# Aggressive puppy? Help!



## newpuppy21 (Oct 13, 2011)

Hi everyone,

We just got our 11 week old puppy 2 days ago. He is actually a Lab-Vizsla hybrid. His father purebred Visla, his mother purebred yellow Lab. The first day he slept a lot, cuddled with us, was sweet as could be. He even slept in our bed, cuddled up with my husband. 

Yesterday I noticed some issues. He acts very dominant with our 6 yr old yellow Lab. She is sweet as can be, non possessive of her food/things. He was humping her, stealing her food, treats right out of her mouth. She did nothing to stop it. I figured I'd leave it up to her. 

Then last night he growled and snapped at me a few times. Usually when I took away something he shouldn't chew on or had to pick him up when he refused to move. He even snapped at my 2 yr old daughter's face so we are very concerned. He does do a playful growl, lots of barking when playing with his toys but this was completely different and really scary.

We made him sleep in a playpen and my husband is very upset about his behavior. I've never seen such a young puppy show signs of aggression. I'm not too familiar with Vizslas, I've always had labs. Is this behavior fixable? I don't want to take any risks with a toddler in the house. My daughter is very gentle, well behaved around dogs so it's not like she's aggravating him. He has not shown these signs with my husband just my daughter and I. Help!


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## sarahaf (Aug 17, 2009)

Yes, the behavior is probably fixable. But to help you feel more confident in your handling of it, to come up w/ a plan to keep your daughter safe, and to assuage your worry, I would hire a behavioral specialist. Worth every penny. There are two places you can go: 1) your local spca (they have classes, may offer individual consultation); 2) (most recommended) look at the following lists of professionals and see if any are close to your area:

http://www.dacvb.org/resources/find/

http://www.animalbehavior.org/ABSAppliedBehavior/caab-directory


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> We just got our 11 week old puppy 2 days ago


Have you contacted your breeder? He or she should help you through this problem.

Good luck. I always thought a Vizsla-Lab might make a great hunting dog. But would it want to be a pointer or a retriever? Two very different skill sets. ;D

RBD


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## newpuppy21 (Oct 13, 2011)

We didn't purchase the dog from a breeder. We actually got him from a college student who purchased him 2 days earlier. She works plus goes to school full time so she immediately realized she couldn't handle a puppy so she put an ad on Craigs List rehoming him. She says he never showed any signs of aggression. The breeder has done 3 litters with these parents and no known issues. That's why I'm kinda at a loss. Wondering if the poor pup is just confused and scared with all the recent changes in his life or if these are early warning signs of an aggressive dog. I can't risk it with my toddler.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Newpuppy21,
Can you and your husband get away for a week with the new pup and your 6 year old lab out into the country? It is sad to hear a college student getting a dog and not having any real way of taking care of it. Hope this wonderful dog does not have to bounce from home to home until it is given up as "hopeless" and sent to a shelter.

The pup has to be confused and scared. How could it be any other than very stressful for a pup. The suggestion of out in the country where you ALL can relax and learn to form your pack. You and your husband as the alphas. Your 6 year old may be a beta dog and be very willing to allow the new dog to take the leadership role. Chloe was 18 months old when Bailey showed up. He was 4 months old. Immediately Chloe deferred to Bailey as the higher ranked dog. They worked it out. 16 years ago, we had a cocker that was 8 years old. We got a second cocker to keep him company. The other dog was dominate and we freaked out about how it was telling our old dog how it was going to be.

Great dog book is "A Dog's Purpose." Good book to read while out in the country.

RDB
http://redbirddog.blogspot.com


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## newpuppy21 (Oct 13, 2011)

Thanks for the help and suggestions. Unfortunately we don't have a way to take a vacation right now. I am a stay at home mom though so he isn't alone much during the day. We have a 2 story house and a fenced backyard so its nothing like the college student situation. Yes I would hate for Gunner to go to yet another home. My only real concern is the aggressive behavior which I'm hoping we can get under control asap. How old does he need to be to get fixed? I do leave the house for a few hour in the afternoons so I'm planning to start crate training him. He was alone with the lab today for about 4.5 hr and I was very pleased to come home and only find one pee in the kitchen, no poop and nothing chewed or out of place even. So there may be hope for this guy yet


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Hi NewPuppy,

I am reading through "My Smart Puppy: Fun, Effective and Easy Training" by Brian Kilcommons and Sarah Wilson. I got the kindle version (which I'm reading on my computer for $3).

They were just describing all the puppy personality types. Here's a quote:

"Assertive/Pushy - Your puppy seems to be constantly in the way and underfoot. There is much grabbing at pant legs, leads (or leashes) and hands. Tug-of-war is his favorite game, though he does not release easily. When you take his collar or pet his head, he mouths you. He chews toys in the center of the room and may freeze (stop chewing and glare at you) if you walk by. Hard jumping, where he leaps against you with straight legs using you as a backboard, hurts and almost (or does) knocks you over. He wants to be out the door first, to grab whatever you're carrying, to have his nose in your plate or, and to sit with you on the couch."

It sound from your description that this may be your dog.

She recommends a bunch of things, but some of them cover multiple chapters. I was going to type them in here, but I recommend you just get the kindle version for 3 dollars and try some of the stuff out. Here's the gist of what she says (without elaborating on the stuff she spends chapters on)
*
What Helps*
- Space games (ch.2-5)
- Paying attention to whose dominant in minor matters (not letting anything slide)
- Develop a light, "oh darling you must be confused" attitude so you can be assertive and clear without being aggressive or confrontational.
- Practice the daily dozens: An anti bite protocol
- Getting to good: It's easy to lock horns with these pups. Don't. Always focus on what you _want_, instead of you what you DON'T want.

*What Hurts*
- "Oh, he's just a puppy, he'll grow out of it" (obviously, you're not thinking this)
- No, "No!" Avoid arguing with these pups. Instead, set your boundaries and create compliance by directing them to what you want. 
- You are teaching him how to treat you right now. Teach him to push you around and he'll be more than happy to oblige you. Teach him to respect your space and your person and some ugly behavioral dragons may never rear their heads.
- Be cautious with dog parks or day care. Just as with people, daily activities become a habits and if he gets to slam, push and harass other dogs daily, what is he learning? Don't leave him where assertive, bullying behaviors are allowed or encouraged. 

**Cesar Millan also has a lot of tips about showing the puppy that you are the dominant one. I think with an aggressive doggy, his books would be really good.


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## ironman_stittsville (Oct 12, 2011)

Hi newpuppy,

My Phoebe has some of the characteristics that Kilcommons describes. I believe that she is an aggressive/pushy puppy. Here are some things that I do every day (multiple times). She is 15 months old now.

- I 'take her space' very often. This means that if we are all standing in the kitchen I will walk 'thru' her. That is to say, I will enter her space (imagine that space as the shadow she would leave directly beneath her) and pass right through. Sometimes this means that I put my foot down in her space and gently push her out of the way with my leg as I'm walking through. I don't make eye contact with her, it's not a mean thing, it's just that I'm an alpha and all the space is mine to use as I wish. This makes her pay attention to me and respect my space.

- I always have her wait for me to go thru the door first. This can take time with a pushy pup but is very important. This is just a patient exercise of 'sit/stay' until you have passed through the door, then the pup can come through.

- I control her food. Either hand feed or put the food down for about 5 mins, if she turns up her nose at it then take it away for an hour or 2. Try again. This is also a gentle way of telling her that you provide her food at your leisure.

- most important is that I'm never angry or frustrated when I'm training/living with her. If I feel angry or frustrated I will discontinue what we are doing, get a Kong w/peanut butter and put her in her crate for an hour or 2. i want for her to have a strong bond with me and see me as alpha. alpha is calm and assertive, always.

my 2 cents, I hope that I don't sound too draconian but I've had good results with my little Phoebe. She doesn't see me as mean but she does (mostly) respect my leadership. 

Don't hesitate to 'boss her around', as long as it's fair.

Regards,
Rh.


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## sarahaf (Aug 17, 2009)

Just a caveat, though, that the most common cause of aggression in dogs (including dog bites) is fear, so it's important not to assume that all dogs who show aggression are dominant or assertive--some may be anxious.

As many know, we got a professional consult for Rosie's behavior issues. Her temperament was assessed to be fearful, and her aggressive behavior is how she gets the thing she is fearful of to back off (this isn't conscious, of course, but instinctual, as in fight-or-flight). And actually, Rosie was the least jumpy-nippy of the puppies in her litter, and seemed the most low key. In retrospect, this may be because she was more timid. We're working with Rosie using a desensitization approach. 

So I always recommend a professional consult for any behavior in the aggressive realm other than puppy nipping or alarm (doorbell) barking (both of which all of our dogs will do at some stage).


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## Adelle25 (Sep 4, 2011)

Hello 

If I'm honest he sounds just like my pup Copper ( hope this puts u at ease) at 11/12 weeks they are testing the boundaries and with him being a male wants to be alpha dog. 

Some people may not agree with how i ensured Copper knew i was alpha but this is what i done:-

If we were playing and he started to bite and get snappy or try "Hump me" i would tell him to "be gentle" if he continued i would hold onto the side of his neck (the loose skin) and lay him down, get over him and growl (just like his mother would do) a few times he would try and go for me but i just held him there.

I also have a water pestle, so if he jumps on the sofa (which he is not aloud on) or jumps up etc i would give him a squirt! the look on his face was priceless (what the ****!!??, where did that come from!!)

I agree also with what ironman has said too about food control and walking through the door first. 

NEVER SHOUT OR HIT HIM. 

Copper now knows that when i say "be gentle" he needs to ease off and he looks all concerned and will kiss me. 

Your other dog must just be very submissive. U need to keep taking toys and food from him for him to learn u r boss if he goes for you get over him and growl. 

I hope this helps, might be worth a shot. Not going to lie puppy's are playful and do get carried away with playing. 

Also u all need to be giving him commands from the same page, having the same rules etc.

If his behaviour gets worse and nothing works seek professional help.


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

Letting him in your bed is absolutely sending him the wrong message. I'm sure he is scared and confused. There is much you need to learn. I'm not sure how you would want to proceed with such a Young child in the house. This will take allot of time and energy from both of you. It will be like having 2 2 year olds in the house. The commitment is a serious one and your concern for your daughter should be taken very seriously. This may not have been a wise addition to your family at this point in time. You can do it if your committed. If you decide to move forward with the dog get a crate, keep your daughter away from the dog and read ALLOT. A daily session with an experienced trainer would also help. I wish you well.


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## newpuppy21 (Oct 13, 2011)

Hey I just wanted to come back with an update. Gunner is now 14 weeks old and doing really well. Believe it or not, the snapping and growling was completely a one time thing. I was very concerned the few days following that and ready to tackle the issue head on. He has not growled since, snapped or shown any other signs of aggression. I'm still keeping a close eye on him of course but I'm hoping it was due to him being scared/confused and not signs of an aggressive personality. We go to his 2nd puppy training class today. We are still having some issues with potty training and chewing. He and the older dog seem to have found their groove together. She still let's him get away with a lot but she will snap back now when she's had enough, I've even caught her sitting on his head and humping him, haha. I am still debating on crate training. The people from his training class recommended against it because our other dog isn't and they didn't think it was right to separate them especially since they play together so much during the day. They think once he gets better at the "leave it" command he will stop getting into things while I'm gone or upstairs. What do you guys think? Also he was 18.5 lb at his 13 week checkup, does that sound normal?


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## V-Proxy (Jan 26, 2011)

Linescreamer said:


> Letting him in your bed is absolutely sending him the wrong message.


Why is letting your dog on the bed sending the wrong message? Sorry if this is a super noob question. I have just seen and heard of many dogs being allowed on the bed - not that this makes it right, just that I am confused by this comment. Thanks!


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

Ruby quite recently went through a growling/snapping phase so she's not allowed on the sofa or the bed at all now. In the evenings she gets on her bean bag whilst we are on the sofa. She's a different girl now, seems to have accepted that she's not "Alpha" and no growling or snappy behaviour any more


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

V-Proxy said:


> Linescreamer said:
> 
> 
> > Letting him in your bed is absolutely sending him the wrong message.
> ...


It's not. Some people have a bee in their bonnett about letting dogs sleep on beds. I never allowed it until I got my V. Now, if they want to they can sleep on the bed with me. If they don't they have a designated lounge or the crate. Sometimes when it's a warm night, they will choose to sleep on their own, but mostly snuggle bug Astro likes to be in bed with me. In winter.... under the covers  

I do not have any agression issues nor are they unclear about who makes the rules and what those rules are. They are happy, obedient and mentally engaged dogs. They are not aggressive to either human or dog. Neither are they fearful of human or dog. I can remove food or toys. I can ask them to go or do pretty much anything I want without issue. They trust me. None of these behaviours have been affected by sleeping on my bed. Some nights I have two V's and my pointer and me all in bed. those nights, I'm in heaven!!!!

I wouldn't have it any other way.


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

V-Proxy said:


> Linescreamer said:
> 
> 
> > Letting him in your bed is absolutely sending him the wrong message.
> ...


Are kidding me? You guys must have no experience with children or training dogs. They are pack animals and as the leader of the pack you need to differentiate yourself as such. A dog that sleeps in the bed with it's owner thinks he/she is on the same level and therefore equal and has the right to all things the owner has. So why should they obey the command of another pack member??? Answer -> they don't, and that is in part why some people have behavior issues with their dogs. All professional dog trainers recommend crate training and absolutely no sleeping with your dog. Before you guys start in with MY trainer said it's OK; understand that these pet store and puppy class trainers for the most part are NOT professionals.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> Before you guys start in with MY trainer said it's OK; understand that these pet store and puppy class trainers for the most part are NOT professionals.


+1

Pet Store classes for a Vizsla? Really? That's like sending your child to an intercity slum public school (I know I'll get slammed for that one). You have gotten an exceptionally smart and driven dog in your Vizsla. Find the professionals in your area to help train your* best friend.*

My .02.

RBD


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Linescreamer said:


> V-Proxy said:
> 
> 
> > Linescreamer said:
> ...




I call bullshit!  (Don't take offence, it's a very Aussie thing to say and isn't meant to be disrespectful) 

My dogs are very obedient dogs with a clear understanding of who the pack leader is, They sleep on or sometimes in my bed at their choice. They listen to me and are very much in tune with how things work. You can call it how you like, But I am living proof that a dog sleeping with you is not detrimental to the relationship. 

Your comment about a pack leader not allowing the lower members in the bed is the total antithesis of what I have experienced. A benevolent pack leader is the one who is respected the most. The one who controls, but shares the resources! 

But that's OK Linescreamer, I'm not suggesting that your method is wrong, just suggesting that mine isn't. Keep an open mind.......


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

^we're with ya Ozkar.
We didn't let her in for a few months until she started to understand and follow the rules. 

I see where linescreemer and redbirddog are coming from, but it just isn't the case for us.

One of the benefits of a working dog is that they truly 'want' to work for their leader and be part of the family.
When they know they have no need to lead, because their boss has it under control, they fall in place just fine.

The difference is, if you tolerate a dog that growls at you, and let that dog in your bed, you're probably adding fuel to the fire by putting yourself at the same pack level.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Aggressive dominant behavior starts at puppyhood. Some dogs are born to lead. Easy to spot and very difficult to stop. 
Newpuppy 21 if your original post is accurate you made a mistake by adopting him. 

If you choose (not wise) to keep him you must really set clear boundaries. 
1. Don't allow puppy in your sleeping quarters at all.
2. Get a crate and place it in another room. 
3. Never allow puppy to take anything away from older dog or even approach your child.

4. Always take toy away if it even thinks of growling. Always play with only one toy at a time. Two or more toys create distraction.
5. Always feed older dog first while puppy stays away and respects your authority.

This puppy WILL grow, it is not his fault and my opinion may sound harsh.
And please do not hit or otherwise loose your temper if it challenges you or the older dog in the future - it's a sign of weakness. 
----------------
And to all those who think sleeping with the dog is OK... It really is OK...As long as the dog perceives you as the the one who sets the pecking order. *I would not allow it on the bed or sofa, but our V's crate is in our bedroom. :-[*


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## newpuppy21 (Oct 13, 2011)

@datacan:

I wrote that post a few days after we got the puppy when he was 11 weeks. The aggressive behavior I described happened the 2nd night we had him. I basically think he was scared/confused about being in his 2nd home in less than a week. 

Gunner is now 16.5 weeks and has not snapped, growled or snarled at any member of our family (or anyone else) since that night. He does still try to steal the older dog's treats and food but we never allow him to do that since we realized the older dog won't stop him. He is still a little bit growly when playing with the older dog but she gets rough too and they both seem to be having fun, tails wagging, they take turns pinning each other and being on top. He also barks quite a bit when playing with his toys but both his trainer and his vet suggested this will calm down when he's fixed. 

He shows no possessive behavior towards his toys or food and like I said only ever growls when playing with the other dog. When playing with other puppies in his class he is the submissive one, tail between his legs, very cautious. He seems to be doing quite well now. I no longer think he has an aggressive personality. We of course keep a very close eye on him with our daughter but he has been fine with her too except for the occasional jumping up on her while excited.

He does still sleep in bed with us. I wasn't trying to start a debate on that, I know we all have strong opinions about it. He is only allowed upstairs or in our room at bedtime. I wouldn't feel right crating him during the day and then again at night.

Are there any warning signs I should still be watching out for regarding his behavior? He seems very friendly with any strangers and other dogs we meet as well.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

He sounds like he has adjusted well, I am really pleased for you. Knowing so many V's I am always very surprised to hear that someone has received aggression from them. They are the most warm and friendly dogs to both Human and K9 alike. I honestly have never met an aggressive one here in Australia. A guy I know treats his like a true hunting dog and it is the lovliest little bitch despite her life. (Not how I would treat a V, I think they need to part of the pack)

Sometimes people can misconstrue the way they play as aggression. The growling, snarling and snapping, the kangaroo boxing!  Once you realise it's there play method, it's such fun to watch. 

Good luck with pup, I hope things continue in a positive direction for you all. 

As an aside..... Astro has just learnt hide and seek. He loves it and is very, very, very good at it. Zsa Zsa doesn't get a look in. We have been playing it each morning and night and so far, Astro has found it first every time. He's also way better with the bird stalking too.... a more patient boy!


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

Ozkar said:


> A benevolent pack leader is the one who is respected the most. The one who controls, but shares the resources!
> 
> But that's OK Linescreamer, I'm not suggesting that your method is wrong, just suggesting that mine isn't. Keep an open mind.......


OK. I'll buy that. Understand that we are talking about puppy training here and providing advise. We are not talking about the nuances of various relationships between seasoned dog trainers and their dogs. Now show me a benevolent leader who controls and shares the resources and the dog that follows suit. I'm sure that pair is few and far between.  Now I'm wondering if you have children. :


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Linescreamer said:


> Ozkar said:
> 
> 
> > A benevolent pack leader is the one who is respected the most. The one who controls, but shares the resources!
> ...


  I have three children of my own, all grown up now and was lucky enough to raise to other step sons from a later marriage until they also left the nest. Plus, I have a 2 and a 4 year old Grandson. So, yeah.... I've got the odd kid hanging around. But, like dogs, I love them too for the most part  

My dogs are really all still puppies. Zsa Zsa the rescued German Short Haired Pointer is now 18 months old and i got her when she was 12 months, Ozkar I have had from a pup and he is now 12 months old and Astro I got as a & month old neutered pup and he is now 9 months old. Prior to that, I had a run of 5 Black English Cocker Spaniels, the ones people say are dumb. I found them to be one of the smartest breeds I have had. Prior to that, it was Australian Blue Heeler Cattle dogs, Australian Kelpie Sheep dogs, Border Collies and one mut a Half Corgi, Half labrador who was just a cracking dog. The only one I ever had an aggression issue with was one of the Heelers who bit through my top lip......................... but I was two years old at the time and probably deserved it   

I can see your points, However I am of the opinion, that it's who controls the bed space that is dominant, no the one who has the bed space. That is to say, that I allow my puppies to sleep with me, but, I determine who sleeps where. Not them. This I find is enough of a defining line while still maintaining the benefits of being a benevolent leader. 

As you say, I have had a little experience with animals and as such am able to forge strong ties with my housemates. However, I was taught all this stuff from an old Australian bushman. My grandfather. He was a drover, a shearer and eventually had his own farm. He taught me many things, one of which was the benefits of benevolence in relationships with everything which lives, not just people. He had a way with animals that was a little surreal. I remember as a young boy, sitting on the old Massey Ferguson tractor while pop was underneath it dropping the oil and a 6 foot king brown snake slithered up within a foot of his face. I was shitting my little shorts. Pop without batting an eyelid in the calmest voice I have heard started talking to the snake. He said and I qoute "Go one ya silly ******* and bugger off will ya" ( A very Aussie thing to say) The snake sort of lifted it's head as if to listen to pop and then slowly, put it back down on the ground and slowly slithered off into the shade. This in itself is bizzarre and unusual behaviour from a King Brown, they are aggressive and tend to attack and chase you, not the other way around. They are also Highly venomous and would kill a brown dog at 50 yards. 

Hence, I have adopted similar methodology with my dogs that my pop taught me. It works for me and I wouldn't want it any other way. I can't tell you how wonderful it is to wake up mid winter with the soft coat of a Vizsla against your neck. Those nights when I have all three of them and it's cold outside are my favourites of all. It disappoints me to know you will experience such joy


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Very impressive  There is a type of energy that flows among all living things. Not many people have that sense and calm energy your grandfather had.
My grandfather's brother was hunting with 3 Vizsla type dogs he barely taught anything and just befriending them was enough. The hunt consisted in letting the dogs do what came natural. I just wish I would have paid any attention to him. I thought he was nuts. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lztKW16oPqE&feature=related 

The point of this post, I hope is to help people who don't posses that extra sense. As such I agree with Linescreamer's comments and suggestions.
Most of us need the benefits of crate training our dogs, setting clear rules that involve not letting the dog or dogs on elevated spaces we humans use.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

datacan said:


> Very impressive  There is a type of energy that flows among all living things. Not many people have that sense and calm energy your grandfather had.
> My grandfather's brother was hunting with 3 Vizsla type dogs he barely taught anything and just befriending them was enough. The hunt consisted in letting the dogs do what came natural. I just wish I would have paid any attention to him. I thought he was nuts.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lztKW16oPqE&feature=related
> 
> ...


My dogs are allowed on the lounge whenever they want, but they must immediately vacate it to make room for me. Which they do. They are not allowed to hawk around the dining table, nor to bench surf. Astro had this habit when he arrived here, but has slowly lost the desire to do it through some encouragement and the odd discouragement. But he knows now. Zsa Zsa has always been ever so polite and is no issue with house boundaries, but Ozkar had to have very clearly defined ones. He's a strong personality and needs to be kept in check.  But, once again, he knows the rules and doesn't touch the benches, even with food left on them. 

Once again, I think it's about being inclusive, while being the one who controls the resources, you are also not just the one who has the resources.


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