# Vizsla vs GSP



## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Great hunting buddy who owns 2 GSP sent me this-go to-duckhuntingchat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=136428-Having hunted with Bret for over 14yrs and he always had GSP and I had V's he was amazed at some of the comments made about V's-This is why the Vizsla forum keeps me reading all the posts-I have never read a post that put the V above another breed-the truth is we point out their needs(and there are many)and what it takes to be a good owner-are we protective of the V? remember the post crazy runninig vizslas(read 1500 times-replys 40)the answer is yes-this forum covers what is important-health training answers to all questions pup pics ect-keep up the good work-because Vizslas are a lot of fun and a lot of work


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## Kobi (Oct 26, 2010)

There's actually someone there who doesn't think a Vizsla is an attractive dog... what are they smoking ;D

I saw someone there mentioned "sniper john". I'm guessing that's the same "sniper john" we have here. I think his dog is named Blaze, and he has some very interesting hunting experiences!

Here's a link to all the threads sniper john has made here... I'd say for the small amount he posts, his threads have been the most interesting to me. Similar to redbirddog's blog, but he just blogs here basically:

http://www.vizslaforums.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;sa=topics;u=692

I think sniper john clearly illustrates the versatility and capabilities of the Vizsla breed.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

The GSP and the vast majority of current working GSD was not touched (for the most part) by the AKC. The laxed breeding rules of the AKC have not produced one working GSD all come from the German blood lines. Hence the price tag of a the true German bloodline GSD is anywhere between $12000 and $24000.
The Vizsla has not faired as well. Looks like a duck quacks like a duck...must be a duck.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

REM, I had a read. I totally agree with the blind/upland argument. But the rest of it is very opinionated. It's all I saw a dog once which.........., I tried to train one once which.........

I know as many Vizslas as I do friends and they are except on rare occurrences, one of the most easily trainable dogs I have seen? So I really don't get the comments surrounding that at all. Nor do I agree that they are out of control. Sounds like a poorly trained dog.

But interesting to read all the same.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

I'm replying blind to this thread, reason being about my Grandfather and his GSP.
A bit of history, my grandad fought in both world wars and he came to admire the tenacity and the belief of his opponents. In between the wars he became a Head Gamekeeper for a well known shooting club...his dog of choice GSP, due to his admiration of to whom he was battling! For decades he always had GSP's and they were absolutely great dogs for him, they were all called "Fritz" too.
I could ramble on all night about how my grandad taught me how to tie flies by night, how to look for rabbit trods, basically how to live off the land!
what I do wonder though is......as good as GSP's were for my grandad.....he never met a Vizsla!


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

From a article about the history from 1945 to 1955:

"The Hungarians were making it deadly clear that no Vizslas would be permitted to cross the iron curtain without their express authorization. Since then, the authorization has been granted on a few rare occasions, when the canines were allowed to participate in international dog shows. Even Red Hungary could not resist showing off her prize Vizsla on this side of the Atlantic. Two fellows from Minneapolis, MN tried to import a few by polite negotiations but were promptly turned down. No Vizslas, the Hungarians declared flatly, were to be bred outside of Hungary. It was their national dog, the smartest in the world, the best hunter, the most affectionate house pet and excellent guard dog. Besides they added any Hungarian who owned a Vizsla always gave it special respect and consideration. Although they didn't say it in so many words, the implication was that a Vizsla was much too good for an American to own, in as much as we probably were in the habit of booting our own pooches around from **** to breakfast". 

http://mokavizsla.com/history.html


Another except:
"For hunting the Vizsla has the best nose is a staunch pointer and natural retriever land or water. also affectionate companion and watch dog. He is as thorough as he is reliable and with his very sensitive nose he is often trained by Hungarian Police for man-tracking. He has been successful on many cold trails where other breeds of tracking dogs have failed. Some of these hunters have covered as much as 45 miles over rugged terrain." 
_____________________________________________________________
At the turn of the 20th century the GSP was known at the "b*stard hound" in Germany. Created in the later 19th century for the new "middle-class" of hunters in Germany.

The map is the Hungarian Empire first part of 20th Century. The Vizsla was and still is the national hunting dog of the country.

RBD


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

I've owned these dogs since 1988, and some of those comments are a little dated. 
I experienced a lot of this bias when I first started hunting V's in the field. At times I thought I had the first hunting V in Connecticut. I never saw another one,a nd never heard of anyone else hunting a V in Connecticut. The comments that were made were pretty deroratory and rude, but once folks saw Boone work, they quickly learned they were wrong.
The one poster that says he never saw one at a NAVDHA trial he'd own, had never seen mine, at least when I was in involved with NAVHDA. 
As for the water part, there's just pure BS in those posts. The two I ran could swim like ducks and had no trouble with the coastal waters in Maine in the fall. One was a natural at water and could out swim an Otter. The other hated water as a pup and had to be taught. It's all in the introduction and method of training. I'll guarantee you that outside of a pre-existing traumatic experience, I can condition a V to be a duck retriever, from blind or boat. 
I've got one now, Gunnr, that is an exceptionally athletic Vizlsa. Given more time, and inclination, she would be the equal of both of the males I ran. She's a special girl.

To be brutally honest, and a little judgmental, these dogs are actually better off in the hands of a Vizsla only trainer, or a novice. The pro trainers that cater to the bigger runners come to the table with too much baggage and bias,and won't accept the dog for what it is. They have a formulaic program that doesn't fit the Vizlsa, and since they can't get immediate results with the whoa pole and an eCollar, they don't like to accept them. The trainers that are willing to go "old school", and understand that it takes "TIME", and not just Tri-Tronics, to develop a no-slip hunting dog, have no issues with the Vizslas. 

The Novice has no pre-existing mental picture, and as so is more open to input and feedback. Outside of the intro to the gun, a complete novice can go a long way with a Vizlsa. With a little direction they can develop a fine bird dog.
You will never turn a Vizsla into a Chessie, or an english pointer. It isn't going to happen. These are supposed to be "Close working, personal Gun dogs".

Apologies for the "soapbox"stand. I've been dispelling these myths for a long time.


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

Gunnr, I'd vote for you if you ran for President!

Instead of being upset and offended, you choose the high road and explain why and how these dogs are so great. 


I think GSP's are great dogs, but for city life, I prefer the close "work" of a V. 
Many hunters seem to swear by the GSP. I've never been hunting, and I don't fully understand why you'd want a dog that points out of your sight??


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/05/herr-und-hund.html

A wonderful short book about a GSP at the turn of the 20th century in Germany.


Also in a compilation of dog short stories was one by James Mitchner who wrote a short story about the the new breed, the Labrador, coming into the Maryland area in the mid 1800's. Maryland was the land of the Chesapeake Bay Retriever for many years and the only bird dog to own. The story tells of this new black lab, "Lucifer", that a ship captain brings down from Canada with his load of ice for Baltimore. A dock worker buys the weird looking dog and trains it to hunt birds. Another dock worker has a very good Chesapeake Bay Retriever, named "Hey You". The black lab is derided by all the hunters as dumb, soft, weak, can't hunt, on an on.

Well you can read the story.

A Vizsla is every bit the hunting dog a GSP is, just different and has to be trained different. Agree completely with Gunnr that if you are going to get help training your Vizsla, you have to find a trainer that knows the Vizsla and not just pointing dogs. You can hit a GSP across the head with a 2x4 to get its attention and it will think "Oh, you talking to me?" A Vizsla will look you in the eye and ask "Ok, now what are WE wanting to do?"

I like early Saturday mornings with my coffee, dogs in their sleeping bags by my feet, and HVF.

We'll be walking in a couple hours up in the hills.

Life's good.

RBD


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

It is really amuzing and entertaining to read some versions of this dog's history. 
Google translator does make it easier. 
http://www.vizsla.hu/hu/theory_to_the_origin_of_the_vizsla/

This is as close as I got to what my grandfather's oral version, and that is just folk tales 

In truth the Vizsla was spread throughout the world long before the GSP ever existed. It might have even played a role in establishing the GSP and later returned the favour. 
They are cousins, looking at the big picture. 

The real difference is strict adherence to the breed standard. This is where the pure German working breeds excell.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

Mischa said:


> Gunnr, I'd vote for you if you ran for President!
> 
> Instead of being upset and offended, you choose the high road and explain why and how these dogs are so great.
> 
> ...


 Mischa

A well bred GSP is an exceptional dog. They are beautiful to watch in the field.
Many times what a person sees is an unfinished GSP. They take a lot of work, and like the Vizsla really don't come into their own until they're about 3 years old. Their work ethic is the every bit as good as the Vizlsa. A good one that has time to be brought along properly is a joy to hunt behind, and can easily adjust it's range.
Most are pushed too fast, too young,and handled improperly. They take a firm hand, but not an abusive hand. They need to be anticipated and redirected prior to beginning to make their own decisions, especially when young. Kinda like a young Vizsla. The V is just a little easier to get back once they've lost focus.
That they get too far out is more the fault of the handler than the dog. Sometimes people that own them make allowances for that "big running", and use it as an excuse for not working with the dog more. We have very dense cover in New England and GSP's work it just fine.

I've always liked the GSP's, as well as the Gordon Setters, and the Wire Haired Pointing Griffon. Nice dogs, all three. I'd like to own a Chessie too, but that's a lot of dog.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

I have both a GSP and two V's, so feel somewhat in a position of experience, all be it, not in hunting terms. When out play hunting with my dogs, my pointer will need more verbal control to maintain the appropriate distance for what we are doing. But, I am untrained in hunting and am more allowing there natural instincts to guide me more than me train them. I am adding in some control mechanisms which I know will be needed, other than that, it's happening as a natural thing.

The variances I see in the two breeds, apart from the individual temperaments of the dogs, is that my pointer will always run way out in front if allowed to and the pointer more readily accepts commands and training requires less repetition. 

The two V's will be within 50 metres unless they take off after my pointer. But, this tends only to be one of the V's, the other V enjoys tracking Quail or ducks with me rather than the other dogs.

But, the pointer is almost the same in terms of how she hunts apart from the distance from the handler. However, this is easily controlled with verbal control. In fact, she is a more reactive dog to my commands than either of the V's. 

As for a dog sitting in a blind, while I can see how a V would give the impression that they are not able to chill out, we all know that they are capable of quiet periods. In fact, it was a breed trait, so that the dog would be a pleasant housemate. With both the Vizslas and my GSP, I can have them hold and sneak up behind a bank where Ducks are on the other side. I can make then sit, watching the birds till I say the command and then they flush. So, I think with the right training, both these breeds would be able to become good duck dogs.

As for the retrieving, both the Vizslas I have are more likely to bring back the bird intact. With the pointer, she will half destroy the bird on her way back to me. But, once again, this is all without any real training and I am confident that should I choose to alter that, it would be easily achievable. 

The noses of the GSP and the V are so close it's not funny. Sometimes it's my GSP who locks the scent, other times it is the V's. Although, my youngest Astro, has a higher success rate than the other two. He is a slow paced dog and tends not to run over scents to quickly, hence rarely misses something if its there. 

While I agree that other breeds have advantages in hunting certain things over a V or a GSP, I still think they also have traits which don;t lend themselves as well to other hunting disciplines, where as the V is more able to cover more options for one handler. 

Is a V the Jack of All Trades and Master Of None?? I don't think so, but it's an interesting question. 

I'll be interested to see how all this pans out with my three as they grow into adulthood. Zsa Zsa the GSP is the oldest at a guestimated 19 months (The Rescue centre were not sure exactly how old she was and the vet took a punt) with Ozkar 14 months and Astro 10 months. 

This winter I may take them out to some tracking trials and see how they go. It may not interest them without birds being involved however


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Ozkar-Take PIKE duck hunting when it is warm enough for him-he is not a blind sit and stay dog-instead he likes to sit in the decoy spread and act like a RED log-cracks me up-seems to work-he's the first one to mark incoming birds and the ducks never pay attention 2 him-LOL


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

R said:


> Ozkar-Take PIKE duck hunting when it is warm enough for him-he is not a blind sit and stay dog-instead he likes to sit in the decoy spread and act like a RED log-cracks me up-seems to work-he's the first one to mark incoming birds and the ducks never pay attention 2 him-LOL


Picturing that now!  My GSP is like that when there are a lot of little swallows swooping an oval. She will lay down flat on the ground, back legs under her, front legs in front, ready to pounce when one flies into "springing" range. She thinks they can't see her. 

We started chasing Rabbits last week. The lake where I walk them has a large grassed paddock attached to it. Rabbits are everywhere. (It's OK to kill them over here as they are not native and are in plague proportions. They have become immuned to the mixamatosis virus we introduced the kill the introduced species  )

Astro once again is better at it. He tends to listen to me and be guided by me. Where as, my GSP is off like a bullet. She often runs past rabbits without realising it. Astro got close to both a bunny and a Quail this morning. He is so proud of himself when he finds and flushes a quail for me. I always know when he is on one, as his intensity changes. His body language alters and becomes very focussed and then he points. Once I either hand or voice signal, he will then flush it and as I don't shoot it, he chases it. Sometimes he follows it till it lands again and then points and waits for me to release him again. He loves it. All the while, Zsa Zsa is off chasing shadows as always. I am sure she has a special purpose too, I just need to work out what she likes most. I know with the boys it's more grassy fields that fires them up, but with her, she seams the same in them as she is in a lake or swamp looking for ducks. 

I know she is better with the waves at the beach than the two V's are, perhaps she is a surfer???


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