# Upland Hunters. Advice needed!



## dmak (Jul 25, 2012)

As y'all know, Kauzy and I regularly work big game/upland/wetlands. He still stuns the **** out me out how versatile he truly is. With that said I need some training advice. Lately, we've moved to upland which is probably his "weakest" area. He's amazing at point/flush/retrieve. The last couple weeks I've noticed that is hard mouthing smaller birds. He's soft with duck and pheasant, but gets a little bit rough with dove and quail. How can I correct this? I need your help.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

You might want to teach him HOLD. It means you can't move your mouth. Start with bumpers and him at you side. First command is Fetch and place the bumper in his mouth, next its Hold and don't let him spit it out. You start with him holding it for a few seconds, then say Give and take the bumper. Praise him and if he is soft on training do a short walk 10-15 second walk with him. It makes a difference. You keep building on how long he holds it. Tap him under the chin anytime he tries to move his mouth. You also need to make sure he doesn't have his lips in between the bumper and his teeth. Keep building til he walks at heel holding the bumper without moving his mouth. Once he has it down switch to partly frozen birds.
You might want to purchase Evan Grahams Smart Fetch.
Hard mouth dogs are hard to cure. I have one and it started with dove. Dogs that won't crunch other birds will mouth dove. He carried it over to quail after being soft mouthed on them the season before. I had him Force Fetched and he did very well. My husband let him slip back into being mouthy and I had to start running him on retriever drills again. Whatever he is mouthing I wouldn't let him retrieve until you fix the problem.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

FF? 

Sadly, we transitioned to the table (basement workbench :-[ my grandfather used empty wine barrels)
Hard mouthing is not a problem for me but retrieving motivation is. 
Don't know if it is useful, saved this page when I was searching for answers http://www.retrievertraining.net/fo...14-Force-Fetch-Pinch-vs-e-Collar-Conditioning


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Don't think most people on this forum are ready to hear about Force Fetch, toe hitches and the ear pinch.
It's a part of training that's not fun for man or dog.
If you think ecollars and raw food debates turn ugly, FF could beat them. The best thing to do is get a good book or a trainer if you want to FF a dog. Ask questions on a hunting forum not this one.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

agree, should remove the post?
but isn't force hold part of FF?

FF is about 6 month program from want I remember (maybe my memory isn't so good I was 7 at the time). No toe hitch, just lightly tapping on the head and transition to the ecollar.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I don't think it has to be removed. Just don't feel most on the forum are ready to hear the details.
Yes Hold is the first part of FF and I use a paint roller for that part.

Most of the time 2 months is a good average to get through the program. But like anything else it could take longer. I don't consider the dog to have completed the program until it has mastered force to pile.


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## dmak (Jul 25, 2012)

Fortunately my pup has a strong drive to please me and takes well to tough love training methods. He's not your typically soft V (I think its the black mouth cur in him) He has an amazing point /retrieve drive, but has primarily worked wetland fowl. He's ecollar conditioned and is very receptive to it. I think I'll try a mixture of FF and ecollar work


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

If you choose that way, are you going to go with the table, barrel or neither?

Table may need collar restraint, unless its built like this (see Gunnr's response). 
I don't remember the barrel needing any 

http://www.vizslaforums.com/index.php/topic,6932.msg53337.html#msg53337


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## dmak (Jul 25, 2012)

Thanks for the thread referral. I never saw that one. Good insight by all


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