# Need help with Independence



## KodasMom (Oct 15, 2015)

Our Vizsla, Koda, always wants our attention and we think this lack of independence is what is causing the issues when we leave him at home alone: Separation Anxiety. 

When he doesn't get our attention when we are in the house, he will give up and just go lay down (vs. playing on his own). This isn't ideal, especially when we are working from home and need him to behave all day long. If he sleeps for a long period of time he will be crazy in the afternoon, even when we take him to the park in the morning. 

If we leave the house and put him in the crate (even with toys, a bone, a Kong with peanut butter) he freaks out (tears a towel or bed if we put it in crate, which we have now stopped, and barking/trying to escape).

We need to figure out ways for him to entertain himself both while we are in the house and then when he is home alone in the crate (which is only an hour in the morning and an hour in the afternoon). 


Thanks!


----------



## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

It's not unusual for a vizsla to either be interacting with someone, or just resting. If mine aren't in the yard/field they act pretty much the same way.


----------



## lyra (Nov 2, 2012)

Kodasmum, I was a bit struck by the lack of information in your post. Koda's age and his daily routine are essential to give any meaningful advice.

I have had a look through your previous posts but that has probably raised more questions than it has answered! A few questions that have come to mind; Koda is 16 months so why does he still need to go in a crate (you were asked this in reply to a previous post but didn't reply)? What exercise is Koda getting? What type of exercise (on lead/off lead), how long, when in the day? Does he still go to playgroups? In previous posts you say that 'we' are both out all day but now it seems that you are in most of the day so have your personal circumstances changed? What is your usual daily routine?

When people come to the forum and ask if they should get a Vizsla because they work all day I always suggest that they consider a different breed as they are very social animals who like company. There are people who post here who do work all day but make it work by understanding the breeds needs and finding ways to satisfy them but I think we need more information to give useful suggestions.

On a small point, my experience of adult dogs is they don't 'play on their own' like they did when they were puppies.


----------



## KodasMom (Oct 15, 2015)

Thanks Everyone. 

Here's more information to help/answer questions. 

Koda is 16 months old. We do think it is a separation issue more than anything else, even though he isn't alone often. Each day my husband and I leave for work around 8:15am and then his daycare picks him up around 9:30. They take him to a farm about 40 minutes away where he plays off leash all day with other dogs. He is back in the crate around 4:30 and we get home from work at about 6. Before and after work, we take him on walks and play in the house (we don't have a yard). 

There are a few reasons for wanting him to be crate trained. 

1) If we are spending a weekend with family and have to go out for a little bit, we don't want him to have free reign at other people's homes. Getting him used to the crate at our house will help with this (vs. randomly putting him in the crate when we are away.) 

2) We've heard that if he is destructive in the crate due to separation then it is likely he will be destructive outside of the crate as well. So it's really not a crate issue, it's being alone that is bothering him. 

We are working on giving him treats in the crate and trying to make the crate a fun place to be (bones etc.) but we still have the leave for work each day as we work through these separation issues.


----------



## lyra (Nov 2, 2012)

Thanks for the additional information. It will be interesting to see what other members say, unfortunately there probably isn't a 'right' answer for this but there may be some useful pointers from other people's experiences. If you haven't I would also search the forum for crate issues as this is a common subject on the forum.

We have two Vizslas, one from a puppy (Lyra) and another as a 14 month rescue (Ruta). Ruta has never been in a crate since we got her. Lyra hated her crate. She had no problem sleeping in it at night (in our room) but whined almost the entire time we were out (we recorded her to see how she was reacting). We persisted for months and followed suggestions we had read here. At 10 months we abandoned the crate and have had no issues leaving her with free reign of the house. She typically lies on the top of the sofa watching out of the front window (possibly for our return but she often does that when we are in).

These are purely my opinions, I am not an expert, so please feel free to reject any of them. Hopefully there will be something useful!

Dogs are rarely (if ever) independent. They are pack animals that need company (human or canine). You are the most important person to your dog and ideally they would like to be with you most of the time. We all have to make compromises as this is rarely possible if you are of working age. I saw an interesting program on Separation Anxiety where scientists looked at the percentage of dogs that displayed obvious signs (about 30% from memory) and then they measured the rise in steroid levels (a known sign of stress) and found that about 70% showed some rise. In other words, it is 'normal' for dogs to have some degree of separation anxiety (even if it isn't evident to their owners).

From your original post, I did wonder if this was an exercise issue but from your follow up it clearly isn't if he is spending most of the day running around off leash. As an aside, dogs are very much creatures of habit and routine. If he is used to being out all day I'm not surprised he pesters you when you are working from home, maybe you could still send him to his usual daycare? I also work from home; my girls get a two hour off-leash walk (fields and woods) at lunchtime/mid-afternoon. The rest of the day they basically slob around - currently I've got one curled up next to me and the other is in her bed. They aren't unusually docile Vizslas, if we go our for a days hiking they are running around and active from start to finish (however tired the humans feel), it is just that they get enough exercise to satisfy their daily needs and they know that during the rest of the daytime I'm going to be busy - it's the routine they are used to and they know what to expect. 

I can understand your reasons for wanting Koda to be happy in a crate. I don't know if that will be achievable especially as he is now just about an adult dog (I don't think Vizslas settle down until they are at least 2 - if ever). There are quite a lot of owners here who have never been able to achieve a happily crated dog. Maybe someone else has some direct experience with this. I would also search other breed forums as this won't just be a Vizsla issue. It may also be worth thinking about using a dog behaviourist. Has Koda ever been happy in his crate in the daytime?

If you can't find a solution to this then the only alternative is to work on ensuring Koda can be left uncrated. I can fully understand the concerns about his destructiveness. It may be that just not being crated is enough to reduce his stress levels to a point where the destructiveness ceases. It might not be! I would be tempted to try a reasonably dog proof room for short periods at first with something that isn't expensive (cheap towel) that doesn't matter if it got destroyed (if you give him something you don't mind being destroyed it will prevent him for looking for something else!) Again, working with a behaviourist may help. If you can get to a point that you are confident in him being left alone then you may be confident leaving him unattended for brief periods when visiting family, maybe confined to a reasonably dog proof room.

Other people may have better suggestions but you have a significant issue that I don't think there is a magic answer for. Good luck!


----------



## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

Do you have a vehicle the crate can fit in? Going fun places with her in the crate was the most helpful component to crate training my dog. Could your daycare transportation also accommodate this?

Secondly, do you ever crate Koda when you are home?


----------



## lyra (Nov 2, 2012)

This thread may also make a useful read (and there is an external link in it as well) - http://www.vizslaforums.com/index.php/topic,41154.0.html


----------

