# Vizsla Momma



## san24 (Aug 27, 2012)

I`ve been researching Vizslas for some time. I`m thinking of putting down a deposit to reserve a puppy. What do you think about these dogs. The one at the back will be mom. The breeder has a lot of happy customers. I just wanted to get an opinion if whats seen in the pictures represent the breed. Whats the breed standard for color and snout shape? I see snouts of different shapes, and the ones in the picture are squarer if that makes sense.

Let me know your thoughts.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

I think judging a breeding based on a photograph of a dog sitting suffers extreme shortcomings. If you offered more information like -

Registered names of Sire and Dam
Pedigree of the proposed litter.
Health checks and results of the Sire and Dam
Have you personally spoken with the people who have purchased pups prior?
Have you witnessed the dogs or had someone you know and trust witness the dogs performing in the areas of interest, ie show, agility, field, etc.?
Have you seen either/both of their prior offspring if any? If there were - how old are they now ? How did the health tests of the offspring fare?
What is the breeder's purpose and reasoning for this particular mating?
What is the breeders contract?
What is the breeders guarantee?

Given that, then we could offer an opinion. Outside that, her head seems more "doggy" than refined. Bitches typically have a more refined quality, but that could just be a poor photo...and it doesn't reflect any of the rest of her structure, bite, etc.

Also note - nowhere did I mention how much did they ask. That's the inconsequential question that most buyers focus on.
Ken


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## SteelCityDozer (Aug 25, 2011)

I'm no expert on standards as far as looks but from these photos I'd say they are a little to "hearty" looking. They don't look lean or refined as someone else used. They almost look like they have some other thicker breed mixed in. But again I'm not an expert or breeder of any sort.


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

> I`ve been researching Vizslas for some time.





> Whats the breed standard for color and snout shape?


I see a contradiction. Take a look at the AKC standard: http://www.akc.org/breeds/vizsla/index.cfm 

*SteelCityDozer*, the two Vs pictured look more like Vs in Hungary. My little Pacsi's mom is quite "hearty" looking, too (http://www.aranyvadasz.com/donna.html). Vizslas in America are more dainty and their snouts are not as square.


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## SteelCityDozer (Aug 25, 2011)

Suliko- I was thinking that about them possibly being from Hungary with this look but since I've never seen one in person from there I wasn't sure. I guess now we know why Pasci's such a body builder.


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## san24 (Aug 27, 2012)

I agree, the features look a bit different from what I`ve been seeing on the forms. I did see the Dam and the Sire in person, and the closely represent the pictures.

<b>Ken</b> I will post more details addressing the questions you`ve posted. I just emailed the breeder for more information.

<b>Suliko</b> What contradictions do you see with breed standard? The shape of the muzzle?


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

As far as the photo goes, i think they look very nice... Hungarian Standard. It would be nice to see a side view photo with the dogs standing up.


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## san24 (Aug 27, 2012)

I hope I don`t get into trouble for posting these pictures. Here are some pics of the mom and dad. 

Dads name is Windchill`s Tom Creek`s Joe and mom`s is Cool Creek`s Belle Snowdrop. Hope that helps.


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

san24, you said you had been researching the breed for some time yet you weren't aware of the breed standard, that's all  I think it's important to know the breed standard. It helps to spot any abnormalities when meeting the dogs in person.
What breeder are these Vs from?


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Oh, they are adorable! You will get some help on this forum, sometimes we can be pretentious, but it's just in love for the breed. 

I agree that choosing a breeder simply on a photo is difficult, you will get some really informative answers from the questions asked. Best of luck!


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## san24 (Aug 27, 2012)

Suliko said:


> san24, you said you had been researching the breed for some time yet you weren't aware of the breed standard, that's all  I think it's important to know the breed standard. It helps to spot any abnormalities when meeting the dogs in person.
> What breeder are these Vs from?


Well, I`m aware of the breed standards from what I have gathered online. I don`t have a lot of experience with the breed, so I can have all the standards understood and memorized but when the dogs are seen in person, the judging is still subjective in my case. That's exactly why I`m here, I wanted more opinions.


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

What the pups look like in pictures is important but only a small part of the story. 

You have researched the Breed now research the breeder!!!!

Are they a good breeder???? Have you met the sire and bitch. Are they going to interview you before taking a deposit? Is there a waiting list? Would they have the dog back due to behavioral or health issues? 

Treat the breeder respect but with lots of caution. Do lots of research on the breeder now.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Looking at the picture of the male, it has a different name on the same picture. CH Mollers Touchdown Csonka
Its close to the bottom of the page.
http://windchillacres.com/aboutus.html
Same dog different name.


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## san24 (Aug 27, 2012)

Oops! My bad. Thats the incorrect picture, thats of the grand dad. Here is the correct picture.


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## san24 (Aug 27, 2012)

The breeder contacted me back. She said the girls are bigger around 60lbs. She said she`s tried for 18 years not to have greyhound type muzzle features. The most important part is disposition , standard features ,and ability to hunt. 

"Joe has the Hodags Hunter behind his mom 4 generations back ,that is in all my girls lineage ,far enough back so it is not inter breeding. We in usa have down size the breed from the Hungarian lines,seems folks want smaller. AKC has a good standard and breed chart on their site on what they except in the breed,nothing like Hungary."

I think I`m getting more confused the more I try to understand  Any help will be greatly appreciated.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

The link is to the OFA website. Hope this helps you.
Shire 
http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1489979#animal
Bitch
http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1514414#animal


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

*san24*, are you looking for a pet, to show, or to hunt? Deciding the purpose for your V might help to narrow down on what to focus on in your search. 
60lbs for a bitch seems a lot, but if you hunt with her, the weight doesn't really matter, I imagine. If you show, the more your V adheres to AKC standard the bigger the chance is to win. 
The breeder is right. Hungarian standard is a bit different from AKC standard. Good luck!


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## san24 (Aug 27, 2012)

@Suliko - I`m looking for a good looking healthy dog which represents the breed well. I`m not interested in showing the dog. The dog will be mostly my companion and activity partner. I`m fairly active. I do quite a bit of hiking and am an avid mountain biker. I also plan to do some long distance bicycle trips. I`ve never hunted, but might pick it up. I plan to introduce it to guns early.

Also, I`m looking for a female pup.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Suliko is right in you needing to narrow down what your wanting in a dog.
If I want a big runner I go with Field trial bloodlines.
If I'm looking for a personal gun dog that is close to medium range and waterfowl with it too, then I wouldn't discount a bigger bitch.

I don't know if this will make sense to you. Medium/close range dogs always being bred with the same type will create slower closer range dogs. You need some bigger runners throw in to the mix.


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## veifera (Apr 25, 2012)

I took a look at pedigrees. 

The Sire has outstanding grandparents on his father's line (King Ralph) and great-grandparents on his mother's line (Raany, Kiss Me Kate and further down - Askim). It looks like someone was working hard to combine the show and the field lines with the breedings. You can see that the field lineage is really specialized (only one Dual Champion) but at least the intent to produce versatility is clearly there. 

But then around the Sire's parents level the pedigree suddenly stops showing any titles. I'm sure they're Champions, but it's very obvious they don't rise to the level of dogs like King Ralph or Askim. 

The Dam's pedigree is half-missing. She has the show blood on her father's side. Her mother's side is missing both on OFA and on VizslaPedigrees. So it would be a good idea to ask your breeder about where the Dam comes from.

Another question I would ask is how involved the breeder is personally with proving the dogs. When was the last time she showed or something along those lines. The website is really dated and the breeder's Facebook page suggests she's more focused on her Shelties at the moment. 

To be really brutal and subjective here, my impression is the breeder is having more success with her Shelties than her Vizslas, in terms of proving the quality of the breedings. Keyword - subjective. 

Assuming you're not far from the Wisconsin area, you can get a truly outstanding dog within a short driving distance. There are some exceptional breeders in MI, IL, WI. Even if you only want a pet, you could get a gem of a pet from them. The breeders of two best dogs in these pedigrees (King Ralph and Askim) are both alive and well and live in IL, and continue to produce outstanding dogs. 

Why not contact the breeder referal person at the Vizsla Club of America? The first names from your area they will give you will be outstanding breeders.


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## san24 (Aug 27, 2012)

Thanks for all the help. I have sent a deposit check to the Breeder. I should have my puppy around March. The breeder doesn`t have Shelties. The breeder exclusively has Vizslas. She has the sire. 

I think I`m going to close this discussion, because I don`t want to offend anyone and also, I don`t want to get into trouble for using images without permission.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Suliko said:


> *san24*
> 60lbs for a bitch seems a lot, but if you hunt with her, the weight doesn't really matter, I imagine.


Not that it matters because the decision is made but -

60# is getting to the top range of standard for a dog, let alone a bitch. Most bitches are in the 41-45# range. Most of the dogs are in the mid 50# range that come through here.

Weight most definitely does matter afield. Simple physics - The heavier the weight, the more energy required to move it. The heavier the weight, the more impact on the joints, cardio-pulmonary systems and physical structure. If the bitch is 60# and I was looking to breed it I would certainly be looking for a size cutter Stud.

Linebackers don't run Cross Country marathons for a reason.

Ken


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

*WillowyndRanch*, thank you for the piece of education. I've seen hunting Vs all sizes and never thought to look at it from that perspective. LOVE this forum!


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## flynnandlunasmom (May 28, 2012)

I agree with Ken. Flynn was always in the very low 50's up until about age 5. Now, at almost 8, we are sure to keep his weight under 60 lbs. A good weight for him is about 57-58 lbs now. As he ages, we don't want him to have to carry around any extra weight on his joints because we want him to be as active as possible for as long as possible. Extra weight on him will only make that harder.


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