# Your thoughts on Cesar Millan's methods



## Grangeristhename (Jan 20, 2011)

Hello all,
I have been reading "Cesar's Way" by Cesar Millan. This is my first time raising a puppy and so I wanted to make sure I followed a guideline that works well. I was wondering if anyone has read the book and your thoughts. Even if you have not read it but do know Millan's methods, I was wondering if you guys agree with it. I agree that dominance is needed, but as far as I am reading, it seems as though you can't really enjoy your dog. Please contribute your thoughts on Millan's methods and if it worked for you and your Vizsla. IF not, what techniques worked with your Vizsla to make you AND your Vizsla happy together. Thank you!


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## Mercutio (Jan 18, 2010)

I haven’t read his books, only seen the TV series but based on that I think this book is much better: The Everything Dog Training and Tricks Book by Gerilyn J. Bielakiewicz. Don’t be put off by the title, it’s not simply about cute tricks but covers everything from when you bring a puppy home. Unfortunately for Merc, I only read it when he was 2.

I agree with you, some of Csear’s ideas make sense but he seems to use a lot of physical dominance methods, which I don’t think are a great idea. I’d rather my dog work with me than for me because he is scared of me. I also don’t always agree with how he interprets the dog’s body language but seeing as I don’t actually speak dog I guess we’ll never know who is right.

The positive reinforcement way works for me because it is more fun both for the dog and for me, it’s about building a relationship between you and your dog. It still involves setting boundaries for the dog, being consistent with the rules and all those sorts of things. The only difference is that you use only negative punishments (taking away the good things) not positive punishments (doing something he doesn’t like).


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## Chestersmum (Jun 21, 2010)

I've watched the TV series and read the books and seen him at a seminar in the UK.

Personally I don't have a problem with him but I do think people can not fully understand the methods he is using and go about the wrong way which can be dangerous.

We've raised our puppy using some of the Cesar methods and I think it has been a lifesaver BUT I have never had to use any dominance techniques i.e pinning. I think it's unnecessary. We've practiced just being calm and taking our time with things, being consistent and trying to think about how the doggy world works. Sure, this is simple dog training which is used everywhere but Cesar Milan's TV programmes and books allowed me to have direct access to this and plenty of time and resources to try and understand it. I've never had to restrain/pin down or 'touch' our v the way he does. 

I always find myself re-watching episodes just to remind me of some bits I have forgotten and can put back into practice 

I think in the wrong hands the Cesar methods can have bad consequences but combined with help from our obedience/gundog trainer it has really helped in bringing up our puppy. (at 11 months we still have a lot to learn!)


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

I like watching the "Dog Whisperer" but don't usually learn things that I can actually apply. If there is even the slightest hint of reprimand in my training techniques, Willie shuts down. By that I mean he sits down and hangs his head low and won't move. Training session over. So anything I do for training must be very upbeat and positive.


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## JillandDan (Sep 8, 2010)

I think he has effective methods for some things but I don't agree with his physical dominance either. Vs don't take well to that. We watch "It's Me or the Dog" and I find her methods alot more useful.


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## Shivangi (Jan 19, 2010)

So here's my problem with Cesar's methods. There's no uniformity to them. A lot of it seems to depend on how you make the dog 'feel'. I understand the philosophy, but it doesn't translate well to everyday training. I don't find it practical. 

We've raised our dog as per Victoria Stilwell's (Animal Planet, Its me or the Dog) training techniques and they've worked like a charm. I can confidently say that we (our V and us) have developed a very strong communication bond primarily because we used her training techniques.


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## BamBam (Feb 14, 2010)

I really like cesar milan and think his programme his great, although I do think he has a special way with dogs and it is hard for other people to use the same methods and have the same effect.
I think alot can be learnt from watching his programme - I always pick up tips and bits of info from them. I read 'How to train the perfect dog - through puppyhood and beyond' by Cesar Milan and this really helped me, especially with crate training.
I think what watching Cesar Milan taught me most is to have the confidence with dog training and my pup - the dog needs to know that you are confident in what you are doing.


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

I agree with BamBam. I think Cesar has a lot to offer. Victoria Stilwell does too. I have yet to find one trainer or book that works for me 100% of the time. Personally, I have found Joan Bailey's_ How to Help Gun Dogs Train Themselves_ very helpful. Victoria is a natural fit for many on this forum, if I may generalize, because V owners tend to recognize the soft nature of the breed; however, if I have an aggressive Rottweiler, I'd be inclined to call Cesar  I think it's just as important to feel comfortable with the methods you are using and the reasons behind it. I treat all the trainers like a buffet. Take what you want and leave what you don't. I came across a very old article on training hunting dogs, and it was chalk full of abusive, repugnant techniques; however, there was one paragraph re: recall that I found helpful. 

BTW, My mom gave my daughter_ Cesar's Rules _ when we got Pumpkin. The book features other trainers, their techniques, & the philosophy's behind them.


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

Yes his methods work. Why? Because he understands how a dog thinks. Don't forget, most of his work is with dogs that are extreme personalities or; have had very unusual experiences that have tainted their view of the world. He is like a really good physiotherapist for psychotic patients. So what he does may not be correlated to your raising a pup, especially a V.


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## jld640 (Sep 29, 2010)

I read Cesar's book and still enjoy his show. I also watch Victoria Stilwell. Other readings I recommend are Puppies for Dummies and any of the books from the Monks at New Skete.

I have found useful points in each of the techniques above. For instance, I love Cesar’s ‘tsst’ noise to interrupt Savannah’s whining; Victoria’s ‘aah’ sounds too much like a bark for my very vocal vizsla. I also found things that don’t work well for us. Pinning does not work for us, but neither does only positive reinforcement. 

My recommendation is to read multiple books, watch multiple TV shows and internet videos, and talk to multiple dog owners. Keep what you like, forget what doesn’t work. It may take more time on your part to sort through the techniques, but it was worth it for us.


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

I'm a big fan of Cesar. 
I am so amazed at how well he can read a dogs body language and know exactly how to approach any given case to earn a dogs trust so quickly.
And it always touches my heart when he uses dogs to pull another dog out of a rut.

It's pretty rare to come across a "red zone" vizsla, so watching him rehabilitate an aggressive dog may not apply directly, but I feel that his methods have helped us because it usually only takes one correction for an unwanted behaviour to disappear.


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## MaggieD (Jan 28, 2011)

I have read three of his books and enjoyed his shows very much. Unfortunately, I thought I would be really well prepared after all the reading, but turns out I was in for more than I thought when I got m crazy but cute V! Haha. His techniques such as walking, feeding and being your dogs leader are very effective. I really struggle with "claiming my space" like cesar is able to do though. I think he has a great gift, but like others on this have said i can only use some of his methods effectively. He does have gret tips though! 

My FAVORITE dog training book though is called The Other End of The Leash by Patricia Mcconnel. It is VERY informative on how to approach other dogs and how to read a dogs body language/understand/interact with your dogs. I recommend it to anyone interested in a good read.


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## MaggieD (Jan 28, 2011)

Also, he doees hve 2 vizsla episodes! One in season 2 or 3 about a V who is terrified of living in the city ( he was relocated) and in season 1 an aggressive V! Check them out


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## Ljilly28 (Mar 27, 2011)

I think Milan is a virtuoso trainer in terms of his innate good timing; he is a natural. I also think he is willing to tackle problems that many trainers won't touch. That being said, I think his methods are appalling and ham-fisted, though he has modified them greatly in response to a steady stream of criticism from the dog training community. One specific thing that is blatant is his narration( the dog is calm-submissive now) v the dog's actual body language( it is giving calming signals, cowering, tail tucked and frightened not calm). People would do better to work with a CPDT-KA local trainer or a good obedience club in their areas imo.


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

Ljilly28 said:


> I think Milan is a virtuoso trainer in terms of his innate good timing; he is a natural. I also think he is willing to tackle problems that many trainers won't touch. That being said, I think his methods are appalling and ham-fisted, though he has modified them greatly in response to a steady stream of criticism from the dog training community. One specific thing that is blatant is his narration( the dog is calm-submissive now) v the dog's actual body language( it is giving calming signals, cowering, tail tucked and frightened not calm). People would do better to work with a CPDT-KA local trainer or a good obedience club in their areas imo.


He doesn't do anything that another dog wouldn't do, to convey the message. Actually, he's a little less 'ham-fisted', cause he never bites a dog, even after they bite him. 
He's more often than not, the last step for people who've hired trainers and are ready to put the dog down.

In my opinion it is much better to be rough with a dog to undo years of bad behaviour, than to put it down because nobody else can teach it. 
I've never seen him do anything that I thought was cruel at all.


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## Ljilly28 (Mar 27, 2011)

I thinks dogs are very clear that humans are not other dogs. Dogs give each other so very many fine-tuned signals that we do not read from them or give to them no matter how gifted we are as trainers. The OP asked for thoughts, and those are mine on the subject of aversive methods in that trainers hands.


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## Farmology (Apr 30, 2011)

Most of Cesar's physical corrections appal me. His ability to pick up on "cues" is great but I often don't agree with his wild pack interpretation. He completely lost my respect on an episode involving tracheal obstruction (hanging) and trying to convince the owners that he was earning a dogs respect. I believe the fear factor techniques may become a fickle ticking time bomb. 

After all, these are domesticated animals and while some are certainly more tame than others, our dogs are distinctly different from their primitive roots. I am by no means one to "humanize" my pets but I rate Dr. Ian Dunbar and Sophia Yin far more accurate and reliable in behaviour direction than any of these "popular" TV stars!

Favorite resource: http://drsophiayin.com/


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

Cesar gives Kuddos & an "interview" with Ian Dunbar in his book Cesar's Rules


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## Ljilly28 (Mar 27, 2011)

Farmology said:


> Most of Cesar's physical corrections appal me. His ability to pick up on "cues" is great but I often don't agree with his wild pack interpretation. He completely lost my respect on an episode involving tracheal obstruction (hanging) and trying to convince the owners that he was earning a dogs respect. I believe the fear factor techniques may become a fickle ticking time bomb.
> 
> After all, these are domesticated animals and while some are certainly more tame than others, our dogs are distinctly different from their primitive roots. I am by no means one to "humanize" my pets but I rate Dr. Ian Dunbar and Sophia Yin far more accurate and reliable in behaviour direction than any of these "popular" TV stars!
> 
> Favorite resource: http://drsophiayin.com/


I agree with this completely. Well said.


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## Farmology (Apr 30, 2011)

kellygh said:


> Cesar gives Kuddos & an "interview" with Ian Dunbar in his book Cesar's Rules


Yes and Dr. Dunbar's participation was carefully considered due to the controversial methods Cesar uses (Dogstar Daily podcast discussion). Don't be fooled, this interview (and kuddos) was orchestrated to soften the public opinion.


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

Fooled? Pointing out that Cesar has a book with a contribution from Dr. Dunbar is a fact not endorsement. Nothing more, nothing less. Maybe it was done to soften public opinion, just like many might assume if Cesar was in a Dunbar book, it would be to illustrate Dr. Dunbar's technique is superior and more humane; however, based on Dr. Dunbar's following, I doubt a page would be given to Cesar. So, like you said, Cesar deserves kudos for reaching into territory where he is not liked or respected. I'm sure he learned something. Most interviews are orchestrated for public consumption on just about anything: parenting, teaching, dog training, politics etc. Even Dr. Dunbar states he never had his words so accurately portrayed as in Cesar's book. I believe in positive reinforcement & clicker as the foundation for training; however, just because there is a trainer I don't agree with doesn't mean they can not teach me something. I think it is shortsighted to think one method/technique is going to work 100% of the time with any breed, including Dr. Dunbar's. I have lots of dog training books, some of them advocate methods to train a hunter that I would consider inappropriate at best; however, there nestled on some random page may be a nugget of information I find useful. The point is to have an open mind. Take what you like & leave what you don't. Nothing foolish about that at all, IMO


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

I agree Caesar Millan is a superb trainer but for the average dog owner...I don't think we have the timing
needed to get the same results. And learning dog traning with a Vizsla could ruin this dog.
While I agree dogs are animals and not human, Vs are sensitive and smart enough.

Found this on a site: http://beyondcesarmillan.weebly.com/dr-patricia-khuly.html

Aversive Tactics that Increase Agression[/color]

Hitting or kicking the dog- increases in 41% of dogs
Growling at the dog- 41%
Forcing the dog to release an item from its mouth- 38%
Alpha roll (force dog on its back) - 31%
Dominance down (force the dog on its side)- 29%
Grabbing the jowls or scruff- 26%
Staring the dog down until it looks away- 30%
Spraying the dog with spray bottle- 20%
Yelling “no”- 15%
Forced exposure/ flooding techniques - 12%


Positive counterpart that may lead to aggression:[/color]

Exchange an item for an item that's in his mouth instead of forcing the item out- 6%
Training the dog to sit for everything it wants- 2%
Rewarding the dog for eye contact- 2%
Reward the dog for “watch me”- 0%

This link is useful: http://beyondcesarmillan.weebly.com/dr-patricia-khuly.html


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

The above statistics require allot of qualifying info that is not stated. I don't believe for one minute; that properly trained sample size test group of household dogs (family pets) would yield those stats. I would think that most of the tactics listed in the first group would produce fearfull dogs!


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## Ljilly28 (Mar 27, 2011)

It would be interesting to observe hours and hours of "dog whispering" off camera, in private moments over the long haul. Those shows are carefully edited.


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## AfroViz (Jun 26, 2011)

I think Cesar provides a very good framework for eroding dominance and fear based aggression issues in an already dangerous dog. He's the last chance saloon for a dog that other trainers might recommend for euthanasia. When the choice is between the "touch" and death there's really no choice at all, is there? ???

However...I don't think his ideas apply to the average household pet. The average socialized dog isn't waging a war for dominance with its owner and isn't dangerous. The average dog will do just fine with consistent training and love.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

*Defending a good man *​
Posted July 5, 2009 on my blog: http://redbirddog.blogspot.com

In my two years of Vizsla ownership I have heard many times disagreements that respected dog owners have with Cesar Millan.

Today and yesterday on the Yahoo group VizslaTalk, there was a drive to have a petition signed against a vendor using him as their spokesman.

Cesar's Way was one of the first "how to understand my Vizsla" books that I read, and I truly enjoyed it.

Tonight I opened the book again and went to the foreword by Martin Deeley - President, International Association of Canine Professionals (at the time of the publication of the book).

His opening paragraph hit home with me then and still does.

"Today, even though we have more books, more help, more training gadgets, and definitely more treats, there are more badly behaved dogs than ever before. We have the means to help us achieve well-behaved dogs, yet we lack sufficient understanding of our dogs' natures. While most of us are well-intentioned and loving dog owners, this lack of understanding can create many common dog problems. Put simply, dogs are not small humans. They do not think like humans, act like humans, or see the world in the same way as humans. Dogs are dogs, and we need to respect them as dogs. We do them a huge disservice by treating them like humans and thus create many of the bad behaviors we see today."

This is the part I loved:

"From the first moment I saw Cesar Millan work with dogs on his show Dog Whisperer, I knew he understood this concept. He is a unique man who is not afraid to be politically incorrect, who talks about leadership with dogs and is not afraid to give and show a correction when a dog requires it."

I'm sure there are methods he uses that Chloe and Bailey will never need to see because they are well-mannered and, I hope, well-trained dogs. But knowledge that works is what I was and am after. His advice, for the most part, rings true for me.


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## bolanga84 (Apr 29, 2009)

As Vizsla owners we don't see the same cases that cesar sees. He doesn't hold down a dog for no reason, if it attacks him then he does. When u don't experience it first hand, its easy to say he's being cruel. If u really pay attention to dogs and how they interact with each other, you see that he's 100% correct and his practices are right. Using his theories my V can walk with me not pulling, can completely ignore another dog if I wish, (it gets annoying having to stop every minute saying hi to other dogs) and he never runs away (not even after squirrels)


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