# Interesting research regarding diet in dogs vs. wolves



## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

I found this study and article in Nature very interesting, and it makes theoretical evolutionary sense. 

http://www.nature.com/news/dog-s-dinner-was-key-to-domestication-1.12280#/b1 

There is disagreement on whether the composition of food itself was key to domestication - what I found of interest was the genome discovery of 10 variants in domesticated dogs vs. wolves that allow domesticated dogs to break down starches (grains) to sugars. Also the scientific evidence that humans and dogs share the same evolutionary timeline in this regard. 

Summation excerpt:
_"Nevertheless, the study adds to evidence that dogs should not eat the same food as wolves, says Wayne, who points out that dog food is rich in carbohydrates and low in protein compared with plain meat. “Every day I get an email from a dog owner who asks, should they feed their dog like a wolf," says Wayne. "I think this paper answers that question: no.”_

Ken


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

Thanks for posting that very interesting article, Ken. I have always wondered... if grains are so bad for dogs, why have I raised seven different dogs on dog foods containing grains, who all lived long and healthy lives!? Dogs are not wolves, even though they do share a lot of the same DNA (just not all). The grain-free debate will go on, I'm sure; but I don't hesitate to feed my dog foods that contain grains, and he, too, is thriving. ;D

Mary Ann


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

I read something about dogs bring able to use grains but never read actual research. 

Thanks for sharing


Trying to digest this book in ebook format for a while now.. 
http://www.amazon.com/Behaviour-Evolution-Cognition-Oxford-Biology/dp/0199545669


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## ctracyverizon (May 26, 2011)

It is not a matter of whether dogs or humans are able to digest grains but whether the grains that are available for consumption by either are suitable for good health.

Grains of all types have been genetically altered or hybridized to the point that they are causing all kinds of health problems.

Do some research and you will do your dog and yourself a lot of good. 

Monsanto has control over as much as 90 percent of seed production.

The following quote describes the way seeds have been mutated for modified growth.

_"If I subject wheat seeds and embryos to the potent industrial poison sodium azide, I can induce mutations in the plant’s genetic code. First, let me tell you about sodium azide. If ingested, the poison control people at the Centers for Disease Control advise you to not resuscitate the person who ingested it and stopped breathing as a result —just let the victim die—because the rescuer can die, too. And, if the victim vomits, don’t throw the vomit in the sink because it can explode (this has actually happened). So, expose wheat seeds and embryos to sodium azide and you obtain mutations. This is called chemical mutagenesis. Seeds and embryos can also be exposed to gamma irradiation and high-dose x-ray radiation. All of these techniques fall under the umbrella of hybridization or, even more misleading, traditional breeding techniques." 

"These “traditional breeding techniques,” by the way, are markedly more disruptive to the plant’s genetics than genetic engineering. Americans are up in arms about genetically-modified (GMO) foods (i.e., the insertion or deletion of a single gene). The great irony is that genetic engineering is a substantial improvement over “traditional breeding techniques” that have gone on for decades and are still going on."_

My dog and I avoid grains ... we feel much better : )


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

CT you are right about Monsanto. Even so, life is too short to worry. 

I guess Mickey D's is out of question then also 

Love their coffee and muffin combo.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

ctracy - I appreciate the input and the quote - I am curious as to the reference of the quote.

I am certainly no expert on GMO's and done little research on it so can offer no opinion of worth. However, if in fact the US grain crop is so significantly dominated with one seed manufacturer across I gather all grains, wouldn't virtually the entire food supply be toxic as portrayed in the quote? I feed Pigeons, Quail and Chuckar grain. I know chickens and turkeys eat grain. I suspect fish meal contains some grain. Virtually all meat feedstock eats grain. We eat breads made from wheat by the millions every day. The GMO's have been in use for about 15 years now so I understand, yet our lifespans continue to increase. One would think we'd have all dropped like flies by now if it were so incredibly toxic as portrayed in the non-referenced quote.

Just sayin'
Ken


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Ken we went from hunter gathers to farmers - the pups came along with us - their role changed just like us - R U right ? got my Vote - but want 2 wait at least 1000yrs to see who is right ! LOL


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## ctracyverizon (May 26, 2011)

I don't ascribe to the evolution story but since it was propounded - 

We have been eating grains since Adam and Eve were forced out of Eden. After the flood of Noah's day, Melchizedek “brought out bread and wine” before blessing Abraham. In making bread, the Hebrews generally used wheat flour or barley flour. 

Wheat was a staple food throughout the history of man - but what we are eating today is not the wheat they were eating.

The scriptures promise that amongst other things that God will accomplish on earth, he will do the following
(Revelation 11:18) "...to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.”

When those words were written humans could no more ruin the earth than they could fly to the moon ... but today they are doing both.

The research paper on grain mutation in the following link gives evidence of how "yield " (Profit) is more important than our health as a nation. (Note that no study has been done on the effects of these grains on humans before releasing them for consumption to the public ... as they created crops that yield twice as much as the original grain did)

http://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=ajps.2011.190.201&org=11

I realize these comments are inflammatory to some - But that's what makes blogs interesting at times.
My interest in this post is not to debate our origins or doctrines but to shed light on something that could possibly lead people and animals to healthier food choices.

There are many Doctors, Healthcare Professionals, Dietitians Etc. that are recognizing the health problems that are associated with the FDA's promotion of grains in the US diet.

Did you know that Pfizer owns Monsanto? ... Hmmm - Monsanto creates health problems and Pfizer sells drugs that treat the symptoms.

Did you know they now own Whole Food's? 

Oh and look! ... Monsanto just entered the pharmaceutics world. Here is something that should scare you ...

http://www.naturalnews.com/037409_monsanto_gene_silencing_pharmaceuticals.html


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## chrispycrunch (May 11, 2012)

Interesting article!

I am an evolutionary thinker....and have been since I learned about it way back in school. I was raised in a very Christian family......but Evolution just just made so much more sense to me and answered so many questions I had. In any case, I won't judge those of you who choose to believe in a higher-power, I just as that you respect my choice as well.

From an evolutionary point of view.........the earliest ancestors to humans have been hunter/gatherers (since the Paleolithic Era 2.6+M years ago) up until about the last 10,000 years. We sustained ourselves and evolved eating meat, nuts, berries, fruit, plant life...etc. It wasn't until about 10,000 years ago that agriculture was slowly making it's way as source of food and grains became a larger portion of the diet. While we may have been slowly adapting to those grains as a source of energy.....10,000 years out of the last 2.6 million is just a tiny spec of time (less than half of a percent of the time). Evolution doesn't happen that quickly...... In the past 50-ish years.....ALL of these grains have drastically changed and mutated from what they once were to protect them from pests, to prevent them from germinating so that seeds must be purchased and planted every year, etc. These new crops vaguely resemble the grains that used to be (the ones ctracyverizon referred to in Adam and Eve's day). These is no possible way we would have every adapted to eating this stuff in such a short period of time which is why many experts believe we're seeing so many food allergies and food-related health issues.

On to my point.......over a year and a half a go I decided to cut grains from my diet as a dietary choice.....and I have to say I have never felt or looked healthier in my whole life. I have never had any food allergies or any reason to cut them from my diet, but I decided to give it a try for 30 days and I was completely sold after 2 weeks. I lost a ton of weight, I have a clear mind, I have tons of energy. I feel like I have been missing out feeling like I was supposed to feel for the past 29 years.

.......with my own personal discovery, I will not be feeding my dog these "grains" either or at least as few as possible. They just aren't the same as what they used to be 1000 years ago (back to the earliest traces of the Vizsla)......or even 100 years ago.......or even 50 years ago!

I'm not saying you can't live a healthy life eating wheat, oats, corn, rice......etc, but from my own personal experience, I know what the difference feels like without them. If grains these days were what they once were, I doubt I would feel so strongly about avoiding them......but I sincerely doubt we'll ever see those again. .........especially if companies like Monsanto are around.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I fed my dogs for years a food that was high protein and contained grain. I only changed after one of them had a food allergy. I rate foods by how my dogs look and run. They had shiny coats, bright eyes, nice clean teeth, and endurance in the field with a food that contained grain. On the grain free food everything appears to be the same.
My daughter plans on taking her dog (its the food allergy one) sometime later this year, and I will probaly go back to the old food that contained grain. Same results and less money.
I like to read studies but endurance in the field has to be the top on my list.


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## ctracyverizon (May 26, 2011)

Let me see if I have this right… over the last 10,000 years, humans evolved (survival of the fittest & a slow accumulation of favorable mutations) to be able to sustain themselves on grains. 

However in the last 50 years we have caused unfavorable mutations in grains that are resulting in the demise of both humans and animals whose digestive systems have, quote “no possible way we would have adapted to eating this stuff in such a short period of time”.

Perhaps in another 50 years mutated food crops (protecting themselves) will kill off all flesh and then self destruct with the absence of what it needs from the cycle of life in the ecosystem.

Earth will become unable to sustain life like the moon … that answers a lot of questions huh! :


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

I am simply gobsmacked that there are humans who walk this planet who still deny evolution. Religion has a lot to answer for.

FWIW, I am religious, just not an extremist.........


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## chrispycrunch (May 11, 2012)

ctracyverizon said:


> Let me see if I have this right… over the last 10,000 years, humans evolved (survival of the fittest & a slow accumulation of favorable mutations) to be able to sustain themselves on grains.
> 
> However in the last 50 years we have caused unfavorable mutations in grains that are resulting in the demise of both humans and animals whose digestive systems have, quote “no possible way we would have adapted to eating this stuff in such a short period of time”.
> 
> ...



I was agreeing with you (just from a different viewpoint).......why did you get all judgmental and condescending?



ctracyverizon said:


> I realize these comments are inflammatory to some - But that's what makes blogs interesting at times. My interest in this post is not to debate our origins or doctrines but to shed light on something that could possibly lead people and animals to healthier food choices.
> 
> There are many Doctors, Healthcare Professionals, Dietitians Etc. that are recognizing the health problems that are associated with the FDA's promotion of grains in the US diet.


My post was trying to point out that all of this sh*t we eat doesn't do us any good. Look at the correlation between the "Low Fat Diet" that is the "correct" diet these days and the rates of obesity. I realize correlation doesn't mean causation, but there is some strong evidence that supports the link between the two and it's hard to not see the relationship when you know the science behind it.




Ozkar said:


> I am simply gobsmacked that there are humans who walk this planet who still deny evolution. Religion has a lot to answer for.
> 
> FWIW, I am religious, just not an extremist.........


^I had to quote this just because I liked it so much.


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## ctracyverizon (May 26, 2011)

Well ... I digress!

It is hard not to when evolutionary articles and theories are thrown around as facts so often.

Here are some facts to consider ... 

(DNA) in one tiny cell if written out, would fill a thousand 600-page books. How ridiculous it is to say that the living cell created itself accidentally in some primeval soup!

Consider the so-called Cambrian period. Here fossils of the major groups of invertebrates first appear together in a spectacular “explosion” of living things. If these vastly differing groups all exploded into life at the one time, how could they possibly have evolved from one another? 

Darwin himself frankly admitted: “If numerous species . . . have really started into life at once, the fact would be fatal to the theory of evolution.” Fatal indeed


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

I go with Tex - if your food choice produces a healthy and long life V I go for it - debate is fun ! at the end of our day - results are the only thing that counts - research the breed - breeder - food - trainer ETC - it is still a CRAP shoot ! - when it comes to a religious debate - my only hope is PIKE rots in **** with me - if there are BIRDS - LOL


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

*Re: Re: Interesting research regarding diet in dogs vs. wolves*



R said:


> I go with Tex - if your food choice produces a healthy and long life V I go for it - debate is fun ! at the end of our day - results are the only thing that counts - research the breed - breeder - food - trainer ETC - it is still a CRAP shoot ! - when it comes to a religious debate - my only hope is PIKE rots in **** with me - if there are BIRDS - LOL


I'll save you guys a spot. Getting crowded down there I reckon........


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Oz -moved to Kentucky from New Jersey in 1966 to get a engineering degree at UK - started a well documented report on the only ( I think ) grains fit for human consumption - the results ( still working on it ) KENTUCKY BOURBON ! the PROOF ! 80 - 110 % - please join PIKE & I in a double blind drunk TEST - you are one of the few VVe can trust in this scientific endeaVor - will take hard VVork - but for the good of mankind - VVe will do IT !


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

*Re: Re: Interesting research regarding diet in dogs vs. wolves*



R said:


> Oz -moved to Kentucky from New Jersey in 1966 to get a engineering degree at UK - started a well documented report on the only ( I think ) grains fit for human consumption - the results ( still working on it ) KENTUCKY BOURBON ! the PROOF ! 80 - 110 % - please join PIKE & I in a double blind drunk TEST - you are one of the few VVe can trust in this scientific endeaVor - will take hard VVork - but for the good of mankind - VVe will do IT !


easier for Me to come to you. Our pup quarantine laws are destructive to a good hunting dog. At least getting mine into the U.S. will be simple.....ish......

Plus, unless Obama gets his way your hunting, fishing and firearm laws are a touch more sensible........  

Just got back from rabbiting. Dogs performed well, I didn't. Couldn't hit the side of a barn with a tractor today.......


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

*Roast Hare*

ingredients serves 4:

One young hare, or saddle joint of an older hare
stuffing (optional) fatty bacon rashers oil dripping
method:

1. Stuff the hare, if liked, then truss and place in a roasting pan. 

2. Cover with fatty bacon and brush with oil. 

3. Roast in a preheated oven 180°C (350°F) for 1 1/2 to 2 hours, depending on size, until tender. 

4. Baste frequently with the fat in the pan, and lay a piece of oiled foil loosely over the hare after 30 minutes' cooking.

5. Serve with a thick gravy, with a flavouring of port or sherry, if desired. 

 grains and vegetables optional but recommended unless you need a tummy ache


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## VictoriaW (Mar 16, 2011)

Ssshhhhhh...you are upsetting S'mores!


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

*Re: Re: Interesting research regarding diet in dogs vs. wolves*



VictoriaW said:


> Ssshhhhhh...you are upsetting S'mores!



Awww....VW.........he looks delicious!


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

S'mores is too cute, anyway... if only you had a cat... ;D


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