# General training advice?



## Claire (May 21, 2012)

Liesel is 16 months old now, and I'm starting to wonder if it's still just teenagery behaviour, or if my training methods are failing. 
I definitely get the feeling she understands everything I ask her to do, but doing these things is usually not a priority for her at all! Very often when we're on a walk and she picks up something I'd rather she didn't have, I'll give her the "drop it!" command, which she knows, but she'll carry on totally ignoring me. Because of this I've had her on the long lead for a lot of the time, for the past few weeks, but even when I can back up the "drop it" command with a tug on the lead... even if she's RIGHT beside me and I could just take the thing off her, she won't drop it. 
Similarly, when we come in from a walk and we come in through the door, I always go first, she comes in right after me - she knows this, I have been doing this since she was about 8 weeks old, but she still needs reminding every single time. Right after, sitting before I take off the lead - same story, every single time I have to say it twice. 

The reason I'm wondering if it's me is that I've been working on general obedience with her lately (sit, lie down, paw, other paw, that kind of thing) but when it comes to teaching her something NEW (she's learning 'roll over' at the moment) her patience has always been so lacking... I'll say it once or twice and illustrate what I mean, and she'll get antsy and frustrated to get the food out of my hand, she'll try paw, other paw.. she'll try throwing herself into a 'lie down', she'll 'speak'... it's like she just won't take the time to think about what I'm asking her to do. I thought this would get better with age, but I thought by now she might be a bit more patient and willing to learn.

She's never been particularly motivated by praise, I always heard Vizslas were super eager to please but that doesn't seem to be Liesel... I've tried praise, but it's hilarious - even if I'm giving her completely ridiculously enthusiastic praise, practically jumping up and down with glee and stroking her and saying 'GOOD GIIIIIIRL', she literally could not care less. She's looking around for the treat or toy. And the problem is with treats and toys, like I said before, she's just too frantic to get hold of them to concentrate on the task at hand.

Anyway, sorry for the long post I was just hoping someone could give me tips training Vizslas, particularly food motivated Vizslas like Liesel... or is it just teenage stubborn behaviour and she'll go back to listening to me in a few months??
Thanks a lot, here's a slightly blurry picture of Liesel trying to sleep with her head underneath my laptop...


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Dogs learn by trial and error.
She is motivated to get the treat, and doesn't quite have the trick down. It would be natural for her to try the things that got her the treat in the past.
As for as known commands.
She should have moved past getting a treat every time she performs one. Are you working with her on a leash? Its a lot easier to enforce a command that way. Its also easier to get them to down, if they are already on sit.
I would leash her and walk her on heel. Stop at some points and have her sit. If she doesn't want to, push her butt down. Then command heel and start walking. Work with her 10 minutes at a time and slowly increase the time. After a few days of doing it, add down after sit.
After you are through with the session, release her, and praise and treat.


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

I'm not there yet, but from reading other accounts on the forum it sounds like typical adolescent behavior. Stay consistent and try to be patient. 

I think offering behaviors is a desirable trait when training dogs. It shows that she understands she is in training mode. Some dogs give up instead. Look into clicker training. I think it's sometimes easier to capture a behavior incrementally with a clicker than to lure into a behavior with food.


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## Claire (May 21, 2012)

Both excellent ideas, thanks a lot. I think short, concentrated training sessions like that are just what she needs. We did actually HAVE a clicker in the early puppy days but I ended up always forgetting to use it so it was eventually abandoned, though the training obviously continued. I'll look into clicker training and maybe getting another one.
It's true, her offering the commands she's already learned is a good sign really, it's just the fact that she does them all at high speed with almost immediate frustration... "OH GOSH PLEASE PLEASE GIVE ME THE TREAT LOOK HOW ABOUT THIS, HOW ABOUT THIS, HOW ABOUT THIS". It'd be adorable if she didn't also frequently lash out with her paw trying to either offer her paw or perhaps knock the treat from my hand... the other day that paw hit me in the mouth and drew blood...


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## Claire (May 21, 2012)

Just went for a nice on-lead walk around the neighbourhood with her in the rain, now she's sitting directly in front of me like an angel, gazing at me with a rather wet head. It's amazing how calm she is generally, she's a very chilled out Vizsla... except when it comes to training sessions and meeting new people!


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I know it would be tough on your hand, might wear a glove. But teaching her the treat is not hers until your hand opens may help that. Most of us do it when the pups are young. We hold the treat in our hand, and let the pups figure out they can't get it. They mouth and paw until they figure out it doesn't work. Once they stop trying, the hand opens and the treat is given.
Just a small game, that teaches them to wait till the treat is offered.
I would also start working with her, where she has to stay on SIT, DOWN, or WHOA until released. It doesn't matter which one you pick. It sounds like she needs a little training in the waiting department, She's a want it now girl, and learning patience would be helpful to her.


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## Claire (May 21, 2012)

It's very true - I have actually done the 'wait' command with her literally since I got her as a puppy, the closing hand thing - but these days it just seems like she's never able to wait, like she can't help herself. My partner thinks waiting to do training sessions until she's properly tired out, like right after a long walk, would help, I think he might be right. I'll go back to working on 'wait' in general, too, it's such an important one for her to get the hang of. Thanks a lot.


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## Claire (May 21, 2012)

Seems like a great idea, I will try this. Thank you!


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

I did 14 months of general obedience with Boris - then started gun dog training. The one thing I have learnt from gun dog training is that we generally use far too many commands. Keep it simple. For example. In obedience you tell your dog to sit and then you might ask her to wait and walk away from the dog. Why have you used the command wait or stay? Did you ask your dog to get up? Your dog should sit until you release it or ask it to go retrieve or whatever. My dog has improved so much now I have reduced the number of commands I give him. Dogs also ready body language really well. 

Maybe you are trying to teach Liesel too much. Perhaps you need to consolidate your commands. I have found the fewer verbal commands the more my dog understands what is being asked of him. 

A few weeks ago I watched a dog jumping back and forth over a barbed wire fence, and the owner was screaming at the dog - I keep telling you not to jump that fence. I really wanted to ask her if her dog spoke English, as mine is fluent in French!!!!


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## tknafox2 (Apr 2, 2013)

I have been watching this guys videos, and applying some of the tactics, and I am having AMAZING results...
Just wanted to pass it along. PS I used Olives method for whistle training, and have had 100% total sucess. Even my Pearl/Bloodhound dog is responding... Thank You!!!!!!!!!!!

http://youtu.be/-JQLd8P2Opw


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## Claire (May 21, 2012)

Great, I'll have a watch of that video today.
hotmischief that's a really good point. I'll work on simplifying things with her, I'm a big fan of dogs reading body language (a lot of my commands for her are accompanied by hand signals) so I'll work on that with her too.


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