# Snarling & Growling over treats and food



## KKvizslamom (Jun 25, 2012)

Our puppy is almost 5 months old. We originally had problems with giving him rawhide bones and not being able to take them away. He would start growling and snarling at us and then would snap and bite when we took control over him. And by "taking control" I mean I would grab his collar and say "NO" and put him in his kennel or lay him on his side until he stopped growling. This morning when I fed him I started petting him and putting my hands in his food dish to ensure he wasn’t doing this over his food and it was only over treats (kong with pb, pigs ears, rawhides, bones of all types). He was fine the first time I did it. I gave him a minute and started to do it again and he started growling and snarling and showing his teeth. I immediately put him down in a submissive position until he stopped and looked away. I let him up and hand fed him the remaining portion of his food. The food growling just started. It was mostly just over long lasting treats. Are we not feeding him enough? Does anyone have suggestions on how to correct this behavior?


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## SteelCityDozer (Aug 25, 2011)

You're going to get a lot of different responses but here's my opinion. Taking these away to prove to yourself and the dog that you can, can encourage resource guarding especially in a mor dominant dog. This has been my experience. However you should be able to touch these things without reaction in case you NEED to remove it at some point. Personally I would hold any treat you give him and hand feed him until he learns to relax during these things. Then after you let him "take it" periodically walk by him without doing anything. Maybe drop other treats in the process. So he learns that every time you come by is not a threat to his resources. Eventually pet him while he has these things and touch the treat/food/toy. We routinely need to reinforce this with Dozer and I think it's bec we did the take away thing with him when he was little. Penny in the other hand will come find you to lay down and gnaw away right next to or on you.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

It's normal, they are dogs and that's how they communicate. 
There are different ways to teach them. Main point is not to reward any behavior that you don't like. 

I never corrected my dogs harshly because it was not necessary. I did use a wire crate to domesticate my dogs, though. The privilege of being free had to be earned (the fact that your dog is snarling at you is because he earned too much freedom early on)

1. There was no reason to snarl at me or any member of the family because Sam was inside the crate. 
2. Next he was on a leash tied to my waist.
3. Later he earned the right to a daybed on a leash tied to a post.
4. Next he was on a daybed off leash but was not allowed to run around.
5. Last he earned the right to roam freely inside the house and make his own decisions.... it's a work in progress (17month old).

THE END

PS ... training never ends but following these steps got us a dog that doesn't need to be neutered because of territorial behaviors like marking inappropriate places (peeing on people, peeing inside the house on plants or humping out of control, growing, snapping, barking, chasing bicycles, chasing kids...)
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## KKvizslamom (Jun 25, 2012)

I think we need to take away his couch privileges but my fiance feels differently. We already took away him sleeping in our bed. I think the couch should be earned. If he didn't behaving how we would like him to then he shouldn't be able to snuggle with us on the couch. But it's really hard to say no to that cute little puppy face. Does allowing him to be on the couch add fuel to the fire?


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

You should search the forum for the "nothing in life is free" method. It has been described a few times by several people on here, and was reccommended to us by a behaviorist to help with all sorts of behavioral problems, including resource guarding. It is similar to what datacan describes below. 

I would reccomend, as part of this approach, to start ONLY feeding your puppy by hand. He shouldn't get any food out of a bowl or at his leisure. It should all come from you, when you decide he has earned it. We have been doing this for about 9 months now, and even if we put food in our Vizsla's bowl or give him a bone, he will not even touch them until we say "it's okay", and he freely gives them up to us as well. 

Also, careful punishing him harshly, because you may reinforce his guarding instincts- he'll learn that when you take stuff away from him, bad things happen! This may, in his doggie-mind, give him even more reason to get upset when you come to take away his goodies. At least, that is one theory


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

I am going to second moving strictly to hand feeding for a while. He needs to know that food comes directly from you. I would also recommend that you walk through all doors before him. Before giving him water, praise anything he desires, I would make him sit, go into a down or do some other trick he knows. He should be working for everything. 

The couch is tricky as your fiance wants him on there with you. I personally, don't think the couch is that big of a deal, as long as he doesn't jump up on it on his own accord, but gets permission first. 

When you do decide to reintroduce the food bowl, I've heard that first walking by and just dropping a treat in the bowl gets the dog associating you walking by while he's eating with treats. You then, pause and drop the treat, then get lower and drop the treat, continuing in small steps until you are putting your hand in the bowl and putting in a treat, then eventually taking the bowl away and putting it back with the treat in. You want him to be excited when you are coming over as he thinks something good is happening. Eventually, he will just let you take the bowl, treat or no treat.

A similar approach with the kongs/rawhides may work better than the taking control approach. Also telling him what "to do" instead of what not to do. instead of just allow you to grab his treats, maybe you should tell him to sit, drop it, crate or couch. Get him to do something he is good at and is incompatible with chewing on the bone. Reward him for doing the positive behavior and simply pick up his bone.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

although Ruby has never growled when I've taken food/treats away I started by making her sit, put her food bowl on the floor and not letting her have it till given the "take" command. If she moved before the command the bowl was lifted and put away for 5 mins,,,she soon got the message that it was *my food* that i was sharing with her


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## VictoriaW (Mar 16, 2011)

We have not had this issue with Gracie -- no guarding with us or the kids whatsoever -- but it seems that when these problems arise people often recommend this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Mine-Practical-Guide-Resource-Guarding/dp/0970562942

Someone please correct me if this is not the right title....


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## KKvizslamom (Jun 25, 2012)

Alpine is my puppies name by the way  
Alpine will sit and stay before I feed him and he'll wait for me to say "okay" then he'll eat. I make it a point to go through doors before him and I've read about the "nothing in life is free" theory and I make him do something every time before I give him anything. I'll start feeding him by hand now and see if that helps with guarding part. I like the treat in the dish approach and I'll start to try that once I've noticed him advancing with hand feeding. Tonight I tried to give the kong treat, give a cookie and take the kong treat. I tried to pet him with the kong treat and he started snarling. Then he bit me and drew blood. Perhaps it's my yelling when he starts growling. I'm trying hard to be calm but ....it's hard. So it's probably my fault he's angry since I taught him to get angry with my anger. I guess at the moment I'm thinking I need to be louder to flush out his growling and intimidate him. I need training.


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## veifera (Apr 25, 2012)

My breeder told me any puppy wouldn't want to share anything if it's always taken away. 

Her advice was to take things from the puppy when very young but give them right back, so the dog is always happy to share. Toys, bones, everything, as a kind of play training, and to make it fun. 

I have done that and my puppy will put even the most deliciously disgusting stuff into my hand because she knows that I very rarely take fun or pleasure things away. 

I even treated and rewarded her for giving me a dead mouse instead of yelling "No" or punishing her for not wanting to part with something she really likes.


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## finch (Sep 19, 2011)

KKvizslamom said:


> So it's probably my fault he's angry since I taught him to get angry with my anger. I guess at the moment I'm thinking I need to be louder to flush out his growling and intimidate him. I need training.


While I don't know if this is the reason for the growling, it is important that you recognize that you being louder can fuel his anger. You need to remain a calm, assertive leader, so responding by yelling doesn't show him that you are in control. Trying to intimidate him is not the right approach - you want a dog that respects you, not fears you. Yelling, taking food away and not giving it back, using force by grabbing his collar are all reasons why he would not learn to respect you and might be mimicking the aggressive behavior. This is not necessary for a V. They are soft dogs and assertive verbal commands should be enough.

I also learned from our trainer the technique of adding bonus treats or meat to the dog's food as they are eating so that they don't see you only as a someone who takes their food away. As Veifera suggests, get into the habit of taking away and giving back lots of things to your dog when he is chewing something he is supposed to have. Soon he will learn that 95% of the time when you take something away, he will get it back, so he won't mind giving it up to you. Then when you really need to take something away for a safety or other reason, he won't put up a fight. My pup only quietly growled one time, around 4-5 months, the first time I gave her a marrow bone and tried to touch it. I then approached her with a handful of other treats... she dropped the bone, I took it, then gave her the other treats, then gave her the bone back after a minute. She never growled again and I have taken her bone away (and given it back) a thousand times now, and she often chews them right on my lap now.

Good luck!


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

KKvizslamom said:


> I think we need to take away his couch privileges but my fiance feels differently. We already took away him sleeping in our bed. I think the couch should be earned. If he didn't behaving how we would like him to then he shouldn't be able to snuggle with us on the couch. But it's really hard to say no to that cute little puppy face. Does allowing him to be on the couch add fuel to the fire?



At 17 months, Sam can sleep with us and has fully earned couch privileges as well. Most of the time we have to ask him to join us on the couch. 

At 6 months he had nothing but crate time and on leash time at home. As his domestiation progressed, started to enjoy more freedom. 
Sometimes we felt like the dog will never get there but we kept at it and little by little he became a wonderful companion. 

Gone are wild dog days (although I enjoyed them very much), I lost 16 lbs in the process. I was lucky the wife never opposed Sam's existence and training (mainly because she didn't want a GSD again). We never imagined our first Vizsla would take exponentially more effort. 

A lot of helpful hints came from reading posts on this forum. I am greatly for that. 

No expert, but I think it would be easier if your fiancé was on the same page.


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## moonlightviz (Aug 17, 2012)

Please read the following article by Dr. Sophia Yin. Your instinct to show the puppy who is in charge, is going to create more problems, not to mention you can make the puppy hand-shy and distrustful of people reaching towards him.

http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/treatment_of_food_possessive_dogs_is_about_finesse_not_force

Have you contacted your breeder? 

This is a serious issue, especially for such a young puppy, so you should seek out the advice of a dog behaviorist (obviously what you are doing, is not working). You can look on the www.apdt.com website to find a professional trainer in your area. 

Good luck.


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## KKvizslamom (Jun 25, 2012)

Thank you all for all the great advice. I do believe it is our fault in not correcting him properly from the beginning or only partly correcting him right. I have the book "Mine" so I'm going to sit back tonight with a large glass of wine and read away!


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## veifera (Apr 25, 2012)

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh as I don't mean it to be, but the problem is not that you didn't punish him early enough or hard enough. The problem is that your puppy simply doesn't trust you.


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## KKvizslamom (Jun 25, 2012)

So is the trust ruined? Can we never get the trust back? If we can get it back how do we gain the trust back?


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

KKvizslamom said:


> Perhaps it's my yelling when he starts growling. I'm trying hard to be calm but ....it's hard. So it's probably my fault he's angry since I taught him to get angry with my anger. I guess at the moment I'm thinking I need to be louder to flush out his growling and intimidate him. I need training.


If you watch dogs in groups (even domesticated dogs) only the lowest members of the pack snarl and growl at each other. The way you're handling the situation is communicating with your dog that you are a low pack member and it is acceptable to fight with you over food/treats. 

I would put a leash on him (for your own safety) and see if you can train "leave it". This command can save you from suffering even more injury from your V because instead of trying to physically remove items from his possession you can simply give the "leave it" command.

http://dogs.about.com/od/basiccommands/a/leaveitcommand.htm

Trust is built through training, repetition, and patience. Has anyone physically punished the dog for his reaction? This will also make the situation worse.

I think a behavioral specialist would be very useful in your situation.


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## veifera (Apr 25, 2012)

My own view is that trust can always be built or re-built, maybe it will just take longer in some cases than in others. When it comes to food and treats, I think there's a lot of great advice here and in other places in the forum - I just wanted to point out that it's better if you focus on the root cause (why doesn't he trust you with food or treat) versus dealing with the consequences (punishing the growling). 

I'm also raising a puppy almost the same age. My breeder has a slightly unusual philosophy in that it is more productive when the dog does things for you willingly and happily, and not because it has been trained or forced to obey. When I was about to bring the puppy home, she spent quite a bit of time talking to me about teaching an eating/snacking puppy that a human coming over doesn't mean the fun stops. So if I were in your shoes, that's the principle I'd probably focus on.

I think getting that book is a great step and I wish you best of luck!


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## KKvizslamom (Jun 25, 2012)

The only physical punishment he's gotten is a bop on the nose or butt, that was what the breeder told us to do. Also we put him in his crate and that could be physical. He knows "leave it" well. We use the "leave it" command with the cat food and he turns around every time. I also use it with shoes on the floor anything that he looks like he's going for that I think he should leave. He has had basic puppy training and exceled nicely in the class. He does awesome with sit, stay, come, down, off, walks awesome on a leash ("drop it" still needs some work). The growling over long lasting treats such as pb filled kong and bones is the only problem we have with him. It started a while ago and we asked the Vet about it and his answer was dont give him things like that. I personally dont think that fair. I think he needs to learn that he doesnt need to guard objects. Other than that he is a very sweet and funny little guy. I need help correcting his resource guarding and also help in starting field training with him. I did find trainers in my area but they are not available until next friday so I figured I could ask for advice in the meantime on this forum. I've been trying to find gun dog training books for puppies but haven't found any that look great.


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## KKvizslamom (Jun 25, 2012)

puppy graduation picture


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## SteelCityDozer (Aug 25, 2011)

Cute pic. I see he's at the stage where he's all legs.


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

KKvizslamom said:


> The only physical punishment he's gotten is a bop on the nose or butt, that was what the breeder told us to do. Also we put him in his crate and that could be physical. He knows "leave it" well. We use the "leave it" command with the cat food and he turns around every time. I also use it with shoes on the floor anything that he looks like he's going for that I think he should leave. He has had basic puppy training and exceled nicely in the class. He does awesome with sit, stay, come, down, off, walks awesome on a leash ("drop it" still needs some work). The growling over long lasting treats such as pb filled kong and bones is the only problem we have with him. It started a while ago and we asked the Vet about it and his answer was dont give him things like that. I personally dont think that fair. I think he needs to learn that he doesnt need to guard objects. Other than that he is a very sweet and funny little guy. I need help correcting his resource guarding and also help in starting field training with him. I did find trainers in my area but they are not available until next friday so I figured I could ask for advice in the meantime on this forum. I've been trying to find gun dog training books for puppies but haven't found any that look great.


I won't question your breeder as I know too little but here is how we handled resource guarding when Mac start it at around the age of 6 months.

First we taught him the drop it command with low level items like a ball. Get your pup excited about a toy and then tell them to drop it. Have a treat in your hand and when they drop it give them a treat. Repeat this lots and lots and lots slowly giving treats less and less often. 
Once your pup has mastered and understands what the command means it your pup growls over a bone then you give the drop it command. As this is a high value item and he is resource guarding you should fully expect for him to ignore you. Now notice you give the command not shout and no physical contact. Only the weak and impatient needs to use physical stress in dogs minds. Not only will he ignore you but he will growl he will tighten up and posture over the bone. 
Ignore his reaction and calmly give the the command again then wait by him and then repeat the command every few minutes. It is waiting him out really. As you are calm and he is tense he will get very tired and eventually he will drop it. When he does drop it you say good boy and let him have it right back or replace with another treat of high value. Repeat this and after some time you find the time you have to wait will get less and less. The dog whisper did this for a blonde golden retriever in one of his episodes. 

Just my take but there are many different ways. I have to agree with others that by smacking on the nose or bottom you are allowing the dog to lose trust in you and feel that you.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

KKV,

I pulled my other post on this tread. I was in a rough state of mind as I wrote it. 

Cesar Millan had a few good videos about this subject that you can find on You Tube.

Good luck. Remember calm and assertive leadership is not always easy to pull off.

Thinking like a dog isn't easy either.

"How to help your Versatile Hunting Dog Train Itself."

I found the above hunting dog training book good.

RBD


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Just wanted to say that photo is absolutely adorable!


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