# Seizure



## SteelCityDozer

Has anyone's v had a seizure? Dozer had a true blue seizure the morning after Xmas while running around the yard with his weim cousin. His bloodwork came back normal so hopefully it was a one off from holiday over stimulation but this is also the age in which epilepsy presents itself. It was one of worst things I've ever seen in my life and I hope he never goes through that again so I'm just wondering if anyone else has any experience with seizures. There wasn't really any other posts about them. Breeder said they're not in his bloodline so we're hoping for the best. It breaks my heart everytime I look at him as it was a full body seizure. Thanks for any input.


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## Looney

My beagle was an epileptic, when she started you had to pry her mouth open and take you thumb and press her tounge down and it would open her airways enough to get back to normal....was scary!!! i can only imagine if it happend while i wasn't around.


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## TeamMcLoughlin

Hi, our Viz has has many seizures. They have not been grand mal but still they are unpleasant to see. Our vet have given us some drugs that help end the fit if it lasts longer than 3 minutes (3 mins is key). The first thing is to keep a diary of the fits and what happened around the time (type of walks, food eaten, treats etc...). The fits can be far apart and it helps highlight trends. I'll not go on too long unless you want me too. In the end we were getting fits six weeks apart but we changed her food from one that contained pork and went over two year before the next fit. That said, we had another in August but none since.

I hope this starts to help but if you want to know more about our experience then please ask.

We are in Leeds, UK but I am not sure if your Steel City us Sheffield or Pittsburgh.


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## redbirddog

Epilepsy is not all that uncommon in our breed according to one of the founding Vizsla rescue members in the West. She has seen her share over the years. 

A friend has a great Vizsla that has had seizures from over stimulation. The last time was last spring at a horseback field trial. The dog ran about 15 minutes of the 30 minute brace and had a full on seizure mid-course. It was tough to see. The owner does her best to keep the over stimulation to a minimum while still giving her Vizsla a full active life.

I'd do more research on the lines. Go back five generations yourself. Ask questions of the parent club or regional club in the area if they know the lines.

So sad. At least there are medications. Let us know what you find out. I'll ask around for more information for you and send it to you via PMl.

RBD


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## SteelCityDozer

Steel city refers to pittsburgh, although we currently reside in VA. I'm just trying to get a grasp of whether anyone is dealing with epilepsy or whether their dog had a one time seizure. I know in the end only time will tell fir us. The hardest part right now is the fact that he's home alone 9 hours a day with me returning in the middle to check on him. So we have no clue whether it's really the first or what happens when we're not there. 

Looney- I was wondering about his tongue but we were told to keep our hands away so we don't get bitten during and I can tell you he was ready to bite immediately after. He had no clue he was looking right at us when it was over, growling, defensive for about 20 sec before he snapped out of it. The gagging worried me but I can definately see the danger of putting my fingers in his mouth. Either way I'm not sure I could have pried it open. 

Thanks for the responses so far.


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## TeamMcLoughlin

We had about 18mths between the first and the second fit. Now we are used to it and although the fit isn't nice it is just life. The Viz knows nothing about it and doesn't remember it. We are also both full time workers so have the same issue and it was a big worry of ours at the start. The vet reassured us it was highly unlikely when she was on her own but I cannot remember the scientific reasons why.

It does go without saying to chat with your vet because they will help you decide the size/scale of fit and any advice on what to do. The drugs we have are Diazepam tubes; they help end the fit if you are worried and reduce the likelihood of a repeat in the short term.

I hope it goes ok going forward but I would recommend the diary, especially around food, but it is luck if you can isolate a trigger.


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## SteelCityDozer

Dozer had his second seizure tonight. It's interesting bec I was out in the yard letting him run yard since I got home early and then we came in and were playing when it happened. He decided he didn't want the toy, started running around in circles with a high pitched bark and that's when I realized it was coming. He sought out my partner in the floor, leaned against him, then back legs twitching, peed a little, seeming scared before the flight and barking started again, lost bowels, more twitching. Hard to tell the beginning and end. So cluster focal seizures this time. Post ictal is lasting forever. He's disoriented and not himself and it's been hours. First time was minutes. I guess this means meds. It's horrible not being able to explain to him what's happening and not get the wiggle butt every time I say his name. And what if we have a V that seizes every time we get highly active? Wouldn't that be something...


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## SteelCityDozer

A total of four have occurred in 24 hours so we spent our early afternoon in the emergency clinic. His seizures involve an attempt at flight combined with high pitched barking and and another interesting sound that I can't really describe. While seizing he attempted to escape the house via doors and windows and tried to jump the fence. Also tried to hide behind the couch. He hasn't been the same dog since before the first one but he's on meds so hopefully they control the seizures and we can get our Dozer back.


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## polkan

Keeping my fingers crossed for you and Dozer!


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## mswhipple

SteelCityDozer -- Oh, I am so sorry you and your Dozer are having to experience this! It sounds just awful, and heartbreaking. Will say a prayer for Dozer... Poor little guy!

My best friend once had a beautiful female German Shepherd named Sugar who developed epilepsy. For Sugar, the trigger was always a thunderstorm. From what I understand, great advances have been made with the medications currently in use. Best of luck with Dozer. Do keep us posted.


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## BlueandMac

How scary for Dozer - and you! You all are in my thoughts.


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## redbirddog

SteelCityDozer,

Here is some very dry reading I found on VizslaTalk (A Yahoo Group). 

_"Thanks to a friend who is well informed about such things, below is some
information on the current thoughts of those involved in epilepsy research. It
is looking anything but simple."_Regards
Ros

"Below some snippets plus the abstract... think the last quote is the most
interesting...

*Canine epilepsy genetics*
Kari J. Ekenstedt, Edward E. Patterson, James R. Mickelson

Mamm Genome
DOI 10.1007/s00335-011-9362-2

Abstract
There has been much interest in utilizing the
dog as a genetic model for common human diseases. Both
dogs and humans suffer from naturally occurring epilepsies
that share many clinical characteristics. Investigations of
inherited human epilepsies have led to the discovery of
several mutated genes involved in this disease; however,
the vast majority of human epilepsies remain unexplained.
Mouse models of epilepsy exist, including single-gene
spontaneous and knockout models, but, similar to humans,
other, polygenic models have been more difficult to discern.
This appears to also be the case in canine epilepsy
genetics. There are two forms of canine epilepsies for
which gene mutations have been described to date: the
progressive myoclonic epilepsies (PMEs) and idiopathic
epilepsy (IE). Gene discovery in the PMEs has been more
successful, with eight known genes; six of these are
orthologous to corresponding human disorders, while two
are novel genes that can now be used as candidates for
human studies. Only one IE gene has been described in
dogs, an LGI2 mutation in Lagotto Romagnolos with a
focal, juvenile remitting epilepsy. This gene is also a novel
candidate for human remitting childhood epilepsy studies.
The majority of studies of dog breeds with IE, however,
have either failed to identify any genes or loci of interest,
or, as in complex mouse and human IEs, have identified
multiple QTLs. There is still tremendous promise in the
ongoing canine epilepsy studies, but if canine IEs prove to
be as genetically complex as human and murine IEs, then
deciphering the bases of these canine epilepsies will continue
to be challenging.


" Among the IE studies utilizing pedigree segregation
analysis, there has been evidence for an autosomal recessive
inheritance or a gene of major effect, both of which
could occur due to founder effect. However, many studies
could not rule out polygenic inheritance. For example, in a
study of IE in English Springer Spaniels, the mode of
inheritance appeared to be partially penetrant autosomal
recessive or polygenic (Patterson et al. 2005). Similarly, in
Vizslas, segregation analysis showed that IE in this breed is
likely inherited in an autosomal recessive manner, but
polygenic inheritance could not be excluded (Patterson
et al. 2003).
IE seizure phenotypes vary among breeds; IE in some
breeds manifests more frequently as focal onset seizures,
whereas in others seizures are mostly generalized. The
frequency of epileptic dogs suffering cluster seizures and
status epilepticus also varies. Taken together, it is clear that
as in humans, multiple IE loci will exist in dogs, some of
which may be simple and others complex, and that more
than one locus is likely to exist for IE in many dog breeds."



" Genome-wide linkage studies have been undertaken in
several dog breeds, although many remain unpublished,
likely due to inconclusive or negative data. For example,
our group undertook a genome-wide linkage scan utilizing
DNA from 96 Vizslas, of which 31 were classified as
epileptic, representing two large extended families. More
than 500 microsatellite markers were included, and though
there were five regions of suggested linkage (LOD[1.0),
none achieved a LOD score[3.0, which is considered
significant evidence for linkage (Ekenstedt 2010)."



" Genome-wide association studies (GWASs) for IE are being
conducted with high-density canine SNP arrays in multiple
breeds. Unfortunately, many of these remain unpublished
because the results do not achieve genome-wide significance.
For example, our group, in conjunction with the
LUPA initiative, has conducted a GWAS with IE-affected
(n = 47) and unaffected (n = 48) Vizslas using the
Affymetrix 50 k canine SNP array and failed to identify any
loci of major effect (Ekenstedt 2010)."


" It has already been shown in the case of the Lagotto
Romagnolo (Seppala et al. 2011) that within a single breed
there is more than one form of genetic epilepsy. In fact, the
genetics involved in canine IE could even be distinctly
different between lines in a breed, as has been suggested
for the Poodle (Licht et al. 2007). Or, it is possible that the
predisposition for epilepsy may actually be fixed in some
breeds, and expression of the trait is due to modifying
genes and/or environmental influence. It seems likely that
should susceptibility loci eventually be identified for breed-
specific canine IEs, they may not be fully penetrant and
may involve environmental influences. This is also seen
within the Vizsla and English Springer Spaniel pedigrees,
where a proportion of the dogs in each breed had different
seizure characteristics (Patterson et al. 2003, 2005)."


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## SteelCityDozer

Thanks all! Esp RBD for research info. We did come across some of polygenic research last night which is interesting bec that basically means its a combination of genes, it's not as simple as my dad had it so now I have it. 

Anyhow, meds seem to be working today. He's slowly getting back to himself. I don't return to work til tuesday so that will help. It's hard bec he wants play but we're afraid to stimulate him until we meet with our regular vet. Something that's made the whole thing easier is my boyf. He can stay so calm and collected. He induces and scans patients while they seize as part of his job so to him the hardest part isn't the seizure, it's seeing if Dozer returns to himself with time. 

We're of course still Hoping for the best and taking it day by day.


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## SteelCityDozer

Back to the clinic we went today. Dozer is most likely having breakthrough seizures. He gets a sort of bobble head shortly after he falls asleep. It lasts about 90 seconds and he's actually quite aware during it. We started a supplemental anti seizure med in addition to the antibiotic and allergy meds we must have the most medicated dog on the block. Still trying to remain positive but fact of the matter is we're running out of options. Few hours after new meds and bobble head continued. Emer vet HIGHLY recommends a trip to the neurologist (yes i called since weve been home and meds arent working) and we've already been scoping the website. Probably be there sooner than later. Poor little guy can't even sleep for 20 minutes.


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## mswhipple

Oh..... Poor Dozer (and poor you)! This is just awful news. You just have to keep trying and trying until a solution is found. I am hoping for quick improvement and a fast turnaround for Dozer, and keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. Bless your heart. I know you will do the best you can for him.


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## BlueandMac

SteelCityDozer - How is Dozer doing? Are the meds helping any yet? I was thinking about him quite a bit today...I can't imagine what you are all going through. Wishing the best for you.


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## SteelCityDozer

He still has bobble head when he sleeps (even though he's now on two seizure meds). So we're headed to the neurologist first thing in the morning. They had a cancellation so we lucked out in that at least. He gets back to his playful self at times but meds make him soooo clumsy like a pup not a 16 mo V. 

We're keeping our fingers crossed but we're most likely looking at an MRI. if nothing shows they may spinal tap. This is all going to cost an arm and a leg so if anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears. 

Thanks for keeping us in your thoughts! We may have some tough decisions tomorrow.


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## redbirddog

> We may have some tough decisions tomorrow.


Could I recommend "A Dog's Purpose." 

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/08/dogs-purpose.html

A fairly short book.

Rod


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## Ozkar

Got my fingers crossed for you and your little buddy. That is just **** wrong. Poor little pup doesn't deserve it. I hope the tests turn out way more positive than current indications are. Good luck and I'll be thinking of you tomorrow. Post up as soon as you know or can.....


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## SteelCityDozer

Well MRI and spinal tap came back normal. This is good and bad because prognosis is genetic epilepsy so it's nothing to be cured/fixed, but at least we still have hope of working out at a cocktail of meds and giving him a "normal" life. Upping his current meds and still taking it day by day. Good news is dr said he has dogs on 4x the dose Dozer will be on so we aren't nearing an end which is all we were hoping for. 

To anyone in the northern VA area the place we went to was great and the whole building is animal specialists some of which I didn't even know existed and many if not all are 24/7.


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## Ozkar

While I know he's not out of the woods yet and you still have some way to travel to make him comfortable again, I am still so very relieved by the result. Reading your post I was worried for you that you may have had to make that decision. What a relief. 

Poor little Dozer. It's just not fair. I really hope you can strike a balance of meds which works well enough to give Dozer some normality again. I'm also just so impressed with your dedication to Dozer. Some might have taken the easy option. I'm with you, I have spent over $12,000 AUD trying to save one of my Cocker Spaniels years ago. In the end, I still lost her after all that. But, I would spend it again in a heartbeat. If i didn't have it, I would borrow it. But I just couldn't give up on them until they decided to themselves. 

Once again, I wish you the best of success with the next course of action and hope that your little Dozer is out and about regularly again, sooner rather than later.


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## BlueandMac

Hey SteelCityDozer - how are things going with Dozer? Hoping things have settled down for you all.


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## SteelCityDozer

Blueandmac - thanks so much for asking. Dozer's doing quite well. No seizures since he's been on the meds and he's adjusted to them quite well. He still has some interesting moments, we're pretty sure he sees/hears things that aren't there but who r we to say. His senses r better than ours. And he apparently also has "steroid responsive tremors" so he must be on pred. But most would never know his special needs at this point so were happy and I think he is too. Thanks again. 

Allison


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## BlueandMac

Great news! So glad to hear things are going well. Thank you for the update on your guy.


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## datacan

:'( hoping for the best. 
I am stating the obvious, sorry, but if overstimulation leads to attacks, perhaps keeping him on leash may reduce occurrences further.


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## kellygh

We have Pet Plan insurance for Pumpkin. They send out a magazine called Fetch! (probably viewable online). This last issue had an article on seizures/epilepsy. On the last page is a great picture of a Vizsla & a statement declaring the Vizsla Club of America has a identified epilepsy as the number 1 disease priority for the breed. The V was not listed as one of the breeds more prone to epilepsy though. Just an FYI. So glad Dozer is adjusting to his meds well  Best wishes!


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## mswhipple

That IS good news about Dozer. If the seizures can be managed, he can have a good life!!


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## Ozkar

Wow, you must be so relieved. I was reluctant to ask as you hadn't posted much, but that is really pleasing to hear. Poor little fella doesn't deserve all that. Hopefully now, these little episodes will be infrequent if not eliminated.


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## SteelCityDozer

Yes, each day that goes by seizure free we're hopeful they'll be infrequent as some suffer weekly even on meds. Once we gauge his frequency I hope to get him back to off leash in open spaces (without fences) but I'll take no seizures over no fences any day. Dr said its unlikly over stim is a trigger so that's also good news and to let him run and play as much as he wants.  bec let's face it how can you calm a 17 mo old v for next how many years? Ha


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