# Off leash vs. on leash



## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

Is there anybody out there that never or rarely takes their Vizsla off-leash? 

I ask because yesterday we had a major setback in our work with our shy Gus. My husband was running him at a park near our house, and a man with two little dogs was approaching on the walking trail. My husband recalled Gus and had him sitting by him, feeding him treats. As the man approached closer, Gus suddenly lunged at him and growled. It was enough to piss the guy off and for him totell my husband to "keep that dog on a leash". His comment was totally understandable considering Gus' aggressive behavior.

So now, we are scared to take him off leash anymore if there is even a chance of a person coming by. God forbid a child runs up and he does the same thing! I don't know if he actually would bite, but I don't really want to find out.

Is it fair to keep him leashed all the time? My thought is that its better than him biting a kid and having to be put down. Any thoughts or advice?


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

I kept Sam on leash until he earned his freedom. As a matter of fact I kept him on leash, tied to my waist at all times even in the house. 
Never ever had recall, chewing, barking, growling, compulsive obsessive problems of any kind with any dog.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

How old is Gus?


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

Gus is only 8 months. His recall is good! His niceness to strangers, not so good.


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

I'd say he should be on a leash always for now. Don't make that permanent though.
You need to figure out how to make strangers a pleasant experience for him.

Your goal is to be able to give him the freedom, and to have the freedom of a well behaved dog for yourself. there is no timeline for this. It is a slow process and has to take exactly as long as the dog needs it to.

If you need help, I would recommend hiring a professional trainer that you're confident in.


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

Yup- already hired one of the 50 certified animal behaviorists in the country. The prognosis was we have a genetically fear agressive dog. My husband was working on the counter-conditiong (although off leash) when this happenend.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

not sure if was suggested by your behaviorist but keeping Sam tied to my waist at all times, everywhere when he was out of his crate has worked wonders. 
I know it is hard at the beginning but after about 2 weeks he got the message and learned to obey.


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## polkan (Dec 29, 2011)

This reminds of the conversation here recently about training a dog to tolerate cars. 

I think there is a common theme between the two - in order to train a fearful dog, the appearance of aversive events (cars, strange people, etc) needs to be controlled by the trainer to remove unpredictability.

Patricia McConnell has a blog that she updates about once a week. She rescued a Border Collie who was also fear-aggressive towards strangers. What she did was arranged planned appearances by "strangers" her dog hasn't met and set up the script for each encounter. 

http://www.theotherendoftheleash.com/


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

Correct- it is just so hard to control ALL experiences when you live in a heavily populated area, and have a dog that needs so much exercise. It is also hard to control a husband that may or may not have been doing what we were taught


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

jjohnson said:


> Yup- already hired one of the 50 certified animal behaviorists in the country. The prognosis was we have a genetically fear agressive dog. My husband was working on the counter-conditiong (although off leash) when this happenend.


That's good to hear. RBD has a poem about a "bad" dog that gets sent away by his family. It chokes me up just thinking about it, and really makes me happy to hear about people working with their dogs, instead of giving up on them. 

We met a dog at the end of our walk today that snapped at all 4 Vizsla's as we walked by. The owner asked for our help and we gladly obliged. He just wanted 2 of us to stand there with our dogs so he could move closer and closer to us without his dog going off. He was using food rewards, and only letting the dog eat when he stopped barking and focused on his owner.
There were a few hiccups as he moved closer, but after a few minutes he was able to walk right around us with no reaction. I'm sure this will have to be repeated many times, but when you see progress like that, I hope it feels like a huge win, and keeps you motivated to help your dog through this.

Maybe you guys can ask strangers with or without dogs to give you some help too.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

JJ, this is not unusual and while I have not seen your dog, or the incident, I see this as a normal learning curve for your dog, more than outright fear aggression. Your V is a pup. It's learning what and who is what. it was unsure of the stranger. It gave a little growl and a warning, that it was unsure. That's not fear aggression in my eyes. 

My dogs will sometimes not bat an eyelid at approaching people, other times they are very wary of them, depending on how they approach us. If the people are coming up a trail towards us, my dogs will bark a warning and growl. 

But, I assure you, there is no aggression in the act at all. It's more a "Hey..Dad.....there is something coming that I am not sure about. " 

Mine will growl and bark and make a move towards the people/dog, then back off and stay close to me till they work out it's OK and then will go and have a sniff and say hello tails wagging. 

Watching my dogs during this behaviour, there is no aggression in it. Perhaps your behaviourist is feathering there own nest? Perhaps not, but watch it. I often see people at the puppy park, who's dog behaviourist has recommended a course costing lots to fix issues that are not there.


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

When we go with Oso off leash, we try to go at times where there won't be a lot of other dogs/people. We also try to stick to some places where there is visibility so we can see someone coming before they show up. When we see someone, I call Oso to me and put him on the leash before the person gets close.

Oso is very friendly, so I am more concerned that 1) he will approach an aggressive dog or 2) he will try to say hi to a person who doesn't like dogs and annoy them. 

I am just much more comfortable with the control as he is still a puppy and we don't have a long history to predict what he will do. 

Off leash is a lot more fun for Oso, but overall we want to protect their long-term happiness of our dogs. If he bit someone, the consequences can be so steep it may be worth curtailing off leash until the behaviors subside.


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## Blaze (Aug 6, 2008)

Hi Everyone, 
My V Blaze goes regularly off leash with me and his encounters with other off leash dogs are positive- he tends to act friendly and even submissive. 
I also take him on leash regularly also and on some occasions, like about 20 minutes ago, he will growl aggressively at an approaching on leash dog . I can't really predict when this will happen or to what type of dog. But it is embarrassing!! And potentially dangerous, he pulled me in doing so on an icy night a while ago and I fell and skinned out my knee! This is the same guy who acts_ all _submissive when two mini poodles we regularly encounter on off leash trail walks approach him. 
He is a good boy, very loving, knows his place in the home. and he is almost 4.
How can I stop this behaviour? Again-- it doesn't happen with _all_ dogs. Sometimes he will growl and pull in response to such behaviour in the other dog, but sometimes he will start it first. 
Appreciate any advice !,
thanks,
Carolyn


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## polkan (Dec 29, 2011)

Sometimes, being on leash makes it harder for dogs to meet/greet each other politely. They might forget about being leashed and pull, or they may feel frustrated they're being restrained when such an important occasion (greeting another dog) presents itself. 

It's also possible that your dog growls on leash because it's an equivalent of being cornered: submissive by nature, restrained without being able to escape, stressed by you jerking on the leash, etc. It seems that off-leash, he knows that he can display submissive or disarming behavior and the "threat" is diffused. He needs to be taught how to do the same on-leash.

I'm really just guessing here, but you will learn _a lot_ if you force yourself to swallow the embarrassment during only one such encounter, wait it out and just watch his body language like a hawk. It can be hard, but it's in your best interest - the more you know the more options you have. 

If you can confirm the dog displays a threat (growl) because of fearfulness, a trainer would typically advise to teach him how to switch his attention onto something else; or to change the way you approach other dogs when leashed (the angle of approach, stopping for greeting vs keeping it moving, etc, etc).

Good luck!


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

I just wanted to chime in again. While I agree that watching the behavior play out will teach you a lot, I would recommend that you do that in a staged scenario or with the trainer present. Most likely he wouldn't hurt the other dog, but you wouldn't want him to strike out and hurt a random dog/person, as the consequences might be too high.


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