# Overexercising a V



## bertrand (May 17, 2017)

Hello everybody,

Long time no posting. 

There are obviously a lot of post on here about how much exercise Vizslas need, but I haven't found a thread that talks about the signs that Vs are overexercised or tired. Due to their exercise needs, lot of us got Vs because we wanted to ride/run/hike with our dogs, but is it possible to push them too far? I am not talking about them overheating (it is barely +10deg Celsius here), but just flat out tired.

The reason for me asking that is that we have been fat biking all winter with Breeze and our distances have ranged from 6kms to about 15kms last weekend. The way the rides usually go is:
- First hour, she just runs like a possessed dog, darts into the bush, comes back and run some more,
- after that, if we are going up, she will settle into a nice jog, wait for us, make sure we are still around, go into the bush to sniff something and the runs back to the trail to jog some more.
- when we go downhill, no matter how early or far into the ride, she will run as hard as she needs to so she stays in front of us.

No matter the distance, whenever we come home, Breeze just bee-line to the couch and usually sleeps for the rest of the evening. She will usually also ask to play a little bit throughout the evening, but she is typically pretty chill. 

My question is: how do I know she is tired on the trail? Is it possible to overexercise a V? Even last weekend, when we did 15kms (and she probably did 17kms), on the last downhill, she was ripping it like we had just started and when we got back to the parking lot, she saw another dog and started bouncing like a kangaroo because she wanted to play with him. The owner of the other dog couldn't believe that she had just done a 15kms ride. If Breeze was truly tired after that ride, then she definitely didn't act like it. As the weather will get nicer and snow will hopefully start melting at some point, we will increase the distances, I want to make sure I don't miss the signs that she is tired. 

Cheers,
Bertrand.


----------



## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

How old is Breeze, and what type of surface is she running on?
Normally I can slow down, or take a break. See what the dog does, as a way to gauge if they are tired.


----------



## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

Yes, age and surface are important. But, most importantly, common sense. They do need exercise and lots of it, but they need the type that is natural for them as hunters. So, long off lead walks which allow intermittent bursts of speed over a longer period of time interspersed with simple trailing of you. Think of their specified purpose, and you'll be fine. Their anatomy has been finely tuned over a thousand years for this. Stop/start/stop/start.

A lot of owners disregard that and simply look to tire them out or have them accompany them on their human activities, such as long runs and bike rides, etc. And although the intent is good, the actual activity can increase their exposure to risks, including injury. They.Need.To.Stop. (And they need proper hydration), and tethered to you running or riding won't do that, which increases the chances of either/or acute or chronic injury.

So, be aware of their needs from their perspective and their evolution and you'll be fine.


----------



## bertrand (May 17, 2017)

texasred said:


> How old is Breeze, and what type of surface is she running on?
> Normally I can slow down, or take a break. See what the dog does, as a way to gauge if they are tired.


Hi Texasred,

Breeze is now 1 year old and when we are riding, currently, she is running on snow, soft and hard. I totally understand your point on taking a break and seeing what she does. Here is the thing though, after 15kms, I stopped, she came to me, made sure I was ok and then darted back into the woods. If she had been tired, I would have expected her to come back to me and stay there or sit or lay down (mind you, the ground is snow covered right now, so probably not laying down), but at least something like that. Instead she came back to me, said hi and then ran away into the woods chasing some scent, which is why I am asking the question, as I would have expected her to be somewhat tired after 2hrs and 15kms.

Am I missing something?


----------



## bertrand (May 17, 2017)

gingerling said:


> Yes, age and surface are important. But, most importantly, common sense. They do need exercise and lots of it, but they need the type that is natural for them as hunters. So, long off lead walks which allow intermittent bursts of speed over a longer period of time interspersed with simple trailing of you. Think of their specified purpose, and you'll be fine. Their anatomy has been finely tuned over a thousand years for this. Stop/start/stop/start.
> 
> A lot of owners disregard that and simply look to tire them out or have them accompany them on their human activities, such as long runs and bike rides, etc. And although the intent is good, the actual activity can increase their exposure to risks, including injury. They.Need.To.Stop. (And they need proper hydration), and tethered to you running or riding won't do that, which increases the chances of either/or acute or chronic injury.
> 
> So, be aware of their needs from their perspective and their evolution and you'll be fine.


Hi Gingerling,

thanks a lot for the response. Breeze is just over 1 year old and currently she is running on snow, but this summer, she'll be running on dirt/rocks/roots/etc... but no ashpalt. I mentioned that we were mountain biking specifically because I didn't want folks to think that Breeze is running hard for 15kms. She is not tethered to me, but instead is totally free to roam throughout the ride. 

When the trails point up, my riding speed is slightly higher than a walking speed, meaning that Breeze has plenty of time to explore, sniff, run into the woods, stop, sniff some more, and run/trot back to the trail, so exactly what you are describing in term of stop/start/stop/start. When the trails point down, then yes she is running hard, but we never go more than 10mins without stopping and giving her a rest. I agree that hydration is important and luckily for us, the trails are covered in snow right now, so she can drink whenever she wants by eating snow, which she does.

I hope this makes sense, but I guess my question is: based on everyone's experience of doing outdoors activities with their Vizslas, how do you see that your V is getting tired? What symptoms do they show? Should Breeze be tired after a 2 hours, 15kms ride? I have seen dogs getting tired before and they usually start walking, lay down when stopping for a rest, don't run as much, etc... I would have expected Breeze to get tired on that ride, but apparently not, as she wasn't exhibiting any of those symptoms and was still happily trotting/running whenever I stopped.

Cheers,
Bertrand.


----------



## Najo (Feb 16, 2018)

Fat biking with dogs is the best! My labs have done the same as you are describing, if I put in 10 miles they are putting in at least 15 darting in and out of the woods! I just make sure to take breaks every 30-45 minutes, offer water from a collapsible bowl I carry, as well as some Zukes energy treats. Then I wait for them to show me they are ready for more. Mine will lay down on a break if they are getting tired and if so we will just stroll back to the parking lot. Honestly the only time my last lab would raise the flag is snowshoeing in deep snow or towards the peak of a big mountain. I can't wait to see what Ryker can do! Great job sharing your adventures with your furry family!


----------



## Anida (Jun 10, 2016)

So Kaylee just finds a shady tree and lays down when she is done. She makes it pretty obvious that way. I think Breeze is probably ok especially since she is off lead setting her own pace etc.


----------



## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

Bertrand, I've biked distances like that with my dog and will usually take multiple breaks where I force her to rest and drink or to cool off in a creek. I do this every few miles, or more frequently when it's hot, whether she is showing signs of needing it or not. Everything you've described as far as her still being energetic right after exercising, but generally being chill in the evening is the same as I've experienced. I definitely think they get that runner's high which carries them after that point where they _should_ be tired. They're bred to hunt all day, so if conditioned, like Breeze is, 2 hours at a slightly higher intensity isn't going to run them into the ground. 

I just try to pay attention to her pace, if she's keeping up with me, her breathing, how far her tongue hangs out of her mouth, and the color of the whites of her eyes. Some of these do go into overheating territory moreso than the pure exhaustion. Once it does warm up there, drop the distance you're biking, at least initially, and just keep observing her to see how she handles it.


----------



## bertrand (May 17, 2017)

einspänner said:


> Bertrand, I've biked distances like that with my dog and will usually take multiple breaks where I force her to rest and drink or to cool off in a creek. I do this every few miles, or more frequently when it's hot, whether she is showing signs of needing it or not. Everything you've described as far as her still being energetic right after exercising, but generally being chill in the evening is the same as I've experienced. I definitely think they get that runner's high which carries them after that point where they _should_ be tired. They're bred to hunt all day, so if conditioned, like Breeze is, 2 hours at a slightly higher intensity isn't going to run them into the ground.
> 
> I just try to pay attention to her pace, if she's keeping up with me, her breathing, how far her tongue hangs out of her mouth, and the color of the whites of her eyes. Some of these do go into overheating territory moreso than the pure exhaustion. Once it does warm up there, drop the distance you're biking, at least initially, and just keep observing her to see how she handles it.


Hi,

thanks a lot for the great info. I totally understand the risk of overheating and taking breaks. The good news is that right now, the temps are hovering around 5deg Celsius and my fitness level forces me to take multiple breaks, so both risks are pretty low right now, but I agree that once things warm up, I will need to be more vigilant.


----------



## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

bertrand said:


> Hi Gingerling,
> 
> thanks a lot for the response. Breeze is just over 1 year old and currently she is running on snow, but this summer, she'll be running on dirt/rocks/roots/etc... but no ashpalt. I mentioned that we were mountain biking specifically because I didn't want folks to think that Breeze is running hard for 15kms. She is not tethered to me, but instead is totally free to roam throughout the ride.
> 
> ...


hi Bertrand,

Ok, as long as she's not tethered or forced to keep your pace, you're OK. It's not that much different than you hiking, she acclimates to the bike and your pace. 

I agree with Eins about calling back and having a rest after a while, V's are notorious for being exuberant in the moment and not realizing how they're actually feeling, which is why they have a tendency to "Crash and burn" when they return home for the rest of the day. Depending on the weather and the exertion..just be aware that riding is often easier than her running...call her back and chill for a while, offer water and maybe a doggy power bar. You can tell how she's doing afterwards by the amount of time she needs to recover/sleep and how she generally seems...my V's have always had 2 responses to life generally, "LET'S GO!" and "omg, I'm dying"...they are as expressive about not feeling well as they are about everything else, so she'll tell you... and adjust moving forward. V's usually break when they are over exerted, like being on lead and not being able to stop or not getting enough H2O, 15 kms sounds like a great day for both of you!


----------



## RedLfnt (Nov 6, 2014)

Our Copper is three years old now. The only time I have seen him worn out is on a hike in 105 degree weather in West Texas. He pulled on his leash the whole way and sought shelter in shade wherever he could. That was our clue to turn around. 

I take him on 2 - 5 mile runs with me and he never even pants. He just breathes through his nose the whole time while I'm struggling to keep up with him. We just moved to a new house on an acre of land with several trees. When we let him out in the back yard, he runs constantly from tree to tree and makes his rounds around the fence line. He doesn't stop running until we call him inside. To say all that, I think your V will let you know when he/she is done. Training benefits them as much as it does you. If you exercise yours on a daily basis, he'll be able to keep up with you much longer than one that sits on its owner's sofa all day. Let your V tell you when it's had enough. It will be apparent to you.


----------



## Pecan_and_BB (Jun 15, 2015)

bertrand said:


> Hi Gingerling,
> 
> thanks a lot for the response. Breeze is just over 1 year old and currently she is running on snow, but this summer, she'll be running on dirt/rocks/roots/etc... but no ashpalt. I mentioned that we were mountain biking specifically because I didn't want folks to think that Breeze is running hard for 15kms. She is not tethered to me, but instead is totally free to roam throughout the ride.
> 
> ...


Hi Bertrand,

I haven't posted in a while on here, but I read your posts here and thought I'd reply. I've had my V for 3 years and over a year and half ago got her bikejoring (proper pulling harness and attached to the bike).

If you are using a fat bike in the snow, I wouldn't worry about your speed or pace too much as I'm going to assume your average speed is in around the 8-10 km/hr range. That should be just a slow trot for your girl and she can keep up with that no problem at all with a break every now and then.

A few things that I've learned from trainers, vets and other bikejoring enthusiasts with regards to biking with your dog. First, they are just like us where if they don't do something for a while, they aren't in shape to do it. This winter, we had to step way back on the biking exercise with the amount of snow, so now this spring, we had to start out with shorter, slower rides and build up over time to regain that endurance and not risk injury. That doesn't seem to apply to you since you were able to get out through the winter with her, but if you take a break for a time, then I would restart at 4-5km and work up to 10-15km adding about 1-2km per week. Second, they are just like us where after that heavy of an exercise time, they require recovery time especially once they get a little older. So as your V gets older, remember to vary their day to day activities and give them days off from running that hard for that long. Third, check those paws and pads often as with more distance, if they blister or cut one of their pads, they can sometimes ignore it and keep running which can potentially do more damage throughout the ride, so I've gotten in the habit that when I stop and take a break, I give her paws a quick check just to make sure everything is OK.

As far as how much is too much and recognizing when they are tired? It depends on their conditioning, but they'll do everything they can to push through to keep up with you. So really, you must schedule the breaks, set the pace, and monitor her for potential paw issues. From what you have described here, I wouldn't worry at all that you are pushing her too much.


----------

