# Retriever Training or Upland Bird Training



## Saltwater Soul (Jan 17, 2013)

I'm trying to make some decisions about gun dog training for our 8 month old Maddie. Historically, most of the hunting that I have done has been for duck and dove. I generally have a lot of opportunities to do these hunts and they are generally close to my Houston or Matagorda, TX homes. I would like to do more quail hunting but access and the time involved in getting to the places with birds is tougher. Maddie has basic obedience training and some rudimentary retrieving work with me in the yard. 

I am trying to decide whether to send her to someone to work on the retrieving skills and save the upland stuff for later. Or to send her directly to an upland bird dog trainer. Ultimately, I would like her to do both but I know there will be more opportunities to exercise the retrieving skills. I already have duck and dove hunts lined up and I would like her to participate in some of those. There are plenty of trainers that do retriever training nearby -- much fewer of the upland style. This being my first versatile breed, I'm not sure what to do. 

Any suggestions given these parameters? Any suggestions on trainers?

Also, what could I expect with a month of training? I've negotiated that with the family but they are pushing back on more as they love her so much and want her to be home.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Your running out of time to be able to hunt with her this season. Dove season is a month away in the central zone, and a month 1/2 in the south zone.

I wouldn't bother to send a young dog to training (puppy intro to birds 2 weeks min) if its only for a month. She will need time to get acclimated to being away from home, and bond with the trainer. How the dog is coming along should dictate the length on time spent with a trainer. 
I don't think you will be able to hunt her after just a month in training. I would give it at least 3 months, and then evaluate it at that time.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2013/07/what-field-championship-might-cost.html

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/06/bailey-is-at-summer-boot-camp.html

Might want to wait another year unless you have really worked with her around the gun.

Also the bond has to be there for Maddie and the trainer to bond the way they need to. During the first part of that you need to be out of the picture. A dog should only have one master (at a time). 

Hopefully Maddie will be healthy well into her teens and still be hunting duck and dove with you in the year 2024. That is a long time. 

My advice. Don't rush it. Keep it fun for the pup and not work. 

RBD


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## huntvizsla (Jun 8, 2013)

SS,

This is my opinion only! I have had the opportunity to see hundreds if not over a thousand different Versatile hunting dogs, and it is the rare dog that is really ready for force fetch (retriever) training under a year old without negatively affecting their drive and style in the field. 

I assume you have not yet had your pup on birds in the field. I am a little concerned if you hunt her only on doves and ducks this fall that you may have some steadiness issues in the future, but I do not know your dog and you may have no problems with that.

If it were my pupppy (and I live in the great white north) it would get as much exposure as I can manage on woodcock and grouse, and later in the season on pheasant. This would be to allow the point to come out naturally without pressure. Some duck/dove hunting would occur in carefully controlled conditions so the pup does not get overwhelmed by too much shooting yet gets to fuel the excitement level. Then in the winter I would follow up with retrieve training, and in the spring would work on field. That has been the general prescription I followed with my last 6 dogs, and with my current young prospect, and it seems to work pretty well. 

It can be very hard to control your enthusiasm and desire to help the pup Grow up and be a hard hunting dog, but give her time to mature and you will be very happy with the results. Been there, done that, and made some mistakes on my first dog that cost her drive and point in the first few years.

Happy hunting!


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## Saltwater Soul (Jan 17, 2013)

Great advice so far. You've given me a lot to think about. Thanks for helping out a newbie at this. 

I have a couple of follow-on questions:

If I wait for professional training, but take her hunting with me some this season, am I likely to do some unrecoverable harm? Are there things I should especially avoid or be aware of? Huntvizsla touched on this a little. Of course, I would do this in controlled conditions (ie not with 20 hunters in a field blasting away at doves). She is currently obedient, retrieves dummies to hand (as far as I can throw them), OK around guns and in great shape. For my training, I've been reading as many books on the subject as possible and lurking in forums like this.

Second question and I'll ask for a paradigm shift from you all. I now understand that I am unlikely to get much out of one month training. Maddie is first and foremost a family dog and I'm not wanting to do competition, etc. with her. It will be a pleasant bonus for her to also hunt with me and do some basics. More than anything, I like the companionship. This is where my expectations are. One of the ways that I negotiated sending her off for a month was that we would be on vacation for two of the weeks and the kids/wife agreed to that. So I am going to have to board her anyway for a while. My thinking was why not have her get some training along the way. So if my expectations are not high in terms of a finished product at the end of the month, do I get more out "some" gundog training than simply boarding her for a couple of weeks and then scheduling professional training in the future (after some more negotiation with the family)? Does this change your previous answers?


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

Salt Soul

Baby Willow will be exposed to all of Rudy's greatness

this early fall

She was born March 1 2013

Rudy is 3 years 7 months

There will be risks its my family lands very remote gravel roads in the last 20 miles into her all Wild Birds and private property helps with garbage cans 




She is a Baby girl but she has been pre Hunting since week 10

the push will be light for her baby steps hand command and whistles only

She will imprint the bang the drop of the bird and Rudy bringing every thing back to me

She already will sit on any point and hold it real birds.

She will be cut out of anything tough

I still must protect Her Growing body

these imprints and lessons outweigh the risks to rewards if there introduced in baby steps

and make it fun but set the guidelines

You are the leader of your the wolf pack

respect rewards and repeating easy steps on them

Keep your voice the same

find only 3 to 6 words in the field

use these on each event

and never scream at a pup

They fold up early pull them back

You will see this very soon

and Hunt 1 or 2 always with very young mates and make your push only 20 yards max hunting 2

If you have a lead mate let them tag along some these ages

Someone cared for you

and changed your undies

same process

but never generalize greatness it can only match the handler earned work bench 

unless your gifted with the 1 percent Finisher

these dogs may come 1 lifetime if your gifted

Progress at your speed take notes each push

each mate has its on ways and souls

find the best ones they have embrace these

they matter on the climb up ;D


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