# Is the puppy we’re considering too nervous?



## Vivid (Feb 25, 2012)

Hi, we just signed up to this forum. It seems really active and people seem very helpful! We’ve fallen in love with the Vizslas that we’ve seen. We found a local breeder that has one last puppy available, went to see it last night, and love the dog but have a few questions.

The puppy is 4 months old and is from a litter of 10. We met the mother and the brother, which they’re keeping. All other puppies have been sold, so he is the last one available. Compared to his brother, “our” dog is smaller and less muscular. We were told he wasn’t the runt of the litter though. 

When we first came into the basement, he held back more than his brother. He did respond to us more and more as the hour went by, and let me examine his paws, ears, and teeth very patiently. Even approached me a couple times on his own. For the last 15 minutes he was snuggling on the couch with our two young kids. I loved seeing that! But definitely shyer than his brother.

He did pee a couple times during the hour also, once squatting on the newspaper and once against the owner’s leg! His brother didn’t pee at all. Might be nothing, or might mean more skittishness?

Also, his coat is darker than his brother and mother, and he did have a little ring of black around his nose though we were told this was from playing in the newspapers on the floor. I think these things might be considered undesirable for the breed from what I’ve read, but we’re not planning to show or breed this dog, so if he doesn’t show good colorings or whatever, we don’t really care, unless it’s a sign that character problems are more likely to crop up.

This is our first dog, we’ve had a cat just previously, and there are lots of dogs among family and friends. We don’t want to be all neurotic, just don’t want to make a mistake if we can help it, and also don’t want to pass up this opportunity if we don’t have to.

So, what do you all think? Do these things raise any flags for anyone? Should we be concerned by his smaller size, that he's the last one sold, his holding back, his peeing, or his coat coloring? Thanks in advance for any advice for a newbie!


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

If you are new to having a Vizsla in your family, then this more reserved pup may be exactly what you need. If you have never had a Vizsla, then a high energy one may provide some difficult challenges for you. A more relaxed V might be easier for you to train and live with.

Go back and wash pups nose and see if the black ring is printers ink, or a deviation.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Likes your children-pissed on it's breeder-take him-looks like a WINNER!


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## Vivid (Feb 25, 2012)

Ha ha! Yep, I guess the pup cast _his_ vote alright!


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

4 months old and they have him peeing on newspaper in the basement? ??? Sounds a little fishy to me. Is this breeder reputable? Most breeders have all pups sold before they are even born. I would consider researching other breeders.

We put a deposit down on Riley months before she was born & we had 4th pick of the girls. She was more submissive, but none of the puppies were shy. I would stay away from a shy puppy because that could develop into fear aggression later in life.

My 2 cents


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

Hi, Vivid, and welcome to the forums! Like threefsh said, the pup's shyness would need to be addressed right away with lots and lots of socialization. You wouldn't want to end up with a "scaredy-dog". His affection for your kids is a good sign, for sure! Somewhere on the forums is a list of things to do (right away) to properly socialize a puppy, and if you do end up with this puppy, that list would be a good thing for you to follow. Type up a check-list for yourself. I think the list was called "Socialization Scavenger Hunt", if you wanted to search it.


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

The shyness and peeing on the paper sounds like this pup hasn't been top priority as far as training/attention/socialization goes. It does bode well that the pup seems to like your kids. As a 1st time owner, research the V very well. The breed can be very demanding, and as a mom of 3 young kids, I know how hard exercise etc. can be on any day (much less a hectic one). I think the newspaper rubbing black marks on his nose is BS, but you will be able to tell after visiting him again. Good Luck & welcome to the forum


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

My advice. No. Don't Fall in Love with a Vizsla.

I know it is hard to do but STOP and spend ONE YEAR researching the dog and spend time with others that own them. Follow this forum. Take the time to read Vizsla blogs. 

We have a list of folks waiting for our next litter. Two families have smaller children. Neither have had Vizslas before. Sorry, the breeder had to say no to adding them to the waiting list.

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2009/10/i-read-they-were-good-with-kids.html

No, no, no. no.................................. for now. Next spring if you are still "in love" with a Vizsla, then you will have the knowledge and contacts to get the right dog from a hobby breeder that will find the right dog for you. Not the left over dog.

Study. Don't make your and the dog's life ****.

Sorry, but you asked.

RBD
http://redbirddog.blogspot.com


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## tracker (Jun 27, 2011)

Vivid, 

I was in a somewhat similar position you were in about 5 months ago, however I had been on a waiting list for a puppy for quite some time after doing months and months of research. While I was on the waiting list the breeder called me and let me know one of their previous clients returned an 8 month old pup, as they just had a newborn and it has developped severe allergies to the pup (dont believe this for a second). We had visited the breeder a few times, and this time we went to have a look at this 8 month old. Was full of energy, and attached himself to us as soon as we arrived. We decided to bring him home, and it has been a challenge getting rid of his old bad habits and reinforcing the positive behaviours we want. At 1 year 1 month, we are starting to see some signs of maturity, listening much better, knowing whats expected of him, etc. 

Excellent point by RBD though, and I could stress that you will need at least 1-2 hours of undedicated attention and excercise per day. 

If you do decide to take the plunge, I found the puppy socialization checklist and posted below. 

Good luck. 

"Socialization Scavenger Hunt

Go for 3 car rides
Have a bath (at home or groomer)
Meet 2 grey haired senior citizens
Meet a person with a cane or in a wheelchair
Visit a garden center or hardware store
Visit the vet without an appointment and just sit in the waiting-room
Visit 2 friends at their homes
Do "sit" and "down" for a stranger
Go to a friends house and leave puppy there for an hour without you
Take biscuits from 3 different children
Carry your pup to 3 different parks
Ride on public transit while being carried
Meet 3 friendly dogs owned by friends
Ride an elevator
Meet another domestic pet while on leash
Take a biscuit from a man with a beard

Good luck! "


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## Lindsey1420 (Jan 28, 2012)

I am a first time V owner. So, dont have much advice for getting the V or not. But here is what I went through to get Jack and how my life has changed. My husband and I got Jack in October. Let me say, my life has been turned up side down. If I had kids this probably would not have worked out. I researched V for a year or so. My husband's best friend growing up had V and his dad still has Vs. I visited them too. I researched breeders for quite so time. The three that I like were out of state for but one. All of them had waiting list. The one I got Jack from had someone back out, so we got on the list but it was still a long wait. 

I used to run around with co-workers and friends, watch TV, go and come as I pleased, and only do for walks/runs during nice weather, and keep my neice. That all changed when we got Jack!!! My schedule has changed all around Jack. He needs attention, care, and training. I watch way less TV. My dvr was full that I could not record anything else. My husband and I have missed out on get togethers when friends (we do go when we can take Jack. Our friends love him). We plans come up for family or friends we have to think about Jack first. Some family gets mad bc we cant do things like we used too. Oh well we say.
No more going for walks/runs when its nice! Thank God we had such a mild winter (I live in the midwest and normal we have bad winters). I dont have my neice as much as I did either. So, thank goodness I dont have kids (dont want them either). Jack is enough for me. Jack loves my neice and my neice loves Jack. They entertain each other! Its so cute. However, I feel that I give Jack more attention that I did when it was just my neice and I. I got just leave my neice in her jumper thing (not sure what it is really called, lol) and she would be great for hours (not that was was ignoring her!!) and with Jack he needs attention about every min that he is not taking a nap. 

This is intended to scary you about Vs. But I thought I researched Vs really well!! I knew but I didnt at the same time. Im glad I found this forum with such great people who have great advice. 

What I did research and what I do know, this situation sounds fishy. Like others have said, Vs are spoken for before that are even born. I dont know how much you are paying for this V, but V are sure a pretty penny. Another reason I wanted longer for before getting a V, had to save up!

Good Luck!


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## polkan (Dec 29, 2011)

To me, this puppy doesn't sound nervous at all, just undersocialized and not housetrained. He let you examine his paws and ears "patiently", and that's very important.

A separate question is buying this puppy. If you want a Vizsla, as opposed to a German Shepherd, it's likely you're attracted by their looks and temperament. Best breeders (and that's a subjective adjective) produce dogs that look as close to the standard as possible, have hunting desire and a consistent temperament.

Since this dog is already 4 months old, you'll have a somewhat better sense of this adult temperament than you could if he were an 8 week puppy. And you already suspect he may have confirmation issue. 

If you want a family pet that looks like a Vizsla and if you have time and patience to address issues in case they come up, on top of time you'll need anyway, then go for it.

If you want a Vizsla that looks very close to breed standard, has a predictable temperament when adult that the breed has, has hunting instinct, then find a top breeder, be ready to put down a deposit a month before the mating takes place and wait.

The closer to perfect, the harder to find and the more expensive.

The key is answering the most important question of all - what are you looking for and what do you want?


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

*Re: Is the puppy we’re considering too nervous?*

Hi There,

You have gotten some excellent advice already. 

It sounds like you were very wise in your assessment of the puppy and your fears are valid enough that you should back away. We had to step away from a little guy we ALMOST put a deposit down on. It was a little sad at the time, but I am glad we did. Oso requires a lot of work and he is a well socialized very happy and friendly puppy. 

Vizslas are already a high needs dog, without any social problems and you don't want to deal with possible fear/aggression with kids in the house. I did a lot of reading before getting Oso and all the puppy books said that a puppy should not be shy. It is not in its nature to be shy, it should be playful and bouncy and licky in its natural environment. I don't think shy is the same thing as low energy. A low energy vizsla is a good recommendation.

Also, if you get a dog at 4 months (past the critical socialization period) it is imperative that you get him from a breeder you trust. This is more important in a breed such as the vizsla, which can be skiddish without good socialization. The socialization list people keep referring to should be done BEFORE 12 weeks of age and then continued as he/she is older.

I highly recommend the books by Ian Dunbar, before you get your puppy and after you get your puppy. They are available for free online and are relatively quick reads with invaluable information.

http://www.dogstardaily.com/files/BEFORE You Get Your Puppy.pdf

http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/after-you-get-your-puppy

My only problem with Dunbar is he acts like you will ruin your dog if you mess up AT ALL. This is not true, but his advice is superb. Excellent advice for new puppy owners (or experienced ones). 

Also, puppy should be potty trained at four months, or at least in the process. That is a big warning sign. 

We did not spend a year researching vizslas and I don't think that is necessary. It IS necessary to be realistic about whether an active high needs dog works best with your family. The first few months are like having another baby in the home and in order for your little guy or girl to turn out the best possible it takes a lot of work. We couldn't even leave the house for 3 hours without hiring `someone to care for Oso in the beginning. His little bladder couldn't hold it that long. When he/she grows up you will need to be able to exercise it 2 hours a day in order for it to be a nice happy non crazy dog in the house. 

Some breeds are easier than vizslas. If he is the right breed for your family, they are amazing!

What I have found in the world of vizslas is that the breeder is one of the most important factors in choosing a pup. I would say first breeder, next parents of the dog, third temperament of the individual puppy.

This is a great forum!! I've glad you found us. Keep us updated on what you decide to do.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

RBD said it how I would.

Polkan said it politely.

Other's have also suggested you consider why a 4 month old pup has not been sold? 

Also the process they had to go through to even be considered for the waiting list. Sometimes being bumped off the list as there were not enough pups in the litter. These are all the things that you should be experiencing. These things tell you you are buying a pup with the very best chance of being what you want. A happy, healthy, well adjusted family member to live an active and stimulating daily life. 

Alarm bells ring in my head. Unless it was a re home from people who could not cope? My Astro is a Re home at 6.5 months of age. He came with a few issues, but we have overcome those with time and patience. So on the other side of the coin, if he is a Re home, he may be worth talking about. 

My guess is by now though, that you may have made your decision. Let us know what you ended up doing? Whichever, I hope you end up with a V who turns your world into something similar to mine


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

I would run, not walk from that situation. Find a reputable breeder and get a pup where everything looks good. You will spend thousands of dollars over the life of this pup and he/she will become a big part of your family. You don't need any extra work do you? Next time keep the kids home and look into the Volhard test.

http://www.volhard.com/pages/pat.php


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

I know it's really hard to say no to a cute puppy, but do not choose a puppy that shows any shyness whatsoever! We learned our lesson the hard way, bringing home our puppy last June. While he actually wasn't shy with us, we noticed he was very fearful of everything the minute we brought him home at 10 weeks. Fast forward several months, and our pup is afraid of strangers and children, and will growl and snap if cornered. We are working with trainers/behaviorists/etc, but this is a genetic issue that may or may not get better. I really wish we had met the mother, and thought twice on his 1st day home when we noticed he was so scared of everything! While he will be most likley be fine with our kids someday, we will probably never be able to trust him around other kids he doesn't know. If I were to do it over, I would absolutely make sure the puppy is very outgoing, and is from outgoing, friendly parents. Every trainer I have talked to has said that they see a ton of fearful Vizslas as a result of poor breeding , so I would really make sure to do your homework...I wish I did! (Although I still love my pup, he's just "special")


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## Vivid (Feb 25, 2012)

An update from us - we did get the pup on the weekend! Thanks for all the replies, sorry I took so long to get back on the forum - two of our the family got sick right after we got Rio, and it was always going to be a little nuts with a puppy anyway.

He is tons of fun. Very high energy (of course) but so far very eager to please and to learn. Not at all shy around the house with us. Good bite inhibition. We had friends with kids over, and although he held back at first, after the meal he was taking turns giving everyone a sniff. He takes a few minutes to accept strangers on the road, but he's getting lots of socialization I think, less so during the week though. Our neighbors' dogs are quite friendly and he's met them once. Once that's mastered, a short visit to the dog park is next. The socialization scavenger hunt is great, and have knocked a few of those off already. We're still having quite a few cold days up here in Manitoba so that's also an obstacle but we're getting him a jacket so the walks can last longer.

Housebreaking is the issue right now, and learning to time the walks properly after his meals, and how much water he can hold.

The black ring actually did turn out to be something that washed off. Looks like a normally colored Vizsla all around, at least to a newbie like me.

As for the waiting list, the breeder said they had a substantial list of people wanting the pup, but hadn't felt comfortable with any of them. Here in Manitoba this dog seems to be mostly unheard of, so maybe that explains the lower demand? Not sure what to think. We met both his parents and they both definitely do not have any nervousness or skittishness.

I appreciate all the advice and kind words, even though we didn't follow it all, since we went ahead and got the pup. Looking forward to learning lots from all you experts.


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## Looney (Sep 28, 2011)

Don't walk your puppy TOO much. I read that 5 minutes per month of life....my guy is up to about 12 minute walks.
I'm more interested in socialization to strangers and noises. He gets plenty of exercise indoors and some outdoors. He is a pretty low energy v for the most part. He will run around outside if he feels the urge but he normally just wants to pee/poo go back inside and chill. I almost think there is something wrong with him he's so chill....LOL...actually i think your pup will just MAGNIFY it's owners attitude and energy. Maybe...i am just so happy i don't have a nightmare puppy yet!

good luck and just keep your head up!!! or he'll bite your lip!!!


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## kristen (Oct 18, 2011)

Congrats on Rio!
Where are the pics?!! 

I think the 5 minute rule is not applicable to V's. My lil guy would stop and sit down when he had enough walking. A game of keep away in a hallway is also good for energy burning and some exercise if the weather is bad. Enjoy!


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

Yay. Congrats on Rio!! Kristen, I defintely agree on the 5m walk. If we had only walked 5m per month of life, I'm not sure any of us, including Pumpkin, would have sanely made it to the 1 yr mark! Your pup will let you know when he's had enough with various ways of burning energy. Be picky with your dog parks. Best wishes.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

Vivid said:


> We met both his parents and they both definitely do not have any nervousness or skittishness.


I'm glad to hear this! Sounds like your pup just needs some extra socialization.  Congrats on the new addition to your family.

The 5 minute rule is definitely not applicable to Vs. We took Riley on her first off-leash walk at 12 weeks and she *ran* on the beach for most of the hour-long walk. ;D


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## Looney (Sep 28, 2011)

I believe it's the ON LEASH walks that are to be no more than 5 minutes per month. I'd assume that's because they tug a bit too much and wear themselves out or hurt their joints? On a off leash run they can control their pace and their level of energy.


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## ironman_stittsville (Oct 12, 2011)

I take my V (Phoebe) with me everywhere that I can. I try to queue up chores to run where I can take her with me. She meets people, dogs, cats, sounds, ...

I encourage you to do the same. 

When she was 4 months old she was getting 2 walks per day lasting 30-45 minutes each. We also like to play games in the house like "find" and we did a lot of sit/down/stay training. Also we learned tricks and whatnot to wear her brain out (she's a smarty!). One thing that I tried to enforce with her is that when I'm busy with other things she should either sit quietly or play/chew on her things. I can't spend every minute with her so she needs to know when to settle down.

Enjoy Rio!


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## Lindsey1420 (Jan 28, 2012)

threefsh said:


> Vivid said:
> 
> 
> > We met both his parents and they both definitely do not have any nervousness or skittishness.
> ...



I was taking my V for walks about 2 wks after bring him home. My vet, who has had Vs growing up, said too. Jack's joints are fine. We went way longer than 5mins. Not no hour but longer than 5mins. Jack is now 7mos and we going for an hour or longer.


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## Vizsla Baby (Nov 4, 2011)

I think all puppies go through "fearful" stages. Sadie was very afraid on walks - when we passed other dogs, cars, lawn equipment, whatever happened to be around.

We heavily socialized her - around people, other dogs and various situations and she is fine now. Lots of dog park visits, trips to Petco, we kept walking her in the neighborhood, play dates with other dogs, etc.

But she still hates the vacuum cleaner. She runs for cover when we turn it on. She's better but I think it's something she'll always hate (I have to literally bump by other dog - dachshund - with it to get him to move - he is not afraid of it at all).


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