# Can I move crate to the basement?



## GLHF

Hello. I am writing this (as opposed to sleeping) because 4.5 month old Ruby has been rattling around on her crate and whining for the past hour and a half. Her crate is right on the other side of the bedroom wall. Don't know why she is whining tonight. It's usually her morning routine.

Here is a typical sleep: Pur her in crate around 9:30 or 10:00 PM. Ruby gives no resistance because she is tired. She wakes up around 5:30 AM and rattles the crate and whines. I let her outside, and she pees and poops. I put her back in the crate. I try to sleep until 6:30 AM. Ruby will typically whine and rattle the crate during this hour.

I initially had her crate so close to my bedroom so I could hear her when she has to go potty, since she is learning to hold her bladder. The crate is also on the living room, my main hang out area. Now, I am wondering if I could move the crate in the basement where I can't hear her. In an ideal world, I get up at 6:30 AM to let her out. I'd love for Ruby to hold it of she wakes up sooner. BUT I don't want her to be miserable and about to explode either. I also worry about removing her crate to a location I rarely hang out at. 

What does everyone think? Can I move Ruby to the basement? Can I force her to wait until 6:30 for potty?


----------



## mlwindc

I wouldn't move the crate to the basement... Just not my thing. I don't think dog would be happy and it sounds rough for the poor gal to be alone in an unfamiliar room just because u want to sleep in

At 4.5 mos, Wilson was sleeping from 10:30/11pm -- 6:30 am. So about the same amount of time. Can u try bumping hours back? We do leave Wilson's kennel in our family room instead of moving it around. We can hear him from our room if he really needs something and its a room he is familiar with... But we aren't in sight so maybe that helps diminish whining and other incentives for bad behavior.


----------



## MilesMom

She's still pretty young. At that age Miles still needed to go out early. At a 8 or 9 months he began to be able to wait a little longer to go outside. Now at 17 months he will stay in bed as long as we are both in it but if someone gets up he wants to go too. Totally up to you of course, but I think around your pup's age we started pulling him into bed after potty and he would go back to bed for an hour on the weekends if we wanted to sleep in. I know that's not for everyone but just a comment.


----------



## datacan

There is an old Hungarian saying, “If you own a Vizsla, it lives on top of your head.” 

Unlike many utility dogs, Vizslas (or Vizslak in Hungarian) were never expected to be far from their masters; they were close-working hunters, finding, indicating, flushing, and retrieving game by day and sleeping next to their owners at night.

Sorry to say, 4 months is a critical time in the development of your little dog. It can be achieved over time, but why defy history? 
I had a devil of a V at 4 months. I started to train him at around 5 months :-[ though. 
What your little dog is trying to do, is enforce her own rules on you... because she noticed it worked at some point :
I am sure it is possible to move the crate little by little (inch by inch) outside, but be prepared for some major whining. 

http://www.moderndogmagazine.com/breeds/vizsla
http://www.rmvc.org/is-the-vizsla-the-right-breed-for-you.html


----------



## lonestar

I'd do the opposite..I'd bring the crate into the bedroom. Youre dealing with separation anxiety here, she knows youre close by and cant get to you. If you move the crate downstairs, she'll still feel anxious b/c she's not near you at all. 

You've got a Vizsla there, and we know they like us. She knows youre on the other side of that door, and the separation makes her anxious. Take her crate in the room, and see what happens.

If you need to remind yourself when to potty her thru the nite come up with a different way, maybe set your alarm so you can whisk her outside before she even realizes she needs to go! Dont forget heap lots of praise, and lots of kisses.

People get confused about crate training..its not a punishment ....it;s just giving them (and you) space, but it doesnt need to devolve into a control struggle, which yours is fast becoming. 

Try the crate in the room, close to the bed.


----------



## datacan

"Her crate is right on the other side of the bedroom wall. Don't know why she is whining tonight. It's usually her morning routine." - GLHF

she may need an extra bathroom break  just to be sure...


;D 
lonestar 8), do you need an avatar?


----------



## mswhipple

Hi, GLHF! Please keep in mind that all dogs are pack animals, and this especially holds true for the Vizsla. They want nothing more than to be with their pack (which is you), and to go hunting!! It just strikes me as a little unkind to put her crate in the basement. She's only 4.5 months old, which is still very young, and she has a lot of adjusting to do. I know it can be difficult, but try to be patient with her. It will all work out in time.   

_p.s. My boy Willie is six years old. I don't even own a crate. _


----------



## Rudy

8)


----------



## Laika

Datacan: Great links you posted regarding the wonderful V.

I might add: http://fusionvizslas.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/do-vizslas-make-good-family-dogs/

Sorry if this is a little off topic.


----------



## KB87

I 100% agree with what everyone else has posted- bring your pup closer to you. You'll get some rattling around and some whining, but over time it will go away. Knowing and being able to sense that you're in the room and they're close to you should help calm the anxiety. You'll likely have some bad nights, but eventually you'll have more and more good nights. At 4 months your pup is still young and isn't used to the routine (especially when it changes) so once they're used to their crate at night it should get better.

I would definitely avoid moving your pup further from you. Afterall, would you want to be shoved in the basement because someone is annoyed that you want out/have to potty and aren't used to it? Puppies = sleep loss - it's part of having a puppy, training them and their growing up. Give it time and she'll be able to hold her bladder through the night and sleep until when you want. Until then- you're on her schedule until she adapts to yours.

Give it time and do what is best for your pup, not necessarily you right now


----------



## RubyRoo

We had quite a rough time of getting our Ruby crate trained in the beginning so I feel your pain. She would go through phases of doing good and then the screams all night would be back. I tried the crating in the bedroom and it was worse. She cried even more knowing she was near us and couldn't get to us.

We put her crate in the furthest part of the house so we didn't have to hear her. If I had a basement, I probably would have put her there just to get some sleep 

Fast forward to 2 yrs later and Ruby is great now in the crate. We just moved her crate upstairs into one of the spare bedrooms about 6 months ago and she is fine. Hang in there and keep her on a routine. Trying covering the crate with a sheet and get a sound machine. That helped us a bit but in the end it is consistency the worked.


----------



## abatt

We used to have Isaac's crate in the living room. He would whine few times during the night waking us up. We then moved the crate to our bedroom, to calm him down without having to get out of bed. He actually stopped wining at all and started sleeping through the night.

Another thing to consider, is that you actually do want to be able to hear your pup in case he doesn't feel well. One night we woke up to him screaming on top of his lungs. The moment we took him out he had an explosion of diarrhea. In total we had three of those during the same night. You definitely don't want your pup to be alone when that happens and especially to clean it up afterwards.


----------



## lpdonahue

Try covering the crate with a blanket at night when you put her in her crate and if you put her back in to sleep. Don't cover her if you put her in just for a few hours during the day just night time but definitely put the crate in your room. Vizsla's LOVE TO BE CLOSE!!!


----------



## lonestar

...only cover half the crate of you do this, you can easily suffocate the puppy by covering the entire crate! Think about it...


----------



## SteelCityDozer

I'd say you're lucky she makes til 530 at that age. Each of ours were 430 at that age. And Penny didn't start making it through the night until a year old. Now she'll sleep til 530 (or 522 today) or 630 on weekends. Dozer will sleep all day if you do but he's nearly 3. Anyhow, I second putting her bed with you after potty. That's the way everyone can sleep more.


----------



## huntvizsla

I assume you have only the one dog. In that case you should expect that separation will be more stressful (at least at first) for pup. That being said, I have been sucessful with my dogs in crating them in the basement. The wire crates have a cheap-0 army wool blanket covering them to a) keep them warmer and b) give them the sense of a cave or hidey hole. No worries of suffocation - on very cool nights I have fully covered the crates with no ill effects. If the dogs really objected to the coverings they can mess with them thru the wires, yet I consistently find they are curled into the warmest corner of the kennels. 

Some pups adapted better (quicker) than others. One never let out a peep after the first day, the most recent had many unkind things to say for two weeks (in fact he bellered so loud and much that the dog sleeping next to him was VERY DISGUSTED with him for weeks later). 

Even today I will give the dogs an occasional treat as reward - they all dive into their crates in anticipation, and settle right down. They all know their "own place" and do not argue about it.

I generally do not see my dogs giving me any peace in the mornings till they are well over 1 year old. The older dogs will sleep long as they can, the young dogs though are just like young of any species - hey the sun is coming up and the whole world is waiting for me to arrive so we can play! Have some patience and pup will grow out of it.

Good luck - this will improve with time.


----------



## TAIsMom

Personally, I wouldn't move you're pup to the basement, but that's just me. At about 4.5 months Tai was very restless and I'm a light sleeper, so we went through something very similar. I decided to forego the crate at night and let my pup start sleeping in bed with me. From the first he's slept like a dream as long as he's touching me. As a result I get a better nights sleep knowing where he is instead of worrying about "is he moving in his crate too much? Does he need to go out? What's he doing?". Hmm, I'm probably the one with the separation anxiety!! 

Tai is crate trained and will go in there willingly throughout the day if he wants, and is great at being crated if I have to leave him alone in the house when I run errands, but we both sleep better when we know where each other is.


----------



## lonestar

TAIsMom said:


> Personally, I wouldn't move you're pup to the basement, but that's just me. At about 4.5 months Tai was very restless and I'm a light sleeper, so we went through something very similar. I decided to forego the crate at night and let my pup start sleeping in bed with me. From the first he's slept like a dream as long as he's touching me. As a result I get a better nights sleep knowing where he is instead of worrying about "is he moving in his crate too much? Does he need to go out? What's he doing?". Hmm, I'm probably the one with the separation anxiety!!
> 
> Tai is crate trained and will go in there willingly throughout the day if he wants, and is great at being crated if I have to leave him alone in the house when I run errands, but we both sleep better when we know where each other is.


This^^.

I recognize that the bed sleeping issue is opening a can of worms, but it really is a good solution as it addresses the underlying issue...puppies... and Vizsla puppies specifically, really crave closeness. And, sleeping together is a great bonding experience, which facilitates just about every other activity where there is some type of demand being placed on them.


----------



## huntvizsla

So, I am probably getting myself in trouble here, but what the heck. 

In my (limited) experience V puppies are probably not much different than puppies of any other breed - granted my experience with other breeds is less deep than with V's but - Labs, GSDs, cockers, springers to name a few.

I have had all of the puppies I raised beller if they aren't comfortable sleeping on their own. I liken it to a self confidence thing - some pups are inherently more confident than others. Some settle in on the first night, a few take days or weeks to really get comfortable.

I believe that learning to deal with their discomfort ultimately means a more stable dog in the future. Any puppy that can whimper and recieve immediate satisfaction will not learn to handle its own frustration and have a tendancy to be a clingy dog in the future. 

This it my experience only, and is the reason I always crate my puppies away from my bed side. Using this approach I have yet to have a clingy, dependent dog, nor have I ever had a dog afraid of its own shadow (barring a health problem which was shared in an earlier post). That being said - I understand that young dogs need to be pottied on a regular basis and probably aren't ready to sleep through the night till they are 4 months of age or more (depending on each dog but their bowels and bladder systems mature at a different rate). There is a difference between "let me out" and "LET ME OUT TO GO POTTY", the first is a complaint the second is a real need.

Assuming this is a well - bred, stable dog, what ever you decide to do will work out just fine for the pup. BUT whatever approach you decide on, try to look down the road to the long term consequences of your decisions. 

Good luck with your new pup!


----------

