# Bringing New 8 Week Old Home July 26th, too much information on Puppy Food HELP!



## Schnitz85 (May 20, 2015)

So, I have done an immense amount of research on the entire puppy process to be as prepared as one can be for when the little girl makes her way home. I live in NYC, which obviously posed the first 'problem' as everyone told me with their opinion! We are very active and are not concerned with that. 

I have read reviews on every food, and every type has both negative and positive reviews! My puppy is currently on Pro Plan, but I have heard not such great things on it. I have heard great things about Blue Buffalo, but I am unsure for Vizsla puppies. Some people tell me to get large breed, others say that's not necessary. Should I keep her on Pro Plan? 

Also, she will be getting her 2nd round of shots the day after she comes home, can I take her outside to a place not really visited by other dogs? I want to start training her then and feel like keeping her in the apartment is going to make all of us go crazy!

Thank you in advance!


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## franzonaling (Jun 2, 2015)

Hi Schnitz85,

We have our little 9 week old on Blue Buffalo Puppy (the chicken and rice kind). It was what the breeder was feeding her, and she really loves it. Some of the vizsla books said to add warm water to it to add moisture, which I do occasionally and she goes crazy for it.

We had the same issue with being nervous about bringing out to socialize without her full shots, so we're avoiding dog parks and daycare right now. (We're right outside Boston) But we are doing city parks, hiking trails, town centers, etc. the vet and the puppy kindergarten trainer said to go at our own comfort level but after 2 rounds of shots she was pretty much fully covered.

Hope this helps!


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## Spy Car (Sep 3, 2014)

Blue Buffalo is in the middle of a major lawsuit over its deceptive labeling practices. Not an honest or ethical company IMO. 

Bill


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

Hey, gratz on the new babe! Who's the breeder? And what's the puppy's name?

ProPlan is pure crap (dogfoodadvisor.com) Everyone has different recommendations and thoughts on food, here's mine: I like Annamaet Encore 25%, had my puppy on it and did very well. And, it's really highly rated and held in high regard by the breeders I've spoken to.


I personally wouldn't let her off lead outside in unfamiliar places until the second round of shots, she's just not immune yet to Parvo and it's not worth the risk. Yes, a play date with a dog you know well is OK, and surely carrying her so she gets to see and experience the world and get socialized is fine, but putting her down on a city street..or a dog park!... seems unnecessarily risky. Some think it's OK and the benefits of socialization outweigh the risk of infection, but it's not their baby their talking about..


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## jean (Feb 17, 2015)

You mention that her second round of shots is at 8 weeks. I believe even "minimal" vaccination protocols don't really count shots before 8 weeks because the mother's antibodies are still too high. So in your mind, you might want to think of them as her first round.

We did take our puppy to places that were not frequented by strange dogs after the 2nd shots. We avoided public grass, but we did let him walk on the neighborhood roads (I know - soft surfaces are better for puppies - but it was a tradeoff) in our quiet neighborhood. We did puppy class and puppy socials, and carried him around a lot. We put him in the cart at home depot (not all allow dogs, but some do). I was seriously wishing for a wagon as he got bigger but was still not done with his shots. You have to balance the risk with the benefit for yourself. Personally, we didn't go to public parks (even non-dog parks), because there is enough wildlife here that there was too much random wildlife poo, which made me nervous. If you are in an apartment, you might make different choices than someone with a huge fenced yard.

I didn't do as much research on food yet as I did vaccinations, so I don't have much to say there.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

You can say proplan is crap all day long, but have you ever used it?
I have, along with a lot of other brands.
When you hunt a dog 6-7 months out of a year, sometimes twice in the same day, you want what works. In the search for better, I've tried a lot of other dog foods, but keep going back to Proplan.
The reasons are My dogs don't look any better on the new way of thinking, highly touted dog foods. What I do notice on the other foods, is less endurance. Endurance, and quicker recovery may not mean a lot to some owners, but it does to me.


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

Schnitz85, welcome to the forums!! 

It's been a long time since I raised a puppy, so I really don't feel qualified to advise you about that, other than to stress the importance of early socialization. Regarding dog food, you'll find many differing opinions here. What I do is rotate my dog through a list of several brands, giving him lots of variety, and I supplement his kibble with high quality protein. There are a few advantages to switching around like that. Your dog won't get bored with his food as easily. A particular nutrient that might be a little lacking in one brand could be more than adequate in the next brand. Also, your dog will be much less likely to develop a food allergy or touchy stomach. I've personally known four different dogs that lived very long and healthy lives eating only Purina Dog Chow from the grocery store. Just sayin' ... 

p.s. We will be awaiting some puppy pics!


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## Spy Car (Sep 3, 2014)

If one wants to maximize endurance and recovery it is important that (if feeding a commercial food) that the protein level be above 30% as that has been scientifically demonstrated to be the minimum level needed to minimize muscle tearing in working dogs and the amount needed to repair working muscle injuries. Less than 30% is sub-optimal.

Dogs best energy source (by far) is from burning fat. This has also been established as scientific fact. They are shaped by nature to metabolize fat well and efficiently. And the release of energy stays remarkably steady over time. Commercial pet food companies (because it suits the bottom line to formulate food with non-essential and unnatural levels of carbohydrates) try through marketing efforts convince consumers that carbs are a canines best fuel source. It is just not so.

Fats should be at about 20-22% of a formula. Where some are in the 12-16% range.

If one wants real endurance feeding a natural diet of diverse raw meats, fat, bones, organs, connective tissues, tripe, offal, and oily fish yields the best results. A V will go all day on real food.

Bill


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

Since the topic here is puppy food, things like building endurance isn't the goal...fuel for healthy growth and development is. Foods with much more than 30%+ protein run the risk of abnormal growth, it's too much for the needs of a puppy. The requirements for an adult and especially for hunting/extensive field work are dramatically different than what's needed at puppy hood. Life stage is important when looking at ingredients.

There's no doubt that Pro Plan is popular, and there's no doubt many will report their dogs excel on it. But on a biological level, the ingredients aren't as good as that in other foods...it's like putting a lot of salt on your food, you might like that and not notice the difference, but the (invisible) strain on your cardiovascular system has been well documented.


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## Watson (Sep 17, 2012)

I agree... Not a fan of pro plan at all. My pup came on it and unfortunately a lot of breeders feed it bc of the kickback. I did feed it for the first few months until my boy looked at it and then back at me like "nah not eating this sh*t anymore"!! It's loaded with unnecessary fillers. I spent about two years forking out a lot of $$ for commercial raw and recently switched over to raw/pmr. If you're up for it/learning about it - look into it. I guarantee your puppy will thrive on it, and I'm spending about the same per month as I would on a bag of kibble. 

I was in an apt for the first year of my pups life and I did a lot of training with him the first few weeks in social settings so that he'd be safe from any viruses he could pick up, but didn't miss out on the socialization period. At 10 weeks we started puppy classes which was great for him. We also met a couple of other puppies in our neighbourhood who we had play dates with. We potty trained outside, but he went on concrete for the first few weeks just to be safe. Good luck and don't forget to post pics!!


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## Spy Car (Sep 3, 2014)

Gingerling said:


> Since the topic here is puppy food, things like building endurance isn't the goal...fuel for healthy growth and development is. Foods with much more than 30%+ protein run the risk of abnormal growth, it's too much for the needs of a puppy. The requirements for an adult and especially for hunting/extensive field work are dramatically different than what's needed at puppy hood. Life stage is important when looking at ingredients.


While best practices suggest mitigating the growth rate of large sized breed is a good idea, the best way to do this is to restrict total calories, not to substitute non-essential calories from carbohydrates for essential calories from fats and protein.

30+ protein does not risk abnormal (or even maximal) growth if total calories are moderated. Carbohydrate calories just steal essential and optimal nutrients from the total daily caloric requirements.

It is actually the fat (not the protein) that is sometimes cut to about 16% in better "large breed" puppy formulas to keep protein high (well over 30) to raise the protein to calorie ratios.

Bill


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Sch - a future V owner - if you trust your breeder - go with what they feed 4 the first few mo's - happy healthy a great looking coat - u have 2 many things 2 worry about - that makes u a great owner - do NOT over think IT !!!!!! been there done that - just put the pup on your chest - the 1st form of socialization - the forum has so many great posts of when where & how ! balance it out - your pup - you already accept the responsibility - ENJOY the PUP !!!!!!!!


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

Spy said:


> Gingerling said:
> 
> 
> > Since the topic here is puppy food, things like building endurance isn't the goal...fuel for healthy growth and development is. Foods with much more than 30%+ protein run the risk of abnormal growth, it's too much for the needs of a puppy. The requirements for an adult and especially for hunting/extensive field work are dramatically different than what's needed at puppy hood. Life stage is important when looking at ingredients.
> ...


Right.

But for those who don't know food, and therefore don't know this information, there's a risk to make one's decision based on (high) numbers, and that could result in an imbalanced food that could cause problems.


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## Spy Car (Sep 3, 2014)

Gingerling said:


> Right.
> 
> But for those who don't know food, and therefore don't know this information, there's a risk to make one's decision based on (high) numbers, and that could result in an imbalanced food that could cause problems.


More danger I think in a person who doesn't know much about food picking a kibble in the mid-20s on protein, in the 12% fat range, and sky-high levels of grains, fillers, and other carbohydrates. That is the really imbalanced type food that Vizslas are not made to live on.

Personally, done with kibble. My V was raised on PMR style raw from 8 weeks. Now 14 months he's in stunning condition. I'd neverer willingly go back.

Bill


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## fullmanfamily (Oct 17, 2014)

Our puppy was on Eukanumba and we immediately switched her onto a higher quality food when we picked her up. We worked her into a high protein, no grain food which our vet recommended. She was on Fromm's Puppy for a while, probably until she was around 5-6 months. 

She never really liked the taste of Fromm's and it was a little bit of a struggle to get her to eat it consistently. 

We switched her over to Taste of the Wild around six months, this brand has no grain as well but has a little more meat/ fat content which she needed. She loves the taste too!!

We've had good luck with Taste of the Wild and there are a lot of fellow V's in this area that like Taste of the Wild as well. That being said, as you can see in this forum, you might have to play around with some different brands to make sure your dog likes the taste and it getting the nutritional add more fat to balance out the protein.


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## Schnitz85 (May 20, 2015)

Gingerling said:


> Spy said:
> 
> 
> > Gingerling said:
> ...


Wow, thanks to everyone who responded! There is so much information that was provided, it's all great stuff! 

To answer, the breeder is down in Virginia and he has been nothing short of amazing. He if giving weekly updates with videos, etc. 

As far as the food, it seems as though as long as you find something that has good ingredients and the dog likes it... you're golden!

And Gingerling, her name is going to be Ellie... With the big ears as a puppy my girlfriend(and my two nieces) said they resemble little elephants!


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

That's so cute, and Ellie is a wonderful name.


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## fullmanfamily (Oct 17, 2014)

Love that name!


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## Schnitz85 (May 20, 2015)

Hi everyone! Sorry for beating a dead horse, but even after seeing everyone's opinion and I was set on the trial and error way... I did more research and couldn't stop haha. 

Does anyone have an opinion on taste of the wild? I've read great reviews and was wondering if anyone feeds their V that? 

Also, should I begin the transition from pro-plan immediately at 8 weeks, or wait for adjustment to her new home?!

I had the wrong date originally, I pick her up next sunday(July 12) we are so excited!


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## mommaofalot (Apr 10, 2014)

Both my Vs began taste of the wild puppy as soon as they came home... I slowly added a little to the food each time so slowly took out the food they were on... so a couple days of 1/4 to what was recommended for them then wait 3 days... then 1/2 and 1/2 3 more days... then 3/4 taste of the wild... 3 days later full taste of the wild... Each V is different so keep an eye on their poop if they seem to get diarrhea then slow down the transfer. I had no issues with either pups. Hope this helps


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

TOTW: Dogfoodadvisor.com

Coming home is a big stress for puppies, as much as I dislike ProPlan, I'd still keep her on it for a while for the sake of consistency. When she seems to have settled in, slowly substitute the new food.


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