# Neuter or not and if so when?



## mnadraus (Jun 7, 2015)

Neuter or not and if so when? I have been googling this and wanted to hear it from you guys here. I have been told not to, and also to neuter. I have been told to do it at 18 months, 1 yr and other ranges. Whats your thoughts and experiences with this?


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/04/unspoken-truth-about-spaying-and.html

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2011/01/rethinking-spay-neuter-in-2011.html

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2011/07/on-going-discussion-on-spay-and-neuter.html

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2011/10/why-not-to-spayneutered-your-vizsla.html

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2014/06/visla-study-on-neutering-and-cancer.html

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2013/10/dr-becker-truth-about-spaying-and.html

msadraus, let me know if you need more information. There is also the tab on the upper right corner where you can search "spay" for more information. Glad you are asking. Most don't and spay or neuter too early.

Good luck with your red bird dog.

RBD


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Spay - neauter ? when left up 2 me - unless it is a health ? Who giVes you the RIGHT ?


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## Spy Car (Sep 3, 2014)

I'm keeping Chester intact. I firmly believe it is best for his health and well-being.

Bill


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

We had our girl spayed at about 18 months old. She had not gone into heat and was incredibly skinny.
We also have a non breeding contract with our breeder.
Waiting until at least 18 months old allows the dog to be healthy physiologically and mature. I think it is a peace of mind knowing that there will be no more heat cycles and no possibility of unwanted puppies. This is just the way it is for us, I'm not saying that spaying or neutering is right for every one. We also went on our breeder's recommendations.


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## tknafox2 (Apr 2, 2013)

Fergy will be 2 yrs on the 25th of this Mo. We are just trying to pick up the phone to make the appointment for his fix. My hubby and I keep saying " well I guess we should do it" "yep, I guess its time" etc. We have some good reasons to get it done, and none really to postpone it. He is just so beautiful intact. Our biggest reason is the effect an intact dog has on other male dogs... We love to take him to the dog beach, and run off leash in our parks and canyons. It is sometime dangerous as other male dogs want to give him trouble. He could care less about them, most of the time, but there are some dogs he puts his chest into and gets a little snarky with. 
I guess truly the biggest issue is electing to do something so invasive, voluntarily, that is so unnecessary, yet socially required. Just so we can all get along.


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## Spy Car (Sep 3, 2014)

tknafox2 said:


> Fergy will be 2 yrs on the 25th of this Mo. We are just trying to pick up the phone to make the appointment for his fix. My hubby and I keep saying " well I guess we should do it" "yep, I guess its time" etc. We have some good reasons to get it done, and none really to postpone it. He is just so beautiful intact. Our biggest reason is the effect an intact dog has on other male dogs... We love to take him to the dog beach, and run off leash in our parks and canyons. It is sometime dangerous as other male dogs want to give him trouble. He could care less about them, most of the time, but there are some dogs he puts his chest into and gets a little snarky with.
> I guess truly the biggest issue is electing to do something so invasive, voluntarily, that is so unnecessary, yet socially required. Just so we can all get along.


I'd suggest looking at all the links RBD posted to his blog and reading the Rottweiler study, the Golden Retreiver Study, and the Vizsla study prior to deciding you've got no reason not to neuter.

The science-based evidence of the harms involved in castration are pretty clear. Those experienced with dogs don't need studies to see the differences in the physical and emotional conditions of intact dogs. 

I'd urge you to really think it through.

Bill


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Tkn ? did your Vet say neutering would make the 2yr old more passive ? it's a coin flip - I would first try going to a pro trainer familar with V's or at least familiar with high strung pointers - as a V mutures they tend 2 get a little more mellow - fact is a well bred V will defend its self - intact or not !


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## chilithevizsla (Apr 2, 2014)

tknafox2 said:


> Fergy will be 2 yrs on the 25th of this Mo. We are just trying to pick up the phone to make the appointment for his fix. My hubby and I keep saying " well I guess we should do it" "yep, I guess its time" etc. We have some good reasons to get it done, and none really to postpone it. He is just so beautiful intact. Our biggest reason is the effect an intact dog has on other male dogs... We love to take him to the dog beach, and run off leash in our parks and canyons. It is sometime dangerous as other male dogs want to give him trouble. He could care less about them, most of the time, but there are some dogs he puts his chest into and gets a little snarky with.
> I guess truly the biggest issue is electing to do something so invasive, voluntarily, that is so unnecessary, yet socially required. Just so we can all get along.


I enjoy going to "Viz Whizzes" where there's a lot of entire Vizslas. We have a few that do this kind of thing and a few that don't bother but it stops about 1.5 hours in when they've all calmed down and had a good run. This tells me that it's either just over excitement but being expressed in the wrong way or the dog is insecure about it's position so needs to express it, nothing nasty and probably something neutering will not fix. The problem with neutering to fix behavioral problems is that it's very hit and miss, it may work for john's dog but it make michael's dog worse or have no effect. Most the time I have this discussion with people who swear by neutering to fix problems they usually won't disclose what type of training they tried meaning they're usually just those people looking for a quick fix.

I would try some form of training with this kind of behavior before just in case it's fixable without removing a part from your dogs body but that's just my opinion.


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## lilyloo (Jun 20, 2012)

Ruby is 3 and I don't really want to get her spayed but I think we're going to go ahead and do it this summer. 
Two reasons: I'm terrified of her developing pyometra when she gets older. Also, she has gone into heat twice in her 3 years of life and both times she has had awful false pregnancies. They're way, way worse to deal with than the heat cycle itself and seem to be really hard on her.


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## tknafox2 (Apr 2, 2013)

"I would try some form of training with this kind of behavior before just in case it's fixable without removing a part from your dogs body but that's just my opinion." Quote from Chilithevizsla

I think there is a misunderstanding of what I said here. It is not Fergy who has an issue with other dogs fixed or intact. He is very social and friendly with all dogs "literally"... it is the other dogs that have issue with him. I did mention that occasionally he will show some dominance by bumping another dog with his chest, or mounting it. This is not a behavioral problem with him. It is easily managed with a correction, and very infrequent. 
If we lived in the country or had wide open spaces for him to roam, I would not consider fixing him for a second, but in a large city like LA, it is truly a social expectation. I would be a hypocrite to leave my dog intact, but be resentful of the owner of a pit bull who won't alter their dog.
Those of us who live in highly dog populated areas do not always have such a freedom of choice.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Tkn - did not answer my ? - @ 2yrs old - would like recall @ 90% - they r teens - & I HATE %s - did u & the hub - ever ask what is right 4 your V - not your lifestyle - I only have control over my V - not the rest of the VVorld !!!!!!!!!


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## Spy Car (Sep 3, 2014)

tknafox2 said:


> "I would try some form of training with this kind of behavior before just in case it's fixable without removing a part from your dogs body but that's just my opinion." Quote from Chilithevizsla
> 
> I think there is a misunderstanding of what I said here. It is not Fergy who has an issue with other dogs fixed or intact. He is very social and friendly with all dogs "literally"... it is the other dogs that have issue with him. I did mention that occasionally he will show some dominance by bumping another dog with his chest, or mounting it. This is not a behavioral problem with him. It is easily managed with a correction, and very infrequent.
> If we lived in the country or had wide open spaces for him to roam, I would not consider fixing him for a second, but in a large city like LA, it is truly a social expectation. I would be a hypocrite to leave my dog intact, but be resentful of the owner of a pit bull who won't alter their dog.
> Those of us who live in highly dog populated areas do not always have such a freedom of choice.


I live in LA and there is no way I'm castrating my V. Way too damaging to health for me to be cowed by the "rescue culture" mentality that is at war with dogs living in their natural states. Read the studies. 

Bill


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## miru (Sep 9, 2014)

hello,

Leo is 13 months old.
He is intact and he is going to live like this,in spite of us living in Switzerland,a place with very high social expectations for dogs .

We are going to an Obeissance group once a week,a place where he plays with other dogs and trains nice behaviour.
It's working wonderfully on manners and i hope we will stay out of trouble with an intact,healthy,happy dog.
As for other dogs attacking ....as REM says,I am only responsable for my dog not for the entire world!..And the only male that showed signs of hostility (till now) was a neutered one!

Good luck
Miru


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## Bob Engelhardt (Feb 14, 2012)

chilithevizsla said:


> So you plan on neutering your dog to correct other people's dog's behavioral issues? it won't work for obvious reasons I'm afraid.
> ...


It's not obvious to me. If neutered dogs pick on an intact dog, but not other neutered dogs, why wouldn't neutering stop it?

Of course one isn't responsible for & can't control other dogs, but that's not an answer. You still have to deal with them. You can isolate yourself from them, but that doesn't work very well for the urban/suburban dog for whom the dog park is his exercise and social life.

I think that the tone of this topic has become a bit judgmental. To neuter or not is the owner's choice. Circumstances vary. We can contribute our own experiences, but we shouldn't debate that it's right & otherwise wrong.

Bob


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## chilithevizsla (Apr 2, 2014)

Bob said:


> chilithevizsla said:
> 
> 
> > So you plan on neutering your dog to correct other people's dog's behavioral issues? it won't work for obvious reasons I'm afraid.
> ...


The dog is and always has been entire, how then can you say that the dog is getting picked on because it is entire when you have not met the dogs with both conditions met to conpare?

For all we know the dog is having trouble because it's just running into a lot of aggro dogs or the dogs mannerism is one which other dogs do not like and neutering won't change that.

I'm not judging anyone, there's no point because I cannot stop anyone from neutering their dogs but I can give my opinion and educate so I know people are going into the process with their eyes wide open instead of altering a dog because they were told some myth that fixing a dog is a cure for all things behavioural.


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

Here here!


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

There have been some owners that have noticed neutered dogs do have a tendency to go after intact males. Even though its the neutered dogs that have the problem, I can see a owner becoming tired of their dog getting jumped on. I guess you would have to look at what type of impact neutering may play of your dogs overall welfare. Take that into consideration, and then use your best judgment in making your decision.


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## Bob Engelhardt (Feb 14, 2012)

chilithevizsla said:


> ...
> I'm not judging anyone, ... but I can give my opinion and educate ... they were told some myth ...


Well, you aren't being explicit and saying "That's wrong", but when you say you "can educate" you're implying that your point of view is the educated one and the others are ignorant and/or myth based. That's the tone that I think is judgmental.

Bob


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## chilithevizsla (Apr 2, 2014)

Bob said:


> chilithevizsla said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


But I am educated in this manner? I've talked to behaviourists, read studies etc so shouldn't I be able to share that knowledge, that doesn't mean I'm judging anyone? How is anyone meant to learn if the educTed sharing their knowledge is seen as judgmental?

If someone says neutering will stop x issue for definite then they're wrong (unless they're talking about getting another dog pregnant), that's a fact. If the OP turned round now and said they'd neutered their dog today all I would say is good luck in the future and I hope it fixes any issues you had. I wouldn't attack them or feel superior about it.

I'm not the only one in this thread pro neuter and skeptical of its Power to stop behaviour so idk why you seem to only have a problem with me.


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## Bob Engelhardt (Feb 14, 2012)

I'm 75 and I've noticed that as I age and gain experience, I have become less certain of many of the things I thought I knew. Too often I found myself wrong about things that I was certain were true. Now I am careful about what I assert and when others are assertive, I am skeptical. Depending upon the credibility that they might have earned.



chilithevizsla said:


> ...
> I'm not the only one in this thread pro neuter and skeptical of its Power to stop behaviour so idk why you seem to only have a problem with me.


Indeed you are not. My replies quoted you, but were intended to address a wider context. And it's not anti-neuter that I object to, but the dogmatic nature of its presentation.

Bob


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Chili - once again the reply's 2 the OP have gone OFF COURSE !!! this is your fault - how hard is it 2 just express your opinion and not attack those of others ? I say pick the best & leave the rest - I'm not frustrated with my pups - but you said I was - no you have not met my pups - but you bring this up - BOB @ 75 - me just a few yrs younger - when experience means nothing - lets just kill our parents - and read your posts !!!!!!!


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## chilithevizsla (Apr 2, 2014)

R said:


> Chili - once again the reply's 2 the OP have gone OFF COURSE !!! this is your fault - how hard is it 2 just express your opinion and not attack those of others ? I say pick the best & leave the rest - I'm not frustrated with my pups - but you said I was - no you have not met my pups - but you bring this up - BOB @ 75 - me just a few yrs younger - when experience means nothing - lets just kill our parents - and read your posts !!!!!!!


I have never said you were frustrated with your pups and I was just expressing my expressing my opinion until Bob took up a trouble with that. I'm not here to start any argument, just express my opinion and educate anyone who needs it so everyone should get on with it.

Edit: honestly if you have a problem with me or the way I go about giving advise PM ME instead of dragging the thread through drama.


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## Canadian Expy (Feb 27, 2013)

We were able to keep our boy intact until almost 2 years of age, and previously had no plans to neuter. Our boy was well socialised, and never had any issues with males or females, altered or unaltered. 

However, between 12-14 months of age, we started to notice some dogs reacting aggressively towards our boy - and it was always neutered males. There were many incidents, and a couple of bites to our boy, but nothing serious and he didn't seem overly affected. Then there was one very vicious attack from a large male German Shepherd (neutered) which physically harmed my boy, but more importantly mentally harmed him. He was no longer the happy, social boy he was and became fearful of many dogs. Outside the home he was always on edge and anxious, and wasn't enjoying his walks, etc like he used to.

After this attack we still had no plans to neuter. But neutered males continued to react to him continued, and after a few more close calls set back our training to resolve his fear issues, we made the difficult decision to have him neutered.

The reaction of the neutered dogs to our boy was entirely out of my control, and each incident happened when I thought I was in a controlled environment but not all dog owners obey the rules. The only thing I have control over is the training I do with my dog, and I am happy that after almost a year of working on it he is happy and no longer fearful. He still avoids Shepherds, Doodles, etc (dogs who he had the worst experience with) but he does not react negatively to them. Dogs that were reacting aggressively towards him while he was intact now pay no attention. 

Though I am not pro neuter and will keep our future males intact for as long as possible, we weighed the pros and cons and felt the mental damage continued attacks would have on our boy would impact his happiness and quality of life the greatest. Each owner needs to do their research and decide what is best for them. This issue is not black and white.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

We either have two choices.
Continue the conversation in a informative manner and it can continues, or bicker and it gets shut down.


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

I've done some cleanup in this thread. Any further comments attacking a member will be deleted and warnings or further measures implemented. In the future please just report posts you find offensive and we will review them. In the meantime please familiarize yourself with the forum rules here http://www.vizslaforums.com/index.php/topic,21698.0.html

thanks,
a moderator


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

The facts are in: Spaying and neutering increases health problems later in life, and there's growing concern especially about the link btwn removing gonads that are responsible for more than just fertility and hemangiosarcoma.....you hope you never know about this.

There's no real reason to neuter boys...aside from the health implications, I think they look funny without them, and their behavior doesn't "improve". If you absolutely must spay, for health benefits, at east wait 2 years.


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## tknafox2 (Apr 2, 2013)

;D
Sorry, I'm a sick person, couldn't help myself....


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

TKN - LOL - that pic of MOUNTAIN OYSTERS - just made a family feast EASY !!!!!!!!


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## Bob Engelhardt (Feb 14, 2012)

Gingerling said:


> ... There's no real reason to neuter boys...


Have you read all the posts in this topic? The subject is controversial here and one is wise to not be categorical in their posts.

Bob


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

ROTFLMAO
We have now lowered ourselves to pig porn.

I have to tell this story.
We were duck hunting, and had a younger teenager hunting with us.
This bull comes strolling up, with ones that would put that pig to shame. They were almost dragging the ground. Some one mention "That's a lot of bull." The teenager said "It has no horns, so has to be a cow." After everyone in the blind stop rolling with laughter, we pointed out what made it a bull.


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