# Why I (also) hate the term furbaby



## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Truly a "Pet" peeve of mine. 
These articles say it well.

http://www.yourtango.com/2015275999/your-dog-is-not-one-of-your-kids-insult-to-moms 

http://herdsnothoards.weebly.com/blog/why-i-hate-the-term-furbaby

On top of those opinions, to me it just reduces the dog - who I understand is obviously loved - to nothing more than a blob of itsy-bitsy-booboo-baby-googoo-gaga. (also hate baby talk to dogs) To me it is just very disrespectful to the power and intelligence of this breed of working/sporting dog. 

This picture, is no fur-baby. She is one heck of a powerful, driven, intelligent DOG. 

Ken


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Don't know that it would be good for me to post some of my many pet peeves.

But in being honest with the subject, I do call June mommas girl, and that's humanizing her. She would be better described as spoilt, bossy, and doesn't like to follow direction from anyone but me dog. I love her in spite of it, and its my kids that nick named her Mommas girl, when she wouldn't listen to them.

I do agree that putting animals on a higher (or equal to) pedestal than people can lead us down the wrong path in society. 
After this weekends trial, I hope you post some placements of your power driven, intelligent dogs.


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

I dislike the term "Furbaby" as well. 
I think it's the attitude that causes so many problems for dogs and owners down the road.... People need to understand that they aren't little people in fur coats, but rather, they are dogs. Dogs can and will bite. They eat poop. Roll in God knows what. They do things that dogs do. Putting expectations of a little child on a dog is unfair to the dog and people don't seem to realize that.


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## Watson (Sep 17, 2012)

While I agree with your point Willowynd, I don't think those articles do. That seems to be the new tone and trend with some mothers who feel the need to parade around the fact that they are moms, and that unless you are a mom, you could never understand the amount of work that goes into something. The author even preempts her self righteousness.

I don't call my boy my furbaby, but he will always be my "baby". I treat him the way I would treat a child. I have invested in him the time, energy, and money that some parents wouldn't dream of giving to their children. To me, this isn't degrading him, this is respect. In my world, animals deserve as much respect as children do, and that will always be the case. I would put money on many animal lovers feeling the same way.


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

But he isn't a child. He is a dog.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I have to say I in no way treat my dogs like I do my children.
They have never been locked in a crate, or worn a ecollar.
They don't get left in the truck (when the weather is cool enough) while I go in and have a relaxing lunch after a hunt.

Some people might not spend that much on their kids, but I've never met them.
I've raised 5 kids, and any one of them have cost me more than I've ever spent on a dog. I don't think there is any need to be self righteous for having kids, or owning dogs. Most of us just chose the type of life we enjoy. 
When one of my dogs pass I'll grieve the loss, but will get another dog.
I hope to never have one of my kids pass before me, and I can't just go buy another to fill the void.


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## Watson (Sep 17, 2012)

V-John said:


> But he isn't a child. He is a dog.


That's not what's in question. Of course he isn't a child. My point is that my dog is as important as any child would be to me.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

I think we'll find some commonality in opinions here. This is not meant to denigrate or minimize people's opinions or show one group to be subpar or another elevated. It is simply a viewpoint derived from different life experiences. I have had no life experience more transcendent than becoming a Parent. 

Overall my "gut" from years of working with dogs and their clients is:

People who have children understand the real difference between a child and a pet.

People who love their dogs and have never been a Parent _think_ they do and will argue vehemently to defend that thought - right up until they have children. (and all too often then re-home the dog)

Yes, there are similarities and I'm all for a good pet owner. But the truth as I see it is owning/loving a dog is a great "primer" on becoming a Parent. As a Parent, having a dog is most definitely not BEING a Parent. I've witnessed many dedicated "dog parents" become Real parents and the metamorphosis in opinion is amazing. 

Of course this does not mean any of us are not Animal lovers - one can love an animal and still feel it is not the same as one's love for one's child. 
I submit that until one has a child, one can never fully comprehend the depth of ones devotion to that being.

K


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

with over 45yrs with 1-2 V's in my life - 2 sons & now 4 grand children - the the pups have always been COMPANIONS in our lives !!!! & yes they are dogs - they never grow up & never leave home !!!! to call them a PET - is a INSULT !!!!!!! they are GUN DOGS !!!!!!!!


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## Pecan_and_BB (Jun 15, 2015)

WillowyndRanch said:


> I think we'll find some commonality in opinions here. This is not meant to denigrate or minimize people's opinions or show one group to be subpar or another elevated. It is simply a viewpoint derived from different life experiences. I have had no life experience more transcendent than becoming a Parent.
> 
> Overall my "gut" from years of working with dogs and their clients is:


I don't mean this in a combative way by any means, but I after reading your post, I would swap the word "gut" with "partisanship", and I do not mean it in a negative way as we all show it towards certain issues. 



> People who have children understand the real difference between a child and a pet.


My wife and I are unable to have children and are now in our 40s. We have 13 nieces and nephews and have been proud owners of 3 dogs. We have quite a few married friends who are in the same boat as us and I can tell you, we ALL understand the real difference between having children and having a dog.



> People who love their dogs and have never been a Parent _think_ they do and will argue vehemently to defend that thought - right up until they have children. (and all too often then re-home the dog)
> 
> Yes, there are similarities and I'm all for a good pet owner. But the truth as I see it is owning/loving a dog is a great "primer" on becoming a Parent. As a Parent, having a dog is most definitely not BEING a Parent. I've witnessed many dedicated "dog parents" become Real parents and the metamorphosis in opinion is amazing.


I hope you can see the condescension and generalization in these statements and understand that is why I use the word partisanship to better describe you POV. People without children are very much capable of rational thought, and are still able to discern the differences through their own experiences, conversations, and interactions with children in their circle of family and friends in order to conclude that dogs are not children. Furthermore, while you state your intention isn't to minimize or create a level of elitism, surely by making these statements, you can see how you've done just that. In essence, you have projected your own biases into your experiences to reaffirm you preconceived conclusions.



> Of course this does not mean any of us are not Animal lovers - one can love an animal and still feel it is not the same as one's love for one's child.
> *I submit that until one has a child, one can never fully comprehend the depth of ones devotion to that being.*
> 
> K


I'm sorry if this comes off as offensive, but the last statement in bold is just silly. Any human who possess compassion and empathy can witness the bond and devotion of a mother/father to their children in order to comprehend it's strength. One simply can ask the question "So, how is little John/Jane doing?" to a sibling or friend, then sit back and not say a word for the next 4 hours to witness the passion, pride and dedication a parent has for their child.

On topic in regards to the term "furbaby"? My wife and I have never used it for any of our dogs, but if someone chooses to use that term as a nickname or term of endearment towards their dog, then who am I to tell them they should not.


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

Watson said:


> I don't call my boy my furbaby, but he will always be my "baby". I treat him the way I would treat a child.


This. This is the issue. You simply cannot treat a dog as you would a child. They are dogs. Not children. That's the point I'm trying to make. So many of the problems I see in rescue, are as a result of treating them as a child. 
Out of the last five dogs I've fostered, four of them had issues with biting. 
People need to be better at reading dogs, and the signs that they give. Be better communicators with their dogs. Have an understanding that the absolute glorious thing about dogs is that they are dogs.... And not little children in fur coats.


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

Watson said:


> V-John said:
> 
> 
> > But he isn't a child. He is a dog.
> ...


My earlier post was directed at your first post. 
But I see this one now.


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

Pecan_and_BB said:


> WillowyndRanch said:
> 
> 
> > I think we'll find some commonality in opinions here. This is not meant to denigrate or minimize people's opinions or show one group to be subpar or another elevated. It is simply a viewpoint derived from different life experiences. I have had no life experience more transcendent than becoming a Parent.
> ...


Very good post. I don't have children either. Apparently I need to in order to understand some things.


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## Bob Engelhardt (Feb 14, 2012)

Pecan_and_BB: 
My reaction was much the same as yours - thank you for expressing it better than I could. WillowyndRanch says "This is not meant to denigrate or minimize people's opinions or show one group to be subpar or another elevated.", but it does come across that way. As you say, condescension was what I felt.

Bob

BTW - this is my strictly personal opinion and not at all that of a Moderator addressing what should or shouldn't be said on the Forum.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Try as I might, I simply cannot seem to have any opinion without offense. 
I stand by my statement that when one actually HAS children, there is a primal, deep, natural change in one's being - at least the case for me. You speak from your perspective, I speak from mine.

I really don't need you to rephrase my position for me, it is my "gut" or my internal understanding that I am expressing. I don't need it Politically corrected, thank you.

Before I had children, I held the same opinion as those who as I stated do not, but will vehemently defend their position as I predicted and is being played out here nearly verbatim. I would have done the same in defense of my position. The moment my daughter was born, all that changed. I cannot explain it other than it was absolutely life altering and something inside me "switched". 

Do you know, when a bird - dog first gets it's mouth on a bird, it's eyes dilate. There is an imprinting of that moment in the dog so deep because of it's genetic code. If young, it holds that imprint for life. Why would we think that when one gives birth or holds their child, of their DNA, that there is no other change in one's being other than a rational thought? 

There are experiences in life that change people. Facing death through serious illness or accident, combat, having children, etc. Having a cold or knowing people who have cancer is not the same as surviving cancer. Playing paintball, even serving in the military or knowing someone who was in combat is not the same as being in combat and having friends die in your arms. Knowing people who have children is not the same as having children.

If you are offended, I'm sorry you are offended. That does not change how I feel, or what I hold in my opinion. I cannot put an opinion more eloquently or with more disclaimers of not trying to offend. Perhaps offense is taken merely because it is not your opinion, or that logical thought cannot replace experiences. 

I have a lot of friends and relatives that are childless. I have a lot of friends and relatives that have children. It doesn't mean I don't respect their opinions, or them, or their life choices or challenges. Is it no longer acceptable to hold one's own opinion without others feeling "attacked" or condescended to?

You accuse me of projecting my own biases into my opinion. YES! - as do you- As does everyone. It's called being human. However, it is not pre-conceived as you state, in fact - the preconception is exactly the opinion one would hold prior to having an experience. It is a conceived opinion, derived from the experience. 

I still hate the term fur baby.

And once again I realize I am not politically correct enough for any conversations on this forum.
Moderate away.
Ken


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I don't feel there is any reason to moderate.

You will have people say Ken is dead wrong, and I love my dog just as much as others love their children. I'm not them, and I have no way of measuring just how deeply their love extends towards their dog. 

Then you will have other people say Ken is spot on. While I do love my dog, it is still a dog, and needs to be treated as such. It is love, but its in no way the same as I feel for my children.

The only problem I have with the They are equal to us mentality, is the laws that have been put in place because of this way of thinking. No one wants to see any animal abused, but some of the laws go over board.



> And once again I realize I am not politically correct enough for any conversations on this forum.


Maybe your better suited for these conversations than you realize.
If everyone always tried to agree, and only worried about being PC it wouldn't be much of a forum. I personally like topics that make you think, and have some differences of opinion, and I don't think I'm the only one. 
Deb.


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## Pecan_and_BB (Jun 15, 2015)

WillowyndRanch said:


> Try as I might, I simply cannot seem to have any opinion without offense.
> I stand by my statement that when one actually HAS children, there is a primal, deep, natural change in one's being - at least the case for me. You speak from your perspective, I speak from mine.
> 
> I really don't need you to rephrase my position for me, it is my "gut" or my internal understanding that I am expressing. I don't need it Politically corrected, thank you.


I can only speak for myself, but I was not offended, I was merely attempting to have an open discussion that could hopefully broaden your "gut" or internal understanding of the subject since based upon your statements, your current opinion is that anybody without children can't possibly understand the depth of the bond between parent and child. It has nothing to do with being politically correct or having an opinion that is outside of what you seem to consider the "popular" opinion, furthermore you are more than entitled to your opinion on any subject. However, when you decide to share that opinion, please understand that there will be people like me (who do not share the same opinion) that will want to discuss why you make the statements you do since they do not line up with our life experiences.



> If you are offended, I'm sorry you are offended. That does not change how I feel, or what I hold in my opinion. I cannot put an opinion more eloquently or with more disclaimers of not trying to offend. Perhaps offense is taken merely because it is not your opinion.
> 
> I have a lot of friends and relatives that are childless. I have a lot of friends and relatives that have children. It doesn't mean I don't respect their opinion, or them, or their life choices or challenges. Is it no longer acceptable to hold one's own opinion without others feeling "attacked" or condescended to?


Again, I cannot speak for others in here, but I did not feel attacked or condescended to, I merely asked if you could see how your statements carried a level of condescension and generalization since that's what I observed. Similarly if I made such a statement like: "Today's parents want to be friends with their children more than an authority figure which is doing a disservice to this generation of children." Of course you, as a responsible parent, are going to read that statement and want to know why I hold that opinion in regards to every parent, and of course you are going to feel like the statement is a grossly over generalization and does not hold any relevance or truth.


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## Bob Engelhardt (Feb 14, 2012)

WillowyndRanch said:


> Try as I might, I simply cannot seem to have any opinion without offense.
> ...
> Moderate away.


The latest issue of The Atlantic has an article about the extremes recently taken at some universities to avoid anyone ever being offended*. It's really ridiculous. I hope that HVF never comes to that - not ever making offense is not possible in any reasonable discourse. It's all about _degree_. Personal and vile attacks at one extreme and insensitive generalizations toward the other extreme. I don't think that this topic is at a level that requires moderation.

Bob

* - http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Ken we do not always agree - but to walk away from the forum & let those who disagree take over is a MISTAKE !!!! you are 1 of the Very few that breeds & trains V's - how can the forum find another 1 ? fur baby is just a WORD Opinions are just that - what is correct - at my age still working on that - if you say nothing - ALL is LOST !!!!!!!!!!


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