# A teenager already?What?When did that happen?



## LaVidaLoca

Hia!

Yeah my pup is 8 month old now and we were more than happy to pass this sharky '_I-nipp-all-I-can-get_'-stage and and the hardcore chewing time when she was teething ( left nice Vizsla art on our antique furniture  ) and now another challenging time....and I guess this will be the longest of the Vizsla - development stages.... :

I just came back from our morning walk and on a field where I let her off leash. First she was sniffing around but when she saw a dog from our doggy group - there was no chance to get her back. She run towards this dog ( and this dog really doesn't want to play with my overexcited pup ) was running around her, trying to get her into a play. My presence was completely ignored.  I couldn't grab her on her collar, she was running away from me...running around the owners of the other dog, jumped even on the wife  ( luckily the husband was holding the baby ) , then running in bigger circles, nearly jumped on another pedestrian who was passing by.... 
I could only distract her by walking in the opposite direction. 
First she followed, then from a distance she saw a Golden Retriever who was on leash. Run towards this dog and started to run barking in circles around this dog ... You can imagine - my presence was non-excisting for her. At least, she stood for checking where I was and came running towards me. I had to wait few minutes to calm her down and to wait for an opportunity to grab her on her collar. Puuuuh...THAT was soooo embarrassing. 
I'm working with a good trainer and when he's with us - she's really PERFECT and she knows how to behave. When she's alone with me nearly same...but not like 100% with the trainer. But she knows every command.

I do training with her every day but I think I won't let her off leash too often in the upcoming time and focus more on a strict HEEL and leash training.
At home I have to repeat my commands all the time and even I'm quite strict - she's definitely testing the boundaries. 
I have constantly to say OFF and PLACE all the time ??? and she's trying to creep from her place .... ??? when she has to stay there.

When I'm angry and saying PLACE she will first have a quick run away from me around the corner and while I'm waiting with pointing on her place to come her by - she will do it submissively after few seconds.

Another thing is - she's checking in the house what she can get and hold in her mouth. She has quite few toys but looking for underwear, towels , toilet paper, makeup brushes, socks, towels, shoes is much more interesting. She knows that she's not allowed to take these kind of items but she will do it again and again. 
When she can't reach to something she will do counter surfing to get what she wants. 
When she disappears and it's quiet - I know that she's searching for something or looking into the laundry basket. I have to keep an eye on her all the time. 

...uuh while I was typing this I had to give the PLACE command and she run away and stopped in the middle of the room. I repeated my command with a firm voice and pointed on her place and waited. She did a cat's arched back and barked at me and looked me into the eyes. ( Next time I have to record it ;D) 
It took a minute until she realized that I didn't make a joke and I was still pointing on her pillow. Finally she went slowly! to her place. 
This is a everyday 100times issue at the moment.... and I have a strong-minded pup.... (_dear God, throw some patience from heaven please .... )_

Anyone going through teenage stage?? I think I need to hear again, that I'm not the only one who's get challenged by a teenage pup....

Thanks and Cheers everyone!


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## CrazyCash

Hmm - sounds familiar . My guy Cash is about 10 months old and he can be stubborn and test my patience at times. He's constantly trying to see what he can get away with. He also talks back at times when I correct him - he starts with a little whine and tries a bark, bark, bark - inwardly it makes me laugh because I will stand my ground and he will eventually look down, let out a big sigh and then do as he's told, but he pouts like a little baby the whole time to let me know he's unhappy.

He can definitely push my buttons at times and I'll admit that I've lost my cool a couple of times, but honestly yelling at him only seems to amp him up a little bit more. Silently holding your ground and not repeatedly saying the command works much better. Saying the command once (maybe twice) and then waiting silently until he obeys seems to work the best.

One more thing - I've also had trouble with Cash not coming back to me when called. I taught him the command "touch", basically I hold my hand out and say "touch" and then he gets a treat when he touches my hand with his nose. I worked on this first in the house and once he had that down, we started working on it in the backyard. I have to say that now it works for just about anything (and he doesn't always get a treat any more). If he's being stubborn about not wanting to do something, I will use the touch command and 9 times out of 10 he comes right to me. I don't know if that helps, but it might be worth a try. 

Oh and one more thing - he absolutely hates being ignored. If he's being naughty I will walk away from him and not look at him or touch him - then I just sit back and watch him try to get my attention. He only gets attention after he lays down and is quiet.


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## LaVidaLoca

CrazyCash,

thanks for sharing your experience and your suggestions!!

Fact is, my dog doesn't care about treats when seeing another dog. So I know for sure, this "Touch" think won't work. I don't take any treats anymore with me while going out with the dog. She has to work for me and she will get something else instead of a treat...Gentle words, petting her, a stick or throwing a ball.

There are times when she's really good and times when it can be quite frustrating. 

But today I felt so bad, because she jumped on someone who usually holds a baby ( and jumped on her when she was pregnant ) and jumped on a pedestrian. Here all dogs must be on leash everywhere and most Asian people are scared by big dogs. So I have to have a well obedient dog in a city. Like I said, mostly she is and she's doing fine for her age but as soon as she sees other dogs - gone.

Today showed me that she doesn't respect me as her leader. I have to find the leak in my strictness . I mean I spent everyday with her since we have her and I'm training her from day 1 everyday + a good trainer.... some things must change. 

I asked myself if the situation today would have been different with an ecollar. 
I had no chance to interrupt her from what she was doing. She was so fast ( an extremely fast Vizsla ) , I couldn't grab her and give her a tag. So when she came after the second escape to the other dog - I could only put her on leash and walk heel. But I'm not sure if she could connect one and one together. I guess no. It wouldn't have made sense to give her a tag after she came to me.

I'm still on the side of 'no ecollar' but today in this situation - to be honest -I wasn't concerned anymore :-[

I 'm not sure if this is the stage or if this becomes a habit.


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## harrigab

LVL, it might be worth getting someone to make short vid when you let her off her lead/leash, then run through it with your trainer as he/she may see something that you're doing different ie body language, tone of voice etc.


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## LaVidaLoca

Harrigab,

thanks for that idea, but usually I'm alone on my walks and I don't carry my iphone with me. To be honest, I was so worried about her jumping on people that it would have been ridiculous to take out the mobile and making a video while she had her crazy minutes.

I think I did right by not chasing her. When I realized that calling or going away didn't distract her - I started to go farer away which normally she doesn't like and follows me but today she was obsessed or controlled by aliens...


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## harrigab

when these situations arise are you managing to keep calm yourself?, maybe pup thinks she's gonna get chastised for not obeying immediately.


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## LaVidaLoca

Good thought! Yes I manage to keep calm because I know these kind of situations and calling a dog in that situation is helpless so I tried only to grab her before she jumps on the husband with the baby in the arm.

I also tried to distract her and make her curious about something else ( e.g. with a stick or scratching on the ground and pretend there is something ) which can work as well ( extremely curious dog ) but not today :-[

I walked away and waited her to recognize my going-away which at the end worked and she came but I couldn't grab her , she was still in a playful chasing mode. And then this Golden Retriever came along and she run again. She came back again after she run her circles around that dog and I stood quietly in the grass and waited for an opportunity to grab her by the collar.


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## Ozkar

Please take this as well intended and in no way meant to be derogatory towards you, especially being as our pups are related. But something you wrote sent out warning messages.

Paraphrased..... "She does it 100% for the trainer and for you when the trainer is present, but lets you down occasionally when you are out without the trainer."


You say she knows the commands so the only difference is YOU!   Pup knows she can get away with it on you. She knows when the trainer is there, flexibility is not an option..... whereas, with you, she knows it's kinda flexible   

I would toughen up a bit on things. Doorway entries and exits, food and love dispensing, plays and activities all need to be earnt and earnt everytime, without fail, no exceptions. This I am confident will return her to her to her obedient old self. 

Remember though, they test boundaries continually throughout their lives, just some ages and stages more than others. So it's about (Please don;t get bored with hearing this.... it is really true...) Consistency and repetition!!!


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## LaVidaLoca

Hey Ozkar,

you made the point. You're absolutely right in what you wrote and I know that and I'm trying to figure out where the lack of strictness in my training is or in general. It's already like in a boot camp here and I'm so strict and never to lazy to stand up and to repeat a command or be consequent. Now that I know that she can be more submissive and obedient with my trainer even more.
She's not dominant but extremely stubborn and strong-minded in her personality. I even knew that when I saw her on a photo for the first time. . I said to my husband " Looks like someone knows what she wants" and she really turned out that way. 
I thought I have a good balance of playtime/ cuddle time and training/serious tone. Must be somewhere a lack in my behaviour ??? and I'm more than willing to find it out and make it better.


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## Ozkar

If the trainer can do it, then so can you!!! ;D


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## threefsh

We're going thru the dreaded teenage phase as well. Riley is 11 months and loves to challenge me or try to ignore my commands. I discovered something recently that has made a huge difference. When you give your pup a command, do you say it as a question or as a command? I realized I was saying things in a way that sounded like a bit of a question & Riley could hear it in my voice! I've had to become much more stern and authoritative with her, but it seems to be working.


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## texasred

The teen stage can be trying, but it passes just like the puppy stage. Try to have the same normal,calm, firm voice for all commands.
My husband and daughter have a problem with the dogs not obeying them in the same manner that they do with me.
Things I catch them doing wrong.
sit, sit, SIT / not sit and have the dog do it.
Changing their voice, the dog learns I don't have to do it until I hear the firm tone.
Changing a one word command into a full sentence.
My daughters worst is Lucy, Lucy, Lucy anytime where on runs. Lucy will come in willy nilly and let things catch her attention on the way, and then start running again. Lucy Lucy Lucy is not a command.
I call her in with Lucy Here . She comes directly to me. Stands by my side until I tap her side to release her to run again. This was all taught on a check cord, then changed over to a ecollar when she hit the teenage stage.
Its because Here means all the way to me every time, and you can't leave until I release you.
Lucy does wear an ecollar on every run, but it been such a long time since she has had to be nicked with it. I don't even remember when the last time it was used.
Sometimes I think we are harder to train than the dogs.
Keep going to the trainer and ask him to correct you every time he sees you do anything slightly wrong. This helped me considerably. Small things mean a big difference in a dogs eyes.


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## SerCopper

I have had a similiar experience with Copper when letting him off leash, he is so excited he simply forgets his manners. 

I have found that using a whistle (2 sharp tweets) in replace of the verbal command has helped with this greatly as it removes the differences in tone when I give the command and keeps it consistent. 

Also if you don't think she is going to come and you stand there saying come over and over again it is pointless. I give the command once...if he doesn't listen I go get him.


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## harrigab

Ozkar said:


> If the trainer can do it, then so can you!!! ;D


that's what I was trying to suggest mate, with the vid idea, to try and analyse where things are going different with trainer and LVL


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## adrino

Some of you had took the words out of my mouth!!!

Elza just hit 9 months yesterday and knowing the teenage stage we have upped the training a month or so ago. She has been responding so well then one day (this Monday) she has decided to do what she wants. 

We went out for a nice walk to our usual park and almost done with it when she all of a sudden took off to some people sitting on the grass quite far away from us. It was out of the blue, we were playing fetch with her favourite ball and she was brilliant keep bringing it back. But then after one catch she carried on running and took off to these people. She totally ignored my call and after that my partners call, then I used the whistle and she ignored that too.  Until then the whistle recall was 100%. My partner had to go and get her, lucky those people were ok with it. But I was not happy! 
Then the next day she did it again on my walk, she was actually playing quite happily with another dog then again out of the blue she took off over a little slope where I couldn't see her. I run after her fearing the worst that she found some picknickers. I have called her back and blew the whistle but total ignorance from her. She snatched the sandwich out of the woman's hand right in front if my nose! Then she run away from me and I know she would have carried on if I try to go after her. I grabbed her collar when she got back to the picknickers for more. Short leash then a fast walk back home! Staying calm in that situation is almost impossible. 
On any training session with me her recall is 100%. Inside or outside doesn't matter. I have done even more training since and the recall is great every time. 

I do wonder where is this snatching food coming from. She never does anything like that at home. We do not give her human food unless she finds it herself on walks and I cannot stop her. 

I know she's pushing it and that's why we've been doing loads of training but sts she just does these things without any sign of desobedience! 

If any of you have some advice for me I'm more than happy to take it in!!! 

Ps I'm really sorry for the long post... :-X


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## harrigab

adrino said:


> Some of you had took the words out of my mouth!!!
> 
> Elza just hit 9 months yesterday and knowing the teenage stage we have upped the training a month or so ago. She has been responding so well then one day (this Monday) she has decided to do what she wants.
> 
> We went out for a nice walk to our usual park and almost done with it when she all of a sudden took off to some people sitting on the grass quite far away from us. It was out of the blue, we were playing fetch with her favourite ball and she was brilliant keep bringing it back. But then after one catch she carried on running and took off to these people. She totally ignored my call and after that my partners call, then I used the whistle and she ignored that too.  Until then the whistle recall was 100%. My partner had to go and get her, lucky those people were ok with it. But I was not happy!
> Then the next day she did it again on my walk, she was actually playing quite happily with another dog then again out of the blue she took off over a little slope where I couldn't see her. I run after her fearing the worst that she found some picknickers. I have called her back and blew the whistle but total ignorance from her. She snatched the sandwich out of the woman's hand right in front if my nose! Then she run away from me and I know she would have carried on if I try to go after her. I grabbed her collar when she got back to the picknickers for more. Short leash then a fast walk back home! Staying calm in that situation is almost impossible.
> On any training session with me her recall is 100%. Inside or outside doesn't matter. I have done even more training since and the recall is great every time.
> 
> _*I do wonder where is this snatching food coming from. She never does anything like that at home.*_ We do not give her human food unless she finds it herself on walks and I cannot stop her.
> 
> I know she's pushing it and that's why we've been doing loads of training but sts she just does these things without any sign of desobedience!
> 
> If any of you have some advice for me I'm more than happy to take it in!!!
> 
> Ps I'm really sorry for the long post... :-X


in house /home is a controlled environment, easy to control in that situation, distractions outside the home are a different kettle of fish and (imo) need a different approach, (an approach that i'd like to find out how to master i hasten to add!)


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## city_dog

O.M.G. you described my house to a TEE! There have been a handful of days over the last 6 weeks that I would have gladly handed the leash to ANYONE walking by and said "have fun". Sammy is almost 8 months, but this started before she was 6 months old... *sigh*

The indignant behaviour is the part that kills me. I tell her "place" while I go upstairs to switch over laundry... she follows me up the stairs. I stand at the top of the steps and say PLACE and point to her bed, she cocks her head like she doesn't understand. I step down one step and she runs to her bed and lies on it.
Or recently it's been going in the kitchen. She KNOWS she's not allowed in there. Been a rule since day 1. I say OUT and she goes around the Island and peeks at me from the other side, as if to say "*&^% you, I'm coming in anyways".
Scavenging under the kitchen table (which drives me CRAZY). 
Today, we were walking to my parent's house, and you have to ride a Ferry. Sitting in the cabin, she wanted to jump in the windows to hunt flies. I asked her to sit probably 3 times before she SWATTED me with her paw like a cat and barked at me.
I was absolutely taken aback by that. 
I like to take her everywhere, to keep her well socialized - at my oldest son's soccer games she's started whining and barking if I ask her to "down & stay". Like it's just killing her to stay still for 10 minutes.
And it's like she's forgotten her recall, and she's on springs again. Looks like she's sitting pretty so you can pet her, but as soon as you bend over to pet her - BAM!!! she head butts you. What's worse? She has begun body checking our legs again when she's out for her off-leash runs (which are now on a 30' training leash again due to the awful recall ability - back to basics)
It doesn't seem to matter how much exercise she gets, she never calms down. Our training seems like such hard work when it used to be fun. "Watch me" has turned into "Sam, Sammy, SAM, SAM!!!" 
I'm so happy that I'm not the only one that's experiencing this.... gives me that bit of inspiration to carry on... haha.
She's so smart... that's the problem haha 

It's a good thing she's cute.


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## redbirddog

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2009/09/horny-male-vizsla.html

Ah, the teenage years. How soon we forget (thankfully!)

Picture expressing how Bailey thought of me giving him commands during the period before the training collar and boot camp.

RBD


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## datacan

Love these pictures.
I have one also, stored somewhere, Sam was 6 months old. 
Our dogs only got better with time. 
I read so much about the teenage years :-\ but nothing happens. He is much more considerate @ 17 months than he was @ 6.


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## Ozkar

city_dog said:


> O.M.G. you described my house to a TEE! There have been a handful of days over the last 6 weeks that I would have gladly handed the leash to ANYONE walking by and said "have fun". Sammy is almost 8 months, but this started before she was 6 months old... *sigh*
> 
> The indignant behaviour is the part that kills me. I tell her "place" while I go upstairs to switch over laundry... she follows me up the stairs. I stand at the top of the steps and say PLACE and point to her bed, she cocks her head like she doesn't understand. I step down one step and she runs to her bed and lies on it.
> Or recently it's been going in the kitchen. She KNOWS she's not allowed in there. Been a rule since day 1. I say OUT and she goes around the Island and peeks at me from the other side, as if to say "*&^% you, I'm coming in anyways".
> Scavenging under the kitchen table (which drives me CRAZY).
> Today, we were walking to my parent's house, and you have to ride a Ferry. Sitting in the cabin, she wanted to jump in the windows to hunt flies. I asked her to sit probably 3 times before she SWATTED me with her paw like a cat and barked at me.
> I was absolutely taken aback by that.
> I like to take her everywhere, to keep her well socialized - at my oldest son's soccer games she's started whining and barking if I ask her to "down & stay". Like it's just killing her to stay still for 10 minutes.
> And it's like she's forgotten her recall, and she's on springs again. Looks like she's sitting pretty so you can pet her, but as soon as you bend over to pet her - BAM!!! she head butts you. What's worse? She has begun body checking our legs again when she's out for her off-leash runs (which are now on a 30' training leash again due to the awful recall ability - back to basics)
> It doesn't seem to matter how much exercise she gets, she never calms down. Our training seems like such hard work when it used to be fun. "Watch me" has turned into "Sam, Sammy, SAM, SAM!!!"
> I'm so happy that I'm not the only one that's experiencing this.... gives me that bit of inspiration to carry on... haha.
> She's so smart... that's the problem haha
> 
> It's a good thing she's cute.


That has to be one of the most adorable pics I think I've seen......


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