# Using the scruff of the neck??



## Claire (May 21, 2012)

Hi again - 
Again, in the spirit of trying to do everything right from the start, I'm wondering what people's views are on holding the scruff of a puppy's neck in order to get an item from him/her?
I've been using it on and off - firmly but always gently, and never out of anger - when Liesel has hold of something she shouldn't have, and while it does tend to work, sometimes she'll pull away then bounce back at the item, mouthing at me and showing teeth when I continue to keep her away. 
The mouthing and showing teeth I would hope is just puppy behaviour - mischievousness and over-excitement, but I just want to make sure I'm not provoking an aggressive reaction out of her by getting hands-on. I also sometimes use my fingers on each side of her jaw, trying to trigger her to open her mouth.

Something I'm hoping to try now that I've just acquired a treat bag (to always have on me), is swapping the item for a treat. I've also been using the command "OFF" from the start. I'm sure the swapping will work, just wondering if I should ditch the physical approach entirely. Don't get me wrong, I'm never rough with her - but I also do want her to have some level of respect for me, and I wonder if just using treats will be consistent enough once she's older and realises I often won't have something to give her in return.
Thanks in advance, the advice on this forum has definitely helped me a huge amount so far in the difficult early stages!!


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## NeverGiveUpRAC (Aug 27, 2012)

Great picture!! With Cole, at 5 months his teeth showing was already aggressive-like. Basically, he was telling me he didn't want to listen. I did the swap technique as well. I think it worked the best...I would keep doing that if I were you...you could probably bipass some problems I had inherited.


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## littlelulu (Jun 21, 2011)

Hi Claire! I would personally avoid any sort of physical approach, especially with such a young pup. Swapping a treasured item with a yummy treat or an even more treasured item works well and teaches them that really great things come to them when they give things up to people . I often reward Lulu for giving me something by giving the item right back to her so she knows I'm not just there to take things away from her all the time and that there's no need to worry. You can prevent a lot of resource guarding issues in the future if you work on this now. If you use a physical approach, she may feel threatened and start to associate your approach with something very negative and therefore might feel she has to defend herself.

We make a game of "drop it" and Lulu has no resource guarding issues with people and happily drops things for me. I randomly reward her with a jackpot of treats for dropping things and often when she has something and I approach she happily drops it because she never knows what delight awaits ;D.

Good luck with your adorable little girl!


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## Claire (May 21, 2012)

Ok thanks guys, that's what my instinct was telling me really. She's just so sweet, I'd hate to think she was finding me in any way threatening, no matter how gentle I felt I was being. I'll try the treat thing - and I do also frequently take something from her then give it back, which I'll keep doing.


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## littlelulu (Jun 21, 2011)

It sounds like you're doing a great job with Liesel, Claire. We all want to do the best we can for our Vs, they're just so special. But there's so much information out there it can definitely get overwhelming sometimes . Have you read Ian Dunbar's "Before and After Getting Your Puppy"? My V is 3 and I'm just reading it now. It's an excellent resource for positive, humane training. Wish I had read it long ago!


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## Claire (May 21, 2012)

I haven't, though I've read bits and pieces of his online. I'll look it up, thanks - I definitely agree it can get overwhelming, I thought I knew enough to have me reasonably prepared for her, but now that I actually have her I'm coming across all kinds of dilemmas! Just want to make sure I'm using methods she'll appreciate and understand, and that will produce the best results overall.


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

Right... You do have to be cautious about using any kind of harsh physical discipline on a Vizsla. Just don't do it. They really are very SOFT dogs and will just shut down. Their feelings are very easily hurt. They are very, very smart, but emotionally delicate. If I ever grabbed Willlie by the scruff of his neck, he would be devastated, and would wonder what in the world had come over me.


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## Claire (May 21, 2012)

This is what I originally thought - and I assure you it's never a grab, I hold her gently but firmly there to try and get her to let go of something. I've been told it's a technique used by mother dogs - however I also appreciate that I'm a lot bigger than a dog, and I stress again I don't want to intimidate her in any way! I'll stop doing it.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Clare,
It is enjoyable following your adventure and the comment that



> I definitely agree it can get overwhelming, I thought I knew enough to have me reasonably prepared for her, but now that I actually have her I'm coming across all kinds of dilemmas!


My thought goes along with your thinking that the scuff of the neck is a natural act of the mother to remove a pup from danger. Not a punishment but a loving act. If used correctly with a pup, I think it could be helpful (IMO). Your comments about never showing anger is spot on! Anger is never used on pups. They are learning the rules of life and human rules at that. Give them every opportunity to learn it right. Will they make mistakes? You bet. Think of yourself dropped into a tribe in Sub-Sahara Africa and expected to learn their customs without error. That is your pup.



> With anything young and tender the most important part of the task is the beginning of it; for that is the time at which the character is being formed and the desired impression more readily taken


 - Plato, _The Republic_

Taking a deep breath is your best friend. What real damage was done? is a question you should ask. If something important was damaged, why did you allow that situation? 

Long on leash walks. EVERY DAY will be your best tool to develop your pack position. Dogs love walks and follow the pack leader. A pup will accept you the fastest if you lead him or her on a long walk. Birds fly, fish swim, and dogs walk.

Happy trails,
RBD


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

No, Claire, I don't think you need to stop doing it, as long as it's a gentle thing, such as what Rod has described. ;D

_She is such a cutie!_


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## Claire (May 21, 2012)

Right... thank you redbirddog that was really informative - and exactly why I thought it was alright before - 
mswhipple I understand you better now - you scared me a little bit!! Just being reminded that they're a 'soft' dogs made me wonder if the techniques I would most likely use on other breeds might potentially do damage to this particular dog. So far no damage seems to have been done, she's a very confident happy little thing - unless you count her reaction to me telling her off sometimes, which I described before... the jumping back at me, grabbing at my hands etc. I presume this is just puppy behaviour?
I really can't wait until I can take her for proper walks, once she's had her second vaccination - I try to do different things with her every day but I think we're both going a bit stir crazy.


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

Jumping back at you, grabbing your hands, nipping, biting, latching on to pantlegs, etc., are all normal puppy behaviours. These things, over time, will all diminish and then disappear. But in the meantime, it's helpful to work on them so they go away sooner. After all, you do need to survive her puppyhood!! ;D ;D


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