# Nervous biting



## hungarianvizslamix (Mar 22, 2016)

We have a 2 year old Vizsla mix, if you didn't know any better you would say he is 99% Vizsla. This is the the most anxious dog I have ever known. We adopted him from a rescue when he was about 4 months old and have no knowledge of his past. While he is absolutely fantastic with our family, truly a velcro dog, he sizes certain people up and if he doesn't care for them he can get aggressive and on one occasion has bitten the person. I believe we need help but I hear very different things from different people on how to deal with this. My wife wants to send him to a trainer who uses shock collars to train dogs and I think that would put this dog over the top. Do others agree or is my wife correct in her thinking? We have acquired two other rescues in the last 6 months and they are 12 month old somethings but they are very good together and get along great. One comment I would love feedback on is what people think about the electronic fences. I think these are a real issue. I watch my dog sit at the top of our driveway watching people go by and bark at them and they of course keep going and I think the dog thinks he is guarding the house and by barking he gets them to move along and that this intents him to keep doing this which builds on his behavior issues, any other agree?


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## Sig-the-elder (Mar 8, 2016)

I have strong opinions about shock collars and other aversive techniques. People use aversive techniques because they work immediateley - now let me qualify that. They work while the shock is in action - shock elicits responses that are usually incompatible with the undesired behavior. This is why it works - temporarily. But countless studies (look up works by Sidman and Azrin) show that after being exposed to punishment, animals tend to act agressively (if there are people or other animals around, they will be the targets of that agression). There are also studies that show that animals can build tolerance to the shock and end up engaging in the undesired behavior anyway. You may have to continuously crank up the voltage. Usually aversive stimuli teach fight or flight behavior - they don't teach what the animal should do. To do that, you need to use positive reinforcement - teach behavior that is incompatible with the undesired one and that will produce positive consequences for the dog in its natural environment. This doesn't mean you only need to use food - if you don't want your dog to bark at other dogs, for example, you can associate the presence of other dogs to lots of cuddles if he stays quiet or even fetch games. I have a masters degree in behavior analysis, so I have been studying this for a long time. Hope I was able to help a bit!


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I don't think its if a person uses a ecollar as part of their training, or not, that makes them right or wrong for training your dog. We use avoidance training with ecollars for very few things. It is for things that are are dangerous to the dog, and we want the dog to be scared of it. Most of the time its used to keep dogs from going up to poisonous snakes.

Most dogs are going to bark at strangers close to a property line. We don't assume all strangers have good intentions, and some dogs can be the same. Its more about teaching the dog that you say who is okay, or working with them to try and control the barking. Having one that has bitten in the past, I would prefer a traditional fence, over a in-ground electric one. Or a combination of both, if any of the dogs are climbers/diggers.

With your dog being very nervous (guessing fear biter), I doubt she would do very well in a kennel environment away from home. Even well adjusted dogs, have to adjust to being kenneled away from home with new trainers. Good trainers take the first few days to form bonds with the new dogs. Nervous, shy dogs take a lot longer, and some may never become comfortable with it. You need a behaviorist, that can help you work with her. Or at least a trainer that has worked with problem rescues, and I would NOT use a trainer far from your home. Some dogs can become so scared, they turn aggressive towards a trainer. And will not let anyone in the kennel with them. If that happens, you would need to be close enough to go get her. If you can't, she would probably have to be put down for safety reasons.


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

The problem here is that your baby might be 99% Vizsla, but unfortunately, 100% rescue. You just don't know the history and the exposure of the dog, and like all things living, they really do respond to their environment, as you see. 

The question here isn't to e collar or not, but finding a qualified trainer who has experiences with fear/aggressive dogs who have demonstrated biting.....that's the issue, it's not the 'Feeling' the dog has, but the dis inhibition of the impulse to act on that fear with an actual behavior, biting. Often, people like e collars b/c they see them as some magic bullet (they're not), and they're also desperate. My experience is that an e collar is a last resort, and in situations like yours MUST be used by trainers who really know what they're doing, otherwise the punishment makes the underlying aggression worse. One way you can tell if the trainer has that experience is to let him meet the dog and see how he interacts with her and let him provide a treatment plan. If he goes right to e collar, keep looking.

With regards to the e fence, they work very effectively when the dog is properly trained to it, but right now I'd recommend you focus your training on the aggressive behavior and not the boundary line.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

> The question here isn't to e collar or not, but finding a qualified trainer who has experiences with fear/aggressive dogs who have demonstrated biting.....that's the issue, it's not the 'Feeling' the dog has, but the dis inhibition of the impulse to act on that fear with an actual behavior, biting. Often, people like e collars b/c they see them as some magic bullet (they're not), and they're also desperate. My experience is that an e collar is a last resort, and in situations like yours MUST be used by trainers who really know what they're doing, otherwise the punishment makes the underlying aggression worse. One way you can tell if the trainer has that experience is to let him meet the dog and see how he interacts with her and let him provide a treatment plan. If he goes right to e collar, keep looking.


I don't know any trainers that go straight for the ecollar, and your right its not some magic bullet. 
A lot of training goes into a dog, before that training can be overlapped with a ecollar.



> and they're also desperate


I've only seen those type of statements made by people that don't have a good understanding of the correct way to use a ecollar.


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## lilyloo (Jun 20, 2012)

E-collars are used in different ways for different purposes and can definitely be a fantastic training tool.

We took Ruby to a trainer who uses e-collars and saw amazingly positive results. Our trainer used them on (mainly) low settings. His motive was never to startle the dog. Like TexasRed said, there are scenarios where you want to use a high level stem to startle the dog so that it avoids the situation (i.e. rattlesnake training). Instead, he equated the e-collar stimulation to a tap on the shoulder. If you and I are distracted and someone starts talking to us, we may not be listening to anything they're saying, but if that person calls out our name first and gets our attention, then we can listen. The e-collar can be used in the same way. The way our training worked, the e-collar only re-enforces what the dog already knows, but may have trouble focusing on. 

But, like TR also said, whether or not a trainer uses the collar doesn't make them a good or bad trainer.


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