# Rough play with other dogs



## ml_g9 (Mar 19, 2014)

I was looking for a bit of advice about my V girl, Darcy! I've posted before and got great advice. 

She has just turned one, her recall is pretty good now (90% of the time) she won't run to people and even on a trail she'll come back to whistle. But as soon as she sees another dog, there's no getting Her back. She'll want to play, have a game of chase and then I can always get her back after that. But obviously not every dog wants to play. And DARCY plays rough!!! She's still mouthy when playing and always very vocal too. She plays with other Vs so it's fine then. She also goes with a dog walker once a week for socialisation and she has no concerns about her. I don't mind her looking for fun but wish I could calm her down a little? Will that come with time. 

We met a man in the woods we were walking today and his border collie was running along with a stick and did not want to play at all! But DARCY was barking and trying to nip (I think) at it. Anyway she ended up following it for 100 yards and I shouted her back, she was trying to get the stick off the dog but the owner bent down, grabbed Darcy by the head and pushed her away. She then just came running back. Now obviously I can't be certain of what she was upto but he could've shouted something rather than pushing her? I'm not sure if I should be annoyed at him or at myself for darcys recall not being 100% yet! And when I told her not to play she ignored me! He wasn't a friendly dog walker - he never even acknowledged me when I said hi. 

Sorry for the essay and rant but just looking for another opinion! Thanks in advance


----------



## organicthoughts (Oct 9, 2012)

Keep on working on it and be consistent with your expectations even if she isn't meeting them. In time she will.

My dog is gregarious as it gets and used to have a mind of his own off leash with distractions. Now at almost three years old I can call him off anything. It was almost after 2 years old that I noticed he was more conscious and communicative throughout distractive moments.

In regards to the collie man. Just forget about it. Grumpy people aren't worth a moment of your time and energy.

Good luck with Darcy!


----------



## Spy Car (Sep 3, 2014)

My very playful (just turned 1 year old) V is probably 90-95% by voice, but is 100% by whistle.

Since you say you say she's excellent with a whistle...bring a whistle 

Bill


----------



## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

I would keep her on a long lead, so you can physically enforce recall.


----------



## lyra (Nov 2, 2012)

I read this on another forum:

"I was walking my dog the other day and one of those orange pointer dogs came running up to my dog and started barking and jumping up at my dog. My dog was clearly uninterested but the other dog just wouldn't leave it alone. My dog was carrying a stick which the other dog tried to take from her and then the other dog started nipping at my dog. The owner clearly had no control over their dog as it was completely ignoring their commands. I was concerned how this would develop so pushed the other dog away and thankfully it returned to her owner. The owner didn't even have the good manors to apologise!"

Point made? 

We love our dogs. We love the breed. We choose Vizslas for that 'full on, always on' experience. They are fantastic dogs...to us! But we share our public spaces with people who have very different views about dogs and it is our responsibility (and in the UK a legal obligation) to have our dogs under control and you don't yet. Just like every other Vizsla owner at some stage!

At seven months our first Vizsla, Lyra, went from 98% recall to about 0% in the space of a month. We were those people you laugh at at the beach as they desperately try and get their dog back on the lead. Our best tactic was to hide in the public toilets and wait for the Velcro urge to overpower her and drive her to find us! I'm sure there are posts on the forum about it.

We have tried a few solutions. Long lead is the standard solution. We tried it for 6-7 weeks without any improvement. **** girl was just too smart. She was perfect when she knew she was 'in range' but as soon as we started trying giving her a little freedom she was off! We got to the stage where we just hated going for walks and we don't think she was enjoying them either. We did a few months of weekly 1 to 1 training sessions with a gun dog trainer. As inexperienced dog owners these were really useful and taught us an enormous amount about training a dog. Puppy classes are all very well for the purpose they serve but they don't prepare you for handling an intelligent, wilful, hunting dog like a V!

We still couldn't get the level of recall we wanted though and invested in a good quality e-collar. We were very reluctant to do this. They are controversial and aren't common in the UK (they are even banned in Wales). I have never seen another dog with one. After buying it we left it in the case for weeks until a very bad day when we decided that 'enough was enough'. I won't go into their use as their are some very good threads here but what a revelation! Within days her recall was immeasurably better. More importantly, Lyra showed no distress or change in character from its use - its exactly what other people report but you never quite believe until you see it for yourself. Within a couple of weeks we hardly needed to use it and after about four months we no longer used it.

Moving on to Ruta, our 14 month rescue. She is big, muscular girl with a heart of gold that we quickly discovered she wanted to share with everybody! Out on a walk she would run up to *everybody*, jump up at them and try and lick their faces. Her recall in these situations was zero. Bad enough with adults but their were a few children who were pinned to the floor while being licked all over. :-[ It didn't help that we got her in the winter so the recipients were left with black muddy paw prints all over their clothing. I can only thank members of the public for their tolerance! 

We chose quiet walks but you still come across people so we had to address this issue urgently. This time their was no hesitation using an e-collar and again we had the same rapid improvement. To us, the biggest advantage of an e-collar as a training device is the dog retains total freedom so can enjoy their outings to the maximum. Our dogs range enormously, they are often out of site, that just wouldn't be possible with a long lead.

Sorry, I've digressed a bit. In summary your options for improving recall are:
Treat based positive reinforcement 
Long lead
One to one training for you and your dog
E-Collar

Good luck


----------



## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Once again - you go back 2 BASIC training !! PIKE @ 6yrs old - still sees his WHOA board 1 or 2 times a year - just 2 reinforce the commands he grew up on - @ 14mo old - we got our 1st E- collar - V's are Very ritualistic - so V4 we go out the front door - I put on my whistle lanyard - PIKE sits & waits 4 his E-collar - we always leave the house @ heel & enter @ heel - this is a pain in the Azz but works -


----------



## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

ml - sorry - the other pups owner was RIGHT - his pup under control - yours was not - why ask the ? - HE COULD OF - he protected his pup - you were never in the equation - ignore U - would of done the same **** thing - rather than say - GET YOUR PUP UNDER CONTROL !!!!!


----------



## Chaos911 (Oct 30, 2013)

Maybe it's me but I'm a cautious dog walker. I don't openly greet all dogs or their owners, esp when abruptly greeted (unless it's a pup) nor do I encourage/tolerate that in Blaze. And I don't think that makes me ' grumpy'. Just that I like my dog under control and yours. And trust me in training process neither myself or Blaze were without 'bad behavior' 
Just saying... :/


----------



## dextersmom (Oct 29, 2013)

ml_g9 said:


> We met a man in the woods we were walking today and his border collie was running along with a stick and did not want to play at all! But DARCY was barking and trying to nip (I think) at it. Anyway she ended up following it for 100 yards and I shouted her back, she was trying to get the stick off the dog but the owner bent down, grabbed Darcy by the head and pushed her away. She then just came running back.
> 
> He wasn't a friendly dog walker - he never even acknowledged me when I said hi.


Sorry but I would have had the same reaction as the dog walker (and often have!). If another dog comes flying and barking at my (on leash) dog, I usually crouch down in front of my dogs and yell at it. I wouldn't hesitate to push a dog away. I've seen people push Dex away if he's trying to jump on them and I have no problem with it (except that it encourages him!). If the dog is loose but approaches calmly, I give Dex as much leash as I can and try to be cheerful. Dex gets nervous when dogs run at him while he's on leash and he's usually always still friendly if I give him slack in the leash and act relaxed. But if a dog comes at us aggressively (even if just too aggressively friendly) and I tighten the leash, he gets very protective and will snap. I am never very nice to the other dog's owners, haha. I just try to get out of the situation as quickly as possible, even if it's rude to ignore their apologies. Most of the time it's little yappy dogs that run up barking like banshees and while it wouldn't be my fault if my dog were to seriously bite one (not that I think they ever would but you never know) I would hate for myself and my dogs to have been put in that situation by the dog's owners. 

I don't believe most dogs on leash are friendly. Too many of them are protective or feel trapped. I absolutely will no longer let my dogs sniff hello with another strange dog if one or both are leashed. A lot of people see nothing wrong with letting their dogs get near my leashed dogs and it drives me CRAZY. 

My pet peeve is when other people shout "Oh, he's friendly" when their dog comes charging at my leashed dogs. I usually shout back, "Well, mine are not" - even though about 75% of the time they are (and 100% when they are off leash). I don't know why other people assume that the leashed dog is social and won't hurt their dog. In my opinion, for the safety of your dog alone you need to be able to recall them away from leashed dogs.


----------



## dextersmom (Oct 29, 2013)

Lyra said:


> "I was walking my dog the other day and one of those orange pointer dogs came running up to my dog and started barking and jumping up at my dog. My dog was clearly uninterested but the other dog just wouldn't leave it alone. My dog was carrying a stick which the other dog tried to take from her and then the other dog started nipping at my dog. The owner clearly had no control over their dog as it was completely ignoring their commands. I was concerned how this would develop so pushed the other dog away and thankfully it returned to her owner. The owner didn't even have the good manors to apologise!"
> 
> Point made?


Well said!!


----------



## ml_g9 (Mar 19, 2014)

Thanks everyone for all your opinions and thank you Lyra for the advice on continuing Darcy's training. And thanks to Einspanner as well - a long lead has been bought for Darcy - only on-lead walks for her now! It was advice on training that I was after! On the matter of the man - in the year I've walked Darcy and previously the 13years I walked my own border collie in the same park/woods/hill area - he's only the 2nd person in all that time that hasn't acknowledged as he went passed! In fact most dog walkers are all friends now and stop to chat every day. I guess I must be lucky that I meet a lot of lovely, friendly and sociable people on our walks. And as for an e collar, we all have our own opinions on them - that I won't go into on here. Thanks again, everyone - it's very much appreciated the time you've all taken to reply.


----------



## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Most people on my leashed walks would probably consider me unfriendly.
I say or wave hi, but keep walking.
If a unknown dog tries to run up to mine, they don't reach my dogs.
I whoa or put my dogs on sit, and place myself in front of them.
The dog in question needs to go back to its owner, even if that means me leashing it up, and taking it back. So far this has worked out well for me, and no harm has came to my dogs or theirs. 
If the other dog did get past me, I would give mine the release command. I will not have them stay on sit only to get ambushed. Most dog owners do not want to hurt your dog, but they will protect their dog.


----------



## ml_g9 (Mar 19, 2014)

I don't think Darcy has ever run up to a dog that is leashed either apart from when we meet friends with their dogs and they haven't let them off leash yet. In the area we walk 99%dogs are off leash and I've never come across that problem yet! As for the "grumpy" I would reckon a wave or a hi is friendly, however ignoring someone and walking straight passed them when they've said hi is downright rude (in my manners anyway!) and as for the stick, Darcy was initially playing with the stick swimming in a pond and then the collie jumped in and was a stronger swimmer and got the stick and the collie ran away to catch up with the owner with the stick and Darcy chased. I, however, did not car a jot that another dog had taken the stick she was playing with considering we were in the woods and as you can imagine there were a lot of other sticks! But anyway, Darcy now has a long lead and will be walked with that! Thanks again everyone for the help!


----------



## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Ml - stick stealing is a MAJOR CRIME 2 PIKE - if I know the other owner & pup we let the pups work it out - PIKE lives off lead - he is never allowed to approach a pup that we do not know well - that is why you work 2 get recall 2 100%


----------



## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

We are not downing you, or Darcy.
Things happen, and then you know what area to step up training.
None of our dogs were born with a good recall, or a stay until released.
They are, and will always be a work in progress.


----------



## Spy Car (Sep 3, 2014)

I wish you and Darcy had run into us, because Chester lives to have playmates like her.

Bill (a non-grump...on this issue :)


----------



## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

I once provided a foster home for a black lab mix named Willow. Who knows how she got that way, but Willow was extremely dog-aggressive. I kept her away from my own dog, and of course, walked her on leash only. If another dog, off leash, ran up to greet her... it would have been big trouble! So you never know. 

p.s. You know the old saying,
_"Discretion is the better part of valor."_
Meaning: It is better to avoid a dangerous situation than to confront it.


----------



## lyra (Nov 2, 2012)

It's been interesting reading the different replies to this thread. We tend to think of dog owners as a homogeneous group and that other V owners will have a similar outlook but this is clearly ridiculous. Just as our dogs are different so are the owners. We all have different ideas of what is acceptable dog (and owner) behaviour.

As well as individual differences there may also be cultural influences involved. What country we live in, whether we work our dogs or if they are solely companions etc, etc.

I'm with Bill and ml_g9 (that's a mouthfull) and to me a walk is an opportunity to meet other dogs and their owners. It has got me thinking though and I must confess I am guilty of letting Ruta go up to leashed dogs. I've always been of the attitude that if it snaps at her then that is a lesson she needs to learn. I've never considered that the owner may be annoyed by it. I'm now a reformed character! No more leashed dog meetings for the girls.


----------



## dextersmom (Oct 29, 2013)

Lyra said:


> I'm with Bill and ml_g9 (that's a mouthful) and to me a walk is an opportunity to meet other dogs and their owners.


I love meeting dogs and their owners and agree that's a great part of owning a dog. I'm not the kind of person to just start randomly chatting and strolling with strangers but I do it all the time at the (off leash) dog park (or horse show - I guess animals make me more social!). I feel bad abruptly ending a conversation to call my dog or get closer to them if a new dog has just come in, etc. but I do it ALL the time. I know most of our dog park friends probably find me to be rude for that reason (and because I will straight up leave without waiting around to say goodbye if I don't like a certain dog, etc.) since they are more there to chat then supervise their dogs (which are all well behaved and usually stay close to them anyways, unlike my two ). I guess to me, it's just that the safety of my dog takes precedence. Hopefully they know me well enough at this point to realize I'm just a cautious dog mom and not trying to offend them 

I should also add that Dexter was bit badly on the face as a pup by a leashed Saint Bernard pup. My husband took him to the dog park and didn't notice that the other dog was leashed (unusual and not allowed in the park - he would have left if he had been able to see him coming in). I guess the pup had some fear issues that were probably compounded by being on a leash. Dexter went to say hello and his enthusiasm was probably overwhelming for a timid pup. The owner was super apologetic, had no idea her dog would do such a thing, and paid 50% of Dex's vet bill (he needed a few stitches). She actually wanted to pay the whole bill but we felt it was our fault too since his recall wasn't 100% (my hubby tried to call him away when he saw the dog was leashed but Dex only came halfway and then turned back to greet the dog anyways). I doubt it would have happened if the other pup was off leash. So the whole leashed dog lesson really hits home with me! 

I love to talk dogs, but I won't hesitate to be grumpy or abrupt if I'm worried about the safety of my pups


----------

