# Neutering... an endocrine view



## gabril1 (Jan 20, 2013)

So today I feel absolutely guilty. 

I am a neuroscience major graduating this year and today was the first day of classes of the year. Today's topic in my behavioral endocrinology class at Johns Hopkins was CASTRATION. The lack of testosterone has huge morphological, physiological and behavioral effects in a developing animal. Reduction of aggressive behaviors is one of the known advantages and its great! But we are told at the vet that there are no morphological changes in the dog if its neutered. But, there are changes in many studied animals INCLUDING humans, how can we think its any different in dogs? I'm not only talking about conformation here. I'm talking about joint and bone health in the long run. Waiting until the dog is fully developed (1.5 or 2 years) to do it because of the reduced risks of prostate cancer and whatnot is the way to go. Milo was neutered at 8 months and I did it because he wasn't accepted in daycare otherwise and if he didn't go to daycare he would be stuck at home alone for 10 hours 2 days a week and I thought that was unfair. But today I feel even worse than I did before. 

I know its a difficult decision for all of us but if you can... please wait.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

gabril1, my wife and I spayed Chloe at 6 months old because "that is what the Vet said was best." Five years later and quite a bit of study have changed that idea. One of the main subjects I discuss on my blog when I find more information in this evolving subject. Your next dog will benefit from your research as Bailey did for us.

Below is some more research.

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2011/10/why-not-to-spayneutered-your-vizsla.html

Excerpt from above post:
"Behavioral characteristics of intact male and female dogs were compared with those of four groups of neutered dogs: those neutered at or before 6 months, between 7 and 12 months, between 13 and 18 months, and after 18 months. Our data showed that the behavior of neutered dogs was significantly different from that of intact dogs in ways that contradict the prevailing view. Among the findings, neutered dogs were more aggressive, fearful, excitable, and less trainable than intact dogs.

In addition, we measured eight individual bone lengths plus the height of 202 agility competition dogs to determine whether gonadectomy affected bone lengths. Preliminary analysis revealed 

significant differences in bone growth between the intact and neutered groups.
These findings strongly support the need for an immediate reevaluation of the current recommendation to spay or neuter dogs to prevent or treat behavior problems, and an equally pressing need to more fully examine the wide range of physical effects of spaying and neutering pet dogs."

Summary
The above data is just a small sample of the significant data that were determined in this study. By using large a sample of dogs than any used previously to examine behavior in dogs, we found significant correlations between neutering dogs and increases in aggression, fear and anxiety, and excitability, regardless of the age at which the dog was neutered.

There were also significant correlations between neutering and decreases in trainability and responsiveness to cues. 
The other three behavioral categories examined (miscellaneous behavior problems, attachment and attention-seeking behavior, and separation-related behavior) showed some association with neutering, but these differed more substantially depending on the age at which the dog was neutered. 
The overall trend seen in all these behavioral data was that the earlier the dog was neutered, the more negative the effect on the behavior. A difference in bone length was found between neutered and intact dogs, suggesting that neutering has an effect on bone growth, which may be related to other orthopedic effects documented in the literature. 

Examination of changes in bone length of gonadectomized dogs is continuing


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## CatK (May 29, 2013)

Thanks for this information. We knew we'd wait for at least 18 months before neutering our boy but it's nice to have all this information to back our decision up if we come across a pushy vet (not that ours seems that way yet, he's lovely)!


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## Főnix (Feb 3, 2013)

I've spent the last couple of hours reading up on when/if to neuter and wanted to thank everybody for all the great information posted and linked to on the forum. 

One question I still have is whether there are health benefits to leaving them intact into adulthood. The articles against early neutering encourage waiting until 12 months, 18 months, or 2 years, but I can't find anything that talks about whether there will be health/behavioral differences between a dog neutered at 2 years and an intact dog. After they're finished developing does it not matter?

We decided when we got him to neuter at 2 years and while keeping him intact is sometimes inconvenient (can't take him to daycare, unwanted attention, etc.) it's certainly not impossible.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I have been around a lot of dogs that are intact and haven't seen any problems with them.
I believe all the spay and neutering is just a response to irresponsible owners, that don't separate the females from males when their in heat. At least that's how it started.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/is...ks-benefits-spay-neuter-your-dog_20685-1.html

Just more food for thought. If you get them to 2 years old you have done well in this society. 
Bailey, now 5, is intact and even though he likes the ladies, he is under my control all the time. 
On some walks with intact females that have just come out of season, I may need to remind him he doesn't have free reign. ??? I have put him on leash so he leaves the poor girl alone.
His is more licking and chewing on their ears than anything further. He courts them well.
RBD


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## lilyloo (Jun 20, 2012)

We were planning on waiting until Ruby is 2, but now that she's 17 months and still hasn't had a heat cycle, we're going to wait till her first heat even if it's after she's 2. 

This past week we dog-sat an intact male pitbull (double potential for stereotypes, there!) who is the same age as Ruby. We had him for 5 nights and him and our girl got along wonderfully. He was never aggressive towards her or us and didn't even attempt to mount her. In fact, our submissive girl was the one who pinned and dominated him in a playful manner a few times!


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## CrazyCash (Jul 12, 2012)

Lilyloo - if some hanky panky had gone on, I can tell you from experience that vizsla / pit mixes are cute


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## solefald (May 16, 2013)

Heh, I just woke up to an email reminder from the vet that we have an appointment setup to neuter Dre next month. How nice of them to schedule that without telling me. 

This is after I told them no less than 6 times that I will not neuter him until he is at least a year and a half.... Or ever.


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## Gingerbread (Aug 7, 2013)

We don't plan to neuter our 2 intact males ever. I know that soldiers that have suffered from traumatic orchidectomy (losing their bits) need to be put onto testosterone replacement therapy immediately (even whilst still in intensive care) otherwise the hormone imbalance is detrimental to their health, mood and general well being - clearly for humans the effect on sexual drive etc is a huge factor in relationships and this might not be a wanted or required attribute in your dog, but it does affect bone density and muscle mass as well, and I can't see how that would be good for any dog.


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

Here is a picture of Chase and Miles recently. We waited until barrel chest came in. You can see the difference between Miles' chest and Chase's chest. Chase is nearing the age where many vets recommend neutering, which would surely change his physique and he likely wouldn't develop many of the distinguishing male characteristics and his chest likely would stay this frame.

Chase's build is different than Miles. Our breeder think that because he is naturally a bit lankier than Miles is, that we will need to wait longer to neuter him to be sure his hips and body develop properly, especially because I trail run long distances.


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## CatK (May 29, 2013)

Absolutely gorgeous dogs MM.


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