# When should hunting and obedience training start? Puppy question



## moviegoer

Hi all- thanks so much for your answers to my other questions. This forum is a life saver. So our Ginger is 9 weeks old as of tomorrow. I'm interested in having her trained to hunt but I'm not too sure what the right age is to start her off. Someone I know who trains bird dogs said to get her a little quail wing that we can already start at home (putting it on a string), then take her out with other dogs as soon as she's got all her shots at around 12 weeks. 

I wondered if anyone here boarded their dog for training, and if so, at what age? I'm not sure if I'll board her with a trainer, or ask him to do private lessons. Either way I'm wondering what the prime age is for a female Vizsla to learn hunting. Also wondering about obedience training. We're already training her a lot of commands, but want to get professional help for both.


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## mswhipple

I don't think you really have to teach a hunting dog how to hunt, especially the Vizsla. It's in their blood! As I'm sure you know, they have a very strong hunting instinct. 

You DO have to train them carefully to be good gun dogs, though. From what I understand, it's very easy to "ruin" gun dogs by shooting guns around them too close and too early. My own dog, Willie, is gun shy, which I can tell by his reaction to fireworks. 

I hope Rod (a.k.a. redbirddog) or some of our other experienced hunters will post something for you.


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## Aimless1

The wing on a string is nothing more than a parlor trick and should be done once or twice at best. You can accomplish the same thing with a rag on a string. All you're doing is getting the puppy to sight point, which you don't want to encourage.

There is no magic age that things are introduced to your pup. Continue your training, take the pup out for walks in the fields and woods when he/she is ready. Whoa training is the foundation command. Somewhere between 4 - 8 months you'll sense it's time to introduce them to birds. I've had my best results in the past taking them to puppy classes where a hunting dog trainer will introduce them to pigeons and work on their pointing. The group class allows them to see what other pups are doing and helps to get them excited about the birds.

I have sent pups to a trainer before (more productive than individual classes) but not before they were at least a year old.


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## gunnr

moviegoer.

Mswhipple's first sentence is key. You will never train a dog to hunt. They either do it naturally, or don't. 
What you are training them to do is to hunt with you, and we poor humans are definitley the limiting variable in the equation.

For me the training starts the very first day. There is a ton of work that can be done in the house, on the kitchen floor, and in the yard. It's all fun and games though, and no real discipline component involved.
House training is the first step. It's a simple execise, but there is a lot to it, and the pup is learning to communicate with you, and learning how you'll communicate with it.
He/she is also learniong about "expectations". This is the basis of all the rest of the training. Expectations and communication.

Fetch starts on the kitchen floor. A rolled up sock with some quail scent. Roll it across the floor, and turn it into a game. I toss, you retrieve, and bring it back. The quail scent is just there to stir those latent instincts they are bred with.
I hide bird wings around the house. Under couches, the corner of a rug, behind a table , in a shoe,etc, and then let the puppy find it all on their own. No leading them to it. 
Each time they find something I make a really big fuss over them and we then play fetch with the wing. Lots of pets and touches and playfulness. High positve enrgy is the ticket here. You want them to know that nothing is more fun than doing this with you, and nothing is more important. You are bringing out the "desire to please". 
At this point in their life, with this game, there is nothing they can do wrong. Everything has to be a success for them. Your expectations at this time are ZERO!
Once they're older this game moves outside, and the wings are replaced with quail in cages hidden in the bushes. Still the same playful positve high energy, and again, everything they are doing at this point is correct. They'll learn later on whats not correct, but not yet. Drive, desire and focus are most important. The birds and wings are a distant second. You want her going bonkers anytime she thinks it's "platyime".
The wing on the string can be introduced, about the time the games move outside, but don't over do it. The wing on the string is to bring out the inherent pointing attributes, and you may not need it all. If your puppy is pointing quail in cages and wings hidden in the house, you're well on your way. 
One problem with the wing on a string game with Vizsla's is that they are natural problem solvers and will quickly learn that to get the wing, they have to stop the rod. They will stop going for the wing and focus on the end of the rod the string is attached too. They're not stupid. 
What is happening during this development period is that the instinctive aptitude of the puppy is developing at a natural pace, and you are becoming an interactive part of the equation. In thier mind you are imprinting yourself into their "picture".
Keep up with the basic obediance, and introduce the fun stuff, and in 6 months, or next spring, you'll be more than ready to move on to the " more serious training". She should be ready for her first intorduction to hunting by next season.

I personally would not send a Vizsla to a boarding facility. they generally don't do as well in kennel situations and really blossom with lots of personal attention. 
Do as much work as you can yourself to build a personal rapport with her, and get the trainer for the introduction to the gun and the final steadying to wing and shot.

Go slow, have fun and enjoy her as a puppy. Remember that she is also training you. ;D


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## kellygh

Agree with Gunnr about taking it slow & being fun for quite a while. We are taking it too slow, because of time constraints with 3 young ones, soccer season etc. Our trainer, Maurice Lindley, recommends waiting until Vs are 16-20m (depends on the individual V) before applying pressure. You want them to love, love, love birds 1st and foremost. For us this means, Maurice does not bring obedience into the field (birds) until aforementioned age range. Obedience is done away from the field and paired with the birds only when Maurice thinks the dog is mature enough to handle the additional pressure. Many stories to be told about Vs folding under pressure applied too soon. Foster the innate drive. Maybe different advice is given to more seasoned handlers, but we are novice bird dog owners, trainers etc. As Gunnr mentioned, I would have a very hard time leaving Pumpkin at a kennel. That includes our trainer's. I can't imagine P thriving, and it's too easy for me to imagine her coming home all weirded out at best. Enjoy your pup!


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## redbirddog

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2009/07/kinder-garden-is-over-ffor-bailey.html

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/06/bailey-is-at-summer-boot-camp.html



> So our Ginger is 9 weeks old as of tomorrow


Ginger is a baby. Be loving and consistant. Figure out what words you are going to use and make sure everyone uses the same words. She will soak up everything quickly both good and bad. Good walks would be where I started and basic puppy classes. Socialize, socialize, socialize. She has to be a good canine citizen first and hunter second. 

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2011/05/words-of-wisdom-from-long-time-vizsla.html

She may be a natural hunter or not. That has to do with the genes. Chloe, our 4-year-old female, came out of a litter where none of the pups became good hunters. Bailey came out of a litter with several natural hunters. We did a NAVHDA Natural Abilities test with Bailey at 5 months old and found out what we had. 

http://www.navhda.org/tests.html 

This was over a weekend out in a wildlife area, with about 25 Versatile Hunting dogs being tested. The test results were scored by three judges. Ranging from 0 to 116 in value. Bailey scored a 113. Bailey's litter mate, the breeder's female, scoring a 88. Even in a litter there are a wide range of natural abilities.

You have lots of time. Taking it slow and consistant is much better than rushing into the hunting fields.

Have fun with your girl and do a lot of walking.

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2009/06/importance-of-mastering-art-of-walk.html

RBD


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## R E McCraith

Broke pike 2 birds @10 weeks-n2gun @11weeks they are never 2 young 2 [email protected] he pointed and retreved 38 pheasents in kansas-never take a dog into the field if they are not used 2 birds-nguns


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## Gunnails

Something we did with our current Vizsla was to join a Pointing Dog Club when he was about 9 months. We were in the club for only one year and it was inexpensive.
The members were pointing dog geeks and gave us a wealth of advice and help in training our pup to locate, point, and hold a bird.
The club would meet twice a month and we would field train the dogs with live quails, enormous fun for the dog.
We were not much into hunting but felt a dog is happiest when he has a job/purpose. The training we gave for obedience and hunting really made for a happy well adjusted pet.


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## texasred

I love what I call puppy games. Birds are planted in the field then the pup is released to find the birds. The only rule is there is no correcting the puppy. It doesn't matter if they point or give chase on the scent. Either way they are learning important lessons without any pressure on them.


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## redbirddog

> I love what I call puppy games. Birds are planted in the field then the pup is released to find the birds. The only rule is there is no correcting the puppy. It doesn't matter if they point or give chase on the scent. Either way they are learning important lessons without any pressure on them.


I like your style and thought process young man. 

RBD


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## Vizsla Baby

We aren't going to train our V to hunt but a friend of mine just started training his lab (with help from a trainer). 

The trainer said that before 8-9 months old is a waste of time. But don't start too much later than that (or you'll be teaching your "old" dog new tricks).


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## redbirddog

> The trainer said that before 8-9 months old is a waste of time


If it was a waste of time, it sure was a fun waste of time! I guess I would take exception to that idea. 

I started reading to my daughters *years ago * when they were very young. I was told I was wasting my time, that the babies would not understand.

They both grew up with a love of reading. 

Did those things have anything to do with each other. I think so.

RBD


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## texasred

I don't think any training done right could ever be a waste of time. You just have to remember to let your puppy be a puppy. I start whistle training as early as I can. I will whistle at feeding time. I will do it at playtime to call them over for a treat or a pat on the head or a drink of water. I want my pups to have as much time as they can running and playing in many fields, creeks, ponds and trails . They learn that butterflies fly, grasshoppers hop and you can put your face under water to try and catch minnows. Its all a great big new world for them and there is no need for them to wait til they are 8 or 9 months old to find it. Along the way they learn to come to me and to go with me when they hear the whistle.


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## VbarK Vizslas

I have a silly question to you TexasRed. I was wondering what kind of whistle you use. I can't really whistle so whistling for the dog is well... but I love the idea of whistling for a come command.


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## texasred

Not a silly question. I use an Acme thunderer and normally order two or three at a time, so if one gets missed placed. Their only a few dollars a piece.
Just what ever whistle you decide to use just make sure you can order more of the same it something happens to the first one.


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## VbarK Vizslas

Thanks TexasRed


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## R E McCraith

at 10 weeks I buy six live quail-lock ther wings and throw 1 at a time-remember the pup can do no wrong-most will pick it up and bring it back-your only teaching them not 2b afraid of live birds-next weekend 6 more live birds and a freind with a 410ga-start the freind back from you 100yds-raise your hand-throw a bird and drop your hand your buddy fires-if the pup reacts 2 the gun throw the bird a couple more times-then try again-everytime the pup ignores the gun move your buddy 25yds closer and start again-very soon the pup will only pay attention 2 the bird-thats what they love-soon 25yds at a time you will shooting over the pups head with no reaction-this has worked with every bird dog I've had and they have never been gun shy-you never fire a gun over a pups head till they have been broke to gun-scares me 2 think someone belives firing a gun and the pup reacts and now it's gun shy-


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## Crazy Kian

This is the sort of fun a puppy should have with birds.
I shot this (the video, not the bird) at a field test we were at this past summer. The breeder was trying to sell her last pup and let this young bird handler play with the pup. 
This young lad had this dog playing fetch for a good 15 minutes. After about the 20th retrieve the little pup was following him like he was his owner and the little pup was so proud and tired too.

Click on picture below.


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## texasred

What a cute video of a happy puppy.


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## Crazy Kian

TexasRed said:


> What a cute video of a happy puppy.


You have no idea how much I had to hold back from offering the breeder money for that pup. My gf just looked at me like I was nuts.


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## texasred

Crazy said:


> TexasRed said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a cute video of a happy puppy.
> 
> 
> 
> You have no idea how much I had to hold back from offering the breeder money for that pup. My gf just looked at me like I was nuts.
Click to expand...

Your a strong man. That pup would've came home with me.


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