# growling at kids



## nutmeg07 (Sep 14, 2013)

I have a 20-month-old female vizsla and we have been experiencing some odd and worrying behaviour recently. Her whole life she has been a very happy, energetic dog without any major problems, except being an overly excitable and high maintenance vizsla, who we love like nothing else. She has always loved being around people and loves hugs and cuddles. When she was a small puppy, or lets say until she was about a year-old she didn't spend much time with small children, partly because we don't have kids any ourselves, and it was quite tricky with strange kids as she was a real handful with them jumping a lot and biting when younger. For the last half a year however, she has spent a bit of time with kids every now and then, and has behaved well. She is patient and once her jumping is under control, is very good. 
Until a couple of weeks ago, when while she was a asleep a kid jumped on her, she growled, the child cried and the situation was not pleasant. However, although I was very surprised with her behaviour, I forgave her as I knew the situation and blamed myself for letting that happen to her. About a week later, she was in a situation where a room was very full of people including kids, she was very tired after being out running all day, and I should of again realised that and given her the chance to go somewhere peaceful to sleep. A child walked really close to her, she snapped, the child got terrified and cried, and again, the situation was not pretty. She didn't bite him, but it was obvious that she snapped. I was so worried and felt sick. The same happened again today, although this time she seemed to me happy around another child, and then she growled again. 
There is a pattern here now and I can't now let her around a child anymore. It may not sound like it, but this REALLY is so out of character for her, she is such a sweet girl, so patient, so easy. And yes I know all the stories on how kids have to be taught how to be around dogs and how they can be rude and how miracles are often expected of dogs and they are pushed for their limits and how its the always the dog's fault and therefore they always lose in that situation. 
I'm so worried and don't know what to do. Its not like any of those times have been a biting incident, but a warning for sure. What is she worried about? How can I fix it? Can I? I have been so happy about my sweet dog who is so good with kids and plays and plays, without issues. This will now limit my/our life to no end. 
I should mention, that sometimes she growls at us a tiny bit if she is super tired and asleep on her pillow. This only happens when she is totally exhausted, and I always ask her off her pillow and take it off her. She is fine with this. I try and leave her alone when she is this tired, but cannot guarantee that nobody is ever going to walk past her when she is asleep like this, and would never want to see her do that to someone else. She does get incredibly exhausted, as she goes 110% during the days, and then just collapses. 
Please can someone help, are we doomed?


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## nutmeg07 (Sep 14, 2013)

I should also mention that she responds very well to all training, her recall is great, she is good in different environments, she always has to wait for her dinner, she has never been possessive over her dinner, toys etc. She has a lot of dog friends, but can be a little unpredictable with new dogs nowadays. Also, this growling at kids behaviour started after she was at a boarding kennel for three weeks. It may have nothing to do with it, but makes me worry...


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## chilithevizsla (Apr 2, 2014)

Do not worry, your dog is not evil or wrong.
First thing to do is get a health check to see if anything is wrong with her internally as this can produce odd behaviors although I don't think this is the case as explained below.

It sounds like your dog is insecure and easily frightened while sleeping. I'll make this clear now, this is NOT aggression, this is insecurity and taking away her access to sofas will only make her more insecure, and since she think she's allowed on them they'll be a lot of cases where you'll be asking her to remove herself which will increase the problem, not solve it.

It's actually a fairly common problem with people who have their dogs sleep on sofas or beds and get asked to move or are disturbed a lot. What I'd recommend having is either having a dedicated place on a sofa or chair to reduce the amount of times this happens or transfer her sleeping area to a bed or crate slowly by predicting when she's going to settle and send her to a bed with a treat or kong instead. If you do stick with the sofa and need to wake her, stand away from her and call her to wake her up gently, once she's awake and fully responsive get her to come to you, don't use force or do it too quickly

The first two cases are obvious why it has happened but you didn't mention if she was sleeping or fully awake in the third instance? Could you expand?

It could be that you just have a dog that shouldn't be around kids when resting or asleep, in that case you just need to give her space away from the kids when she's tired. That could be anything from a crate in the far corner of the room with a do not disturb sign on it or a bed/crate/chair in another room where she can retreat.

If she was fully awake then it's a little more serious, the two previous events have probably causes a negative association and I'd be very wary around kids from now on but wouldn't be quick to brand her a child aggressive dog. This is something you can work on at this point but if you're not a confident trainer I'd get a professional POSITIVE trainer involved. Get a consultation (usually free) with a few trainers, discuss what methods they'd use and pick one you like. Do not choose anyone who physically corrects the dog, uses yanks on leads, pokes to break concentration or anything like that.

I think the best method would be to counter condition by having her on a lead in a large room while a child walks passed, if she reacts by lunging or anything like that to the child they're too close to you and you need a bigger distance. If she's responsive to you and/or looks at the child without any negative reaction then treat and say yes or click with a clicker. Repeat this many times, then make the child run past, same process above. Then reduce the distance ever so slightly and repeat, walk first, then run. Eventually your dog should have a child run passed her with no reaction. It's a long process and very hard if you don't have a child to practice on regularly maybe you can find a trainer with kids who's happy to have them involved in a safe way. You can start using a muzzle but introduce that slowly by first showing her it and let her sniff as long as she wants, you can also put yoghurt or something for her to lick off on it if you want, when she's no longer interested put it away and repeat tomorrow. When she's comfortable around it start by putting something in the bottom and hold it so she can stick her face in and get the treat but remove her head whenever she wants, do a few sessions of this before actually clipping the muzzle on and even then keep the time short and do not introduce kids until you've done this training otherwise the dog can associate the muzzle with the kids and the intensity of insecurity will increase.
I know a lot of people hate the thought of muzzles but just think of it as safety net, you probably won't need it but if something happens you need to know your dog isn't going to hurt anyone.

Sorry about the long response, this is a scary thing to witness (i know I went through the same thing) and it's even worse when it's a child invovled.
Good luck and let us know how you get on!


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## nutmeg07 (Sep 14, 2013)

Thanks for the reply, just wanted to clarify, the second and third time she was awake, although the second time she was very exhausted and just wanted to crash. The third time she was awake, warming herself in front of the heater, there were quite a few people in the room, and this child was heavily in her space. I was not expecting it the third time, but now looking back should of guessed it coming, as I think she now has a bad association with kids. I feel bad like I've let her down. 
I'm confused as in what to do with the growling when sleeping issue. She has never been allowed on furniture, only on her own pillow, but I agree that removing her from it when she growls has probably made it worse as now she expects it when someone approaches. I try and place her pillow out of the way, but I also need to feel ok about the fact that if someone happens to wander past her pillow she is not going to growl, I don't think that's acceptable. She does not do this all the time, only sometimes when very tired, but I feel uneasy about it. Not for myself, but for guests, and now with this new issue with the kids...


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

chilithevizsla gave you some good information. I would only add that it maybe better to go on a walk with her, away from your house with a kid. One that is mature enough to follow direction, before doing the practice at home.

You have to protect the dog, in order to protect the kids.
Most of these dogs will give slight signs (if not sleeping or jumped on) that they are uncomfortable with a situation, before the growl, or snap. It can be very small, as in squinting their eyes, or licking their lips. Dogs are great at showing body language, its us humans that have a problem reading it. 

Guests, and sleeping/tired dogs just aren't a good mix for some dogs.
Even the dogs that I can roll around in the their sleep, are crated in another room to rest, when kids are at my house.


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## chilithevizsla (Apr 2, 2014)

nutmeg07 said:


> Thanks for the reply, just wanted to clarify, the second and third time she was awake, although the second time she was very exhausted and just wanted to crash. The third time she was awake, warming herself in front of the heater, there were quite a few people in the room, and this child was heavily in her space. I was not expecting it the third time, but now looking back should of guessed it coming, as I think she now has a bad association with kids. I feel bad like I've let her down.
> I'm confused as in what to do with the growling when sleeping issue. She has never been allowed on furniture, only on her own pillow, but I agree that removing her from it when she growls has probably made it worse as now she expects it when someone approaches. I try and place her pillow out of the way, but I also need to feel ok about the fact that if someone happens to wander past her pillow she is not going to growl, I don't think that's acceptable. She does not do this all the time, only sometimes when very tired, but I feel uneasy about it. Not for myself, but for guests, and now with this new issue with the kids...


First things first is do not feel bad about this, dogs are complex and have their own mindset and ways of dealing with things. I am actually in the same situation as you but have made progression, it's very worrying and if the child is in the house I'm very tense and feel I have to continuosly monitor and control situations when both are present and it's very stressful.

Believe it or not growling is good, never tell her off for it because at the end of the day that's a warning that everyone understands. If you tell off for growling then she'll resort to giving more subtle signals which people, especially kids can't read and that can end up in a bite when someone fails to back off.

I don't think she'll have a problem with kids outside this kind of situation, my dog certainly does not.

You can certainly try and work on making hr feel more Secure about her spot by walking past her while she's awake and dropping a treat for no growling and Keep on walking if she makes a growl but it is something you may have to be wary of so a covered cratie or separating when guests are over is very preferable imo.


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