# Meeting aggressive dog - advice please



## Penny (Sep 22, 2011)

Hi all,
I would really appreciate your advice please: Penny and I go on a regular walk each morning after dropping the kids off to school, in a great park where dogs are free to run around off leash. As we are there nearly every morning at around the same time we have gotten to know a lot of the other regulars, which is great for Penny as she gets to play with her doggie buddies. There is one particular dog, though, who plays very roughly with her, and with other dogs too. Penny has been meeting him for some time now and, up till today, she had the upper hand, standing her ground and not allowing him to intimidate her. Like all vizslas, she quite likes a bit of rough and tumble too, but it has always been in a playful way. I have noticed, however, over the last couple of weeks, he is getting more aggressive with her, lips curled back and snarling while he wrestles with her (though that would be his normal way of playing), but not taking the hint when she obviously doesn't want to engage. She has been reacting by getting angry herself, baring her lips at him, which I don't like to see as she never bares her lips otherwise. This morning, the play got out of hand and he attacked her while they were wrestling. We had to break the two dogs up and Penny came whimpering back to me, and it took me some time to calm her down. I really feared for her safety. I'm pretty sure he bit her but couldn't see any obvious tooth marks. My question is, as we meet this dog and his owner almost every morning, and the owner is a very nice lady, how should I handle this? Should I just keep Penny leashed when he is around, or is this something the dogs should work out for themselves? I should also mention penny is young - will be 2 in February. As is the other dog, come to think of it.

As always, thanks for the advice! This forum has been a lifesaver for me since penny entered our lives!


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

My advice. Ask the lady if she will set up a on-leash walk with her dog and you walking Penny. Make it as long a walk as possible and maybe 5+ times before letting them "play together".

Rather normal in dog parks at the age the dogs are from my limited experiences. Pack dynamics are in place at a dog park that humans usually don't see.

I would not have comforted Penny after the attack. Wrong message. I would have just been calm and walked her away. She picks up on your emotions 1,000 times more than other people would. There is now a connection to the dog and your bad feelings. A few longs walk where Penny and the other dog can bond and see that both their humans like each other and are relaxed should help.

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poor-city-dogs.html

RBD


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

It sounds like the frustration between the dogs has been building for sometime. Is the other dog a female too? The worst dog fights Ive come across are between females. They can get nasty and don't want to give up. Most males do a lot of posturing but the fights over quick.


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## SkyyMax (Apr 5, 2012)

RBD gave a good advice - take a leash walk with both dogs, preferably on a neutral territory, let the dogs bond.
However, if it does not work, I would avoid going to the dog park at the same time with an aggressive dog or keep both of them on leash to prevent another confrontation.


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## Crazy Kian (Aug 10, 2009)

redbirddog said:


> My advice. Ask the lady if she will set up a on-leash walk with her dog and you walking Penny. Make it as long a walk as possible and maybe 5+ times before letting them "play together".


This worked with Kian and his buddy Dante the GSP.
We would see the gsp every morning on our morning walk and Kian wanted to rip his head off. At the time Dante was intact, Kian hates intact males (jealous I guess).
Any who, one day I asked the owner if we could just walk together and talk. Did so for about 1km. Did that everyday for about a week. Everyday we brought the dogs closer on the walk by the end of it Kian and Dante were walking side by side (about a foot apart) and were social with each other.

Keep in mind that they could snap on each other, so keep a close on your dog and let their comfort with each other build. It may not work or it may work, every dog is different.

Good luck.


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## Penny (Sep 22, 2011)

Hi guys,

Thanks very much for all the advice. I think I will do as you suggest and go for walks on-leash with the other dog until they hopefully work out the dynamic between them. I don't think the other owner will have any problem with this. If he continues to be aggressive I think I will just have to try to avoid when they are there.

Texasred, penny is female while the other dog is male, so I was surprised he would be so aggressive to her. He has been neutered though, so maybe he no longer discriminates between the sexes! 

RBD, normally I try hard not to anthropomorphise with regard to dogs behaviour and let them work things out themselves, but I panicked today when I saw the play turning into a fight, and I suppose I reacted in a typically 'human' way by placating her. But she ran over to me whimpering, which is hard to ignore. However I take your point! At what point would you intervene if the play looks like its going wrong?

One more question: i dont like seeing Penny all fierce and teeth bared with her hackles raised as its just not her personality. I am afraid this dog is teaching her to be aggressive - is this possible?

Thanks again!


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

IMO, I would just keep her away from the other dog. There are some male Vizslas that have attacked Riley for no reason. The first time it happened I was there. Riley rolled on her back to show her submission and wasn't even making eye contact with the dog and he was about ready to attack when the owner pulled him off her. The 2nd attack I wasn't there, but this was when she had her knee horribly injured (multiple vet visits, they thought her knee went septic at one point, hundreds upon hundreds of $ in treatment).

It's not worth the risk of her getting injured. I would find some better "friends" for your pup's playtime.


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## veifera (Apr 25, 2012)

> I would find some better "friends" for your pup's playtime.


Agree 100%. My dog used to go to private day care that hosted a couple of black labs. One of them was really picking on her and one time I actually witnessed it (not sure how much of it went on when I wasn't there). I was horrified. Took her out of there immediately, right there and then. It's not worth the medical bills, as threefsh says and it's also not worth it in terms of the experience of being around other dogs.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> At what point would you intervene if the play looks like its going wrong?


Maybe a little earlier since you knew there was tension between the dogs. I would have stayed close and given a quick "KNOCK IT OFF" in a pack leader voice. Not angry but full of authority. Dog fights can be dangerous so I wouldn't put yourself in the middle of a brawl until it settles down. You can get bit. The dogs don't mean to bite the humans, but like all angry people, (I anthropomorphize dogs sometimes) when in rage don't think correctly.

There are dogs I avoid, and there are people that avoid mine. Dynamics are interesting and I am learning that it takes YEARS to think like a dog. But I keep trying. ;D

RBD


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## Oquirrh the V (Jun 24, 2011)

Penny said:


> At what point would you intervene if the play looks like its going wrong?
> 
> One more question: i dont like seeing Penny all fierce and teeth bared with her hackles raised as its just not her personality. I am afraid this dog is teaching her to be aggressive - is this possible?


I use the word "Enough" and pull Oquirrh away if I think the play is getting too rough. I give him a breather, let him calm down. I feel like I know his body language pretty well and he can get snarky when he has had enough. If I see that he is getting agitated, I will use my word and leash him. Go for a walk and try to find someone else to play with and sometimes he will run right back to that dog and if the play gets out of hand again, I leash him and go for a long walk instead. I don't want to take my chances with Oquirrh getting attacked or him attacking.

I typically pull Oquirrh away before it becomes a "dog fight", I wouldn't want to give you advice and you end up getting bit. :-\


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## dmak (Jul 25, 2012)

As a kid I learned how to produce a deafening whistle with my fingers. If my pup ever gets into a "snarling match" as I call them, I break out my cowboy whistle and that seems to get every dog/humans attention with a quickness. Since our severe dog park altercation where we were both badly injured, Kauzy has begun listening to me and obeying my commands on an all new level. I think he learned, the hard way, that i as his pack know what needs to be done and he quickly obeys my every word


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## redrover (Mar 17, 2011)

Penny said:


> One more question: i dont like seeing Penny all fierce and teeth bared with her hackles raised as its just not her personality. I am afraid this dog is teaching her to be aggressive - is this possible?


Certainly. Dogs pick up habits and characteristics from other dogs, especially in learning situations. I'd say she's just defending herself from an unwanted situation, and that's a natural response. She'd been sending signals that she didn't want to play, he was ignoring them, and she was correcting him for inappropriate behavior. I'd only be worried if she starts acting like that for no good reason, or starts playing so rough with other dogs that the same thing occurs. Unfortunately, my dog learned to over-correct from another dog when he was just out of puppy license and got in trouble for being a bratty puppy with a much older, very dominant dog. Because it was such an intense learning moment, now he doesn't consider just a dog crouching and avoiding eye contact to be submitting enough during a correction, and is not content until he has pinned the other dog to the ground. (which is what happened to him) He sounds loud and horrible, but isn't hurting the other dog. However, it's very scary, a little embarrassing (on my end), and unnecessarily assertive. We've had to work really hard on our recalls, so that he'll come even when engaged in play or posturing with another dog. This prevents most issues unless I catch it too late. We'll also start seeing a behavioral trainer, hopefully in February (it's expensive, so that's what the tax refund is for!), in order to see if we can teach him how to read and accept other dogs' signals better. I'm hoping it works.

I'd say start working really, really hard on getting a reliable recall. Then call Penny away once you start to see the situation get out of hand. Unfortunately, what you can't control is the other dog following her. If the other dog continues to follow her to play, then leash up and leave. It helps teach both dogs that that kind of rough play ends play time altogether.


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## jld640 (Sep 29, 2010)

If you decide to do the walk together idea, be ready to constantly correct the other owner. The walk is for the dogs, not for the owners. I've tried walking with other dogs a couple of times to head off problems and had to give up each time because the other owner wanted to talk to me and kept drifting the dogs closer together than they were ready to handle. Needless to say, in the end I opted for the 'better friends' concept threefsh mentioned.


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## adrino (Mar 31, 2012)

I'm on threefsh' side, I would just avoid this dog all together. Since you do have a choice why would you want to have your dog play with him when his aggressive towards yours? Some dogs just don't get along. IMO it's not worth taking the risk of a serious fight and the result of an injury. The lady is nice but the dog isn't, who will get hurt if you walk with them again? 
You always can walk the other way and its for your and your Vs sake. If the lady gets offended it's up to her, but you always can explain that you don't want the dogs to get hurt. 

Just to add to it, in our park there's this guy with two staffs and both of them are possessive of the balls they come out with. BUT the male also steals Elza's ball and will not give it back. It's a chuck it ball and I will not give it up since its expensive and anyway it's Elza's ball. Sometimes took 10 minutes to get the ball back! And when Elza started to play with the males frisbee and dropped it he run straight to Elza and they almost had a serious fight! I just grabbed Elza and went away. My dog is the most submissive dog ever and I have barely ever seen her even snap at another dog at the time. I also saw the guys two dogs getting into a fight with each other over these toys. 
Lesson learnt, I avoid him. I say hi and carry on with a fast pace and put the ball away. Ha! I do not need my dog to play with this dog and rather have a lonely walk than him and his dogs as company.


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## Penny (Sep 22, 2011)

Thanks very much for all the feedback. On thinking it all through I've decided not to allow penny play with the other dog - its just not worth the risk of him hurting her, or I think more importantly, her picking up on his bad habits! She has the sweetest personality and, apart from her recent interaction with this dog, has never showed aggression to another dog, so I think it's best just to avoid him from now on. If I do happen to bump into them I will leash her and take another route. I can always stop for a quick chat with the other owner, keeping penny on leash, and then keep going. Thanks again for the wisdom of your experience! It has helped greatly in resolving how I will handle the situation.


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