# Pros and cons of choke collars



## VbarK Vizslas

We have had our Vizsla for 5 years she is very easy to train we use an E collar in the field but only use the tone. We kept a pup out of her last litter for our son for a hunting dog and 4H project. We went to our first meeting and she REQUIRES the choke collar. I don't believe in the use of them because in the wrong hands-my eight yo inexperienced dog trainer son-they can be devastating. What is everyones take on this collar.


----------



## harrigab

I use a slip lead with Ruby as i've never liked choke collars. I think imo that plenty of walking and correction (mixed with a bit of patience) and the need for a choke collar is nullified.


----------



## Aimless1

Time to walk away from the person running the meetings. If she insists on a choke collar she will insist on force training. This sounds like the wacko who taught me everything not to do with my first dog.


----------



## harrigab

Amen, Aimless!


----------



## Linescreamer

Who is "She" and would you feel the need to follow her instructions?


----------



## threefsh

4H uses choke collars on most dumb animals (goats, etc.) so they don't realize a choke collar is not for every animal. See if she will allow you to use a martingale collar... same concept, but not something that can hurt the pup.


----------



## harrigab

just for clarification purposes, is "She", the trainer or your V?


----------



## VbarK Vizslas

She is the 4H leader. I am really leaning towards him not having a dog project. The pup-Odin is only 11 weeks on Sat. I just don't feel comfortable using that on a dog-no matter what age. Thank you everyone for helping with my decision.


----------



## Aimless1

If it helps, famous dog trainer Dave Walker (brittanys) abhors choke collars. In my view no responsible dog trainer advocates their use.


----------



## harrigab

VbarK said:


> _*She is the 4H leader.*_ I am really leaning towards him not having a dog project. The pup-Odin is only 11 weeks on Sat. I just don't feel comfortable using that on a dog-no matter what age. Thank you everyone for helping with my decision.


Jeeezusss, does she advocate a tazer as a correction tool too??


----------



## Aimless1

From Dave Walker's book "The Bird Dog Training Manual":

"A choke chain is a type of collar which has rings at both ends. The chain drops through one of the rings and makes a collar that can be slipped over the dog's head and around his neck. By attaching a leash to one end ring , a handler can choke a dog into submission.

When should you use a choke chain? The answer is *never*."


----------



## datacan

Here is my thought: No to choke collar but yes to prong collar. Besides, I think the Swiss have a campaign against the use of choke chains. 
I also read the choke action may damage dog's the thyroid glands if it is fit loosely (usually that's the case)

*Experiment: *
1. Fit a choke collar around your thigh and pull hard (just medium-hard correction). My guess is it will pinch the skin where the chain goes through the ring . Also, a pretty nasty bruise will be the result all around the chain was.
2. And now let's do the same on the other leg with the prong collar. Results in some pain but no bruising. 
_I know this because I tried it. Took a week to heal the bruise choke chain left._

If you would like to use a so called Dominant dog collar (developed for GSD, mostly)... (which is a twist on the British slip lead), it fits very snugly around the dog's head. Caesar Milan uses that technique. Except he developed his own neck brace collar thing. 
I still prefer the prongs. There are some nice Herm Sprenger stainless steel ones.


----------



## redrover

I'm not a fan of choke collars. They can be pretty damaging when used by inexperienced trainers (which your song would be). I'd avoid it with a pup that young, especially if your son is the one doing the handling.


----------



## VbarK Vizslas

Just an update. I texted to 4H leader and told her we wouldn't be doing the dog project and told her why. She is going to let him do the project without the choke collar. Yeah!! I think it will be a good experience for my son to help train the dog. He wants him to go bird hunting with him when he is old enough to hunt. So, I will keep everyone posted on the 4H thing. Again thanks to everyone.


----------



## Aimless1

Congratulations. Sounds like you may have a good leader there.


----------



## R E McCraith

Choke says it all-aimless1 is right-so many gentle ways 2 correct a V-unless your in a punk rock group who in their right mind would have a CHOKE collar!


----------



## gunnr

Any trainer that "requires" a choke collar should be avoided. Any Trainer/Program that eschews a progressive approach to discipline and behavior correction during the training process is outdated, and starting off in the wrong direction. 
The choke collar is an incredibly valuable training aid when _*used correctly*_, and that is where the problem comes in. More often than not, it is used incorrectly. 
The choke collar is the "Ace of Spades" in the training deck. It's the high trump card and should held back until absolutely necessary to play. Playing the trump card up front is foolish
An eCollar at minimum has enginnering controls designed into it, to preclude abuse. Not so with the choke collar. In the wrong hands it's a cruel, vicous device.
.
Bottom line is too find another trainer that isn't running their program out of a book.


----------



## Linescreamer

harrigab said:


> VbarK said:
> 
> 
> 
> _*She is the 4H leader.*_ I am really leaning towards him not having a dog project. The pup-Odin is only 11 weeks on Sat. I just don't feel comfortable using that on a dog-no matter what age. Thank you everyone for helping with my decision.
> 
> 
> 
> Jeeezusss, does she advocate a tazer as a correction tool too??
Click to expand...

LOL


----------



## Linescreamer

Gunnr said:


> Bottom line is too find another trainer that isn't running their program out of a book.


Interesting insight. I hope you familiarize yourself with various training techniques and find the ones you are comfortable with. I also hope you will not be leaving the dog and your son alone during this training process.


----------



## VbarK Vizslas

Ummm that would be a big NO!!! 4H is very family orientated so I go and sit at all-shotgun, archery, dog, lego & horse-meetings. I try not to dump and leave my kiddos-furry ones included


----------

