# 5 year old intact male, Bit owner. Suggestions?



## PensnCrows (Nov 9, 2013)

We have a wonderful family dog that is 5 years old. He is intact and has never had a major problem related to that as far as we can tell. He does not hump anyone and seems to mind his own business. He is protective, and I have had to learn that he is not as submissive as a golden retreiver, but anytime he feels awkward/anxious he has always growled and we understood each other. Never an issue.

Yesterday he bit me. Here are the circumstances. We had company and he was rubbing himself all over the legs of another gentleman in my driveway. He was petting him but I could tell that he was trying to move Fiver away. So I reached for him and told him to leave him alone. As I reached for the collar, he clamped down on my hand/thumb, shook a little then released. Then he immediately acted totally disoriented and tried to get into the stranger's car. After about a minute he came out of the car, rolled over and showed me his belly.

So. What to do? I did NOT scare him or startle him before the bite. I did not threaten in any way. He was staring at me when I reached for his collar. It wasnt a big red bone of meat, it was a stranger that he was making friends with. My concern is the unprovoked nature of the bite and that there was no warning growl. 

We took him to the vet today hoping he was sick. Perhaps that would explain it. But she said he is fit as a fiddle and that he just needs neutered. That would cut down his aggressiveness. Fine if that's true. The problem is that up till this incident his aggressiveness was never a problem. The only time I had a run in with him was when I tried to bully him and he snapped at me when he was adolescent. We just learned that bullying didn't work and training worked better. 

So. What do you suggest? I cannot risk him biting company or my children. However he never showed any reason to worry about that. My wife and I even had to discuss if we needed to put him to sleep over it and that was a terrible conversation. He is a good dog. Except yesterday. Is neutering him a good idea?


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## Bob Engelhardt (Feb 14, 2012)

PensnCrows said:


> ... Is neutering him a good idea?



No.


Intact-itude has nothing to do with it. The intact-agressive association is an old wives tale/myth that keeps being perpetuated by the ignorant. Just because a vet said so doesn't make it true - vets can be very old school and out of touch. Don't take my word for it - Google is your friend.


Now then ... this aggression that you experienced. The good news is that it was not what I would call unprovoked. "Unprovoked" is much more serious, is generally a hard-wired problem, and usually requires that the dog be put down. Provoked aggression is misbehaving, to put it mildly, and can be corrected with training. Also, I got the impression that you didn't suffer any real damage. If so, that's more good news.



I'm not a professional and even if I was, I couldn't judge your situation from a distance. You should get a professional's opinion for a better assessment - a behaviorist would be best, but they are expensive. A skilled trainer would be good, but a GP vet probably not.


Whatever you do, don't castrate him without researching it.


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## Gabica (Jan 20, 2018)

Seems for me that he got startled by you grabbing to his collar. If it happened from the back, it is rather natural that he grabbed for whatever threatened him without knowing that it was you. Have seen it many times with different breeds, sex, age of dogs which were not aggressive at all. Also the fact that he was hiding right after that is showing that he knew he did wrong.
Again i was not there, so agree with the comment of a behaviorist who could ask you to reconstruct and demonstrate how it exactly happened and analyze it from there. 
I personally never grab and tell at the same time, first I ask him to sit/come to my heel, get his attention in any way. if he does not listen, then there is a consequence of grabbing collar, but by then he expects that there will be a consequence of him not obeying, so i don`t surprise him.

On your vet... well, i would change to another one... i guess there is a reason why you have not neutered him so far.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I do not think neutering is going to fix your problem. If he normally growls, to let you know he's not comfortable. He does have a problem. It's better than a bite, without a warning, but you do need a behaviorist. Regular vets are good at treating a lot of things, but they are not behaviorist. Did your vet do any blood test at the visit?


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## PensnCrows (Nov 9, 2013)

Thank you all for the input. Just to clarify a couple of points.

He kept his boys initially because I wanted to guarantee he got the secondary physical characteristics that a mature male Vizsla has. You know, more square face, etc. After about a year or so, he never gave us any reason to consider castration. He is not being bred so he doesn't really 'need' them for stud reasons. But, at the same time, there was never a reason to remove them. 

Regarding the grabbing of the collar. I did not grab from behind. Had I done that, I would have been more understanding. He was standing in front of me. So he was not really startled when it happened. He was looking right at me when I reached for the collar. Then he bit the outstretched hand.

Regarding the injury. It is relative. Everyone is different. But I have large puncture wounds in the base of my thumb and the entire hand is bruised. So this bite was more than a superficial scratch but not a mauling.

My original post should have been more coherent and detailed. Either way, I agree that it seems odd to out of the blue need castrated. At the same time, if this were to happen to a visitor or my child it would be a different story so I am doing everything withing my power, including getting help from you all, to try to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Thanks so much.


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## PensnCrows (Nov 9, 2013)

texasred said:


> I do not think neutering is going to fix your problem. If he normally growls, to let you know he's not comfortable. He does have a problem. It's better than a bite, without a warning, but you do need a behaviorist. Regular vets are good at treating a lot of things, but they are not behaviorist. Did your vet do any blood test at the visit?



No labs at all. I was a little surprised but she said there was no reason to draw blood as his physical exam was normal and he was afebrile.


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

PensnCrows said:


> We have a wonderful family dog that is 5 years old. He is intact and has never had a major problem related to that


Keep repeating this to yourself in spite of this unfortunate incident. And get a new vet.

Vizslas are living creatures and as much as we anthropomorphize them and train them and think we know and "own" them...we do not.

If your guy had a history of aggressive behaviors, the first thing to do is get a good trainer to take a look and work with both of you. But, removing his testicles for one..and the first (and probably only) instance of this is extreme and frankly, unnecessary and unprofessional.

Have some chocolate or your favorite comfort food and cuddle with him and go on a long hike to tomorrow with just him and recall what a good boy and good friend he is and move forward. We all have bad days. Try to figure out what it was about that person or combination of factors that might have set him off and try to avoid it. But, unless it happens again, don't over react and subject him to something that probably would not prevent a recurrence, and would have other unwanted health effects as well.


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## Scrappy (Jan 1, 2018)

I don’t think neutering will change anything. It will not change the personality of the dog or make him calmer - I agree with the other people who responded to you and would look for another vet.

You said the dog seemed disoriented when this happened and even went inside the stranger’s car. Did the stranger have a dog (even if not with him at the time?). Could the dog be a female and possibly in heat? That may explain the excitability and the dog wanting to be around the stranger and getting in his car.

The third possibility, and I’m only saying this because you said the dog seemed disoriented and I have experience with this from a previous dog, is that your Vizsla may have experienced a mild seizure. This would make him act disoriented and possibly bite down on your hand. You said the vet found him in perfect health so I am assuming his kidney and liver values were checked and came back fine. In that case, IF his was a mild seizure it could be caused by epilepsy. There is no test for epilepsy and it will only be diagnosed as such if all other tests come back ok.

Epilepsy usually begins around the age of 3 so he’s a little old for it to begin, but maybe he’s had other mild episodes that you were not aware of.


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## justintzz (May 10, 2018)

Is it possible that your guest either has or had recently handled a bitch who is in season?


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