# "fighting" with other dogs



## lilyloo (Jun 20, 2012)

Ruby is 12 months old now and has always been very submissive. Last night we brought her over to a friend's house with us. They have 2 dogs, one small mix breed and a large husky. She has met both dogs several times and loves playing with their smaller dog. She also has always been a little afraid of the husky since he's a lot bigger than her and can play rough, but it hasn't really been an issue in the past. She typically just stays away from him. Last night the husky really wanted to play and Ruby became very nervous and eventually snapped at him and started fighting. I was shocked...she has never even barked at another dog before! We broke it up immediately and I leashed Ruby for a bit. When she seemed to calm down I let her off leash. The husky came over to play again and she started fighting with him again.

I ended up leaving with her and bringing her home because it just didn't seem like they were going to work things out.

Does anyone know what the best way to handle this is? Should I just have let them "fight" and establish boundaries? I really think Ruby was scared and felt threatened, but I can't be sure.


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## stryker (Dec 9, 2012)

I have a husky(9 years) and a vizsla( hes 4 and iv had him almost 6 months) and for the first 4 months it was madness with the fighting (mostly him), but it has settled down in the last 2 months.

He would get in the zone when he started in and I would have to break it up so he wouldn't get hurt. (she has a double arctic coat which he cant penetrate) My advice let them fight but monitor it. In other words no blood no foul


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Free Professional advice removed by Author.


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## adrino (Mar 31, 2012)

That's quite interesting lilyloo, I have to say our girls are very similar then.
Elza my so submissive girl... After going through 2 heat cycles she has changed a lot. She's very submissive, most of the time she ends up on her back with belly up if she meets with another dog. This can be towards the smallest dog ever to a big dog. Other times she just runs up to a dog and all is fine. 
Recently (3-4 months) we have been having fear related issues with her. I say fear related because of her submissive nature I can't see any other explanation. She has had many aggressive reaction to random dogs at random times. I am watching her like a hawk every day on every walk to try to predict these situations and read her body language each time to be more aware of it the next time. But despite all that she had a nasty commotion 2 weeks ago. Around 3 weeks ago we met a guy with a whippet and they had a fantastic run around - chase play for about 10-15 minutes. 2 weeks ago I met with the same guy-dog and after about a minute or two into meeting all of a sudden all I can see is snapping growling going for each other. Well actually Elza was going for the whippet, the whippet got scared and started to run away and Elza followed and l can hear a big yelp and crying and Elza just carries on and would not back off. I shouted a recall along with whistle and she stopped and turned my way but went back again... After the second whistle recall she came straight back to me and I put her on leash. The guy could barely catch his own dog... Poor thing I thought Elza nipped her in the bum. It turned out the whippet was bleeding from a few nips on her left side. She has never bitten or nipped a dog so hard that it would bleed. I was shocked and upset about it. Apologised for the owner and offered him my number just incase of any claim but he didn't want it. I think it was a surface nip so it won't leave a mark for life but still I have no idea what caused it. I was looking the dogs at the time but still don't know what happened. Since then I saw them again and all was cool but I called Elza close to me and carried on walking saying to him I don't want them to have another fight. 

Not long before that Elza had a nasty nip on her side too, some random dog just went for her and left a full open mouth print on her side and she lost some hair too. It makes me wonder if these situations cause her to behave in a similar way sometimes.


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## lilyloo (Jun 20, 2012)

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I do think it was just mostly noise and show, as there was no blood. I can't say for sure that it wouldn't have escalated if I didn't break it apart, however. It just really surprised me, because Ruby is one of the most submissive dogs I have ever known. She has always in the past submitted to every dog that she has come across, and has never tried to challenge me or my husband hen we take away her bones, etc.

I will say that she has also been one who has had a tendency to get picked on. We used to go to dog parks (don't anymore) and frequently she would get snapped at/pinned for reasons I could never figure out. She has also always been the dog that all dogs in the dog park want to come up and investigate. It's like she has a different scent/presence than most other dogs. I know that sounds silly, but it's something I've noticed. 

I think since she's always had issues with getting bullied, since she has gotten older she's become braver and wants to let other dogs know that it's not okay. 

Adrino, have you come up with any strategies to calm her if you see that she's becoming tense? The last thing I want is for it to become a habit for Ruby to react with aggression if she's afraid.


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## adrino (Mar 31, 2012)

Lilyloo, since it's been going on for some time we had tried a few things some with success. At this moment the best approach is positive reaction. If I see her being less submissive and just going up to a dog to greet I praise her well. I tell her its all ok and she's been a good girl. If she freaks out before she even met a dog (she starts to bark at some dogs in a far distance) I call her back and get some treats out to get her attention. Make her sit and wait till they get closer or if she's too stressed I change my direction. Although her recall is very good when she's in this state she's prone to ignore my recall which doesn't help the situation. She will run ahead of me barking with hackles up, pouncing on her back legs and looking back at me. At that point is very easy too see she's afraid. What I try to do is not let her get into that state. 
I'm just watching her all the time reading her body language, watching the other dogs and try to stay calm too! It's tough because it makes the walk a lot less relaxing than it should be. I also don't want her to feel that so every day I go out with a good thought in my head and thinking positively. 

It's been months since we are working on it and there's an improvement in her but there are days when she will freak out over one dog and from then on she will bark at every dog she sees. And then again she ended up in that fight too which was very recent. 

I'm also not sure why she became like that. She has been socialised right from the start but also got bullied by other dominant dogs as a pup or even later on. Now if a dog tries to dominate her she will snap in the air but maybe sometimes overreacts and ends up in a fight. 

I hope you'll find that it was just a one off thing. Ruby has had one heat cycle hasn't she? Sorry can't remember. For us that's when things has changed dramatically in her behaviour.


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## lilyloo (Jun 20, 2012)

Thanks for the tips, adrino. I agree positive reaction works. I did a bit of this the other night over at our friend's house. When both pups were sitting by each other and not seeming scared or overly hyper, I would praise and they both reacted well to it. It was when the husky would get rambunctious again and pester Ruby that Ruby would try to hide or run away and then eventually snapped at the other dog. I think it's very much fear related.

Ruby hasn't been through her first heat cycle yet, no. I am curious to see if I notice any behavior changes afterwards!


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2012/02/inter-dog-dominance-aggression.html

Article on Inter-Dog Dominance Aggression
http://www.petplace.com/dogs/inter-dog-dominance-aggression/page1.aspx

Extracted from above article. 

_"Dogs fight for a number of different reasons but dominance, in one form or another, underlies much of this feuding. When a couple of unfamiliar dogs encounter each other there is a good deal of mutual investigation that occurs between the two dogs before either can fully relax in the other's presence. During this investigational stage, all five senses are utilized to gather information about the competition and a variable amount of posturing goes on as the dogs transmit their comfort level toward each other through the medium of body language. 


If two easygoing dogs meet, there is rarely a problem. If one dog is clearly dominant over another, and the other dog accepts his dominance, again there is no real reason for concern. The more dominant dog transmits his status to the other by certain characteristic posturing and expressions. 

Perhaps the most well known signal is the dominant dog's stare. Other signals of dominance include tensing of muscles, erect ears, tail held at or above horizontal, and the head and neck held high. The approach of the dominant dog is often toward the other dog's flank, and upon reaching it, he may rest his chin upon the other dog's back almost daring him to react. 


A clearly subordinate dog will defer to a show of force by averting his eyes, shrinking down to make himself small, holding his tail either low or tucked between his legs, and may even squat and urinate or roll over to expose his belly in extreme situations. At the instant the dominant dog has received the signal of deference, he immediately stops posturing and may start playing with the other dog. 


Problems arise when two dogs of near equal dominant status meet and the true leader is not immediately apparent. In signaling dominance, dogs may stand parallel to each other, facing the opposite direction, each with his head resting on the other's rump and each with his tail raised like a flag. Next may come a low growl, lip lift, snap, or even bite. If neither dog concedes, a dogfight will ensue, and winner takes all. 


In an entirely appropriate battle, the dog that eventually emerges as the dominant individual immediately accepts the underdog's concession. The dominant dog may laud his victory for a few seconds before strutting off but will usually not sustain or escalate his attack under these circumstances. Some dogs, however, are not savvy regarding canine etiquette and will continue to attack despite the other dog's obvious submission. Such dogs usually have a checkered history of improper socialization with other dogs or have had adverse experiences with similarly dysfunctional dogs in the past.


A dominant dog may behave well in the presence of nine out of ten other dogs because the others either defer or are even more dominant. Occasionally, however, such a dog will encounter another dog of almost identical dominance status and that's when the trouble begins. As two owners stand chatting, not paying much attention to their dogs, a fight may suddenly break out."_


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## adrino (Mar 31, 2012)

Thanks RBD,



> A dominant dog may behave well in the presence of nine out of ten other dogs because the others either defer or are even more dominant. Occasionally, however, such a dog will encounter another dog of almost identical dominance status and that's when the trouble begins. *As two owners stand chatting, not paying much attention to their dogs, a fight may suddenly break out*.


That I just ignore, as I said I'm watching my dog like a hawk to prevent any stressful situation for her. 4 out of 7 days I'm on my own chatting to no one but my dog on walks.... The other 3 days... 2 is with my other half and Elza 1 is with our dog walker.

London is the City of Ignorance, I hate it for that.... I avoid groups of people that have no idea where and what their dogs do.


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