# Vet question



## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

Quick poll/question.

We recently got back from a camping trip at which Gus spent a lot of time swimming. The night we got home, he woke up in the middle of the night, shaking and whining with pain. Called our vet first thing in the morning, and they fit him in. They asked all sorts of questions, and we happened to mention that he had also had some diarrhea lately.

Long story short, we find out Gus had limber tail syndrome, which basically means he hurt his tail muscles from swimming too much. However, before the vet even examined him, they charged us $500 for a full blood panel, fecal test, and for several antibiotics. This was BEFORE they even physically examined him to find it was just his tail! I am thinking that maybe this is because Gus has issues and has to be sedated before any exam at the vets. However, we feel ripped off. They even pushed more completely unnecessary tests for things he has been vaccinated for but "you never know!". We paid for antibiotics to treat a condition he later tested negative for.

Interestingly, our HUMAN baby has had a diarrhea issue too, and the pediatrician looked at her for 5 minutes, said it's probably just a virus, and sent us on our way. No blood panel, poop tests, anything. 

Is our vet a crook? What do you think? (I'll point out they also sold me a "membership" which includes "free" vet visits for year, however it probably saved us only a couple dollars for this visit...) Time to find a new vet or is this typical?


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

I suggest water borne got you

and most regular vets are tied to big Pharmacy $

they do not know the natural efforts and gifts

they did not read it

So there stuck and cannot process much but passing out drugs

that all have side effects

I would find a middle of the road Vet natural and Western meds educated

and the process you posted and fees

were very wrong to me

I pray you all well soon

Hit the (Pro and Pre Biotics hard and L-Glutamine and Turmeric) 8)

3 weeks 

bring back the core the Guts back and working"

fight the bug the keys to health and these 3 things will help and buffer you

trust this

Zero hate to Vets

we need much more

the good bugs we need "Flora" Antibiotics destroy 

fact


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Sorry, about your experience at the vet. 

I am of the belief that I should stay away from the vet's office (turns out he is a friend) unless it is an emergency. He told me so,.. Because the moment the dog enters their premises they become responsible and need to find out in a methodical way what, if anything is wrong with the patient. 
Cats and dogs don't speak and when they do show pain, it may be a little late. 

That is why our vet (friend) showed us basic vet care. 

You should not feel ripped off , they are trained professionals. 

Hope Gus recovers fast after the visit.


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

Gus is fine now, just a sore tail! We thought it was an emergency- I mean Gus seemed to be in a lot of pain and was shaking. 

I chose this vet office because they seemed to be the best dealing with Gus' behavioral problems, and the Vet is very helpful, and calls after the appointments to check on how he is doing. At the same time, I feel like she's always trying to sell me drugs and/or procedures. 

In any case, after taking the dog to the vet and baby to the pediatrician on the same day, I was left feeling like I either have an awful pediatrician or a crook of a vet. They spent way more time, money and tests on my dog than on my child...


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## jld640 (Sep 29, 2010)

jjohnson - Given Gus' history, I think you have a tough call to make. But, believe it or not, I think you can probably involve your vet in the decision.

If you like how your vet handled Gus' issues on other occasions, then you might try asking her what she would have recommended had you requested a less-aggressive/ more-conservative treatment approach. You might also ask if there was a charge for fitting him in as an emergency case. If you have these conversations as a routine matter-of-course with her, she may scale back on the treatments she recommends. She also may not, and you'll have to evaluate how much her sales-hassle is worth given her willingness to treat Gus. 

As a point of comparison, Savannah's vet charges for a 'fit-in', but not for a same day appointment if one happens to be available. I like Savannah's vet. We have had several conversations about how aggressive treatment should or shouldn't be. He is CLEAR about what he recommends and what he thinks could be delayed. When Savannah had a serious fever, he also gave me CLEAR instructions regarding when I was to scoop and run to the emergency vet if she took a turn for the worse (she didn't) and the risk I ran not leaving her overnight (I slept on the floor with her for 2 nights). My guess is that if I showed up at an emergency appointment saying SEVERE PAIN & diarrhea, our vet would have jumped into overdrive also. I don't have direct experience with pediatricians, but from what I have seen, babies complain more than dogs and have pain thresholds that are easier to gage. 

I'm so glad Gus is ok! Given that, I think I would take another day, a deep breath, and think the whole situation though with the benefit of hindsight. You may still want to replace either your vet or your doc, but from what you wrote, IMO, this one instance can be explained.

Good luck!


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Vets that deal with hunting dogs, can easily diagnose limber tail. My vet has never ordered any test without examining the dog first.


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## lonestar (Jun 2, 2013)

I dont think any one can validate or negate your feelings. They're yours, based on who you are and how you experience things.

That said, I really do believe we humans are at our best when, like our Vizsla brethren, we listen to ourselves. And in your case, the sense of trust has been broken, be it legit or not is irrelevant. You have 3 choices as I see it: 1) Reevaluate the experience and change your perceptions, 2) Confront the vet with your reaction and see if you can work something out, even if it's a just a conversation that clarifies his diagnostic procedure, or 3) Find a new vet.

Don't stew in your own juices with this, make a decision and then follow thru. 

As a P.S. when ever there are "Package deals" beware of ulterior motives. They're doctors, but they're also businessmen. Nothing wrong with that, but there should be a clear line where one begins and the other ends and you should be comfortable with that.


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## SteelCityDozer (Aug 25, 2011)

You already have lots of responses but just to throw it out there, our vet office would also never order tests or similar without first examining. And trust me, we've been there A LOT with Dozer. Maybe it's because of this that they also offer each test or treatment but don't pressure us, because we often decline. But because of how they deal with us I'm also willing to pay their outrageous prices on some things simply because they are so accommodating in general. Dozer can also be a risk. I long time ago I posted about him snapping me. I called the vet immediately so I'm sure the techs know but they all still treat him like an angel. 

The 24/7 hospital on the other hand is a money maker. They did try to pressure is into things and we still declined and I will not return unless seriously warranted.


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks for all of the input! 

@SteelCityDozer - Do they sedate Dozer before examining him? 

I think the issue is ordering the tests before they ever even did a physical examination. The vet pretty immediately could tell it was his tail. I'm just wondering if it was because he had to be sedated that they actually did the examination last.


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Hi Jjohnson,

My guess is that they did all the tests with Gus because they put him under first. Typically, they can't just order tests unless they see the dog and can tell what is wrong. It would be completely backwards not to observe symptoms first. 

With dogs like Gus, maybe they have the attitude that once he is down they should do as much as possible, or since they can't see his behavior, they need extra information? 

They typically have certain things they recommend regardless of the dog's specific scenario. With Oso, we go through the list of recommended treatments/medications and costs and edit. We ask questions - What is more important, the fluid or the _______? This recommends a special diet food, would chicken and rice do the same thing.... on and on and on. Usually, we talk off $100 at least of the bill. And this isn't bargaining, it's just trying to figure out what is actually important and what isn't. I get to do this with the vet. I've had vets just immediately cross things off when I tell them I am saving money.

That being said, I'd rather go to a good vet who tries to upsell, then a poor quality one who does not. We learned this the hard way with our cats. One cat misdiagnosed as having a terminal disease - given weeks to live - he's healthy and with us 5 years later. With another cat they wouldn't recognize a clear allergic reaction to medication given to them. Just ridiculous. 

You could even go in and ask them about that in a respectful way. Let them know that you really enjoy the quality of their services, but feel taken advantage of and would like further explanation of why they proceeded in the order that they did. Also, I would ask for it to be put in Gus's file that he is to receive an examination from the vet before labs are ordered. 

Oh and as for the ridiculous expense, it happens with regular doctors too. My first pregnancy, I started to miscarry very early on and didn't know better than to go into the doctor hoping I could stop the process. I asked for a blood test to validate that the numbers were dropping. They insisted it was necessary that I go through the entire process of getting an ultrasound, etc. as well. These people were very nice and I trusted them. I ended up paying over $1500 for the experience and finding out that the diagnosis was based only on the blood tests (which were read before I even saw the ultrasound technician). There was really no reason for me to go in at all as there was nothing they could do. I felt completely ripped off by the very nice people and also a fool for not standing up for myself better. I now am much more informed about the experience and would have known better than to go in.


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## CrazyCash (Jul 12, 2012)

Sorry that you had a bad experience. One question I'm not quite clear on - who ordered the tests? Was it the vet or the technicians that came in before the actual vet? If the vet isn't physically in the room with me and telling me what tests are being ordered then I wouldn't get them. My vet will examine the dog first and then talk to me about his thoughts and if he feels tests need to be run, then we talk it through first to make sure that I'm ok with everything they want to do. I've gone in before and the tech that takes us into the exam room and gets the vitals has asked me before if I wanted to run some standard things like heart worm tests, but I don't agree to anything until I've talked to the vet.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I know you have posted about Gus in the past, but I don't understand why he has to be sedated for a regular vet visit. Most dogs that are biters, even fear biters can be muzzled before a vet examines them.

I hope the question doesn't offend you.
Its not meant to be condescending.


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

@TexasRed - I wish he didn't have to be sedated since it costs $100 ever time he needs a shot. We use the muzzle (put it on immediately when he enters the office), but he literally attacks the vet with the muzzle on and won't hold still. He growls and tries to bite through the muzzle, basically jabs her with his nose. They can do basic exams that way (she has), but they sure can't give him shots. He's only 60 pounds but strong and squirmy! 

My husband took him this last time, and based on previous history, the vet decided to just sedate him in the exam room while my husband held him, since they weren't sure what needed to be done. I'm not sure who saw him first and ordered the tests? I just know my husband came back furious and saying that we were ripped off. My response at the time was "oh well, he's a member of our family so it's not a big deal, we'll just do what needs to be done!" It really isn't a big deal, I am just wondering if we should look for a better vet. 

On a positive note, Gus' behavior at home around strangers really is getting better as he gets older, surprisingly! We can actually have people in our house now without him, chasing them down. This is not been through any of our doing, just through him maturing I think.


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## KB87 (Jan 30, 2012)

jjohnson, I believe I remember reading that you had used a behaviorist in the past- would it be possible to contact them or find a behaviorist to contact and inquire who they would recommend you taking him to? Let them know that your current vet requires he be sedated and you want to know if you may have options with other local vets who are good with your sort of situation as you feel like it may be impacting the care he's getting (ie: immediately sedating him and/or not looking him over entirely before deciding what to do). I would think that they would be able to help you find someone who Gus is mutually comfortable with. It's worth a shot, in my opinion.


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

Thank you! That's a good suggestion. The behaviorist did recommend a vet I believe; it was just in another town so we haven't been. That may be a good idea to try though, thanks!


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