# To hunt or not to hunt?



## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

That is the question...

Background: Riley's knee was injured about 3 months ago. She suffered a bite to the knee, which became infected and the vet believes it was septic at one point before they flushed it. Fast forward to today - her knee has shown drastic improvement. She has a bit of a jilt to her stride, but otherwise runs/walks fine. What worries me is that after a day of hard running she limps noticeably (ie - sometimes refuses to put her foot down). The vet says there is no ligament or bone injury, so our best guess is that the joint was just screwed up so badly with infection that maybe it won't ever be the same.

My question is this: Is it fair to continue her hunting training? She is SO passionate about birds, but she can still have fun *hunting* wildlife on our weekly hikes and occasional trips to Hastings. She is such a good girl - will push herself until she is exhausted and then keep going if I ask her to. But is it right of me to keep pushing her? I just want her to be happy & not in unnecessary pain. 

We are also planning on adding a 2nd (a brother!) to the pack in February from great hunting lines, so we will have at least one pup for hunting.

Thoughts?


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

3f - if it was me I would hunt the pup lightly - back 2 the vet after every hunt - rather have my V in the field were their happy than a sad pup at home


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

I believe she can be hunted. You won't be able to hunt her all day,every day, but she can still perform. She'll need you to moderate her exertion.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

I'd continue with her training as she may well continue to heal to the point where she's not limping anymore.


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

Agree... Allow her to do what she loves. In fact, I don't believe you could teach a Vizsla NOT to hunt. It would be like trying to teach a bird not to sing.


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## zigzag (Oct 4, 2011)

If I read your profile on Riley right he was born September 2011? That's a young dog and I think he will bounce back, by age 2 you may never even remember what he looked like with a limp. I would just take it slow and let him hunt it up!


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I would hunt and train with her but not to the extent that she is in pain at the end of the day. Try and find what she can comfortably do. Start small, maybe 15 minutes in the field. She how she handles it and go from there. Maybe she can slowly build up over time.
If she can't I would asked the vet if there is a possibility of a MRI or scope finding a fixable problem that the xrays missed.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

Thanks for the great advice everyone!

I think a trip to the vet is definitely in order. It would be nice to get an MRI and see if there is anything they can *fix*. Also, I'm going to ask about some low-dose pain meds for after our hunting sessions. Hopefully, I can get this all sorted out so she can hunt pain-free again.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

I hate to dredge up an old topic, but I figure it would be better for people to see the background on the situation so I don't have to write it out all over again...

Riley's knee was better for a while, but now that we've started to really get into hunt training (2hrs+ each Sunday) her limp has become noticeably worse. After training she refuses to put her foot down for the rest of the day. During the week, she has an obvious limp. I can tell it's really bothering her because her nails on the foot under the damaged knee grow at an incredible speed, which indicates that she's hardly putting any pressure on that foot.

So.... next steps - would an MRI be our best option? Have any of you taken your dog in for an MRI? How much is this going to cost us? I have a bad feeling she will need to have the knee replaced if she is going to be able to hunt successfully. Has anyone been through a knee replacement surgery with their pup? How much did it cost and how long was the recovery period?

Riley is such a trooper! Once the birds come out she absolutely forgets about her leg. She will even refuse water until she thinks we're done with training. I really couldn't ask for a better pup!


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

Poor Riley! 

I am a human physical therapist, not sure if prices are different for dogs but MRI for a human knee is about 2000, and then rehabilitation for a total knee is lengthy (about 6 months to a year) but she is young so likely on the shorter end of the scale. First 2 months are hard then steady progressions. 

Not sure if different for dogs, but with human total knees they don't recommend lengthy running because of the impact of the metal on the bone. Might be worth asking to make sure she will be able to run and jump after surgery. 

Keep us posted!


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

poor Riley  , is there no way insurance will carry the financial side of it?


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

I'm not sure how pup insurance works. Is it the same as human insurance where they won't cover pre-existing conditions? We don't currently have insurance for the pups (never DREAMED something like this would happen).


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

I would take it easy and walk the dog. No shame in that. Lots of other forms of exercise out there... Nose-work, tracking...

They took me hunting last year and saw the dogs, don't know when to quit. One came back with a limp (hairline fracture), owner didn't think much about it by the way the dog acted until it couldn't walk any more.

Moral of the story... never ask the dog's opinion when it comes to work.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

They could scope her knee instead of a MRI. It is a incision to do it that way , but its a small one. They could also do a ultra sound. Not as good as MRI but still maybe able to find the problem.
The cost is going to vary from vet to vet. and your location makes a difference.
In my area knee replacement $3500-$4000 for a top surgeon in that field. Going to a different vet would only save you $200-$300 and its not worth the small saving to me. MRI is $1200 and I didn't ask the vet if that included sedation. 
My dog Cash was put on rest and no hunting for the rest of the season. Due to a reoccurring lameness in a front leg last month. After the rest period the vet said to " Run the **** out of him". If it reappears they will do a MRI right away. They want to do it while its inflamed so it will light up on the MRI.
I have not had a dog that had to have its knee rebuilt, but his office is lined with pictures of dogs that went on to compete and win titles after the surgery.
To me not knowing causes more stress than having a answer. If you don't have the money up front, most surgical places have financing.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I was hoping Riley was going to make a come back from her knee problems with out more vet visits.. Its tough to keep one with so much drive out of the field. I hope they get her fixed up, and she is back chasing birds in no time.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

"After the rest period the vet said to " Run the **** out of him". If it reappears they will do a MRI right away. They want to do it while its inflamed so it will light up on the MRI." - TexasRed 

Good doctor... Thinking that pain will stop him anyhow and only minor irritation will ever occur.. I like this doctor thinks.


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

I have a wide lists of supplements and food choices that would help this comeback

pm me if interested

and repeated MRI and MRA due come with risks

had at least 50 of them

glow green at night 8)

If your hunting public release lands give him or her a 30 minute restricted of go as there far less of of a push to wild raw lands

as without fresh blood supply and exercise the area will gain and become worse

pills are not the answer

pace her maybe a lead lunge rope art first

You can be the answer at this comeback
be blessed


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Bred 2 hunt & born 2 please ! that is a V !!!!! 4 me as a owner I set the limits - I would neVer keep the mutt out of the field - 2min or 3 days I set what the pup will do - at the end of the day around the camp fire - family & friends pups and long guns - this is your V's life - for a V retirement will never be a option - their HEART is 2 big !!!!!!!!


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

R said:


> Bred 2 hunt & born 2 please ! that is a V !!!!! 4 me as a owner I set the limits - I would neVer keep the mutt out of the field - 2min or 3 days I set what the pup will do - at the end of the day around the camp fire - family & friends pups and long guns - this is your V's life - for a V retirement will never be a option - their HEART is 2 big !!!!!!!!


that my pal, is one of the best statements I've ever read ;D ;D ;D


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

*Re: Bite Inhibition Training Experiences*



R said:


> Bred 2 hunt & born 2 please ! that is a V !!!!! 4 me as a owner I set the limits - I would neVer keep the mutt out of the field - 2min or 3 days I set what the pup will do - at the end of the day around the camp fire - family & friends pups and long guns - this is your V's life - for a V retirement will never be a option - their HEART is 2 big !!!!!!!!


Never thought of it this way, simply brilliant.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2013/03/honorable-scars.html

I am reading my copy of "Pointing Dog Journal"
(a great magazine for those who love their Hungarian Pointer as a hunter)
Pointing Dog Journal Subscription Link 
On page 14 there is Rick Smith's Trainin' Dogs article: "The Overprotective Owner." Early on he explains about hunting dogs and injuries: 

*"However, being a hunting dog is a fairly high-risk occupation, and it's one that our dogs would choose even without our participation given the opportunity."
*

Later on:

"Bird dogs that hunt will get scuffed up and scrapped up. Dogs that stay absolutely perfect throughout their lives aren't doing much hunting. That's a fact of life, and there's no way to guarantee a dog will never get a scratch or dent. Those are considered honorable scars, earned in the field and on the job, and they add to the dog's character."


Bailey's new scar came from an earlier barb-wire injury. Our vet did a great job and the scar should hardly be seen when it heals completely. 


Just a part of owning a hard-charging hunting dog.

RBD


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

*Re: Bite Inhibition Training Experiences*

Barbed wire is nasty stuff. How did you treat the boy in the field?


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

datacan,
My vet explained it but I'm not good in this area. Last summer he got cut in the back area with barbwire and it bled for a bit but after washing with clean water it stopped on it's own.

A month later a "bubble" appeared on his back about the size of a golf ball. I was concerned and took him to the vet. He pulled a sample of the fluid inside the "pocket" and said it was a dog's way of dealing with an injury by forming a pocket between the two layers of skin. It was not going to ever be a problem and I could just leave it. He drained the liquidy blood from it, put some anti-inflammatory substance in and called it good. The bump was "gone" but returned in a couple weeks as big as before. Had him check it one more time and again he said it was not a health issue but he could sew it up if that is what I wanted to do. So I choose to have the surgery after a couple months of thinking about it and this is the scar. The golf ball-sized lump got many looks and comments of concern, as it did look bad (read tumor). 

Another thing I would have never known and if Hungarian Pointers had longer hair no one would have ever seen the lump, but with our dogs EVERYTHING shows.

He's fine and the stitches come out next week.

RBD


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## dmak (Jul 25, 2012)

RBD - two of my dads gundogs have those bumps on them from a dog fight. Like you said, the vet told us that it is the dogs healing method and that we could just leave it be. 4 years later, the dogs still have the bumps with no issues, except for the average comment from concerned dog owners thinking the dogs have untreated tumors. I personally would elect to surgically repair the bump


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