# Advice needed please



## LunaAutumn (Nov 11, 2012)

Morning,

I am hoping that by posting this message someone can give me some give me some much needed advice. 
We have a beautiful, if not stubborn 9 month old spayed female V, i have had a good look through previous posts searching for a training solution to our biggest problem with her and cannot find exactly what i am looking for ( apologies if i have missed a post somewhere) 

We took Luna at 12 weeks and started straight away with basic training in the home and garden, she took to commands easily and quickly toilet trained to go out and then settled into her crate at night where she has slept since with no problems. Initially we did have the expected puppy nibbling, chasing loose clothing etc but she settled very quickly in our home, we have 3 children, our youngest is 3 and is fantastic with him. As soon as she had her last injection we took her off lead and 90% would return and sit for cheese and biscuits with lots of praise then suddenly in december this went out of the window completely. 
I contacted a gundog trainer in our area to help and train on recall and with a view of possibly doing some work in the field later on. 
However after 7 weeks of training with him from January she still has the same problem, chasing anything or anyone she see's 

We are using a whistle and hand signals, in the home she responds 100%, out in the woods with no distractions, she is responding around 95%, it's like i have a different dog and at the moment i feel really defeated. 

We use in out home a 'not yours' command which was mainly put in place for scattered toys on the floor and food our youngest dropped but also i use this outside for poop, plastic etc, the trainer has said this can be applied for everything, i have tried this outside, it does work for most things just not moving objects!

She is taken out twice a day, we have been training with a long cord and using the whistle, she can be fantastic for a whole week and then maybe at the weekend we will go out and give her free time and it seems as though i have not done any training with her at all because as soon as she see's something fun she's off. 

I have taken out frisbee's, balls, cheese, hot dogs, cheerios (her favourite) and nothing works, at all. 
I could be a block of walking cheese and still ignores me, she has shown time after time she can do it, i feel like she is being deliberately defiant, my children have their moments but nothing like Luna :-[

We are an outdoor family, we like cycling, camping, walking through woods, myself and my husband both run during the week, exercise and variety is not a problem with burning off her energy, in the home the older kids love doing hide and seek with food and toys, she is very good at that and is very well behaved and responds to different commands, i just want her to not chase everything that moves. 

I understand i have a 'baby' until at least 2 and that training is ongoing and never stops, thats not a problem and we have put endless hours in and money, i am fine with periods of regression and behaviour but not to get it at all in the first place is testing my patience to the limit, how long must she stay on a long training cord? We have been training everyday, with it since mid Jan 
The trainer has decided we need a break, he said she is unpredictable when there is any distraction, what do i do with that comment lol?!

I am sorry that waffled on quite a bit, just needed to rant, i am starting to doubt wether i able to get through this period.

Many thanks for reading all of that and for any advice that comes my way,

Rachel


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

How do you feel about ecollars and check cords?

Perhaps, there are pros on this site who can advise specifics. 



There is a guy who I met, paid a pro trainer, introduced his dog to birds and some basic training... But never finished the training 
... Now his dog is chasing and pointing every bird it finds... 
I asked why not go and finish the training. He said there is no point since he doesn't hunt. 

Sorry, gotta do more training, perhaps geared toward your personal needs, but never the less, the same pro trainer holds the answer. 
He enabled the dog, now he must finish and put it under control by showing you what to do.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Welcome to the early "teen years". You don't have a baby anymore but a juvenile that is testing its boundaries. You have a prey-driven Hungarian Pointer, one that a hunter would appreciate but can crate havoc in a family setting.

I'd get the girl a good electronic training collar and you have your trainer show you how to use it correctly. Then the girl wears it EVERY TIME you go out the door. The act of putting on the collar will be a good thing (going out) and most of the time you will never need to use it, BUT you have the option. It is a electronic check cord if used correctly.

You got a good Vizsla. A hard running girl. You could have gotten a gentle well mannered dog but the luck of the draw got you the smart and talented hunter. How you channel that will be tougher but more rewarding once you get past the teen years (up until 3).

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2009/09/introducing-bailey-to-training-collar.html

RBD


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## RubyRoo (Feb 1, 2011)

We had this exact same problem with Ruby around this age. I was so worried about her recall and had a trainer as well. I will say this - at 2 yrs old she is a different dog. I really think it has a lot to do with maturity. Even at the dog park, where there are tons of distractions she comes back and even stays close by our side. At that age, we would be running around like crazy to keep up with her.

Hang in there - keep up with the training and the older she gets the better she will be. I really saw a big spurt in maturity between ages 1 and 2 yrs old.


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## Henry (Oct 2, 2012)

I have a 7 month old strong willed femaile V who WAS a terror off leash. That is until last Saturday. Our trainer came and spent a good 2 hours with Lucy and I training her on an e-collar. I couldn't be a happier Dog Owner, so proud to see her run and sniff and explore but I still have the ability to tap her on the shoulder from 250-300yds away and have her respond to my "come" command. 

We are psyched about attending our first NAVHDA training session on April 6th. I never hunted and have no idea what to expect...but the e-collar has given me the confidence that I can control my dog in the field.
Henry


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## LunaAutumn (Nov 11, 2012)

Thank you all very much, i must admit i had started to get a little down, Luna belongs in our family and we had even planned in a few years to eventually add another vizsla. We waited a long time to get a dog that would fit into our lifestyle and even after months of research before she came to us we didn't realise how much of an adjustment it was going to be 

I have no problem with e-collars, i must admit i thought i would be able to train with whistle, treats and love, how wrong lol!
She is very confident when out with us in terms of meeting other dogs, she has had quite a few corrections and still goes back for more play, much to the annoyance of fellow dog owners, i have had other owners pick up their dogs saying she is too much for them, she is not aggressive just a typical vizsla from what i read 

I think i will look into the e-collar, my trainer has not used one before so maybe i am best searching on here for the correct way as i think it may be the blind leading the blind, i think i will ponder it over the next few days. 

Again many thanks, we very much appreciate it 

Rachel, and Luna


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

There was another recent thread of a similar nature. A bit older dog, but the conversation is the same. 

http://www.vizslaforums.com/index.php/topic,7672.msg58548.html#msg58548

It sounds like you are doing great! Keep in mind that they are not machines, they are living beings with their own minds. Also, she is an adolescent. As you've got kids, the teenage years are the most challenging - the same holds true with dogs. They're angels when they really need you, devils when they think they don't, and pleasant to live with when they get to the age that Mom and Dad really do know something of value.

There will never be a 100% first time every time recall, especially if prey of some kind is involved with a Hunting breed dog.

Keep at it!
Good luck
Ken


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

We went through this too with Miles. We just ordered a shock collar and we are hoping it comes today as we no longer feel comfortable letting him off leash in some areas based on his poor recall in his teenage years.


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## candi30 (Jan 2, 2013)

So our recall right now with our 4 month old is amazing!! She will come running from 200 yards away.
So proud of her!

Are you guys telling me that this might just stop one day? :-\

We always give her a great reward for coming so I hope that this never stops.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

It is an electronic stimulation collar. Shock collar sounds a little Middle Ages. There is a lot of technology and research that goes into these things.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

candi30 said:


> Are you guys telling me that this might just stop one day? :-\


You can bank on it. As she matures her independence will develop and there will be something more interesting. BUT, the good foundation WILL help, so all is not lost! 




datacan said:


> Shock collar sounds a little Middle Ages. There is a lot of technology and research that goes into these things.


Datacan - I thought the same thing when I read it. I just cringe at the term as it perpetuates the myths. I also use "cordless collar" or "cordless checkcord". 
Ken


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## Vida (Dec 26, 2011)

Lunaautumn you sound like a wonderful v owner. I know your dog can test you to the point of nearly giving up,but hang on in there!
Luna is coming up to her most difficult age and it can be one step forward ,two steps back with training :-[ Just like raising a teenage child. :-X
I can give you 100 tips that helped me to get through, but if an ecollar is what you feel you need then make sure you get good advice.
My personal advice would be-
Get her knackered! Hours a day of off leash free running, V's are THE most high energy dogs. If you don't have the time, pay a good dog walker.
Walk with another older,more reliable dog and owner.
I know it's controversial- but feed raw diet,and marrow bones every other day. ( mine seem a lot more steady on a raw diet ,not so manic).
Hide from her when on walks ,so she keeps checking to see where you are.
When on or off the lead I allow my dogs to politely greet and sniff other dogs, but after a quick hello we walk purposefully on by.
If your dog doesn't follow you- don't shout, and never chase her,stay calm and wait for the split second she looks back for you ,it may take a few minutes ,but at that moment call her once and walk on. You may have to through the pain threshold of frustration and embarrassment,but that's life!
Who told you a nine month pup would have perfect recall?   it sounds like you have all the other issues sorted so stick at it you're doing really well!
When things go wrong- Remember your ' get out of jail free 
card' is a big smile and say 'she's just a pup'! 
I could keep going with advice,but you will find your own way I'm sure 8)
Good luck!


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

candi30 said:


> So our recall right now with our 4 month old is amazing!! She will come running from 200 yards away.
> So proud of her!
> 
> Are you guys telling me that this might just stop one day? :-\
> ...


Our pup's recall was excellent until 9 months... would run across the beach or park back to us even in the middle of playing, would come immediately on any trail. We just got an E collar to improve recall again.


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## candi30 (Jan 2, 2013)

Crap!!! I've been so happy about her recall!!!
I'm going to be devastated when she doesn't come one day. 
Maybe I'll get lucky and she won't go through this "phase". 
I don't think I'm that lucky though. :-[

Any tips I can start doing now that might make it easier?


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

WillowyndRanch said:


> candi30 said:
> 
> 
> > Are you guys telling me that this might just stop one day? :-\
> ...


Its a hearing aid for dogs that have momentary hearing loss.


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