# spats with small dogs



## VictoriaW (Mar 16, 2011)

Just returned from an off-leash walk with Gracie. It's 50 degree is MA today -- so it was busier than usual.

The park is not a dog park per se, but there are plenty of off-leash dogs there. There are several miles of walking trails through the woods and occasional open fields. Gracie was playing in one of those fields with a friendly large mix when a pack of ~5 dogs came along. They were all shapes and sizes, so I am guessing that they woman who was with them was a dog walker. 

Among the dogs was a very small, feisty Boston terrier. He made several passes at Gracie -- growling and barking at her. Gracie was more or less ignoring him and chasing/running/jumping with the other dogs. I'm not sure what happened next. Did he nip her? Did she just get fed up with him?

All I know is that she went after him, teeth bared, hackles raised, repeatedly angrily barking at him. She chased him across the path and was standing over him, still barking furiously, when I grabbed her collar and pulled her off. The whole thing probably only lasted 20 seconds, but by the time I got there the little terrier was on its back, yelping submissively.

As far as I could tell, Gracie did not bite the dog or hurt it in any way. Still, it seemed to me that she could clearly have backed down much sooner. Her point had absolutely been made! The dog walker commented angrily that Gracie wasn't very nice, and cooed over the terrier and picked it up. I changed directions so that we would not be following them along the path.

This is Gracie's second spat with a small terrier. The first situation played out similarly, although in that case dog had clearly gone after Gracie. The woman yelled at me for having an unspayed female in a dog park with intact males. Gracie was six months old at the time. That felt like a clearer case of nasty-little-dog-crazy-owner, and I have been a less frequent visitor to the dog park since.

How should I have handled today's situation better? Is there a dog-language lesson that she needs to learn? Or was she handling herself appropriately, in dog language? 

FWIW, Gracie is 7 1/2 months and not quite 34 pounds. She is confident and can mix it up and hold her own with all kinds of dogs. It's her behavior with the nippy little ones that has me worried. I don't want my precious sweet girl to be seen as a bully.

Thanks for any advice!

Victoria


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2012/02/inter-dog-dominance-aggression.html

Funny that this just came up because that is the subject I posted about last night. 

Terriers are tough little dogs and stupidly fearless. Females will not put up with crap from a male spayed or not spayed. 

Reading body language is something after 4 years I am just starting to get a feel for. Watching the inter-dog relationships is quite interesting.

You did well. Don't get angry with your female but be stern when the other dog submits. ENOUGH! works well for us and "LET"S GO" and start walking away. She should follow you.

Here is an older post on the subject:

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2009/12/history-and-misconceptions-of-dominance.html

Happy trails and enjoy the good weather.

RBD


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

I had a very similar thing happen a couple days ago, when our Gus got cornered by my grandparents' 4 month old lab puppy who was nipping at him. The best way I can describe it is he "lost it" and went after the puppy, snarling and attacking. I had to grab him and pull him off (thank goodness the puppy was okay- it doesn't look like he actually bit him) After separated for a little bit, the two went back to playing and had a grand ol' time.

In this case, I think Gus got annoyed and felt cornered, and was only defending himself (the puppy didn't really get the cues to stop). I don't know if this was the case with your dog or not, but I have noticed sometimes Gus will feel "cornered" even if not physically cornered, or if the other dog is not understanding his social cues to "knock it off".


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

I had a similar situation with Sophie and a shiba-inu. We sometimes take Sophie to a playgroup at a local dog training school. It is a good school with professional trainers. Most dogs who come to the playgroup are well behaved and without behavioral issues. However, there is one shiba-inu who is a little bratty. He is still a pup under a year, but he definitely runs the household. He pees and poops right where all the dogs play even though there is an outside potty area. His owner always picks him up and treats him as a lapdog. Anyway, one day at the playgroup, Sophie was running around with a stuffed animal teasing other dogs who chased her. She ran into a corner behind some equipment wanting to hide with the toy and other dogs just kinda ran by her, didn’t care much for the toy except for the little shiba-inu. Sophie slightly growled at the dog saying it’s my toy, but the little dog kept pushing Sophie more into corner. So, Sophie growled louder asking to back off, but he didn’t. I didn’t get to see the whole thing because at that moment I was getting water for the dogs. But next thing you know I hear this big yelp and the shiba-inu is taking off across the play area. Apparently Sophie went after him showing some serious teeth but didn’t bite. It was ssoooo embarrassing because all the people looked at me, and I was in shock - my friendly Sophie did this! Then the trainers came and told me what they saw and said that it was a completely normal behavior, and Sophie was just standing up for herself. Still, I could see the lady with the shiba-inu wasn’t happy…. Oh well


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## kristen (Oct 18, 2011)

We have a problem with a little jerk of a dog named Jimmy at our local park. (see my previous comment about him http://www.vizslaforums.com/index.php/topic,3127.msg22533.html#msg22533 ) 

So much so, that I will straight up leave if I catch sight of him. He leaves most dogs alone, just picks and chooses which ones to annoy, mine happens to be one of them. Litterally he will just stalk Odin, trying to pick a fight. He's a bully, and just taunts him.
Last week when we went to the park Odin saw him from 50 meters away, got his hackles up, crouched into a low point, and made a strange bottom of his tummy growling noise. I clipped Odin's leash back on, and we were outta there. I just didnt want Odin to have to defend himself. It sucks, cause its taken a nice park away from Odin as that **** jerk Jimmy is always there! A couple weeks ago I saw a woman leaving with her dog screaming its head off; the dog was so afraid of Jimmy.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Kristen,

Suggestion is to print the articles I posted above and give it to the owner of the dog. My guess is they might not even understand basic dog language. Or if the person, like their dog, is a jerk the just let them know in whatever manner you think approperate. 

Maybe talk to them about inter-dog dominance and what to look for in their dog. They might thank you. Or not.

RBD


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

I confess. I am the owner of the yappy, crappy little dog that is the poster dog for stupidly fearless :-[ We have a 5 y/o mini dachshund that is a great dog as long as other strange dogs are not around. I do not allow her to behave that way, but I have been unable to correct it through various methods and trainers. She will leave her territory (our driveway) to yap and bark at a dog passing. Hair raised. One day she may get it what's coming to her, and she will deserve it. We do not ignore her behavior or allow it to go uncorrected, but I have been unsuccessful in getting rid of "little dog syndrome." Size or breed is no deterrent for Moxie. She kills snakes, sticks her head under water to catch crayfish, and is a tough little dog, albeit annoying at times. No one should have to put up with a little dog (any dog) being a pest. Some of the small breeds, ie: terriers, are the worst.


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## laurita (Jun 12, 2011)

Hi Victoria,
I think you did well, too. These spats happen and it's great to ask what you can do better, but often all we can do with the elusive canine communication signals that we get is to make sure that our dogs aren't bullying/taking advantage of the situation. Dogs go after mine sometimes and I'm less than proud to admit that mine goes after submissive dogs like they're candy. With time you may see more patterns as to what sets your dog off and vice versa and then you can only try your best to predict the situations and keep your dog away from them. Beyond that, sometimes it's best to take it all with a grain of salt and not take it too personally or beat yourself up about what you did wrong. I don't even want to begin to recall the times my dog has (and continues to) embarrass me in public. I think God put him in my life to humble me...constantly!


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

Bring a squirt bottle next time and douse the little jerks if they go after your dog. Most little dogs HATE getting wet. This is a good method for any of you dealing with a bratty little dog, whether it's your own or at a dog park. My parents have temperamental chihuahuas, and a little squirt of water will make them chill immediately.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

It just sounds like Gracie made him stop pestering her. I would just work on her recall or a word that lets her know its time to stop.


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## VictoriaW (Mar 16, 2011)

Thanks so much, everyone. 

RBD, I had read your post this morning, but I couldn't figure out quite where Gracie fit in. She is so playful and friendly with most dogs, and she often assumes a submissive posture when encountering strange dogs. She is feisty and rough (plenty of teeth baring, hackles raised) on long hikes with her Vizsla puppy friends, but even when they are quite evenly matched and incredibly spirited it always feels safe and both pups look to be having a grand time.

I just wish she would ignore the little terriers! Obviously, my dog is not a child, but if she WERE, I'd want her to learn that she didn't NEED to bother putting a little dog in its place, that she should be confident enough to shrug it off. Do dogs ever learn that?!

I guess what I would want for the next time is for her to make her point much more succinctly and then move on. It felt wrong for her to continue to bark so aggressively once the little dog had submitted. 

I need better recall/control when she is playing with other dogs. I am in the habit of not calling her away from other dogs too frequently because I do not want to ruin my "come" command in a low probability situation...but clearly I need to be *able* to call her away from other dogs when I need to, whether it's because things are getting too rough or just because it is time. to. move. on.

Any advice for strengthening our recall under these kinds of intense distractions? I can't really put her back on a check cord, because everyone would get all tangled up in it. (FWIW, we're not going to go the e-collar route right now.)

Thanks a bunch, everyone! I do appreciate it.

Victoria


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

You can still work her on check cord away from the dog parks. Its good to go back over the basics with them. It keeps the sharp.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Although not there so don't take this as gospel, it sounds like your dog did the correct thing. The yappie dog was in it's face, it corrected the dog and made sure it understood that enough was enough. Ozkar recently did this with a dog who was overstepping the boundaries by not stopping once Zsa Zsa had submitted. Ozkar gave him some Vizsla body language and bit iver the top of the neck to exert dominance and stop the dogs aggression. (He never bits hard, they have great bit inhibition, usually learned from out hands )

I would suggest the Yappie dog has some training and accept your dogs behaviour as normal.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

terriers are sneaky little beggars! a jack russell once bit my old black lab right in the crown jewels,,,poor old lab was 13 at the time
Maybe Gracie has been nipped by a terrier and is now wary of the pesky little beggars? .......I know I'm still wary of them after nipping poor old Rex, (hand automatically goes to crotch reliving the moment, ouch!)


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Something funny I noticed at field trials was that many of the professional trainers of high-octane sporting dogs had Jack Russells or other terriers as their pets.

One of them told me that they took care of the mice and other little creatures that came around out in the field during the night at field trials around the horse trailers.

All the 60 to 80 pound competitive & confident hunting dogs on the trainers "string" did what the terrier told them to do. Drill Sargent if you will.

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2011/01/getting-round-in-field-trial.html


RBD


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## laurita (Jun 12, 2011)

Victoria,

Having solid recall in a dog park situation at 7 mos, especially for a V, is very tough. If you keep bonding and making recall a positive thing in other situations, it will become better with time as your vizsla ages. I've noticed a huge difference at 13 mos vs 6 or 7 mos, for example. I'm all about working on training, but it's also good to know the limitations and that recall very likely won't be what you want at this age. I wish I had known that months ago... I wouldn't have stressed out so much about how I wasn't doing enough.

A few really cool recall exercises that I learned from Train your Dog like a Pro by Jean Donaldson (I am reading that book now so I keep quoting it) is to have a friend help you. Have the friend have some treats in his/her hand, stand away from them, and work on getting your dog to come to you despite the dog being interested in your friend. Keep at it with the most happy, sweet words you can muster. If your dog absolutely won't come after a while, maybe you need to get closer. When your dog comes, lavish with praise and _have your friend come and give the dog the treats_ so that he learns that coming to you is what gives the good things. the other is just an illusion. you can work on things like that when one other dog is over. try and get your dog to come to you when distracted (at a lower level) and give some great treats. you'll build up from there. Again, trying to get this to happen at a dog park is very difficult and you need to build up to something as difficult as that. Or you can try when your V has the focus of an older dog.


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

My dog was attached by a Jack Russell when he was 6 months old.

Only us in a field, the horrid little thing singled him out for no reason at all, when he wasn't looking it jumped him from behind trying to bite/attack him around the neck.

I moved away, where it charged him again, the owners told me he was a rescue and was playing, they had just taken him back to the dogs trust they had re homed him thinking he was attacking and the dogs trust said it was play. NO he wanted to kill my dog.

They were trying to re call their dog using a squeaky toy.

On the third attack I re called my dog, and on his way back the THING really went for him, chasing him out of the fields through the woods, in to the parks parking lane, out of the park , over the mini round about, out on to the road, and then crossing a main road, the whole time with the dog at his neck.

The other dogs owners did nt say a thing to me, in all honesty I think they were as shocked as me.

On getting to the main road, both dogs are gone, and a chain of people were telling me which way my dog had gone, a gent in a van stopped and told me your dog looks OK, hes just ran into a car waiting to pull out, but hes got up and ran off. The guy gave me a lift home, where the dog Brook was hiding at the end of the drive just of of view.

He seemed ok just a few flesh wounds. I put him in the car drove back to the park to find the other dog owner to give them a very big piece of my mind, but they didnt even stick around or come back to check I found my dog, I returned home to phone the dogs trust and give them a piece of my mind for homing such a dog.

My dog was fine at the same park, and with other same breeds, the very same day .

But for quite some time cars, lorries load noises at the side of the road frightened him quite badly.

On the opposite side there is a lady i run in to quite often who will not let my dog even sniff her dog,its a welsh terrier, Ive told her I put mine on a lead so they can get used to each other, and see is just not interested. One of the last times I can across her she shooed my dog away, I did say I was going to ask how you are getting on, but I wont bother, she picked her dog up and looked at me in disgust, and walked off, with my dog Brook blissfully sniffing and following her half way around the park, until he was well out of sight before he came back, I just called after him half hearted laughing to myself.

Mrs Hobbs


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## pippa31 (Aug 2, 2011)

Victoria,

I'm so sorry that happened to you! We used to take Pippa to a "puppy playtime" at a local PETCO on rainy nights when we first got her. There were SO MANY terriers and they were horrible to Pippa. We went twice and then decided it was NOT WORTH IT.

That being said, we are also working on recall in distracting environments


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Researching dominant aggression lately as it is maybe one of the least understood by me and others I have come across. Interesting research from New Zealand.

Excerpt:

"The major reason the dominant aggressive dog fails to recognize signals of aggression or appeasement is inadequate primary socialization. Non-fighting breeds like our hunting breeds if taken from litter too young developmentally, just never had enough exposure in the language. The aggressive dog might give no signal or inappropriate signals so the target dog is essentially being lied to. Or, the aggressor dog is not literate enough to recognize signals of submission given by the target dog . How young is too young for complete primary socialization? Because developmental age varies among individuals, even in the same litter, and certainly among litters, and most likely between breeds, we should ere on the conservative side and leave pups in litter at least 10 weeks. Removing pups from litter at the overly popular 7 weeks can, among other things, act to increase dominance aggression because the pup simply can’t read dog and this can result in a dog version sociopath."

Complete article:

http://www.trader.co.nz/versatiledogs/articles/aboutaggression.htm


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

All this senseless violence.
I am happy I stayed away from dog parks. First Sam was too small, later, Sam was not neutered ;D 
So we kept the interactions one on one on the field or in the forest. 
Every time more than 3 dogs came together I noticed some feathers flying, mostly Sam's. He is not dominating, happily takes his place at the bottom of the pack and tries to work his way up ???


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Ive also stayed way from dog parks. Mine socialize with the peoples dogs we hunt with. They also work with other dogs at the trainers in the field. People most likely think I'm like the older lady hobbsy1010 spoke of. If I don't know you or your dog then I put my dogs on sit. I ask that you keep your dogs away from mine. I will even step in front of mine, take theirs by the collar and return it to to them. Its not that I don't like other dogs, I just don't care to have mine attacked.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

the *very *first thing I trained with Ruby was recall, long before "sit, stay"etc just because that at a young age I could probably see a threat before she could, of course now that she's 7 months old she can outrun any nippy aggresive dogs and actually turn them and take the piddle out of them makes it sooooo much sweeter....I do have an avesio still to jack russells and would not hesitate iving one 9 lace holes up the bum if it came near my girl!


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## Hbomb (Jan 24, 2012)

@kellygh: your comment about your mini dachshund makes me laugh! 

Hercules has met our neighbours 2 dogs: the older one is a lovely chocolate lab and they like to play together. The younger one is a mini dachshund and we joke that him and h are arch enemies! He will bark and growl at him and then run away. 

The neighbours make the same joke about small dog syndrome! Hopefully they can be friends one day though!


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

we went for a walk with sister-in-law and her Great Dane/Rhodesian Ridgeback cross yesterday. Sister-in-law always maintains that her dog is aggresive due to it's previous owners and is very hesitant to let her play without a muzzle.
We said that that Ruby would either look after herself or submit if things got heated.
So, muzzle was removed and after a bit of a stand off and posturing, Ruby refused point blank to go submissive, they got on really quite well much to s-i-l's amazement


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Not all dog to dog interactions are positive, even in the dog world. I think it is important to socialise your pups with as many different dogs as possible early on. It teaches them that not all dogs display emotional intelligence and that there are both positive and negative dog on dog experiences, but overall, most dogs are ok, With mine I think it;s been invaluable in teaching them to read dogs, both good and bad.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2011/05/three-vizslas-meet-great-dane-at-beach.html

And some times the Vizsla is the small dog.

Bailey can even be submissive (notice tail and he is looking away in picture.)
 
RBD


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