# Need urgent help



## VNeb (Jun 13, 2015)

Hi all, 

First off, I read a bunch before choosing a V, a bunch after getting my little girl, and even more with her health and behavioral problems. So much of what i read doesnt describe the V i know...

I have a 13 week old female V, with micropthalia (abmornally small eyes). She sees quite well, but does have some blind spots. 

Not long after getting her at about 10 weeks, my wife and i noticed her dominant and slightly agressive behavior. Since then it has just gotten worse. She bit me when I tried to take away a choking hazard (i got it away anyway ... bleeding), she gets WAY too rough with her play (jumping and nipping at the legs, hands and even at the face), and she gets angry when made to heel and starts barking/jumping/nipping. She doesnt respond to "Alpha rolls" and continues the behavior (so we stopped trying), nor does time-out change the behavior (been working that for at least two weeks). 

We love her, but this is not what our research said a V would be. They were supposed to be soft dogs and very sensitive, but she gets quite mean and knows when she is doing it. She doesnt show any signs of regret after doing something bad and going in time-out (like my old dogs). I'm at wits end. We wanted a dog for the family we plan to start soon and to use as a therapy dog (we are both in the medical field). I also wanted a running companion ... Vs seemed like the perfect fit. 

I do have experience training dogs in regulation and obedience, but it was a little over a decade ago, and with smaller dogs (under 20lbs). I'm following the "book" re: positive reinforcement, treat-trading, etc, but feel like i'm getting nowhere. 

I never thought I'd be the type to send a dog back, and it is breaking my heart, but our V wearing my wife and I out with her unwillingness to be "nice". Shes almost always either being overly-aggressive or sleeping with very little in between. Not sure if her limited sight contributes or what. 

I've reached out to trainers but they will cost between $500 and $1000 for three sessions. If it didnt work and I ended up having to let the breeder try to work with her instead, it will cost me that much (at least) in shipping too. 

Any help would be appreciated. I'm so sad and at a loss for what to try next. This is not what Vs were billed as ... and i worry for having young kids (let alone dreams of working her for therapy). 

Has anyone dealt with a V like this? What did you do? Is this just her base personality and we got a dog that wont be good with our future kids?


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

> she gets WAY too rough with her play (jumping and nipping at the legs, hands and even at the face), and she gets angry when made to heel and starts barking/jumping/nipping


Rough play is normal for a V puppy, and I don't know why so many breeders do not let people interested in the breed know this.


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## chilithevizsla (Apr 2, 2014)

VNeb said:


> Hi all,
> 
> First off, I read a bunch before choosing a V, a bunch after getting my little girl, and even more with her health and behavioral problems. So much of what i read doesnt describe the V i know...
> 
> ...


First thing I have to say is YOU ARE NOT ALONE, it is very common for people with Vs to get into this state of mind and end up on forums/groups crying and not sure if they can go on.

If you did extensive research I'm not sure how you didn't come across "shark attacks" atleast once but that's in the past and there's no point lecturing you about any of this, just offer help.

I can assure you, at least in the beginning this was NOT dominant or aggressive behavior, this is play behavior. I can say that your alpha rolling and harsh treatment has likely escalated the problem for you and maybe the dog is aggressive now but at this age I still think that it's unlikely.

This is completely fixable with good, positive management of her behavior.

When she's fresh from waking up is her play normal? Some biting on your hand is completely normal, this is how pups play but it should be easily re-directed to a toy or another game. It may have gotten to the point she is easily over threshold/over excited that it's very hard to play games with her because she's been frustrated in the past so I would switch to games where the energy is focus AWAY from you for a while. Things like tossing for her to things, two of you standing close and keep calling her so she runs back and forward to you, throwing treats in short grass/rug for her to sniff out, flirt pole close to the ground to limit jumping. ANYTHING that gets her energy away from your body. While this is period is happening put food stuff on your hand (Peanut butter etc) and get her to lick it off and before she's done take your hand away so she doesn't accidentally bite.

If she does get over threshold (This is when the biting seems wild, uncontrollable and mostly happens the dog is tired) you need to very briefly remove your presence from her (don't let her whine and get anxious about your leaving) and come back with some treats and a clicker. The next day you need to make sure you do the following method BEFORE she gets over tired. I use a method called puppy zen but she might be slightly too young to try this but give it a go. What I do is put a treat in my hand so she can sniff it, then close my hand so she can't get to it, she might try and bite the hand, if she does sit on it briefly and say no in a low voice and then represent the hand. The idea of puppy zen is for her to look at the hand with the treat in and when she looks away (preferably at your face) click and give her the treat. You can also just try a very short session of teaching sit/paw or something she knows well and then at the end of the 2-3 minute period lead her to her bed and get her to go in... wait and then slowly release treats to her until she's falling asleep. This is actually teaching her an off switch because instead of getting all worked up when she's tired, you're teaching her to go to her bed and sleep it off.

If you do not like my method that's fair enough, im sure someone will offer an alternative but whatever you choose make sure it's not harsh, these dogs do not do well with harsh punishment and make sure you stick to it, this isn't a problem that will be fixed in two weeks unfortunately.

All the best

Chris


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Vn - feel your PAIN !!!!! - u did say the pup has a medical blind spot problem - so everything u do is eye 2 eye - say this /or/out - get 2 work - everything is I2I - V calm - trust is what u build everything on - past that - GOOD LUCK !!!!!


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## CrazyCash (Jul 12, 2012)

The puppy stage is cute but can also be incredibly frustrating! When I first got my guy I really thought that I had an aggressive little devil dog and I wondered if I'd made a mistake. Fast forward a couple years and I have the most lovable goofball that is not aggressive in any way. 

Do a search on the forum for "shark attacks" and that will give you some ideas how to deal with the biting. My only other advice is to hang on for awhile because one day you'll wake up and realize that she's out grown the shark attacks! Keeping putting the time into her, train her her, bond with her and snuggle with her and you really will end up with that great dog you hoped for. Vs aren't an easy dog (especially in the beginning) but you'll soon realize that they are like no dog you've ever had before!


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## lilyloo (Jun 20, 2012)

100% agree with Chilithevizsla and CrazyCash.

When our girl was a pup she had many of the behaviors you are describing. I knew I wasn't supposed to be harsh with her at all from reading up on Vizslas. There were a few times though that I was just so frustrated and raised my voice more than I should have, or did the alpha roll you are referring to and it ALWAYS made things worse. Always. She would respond by lashing out and biting at my arms/hands or she'd just go bat crazy and bark, run around (on the furniture where she isn't supposed to be), etc.

We also went through a phase with her where we couldn't walk across the room without her "attacking us". I had bite marks on my legs, holes in my pants. It was awful! Definitely search "shark attacks" on the forum and read on on how to cope with it. It peaks around 10-15 weeks and is mostly gone by 20 weeks.

Hang in there. You don't have a broken V, you have what seems like a perfectly normal one. 

Something I just thought of --- when you reach for something she isn't supposed to have do you avoid her blind spots? You could be startling her. Try trading what she isn't supposed to have for a toy or a treat. Is she getting enough mental and physical exercise? Tired puppy is a good puppy.


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## Copperboy426 (Sep 7, 2014)

In my experience, between the 4-6 month mark there's a ton of change. He'll still be mischievous, but he'll be much more interested in simply playing with you like you thought he would be.

Don't give up. I was in the same boat, trust me. Copper is 2 now and I don't know what I'd do without him.

If you were to have a baby 10 months from today, your vizsla will be just fine.


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## VNeb (Jun 13, 2015)

Thanks for the replies. I definitely did see the stuff on Shark attacks ... i guess i misunderstood the severity of them. I'm covered in cuts and almost needed stitches from trying to take the stick she was eating. This seemed significantly worse than what i read, but i guess its not. 

And lest anyone misunderstand, she only ever got the alpha roll after either making me or the wife bleed and *then* not stopping. As that didnt work (only tried it twice over two days) and seemed to make things worse, I stopped and just switched to timeout (as walking away/ignoring her just led to ripped clothes or cuts on legs). 

She does definitely get worse as the day progresses, but I have a hard time getting her to sleep other than for 30 to 1 hour about 4 times throughout the day. 

What should I do about the food guarding and/or when she has something "bad" in her mouth? Food has a higer value to her than the milkbones so trading for a treat there has been ineffective (i try to have a live treat available when i know she'll have food). What do you do when they get a hold of somethign bad (she loves going after the mushrooms) when you have nothing in trade?

Sorry for the emotion this am. She wasnt up 15 minutes before i was bleeding from a bite to the hand and she was in timeout whining. I'm grateful we dont have kids yet. I wouldnt want her around a kid. Just mind-boggled she is SO different from all the other breeds I've trained in the past. WAY harder. 

As a side note - any advise on keeping her quiet in her kennel in the car? She can literally whine at the top of her lungs for the entire 5 min drive to the park... I'm not sure if i'm going def or just starting to tune it out.


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## VNeb (Jun 13, 2015)

Oh, a seperate thought. She has been VERY easy to train obedience. When she is "ready to work" she is amazing. Sit, Stay, Down (still needs the motion, but close) Come, and Find It (for a thrown toy since she cant see them well), are all way further along than i would have guessed. 

Now if she would just be willing to play when my hand isnt involved. 

Thanks for the replies. I feel a bit better ... hate wishing away her puppy months though. That was the age i loved the most with my other dogs.


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## Zoton (Feb 4, 2014)

Just mind-boggled she is SO different from all the other breeds I've trained in the past. WAY harder. 

*Yep and the rewards are also way better ,stick with it *


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## chilithevizsla (Apr 2, 2014)

VNeb said:


> Thanks for the replies. I definitely did see the stuff on Shark attacks ... i guess i misunderstood the severity of them. I'm covered in cuts and almost needed stitches from trying to take the stick she was eating. This seemed significantly worse than what i read, but i guess its not.
> 
> And lest anyone misunderstand, she only ever got the alpha roll after either making me or the wife bleed and *then* not stopping. As that didnt work (only tried it twice over two days) and seemed to make things worse, I stopped and just switched to timeout (as walking away/ignoring her just led to ripped clothes or cuts on legs).
> 
> ...


Shark attacks are normal but they shouldn't be doing this much damage so she might be very frustrated about play at this point so you need to really calm it all down.

For the resource guarding I would wait until she's in her ready to be trained mood, give her a toy/bone which is lowish value and then try and trade up. If this doesn't work then when she has the thing you want go to another thing and act super interested in it (making lots of noise) and she should come over and drop her item, give lots of praise!

If your dog is doing well with obedience training and can focus for longish periods I would switch this to your default method for tiring the dog, maybe do some calming training and then begin with playing rough or whatever game she gets too excited about, try and end the game before she gets over threshold thought to avoid the nipping then end again with a calming training session like puppy zen and get her into bed for her much needed rest. These dogs need to be taught an off switch or they become nightmares at settling in the future.

Re: Car issue, desensitize her to going in the car, lift her in, do some basic training then lift her out, gradually extend the period. Is the vocalization stress or pure excitement? If it's excitement then you can just go for a quick loop in the car, preferably a root which is quick enough so she doesn't start getting excited and then praise when she has a successful trip without the noise. If the only time she's in the car is if she's going for a walk it's likely she's going to continue getting very excited for her outings in it.

I personally do not like using time outs for this breed, they're already prone to separation anxiety naturally so using a method that preys on separating your self entirely is likely to stress the dog out more than teach it a lesson and possibly create some separation anxiety further down the line. I don't have a study to prove this but it's something I fear could easily happen but if it's working for you I would keep doing it.


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

I had to report my puppy to the authorities for a cut on my hand that was bad enough but did not require stitches. She tore 2 sets of work uniform pants and numerous t shirts. Dharma liked attacking people's bums. It was difficult to turn your back on her and walk away when you got attacked front and back! She is now 2 years old and is absolutely beautiful and well behaved. Just stick it out and understand why she is the way she is. Be consistent and be loving but firm. You will in the end get what you put in out.


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## jean (Feb 17, 2015)

I would experiment with increasing nap/sleep time if possible. 

My breeder sent around this link when the litter was about 13 weeks old, and I found it to be true for our pup: http://www.ultimatepuppy.com/2015/06/myth-buster-4/

My puppy really only has the wild nipping moments when he is overtired. The same issue could come up with under stimulation - but people who have viszla pups usually are aware of the high mental training / stimulation needs. 

Also, it has gotten a lot better by around 4 months old!


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## Jrod (Dec 12, 2012)

Hello Vneb,
Every response here has great information on how to deal with the issues you've seen. The only other thing I would like to add is patience. Like they've mentioned previously dealing with the unwanted behavior will be very trying on your patience. If you get frustrated while playing or training sometimes the best thing to do is stop to collect your calm. V's are very in sync with your emotions and can feel that frustration which will only fuel their naughtyness.

One of the best peices of advice given to my wife and I when we got Miles was, try to remember they are just a puppy and your's has only been alive for 13 weeks. To keep it in perspective, ask yourself, would you expect a 13 week old child to understand what you're trying to teach your pup?!

Its also easy to compare behavior to dogs you've owned in the past but remember V's are like humans and their personalities are unique. Hang in there, don't give up and remember if you want to vent there many sympathetic ears here on the V forums!

Jrod


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

Let me add a though, b/c what you're describing here sounds like a bit more than mere puppy hood. 

Your puppy unfortunately has a physical condition that could very well be exacerbating if not causing her excessive aggression. If she cannot see well, she likely cannot understand well, and as a result, she's acting out of a lack of information (or misinformation)..and fear. They know when they are not 'Getting it', and that is very scary for them. She might be living in a tense state of constantly being startled by new, unexpected stimuli.

I'd highly recommend you find a canine ophthalmologist (yes, they do exist) and have her eyes thoroughly evaluated to determine exactly how limited her abilities are and what the correct course of treatment should be.

Sorry, having a puppy should be mostly joyful, and any time there's a physical issue that really interferes.


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