# puppy aggression



## haney51

Hi guys

Just got our puppy nearly 2 weeks ago. He is 9 weeks going on 10. 
At first he was fine but gradually started to growl when he is being picked up or moved when sleeping as he falls asleep on people. 

The growling eventually turned into real aggression where is has actually attacked myself, my girlfriend and mother.

Lucky enough he is still small and hadn't done any damage. But still not an ideal situation. 

He isn't playing when he does this I know the difference. When he attacks he is very stiff, snarling, growling showing teeth and biting! We have used the mouthing techniques so he controls his biting when mouthing and it did get really gentle but seems to be getting worse again. Hes not resource or food aggressive only when being picked up and disturbed this happens. 

Any help and experiences would be really appreciated.


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## gem2304

I have the exact same problem with my 13 week old puppy 

He snarls and growls when we try to move him if he is sleeping or resting. I have read a bit on the internet that says its puppies testing the water and see how much they can get away with but its actually really upsetting when your little puppy turns on you.

My main worry is that I will end up with an aggressive dog but he is never aggressive over anything else.


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## haney51

i know thats the same thing im getting when reading up on the internet but the problem is it gets worse. even when hes sitting on his bone i go to pick it up he freaks out and snaps as i move him slightly. wont be an ideal situation for when they get bigger and jaws get stronger


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## trevor1000

My boy went through that stage too
A few times I had to grab him by the scruff and put him to the floor until he calmed down.
But only because he was curled up with one of my daughters and I didn’t want her to get bitten.
He was in our bed with my wife and just fell asleep.
I thought perfect I’ll just tuck him into his crate and everyone will have a great sleep.
Ummmmm no, as soon as I slid a hand under him the teeth came out and stayed out.
I was funny to actually hear my wife say “I don’t want him“ with a feared look on her face.
I had to do the ole *look over here at this hand, and snapped my fingers. Then grab him with my other hand* He was not in a pleasant mood we will say.
Eventually he got the point that it is unacceptable to bite out of anger or get his teeth out at anyone.
I found the key to avoid it is to get him in his crate before he gets to that point, or if he is sleeping I just leave him.
He would never sit still (like all of them) but then he would eventually jump up on the couch and lay down beside me.
That’s my cue to get him to his crate.
I found a treat or two will sway their mood into a positive one, even if they are exhausted.
He is 5 months now and he will _grumble_ a bit if he is tired but no more teeth.
But then again that’s just how it went for me, I would think they all would outgrow it.

As far as the garding of the bone, I can't say anything.
My boy has had zero garding instincts from day 1.
Just my 3 cents



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## CatK

If they get possessive over you, sofa, bone, bed, toy, then they lose the item. They own nothing. No getting on sofas, no getting on beds, they will figure out very quickly that they don't own things, and they will feel more relaxed for not having to try to guard them. Good book someone here recommended to me when Morris was little: 

Mine! A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding in Dogs
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mine-Practical-Guide-Resource-Guarding/dp/0970562942

Good luck


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## jjohnson

Our Vizsla would growl when we tried to move him off the couch at about the same age... we worked on it, he got over it, didn't do it for a long time, then around 2 years old he started to "guard" the couch again, along with food, bones, toys, etc. He had never shown any resource guarding behavior other than the couch thing, and I thought we didn't have an issue, until he reached maturity around 2 years old.

I think the growly behavior at such a very young age can mean a predisposition to this type of behavior and probably means it just needs to be watched and worked on. There is lots of information on this forum and the internet about resource guarding if you need help!


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## Watson

I think a lot of new owners fall in love with these adorable puppies to the point of letting them have freedom from day one. 

For the first two months of having Watson, we only played on the floor with him. He was allowed on the sofa at about five months old. To this day, he prefers the floor. When it was nap time (puppies sleep a lot), or our time, he was in his crate, where he could settle. Some may not agree with me, but I truly believe that your puppy should spend a lot of time ALONE in their crate the first few months of their life, only out to play/potty/train and back in for naps. This set up worked very well for us, as there were no opportunities for Watson to be destructive, and no need for him to be aggressive as he was not bothered while he slept. Freedom has to be slowly introduced.


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## Watson

haney51 said:


> i know thats the same thing im getting when reading up on the internet but the problem is it gets worse. even when hes sitting on his bone i go to pick it up he freaks out and snaps as i move him slightly. wont be an ideal situation for when they get bigger and jaws get stronger


With bones or anything of high value, you should be holding onto one end while he chews the other. You can move it away and give it back to the puppy immediately to show him that you're not trying to take it away from him. Eventually he'll learn that you holding onto it actually helps him position it better. Trading also works, he gives you what's in his mouth, you give him a yummy treat!

If you're worried about food guarding, you can hand feed, as well as drop extra food into his bowl while he's eating. He'll associate people coming by his food bowl with... more food!! ;D


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## haney51

thanks for your help guys. the growling and attacking is the major concern just now but i am happy to know we don't have a rogue dog! and that your dogs grew out of it. 

it is being challenged when he does it and if we have him in out hands when he does it he wont be put down until he is calm. 

the resource guarding isn't an issue it was because when i took his bone i nudged him and he freaked a little.

Watson i think your right. we have let him have some freedom to try let him settle down quickly and also not leaving him along as he had diarrhea for the first week so we watched him to make sure it was trampled all over the living room. luckily we are only a week and a half in so these habits should be able to crack down on. 

thanks people.


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## texasred

I didn't see it mentioned in the other posts on this thread.
If your dealing with a problem, this forum is a wonderful place for information, but please talk to your breeder too.
They are also a wealth of information and want to know how there pups are doing. Hearing the good and the bad helps them evaluate their breeding program.


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## Hunter.IT

Hey there, 

Hunter used to do the same when we got him, you need to put some rules and boundaries from the very 1st days! He didn't like to be picked up or moved while napping, but we showed him that this behavior is not acceptable. Another thing I believe is that when they are that young and have just changed their home, still don't trust their new human pack. Hunter is now almost 8 month, there is no such issue no more, complete trust and he loves to nap with us and cuddle. 
Remember exercise, discipline, then affection. 
Good luck and welcome to the forum.


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## Lenalou

Funny this has come back up, as Toby (15 wks) has displayed a bit of aggression today. It's absolutely pouring with rain here and he didn't want to go out to toilet. He kept backing away from the door then ran to the kitchen. As I followed him down to coax him he obviously thought I was going to grab him so leant onto his front paws then sprang up and got my finger. I said no sternly, picked him up and carried him out and then he did it again when we came in as he didn't want to go to bed. This time with a little growl. I'm afraid he got a big shout of 'no biting', was picked up roughly and put straight into bed. Little monkey. We seem to have new phases starting every week, this one had better not last long! He is the bitiest dog I've ever come across which is a little worrying.


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## texasred

Have any of you talked you your breeders yet?
Its not uncommon for some pups to challenge a owner at some point. It maybe a stage, or how the pup is being handled. IE to firm or to spoiled. It could also be genetic. Some new owners may feel embarrassed to call the breeder. They may think its their fault, or think the breeder will think badly of them.
All that needs to be put aside, and have a honest open conversation with them.


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## haney51

Hunter IT: how did you make sure your dog knew the snarling and snapping wasnt happening? We have tried everything and he just doesn't listen, keeps doing it. We can't seem to find a punishment that works.


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## redbirddog

Haney51,
Do you think a one-on-one session with a dog trainer might help your situation?

There are thousands of folks that make a living helping new dog owners through these issues.

You will want to find a obedience puppy training class soon anyway.

Not everyone is a "do it yourself" type. Getting assistance from people that have spent decades training to understand dogs should be used more often before a minor issue becomes a major issue IMHO.

Do you do all your own electrical work, automotive work, or plumbing? Find a good professional. They are out there.

Money we'll spent on your dog. Your partner for the next 15+ years.

RBD


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## haney51

Hi RBD,
We had a 1-2-1 session with a professional dog trainer on Tuesday but the techniques we were shown seemed to make his aggression worse so we have decided to stop using them. He did confirm it was minor aggression but its still aggression that can make him unbearable in a split second.
He can finally get out tomorrow and will be going to puppy training classes tomorrow night and Tuesday night to see how he gets on.
Thanks for your advice.
Hanley51


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## redbirddog

Good to hear on the puppy class. Find a trainer you and you dog like. I went through six dentists before I found one that was right.

A high-prey drive Vizsla can be a challenge. What many of us love about them is their high energy. How we direct that energy correctly is the secret. You may have a dog that will challenge you. Some are like that. You need to find out how to be your dog's leader without becoming a tyrant. Some of us actually like that overdrive, high-octane hunting energy. We look for it and deal with it. Not for the timid or weak of spirit.

Have you talked to the breeder yet?

Good luck,
RBD


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## texasred

I love a high drive dog, and the really smart ones can be a challenge. The problem ones (I own one) are even more so. Ten times the training and owner stress. 
You can not be a tyrant, although rules have to be in place. You have to build such a strong bond/trust with these dogs. Its tough because a puppy needs to be treated/trained like a puppy, even a aggressive one. They do not have the mentality of a older dog. You may want to keep the pup on a leash when he is out of the crate, and gloves are a good idea.
Hopefully this is not the case, but some dogs are not hardwired correctly, and no amount of training will make them trustworthy.
I noticed on another post you said he was having some digestive issues. It that still going on? If so a puppy that does not feel well, could be more grouchy.


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## Ozkar

Pretty normal behavior. However, you must take immediate action when it occurs. Don't get angry or physical. But instantly, give a decisive "no", grab pup and isolate it. It will learn quickly not to growl at you in any circumstance.


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## Hunter.IT

Haney51, we followed Cesar Millan's approach, you just need to snap him/her out, at this age with a soft touch, or snap ur fingers, a small correction, I usually say "hey no"
We are in Italy and got Hunter here, so I couldn't find a trainer who speaks English. 
The important thing is to stay calm and not to get angry, they can totally see that. Vs are super intelligent, and they are generally not aggressive. Hunter is our 1st V so we are still learning. Remember that you need to show that you are the leader, ur V has to follow. 
P.S this forum super useful


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## texasred

I don't find it pretty normal that a 10 week old puppy has bit 3 different people, other than if the pup was rough housing. If playing rough everyone that walks into the house is fair game. I would not be quick to label the pup as aggressive, but something is not quite right if this keeps happening. You need to find out if its the pup, the way its being handled, or a combination of the two.
Not every dog is right for every household. This is why breeders evaluate the pups, and make us fill out long questionnaires.

I've owned plenty of dogs over the years, from hunting dogs, to herding dogs, dobermans, hog dog, and some that were mixed breeds. I have only had 2 out of all those dogs that would bare teeth instead of moving, or following a command. One was a rotty mix, that my father said was to much of a dog for me when I was young. I told the dog No, it turned towards me hackles up, growled bearing teeth. I didn't ask where the dog went, but it was gone the next day. Then I have my dog Cash, that I would not trust to be handled by a inexperienced person. Or even people that he does not have a close connection to. This does not mean a pup/dog will not test you, but its just a test and then things go back to normal.


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## jjohnson

Yeah, 10 weeks and biting people is not "normal" at all. We saw a behaviorist with our puppy, who snapped at a little girl when he was 10 weeks old. The behaviorist said that 10 weeks would be really young for a puppy to be displaying learned behavior, and that a lot of it at that age is likely just personality/genetic factors (not necessarily all, but a lot). Calling a 10-week old puppy that has aggressively bitten people "normal" is part of the reason why bad traits are being perpetuated in breeds. The breeders should definitely know if it is real aggression.


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## mlg1900

I haven't seen anyone talk about what the momma dog would do, if the puppy was acting out of line. 

Now, I don't have personal experience with momma's and their puppies but I have heard / read alot about them grabbing the dog by the neck and flipping the puppy on its side or back, making them submit. I don't think the mother would walk away from a puppy that was biting or growling her, right?


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## redbirddog

> I don't think the mother would walk away from a puppy that was biting or growling her, right?


From what I've observed that is exactly what the mother does once the teeth come in. She gets out of the box for some peace and quiet. She'll feed them when she has to once they get to that stage and then get the heck out of the way and let them knock each other around. That is how pups learn.


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## Watson

mlg1900 said:


> I haven't seen anyone talk about what the momma dog would do, if the puppy was acting out of line.
> 
> Now, I don't have personal experience with momma's and their puppies but I have heard / read alot about them grabbing the dog by the neck and flipping the puppy on its side or back, making them submit. I don't think the mother would walk away from a puppy that was biting or growling her, right?


Most trainers would strongly suggest not trying to correct a dog/puppy the way other dogs do. IMO, the timing and method of these corrections are not something that humans can replicate. I'm amazed at how many people I've seen flip their dogs on their backs when trying to correct or "teach them" something. There are more effective ways of training your dog and conditioning your puppy. These effective methods don't work overnight, they take time but they work.


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## mlg1900

Redbirddog - That makes sense.


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## mlg1900

Watson - I can appreciate what you are saying also. There are alot of trainers and techniques out there. I guess it is all trial and error!


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## Ozkar

TexasRed said:


> I don't find it pretty normal that a 10 week old puppy has bit 3 different people, other than if the pup was rough housing. If playing rough everyone that walks into the house is fair game. I would not be quick to label the pup as aggressive, but something is not quite right if this keeps happening. You need to find out if its the pup, the way its being handled, or a combination of the two.
> Not every dog is right for every household. This is why breeders evaluate the pups, and make us fill out long questionnaires.
> 
> I've owned plenty of dogs over the years, from hunting dogs, to herding dogs, dobermans, hog dog, and some that were mixed breeds. I have only had 2 out of all those dogs that would bare teeth instead of moving, or following a command. One was a rotty mix, that my father said was to much of a dog for me when I was young. I told the dog No, it turned towards me hackles up, growled bearing teeth. I didn't ask where the dog went, but it was gone the next day. Then I have my dog Cash, that I would not trust to be handled by a inexperienced person. Or even people that he does not have a close connection to. This does not mean a pup/dog will not test you, but its just a test and then things go back to normal.


Dogs over here must all be unusual Deb. I've never, and I mean never, had a puppy that didn't bite. They all bite. It's only 10 weeks old. It's learning everything, experiencing everything for the first time, most of which is done with their mouths. 

Now, a hooman ALLOWING this to continue....that is not normal! But in my experience, all pups will bite. At that age are not aware of the hurt it causes to a human is all. That part, we teach them. 

Both Ozkar and Astro tried the grumpy bite at me when I first disturbed them from their slumber. Neither have turned out to exhibit any aggression. Ozkar was only a pup, but Astro, due to me getting him as a re home, was 6 months old. Glad I didn't label him aggressive.


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## texasred

I wouldn't label a pup that young aggressive either, but I do think the owner needs more help than just the internet.
If a pup that young is handled to rough when it lashes out, you can create a bigger problem.

Pups will wiggle and give some growls, maybe a quick nip when you don't turn them loose as soon as they want. I calmly hold them until they become calm. Only then do I release them. I don't give any type of correction, its normal pup behavior.
This is why I feel is best handled with the breeders help, and or other people that have eyes on what is happening. Not a try and read between the lines over the internet


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## jjohnson

In my opinion, there is a big distinction between normal puppy play biting, which yes, all puppies do, and aggressive snapping. Play biting is of course normal in a puppy, and all puppies do that (I remember having teeth marks all up and down my arms as a kid from playing with our lab puppy). However, aggressively snapping and biting is something entirely different. I knew when our 10-week old snapped at a child's face that it was not "normal" puppy behavior at all. I've been around a lot of puppies, and before that had never seen one lash out in an aggressive manner. 

I think some people who are new to dogs do mistake the playful puppy nipping for aggression, however.


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## frazeled

I have a one year old male Vizsla. He's a lovely dog. But! In the last 3 months he has started fighting with other dogs. Say 2out of 15 dogs we come across in the park.. He jumps them and starts fighting. It has been awful.. As the last dog he's attacked. He pierced its ear. He seems to hate pugs and French bulldogs. 

We have a dog Behaviourist coming around to the house next Thursday.. I had booked him in to be Neutered. But she told me to cancel until she has seem him.. She said it could make him worse. He is now walking about like Hannibal Lecter. I feel sorry for him.. 😔 

Any advise please..


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## marathonman

Sorry to hear about your problems. You are on the right track with getting a behaviorist involved. Not being able to see the situation, we can't really tell if it's fear aggression or something else. Until you can start working with a professional, avoid the areas where he's being triggered to lash out. I'm in agreement with the behaviorist to wait with neutering. It depends on the dog, but it can exacerbate aggression. 

Dog parks (which I assume is the type of park you refer to) are really high stress situations for dogs. Too many hyper-active/under-stimulated/reactive dogs with inattentive owners in too small of an environment. We had all kinds of problems in dog parks because of other dogs. (In our case, neutered labs and german shepherds would take offense to our intact male and get aggressive) We never go now unless we really need a place to stop when traveling (We are hyper-vigilant while there and quick to leave)


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## texasred

I guess I look at this a little different than some on the forum. First dogs go though stages where they test being the big dog, around other dogs, and try to not listen to us. They will pick (or at least try to) who they think they can bully, or go after. Some test out the dogs that are slightly above them, while others look for the more submissive dogs. The young males 12-18 months old sometimes feel like they have something to prove to a older males, they will try and push them till the older male puts a stop to it. 
I don't use dog parks but do run my dogs with other hunting dogs. If my dog is wanting to bow up or fight with another dog, its not listening to me, or taking my ques.
I tighten up on the dog following my commands, in the yard and then in the field. Lastly I do it with other dogs that I know. Here, Leave it, Over, and a command that means run to the front. Also do lots of on leash with another dog that is handled by someone else on leash. Anytime, I see any sign the dog is thinking he may bow up, I give a command that puts his attention back on me, and he/she has to follow it.
I ran my nephew's lab that is retired from hunt test, and my husband ran our male vizsla at a tower shoot. Both dogs can, and have in the past bowed up at other male dogs, and wanted to fight. Yes they did raise their hair up a couple of times, but it went no farther. The reason is they would be given a command they could not follow, and fight at the same time. I even put them both on sit in the back of our UTV uncrated while we drove to another part of the field. They were never left untended to decide what they wanted to do. I only leave dogs untended together that have a known relationship of getting along.

We humans do not like every person we meet, but we learn to tolerate them for short periods of time. 
I just feel a good many dogs are kind of the same way.
Some dog they like, and others they don't. They just have to tolerate some for short periods of time, without resorting to fighting.


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## redbirddog

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2009/12/history-and-misconceptions-of-dominance.html

(note: link now fixed. Thanks TexasRed for letting me know it didn't work)

Almost five year old post above. Still I refer to it often.
Dogs are dogs. They have their own rules. Do not neuter yet.


> We have a dog Behaviourist coming around to the house next Thursday.. I had booked him in to be Neutered. But she told me to cancel until she has seem him.. She said it could make him worse.


I like this behaviorist you are meeting with. How did it go?
I am an owner of a male that will not "submit" Well almost never. A Great Dane intimidates him. ???

RBD


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