# aggressive or play?



## lovemyava (Mar 19, 2010)

My 7 month old V is still biting! We have tried everything from yelping to putting her in her kennel for a time out, nothing helps. She only bites when we tell her no, or wants something. For example today she was digging outside I told her "no" she went back to digging after I moved her from the spot so I said "no" again and she comes after me. Her tail is wagging through most of these episodes but she has a low growl and deep bark and runs circles around me snapping at me as she goes round and round. She jumps up and bites hands/arms/back/legs...anything and leaves some substantial bruising. It is impossible to grap her collar to put her in her kennel or get her attention during this because she bites really hard when you reach towards her. We go for a 2-5 mile walk a day and have a large fenced in yard for her to run off leash in. We are outside with her for at least 5-6 hours a day, she is rarley in her kennel. This happens at least twice a day, my husband and I just found out we are due to have a baby in December and I need this behavior to stop immediatley. Any ideas?


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## Crazy Kian (Aug 10, 2009)

Ours did the same.
After a few sessions with our new trainer he knew who was boss and woud stop doing it.

Good luck.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

That's a little bit too much biting. It doesn't seem "aggressive", but it is a habit that needs to be corrected. A dog should never put their teeth on a human. In puppies it is gently tolerated and corrected. She's past that point now.
A trick I picked up here was to use a spray bottle of water. Every time Gunnr used her teeth, she got squirted in the face, and sometimes chased back to her kennel being squirted.
It does need to be corrected though.


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## lovemyava (Mar 19, 2010)

Thanks for your input everyone! We have her signed up for a hunting obedience boot camp starting tomorrow. The gentelman doing the training said he would try to get this response from her and work on it, so hopefully. I am also going to try the spray bottle idea though, I think that might really work!!


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## Vespasia (Apr 19, 2010)

A question I have for you is: How much socialization does your dog have with other dogs?

Our V pup liked to bite a bit and was only moderately responsive to the tranditional "yelping" method of having her stop. She started playing off leash every night with a group of other dogs (mostly larger breeds ranging in age from 8 months to 4 years) and the biting essentially stopped. A group of well balanced dogs in your neightbourhood for your pup to play with will teach lots of proper manners, including not to bite.

It does sound like your pup is just playing a game with you though, so I wouldn't be worried about aggressive tendencies. It's a habit worth breaking though...you don't want your pup to try to play the game with a person or a child who might misunderstand what the dog is doing!


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## lovemyava (Mar 19, 2010)

she played with other pups during puppy obedience but she was always the dominant one doing the biting not getting bit. In the obedience school she is in now dogs are not allowed to have contact. We are worried about taking her to a dog park because of how she acted in puppy school and would hate for her to hurt another dog. She is at a dog hunting boot camp this week where she will be with one other dog and hopefully the trainer who, is also a behavioral therapist, thought he would be able to get the behavior stopped.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

I think I must be missing something here.
In your obediance class is she not allowed to have contact with the other dogs because of the nipping? or is no dog allowed to have contact with another due to the class structure? Either way it's ridiculous. I don't mean to be judgemental of the class, or instructor, but dogs are social animals and need contact with each other. During the course of the lessons it's completely understandable that each owner keeps their dog under control, I guess I'm just not understanding the scenario.
As for the dog park, I think you should take her. She is only 7 months old and probably a little socially retarded, not stupid but just not socially developed. It's an odds on bet that there will be a dog at the park that will put her in her place.
I'll be surprised if the hunting trainer she is at now doesn't turn her loose with an experienced older dog that will rock her socks a little bit. I know it sounds mean, but it's not. Sometimes the best therapy for a rambunctous youngster is to be with an "old hand" that doesn't take a lot of nonsense.

Your dog is still a puppy. She has developed an undesirable habit, but she is not a bad dog. 
She is looking to engage you in her playtime. Her running around and nipping and barking and such are how dogs play with each other. _*It is normal*_ at this point, so don't let anyone tell you different. My dogs knock the beejesus out of each other doing the same thing. They just needed to learn that we were not their playmates.
I've seen my dogs run each other into trees, flip each other upside down at a full run, run along side each other, while knocking each other in the back of the head with their off front paw while still biting and growling at each other.
Vizsla's play hard, very hard. They are a hunting breed that have the ability to course and bring down prey animals, hence sometimes a behavior that is considered undesirable, or mislabeled as a dominance tendency is in fact a genetic trait that they develop instinctively as hunting dogs. 
Doing figure eights around you, jumping up and nipping, crashing into your lower legs and tangling you up, are how they would bring down a small prey animal, like a deer for instance, and I have had all of these done to me during the years by my dogs.

She sounds like a heckuva dog to me.


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## doglover (Aug 4, 2009)

I just love Gunnr. He is always right.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

doglover said:


> I just love Gunnr. He is always right.


 Thank you for the compliment. Believe me though, I am definitely not always right.


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## madaboutvizslas (Nov 12, 2008)

Reading Gunnr's reply above reminded something that my V did in Jan. An aquaintance that I sometimes meet has a similar sized/aged V bitch as well. We took them down to the park for a run. We took my ball.

I threw the ball out and my friends V took off first. My V seeing this only went half way out for it and then stopped. When my friends V is running back mine runs in from an angle and totally shoulder charges it. It was very deliberate. A sort of "that is my ball and don't you forget it." They still played well after this.

It is very interesting learning the social interaction with dogs. It is very subtle and I don't think non-dog owners would see it at all.


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## Mercutio (Jan 18, 2010)

You're right - sometimes even dog owners don't really see what is going on with their dogs  Merc was quite, um, boisterous or perhaps rambunctious with other dogs as a pup and had to be put in his place a couple of times. Which I didn't mind because it generally just involved a woof and maybe a snap from an older dog but quite often the other dog-owner would punish their dog. When in reality Merc was just getting the telling off that he needed. And now he is great with other dogs and can tell which dog want to rough-house and which ones just want to have a little sniff and be on their way.

It is so interesting watching them.


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## lovemyava (Mar 19, 2010)

Hello Gunnr-
sorry I didn't reply to you I missed seeing that there were more responses to this. The obedience school instructor actually had a rule that no dogs were allowed to be within 4 feet of eachother, it was ridiculous and extremley difficult. Needless to say we stopped going the last two weeks because we got nothing out of the eight week class, not one thing was taught that was useful, or that we hadn't already been taught in the previous class. The hunting boot camp instructor did amazing things with her it was amazing, however when we got her home and tried the same techniques we got nothing. She is still doing the biting jumping thing and is now 10 months old. We finally broke down and got her a vibrating collar, we use this to gently remind her that was she is doing is unwanted, all it does is vibrate and she stops. We are hoping she won't have to wear this forever, but for now it seems to be doing the trick. 
We do need to socialize her more with dogs, one friend of ours has a vizsla that comes to play but her dog is 8 and doesn't really play anymore and Ava knocks her around pretty good. I feel like I have that bad child at daycare...no one will play with her because she is sooo rough. We are considering getting a second dog for her to play with all the time. The dog parks in our area are pretty up-tight. The times we have brought her people call their dogs away from Ava.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

lovemyava

It's too bad you don't live close enough I'd turn her loose with my girlz, but then she may learn some new tricks.  We have a 100lb lab next door and the girls get together with it and just pound on each other. Never biting or aggressive, but man are they rough with each other. They've broken off most of the low hanging branches on the bushes in the yard to about 22" off the ground. 

Somehow Vizslas earned a reputation for being a timid, meek dog that wouldn't get very far from their owner, hence the term "Velcro Dog". Nothing could be further from the truth though, and the term "Velcro" was first used to describe an undesirable trait of the breed. 
Compared to and English Pointer or setter, or a GSP which can be a 1/2 mile away at any given moment, and require a horse to keep up with it, having a Vizsla that stays in sight was "close working, or too close for some, hence "Velcro". If your dog wasn't 600 yards away, well it was too darned close and underfoot. :

I know a lot of folks on the forum use and like the dog parks for socializing, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that at all, but realize that there a many, many thousands of hunting dogs that have very little contact with other dogs, except during hunting season, and they are just fine. I wouldn't personally place as much emphasis on socializing as obediance training and just becoming a partner with your dog.
I actually try to keep my dogs away from other dogs. Having a "friendly" hunting dog isn't always well received by other hunters.
If I could, I would recommend that you go back to the hunting trainer again, but this time let she/he know that you are having problems reinforcing the lessons and have them "train"you too. There are so many subtleties and small cues associated with training that need to be learned to even begin to be successful. If she did well with trainer, stick with them.


Madaboutvizslas.

I had a dog ( Boone) do the same thing, and man did he knocked that other dog on it's keester. He could hit like a sledge hammer He also taught that dog in one lesson to not break for a retrieve until sent. That poor dog wouldn't move from the line unless Boone let him. His owner would send him on the fetch and he'd sit there and look at Boone. We had to put Boone in the truck to get on with the lesson.
He did the same thing with a bird once also when he was being harassed by another dog on the retrieve. He put the bird down and lit into the other dog, then calmly went back, got "his" bird, and brought it too me.


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

Gunnr said:


> Vizsla's play hard, very hard.


This just sums it up. From what I've witnessed at dog parks, our GTA V meets, etc. it's the plain old truth. 

I used to apologize to every dog owner I met when Mischa would start to get rambunctious. I know that we are lucky, because in our neighbourhood there are a LOT of dog owners. Most just shrug and know that if it were serious, their dogs would let us know by yelping or warning Mischa with a growl or bark. Others are relieved that there is a new dog in the hood that can match their dog's energy levels. Mischa's usually the last one standing though, wagging her tail and wanting to play more while others after a good hour and pooped. ;D

If you feel that it is too aggressive though, I'm sure the hunting boot camp behaviourist/trainer can help you out. Also, if your area's that bad, a second dog might not be a bad idea too!


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## Crazy Kian (Aug 10, 2009)

Mischa said:


> Mischa's usually the last one standing though, wagging her tail and wanting to play more while others after a good hour and pooped. ;D


Except when that Loonie Luna puts her on her back and in her place ;D
I can see Mischa in another year, she'll be a big girl and will plow all of them over


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## lovemyava (Mar 19, 2010)

Thanks everyone for your help! My husband is taking her out tonight to our friends uncle's house out in the country, he has 4 vizsla's and we are hoping they can teach her a thing or two. I am also going to call the hunting trainer again on Monday and see if we can have a couple more lessons with him! Again, this site has been a lifesaver at times, thank you everyone!!!


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