# Steady to wing



## veifera (Apr 25, 2012)

A question for the field folks: I'm training for JH with my 6 months old puppy. She's everything I could ask for in the field - searching hard, locking scent very well, pointing and holding the point as I approach and flush. I've introduced her to the starter pistol without any problem and she retrieved quail she managed to catch - to hand! - on a couple of occasions. I'm very very happy with her (and very proud, but that goes without saying). 

And of course since she's so young, she loves to chase, which is something we will work on when the time comes - I let her chase to her heart's content.

But now that I'm getting the hang of this, I'm starting to wonder if if there is a way to pre-train steady to flush when throwing ball for her to chase. 

She's crazy about chasing and retrieving but I may encouraging her to chase. I tease her with the ball first and she starts running as soon as I throw it. 

So here's my question - is there a way to play-train her to wait with the chase until I tell her? I've tried out a couple of ideas but the passion and energy were clearly not there for her. We've been very successful play-training to retrieve and it seemed to have started to transfer to the field. So I was curious if something similar can be done with steady to wing... 

Or is this something that's left for later? 

I hope this post wasn't too confusing and I would really appreciate any advice. Thanks!


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2009/12/yard-training-with-bailey.html

I must admit that I did not "break" Bailey but let a pro do it. This was not until 2 years old.

My mistake was to let Bailey chase and catch birds doing puppy and derby trials. Bailey learned he could run down the birds that flew. 

My next Hungarian Pointer will not be allowed to chase if there is any chance he can catch the bird. 

Get through Junior Hunter as fast as you can because the chase habit will bite you in the butt later especially if the dog can catch the bird and gets rewarded by you when he/she retrieves back to you. You then are encouraging this and will become ingrained. 

Training for as many "wild flushes" as you can set up will be my training regimen next time around.

A well-trained pointing breed must stop as the dog runs through the field and a bird "pops" up. If *chase and catch * happens too often you will be battling ingrained behavior for the rest of your hunting days.

I've learned that the hard way. Hope the answer makes sense. 

RBD


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

for PIKE it is one command - STEADY - he does not move blink or wag his tail - being raised to flush on command we do have our work cut out for us like you on the road to a MH - read learn and remember 1 thing - the V is smarter than us - POINT him in the right direction - you can not loose


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

Our trainer let Mischa chase for multiple sessions to let her have fun and allow that drive we all want to flourish. That's the time they used to introduce the shot as well. The dog is absolutely nutty over catching the bird, and the shot becomes background noise associated with birds.

We're still working on "Whoa" though.
It is probably a little harder to keep them steady after allowing them to chase, but from what I understand, it makes the training process easier overall.

At 6 months old, it sounds like your dog is doing great. 
I don't think our trainer touched on "Whoa" until Mischa had multiple starters pistol shots behind her while on the chase.
It's something you can introduce now, but I wouldn't be overly concerned about it yet.

What I do at home is make her "whoa", toss a toy over her head, and wait until she looks back at me to release her.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

I'm using a long lunge line with Ruby in the fields at the moment to stop her chasing as I think it's time for her to start being steady, it seems to be working.


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## veifera (Apr 25, 2012)

> What I do at home is make her "whoa", toss a toy over her head, and wait until she looks back at me to release her.


That sounds interesting - sorry for the dumb question but how do you prevent her from breaking whoa and chasing the ball? 

I'm looking for something like this (I think) - where the fact that she has to wait for to be released makes the game more fun for her, somehow...


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

With mine its starts with yard work that will transfer over in the field. I pull straight up on the lead for them to stop and stand until released. The pull up motion is the cue to stop. The tap on the side is the cue to release them. Later we do this in the field on birds. If they give any sign of moving before the flush I tap up on the collar. If they lounge forward before the flush I simply walk them away from the bird. Game is over with that bird. I don't praise or give a negative response. I just walk them away. I will have 3-4 birds planted in the field and we just move on to the next bird. I don't talk to my dogs when they are on point. I don't want them looking to me for direction and pulling their hear off the bird.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

This is the method I use. I build on it till I can walk off from the dog and it will still stand in place until I come back and release it.
http://youtu.be/VC2Q4fBYDcQ

This one just because it has some use full tips.
http://youtu.be/n3azIYm8LfQ


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

veifera said:


> > What I do at home is make her "whoa", toss a toy over her head, and wait until she looks back at me to release her.
> 
> 
> That sounds interesting - sorry for the dumb question but how do you prevent her from breaking whoa and chasing the ball?
> ...


Just a simple "ah-ah-ah,,, back here"...
It's an easy one to do really because there are no distractions inside.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

My first response is don't get in a hurry to teach steadiness. A Pup at 6 months old needs to be out knocking birds, learning how to move through terrain, use the wind, gain INDEPENDENCE and generally have a good time. I won't start formal steadiness training until after the Pup has at least one good hunting season under their belt, whether they are 6 months old as is your instance or a two year old. They need a strong hunting/drive base to begin. Dogs started in formal training too early look for their handler to make every decision for them and/or sour on hunting as manifested in multiple problems. 

That said, I do work with Pups hands on to just hold still for a moment while I run hands over them and then let them go. It's pre-training for being restrained and styled. I don't say a word to them while doing so. I also use a side touch release. 

Let Pup be a pup, he only gets to be one once. 
Ken


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Tex mine also starts with bar work -or was that yard work ? in and out of the house everytime at heel - get 2 field and the pup already knows who is in charge - then it's birds gun n fun - as Ken almost said - everthing I needed to know I learned in kindergarten - it starts at home & the rest is easy!(almost!)


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Ken I'm so glad your on the forum.
Sometimes I forget to post how much time I let my young pups run and bump birds, and just learn their world before I ever expect to start any form of formal training.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Completely agree with letting pups run and bump birds. Just don't let them run them down and catch them. That is where wild birds are the ticket. I read that in the books but when you start with Fun Field days or Pre-Natural Abilities Tests, Junior Hunter or Puppy, Derby field trials and they almost always use pin raised chukur that don't fly far and your pup learns he can run them down then you get.....well Bailey. 

Bump and watch fly away great! Bump, run down, catch and retrieve - bad.

RBD


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## veifera (Apr 25, 2012)

> My first response is don't get in a hurry to teach steadiness. A Pup at 6 months old needs to be out knocking birds, learning how to move through terrain, use the wind, gain INDEPENDENCE and generally have a good time.


I agree and don't prevent or stop chasing in the field. It's not always easy to get strong flying birds and RBD's advice is something I'm very mindful of. 

It's not about formal training at all - I was just wondering if there is a fun game I could play with the puppy at home or in the back yard that is a kind of pre-training of steadiness or impulse control that a dog would really like to play. 

As an example, I pre-trained retrieving and recall as games and my puppy loves them both. We also did holding still while I run my hands over her and it works very well. I even hold her bone for her to chew on every now and then so she never had a problem sharing anything or avoiding hands or being touched. So I figured there's more in that vein, to start bringing out the steadiness and make it fun.

Anyway, thank you all so much. I'll be looking at the videos when it's time to do something more formal. We're going for JH at the end of the month and I'm already nervous!!!


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