# Puppy mills and rescue



## Bob Engelhardt (Feb 14, 2012)

There was a V pup recently found in Allentown PA and rescued by New Hope V Rescue. The story is here:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/New-Hope-Vizsla-Rescue/114203798645032

The owner was found and New Hope posted the pup's story: that it had been shipped to PA from the midwest, using a broker and how despicable it all was. Further: "This illustrates why we had 30 Vizslas in New Hope Vizsla Rescue in 2013." Meaning, I guess, that people buy Vs online, without doing their homework, and abandon them when they find out what it's all about.

Now, my question: can you tell if a rescue V has come from a puppy mill? Do rescues generally have provenance? If you don't know who a rescue's breeder is, should you assume that it's a mill puppy and avoid it?

This is important to us as we're looking for an adult V, which most likely will come from rescue.

Thanks,
Bob


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

in an ideal world Bob, a potential V owner should have access to visit the breeder of the pup they want to buy,,yep, that's an ideal scenario, the reality as we know can sometimes be very different. My girl for instance was a rescue and I have absolutely no idea of her lineage only that she came from a "breeder" that needed to eradicate all history of the litter, (personally I'd love to see this guy in a clay trap and then shout "pull"..),,,as it's turned out Ruby has found a good home with us, she still has some issues with regards to strangers but not as bad as she was, she gets a varied exercise stimuli, one day we can be out hunting, the next having a picnic by the river with the family.
But,,and this is a "Big But" for me, I'd be hesitant about bringing in an older rescue dog without any papers that show it's lineage, purely for the reason and safety of my two young lads that are prone to really pushing Ruby too the limits. As I say that's just my take on it.


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

Sometimes it's just a "crap shoot", so to speak, Bob. My boy Willie was in the dog pound, a very high kill "shelter". He had been picked up by Animal Control as a lost dog, running stray in the dead of a very cold winter. I had absolutely no knowledge of his history, his breeder, where he came from, etc. These are things I can never know. I just knew that I didn't want him to get the needle... so I saved him. He has repaid me a hundredfold. Perfect temperament, perfect house manners, and an overall delightful boy! ;D ;D ;D


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## Bob Engelhardt (Feb 14, 2012)

mswhipple said:


> Sometimes it's just a "crap shoot", so to speak, Bob. My boy Willie was in the dog pound, a very high kill "shelter". ...


Is it unusual for a V to be in a shelter? Aren't they usually spotted by V lovers and plucked out, to go through a V rescue? I guess that I get that impression from the New Hope facebook page, but what I don't see is the ones that aren't spotted. I'm just wondering if I should be more actively searching shelters.

Do you think now that you were taking a big risk then & didn't know it? Or did you see it as a crap shoot & know that there was a chance that you were getting a problem dog?

So many questions, but this finding an adult V seems more complicated than finding a puppy.

Bob


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

It IS unusual to spot a Vizsla in a high kill shelter, and the rescue groups do a fantastic job of plucking them out before they are "put down". This particular dog pound is so severe, though, that I didn't want to risk it. I was just the first one to reach him.

I knew very well at the time that I was taking a risk, but unlike harrigab, I have no kids in the house. I was willing to work with whatever I got. I was also familiar with the legendary temperament of the breed, so it wasn't really such a big risk. Willie is gentle and loving, and in fact, I have never heard him growl... not once... and he rarely barks. But you are right, Bob, he could have been a problem dog. I had made the mental commitment to work with him, no matter what. As it turned out, he was just lost. 

I knew I wanted a young adult Vizsla, and it took me a couple of years of online searching to find him! I was diligent, checking often on petfinder.com and other such sites. All of a sudden one night, there he was... starved and waiting for me to come and save him!! I was there the next morning when the dog pound opened.


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## Bob Engelhardt (Feb 14, 2012)

mswhipple said:


> ... I was also familiar with the legendary temperament of the breed, so it wasn't really such a big risk. ...


That's a good point! Also very unlikely that he had been trained as an attack dog - they are not exactly gangsta dogs <G>.



mswhipple said:


> I knew I wanted a young adult Vizsla, and it took me a couple of years of online searching to find him! ...


Oh no, I didn't want to hear that. We are also looking for an adult and I so miss having a V around that I don't know if I could wait that long. I'm already getting impatient & I've only been looking for a short while. 



mswhipple said:


> I was diligent, checking often on petfinder.com and other such sites. All of a sudden one night, there he was... starved and waiting for me to come and save him!! I was there the next morning when the dog pound opened.


That's sweet. I bet you have a lot of moments when you're with him, you recall that day, and think how lucky you both were.

Thanks for the input.

Bob


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

The Reality is that dogs in rescue don't come with papers. I think, Ive fostered maybe two dogs with "papers". Usually people with papered dogs will try and sell them. Or they often get them from responsible breeders who will take them back. But the dogs that end up in rescue are usually from people who arent responsible enough to properly take care of them. They arent the type that spend a lot of money on a papered dog.
Of course there are exceptions but these are just generalizations.
Rescues are often crap shoots but if they are through a good rescue, then the dogs will have some manners and housetraining, utd on shots, or what have you. Foster dogs are treated and trained just like my own..
Dogs directly from a shelter may be more of a risk and take more time to accumulate to your home but they can. 
Dogs in a shelter are usually there for a reason. That reason is usually the stupidity of humans.


As far as pulling dogs from shelters, I think that the biggest problem is even knowing that they are there. And then the logistics of getting the dog out.
Often they can be misrepresented as far as breed is concerned..
Sometimes rescues just dont even know that they are there and the shelters sometimes dont contact rescue..its the responsibility of rescue to find them. So sometimes we dont even know they are there.


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

I know, Bob, two years is a long time to search... but I already had another dog at home with me at the time, so I wasn't completely "dogless". I couldn't bear that!!

Yes, I feel lucky to have Willie, and have often felt a little sympathy for the people who lost him... but that sympathy is limited. They were responsible for his safety, and failed him terribly. He was not too far away from death by starvation when he was picked up. 

Anyway, don't give up. Keep plugging away and you will find your next loving canine companion. It will happen!!


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

*Re: Re: Puppy mills and rescue*



mswhipple said:


> Sometimes it's just a "crap shoot", so to speak, Bob. My boy Willie was in the dog pound, a very high kill "shelter". He had been picked up by Animal Control as a lost dog, running stray in the dead of a very cold winter. I had absolutely no knowledge of his history, his breeder, where he came from, etc. These are things I can never know. I just knew that I didn't want him to get the needle... so I saved him. He has repaid me a hundredfold. Perfect temperament, perfect house manners, and an overall delightful boy! ;D ;D ;D


While Ozkar was a breeder pup, Astro was a re home at 6 months, but again from a breeder and all known lineage. 

Zsa Zsa my GSP however, was a rescue at 13 months with no known history and Luke you Mswhipple, it was me or likely a needle as she was a bit err...challenging at first. But, as with your boy, she's amazing. I love my boys, but Zsa Zsa like any good woman  , has slowly chipped away at me and now we have a very close and unique bond. That bloody Roo near gave me heart failure though.......


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