# cars



## Aimless1 (Sep 25, 2011)

Had an incident tonight where my grandson had Nitro on a lead and somehow Nitro got off lead when I pulled into their driveway. I stopped and he ran into the street and under my truck.

I've been thinking about how to car proof Nitro, but can't quite figure it out. Your suggestions appreciated.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://topdogtrainingcollars.com/

Aimless1,

I am a firm believer in an e-collar and setting up training opportunites using them.

Cows, sheep, cars, cats, coyotes, are things that my dog can hurt or get hurt by. I learned how to use an e-collar to protect my dog and to teach it valuable lessions. 

The idea is to get the dog BELIEVING that the thing they are chasing or going after is what is causing the discomfort. Positive and negitive reinforcement both can be used.

There is a lot to learn in using a collar but I believe the investment in time is well worth it.

Nitro should not get off-lead without you knowing how. Collar too loose? Child not strong enough to hold him back when a squirrel ran across the street? You need to know. 

In bird training the professional I used "set the dog up" to make errors. This way the error can be "corrected" under controlled conditions. When the dog did right thing he got rewarded.

In field trials you have to train for everything that might happen. So you set up those conditions. Once in the contest you can't use a collar or give a lot of shouted commands.

Hope that made some kind of sense.

RBD


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## Aimless1 (Sep 25, 2011)

Thanks RBD. 

I've been reliving pulling into the drive and trying to understand how Nitro came off the lead (collar became disconnected from the lead). I'm pretty convinced the grandson, who is 7, let him off the lead intentionally. My grandson seems to think otherwise. Easy enough if I'm right. My daughter will make sure the grandkids can't have him on lead until they are old enough to be responsible.

I have no problems using an e-collar responsibly but am reluctant to do so with a 13 week old pup. I would prefer to wait until he is at least 26weeks old. 

However, good suggestions and much appreciated.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> but am reluctant to do so with a 13 week old pup


WAY TOO YOUNG. At this point it is just on leash around anything that is a danger. Training grandchildren is sometihng in my near future. Have a 3 year old, 2 year old and 1 year old. One of the reasons we got Bailey when we did was that he would be out of puppyhood before the grandkids became toddlers.

Maybe a body harness instead of a neck collar might be helpful? Less chance of wiggling out of it. It is what my daughter uses with her small dog.

RBD


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## jld640 (Sep 29, 2010)

I don't have any insight into the car issue, but the off-lead thing I might. If Nitro's collar has one of those key-ring type loops for hanging tags, your 7 year old might have fastened the lead to the ring instead of the collar. Once Nitro pulled, the lead would come off and, depending on the type of ring, it would snap back into shape. Check the ring. It will be a little warped if the lead pulled free of it. 

And yes, it happened that way to me. I didn't realize what had happened until I looked down and didn't see one of her tags.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Nightmare, I feared this every time, still do.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

I'd recommend a slip-lead Aimless, it has a leather slider that goes down the rope and stops the noose opening up and allowing your dog to wriggle out of it. Ruby manages to remove herself from her harness quite easily by walking "backwards" out of it


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## anne_wilcrest (Oct 20, 2011)

RBD - (or anyone else who has any input on this)

what age would you begin using the e collar in training for safety issues - ie, rattlesnake aversion training?

and then what age would you feel comfortable using it for "annoyance" type issues, like counter surfing?


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## Aimless1 (Sep 25, 2011)

This sounds like a wishy washy answer, but using an e-collar depends on your dog. It is another form of pressure and your pup will need to be able to handle pressure before using an e-collar IMHO. I certainly wouldn't begin before 6 months of age though.

Once you have conditioned the pup to the e-collar you can use it for all training situations. It is best used to reinforce commands it already knows ... and to avoid danger.

No one knows your dog like you do. Based on your question and having read some of your other posts, I would guess you will be conservative and cautious in the use of the e-collar. Those are both good attributes in my book.

I still haven't figured out an effective way to car proof Nitro, but I sure have figured out what to do with my grandson. I'll be talking to him as only a loving grand father can helping him to understand what happened. His mother will most likely not allow him to walk the dog on leash unsupervised (in the yard) until he is a little older and more responsible. That should at least keep Nitro on leash. 

I am particularly sensitive to dogs and cars. One of my good friends had a beautiful GSP pup that was about 5 or 6 months old. He had been used to playing in the yard with my friend even though they lived on a busy street (5 lanes). Cody playing with my friend and all of a sudden decided to dart out in the street during rush hour. I happened to be driving home and saw him get hit and killed. Just devastated my friend, and it really affected me as well. I don't know how, but I will find a way to car proof Nitro.


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## kristen (Oct 18, 2011)

We live in a 4 lane busy road, and our door opens literally into the street. I was obviously very worried about Odin darting out the door, and getting into traffic. I asked my trainer for help, and she did an exercise with us to make him weary of the door. Although not exactly your situation, I thought you might be able to modify it to fit your needs somehow.

One person stood on the outside of the door with a treat, and one person on the inside. The door was opened a crack, and the treat was held by the person on the outside as a lure. When Odin went to go near the door to get the treat, we quickly shut the door (carefull to not get him in the door, but to startle him a bit and make him step back). Once he took a few steps back and sat down we gave him a better treat than the one outside the door and praised him. He is now very cautious (but not scared) of the door, and never tries to bolt for it. 

Perhaps you could do something similar with cars? Maybe either revving the engine, or shutting the door quickly, or making the car suddenly move. My trainer just said to make the object be unpredictable, so that the pup is cautious of it.

Good luck!


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## Aimless1 (Sep 25, 2011)

Great suggestion and I think I can incorporate it into car proofing Nitro. Poor Nitro has only had treats twice in 5 weeks and the little bugger is certainly motovated by food. This is one time bribery may be the best way to help him modify his behavior


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## anne_wilcrest (Oct 20, 2011)

@Aimless1 
what a horrible and traumatic experience! 
cars are such a constant presence it's easy to forget (easy for me, doubtful you would forget after that) how dangerous and deadly an erratic second or "wild hair" can be for a dog.

thanks for the feedback about the collar, I'm definitely going to wait as long as possible, but want to get the snake aversion before too late in the spring/ early in the summer (she's 5.5 mo now, so I think that's possible.

I love @kristen's exercise - one startling stimuli option could be to have someone sitting in a car (parked either in the driveway or in front of the house - or both!) honk the horn when the dog started to move out towards the street or car - as a bonus this would hopefully teach the dog to avoid cars
(and then the bonus reward for going back inside, of course, or even moving away)

best of luck! let us know how it goes.


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## polkan (Dec 29, 2011)

I'm wondering how training for cars could be set up. The option of not bolting through an open door is a very good one, especially when the road is very near it. The other common training technique is to teach a dog to sit down as the handler pauses before crossing the street. But I think these are not 100% related to a situation where there is a front lawn, a driveway, kids, etc. 

Teaching car avoidance in general is likely very difficult (just think about the amount of time it would take to generalize all cars in the course of training), and I'm not exactly sure if it could backfire for owners who drive and need their V to get in the car. 

Perhaps it's possible to train a dog to simply avoid the driveway? I remember reading in Suzanne Clothier's book about a woman who bought a brand new expensive carpet and taught her dog never to walk on it. Setting aside what I felt was a rather questionable value set of that particular owner, I wonder if making the driveway off-limits could be the best solution to cases when the car is pulling up. 

I can't remember how exactly she trained her dog (I'm sure it was positive training) and it's probably going to take a while, but perhaps it can be useful for V owners who live in similar situations.


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## Gator (Feb 9, 2012)

Love the name!!!

E-collar have worked exceptionally well for my friends with hunting breeds. Keeps the dog safe and healthy. But they need to be older than yours but I am not sure what age.

I had success training a jack russel to stop chasing people's feet and kids on bikes with the "leave it" command. We were worried it would turn into car chasing. The "leave it" command can be used for many different scenarios. I think it could work for yours.

There are 3 steps to training the "leave it" command.

1.) You need two people. One holds the dog in the sit position on leash. The second holds a piece of food in their closed hand on the floor. Initially the dog is allowed to sniff the treat and the person holding the leash says "leave it" in a low but now loud voice. Then they put the dog back in sit position, holding the dog. When the dog is still they say in a happy friendly but not overly excited voice, "take it" and the dog is allowed to have the treat. After the first few times you can put the treat on the floor and not in someones hand but the dog cannot get the treat until you give the command "take it."

2.) Take the dog outside on leash and let them expore around. When they show interest in a good smell or an object say the command "leave it" and give the leash a quick, short tug. Repeat the tug until the dog looks at you and then smile, praise the dog with your voice, (not too much excitement though) and slip them a really tasty treat. The reward needs to be more desirable to the dog than whatever they were interested in. Continue training this step until your dog looks at you after one tug on the leash.

This how it relates to cars and other objects you would like them to ignore. This command can be generalized to other scenarios

3.) Have someone pull your car into the driveway. When they pull in and your dog shows interest given them the "leave it" command and quick, short tug on the leash. repeat the tug until they look at you and smile, praise with your happy voice, (not too excited) and slip them an absolutely fabulous treat. Do this a few times always ending the training session on a successful note. Stop as soon as your get the desired behavior - don't repeat it again. Do everyother day until you are comfortable that the will not rush the car(s) and reinforce with additional training once a week until the dog is reliable.

Hope this is helpful.


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## Aimless1 (Sep 25, 2011)

I've been thinking this over and decided one of two things is most likely going on:
1. The movement of the vehicle attracted him
2. He knew by the sound of the truck who it was
I think it is probably #1 as he has wanted to pursue vehicles when walking on leash.

Still a work in progress, but we're working with getting him to move to the side of the road and away from vehicles. I noticed today he did this on his own and all I did was praise him. Every vehicle, every time. Tomorrow we may regress but it is progress. We live in a neighborhood without sidewalks so we share the street with cars.

We'll give him time to master car avoidance on leash, then ramp up the pressure with one of us driving by the house with him either on leash or check cord, and again pulling into the driveway. 

Not looking for a real world test, but with Spring almost here the grand kids are likely to have him out in the yard ... and I'm likely to pull into the driveway again while he is out.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

had a near miss with Ruby the other day, went into the front garden to wait for the school bus and Ruby jumped over the privet hedge into our neighbours garden and shot out of her open gate onto the road, (when I say road, it's actually a single track lane that gets quite busy with the school run). A car was approaching about 50 yards away but luckily I calmly ordered her to "stay" and she just sat down,,,,,dread to think what could've happened if it all happened a few seconds later . Now I put her on her lead when we go for the bus!


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

I had a similar experience this week too Harrigab  Went out to collect the mail from the letter box. The dogs always come out with me to do this and to take out or bring in the rubbish bins. I never leash them. Our Estate is pretty quiet, but my section of street is rather straight and people do pick up a little speed here. My neighbour came out from across the road and started saying hello to the dogs from there. Idiot! Of course, the dogs just wanted to run across the road and greet him. Thankfully, a combination of my recalling them and my walking towards our property, they stopped at the footpath. But it does give the heart rate a nudge for a little bit


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

Yes, you really cannot be too careful in ANY off leash situation!

An old friend of mine always let his beloved Chow, Bentley, walk out to the mailbox with him to get the day's mail (off leash). Everything always went smoothly, until one day my friend saw Bentley get distracted, then get hit by a car, and then die, right before his very eyes. Can you imagine the guilt? You are, after all, the responsible party. This is not the kind of memory I would want to carry with me for the rest of my life! :'(


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

I've been working on teaching Sam that approaching the curb means stop. On our walks we always stop 3 feet from the curb before we proceed with crossing the street. 
Sounds slow but seemed to work for him until his running mate, the GSP, broke out into the street and Sam after him.
Sam did slow down considerably before he joined his stupid friend. 

I've noticed, when running, this GSP's turning radius is much larger than my V's. That's what made him go out into the street. 
Perhaps, it has something to do with me keeping Sam's nails shorter.


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