# Freeze dried Raw



## Kona (Feb 18, 2011)

Anyone tried K9 natural freeze dried raw food? We had to make a switch from kibble (Evo) on very short notice, and didn't have time to research. We are only 2 days in and it seems ok so far, but much too early to tell. Wondering if anyone had any thoughts?


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## Looney (Sep 28, 2011)

Do you plan on eventually making/preparing your own fresh raw food?
It a much cheaper route and you can control what you pup eats at that point.


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## SteelCityDozer (Aug 25, 2011)

Tried natural instinct freeze dried raw as treats. Worked well for that. I like primal brand raw as far as prepackaged but I must say its mighty expensive if that's all you feed. But an excellent product if you're in a bind or using for supplemental feeding IMO.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

I have neighbors who raw feed their dogs and even a cat. They make their own food and even bought a small freezer for the dogs. They have so much even Sam is fed by them (without my knowledge). 
I just found out last week, because Sam (11 months) refused to even touch his kibble. ???

Not sure what to make of this? I don't really like the idea.
They told me Sam was fed all week a little because they really believe that raw is the way. :-[ Even suggested to mix some raw meat with his kibble so that his body gets used to it.


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## Looney (Sep 28, 2011)

I read it's either RAW or KIBBLE not both!!!! they digest at different speeds and upsets/confuses the dogs tract.

i feed my cat raw he loves it but he doesn't get kibble anymore....


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## Vespasia (Apr 19, 2010)

Hey Datacan,

I am a raw feeder, but I don't think it's appropriate for your neighbours to be giving Sam raw food without your knowledge. Dogs need to adjust to raw food (the stomach eneyzmes needed to process raw food are different than those needed for kibble), so on top of making your dog more finicky, they are disrupting his entire digestive system. 

Kona, I have tried the K9 dried freezed stuff as well and it's pretty good, but as other posters have indicated, it can be very expensive. I think it's a great idea to start with this until you get comfortable with making the food yourself--maybe give yourself a few weeks to do your research and make sure you are comfortable.

I am assuming you are located in the GTA for some reason (because the K9 brand that I am familiar with is done out of Mississauga). If that's the case, there is a GREAT place for you to get your supplies once you are ready to make your own...here is the website:

http://www.heronviewrawandnatural.com/

I bought a freezer that will hold a month supply all at once as it takes about 40 minutes for me to drive there each way and they don't have the most convienant hours....but for any raw feeder in the GTA, this is the place to go!


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

I see, I went to Costco and bought some lean ground beef and wanted to make some meatballs for Sam looks like he prefers to eat the ground meat out of my hand. This morning his poop was much firmer, I think it may have to do with the meat? Color was not brown but light almost yellow white.

I agree it was not good for my neighbors to feed my dog. I know they mean well and had dogs all their life. I had a German Shepherd and they never bothered with us. Now that I have a V. it's like I became somewhat of a celebrity. Kids on the street want to walk Sammy (baby boy) in the park - for free ;D
I don't think it's good if I fight with them over Sammy's diet. Letting Sam decide may be a better choice, IMO. 

How balanced is raw, just meat sounds like a little too raw, may be OK for a cat but dogs?

Thanks.


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## Looney (Sep 28, 2011)

You have to feed either RAW or KIBBLE. Make the choice and go with it.
Cat's, dogs, ferrets......raw raw raw

just get the %'s of bone to meat to organs right. 
I read that you should pick ONE source of protein and stick with it for the first month or so then changet he source for variety?
I'm starting on chicken.
My kitten eats nothing but chicken thighs w/bone ground up with the egg yolks and supplements.....he doens't agree with the Heart so i use the Taurine instead for now while he's still little.
He's 6 months today and 7.5lbs!!!


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

nice Kittie, going to be big, I guess.
We have 5 year old Main **** mix. Sadly he is over weight 18.4 lbs this morning. He eats kibble but he gets wet cat food as well. It's the taurine I need for him. But I think taurine in meat ???


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

We feed both our cats a raw diet because my maine **** mix got a horrible urinary tract infection when my nana started feeding him kibble (long story - they had to watch him for a few months due to housing issues). He gained a TON of weight on the kibble, too. They eat "Rad Cat" raw food now, which has all the nutrients they need & he is at his ideal weight again (12-13lbs).

http://www.radfood.com/

Riley is on Taste of the Wild, but we would like to switch her to raw eventually. I want to make sure her immune system is strong enough first.


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## Looney (Sep 28, 2011)

Heinz (our kitten) is a Mainecoon-mix too!!! no idea what his ideal weight will be..depends on how much "cooncat" is in him...

he's big now!!!! the maincoons can grow up to 3 yrs before they reach their adult size.

I'm going to let Laszlo (puppy) get used to the new home in florida for a week or so then i'm going to start the raw food for him also. the Meat grinder i got does wonders on bones! thank god! the cat won't crunch the bones...(yet?)

seperate pic thread for Maincoon-mixs please!!!!!!!!!!


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

At what age is it OK to go raw? I think the immune system can take it after 8 months.

Maine ***** love, water more than other breeds so kibble should not be a problem. The only problem is the over concentrated food which makes them fat.
Not a good thing. I tried to slim him but I will not starve him or he will end up with liver problems.
I will look into raw for the cat, for sure. 
As far as Sam, the Vizsla, he clearly likes lean ground beef over any kibble! So much for that.

I just have to find a formula that works. I like to portion some veggies for him as well. He likes carrots most, but will eat even spinach  

*sorry for grammar and misspellings - work and post at the same time/


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## Looney (Sep 28, 2011)

you can feed raw from day one....if in the wild they'd be wheened on raw food.

i've been feeding Heinz (kitten) raw since the week after we got him.....he's 6 months TODAY!!!!!

Lots of kennels i found (all types of dogs) feed their pups raw.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

datacan said:


> Maine ***** love, water more than other breeds so kibble should not be a problem. The only problem is the over concentrated food which makes them fat.
> Not a good thing. I tried to slim him but I will not starve him or he will end up with liver problems.


Our maine **** rarely drinks water and we've even tried a special water fountain to tempt him. The kibble has added salt to get them to drink more water, but that doesn't work with our cat. :-\


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## Looney (Sep 28, 2011)

the recipe i use has 2 cups of water added to it so he doesn't drink much extra water thats for sure. I change his glass and add a few cubes everyother day just in case he drinks when i'm not there....

i've gotten good at the recipe i think..


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## Looney (Sep 28, 2011)

i think once i get used to it the DOG RAW will be much less "involved" than the cat raw....no grinding bones and such.
The mess is my concern...my wife is SO against me feeding them raw....not health wise she just gets grossed out.
I'm thinking a big roll of butcher paper lay it down toss it out start again...no mess? i'm hoping.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Salt is a NONO but they do add it to cat food. Our cat asks for fresh water. He will not be quiet until he gets it. Somehow he likes reverse-osmosis filtered water more than just tap water ???. Dog doesn't care much. 

I have been looking for some recipes. Definitely the cat will go raw or he will die fat and early.

Thanks.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

Looney said:


> The mess is my concern...my wife is SO against me feeding them raw....not health wise she just gets grossed out.
> I'm thinking a big roll of butcher paper lay it down toss it out start again...no mess? i'm hoping.


Stainless steel bowls are your best bet for raw food. They are easier to keep clean and honestly when our cats eat the raw food they lick every bit of it up so their bowls are completely clean afterward.


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## Looney (Sep 28, 2011)

Raw Cat Food Diet Recipe Made WITH Real Bones 

2 kg [4.4 pounds] raw muscle meat with bones (chicken thighs and drumsticks or, better, a whole carcass of rabbit or chicken amounting to 2 kg; if you don't use a whole carcass, opt for dark meat like thighs and drumsticks from chicken or turkey and remove/don't use 20 to 25 percent of the bone; if using whole rabbit, which has a higher bone-to-meat ratio than chicken, dilute the extra bone by adding another 20 to 25 percent of plain muscle meat and skin and fat from rabbit, chicken, or turkey)

400 grams [14 oz] raw heart (best not to use use beef heart; if no heart is available, substitute with 4000 mg Taurine)

200 grams [7 oz] raw liver (don't use beef liver; if you can't find appropriate liver, you can substitute 40,000 IU of Vitamin A and 1600 IU of Vitamin D--but try to use real liver rather than substitutes)

NOTE: If you cannot find the heart or liver and decide to substitute with the Taurine/Vitamin A and D, then remember to REPLACE the missing amount of organ meat with the equivalent amount of muscle meat. In other words, if you cannot find heart, you add another 400 grams of the meat/bones. If you can't find the liver, add another 200 grams of meat/bone.

16 oz [2 cups] water

4 raw egg yolks (use eggs from free-range, antibiotic-free chickens if you can)***

4 capsules raw glandular supplement, such as, for example, multigland supplement by Immoplex.

4000 mg salmon oil (see note at bottom of recipe*)

800 IU Vitamin E ("dry E" works well)

200 mg Vitamin B-50 complex (i.e., four capsules of B-50)

1.5 tsp. Lite salt (with iodine) 

(optional: 4 tsp. psyllium husk powder (8 tsp. if using whole psyllium husks; see note at bottom of recipe**)

NOTE: If you will not be using the food immediately and freezing for more than a week or two, toss in 4000 mg of additional Taurine to make up for what may get lost during storage. It is also not a bad idea to sprinkle extra Taurine from a capsule on the food as you're serving it two or three times a week, just to be certain your cat is getting plenty of this critical amino acid.

1. Remove about half of the skin from the muscle meat. Chunk up (i.e., cut) as much of the muscle meat (minus most of the skin if using chicken or turkey, but leave skin on if using rabbit) as you can stand into bite-sized (nickel-sized, approximately) pieces. Save the chunked meat for later. Do not grind it.

2. Grind the raw liver, any skin, raw meaty bones, and raw heart. Once ground, stir this meat/bone mixture well and return to refrigerator.

3. Fill a bowl with 2 cups of water and whisk everything (non-meat) except the psyllium. If you had to replace liver with Vitamin A/D or replace heart with Taurine, add the substitutes now. Add psyllium at the end -- if you're using it -- and mix well. Finally, put the three mixtures together--the "supplement slurry" that you have just mixed, the ground up meat/bone/organs, and the chunks of meat that you cut up by hand. Portion into containers and freeze.

Don't overfill the containers. The food expands when frozen and you don't want lids popping off. Thaw as you go. The food shouldn't be left thawed in the refrigerator more than 48 hours before serving. To serve, portion into a 'zipper baggie' and warm under hot water in the sink. NEVER microwave the food. Cats like their food at something approximating "mouse body temperature."

*Every two or three days, I suggest sprinkling a few drops of fresh salmon oil from a newly-opened capsule on to the cats' food. The Essential Fatty Acids in salmon oil are extremely fragile, and since we do not know exactly how much gets lost during freezing, I think it's wise to use a bit of fresh salmon oil directly on the food a few times a week. Most cats love the flavor.

**Not all cats require additional fiber (psyllium) in their diet. If your cat has been eating low-quality commercial food for several years, especially dry food, she may have lost bowel elasticity and may benefit from the extra fiber. As a general rule, I recommend using psyllium when an adult cat first gets raw food. I rarely add much psyllium to my adult cats' diet. Bear in mind that some cats seem to get constipated without additional fiber, whereas other cats seem to get constipated if they get too much fiber. Each cat is unique, and you'll have to judge what works best for your cat.

***If you don't want to waste the egg whites and don't feel like making an angel food cake, poach them, grind them, and throw them in with the food. A nice phosphorus-free source of protein.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

Looney, what does this cost you per meal for the cat? Rad Cat is very pricey, so I've been looking into making the food myself.


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## Looney (Sep 28, 2011)

well i'm kinda lazy so i just buy a giant pack of thighs at wally mart or the buther or the publix where ever 'm at. 99cents per pound
i use free range eggs not so cheap 
the supplements may be steep but you only need them a little at a time.
he eats alot as he's a growing kitten....i feed him in the morning and the 5oclock hour. he goes thru this recipe about once a month or 3 weeks depending....
You've never seen a cat do a happy dance like this nut!!!
He heres the water running in the sink, he knows the countdown is on baby!!! he purrs headbutts and then butt bumps you until he gets it..then it's gone!!!!!! quick!!!!
i think it's cheap if you break it down but even if it weren't i'd do it. i had a 22 yr old black cat who ate kibble and cooked food for his last 2 years.....if only i'd have known this back then i'd still have my little man....
If it can do all that and our dogs can live up to 14 yrs i can only imagine how long this can prolong their lives. It's a pain but they are family members and i wouldn't feed them mcdonalds 2 times a day for life!!!! or worse...


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## Looney (Sep 28, 2011)

the grinder was under 200 on amazon...worth it..get the one with the hood scoop for inducted air flow!!!! takes longer to clean up than to make the food at this point.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Oh, my thank you Looney. I feel confident raw is right way forward, I have tried the commercial cat foods already. 
Royal Canin (maine **** formula) was his downfall. 
At 5 years old "Butterfly" is so fat he cannot lick his bum anymore - shameful for a cat and I feel guilty.


Thanks. 
I will try the butcher, Vespasia, thanks for the link. They have beef heart as well. I feed that to the Discus fish.


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## Kona (Feb 18, 2011)

I am located in California and got the freeze dried raw at Pet Food Express, I think it's a California chain. Our V hadn't been thriving on his kibble (Evo), and when he went in for an unrelated blood test, they said his white blood cell count was high, and based on other symptoms we hadn't put together before (licking paws, dull coat, dandruff)... We figured it might be a food allergy. I've heard raw is a great way to pin point food allergies.... But preparing our own raw is not something we want to do for a few reasons. Glad to know there is generally a good reaction to the freeze dried raw. For those of you that don't know, it just needs to be mixed with warm water. Although the serving size seems mighty small...I'll report out on if he seems to be thriving onthe new food.

One 32 pound box is supposed to last 2 months. We will take him in for another blood test to see if his allergies have gone away. I'm thinking we keep him on the freeze dried raw for a while (year?) and then see if we want to transition backto kibble 
or go full raw.

Thank!


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