# Growling at meal times



## Must dash (Nov 15, 2012)

Apologies if this is in the wrong section. Wasn't sure if it should be in behaviour, but as Sadie is a 14 week old puppy......

Since we have been giving Sadie her meals we have stroked her and occasionally lifted her bowl as advised. She has been fine with this until 4 days ago. If I approach her to stroke her she has started to growl. If I stroke her as soon as I out the food down she's fine. If I walk away and come back to stroke her, the growling begins. I have increased her food as she is growing at an amazing rate at the moment and thought it may be hunger that has triggered it. I have tried lifting her bowl and adding "high value" food to it, so she associates me approaching, with good things. It doesn't seem to be working. Should I lift the bowl to show her that I control the resources and that if she growls at me they will be withheld until she stops the growling, or will that just reinforce the fear that she'll lose her food. She always sits before I put her food bowl down and if I lift it she automatically sits nicely for me to put it back down. Any thought's on how to handle this?

She only does it with food, not toys or her bed etc.


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## oliveJosh12 (Sep 10, 2012)

Hi Must Dash!

I read a post on a Vizsla FB group where an older V had started to growl at his owner when being fed. She said she lifted the bowl as well but lots of people said that, that would make him worse as he would then get even more protective of it as he thinks the food may be taken from him.

The answer that 80% of people gave said to put a little bit more food in the bowl gradually (maybe start with less) keep the stoking going and add food.

I think after a few goes the threat of no food had gone so he was fine.

Others might have other ideas though


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## Must dash (Nov 15, 2012)

Thank you for the replies. It's a hard choice. If her growling stems from fear of losing the food, then I need to reassure her by using the adding the food technique. If the growling stems from her challenging me, then the food control comes into play. To be honest I have no idea which it is. Why would she begin to fear losing her food. She's had no threat to it being taken away. We only occasionally lifted her bowl, but have always stroked her while being fed. :-\


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## oliveJosh12 (Sep 10, 2012)

Hand feeding may be a good idea too like datacan said or maybe just sit next to her while she eats. So she doesnt have a choice about you being there.
I have found that not always the first thing I try with Olive works. For example with her shark attacks just saying No didnt work so had to do time out. so maybe give one thing a go and then if that doesnt work move on.
People may not agree but not everything works for every dog.

Good luck! Let us know how her lunch goes!


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## Must dash (Nov 15, 2012)

Will do 

I realise consistency is also key and in my heart of hearts I think she is maybe just pushing a little to see what she can get away with. I haven't seen any reason or incident for her to fear her food is going to be taken away. Hand feeding it is then! Mind you it's like feeding a piranha ;D


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## Must dash (Nov 15, 2012)

I hand fed about quarter of her food at lunchtime. Sadie then sat and waited for me to put her food bowl down as usual. I tried stroking her and she growled. I continued to stroke her and the growling got louder so I pulled away from her food without lifting the bowl. but made her sit and calm then allowed her to eat again. Eat time she growled I repeated the same. I suppose my thinking is the food isn't being taken away, but I am telling her growling is not acceptable and she has to stop to have her food again. Not sure if this is right or wrong but giving it a go.


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

Must said:


> I hand fed about quarter of her food at lunchtime. Sadie then sat and waited for me to put her food bowl down as usual. I tried stroking her and she growled. I continued to stroke her and the growling got louder so I pulled away from her food without lifting the bowl. but made her sit and calm then allowed her to eat again. Eat time she growled I repeated the same. I suppose my thinking is the food isn't being taken away, but I am telling her growling is not acceptable and she has to stop to have her food again. Not sure if this is right or wrong but giving it a go.


I would have suggested this. Saved me typing a reply!!


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## adrino (Mar 31, 2012)

Up until recently we didn't have a problem with Elza but about 2 months ago Elza started to growl if we rubbed her while she was eating. So I found some older posts on this on the forum and read an article that seemed reasonable. 
My explanation quite long but it worth a try. We haven't finished it yet with Elza but we made a good progress so far. 

Day 1-2: sit next to the bowl and feed her by giving her just a spoonful. When she finished it make her back off/sit and give her the next spoonful. The entire meal has to be fed like this each mealtimes. 
Day 3-4: stand next to her bowl and feed her the same way as day 1-2, spoon by spoon. 
Day 5-6: stand next to her bowl and put some amount in the bowl and while she eats keep putting a little amount in the bowl. 
Day 7-8: put some amount in the bowl walk away come back and top it up with some food. Walk away come back and put some in there again while she eats. Repeat each meal. 
Day 9-10: put some amount in the bowl, walk away come back top it up and rub her back. Nothing overly excited just a little rub. Walk away then repeat the process again. Each time when you come back to top up her food give her a little rub. 
Day 11-12: give her the entire food and come and go and rub her. By now she might be wagging her tail when she sees you coming. If not its still ok. If she tenses up or growls again you went too fast. Back again with the previous process and do it slower. 

At the end she should be ok to be touched while she eats. You can finish this exercise with coming to her when she eats and put your hand in the bowl while she eats. At day 13-14 you can do that, having some food in your hand approach her drop a few pieces in there and put your hands in the bowl and feed a few bits from your hand. 

I'm at the touching part with her and she hasn't growled at me. Today was the first time I rubbed her during feeding plus I noticed compared to day one now she eats a lot slower. Before if I would come near her she would start to gobble up her food like a maniac. 

As others have said many things works for one dog but maybe not the other. Anyway I'm impressed with this so I will carry on and see what happens. /as a side note we have some other resource guarding issues with precious toys, chews too/

Good luck! Keep us updated on your progress.


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## adrino (Mar 31, 2012)

Just one more thing, I no longer take her food away by lifting her bowl which I think also helps. We used to do the same and she would always sit down and wait until we put it back but I think not taking it away helps her understand I'm not there to take her food away so she doesn't need to protect it. 

Turns out my dog walker took it away and I think that just made it worse. We asked him not to do that anymore.


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## Must dash (Nov 15, 2012)

Thank you for the info Adrino. I have decided to stick with what I was doing at lunchtime, just so I don't keep changing things and confusing Sadie. If this fails, I will certainly try your technique.

Well the growling continued initially through her evening meal. I continued to stroke Sadie, when she growled I sat her back away from the dish, but left it on the floor. I had to do this three times, but on the third attempt, no growling. I'll keep going with this. Fingers crossed she'll get the message.

Thank you for everyone's advice. It's nice to hear different view points. Every dog is different and I appreciate you need to treat each one as an individual.


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## Must dash (Nov 15, 2012)

Just a quick update on this. In the end I mixed two different techniques. I put some of Sadie's food in her bowl and stroked her. No growling. if I walked away and then came back and stroked her she would growl a little. I ignored it and didn't speak. Then I would make her sit back from her dish and wait while I put a small hand full of food in her bowl. Then I would tell her she could eat. I did this for the remained of her meal. No growling an on the plus side it also taught her the wait command too 

Now however she is guarding an empty bowl : The growling is much louder and more serious. I ask her to sit which she does, then I hold her collar and lift the bowl quickly. As soon as the bowl is off the floor you can visibly see the tension leave her body and she's fine. We've tried leaving the bowl on the floor and leaving the room and completely ignoring her. She would stay with it for quite a while. Then the other day she started barking, trying to draw our attention to the bowl, which we obviously ignored. So far I've just removed the bowl as fast a possible, we've ignored it and now I'm holding onto the last handful of food and hand feeding her with it while drawing her attention away from the bowl. I then lift it off the floor with the other hand! 

Any other suggestions on how to deal with this one. She just keeps moving the goal posts ;D


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

My suggestion is don't put down the bowl between meals. 

She is clearly using the bowl as a means of control. Take away the bowl and the problem of guarding an empty bowl goes away too.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

*why on earth would you stroke her while she growls at you????* 

Affection just enforces her position - go away - you are bothering me - go away, or else I may need to bite you (later, if my growling is unsuccessful and snapping at you fails). 

I would take the food bowl away and feed her while I train the basics over and over. Sit, stay, come here, etc.
In any case if I don't like something I don't reward with affection. 
I would be carefully avoiding sending mixed or weak messages to the dog. 

Another option is to enlist a trainer's services. Although some will just take advantage of you and train stupid. Either too harsh or too soft.

I would definitely look into clicker training (or find a trainer who is competent in clicker training)

!!


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## Must dash (Nov 15, 2012)

Born 36 I do usually lift the bowl at the end of every meal. We just left it a few times and walked out of the room showing no interest. The thinking was to demonstrate that we were ignoring her guarding behaviour and we were not interested in her empty bowl. Just trying something different. It didn't work anyway 

Datacan every puppy book I've read tells you to stroke your puppy while they eat. I appreciate that it is to prevent such a situation. Doesn't seem to have worked for us! I don't talk to her or fuss her affectionally, just one or two slow strokes down her back. Then I step away and carry on with my usual jobs. I continue to do it to let her know that if I want to stroke her while she eats, I will. Surely if I stop, her growling has put me in my place. I hold the food, she is made to sit and wait for each small handful that I put into her bowl and she only eats when I tell he she can.

We start puppy training next week anyway. I'll see what the trainer has to say.


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## jld640 (Sep 29, 2010)

Instead of snatching the bowl away, you can claim the bowl as your own before it gets lifted from the floor. Approach it opposite from her so she sees you coming. Stand tall and calmly walk straight over top of the bowl – she should back up without you touching either the bowl or her. Pause for a moment so your energy tells her ‘this is my space’. Then pick up the bowl casually. It’s yours, not hers. No need to make a fuss.


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## Must dash (Nov 15, 2012)

Thank you jld640. I'll give it a go. I usually approach her from side on although she knows I'm there, as she eats in a corner of the room. I have managed to make her back up before like this, over something else though. I was making her sit back from the bowl, but as I would lean down to collect it she would jump forward and put both paws in it. Then it escalated from that, to adding in a growl. I'll try it tonight and let you know how I get on. 

Thank again.


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## Must dash (Nov 15, 2012)

Whooooo hooooo!!! jld640 oh wise one. It worked!!! I love it when a piece of advice just makes sense. You put it into practise and hey presto result! Can you tell I'm one happy lady ;D Now to keep it up as I know consistency is key!


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## mlenzen (Mar 2, 2011)

Our 1st Vizsla, Mady, started doing this when she was about 1 1/2 years old and it bothered me but really upset my wife. So I did a little research on the issue and the end got an idea from something I saw on the Dog Whisperer. Its very simple. When I would put her bowl down at feeding time she would not be allowed to eat until I said she could using a control word, in our case "OK". Sometimes she would have to wait 15 or 20 seconds, sometimes a minute or two before l let her have the food by giving her the "OK". Initially this meant me getting between her and the bowl but, that didn't last long. The idea was to make her understand that the only reason she got the food is because I gave it to her and said she could have it. I took a couple of weeks but, she got the idea and the growling went away for good. Her little brother Otto learned this as a puppy watching Mady at feeding time and more recently our little Sady learned it as a puppy watching Otto. We still do this at feeding time and neither Otto nor Sady have ever growled while eating. Just an idea but, it has worked well for us.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

more Caesar Millan? Just google "Caesar Millan full episodes on YouTube"


https://www.google.ca/url?q=http://...twIwBA&usg=AFQjCNFo25iTT0Q2s3GKBN_PIjNFyd0dnQ


Great entertainer


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## Alex_Mojo (Jan 9, 2013)

Right, so a new day comes with a new problem, Mojo is growling when he eats.
The first days we got him I let him sleep in the bed with me, and he started growling when I pet him while eating. I tried 2 different approaches one was from Cezar Millan: being very firm with him, correct him and he became really scared and started shacking while eating and the growling increased. I didn't let him sleep in the bed anymore and tried a different approach:not giving all his food at once, staying near him and put small drops off food while he eats, it worked for a while, today i didn't have time to stay with him so I've put the food down and when I came to change his water he started growling pretty nasty. I put my hand on the back of his neck and pulled him away from the food, he calmed down, stayed a bit like that then let him eat again, pet him he started growling did again the pulling thing let him bk to eat he didn't growl anymore
I must say I'm a bit scared that this might turn in aggression when he grows up.
He doesn't have any other prbs of possession with his toys or his bed. Don't know what other method to adopt, in rest he listens to me, he sleeps at my feet not on my pillow (I read that's the way to let them sleep in the bed). I'm feeling I'm doing everything right but obviously I'm not. Should I get worried and go to a trainer with him or is this not such a big of a problem? Thank you


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Alex_Mojo said:


> Right, so a new day comes with a new problem, Mojo is growling when he eats.
> *The first days we got him I let him sleep in the bed with me, and he started growling when I pet him while eating. I tried 2 different approaches one was from Cezar Millan: being very firm with him, correct him and he became really scared and started shacking while eating and the growling increased.[/color]*
> 
> I didn't let him sleep in the bed anymore and tried a different approach:not giving all his food at once, staying near him and put small drops off food while he eats, it worked for a while, today i didn't have time to stay with him so I've put the food down and when I came to change his water he started growling pretty nasty. I put my hand on the back of his neck and pulled him away from the food, he calmed down, stayed a bit like that then let him eat again, pet him he started growling did again the pulling thing let him bk to eat he didn't growl anymore
> ...


Read like this, perhaps others will chime in...

Dog training is fairly simple if the dog is healthy. 
Any professional I ever met suggested a vet check before any behavioral training program would commence. 
Go with a competent dog trainer and not try to go to PetSmart if you can, They could ruin ruin your dog even further. On one hand, treats training can only go so far and on the other hand Caesar Milan is simply too brutal for the average dog. There is a reason why this show ended (beside him screwing around and his wife filing for divorce). Because of his celebrity exposure, took professionals by surprise and will take years to correct the damage this man inflicted on the dog training community. 

/


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## adrino (Mar 31, 2012)

> today i didn't have time to stay with him


There's no quick fix here so unless you're willing to put the time and effort into training it out of him it will carry on or get worse. It's not aggression it's recourse guarding. It can take weeks/months to solve this IMO and if you go too fast there can be fallbacks so its better to do it slowly. 

If you go back to the first page of this thread I have posted a method about the food issue. We have successfully resolved Elza's growling with it maybe in a month or so. Even now every 2-3 days I do the same method just to remind her this is the right way. She's got nothing to worry about if we come around while she eats. Also another thing we have achieved with this method that she eats a LOT slower than ever. She used to gobble down the food in 2 minutes now she will eat the same amount in 5-7 minutes. It means she will chew her whole food instead of having mouthfuls swallowed un-chewed which is very bad for them. That tells me she's comfortable eating her food and she's not worried somebody comes around and takes it away. 

Have to add she still guards some of her toys but I haven't worked on that yet. I added this to let you know I do have a problem with my dog too and didn't just posted that out of the blue. 

It takes a lot of time, effort and devotion to redirect this kind of behaviour but at the end it all worth it! Good luck


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