# e-collar



## olofsonb

hi All. I'm Looking To Get An E-Collar For Training And To Use While Hunting. After The Thousands I Have Spent Thus Far I Would Like To Keep The Cost Below $200. It Must Be Water-Proof, Have Tone And Vibration, Distance Isn't An Issue. So Far I'm Thinking The Sportdog 425 Garmin Delta, And The Cabelas Gun Dog GS 4000. If Anyone Who Owns And Uses These Collars Could Help Me Decide, It Would Be Appreciated. Or If You Could Recommend Another It Would Be Greatly Appreciated.


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## redbirddog

http://www.gundogsupply.com/dog-training-collars-quick-picks.html

Good place to start.


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## olofsonb

redbirddog said:


> http://www.gundogsupply.com/dog-training-collars-quick-picks.html
> 
> Good place to start.



That's Actually How I Narrowed It Down To Those 3, Thanks.


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## texasred

I gave my sportdog collar away if that tells you anything.
I'm a tritronics person. Never had it fail on me.
If I couldn't get tritronics, I would go with Dogtra.


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## olofsonb

TexasRed said:


> I gave my sportdog collar away if that tells you anything.
> I'm a tritronics person. Never had it fail on me.
> If I couldn't get tritronics, I would go with Dogtra.


tritonics Was Bought By Garmin So Should I Go With That Then?


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## texasred

You can still get titronics but yes Garmin bought them out. I don't know how long the tritronic is going to be supported by the company, so my next will be garmin.


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## WillowyndRanch

Intellectual Property removed by Author.


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## giandaliajr

We have the delta sport and it works great. No issues since we got it about 6 months ago


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## lildancngurl

We've got a Garmin collar and it's perfect. No issues at all. 

http://www.gundogsupply.com/garmin-delta-sport.html


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## MilesMom

We have 2 sport dog collars, one for each dog. Works well for us but we don't hunt, just off leash hiking/ running.


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## SuperV

http://www.vizslaforums.com/index.php/topic,10804.msg81292.html#msg81292

friend of mine has this for sale

Not sure what your intentions are, but this is a great collar. If the beeper aspect doesn't interest you, he told me he would sell it without it, which would bring the price down closer to 300. If you don't hunt you probably won't need the beeper, but I suppose you could use it as a cheap alternative to a GPS....

Shoot me an email if you have any questions...

Nate.


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## texasred

My tritronics collars take a beating, from saltwater to marshes, or heavy cover. They are thrown on the dash of the truck, and experience the Texas summer heat of being left there. They can reach out and nick a dog at distances that sometimes amaze me, because the dog is well out of range of hearing a whistle in high wind.

The sportdog collar would fail on me at the worst times, and it didn't have as many levels as needed. 
Having two dogs out running 200 yards from you and the sport dog could fail. If the dogs were close enough together I could beep the one wearing the tritonics, and both dogs would hear it, and come in.
I look at ecollars like insurance. Do I want to go with the cheaper one and hope I don't need it? Or go with the better one and know I'm covered.


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## Melissa_DT

After months of debating I have decided to get an ecollar for my boy. Reading up on ecollars here on the forum as well as other reviews I ordered the Garmin Delta Sport. Should have it within a couple days.


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## dextersmom

Just did the same thing a few weeks ago, Melissa_DT. Happy with it so far!


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## R E McCraith

moved up to a garmin alpha for where & how I hunt PIKE - 4 every day have a sport basic G3 by tritronics - what I like 2 look 4 - the range I will need - # of funtions & stim levels - # pups you can run on the transmitter - a beeper or vibrate is a must !! with training this is all you will need 90% of the time - rechargeable reciever a must - my G3 is 4yrs old & still works great - the units are beat up because it is used everyday


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## olofsonb

Well, I Went And Bought Me A Garmin Delta Off Ebay. Was Hard Not To At $125 Brand New With Shipping. I'll Let You Guys Know How It Goes In A Couple Months. Thanks For The Help.


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## WillowyndRanch

Intellectual Property removed by Author.


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## WillowyndRanch

Intellectual Property removed by Author.


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## SuperV

WillowyndRanch said:


> This may seem like a silly question, but did you buy BOTH the handheld and the collar? Without the handheld (transmitter) the collar (receiver) is useless.
> Ken


Well wouldn't that be a bummer if it is wasn't the complete package! ;D

Nate


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## olofsonb

Haha That Definitely Would Have Been A Bummer. I Did Buy The Entire Package Brand New Off A Reputable Seller On Ebay. I Figure If It Breaks I Learn A Couple Things. 1) 125$!...Great Deal Lol 2) I Determine If It Worked Well Enough To Buy Again Or Get A Different OneI. 3) I'm Glad I Only Spent $125 Vs. $170-$200


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## WillowyndRanch

Intellectual Property removed by Author.


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## olofsonb

I Understand, I Hope You Don't Take It Personally. With This Being My First Dog My "Start Up" Costs Are Draining My Bank Account Thin. There's Still A Few More Things I Wanna Get But As You See In The Pic I Do Have A Lot After Months Of Preparing. Food/Treats Etc In Upper Right. Toys Upper Left. Training/Hunting Aids Lower Left, And The First Puppy Crate In The Lower Right. Short Of Annual Expenses And A Ruff Tough Kennel(I'm In TheProcess Of Getting One) I Think I'm Just About There. Can't Wait To Bring Copper Home End Of March.


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## hobbsy1010

WillowyndRanch said:


> Glad to hear. May be reputable as far as ebay is concerned, but since I deal with Garmin and TT, I know they can't be an authorized dealer from Garmin.
> 
> Also saw that on ebay most Delta collars only or handhelds only sell for more than what you paid for the bundle, so kudos on getting a good price, bad for those of us that work within the rules though.
> 
> Hope it all works well for you
> Ken


Some V owners still have a budget to keep to in this 'financial climate'!!

Stick with a the Acme 210.5 , no batteries required and still only £3 a pop!!!!!!!!!! 

Hobbsy :


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## einspänner

olofsonb said:


> With This Being My First Dog My "Start Up" Costs Are Draining My Bank Account Thin.


I feel you. I keep thinking I should set up a kissing booth in the yard and make Scout earn her keep. Does 2 bucks for a minute of kisses sound reasonable?


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## olofsonb

einspänner said:


> olofsonb said:
> 
> 
> 
> With This Being My First Dog My "Start Up" Costs Are Draining My Bank Account Thin.
> 
> 
> 
> I feel you. I keep thinking I should set up a kissing booth in the yard and make Scout earn her keep. Does 2 bucks for a minute of kisses sound reasonable?
Click to expand...

I Was Contemplating Doing An Opposite Of Doggy Daycare. If You Were Thinking Of Owning A Vizsla I Could Rent You My Dog For The Day. Just An idea ... $50 Per Night, $125 For 3 And $500 A Week.


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## Carolina Blue

Olofsonb - do keep in mind, do not use the collar until the pup is a minimum of 6 months old and also knows the basic commands.

Also, test the collar on yourself before putting on him. If you can feel the charge, the collar is most likely too strong for the dog. If you can, find a trainer to help with training you and the dog.

Just a thought!


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## SuperV

Carolina said:


> Olofsonb - do keep in mind, do not use the collar until the pup is a minimum of 6 months old and also knows the basic commands.
> 
> Also, test the collar on yourself before putting on him. If you can feel the charge, the collar is most likely too strong for the dog. If you can, find a trainer to help with training you and the dog.
> 
> Just a thought!


Very good point!!! You can't just put that e-collar on and nick her with it and expect her to know how to respond. Strongly recommend doing some reading/homework on how to properly use it or find someone experienced with how to properly use it to help you out. As carolina blue mentioned, it doesn't replace the need for you to teach your dog commands without the e-collar. The E-collar is introduced after the dog knows the commands not before or during.....

Nate


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## olofsonb

Thanks. I Will Probly Start Using It As Soon As I Get The Pup For The Tone And Vibration Settings That I Will Have Correspond With Specific Commands (.Tone For Come And Heel, Vibration For Stay And Woah) As For The Actual Zaps I Have Tried Several On Myself And To Levels Much Higher Than I Plan On Using On Copper. I Have Watched/ Read Several Training Techniques. I'll Probly Just Try A Variation Of All Until We Figure Out What Works Best For Copper.


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## MilesMom

As someone who has recently trained two pups on the e collar, I would wait the 6 months. The puppy is a baby, think about the brain capacity of a 2 year old human.... Focus on basic command with positive reinforcement. Adding the e collar will make it too complicated, especially if it's your first puppy. 

You also need to remember that wearing just one collar is new for a puppy, let alone two!

We put the e collar on Chase at 5 months and just had him wear it for a month when we went out. Turned it on at 6 months.


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## WillowyndRanch

message deleted by author


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## R E McCraith

Start Up costs - 2 baby Kongs as toys - a whistle - light check cord - food - Vet - most important birds 2 train on - a good lead - time & energy to train - that is good 4 the first 6m0 -year - I would not train a pup in first 6mo with beep or buzz - eye contact & a soft voice are all you need - THAT's FREE !!!!!!


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## dextersmom

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but since a lot of people on it mentioned using the Garmin Delta ecollar... would any of you mind sharing what your dog's level is if you use that model? I know every dog is different but I'm very curious! Dexter got his for Christmas (haha) and has been wearing it on outings for the past few weeks. We just started actually turning it on and so far he doesn't seem to have any reaction to anything under level 5. Although that did warrant a head turn the first time, so we will probably work some more at level 4 and see if we can get a less noticeable reaction with that for a while. I tested on my wrist and expected him to respond at something a bit lower so it made me wonder. (Although he's never been one of the "softer" V's!) Anyone else's V need a level that high?


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## Melissa_DT

dextersmom said:


> I hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but since a lot of people on it mentioned using the Garmin Delta ecollar... would any of you mind sharing what your dog's level is if you use that model? I know every dog is different but I'm very curious! Dexter got his for Christmas (haha) and has been wearing it on outings for the past few weeks. We just started actually turning it on and so far he doesn't seem to have any reaction to anything under level 5. Although that did warrant a head turn the first time, so we will probably work some more at level 4 and see if we can get a less noticeable reaction with that for a while. I tested on my wrist and expected him to respond at something a bit lower so it made me wonder. (Although he's never been one of the "softer" V's!) Anyone else's V need a level that high?


I just got Bentley's Delta Sport last week so I still have it in off mode. Once I turn it on I will report back. I also tried it on myself and I am assuming level 3-4ish but we will see!


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## SuperV

dextersmom said:


> I hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but since a lot of people on it mentioned using the Garmin Delta ecollar... would any of you mind sharing what your dog's level is if you use that model? I know every dog is different but I'm very curious! Dexter got his for Christmas (haha) and has been wearing it on outings for the past few weeks. We just started actually turning it on and so far he doesn't seem to have any reaction to anything under level 5. Although that did warrant a head turn the first time, so we will probably work some more at level 4 and see if we can get a less noticeable reaction with that for a while. I tested on my wrist and expected him to respond at something a bit lower so it made me wonder. (Although he's never been one of the "softer" V's!) Anyone else's V need a level that high?


How tight is your collar? most don't have the collars tight enough to make consistent contact at all times. When its lose, the contact is poor, and the dog is seemingly immune to zaps, but then in the instance where the probes are making good contact, the dog will nearly jump out of its skin!

you should only be to fit two fingers under the collar...then mark the hole on the collar, so you install it the same tightness each time... 

nate


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## texasred

To find his training number he needs to be relaxed, not asleep just relaxed. You can do it inside the house where there is no distractions. You should see just a tiny reaction from him. Sometimes its as small as a ear twitch.

Later you may have to move the collar up a number when he is heavily distracted, but remember to move it back down.


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## dextersmom

@Melissa_DT - I assumed the same thing which is why I was surprised! Keep me posted on how things go for you and your pup!

@TexasRed - I'm glad you suggested trying to find his level inside the house. I wanted to do it inside, but his recall is 100% in the house so I was hesitant to nick him for no reason. But it certainly would make gauging his reaction easier so I will go that route next. Just too much sniffing to be done outside!

@SuperV - You're right, for some reason the collar isn't making enough contact with him. I tried again last night and the 5 didn't even get a reaction. I tried it on myself again using the continuous (had only tested the momentary to start with) and it sure made me jump! I experimented using the vibe feature and it immediately got his attention more so than any nick so far. Since I can't even feel the vibe on myself but do hear the noise, I'm thinking he's responding to the noise and not the actual sensation. I do put his collar on quite tight though (I had put it on before I read your post so I checked... I could barely even get two fingers under it). It doesn't budge or slip at all while he runs around. He does have an incredible amount of excessive skin around his neck (he's already 53 lbs. @ 8 months... starting to wonder just how much bigger he is going to get!) so maybe that's the culprit. We start with a new trainer this week so I will have her check my placement, etc. and see if she can figure out what I'm doing wrong. Right now I've got the collar high up on his neck, receiver just off to the left of his throat.

Thanks all!


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## texasred

I use a tritronics collar so I'm not sure how hot a 5 is on the one your using, it would be pretty hot on mine. How hot does it feel on your wrist?
With that said all of my dogs are different numbers.
June will respond to a 1 even under heavy distraction. Cash is a 2 but will sometimes need a 3 and then back down to 2. Tiny sweet Lucy was a tough one and it took a 4 when she was young. She now requires a 3, and if she goes on chase I may have to move it to 5. She has always been on the collar resistant side.


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## texasred

dextersmom said:


> I hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but since a lot of people on it mentioned using the Garmin Delta ecollar... would any of you mind sharing what your dog's level is if you use that model? I know every dog is different but I'm very curious! Dexter got his for Christmas (haha) and has been wearing it on outings for the past few weeks. We just started actually turning it on and so far he doesn't seem to have any reaction to anything under level 5. Although that did warrant a head turn the first time, so we will probably work some more at level 4 and see if we can get a less noticeable reaction with that for a while. I tested on my wrist and expected him to respond at something a bit lower so it made me wonder. (Although he's never been one of the "softer" V's!) Anyone else's V need a level that high?


I know this post is from earlier this month, but the same question came up on a different forum.
They were having to use a higher number with the Delta than TT, on a already ecollar trained dog.
I sent a email to gundogs and received a phone call same day.
He said "No doubt about it, Delta Garmins are not as hot as the TT collars."
He did have high praises for the Garmin Alpha.


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## dextersmom

Ah, I am glad you posted that TexasRed. We met with our trainer earlier this week since I was having trouble getting any sort of response with the e-collar. She checked out my placement/tightness of the collar and that was all fine and the prongs should be making contact. After playing around with it for some time, we finally got a response... at level EIGHT. And his response to that level is just to scratch. Both her and I had a hard time believing it. But sure enough, nothing at the lower levels and scratching every time we nicked at level 8. Now, I'm still quite confused because I've never even tested the collar on myself above level 5 (and had never nicked him at a higher level than that until the trainer did) and that WAS still quite strong. I'm imagining level 8 would be somewhere near hitting the hot wire on the horse fence. I keep thinking the collar must not be making contact with him correctly or something, but we got a very consistent (and pretty mild) reaction at level 8. I'm definitely going to keep playing around with it before I start working at level 8 regularly, it's so much higher than I had anticipated that I'm just not sure how comfortable I am! I should mention the trainer is well experienced with e-collars (though doesn't use this model herself) and V's. Any thoughts?


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## texasred

I was told this years ago on a collar resistant dog.
"Its not the level you are comfortable with that matters, its what level the dog is comfortable with, and responses to." I have to say the person (trainer) had more experience than me, and was right.
If it helps you any, the dog on the other forum needs a level 10, and up to 12 when in chase mode. With a TT collar the dogs level is 3, so there is a big difference between the collars corrections.


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## olofsonb

I Actually Got My Collar 2 Weeks Ago, The Garmin Delta. For People That Think These "Training Aids" Are Abuse, They Truly Aren't. First Thing I Did- Charged It. Second Thing I Did- Took It To The Highest Level (18 I Believe) And Nicked Myself On My Neck...Followed With My 16 Year Old Brother, And Forcing It On The 14 Year Old Brother (More For Amusement Than Education At That Point Lol). However I Was Able To Learn The Very Worst That My Collar Could Put Out Truly Wasn't That Bad, But Definitely Recognizable. After Trying Each And Every Level I Doubt I Will Ever Need ToGo Past An 8.


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## hobbsy1010

olofsonb said:


> I Actually Got My Collar 2 Weeks Ago, The Garmin Delta. For People That Think These "Training Aids" Are Abuse, They Truly Aren't. First Thing I Did- Charged It. Second Thing I Did- Took It To The Highest Level (18 I Believe) And Nicked Myself On My Neck...Followed With My 16 Year Old Brother, And Forcing It On The 14 Year Old Brother (More For Amusement Than Education At That Point Lol). However I Was Able To Learn The Very Worst That My Collar Could Put Out Truly Wasn't That Bad, But Definitely Recognizable. After Trying Each And Every Level I Doubt I Will Ever Need ToGo Past An 8.


Wasn't that bad, but definitely recognisable!!!!!!!!

A contradiction in terms if I ever heard one!!!!!!!!!

Never mind, each to his own!! :-\

Hobbsy


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## olofsonb

hobbsy1010 said:


> olofsonb said:
> 
> 
> 
> I Actually Got My Collar 2 Weeks Ago, The Garmin Delta. For People That Think These "Training Aids" Are Abuse, They Truly Aren't. First Thing I Did- Charged It. Second Thing I Did- Took It To The Highest Level (18 I Believe) And Nicked Myself On My Neck...Followed With My 16 Year Old Brother, And Forcing It On The 14 Year Old Brother (More For Amusement Than Education At That Point Lol). However I Was Able To Learn The Very Worst That My Collar Could Put Out Truly Wasn't That Bad, But Definitely Recognizable. After Trying Each And Every Level I Doubt I Will Ever Need ToGo Past An 8.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, Let Me Revise It.
> 
> It Didn't Hurt...At All. I Did Feel My Muscle In My Neck Tighten.
> In Case I Wasn't Clear On My Prior Statement.
Click to expand...


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## dextersmom

Thanks TexasRed. That helps immensely and makes me feel a bit better! He isn't stressed by it, so I don't know why I am  And I'm sure he wants the eventual off leash freedom even more than I do!


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## dextersmom

Quick update on Dex's e-collar work: He's finally gotten the hang of it! Rarely needs a nick anymore for his recall, hooray! He is indeed a level 8 or 9 on the Garmin Delta collar. He has ignored as high as a 10 (out of 15), but very rarely. It's usually due to his collar needing re-adjusting. Thanks for the tip on marking the correct hole on the collar, SuperV, that solves the problem most of the time! Quite amazing to see how effective the collar is - I would never have trusted him off leash at all before using it!


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## dextersmom

@Melissa_DT - how's the e-collar going with Bentley?


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## Melissa_DT

Hey Dextersmon, sorry for the delayed reply! The collar has been going well. Usually he comes with the tone which I use at the same time as the "come command" but if we are out with my friend and her dog or he's super distracted I will still have to use the stim on about level 8 (there's 18 levels on mine) because he pretty much ignores anything below it. But I definitely see a huge improvement in his recall so to me that is money and time well spent. Bentley is not at all a food motivated dog so whenever I tried to use the treat method for recall training it never worked because he wouldn't even take the treat (even if I used something very high value that he goes crazy for when we are at home). When he's outside he seems to think he has better things to do than eat treats!

Overall I've been having to use the stim less and less and soon I think the tone will be all he needs


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## olofsonb

Melissa_DT said:


> Hey Dextersmon, sorry for the delayed reply! The collar has been going well. Usually he comes with the tone which I use at the same time as the "come command" but if we are out with my friend and her dog or he's super distracted I will still have to use the stim on about level 8 (there's 18 levels on mine) because he pretty much ignores anything below it. But I definitely see a huge improvement in his recall so to me that is money and time well spent. Bentley is not at all a food motivated dog so whenever I tried to use the treat method for recall training it never worked because he wouldn't even take the treat (even if I used something very high value that he goes crazy for when we are at home). When he's outside he seems to think he has better things to do than eat treats!
> 
> Overall I've been having to use the stim less and less and soon I think the tone will be all he needs


Copper is very similar i feel. We too use the tone setting for the "come" command. He knows this as well as other commands, but it's another story when there's another dog or scent that has his attention. Currently a 3 is all I need but I've done a 4 too.


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