# Hole above nose



## Jlpaez3

My V is 2 years old. He has a small hole above his nose where the fur starts. I believe he was born with the hole. I never thought much of it until he had soft tissue swelling further up his snout with pus coming out of the hole. He was treated with antibiotics and it cleared up. I am not sure what to do next. What is to stop this hole from getting infected again? Thinking of getting a CT scan so we can get a better idea of the anatomy of the hole. If anyone has had any experience with this, I welcome your info. Thanks.


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## Jlpaez3

UPDATE: Blue has what is called a Nasal Dermoid Sinus. It is a rare genetic anomaly. Off to the vet tomorrow to let him know we figured it out. Hopefully surgery will be scheduled soon to remove it and Blue will be good as new. Thanks for all of your help, jk, no one answered, lol. Maybe this will help someone else out if they ever find one on their V. I attached a picture showing the hole for reference.


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## texasred

Sorry. 
So glad you replied, and posted a picture. 
Blue sure is handsome.


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## mlg1900

Wow, I have not ever seen or heard of this before! Thank you for posting about it. Did you notice this hole ever since a puppy or only just recently? I hope that you find a fix and there are no more complications from genetic condition.


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## 1stVizsla

Thx for pic, a direct entry into nasal/sinus cavity seems like a bad idea. I would probably want it plugged (there are bone putty type mixtures that are used in facial/bone reconstructions in humans or perhaps they can do a different surgical close) as he is still relatively young. I wonder if this abnormality stems from these being extremely fine boned dogs. Good luck; he's a handsome guy.


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## Jlpaez3

I recall Blue having the hole when we got him at 8 weeks, but never thought much of it until he had the swelling and pus when he was almost 2. The breeder does not recall the hole and does not know if any other pups from the liter or any other liters they have had have it. If it is a dermoid sinus, it is a genetic condition that occurs in development as an embryo. It happens in humans also. It is rare, but there seems to be more documentation of it in Ridgebacks along their spine. I will be taking him to the University of Florida Vet school in a couple weeks. They will do a full work up and diagnostics so we can come up with a treatment plan.


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## texasred

I was hoping you were going to have someone, other than your regular vet check him out. 
Looks like you have a excellent plan in place.


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## Maverick

Hi- this is Sue, new mom of 16 month old Maverick. We adopted him 2 weeks ago & I noticed a small hole above his nose but no apparent problem. Looks just like your picture only maybe smaller. Please share what you found out so I can be proactive.


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## The Leo

My pup has the same hole since he is a baby. He will be 7 months old soon, have been fine but now I'm worry about it.


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## Justink

Same issue. Hole since birth. Almost 2. Other than antibiotics, any other solution?


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## Eli&RemysMom

Justink said:


> Same issue. Hole since birth. Almost 2. Other than antibiotics, any other solution?
> View attachment 103373
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> View attachment 103373


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## Eli&RemysMom

Just researching this now as my 3yo Husky/Shepherd mix has an identical issue. Hole above nose, no issues until this year when it had puss discharge back in Feb/March… cleared up. Now here we are in July and it started with puss discharge, then started to swell and now has a bloody discharge. Vet has him on antibiotics and we follow up in a month while he as researchers to see what he can find. Were you able to get a diagnosis. Any information would be appreciated.


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## Isabella

Jlpaez3 said:


> My V is 2 years old. He has a small hole above his nose where the fur starts. I believe he was born with the hole. I never thought much of it until he had soft tissue swelling further up his snout with pus coming out of the hole. He was treated with antibiotics and it cleared up. I am not sure what to do next. What is to stop this hole from getting infected again? Thinking of getting a CT scan so we can get a better idea of the anatomy of the hole. If anyone has had any experience with this, I welcome your info. Thanks.


Hi my new vizsla puppy has the same thing. Is there anything you can tell me about it?


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## Mrs M

Isabella said:


> Hi my new vizsla puppy has the same thing. Is there anything you can tell me about it?


Hello
No experience of this in dogs but do have in humans.
Pilonidal sinus looks very similar problem.
Best wishes to you pup xxx


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## Dan_A

Surgical correction is possible. Nasal dermoid sinus cysts in the dog - PubMed


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## Mrs M

Dan_A said:


> Surgical correction is possible. Nasal dermoid sinus cysts in the dog - PubMed


Hope you all get a good outcome. xx


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## AJBB

Hi All, 

my small-medium sized dog (mixed breed of unknown heritage, probably around 8 years old) rapidly grew this lump on his nose over 3-4 days over the weekend. It was so symmetrical and so unlike an infection/bruise that I was suspicious it was something to do with the pit at the end of his nose - google brought me here. Thanks all for posting your insights & pics. 

I am pretty sure it is a nasal dermoid cyst/related to the dermoid sinus pit that he has in common with the other dogs on this thread.

He is with the vet today, having it investigated, but I had to email her the research articles - she'd never heard of this issue before. I am based in London (UK) and I'm considering taking him to the Royal Veterinary College clinic for a second opinion, if the local vet isn't taking it seriously. I will see what the outcome is of today's fine needle aspiration.


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## texasred

@AJBB
You are most welcome, and glad the posts helped. If you don’t mind, we would love to hear what your vet, or the second opinion decides is the problem.
We are a Vizsla group, but we love all dogs.


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## AJBB

Hello. Thanks for welcoming me and my non-Vizsla!

Here's the first update... £500 later, anti-inflammatories and antibiotics have made no difference. If anything, the skin seems a tiny bit tighter over the lump. My dog is absolutely well and bright, not experiencing any pain or irritation, and doesn't seem bothered at all that he is turning into a rhinoceros! So I'm not too worried about him for the moment. I just want to deal with it before it turns into something more serious.

Fine needle aspirates were sent by the local vet to a lab for cytological investigation.

This email is from one vet at the local practice -
"We have results back from the lab - they've informed us that your dog has a pyogranulomatous inflammation. To you and me, that means he has a site of inflammation with some pus and a small amount of blood in. The plan going forward now depends on how he is responding. If he's doing well, and the swelling is going down with the antibiotics then I think we need to continue the medication and re-check Pip in a week's time. If he isn't responding at all the to the medication and the swelling is the same size or larger, then we should have him back in to aspirate the mass for culture."

I looked up pyogranulomatous inflammation and found this info:

*Pyogranulomatous (Chronic Active) Inflammation*_These preparations have an inflammatory population that contains both neutrophils and a prominent fraction of macrophages (15% to 50% macrophages). Multinucleated giant cells, reactive fibroblasts, and lymphocytes may be present also. Pyogranulomatous inflammation suggests a cause other than “routine” bacterial infection. Fungal infections (e.g., blastomycosis), higher bacteria (e.g., Actinomyces), mycobacteria, protozoa, and noninfectious disorders (e.g., foreign bodies, necrosis) are common causes of pyogranulomatous inflammation. - https://www.vetfolio.com/learn/article/cytology-of-inflammation_

I asked a few basic questions in reply. Then the more senior vet at the same local practice replied with this: "Next week is better as we want more time with the current medication. If the lump isn’t resolving with the current antibiotics; we may need to try to aspirate for culture. The lump was pretty solid and did not yield any liquid the other day. The procedure the other day involved removal of some cells for cytology. Culture involves trying to get some material out of the lump that is sent in a swab to the lab where they grow and identify any bacteria and then give us a sensitivity panel which lets us know which antibiotics to use. We do this when we are not making enough progress with broad spectrum antibiotics."

So now at least I can have a weekend off before I have to do anything. But I am confused - 1. if it's pyogranulomatous inflammation and this suggests a cause other than normal bacteria, it's no wonder the broad spectrum antibiotics are doing nothing, so why are we waiting/continuing them? 2. if the lump is solid and doesn't yield liquid, are we actually dealing with an infection? 3. If it is an infection, pyogranulomatous inflammation suggests that it isn't straightforward bacterial, so I hope the panel will be testing for other types of infection, 4. how would an infection have got in there, since there was never any cut/splinter etc., 5. So far, it is all in line with the dermoid cyst, but has the vet actually read anything I sent? Done her own research? 6. Why isn't she interested in the nasal pit?

So I will be asking all these questions of the vet.

I investigated getting a second opinion from the RCVS clinic, but they are not providing second opinions at the moment because COVID has/is causing a backlog of cases (bloody lockdown puppy purchasers.....!).

What I'm tempted to do is ask for a direct referral now to the RCVS Hospital (not too far from London) and combine a CT/MRI scan with the aspiration for culture. That way, he would only be having one further general anaesthetic instead of 2+. And the imaging would be able to give a broader picture of what's going on.

Thanks for keeping me company on this lonely and expensive journey... I'll try to continue updates. If long and detailed isn't your thing, then bad luck! 

If anyone else with a dog diagnosed with a nasal dermoid sinus / cyst issue has any info on the diagnostic process and whether any of this overlaps, please do share.

AJBB


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## AJBB

*@Eli&RemysMom *any update about your dog? Hope he's doing OK.


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## texasred

*What I'm tempted to do is ask for a direct referral now to the RCVS Hospital (not too far from London) and combine a CT/MRI scan with the aspiration for culture. That way, he would only be having one further general anaesthetic instead of 2+. And the imaging would be able to give a broader picture of what's going on.*

That would be my first plan, if they can get him in. Covid has slowed everything down around the world. If they could get everything done at one time and less sedation, it’s so much easier on the dog. Especially when a dog is trying to fight off a infection.
I’ve by passed my regular vet more than once.
I like my vet, and trust him. Just sometimes somethings are so serious, or happen over a weekend. I want a team of vets, with all the latest, and greatest diagnostic equipment at their disposal. When the happens, I make the drive to a highly rated vet school. I pay the ER fee, and higher prices, to have them seen that day. 
Not sure if any of that is a option for you.


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## Natijette

Jlpaez3 said:


> UPDATE: Blue has what is called a Nasal Dermoid Sinus. It is a rare genetic anomaly. Off to the vet tomorrow to let him know we figured it out. Hopefully surgery will be scheduled soon to remove it and Blue will be good as new. Thanks for all of your help, jk, no one answered, lol. Maybe this will help someone else out if they ever find one on their V. I attached a picture showing the hole for reference.


Hi! I have no Vizla , but a Wolfdog- Mix he has the same on his nose , recently he had that swelling on the back of his nose, the bump went away , but all over sudden this puss came out of this little hole.


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## Natijette

Jlpaez3 said:


> My V is 2 years old. He has a small hole above his nose where the fur starts. I believe he was born with the hole. I never thought much of it until he had soft tissue swelling further up his snout with pus coming out of the hole. He was treated with antibiotics and it cleared up. I am not sure what to do next. What is to stop this hole from getting infected again? Thinking of getting a CT scan so we can get a better idea of the anatomy of the hole. If anyone has had any experience with this, I welcome your info. Thanks.


How can i show a pic here?


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## Liz

Jlpaez3 said:


> UPDATE: Blue has what is called a Nasal Dermoid Sinus. It is a rare genetic anomaly. Off to the vet tomorrow to let him know we figured it out. Hopefully surgery will be scheduled soon to remove it and Blue will be good as new. Thanks for all of your help, jk, no one answered, lol. Maybe this will help someone else out if they ever find one on their V. I attached a picture showing the hole for reference.


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## Liz

How did it get cured? It looks like my pup also has the same situation


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## Mrmoose

Our pup has it too! We just rescued her and she has a few interesting developmental abnormalities including a pretty decent underbite. It looks as though her little dimple is closed as of now. She’s 6months old and it hasn’t caused an issue but she does have an upturned nose as well! I’ll update if anything changes!
Thank you all for this thread, it’s helped me feel more comfortable knowing that others have Vs with a snoot dimple too! 

meet Pickle 💕


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## Courtney0331

hello, how did the surgery go with Blue? My dog Gigi has the same issue but her hole is right on the tip of her nose. She’s on her 3rd round of antibiotics currently and it isn’t getting better.


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## Courtney0331

Mrmoose said:


> Our pup has it too! We just rescued her and she has a few interesting developmental abnormalities including a pretty decent underbite. It looks as though her little dimple is closed as of now. She’s 6months old and it hasn’t caused an issue but she does have an upturned nose as well! I’ll update if anything changes!
> Thank you all for this thread, it’s helped me feel more comfortable knowing that others have Vs with a snoot dimple too!
> 
> meet Pickle 💕
> View attachment 104269
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> View attachment 104268
> View attachment 104268
> View attachment 104269


Hi there, what helped pickle with her recovery? Did she have surgery?


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## Mrmoose

Courtney0331 said:


> Hi there, what helped pickle with her recovery? Did she have surgery?


hers healed quickly on its own when she was just a baby! So by the time we rescued her there were no complications!


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## Poppys Paw

I have a a similar situation with a hole where the top on the nose meets the fur. It has produced some pus bit what I have tried is to express the hole then a bit of fucidin cream. After a few times this has seemed to helped and is no longer producing any pus. I kinda came up with this on my own after trying to find help with the vizsla society of Ontario who failed to acknowledge me. All about the dogs I guess?🤷‍♂️


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