# Bad Mama!!



## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

So, Oso and I had our first fight (and hopefully our last).

I hate to even put it in behavioral problems because I feel like it was all my fault. I played with Oso for a long time and he was very tired. Than we did some training on counter surfing, except off the sofa. I put some of his toys on the ground and some on the sofa and a tiny piece of chicken on the sofa as well. When he played with a toy on the ground I clicked and gave him lots of chicken, if he touched a toy on the sofa, he went in his crate for about 30 seconds. 

Poor little Oso used a lot of brain energy doing this (it was the first time). He only went in his crate 2x, but didn't understand what he was supposed to do instead. He was tired, so I got his food together and thought, "hey, since he's so tired maybe I can trim a few of his nails."

Oso doesn't like it when I trim his nails (bad mommy again, should have done more of that when he was younger) so I am trying to do it when he's tired and usually it's no problem. Today, we did about 4 and after every nail, he got some of his food. But nail #5, Oso threw a TANTRUM!!! I pushed the little guy way too far and then helped elevate it. When he pulled his foot away, I held on firmly (but without force) because I don't want him to think pulling away will make the nail cutting stop. He then started kicking and escalating in panic. It turned into a HUGE thing where he was biting my hand trying to get it off. I still wouldn't let go - same reasoning as before, but I wanted to block him. Not only did it hurt, but he should know he NEVER should bite my hand. Couldn't figure out how to block him from biting, put a toy rope in his mouth than thought, should I be giving him a toy. I even tried speaking sternly to him, no effect (even though he hasn't been yelled at before). 

I had created this situation, where I couldn't give him food until I had trimmed this darn nail. So, when he stopped biting and calmed down I let go of his foot, but he was still bitey when I went to do it again. I think this is the point where maybe I should have just had him do a few tricks and then given him the food. But, I didn't want the tantrum to be successful I tried wrapping him in a blanket and putting it over his head because I've done that with the cats before and he freaked out, I felt soooo horrible. He made a sound like he thought I was going to suffocate him, I let him out immediately. Finally after maybe 6 minutes (it feels long while you're doing it) he calmed down, I trimmed the nail and he got his food and some praise. 

I let him walk around a little bit and then I put him in the crate for a nap. I am SHAKEN!! I have about 4 little cuts around my hands. I hope it will never happen again. I was worried when he was biting my hand and had no idea what to do. I've worked with kids with Autism who bite and I know how to block them so they can't bite, but don't get reinforced, but had no idea how to do that with Oso. I tried to do a dominance and it just increased his panic. I felt soooo horrible.

We'll take a step back and reinforce me holding the clipper to his paw without cutting. It's not the end of the world, but I feel like I damaged our relationship with the whole situation. 

Ok, that's my RELEASE!!


If anyone reads this thanks for "listening"


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

<3 Don't stress about it too much. From my limited experience with Riley, Vs are very forgiving. We pushed our poor pup too far the other day at the beach (2 hrs hard running) and then tried to bring her into town with us. She ended up snapping at my sister's chihuahua over a bowl of water, which is completely out of character for her. Lesson learned: even though they have a lot of stamina, you CAN push them too far.  I felt like a horrid mommy, but Riley took a nap for a few hours and she seemed to have completely forgotten it when she woke up.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

I wouldn't worry too much about it. I am going through these battles twice daily at the moment with Astro's little cyst on his paw. Everytime i have to change the dressing cover, he freaks out. Last night he reacted very similiarly to your pup. He snapped at me, growled and then whimpered when none of that worked. He looked at me with those sad puppy eyes that say "Daddy...what are you doing this for? Your frightening me? Please stop" and it almost breaks your heart I know. 

Just persevere with it. I am finding that Astro is starting to become better and better at letting me muck around with his paw. I didn't have him from a pup, so he hasn't had the benefit of the leg and paw work I do with my pups to get them used to it for times like this. Ozkar will kick back and let me do almost anything. Zsa Zsa must have been belted before I got her, as she cowers down and almost closes her eyes when I clip her nails. Then she goes and sulks for an hour after to let me know she didn't like it.


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Thanks guys. Oso hasn't seemed to hold a grudge. It was a heart wrenching experience, but I think we both feel better now. We went to the dog park and Oso came every time I called. If he thought he thought I was bad, I don't think he would have.

Glad to hear that Astro is getting better. I"m going to have to be more proactive about making nail clipping a better experience.


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

One thing that helps us is to constantly touch Mischa's nails. When she is sitting next to me, I always play with them. She doesn't mind, and clipping her nails is usually an easy job. 
About a month ago she got squirmy and I rushed the last clip. Hit her quick pretty badly, and she bled for probably 5 minutes (baking soda helped stop it). I clipped them again a few days ago and she was excellent. She forgot all about it because I always introduce the clippers and dremel to her by letting her sniff them, and petting her with them.

I wouldn't be too worried about "winning" in that case. You trapped him and he reacted the way any animal would. It's ok to let go of his paw, take a deep breath, and reintroduce the clippers to his nose/tongue. After he sniffs it and/or licks it, start to pet his side with it. Make the tool a pleasant experience. 
Treats help, but in my experience, a calming deep breath resets the entire moment and is the most important part. Give him a treat after each clip for a while, then once it becomes easier, give him one after 1 paw, then after all 4.

It is also much easier to do with a partner the first few times. 1 does the clipping and petting with the clippers, the other gets him to sniff and eat treats.


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## SteelCityDozer (Aug 25, 2011)

Dozer is close to horrible for nail clipping and ive been working on it since the beginning. 14 mos later we have a technique that's working I think. I use his feeding that night, or a couple nights depending on progress. I introduce the tool as stated which he gets surprisingly excited about. Probably because it means food. Then he gets treated/fed a few bits for letting me hold his paw, clip a nail or clip the whole paw depending on how things are going. But when he's relaxed, I'm relaxed. When he struggles, I'm firm to hold on. If he bites and I can't calmly make him stop I can release then take a breath and start over with holding his paw or touching the clippers on his paw. They key is to reward before he gets irritated which may take many repetitions and a whole week to cut his nails. 

Good luck, don't give up and don't try too hard. You'll stress both of you out.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

I just had a wrestling match with little Astro. He looked so confused and scared. But, I had no choice. He snuck into the water on our walk and wet all the bandage over his sore paw. So I had to remove all the wet bandage and restrap it. It was a battle, but as I had no choice and it had to be done now to dry and clean it and redress it, I just bit the bullet and we made it through. 

He fought hard this time. This time for the first time since I have had him I had to be rather stern in my tone to get him to sit still. At first, he wasn't having a bar of it and he fought me very hard. To the point where I had to literally lay on him to stop him wriggling around. He wasn't a happy camper I can tell you. But, as soon as I had finished it, he was praised and rewarded and I think he got it. He gave me the look of.... "Oh...so if I put up with that, I can have a treat?.... yeah????" and was a happy boy again. He was wagging his tail and licking my face when I put the new dressing back on, so I think he's not too scarred for life!!!  Poor little thing though. I hate putting them through anything like that.


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

I read somewhere that Vizslas absolutely detest being manhandled, and my experience seems to bear this out. What can you do, though? Sometimes it is necessary for their own good.


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## Kobi (Oct 26, 2010)

I'm pretty sure I've tried everything in the process of trimming Kobi's nails, but none worked. I'd rather take him for a 10 mile run than think about trimming his nails. Fortunately the running seems to have ended the need for nail trimming.


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Thanks everyone! It actually did have a bit of lasting damage. That night at puppy obedience class, we did a thing (which we always do in the beginning) where we stroke their ears and have them roll over on their backs and we rub their bellies and touch their paws, etc. and Oso reacted with the panicked biting.

I think I should have avoided the battle and let go of his paw, like you said Mischa. Unlike changing his bandage, clipping that last nail wasn't something that HAD to get done. 

I do just need to prevent that by stopping before he gets annoyed. Poor Oso. We'll be ok though. Thank you all for reading my vent and giving helpful suggestions!

Kobi, glad to hear the running does the nail clipping for you. Although I should definitely solve this problem, it'll be a sigh of relief if we don't have to do nail clipping when Oso is an adult.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

Have you tried a dremel? The breeder recommended it to us and we love using it on Riley's nails. It's very fast and I don't worry about clipping her quick.


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

luv2laugh said:


> Thanks everyone! It actually did have a bit of lasting damage. That night at puppy obedience class, we did a thing (which we always do in the beginning) where we stroke their ears and have them roll over on their backs and we rub their bellies and touch their paws, etc. and Oso reacted with the panicked biting.
> 
> I think I should have avoided the battle and let go of his paw, like you said Mischa. Unlike changing his bandage, clipping that last nail wasn't something that HAD to get done.
> 
> ...


Winning battles is very important imo, but only when those battles are for dominant/aggressive behaviours. 
Things like nail trimming/bathing have to be done gently to show your pup that he may not like it, but it has to be done and you will reward him for his good behaviour.

Don't sweat This. You just have to keep in mind that this is something he is very sensitive about now. 
You have to get him ok with being handled by his paws first.

Get his favorite treats out and hold them to his nose. 
As he's sniffing, pick up his paw, and let him eat the treat.
Now, let him sniff another, and let him eat it as you're touching his nail.
Do that a few times and he will begin to come around. 
Once he is ok with you touching, bring out the clippers and introduce them as I mentioned, and incorporate a food reward.

If you do that a number of times, praising him along the way as you touch and tug on his nails, he'll be fine with you clipping them again in no time.

It's times like these when you learn how to motivate your dog that you guys really bond closer. You can help him with this, and he'll love you more for it. 

One thing that came to mind, does he know paw? If not, teach it and have some fun with it like high fives or anything else goofy you can think of. That will help him associate his paws in your hands meaning something positive.


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Oso is actually fine with me touching his paws and we do shake all the time. He doesn't like the clipping though. Love the photo of high five. We should teach him that one. Very cute!

I haven't looked into dremel, but will check it out. I am sure we can desensitize trimming nails, we need to make the clippers more positive. I need to respect him when he pulls his foot back. In fact, it has occurred to me that maybe the poor baby's foot was just hurting.


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## redrover (Mar 17, 2011)

Do your clippers make a loud noise when you clip his nails? My friend's dog HATED getting his nails trimmed with his clippers, but his owner had these very cheap ones that made the most obnoxious noise when they closed. Even though the dog didn't mind having his paws and nails handled, he hated the clippers themselves. He's a trifle noise sensitive, actually, and that loud clacking noise so close to his own body would freak him out. I had my friend try my pair of quieter clippers, and the dog did much better. Not perfect, but better. Perhaps Oso just doesn't like the noise?


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

Mischa, I just love that "high five" picture... How adorable!!


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## ctracyverizon (May 26, 2011)

Here is what works well for us ... it takes two though.

We use a snipper and a dremmel and I spent a good amount of time getting him used to it using all the tricks.

We fill up all the kongs with peanut butter & bananas. I sit on the floor and hold Summit on his back in my lap with a Kong in one hand while he licks away happily and my wife works on his nails clipping and grinding. As long as the food holds out he is happy as a clam.

He has gotten used to it and it goes fast this way


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