who will do this fine breed justice.
> 
> PS. that whole banning hunting thing is insane, didn't know it was that bad there. So sad
> 
> 
> 
> Anna
> www.akginspiration.com
Click to expand...

Haha, no idea you shared this response.. but it is true. I forget what the numbers are but the "nose" can be bred out of the dog very quickly.. And even puppies bred for hunt if not shown birds in a decent amount of time can lose that desire to hunt too. I broke many rules by exposing Luna to birds early on. Some say not do it, but I said to heck with it how can it hurt anything? She saw birds from before 10 weeks at least every month, and I KNOW that had an impact on her drive. But each dog is different, I am just happy she enjoys hunting. But I would love her no less even if she didn't.


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## WillowyndRanch

TexasRed said:


> Any dogs running with so much style that you just couldn't take your eyes off them that day?


Nah, My dogs weren't there. ;D
Ken


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## redbirddog

TexasRed,

As Bailey and I walked back to the Jeep with our tails firmly tucked between our legs. We had failed on Sunday.
*Another wild flush and chase*. I just stood there and yelled at Bailey "HEY! KNOCK IT OFF YOU KNUCKLEHEAD!" Then I thanked the judges for their time and leashed Bailey up and out of the bird field we went. 
On the road one of the judges called down to me. "I love to watch a big running dog. You have a really good dog there." I told him I had field trialed for 1 1/2 years and enjoy the big running dogs also. 

The hunt test dogs that passed didn't range more than 60 yards from their handler. Many of them just 20 to 30 yards ahead. Bailey at times would be 100 to 300 yards ahead and hunting. That part put a smile on my face.

Early on when Bailey was 6 months to 2 years old, during puppy and derby field trials, Bailey could and did chase down flushed birds and catch them during field trials. He would then happily retrieve them to me. Judges told me this would create a problem later on. Boy were they right! The wild flush is our downfall.

The wind was blowing 35 to 45 miles an hour on Sunday. The 75 degree temperature was great.

Now pheasant hunting season starts in one month. I'd love to get out on some wild bird hunts this year. The boy and I are ready.

OK! Here is a true highlight!
http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2012/08/junior-hunter-naturally.html


We'll finish off Senior hunter next spring. A friend worked with dogs in search and rescue 20 years ago. He has a Vizsla. We are talking about training our dogs in search for our Community Emergency Response Team groups. Bailey has a great nose. Maybe a very good use for it.

Happy trials,
RBD


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## R E McCraith

PIKE was taught to flush on command ( get em up ) as all of my pups have been - we hunt heavy cover and on wild pheasants that do run after the second point if I am in gun range or someone else in our party I want the bird in the air ! as we start the hunt test trail I know we have a lot of work ahead of us - but not at the expense of putting a wild bird in the air - have confidence in PIKE just need a little more in myself LOL


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## Ozkar

redbirddog said:


> TexasRed,
> 
> As Bailey and I walked back to the Jeep with our tails firmly tucked between our legs. We had failed on Sunday.
> *Another wild flush and chase*. I just stood there and yelled at Bailey "HEY! KNOCK IT OFF YOU KNUCKLEHEAD!" Then I thanked the judges for their time and leashed Bailey up and out of the bird field we went.
> On the road one of the judges called down to me. "I love to watch a big running dog. You have a really good dog there." I told him I had field trialed for 1 1/2 years and enjoy the big running dogs also.
> 
> The hunt test dogs that passed didn't range more than 60 yards from their handler. Many of them just 20 to 30 yards ahead. Bailey at times would be 200 to 400 yards ahead and hunting. That part put a smile on my face.
> 
> Early on when Bailey was 6 months to 2 years old, during puppy and derby field trials, Bailey could and did chase down flushed birds and catch them during field trials. He would then happily retrieve them to me. Judges told me this would create a problem later on. Boy were they right! The wild flush is our downfall.
> 
> The wind was blowing 35 to 45 miles an hour on Sunday. The 75 degree temperature was great.
> 
> Now pheasant hunting season starts in one month. I'd love to get out on some wild bird hunts this year. The boy and I are ready.
> 
> OK! Here is a true highlight!
> http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2012/08/junior-hunter-naturally.html
> 
> 
> We'll finish off Senior hunter next spring. A friend worked with dogs in search and rescue 20 years ago. He has a Vizsla. We are talking about training our dogs in search for our Community Emergency Response Team groups. Bailey has a great nose. Maybe a very good use for it.
> 
> Happy trials,
> RBD


I can't believe the similarities of Bailey's hunt drive and Zsa Zsa's. She is also a hard running girl and flushes for me on command. She rarely misses a bird in the grass now and the Quail are just coming up as I type. Astro however, is more like the other dogs you described. rarely more than 20-40 metres from me. He also flushes on command and is probably a little more steady to wing than Zsa Zsa, but, they both do enough to keep us all hunting.

I have found a game ranch in southern Victoria which allows pheasant shoots with the bow (It's illegal everywhere else in Oz to hunt birds with a bow). So come October, I might pop down for a few days and see if the three of us can't grab some Pheasant.


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## texasred

I've never encouraged Cash to flush a bird. I have released him off point to relocate a runner. If I let him flush it, it would be on and I could see him breaking even when not told to.
My daughter lets her dog Lucy chase anything her heart desires when she runs her. I still work Lucy on game birds but know that she will never come to her full potential with her letting her do that.
I caught her looking at a airplane in the distance last week.
Once she realized it was not a bird she went back to hunting.


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## cadet

I'm not home from my working holiday yet to pick up my Maggie, but I fully intend she'll regularly earn her keep on stubble quail and hares in the Western district. Probably ducks too; maybe the odd fox drive or deer stalk; even a pig now and again...



Ozkar said:


> ...I have found a game ranch in southern Victoria which allows pheasant shoots with the bow (It's illegal everywhere else in Oz to hunt birds with a bow). So come October, I might pop down for a few days and see if the three of us can't grab some Pheasant...


Ondra or Vic Range? I've shot on Ondra before.
Pheasants with a bow?! They can be hard enough with a shotgun...


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