# good breeders



## beardadx2 (Jul 6, 2017)

Wanting to get a rebel rouser puppy. Went to rozanek kennels and it looks very out dated. Are they still the amazing kennel that they once were? would you still get a rebel rouser dog or go with a diff breeder?


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

I think the real question is what type of dog are you looking for? Are you a serious hunter or looking for a strongly line bred field dog, or are you looking for a pet?
What experience level do you have with dogs in general, and Vizslas specifically?

What makes you want a rebel rouser puppy over another kennel or breeder's puppy? 

I personally choose a pup that I would want based on the particular mating pair and how close I hope that pair comes to my personal choice of dog over any particular name brand or kennel. That is not to say I think there is anything wrong with getting a dog from Rozaneks, We have owned and worked with many Rebel Rouser get over the years. We currently own an E.T. son and daughter from a frozen breeding we did 9 years ago. They are great dogs, hard charging field dogs. What they are not is a beginner dog. 

The kennel facility itself though is lower on the list of what I look for in a pup. Certainly there needs to be a minimum level of hygiene, but primitive facilities can still produce great dogs. I don't know what their facility is like so can't comment on it specifically. The adage "don't judge a book by its cover" comes to mind. One thing is certain, they have a level of breeding history that would be very hard to match.

Ken


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Thank you Ken 
You said it better than I could. 

I will only add, when it comes to hard charging, highly driven dogs. One man's dream dog, is another man's frustration.


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## beardadx2 (Jul 6, 2017)

What kind of dog am i looking for? I am a runner. I run ultra marathons, running upwards of 10 hours at a time. I want a running partner that can keep up, or at least keep up more than my lab who had to quit at 13.1 miles because he did not have the stamina. I also do hunt, upland and duck, more duck than upland. I have had several labs and have trained them to Master Hunter, i like the hunt test here in east Texas better which is why i have never done field trials. I plan on switching gears and learning pointing hunt test. I do want the dog to be able to go hunting with me, but i am not a big 5 state hunter. I also want the dog to be "cool at home". I like a dog to be a pet and to be able to relax at the house. 

So i am new to Vizslas and have been talking will every breeder that would take my call which is 6. Why am i looking at a Rebel Rouser dog, 5 of the breeders bragged that there was Rebel Rouser in the blood line and talked about how amazing the line was and how that you wanted that in the line. I did some research and have found them to be a good line in the past. If you really want Rebel Rouser in the bloodline why not just get a Rebel Rouser dog? 

I understand this dog will be in my house for the next 10-20 years. I only want to make an informed decision and one that will be good for me and the dog. 

The litter im looking at is from 
Rebel Rouser Jax http://www.vizsladatabase.com/details.php?id=66560
and
Rebel Rouser Sexy http://www.vizsladatabase.com/details.php?id=101429

I will take any and all feed back. Thank you

Are all Rebel Rouser's hard charging, what do you mean by hard charging?


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Because your a lab person, I will explain it this way. If it was a lab, they would be the firebreathers of the group. Steadying them can be comparable to the Lean Mac dogs. 
They would be the dogs that run through fire, and ice on a 250 yard cast for the retrieve, and not give up until the bird is found. Can just a little to much dog, for the person wanting to train their first dog. But prefect for the person that wants to compete at a high level, and hunt over.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

Through the years I have had three V's that were bred out to Rebel Rouser dogs. ( All of my V's came from the Upwind line by Lisa Deforrest, whom sadly passed away in 2009.)
Hanks dogs were big running athletes, and combined with the Upwind line made dogs that were all day dogs. There is no comparison between a lab and a vizsla. Their just fundamentally different breeds.
Hard charging doesn't necessarily mean that they run for the hills. In my opinion it is a dog that keeps going and performing, and doesn't have "holes". Mine were big strong boys! They never gave up. These were not "velcro" dogs once you put a bell around their necks.

You will never out run a Vizlsa! It simply is not humanly possible. I was a USCF Cat II cyclist, sub 10 hour at the Iron Man, and competed for the national time trial championships back in the day. My V's were my training partners for all of it, and were also very well trained bird dogs. I say this to let you know, I understand what you may be looking for. The Ultra's might be a bit much for them, just because of the time involved, the pedestrian pace, from a V point of view, and water access.

Your Vizlsa will "cool down", but it's needs a few years. They mature at about 3 in my experience. This doesn't mean the slow down, it just means they get mature about how they use their energy.

My dogs did not not eat like dogs. The were fed chicken beef, rice and fish. Their water was mixed with pedialyte, and I wasn't adverse to putting Glucosamine and Creatine Monohydrate in their food. They ate the way I ate during training season, and hunting season. You won't be able to exclusively pour their food out of a bag. It needs to be adjusted for the demand.

Find a V from a reputable kennel that has a history of producing respectable gun dogs, without health issues. It doesn't have to be from any specific kennel.

Attend some field trials in your area, and get to know the people that are running vizlsas. Talk to them about what you're looking for,and you may find that someone has a 1-2 year old that they know will never make it on the field trials, but would be a good prospect for someone like you. Most folks have very little need for a top running trials dog. You would need a horse to keep up with it. 
The folks running the dogs in your area will be wealth of info.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

I'm very curious about these endurance runs with the dogs. questions I have:

How long/far do you think the dog should be able to run with you?

What is the average speed for an endurance run?

In these endurance runs, are they on trails, or roadways/pavement? 

How does one carry enough water and glycemic supplement to keep the dog going and safe?

What happens when/if the dog decides it has had enough and one is 12, or 20 or 40 miles into the run? How does one get the dog back home?


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Thanks for replying Gunnr. You are certainly the best qualified to understand what he's looking for. I have never been a runner and though curious I far prefer walking, a horse or mechanical conveyance!
Ken


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

WillowyndRanch said:


> I'm very curious about these endurance runs with the dogs. questions I have:
> 
> How long/far do you think the dog should be able to run with you?
> 
> ...


Ken

Mine could and can, (Gunnr is a big runner.) keep up with me for hours. It was not uncommon for me to spend 3-4 hours in the woods with a mountain bike with them, and I was not looking at the scenery.We were moving fast. We would probably cover 20-25 miles on the bike, and maybe 10 on the run. They would loop out into the woods on their own and come back to me. They did;t run by the side of the bike, or me.
I took mine to very specific places, forests, that I knew has many accesses to water, and would "loop" them in such a manner that ever 15 minutes or so they had access to water. I also carried 3-4 water bottles with an the same electrolyte solution I used in my jersey pockets, and on the bike, to get them water also, and there was 5-6 gallons at my truck.
We did this in the early mornings and avoided the mid day heat. Summer time in July and august were too hot and humid to run them like that, so it was just a lot of fun runs, for them, with me running forest roads and trails. Fall, winter, and spring though, we were out there for hours.
They can't take it multiple days in a row, but neither can humans. I used to do two days on and 1 day off for them. The first day after a rest cycle, was an easy build day, lot's of technical mountain biking trails to slow me down. The second was at speed.

I think that a trained and conditioned V could easily run with a human for 3-4 hours or more, as long as they had access to water. The fastest marathoners in the world are doing 4:35- 4:40 miles and that is an easy lope for a vizsla.


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## beardadx2 (Jul 6, 2017)

gunnr, thank you for the information. You sound like a much better athlete than I. I feel confident that my new boy will be able to keep up with me. Were you RR dogs cool and calm around the house, or were they always go go go? as for top running trial dogs, i have no desire for one. I want one that is fun to hunt with and that will run with me, but i guess i could run it on the 4 wheeler if i had to. 

Ken, as far as running goes, i have seen multiple dogs finish 50k races, including a toy Icelandic sheepdog which was a little embarrassing because it beat me. how fast is really a loaded question in ultrarunning, but i average between 8 and 15 miles per hour depending on terrain and heat. i average middle of the pack if that gives an idea of speed. 

I run all my endurance races on trails, but there a few that are run on roads but that is no fun. getting out in the middle of nature is what it is all about. i do however train 50% on roads but the longest i will road run is 10 miles. 

water and food. training runs are self supported so you have to know where the water stops are or know where your trail crosses a road and go put water there before the run. I have a nathan hydration pack (think camelbak) and i care water, food, salt, what ever i need, i also carry food for dog, but i have found that you really need way less food than you think, but i always carry too much water. my dog drinks out of my water bottle but he also had a nack for finding little puddles and laying down in them for a second to cool off. For races there are aid stations every 3-10 miles so you dont have to care with you if you can make it to the next station. 

as far as what happens if you out running and the dog stops running or something. Same thing if i bonk, i walk it in. a little food a little water and hike more often than not you can start running again and bam second wind. however if something bad happens (like bad bad) you have to get out on your own power, that would go with carrying a dog if it could not walk. There is a certain risk to ultrarunning, or trail running in general, and i have seen a lady limp on a broken ankle 3 miles to the next aid station, where she waited over an hour for someone to drive out to the aid station in a quad to drive her back to the start line. some time you have to DNF a race. 

Benjamin


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## MikoMN (Nov 29, 2016)

This is a super interesting thread! I have often wondered how far some of our dogs can go with proper conditioning. It is pretty common for me to do 8-10 miles with Miko on my bike. (Just to clarify, I am on the bike, he is running. Though that would be quite the show.) I am talking about fairly hard riding, not just site seeing. He seems to get fairly tired by the end. Give him 30 minutes to rest, and he is driving to go again. I do try to stop and give him water in the middle, and if he is willing let him take a dip in the river.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

MikoMN

V's are special! They can run for hours as long as they get adequate water and time to cool off if necessary.

A funny story;

I had two of my dogs out in the forest for about 4 hours or so and brought them back to a small pond with a spillway to cool off in, and get water if they wanted it. There was a lady there with a small dog and asked me how long I'd been in the forest with my dogs. I told her we had been there for about 4 hours. 
She told me that my dogs were exhausted, because they were laying in the spillway cooling off, that I was abusing them, and she was going to report me to the ASPCA. As soon as she said this, Silkcut, my larger malehttp://www.vizslaforums.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=120481, then, saw some ducks on the water, across the pond, jumped into the pond, and went straight for them. It took me about 20 minutes to get him out of the water!
I very politely told her that the dogs really were okay.

My dogs could run for hours, so they were easily covering 20+ miles at a whack. They do need a day off though, even if they don't think so! and they don't.


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## MikoMN (Nov 29, 2016)

gunnr said:


> She told me that my dogs were exhausted, because they were laying in the spillway cooling off, that I was abusing them, and she was going to report me to the ASPCA.


Gunr
Thanks for the info. This made me laugh because I too have had ....well meaning people....tell me that my dog was starving, and that I will get in trouble if I don't feed it more. One then proceeded to tell me that I should start feeding him 2 cups a day. (I feed him closer to 4.5).


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