# Golden Meadows Kennels



## calum

Since this thread was created, redbirddog has visited Golden Meadows Kennels and had a look at the operation that they are running.

Please see the following posts on redbirddog's blog about Golden Meadows Kennels:

http://redbirddog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/golden-meadows-in-pictures.html
http://redbirddog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/golden-meadows-products-and-paperwork.html

Hopefully after reading these blog posts, and the posts in this thread, you can form your own opinion about the kennels.


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## Suliko

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*

*datacan*, never seen this ad. But then again, I hardly ever pay attention to the adds here. What's with the vitamins?! And, of course, why would one ever mention that Vizsla is a hunting dog :


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## Suliko

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*

Hmmm.... maybe we should start keeping track of all the puppy mills we come across during different posts to warn others who seek information and help? Not links to their websites but just the names? I know, something like that could probably go both ways - attract attention in good and bad ways. But I can recall about three or four puppy mills from different posts where people had gotten their Vs from. Just an idea.


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## harrigab

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*



Suliko said:


> Hmmm.... maybe we should start keeping track of all the puppy mills we come across during different posts to warn others who seek information and help? Not links to their websites but just the names? I know, something like that could probably go both ways - attract attention in good and bad ways. But I can recall about three or four puppy mills from different posts where people had gotten their Vs from. Just an idea.


personally I think that any publicity they receive (no doubt it will be negative from us guys) will put them on the map and make it easier for the not so well informed to seek them out and keep them in business. I don't think a "name and shame" policy is necessarily the right route to take.


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## threefsh

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*



datacan said:


> its a puppy mill in CA. I clicked the ad and browsed through the site. Obviously, fake site with borrowed stolen pictures. I think I have seen one of the pictures on this site.
> I am afraid the ad was tailored for this site exclusively.
> http://www.goldenmeadowsretrievers.com/Vizsla Home.htm


Not only is that a puppy mill, they breed using dogs that are ALSO from a puppy mill ("Evening Star Kennels").

Check out the picture (attached) of one of the sires. You can see stacked cages of goldens in the background! Disgusting! 

Oh, and apparently you can pay $6,500 for a "professionally trained" Vizsla. ???



harrigab said:


> Suliko said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm.... maybe we should start keeping track of all the puppy mills we come across during different posts to warn others who seek information and help? Not links to their websites but just the names? I know, something like that could probably go both ways - attract attention in good and bad ways. But I can recall about three or four puppy mills from different posts where people had gotten their Vs from. Just an idea.
> 
> 
> 
> personally I think that any publicity they receive (no doubt it will be negative from us guys) will put them on the map and make it easier for the not so well informed to seek them out and keep them in business. I don't think a "name and shame" policy is necessarily the right route to take.
Click to expand...

I propose the opposite. Can we start a list of breeders that are known NOT to be puppy mills? SO many people come on here looking for reputable breeders - it would be nice if we could point them in the right direction.


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## Suliko

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*

*threefsh*, either or would work, I imagine. Saw "Evening Star Kennels" ad on my FB page. Frustrating indeed...


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## Suliko

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*

*datacan*, that is just awful  Sometimes people have to learn it the hard way. Can't really do much about it just spread the word and educate others.


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## gmk

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*



datacan said:


> Suliko said:
> 
> 
> 
> *datacan*, never seen this ad. But then again, I hardly ever pay attention to the adds here. What's with the vitamins?! And, of course, why would one ever mention that Vizsla is a hunting dog :
> 
> 
> 
> its a puppy mill in CA. I clicked the ad and browsed through the site. Obviously, fake site with borrowed stolen pictures. I think I have seen one of the pictures on this site.
> I am afraid the ad was tailored for this site exclusively.
> http://www.goldenmeadowsretrievers.com/Vizsla Home.htm
> 
> The meds are there to go and make money for them... every day a pill, otherwise health warranty is not honored... I wonder how they can enforce that.
> It is the worst I have seen so far. They market Golden retrievers and Vs ???
Click to expand...

Well lets see where to start with this lovely post.
My name is Tim Hoke.
I own Golden Meadows Retrievers. So I take this post rather personally. 
We use Google Adword to advertise, so that is mostly likely the reason for you having seen the ad. The web site is obviously allowing google to place on the site in return for money.
The site is hardly fake! And if you are seeing any of the pictures from my site other places, that means that someone has stolen them from me NOT the other way around. The picture that someone attached was taken by one of my clients the dog's name is Manny. And because the client is rather well known I won't post his name. We respect our clients privacy. 
We are not a puppy mill & I take great offence to that that label & all of its ugly connotations. We are in fact an AKC Breeder of Merit, and have been inspected yearly for over 10 by the AKC to insure that my facilities, dogs & records are all in order. I show my dogs both AKC & IABCA conformation. We have been breeding Vizslas for about 7 years & Golden for 20. So I know more than a little about the breeding, health, showing, conformation for both breeds. Yes I have some Evening Star Kennels in my lines, I also have Vadazfai & VonDerReithen kennels in my lines as well a quite a few other kennels from the U.S. We have a high quality breeding program. We remain in contact with the owners of Vasazfai & VonDerReithen kennels, both of them as well as other German & Hungarian breeders are VERY impressed with our program & the quality of dogs we are producing. We have been discussing with VonDerReithen the possibility of exporting a dog to Germany. Hardly the work of a puppy mill! We are scheduling a trip to Hungary next year for the Vizsla Field trails. We anticipate taking at least one & possibly 2 of dogs to show there.
To writer of this post before you write a post that is not based on first hand knowledge & only on your own since of superiority, it would behoove you to make certain of all of your facts. The style that you wrote your post makes it a libelous statement, since at no point is there a disclaimer that this is your opinion. You wrote as if you have first hand knowledge of our facility, dogs & breeding program. If that is so please by all means give me your name so I can check against our appointment calendar to see when you came out & meet us & our dogs. Or are you like so many people on the internet that only have the "courage of anonymity" when they attack some one. 
You are welcome to schedule an appointment to come out meet us, our dogs & our puppies. I stand behind my lines, my breeding program, my dogs & my clients, and will always vehemently defend them from an unwarranted attack from any quarter.


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## R E McCraith

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*

GMK - the message is we do not want breeders advertising here - if you have time read the 4 reviews on yelp - these people were hurt both emotionally and financially - looking at your sites you are not a hobby breeder but someone in it for the money! if you let google post anywhere without knowing where it goes - I hope your feelings will be hurt again!


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## threefsh

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*



GMK said:


> I stand behind my lines, my breeding program, my dogs & my clients, and will always vehemently defend them from an unwarranted attack from any quarter.


*
"Kennel care at center of dog fight"
*

http://www.vcstar.com/news/2009/jul/25/adfasdfasdfasdfasdf/

_"The co-owner of a high-end Moorpark dog kennel and breeding facility was arrested Friday on suspicion of stealing a dog, cruelty to animals and filing a false police report.

The incident involving Golden Meadows Kennels co-owner Barbara Hoke comes after a month of back-and-forth accusations by the people involved, confusing tales of who owned the dog, and conflicting stories of how the dogs at the facility are treated.

Hoke, 51, said she has been wrongly accused and is a target of a disgruntled employee. But law enforcement officials say they believe she was abusing her golden retrievers and vizslas dogs — some of which cost $7,000 — with an *electric cattle prod and shock collars*[/color].

All this comes after a Ventura County agency issued a citation earlier this month to the Hokes for not having the needed permit to run a kennel.

*“They are operating illegally,”*[/color] said Gloria Goldman, senior code compliance officer with the Ventura County Code Compliance Division. She said the owners have a notice of violation to fix the problem, which would require them to remove the dogs from the property and then get the needed permit. Hoke declined to comment about the permit.

The case began earlier this month when employees at the kennel on Clinton Street called the Humane Society and other agencies complaining about how dogs were being treated at the facility.

Though officials did see some dogs in kennels that were too small and exposed to too much sun, none of the *more than 100 animals*[/color]’ lives were in immediate danger and the problems were correctable, Ventura County Sheriff’s Department Sgt. Will Hammer said at the time. It was after that Goldman issued the citation.

About a week later, Hoke called police and said five dogs had been stolen by some of the now former employees who had complained to authorities. Hammer said that a few days after that, Hoke went to the house of former employee Cathy Goldberg. When Hoke tried to take the dog by force, the police were called. Hoke showed papers that she said proved the dog was hers, so police gave Hoke the dog, Hammer said.

But a subsequent investigation found that the dog did not belong to Hoke, Hammer said. That also led to several former employees telling Hammer that an electronic cattle prod and shock collar were used on the dogs, he said.

While they can be used for legitimate reasons, Hammer said he saw pictures of burn marks on dogs, showing they were used in what he suspects was a cruel manner. The items were found at the kennel when officials recently executed a search warrant.

Hoke was arrested Friday and posted $10,000 bail.

She said when all the facts come out, she and her husband, Tim, who co-owns the facility, will be vindicated.

“We take extremely good care of our dogs and puppies, and they are in top-notch condition and we feed them top-notch food and groom them every two weeks,” she said. Hoke claims that a disgruntled employee is to blame for the accusations.

“These allegations are completely false,” Tim Hoke said."_


*Breeder In The Dog House
Accused Of Grand Theft, Animal Cruelty, Filing False Report
By: KVTA News
2009-07-24*

http://www.kvta.com/content_page.php?pid=local_news (--> link is old, but I'm sure we could have them confirm)

_"The Ventura County Sheriff's Department is accusing a Moorpark area dog breeder of grand theft, animal cruelty, and filing a false report of a crime.

They say it all started with some employees at the Golden Meadows Kennels complaining to the authorities about the treatment of dogs at the facility. That prompted the Sheriff's Department, Humane Society, and County Code Enforcement to visit the facility in the 12000 block of Clinton Street in the unincorporated area near Moorpark.

*Deputies say they found puppies being housed in crates so small they could not stand or turn around and did not have access to water. They found grown dogs with open sores*[/color] but were being cared for by employees.

Ultimately, the owners, Tim and Barbara Hoke of Moorpark were issued a citation by Code Enforcement because they did not have a conditional use permit for the facility. All that happened on July 2nd.

Deputies say that on July 7th Barbara Hoke filed a grand theft report claiming that several employees had stolen dogs from the kennel when they resigned after the July 2nd incident.

Deputies say an investigation determined the allegations were false and that Hoke had actually allowed the employees to take the dogs, in one case giving a puppy to an employee as a gift.

Deputies say on July 11th, Hoke went to Simi Valley to take that puppy back by force. Simi Valley Police responded and she showed them breeding paperwork and other information that convinced the officers to seize the puppy and give it to Hoke.

Later, Simi Valley Police say they determined the paperwork was false and that Hoke should not have been allowed to take the puppy, which is now missing.

The former kennel employee had also accused Hoke of using an *electronic "cattle prod" and remote control "shock collar" as a training aid. Deputies say that while the shock collar can be used legitimately, an investigator felt it was being used to such an extent as to fall within the definition of cruelty to animals.*[/color]

Deputies also say that the employees who reported the conditions at the kennel have been subject to accusatory emails from Hoke who say they say has made it difficult for them to find work in the animal training field. Deputies commended the employees for coming forward with their allegations."_

*This review comes directly from Yelp:*

_
"ZERO STARS! Buyer beware - do not buy a dog from this breeder. Why?

1) Despite both contractual and verbal promises, our dog is not AKC registration eligible. Which means, despite having forked over big bucks, we have no way of ensuring that he is a purebred dog. HIGHLY unethical business practice, never mind breach of contract.

2) Despite promises of good health, *our puppy arrived with fleas, giardia (= lots of diarrhea and vet visits), and skin allergies*[/color] that had never been mentioned. They also failed to tell us he did not play well with soft toys, so two weeks after arriving in our home he managed to inhale a soft toy. To the vet (again) for a $2K visit to be sure he had not obstructed his bowel.

3) Despite promises, he did not have manners becoming almost $3K worth of professional training when he arrived. Our dog-walker had to muzzle him in the car to prevent him from eating the seats. He chewed his way out of two crates (with video evidence to boot). Their Cesar Milan method of training advised using a choke chain which did nothing but choke him....we remedied his pulling with a kind, gentle harness recommended by the SPCA. Jumping on people, growling at the neighbor and more. Completely fraudulent promises...he had some basic skills but this was not a well-trained, professionally schooled animal. Do not trust their web site promises ... they told us our puppy could be a therapy dog!

After trying to get help from them and also ask for fair business practice with regards to all these unexpected and unfair expenses, the breeder stopped replying to our calls or emails. It's only been with the threat of a law suit that we get one terse and litigious response.

Save yourself money and heartache - avoid this breeder. Sure, the pictures are cute on their web page and they are really nice when you're about to spend a lot of money. But once the check is in the bank, the tune changes and the song ain't pretty."_

*Good luck ever convincing us that you are a respectable breeder. You produced 3 LITTERS of Vizsla puppies this summer according to your website. Not a puppy mill? Try again.*


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## texasred

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*

GMK 
You must be accustom to vehemently defending yourself,but your wasting your precious time posting anything on this forum.


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## redbirddog

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*

GMK,

I'd be more then happy to come visit your operation and give a review. I have no problem keeping an open-mind. 

Before hand I would check with both the Northern and Southern California chapters of the Vizsla Clubs board of directors for permission and after my visit post my findings on my blog and this forum.

You can e-mail me a invitation anytime. You are not that far from the Bay Area. 

RBD


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## R E McCraith

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*

Tex RBD - even his post to defend himself was an advertisement - on his web site could you find any pedigrees - ofa - awards his pups have won - just cute puppy pictures with cute names and this one could be yours - big AKC breeder of merit ! not one fact where shows any concern for improving any breed - RBD if you go visit and need to use the 20ga -call me I'll bail you out!


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## redbirddog

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*

This thread makes me think of the classic movie "12 Angry Men." 11 juriors were "sure" the kid was guilty after the trial deliberations. Only Henry Fonda wasn't sure. Highly recommended movie to rent.

I know Ventura County as an almost "communist" county government. It is one of the craziest socialist county governments in the country. 

HSUS and PETA are not above "blacklisting" a successful breeder using social media. Actually I'd expect them to use that tactic. Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" at work.

Mr. Hoke. I'll give you a fair shake. Look over my blog Redbirddog. You'll know I am no fan of commerical breeders but I also know that you would have a huge target on your back placed there by the animal rights nazis.

You might be full of BS or not. I shift BS for a living in my line of work. 

Let me know if you'd like to extend that invite.

Rod aka RBD
http://redbirddog.blogspot.com


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## threefsh

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*



redbirddog said:


> HSUS and PETA are not above "blacklisting" a successful breeder using social media.


_"Though officials did see some dogs in kennels that were too small and exposed to too much sun, none of the *more than 100 animals*[/color]’ lives were in immediate danger and the problems were correctable, Ventura County Sheriff’s Department Sgt. Will Hammer said at the time. It was after that Goldman issued the citation."_

When has a reputable breeder ever had over 100 animals on their property at any given time? Oh, that's right... never. : Heck, I'd even back HSUS and PETA on this one. 

I'll be surprised if he even shows his face again on this forum. I'm going to do some more digging and see if I can find the results of the investigation.


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## gmk

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*

Now, if you bothered to fully research that you would find that everything was dropped. The employee that leveled the allegations stole 3 puppies from us. We managed to recover one vizsla pup from her. She had 5 other dogs in a 2 bedroom house with 6 people living in it the house was a pig sty.
The D.A. dropped all charges after we produced 30 witnesses that testified at the preliminary hearing that the dog belonged to us & was never given to this employee. The other allegations were the result of this employee with ties HSUS trying to close us down. She convinced 2 other employees to stop doing their jobs correctly. These employees were written up for failure to follow protocol. They placed the puppies in crates that were too small in order to bolster their false allegations. 
When the Humane society toured the property the ONLY problem they had was that they felt we needed more dog houses in a couple of runs & additional shade on 2 runs. If they felt the dogs were in danger or that we really were a "puppy mill" they were prepared to remove all of our dogs from the property. They didn't take a single animal, because my dogs are all in excellent health, well cared for & quite pampered. In fact one my employees remarked in an interview the Humane Society that we wished he ate half as well as the dogs did.
As to me being in this for the money. Yes I am a professional breeder, I am very proud of that fact. I have through the years, bettered my lines, produced healthier animals. I don't have a single dog with under a "good" ofa rating the majority of dogs have "excellent" hip scores. My rate of dogs that developed cancer, hip dysplasia, epilepsy is so far below the national average it amazes even me. 
Our dogs are our life, they are our passion. We have spent years learning about genetics, health, animal husbandry, veterinary care. We have missed vacations, weddings, school plays because we needed to be with an animal that needed our undivided attention. I have hundreds of pictures of children & grandchildren however I have tens of thousand of pictures of my dogs. It's because of "hobby" breeders that we have plethora genetic defects in our pure bred dogs. People who mean well but have no experience or knowledge of standards, evaluation, genetics that have produced the poor quality animals that have caused such heart ache to so many.
And if you think that those kennels whose dogs are listed in the top ten in nation are not professional breeders you are sadly mistaken. In order to produce a champion it takes money, time, knowledge, quality lines. It doesn't happen because I have girl & my friend has a boy & lets have puppies. It is because of professional breeders that did testing before anyone required that it be done the average life span has increased, it is professional breeders that educate the general public on the pros & cons of their breed, it is professional breeders that supported the AKC for over 100 years. We are the reason that YOU are able to own a pure bred dog, that they are no longer solely the domain the wealthy. Without us the Vizsla's would be around today.
Again, you are more than welcome to call & make an appointment to meet us & our dogs. 
Now back to the topic at hand ADVERTISEMENTS: If you are so offended by my advertisement appearing on this web site, then write to the web master/owner. The only way an advertisement can appear here is if the web master is accepting *MONEY* from Google for them to appear. Do you understand that? The owner of this web site is making MONEY on it! OMG they must be a horrible person for accepting money for their time, knowledge & experience. Could it be that they are a professional? (just is case you missed it that is call rhetoric) 
I am done with this topic, go ahead flame away, vent your spleen, call me all the names in the book. At the end of the day, I took the high road, I don't need to be vitriolic, mean or disparaging to any member on this board (unlike others) in order to get my point across. I KNOW what I am doing in my breeding program has produced higher quality animals than I started with, you are welcome to believe me or not, you are welcome to come out & meet us or not. However I have found that the self righteous don't like to have their point of view rebuked or questioned at all. It is so much easier to throw mud than have a reasoned discussion. I generally refrain from posting on boards like this because of those few persons who tend to hijack a discussion & turn it into elementary school fight right down to the name calling. (hmm maybe I should have stated this whole post with "I'm rubber you're glue what bounces off of me sticks on you") 
In closing I will paraphrase the old adage, Those who can: do, those can't: teach, those who can't teach: spend way too much time posting on chat forums. (OK so that last statement was a bit nasty but I couldn't resist)

PS Redbirddog,please send me an email or give me a call you would be most welcome to come out here, I will give you access to the whole facility. I would only ask that refrain from interacting with other animals on the day of your appointment until after your visit. (I know too many breeders that have had infections brought in by outsiders) We are available Mon-Sat between 11-4. And I do thank you for open mindedness it can be a rare commodity on a chat forum.


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## harrigab

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*

GMK, vizslas are originally from Hungary....not Hungry, just something I saw on the opening line of the link.


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## R E McCraith

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*

GMK - it is the hobby breeder that has protected the breed - the pups are part of their family and because of that they get every opportunity to be well socialized - they breed for the breed and not just for money - have never met a hobby breeder that ties the pups guarantee to buying Nu Vet Plus or any other product that you track to keep the guarantee in place - do you really buy $20,000 of that product per year for your 100 dogs ? doubt it (Maybe wrong ) I would not use the word PROFESSIONAL in your title when you have a 100 dogs on 5 acres !


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## calum

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*



GMK said:


> Now back to the topic at hand ADVERTISEMENTS: If you are so offended by my advertisement appearing on this web site, then write to the web master/owner. The only way an advertisement can appear here is if the web master is accepting *MONEY* from Google for them to appear. Do you understand that? The owner of this web site is making MONEY on it! OMG they must be a horrible person for accepting money for their time, knowledge & experience. Could it be that they are a professional? (just is case you missed it that is call rhetoric)


I respect that people use this forum to talk about whatever they want, within our rules. That is why I have left all these posts.

However, I would like to point out that I am not making any money from this site and I am not a professional. I set up this site as I have a Vizsla and couldn't find anywhere good to chat or get help. I made no profit last year. The adverts paid for the hosting and domain, the rest I paid out my own pocket.

I think the difference is that this site is obviously not money making, whereas who would have a business that is designed to lose money?

As RBD is a very respected member of this forum I think it would be in your interest to invite him for a visit.


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## R E McCraith

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*

Calum - when do PIKE & I get to use the forums private jet again ? if money was ever an issue here - thank GOD you never give financial advice - keep us going & keep us going STRONG !


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## harrigab

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*



R said:


> Calum - when do PIKE & I get to use the forums private jet again ? if money was ever an issue here - thank GOD you never give financial advice - keep us going & keep us going STRONG !


I'm borrowing it next week to jet over for that canoeing trip


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## calum

I split this topic from the original advertisements one since it wasn't really on topic, and some people might still want to ask questions about the adverts. Feel free to continue using this thread though.


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## WillowyndRanch

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*



redbirddog said:


> This thread makes me think of the classic movie "12 Angry Men." 11 juriors were "sure" the kid was guilty after the trial deliberations. Only Henry Fonda wasn't sure. Highly recommended movie to rent.
> 
> I know Ventura County as an almost "communist" county government. It is one of the craziest socialist county governments in the country.
> 
> HSUS and PETA are not above "blacklisting" a successful breeder using social media. Actually I'd expect them to use that tactic. Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" at work.
> 
> Mr. Hoke. I'll give you a fair shake. Look over my blog Redbirddog. You'll know I am no fan of commerical breeders but I also know that you would have a huge target on your back placed there by the animal rights nazis.
> 
> You might be full of BS or not. I shift BS for a living in my line of work.
> 
> Let me know if you'd like to extend that invite.
> 
> Rod aka RBD
> http://redbirddog.blogspot.com


Rod, you amaze me more everyday!

RBD, if your visit is after the first part of October when I return from Summer Camp, I'd love to join you if that is acceptable to Mr. Hoke.

Mr. Hoke, it will be a physical impossiblity for me to not have contact with any other dogs prior to visiting you and your facility, however I will take appropriate measures, sanitize hands, fresh boots, etc.
Ken Kuivenhoven
Willowynd Ranch Vizslas & Training


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## luv2laugh

I just found this thread and it is super interesting to me. 

1) the ads are google and I don't think we can control them. I don't see any of them because I put some kind of setting on my computer awhile back so it blocks them. 

2) I recognized this site when I clicked into it. We are located in LA county and this was one of the places that I looked at online when we first started looking into getting a vizsla. We never visited, but I did correspond via email with them before I started building relationships with other breeders. If I'd found the thread a bit earlier, I could have remarked that I knew it was a real place instead of just an ad set up. 

I hope that RBD and Ken from Willowynd do go check it and get back with their feedback. I feel a bit bad for the owner. Defensiveness never comes off as flattering, but sometimes it can be difficult not to respond that way when attacked. 

GMK - It is obvious you are not familiar with these forums. Implying that RBD would bring disease into your dogs was hurtful and rude, especially when he was standing up for you and offering to give your place a fair chance. We, as a community, can be a bit pompous at time (I certainly can), but we care about the breed above anything else. Hobby breeders do genetic testing and put a lot of thought and money into preserving the breed. It think the term, backyard breeders better describes people whom will just breed two of their own dogs or their dog with a friend's.


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## texasred

luv2laugh
Anyone raising puppies needs to be vigilant on what is brought on their property. Parvo is a big killer of puppies and is spread easily through human contact.
With a few easy steps RBD and Ken could make sure they brought nothing to the kennels that would harm the dogs/puppies there.


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## luv2laugh

Good to know - thanks Texasred. I thought it was a jab. How quickly I forget how vulnerable they are as puppies.


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## threefsh

*Re: Golden Meadows Kennel*



WillowyndRanch said:


> redbirddog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Hoke. I'll give you a fair shake. Look over my blog Redbirddog. You'll know I am no fan of commerical breeders but I also know that you would have a huge target on your back placed there by the animal rights nazis.
> 
> You might be full of BS or not. I shift BS for a living in my line of work.
> 
> Let me know if you'd like to extend that invite.
> 
> Rod aka RBD
> http://redbirddog.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> Rod, you amaze me more everyday!
> 
> RBD, if your visit is after the first part of October when I return from Summer Camp, I'd love to join you if that is acceptable to Mr. Hoke.
> 
> Mr. Hoke, it will be a physical impossiblity for me to not have contact with any other dogs prior to visiting you and your facility, however I will take appropriate measures, sanitize hands, fresh boots, etc.
> Ken Kuivenhoven
> Willowynd Ranch Vizslas & Training
Click to expand...

Has either of you received an invitation to visit the esteemed "Golden Meadows" puppy factory? Looks like we have a baby puppy sick with Coccidia sold to a new, unsuspecting forum member. Things aren't looking good for Mr. Hoke. 

I think you'd have to worry about sanitizing your clothes/shoes/hands *AFTER* visiting his facility unless you want your own precious pups coming down with something.


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## WillowyndRanch

I've not received any invitation or contact. I don't believe RBD has either, I think he would have discussed that with me.

Ken


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## R E McCraith

RBD & Ken - being honest and kind is a great trait - PIKE & I hoped that golden meadows would wither and DIE on the Vine - their web sites said it all - but a benchmark is what we need - THANK YOU !


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## redbirddog

So........ I took the trip down to Golden Meadows Kennels Saturday to see for myself. Some may remember this controversial thread from last summer.

364 miles and 5 hours later, I arrived at the entrance to Golden Meadows Kennels. The sign had a profile of a Golden Retriever and "Golden Meadows Kennels est. 1992" on it.

I spent 90 minutes with Tim and Barbara Hoke, the owners since their start in 1992 with two dogs, going over philosophy of breeding dogs and how they run their operation. I took a full tour of the grounds and met the pups and the sires and dames and the five member full- time staff plus their grown daughter. Nothing was not open to me seeing.

I will be posting my findings and understanding of what I came across on Redbirddog during the next week. I'm going to do it in a four part series on commercial, puppy mill, hobby and boutique breeding practices. 

it was interesting to say the least and it will take awhile for me to place it all in words and pictures.

RBD


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## simpletea

Wow!!!! I am so impressed RBD. I look forward to your post.


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## luv2laugh

I'm looking forward to the posts as well - thank you for checking them out! Please make sure to post the links to this thread so we can find them easily.


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## calum

I will try and put a link to the relevant article(s) on RBD's blog in the first post, once he has written them. 

I don't want this thread to damage the reputation of a good breeder, and considering it is numer 3 in google for "golden meadow kennels" then it has the potential to do so. 

This also means if the review is negative/neutral/whatever is will also be linked to in the first post - that way people can make their own opinion.


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## Rudy

How about we trash this

unless the facts are from a pro'

or better yet let the truth do the work not a fake $ss pc 

Pressing BS is a copy and pasters

and I am sure we can add something of risk  and more value then this

if its a mess

it folds

turds rise to the top

bagging and tagging a pc is a coward and weak and just a onion or orange ;D

Show me a war at a cancer center for kids without hope or love with a great V dog

that maybe a value to grasp 

slander a onion you could tear some ;D

a orange a cancer sore ;D

this is a tag an bag to me

and about as productive as a Xmas tree in May

let it go

find some without hope

then we can smile miles to me


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## R E McCraith

RBD - PIKE & I thank you 4 the road trip - when you post again did they change their sales contract ? no refunds and 2 yr health Gur tied 2 a vitamin that has nothing 2 do with disp - do they still have 2 breeding sites - claim to have all their litters with a OFA rating above good but the majority at excellent - do they register all the litters with AKC - did they give you litter certificates - how often do they breed the dam & what happens 2 her @ retirement - these R not my ?'s - just 1's I read on consumer complaints - Calum - let the facts fall were they may - $ PIKE & me 2 many RED FLAGS !!!!!!!!!


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## redbirddog

I'm off to walk the dogs in my hills. This is what is important to me.

For those looking for a professional assessment of GMK, sorry, none went, so I did. A true neophyte in the breeding world.

For those looking for a review of GMK, sorry not going to give my opinion of another man.

Next to me are two books:
_Ayn Rand: Objectivist Epistemology 
Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand_

I went down not for the HVF members but for myself. I wanted to see for myself this thing called "Commercial Breeder." I have posted many things about puppy mills, internet sales dog sites and commercial breeders over the last four years of Redbirddog, but had never seen one.

I had painted "commercial breeder" with a wide brush.

Observation is all I can offer, not opinion or advice. A man or woman MUST commit enough energy and time into the choices they make. Choice of breeder is a CHOICE and thankfully, we still have such a wonderful thing.

There are many smarter people on this forum than me. For that I am certain, who could give a highly qualified opinion of GMK. That will not be me. It is against my "philosophy of objectivism.

Blog posts will happen later this week. My 60 hour a week job leaves little time for more than work and the dogs. 

Calum, please don't expect more, because I won't either approve or disapprove of another man's actions. 



> I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.


- _Ayn Rand_

I will tell only what I saw.



> "Don't blindly believe what I say. Don't believe me because others convince you of my words. Don't believe anything you see, read, or hear from others, whether of authority, religious teachers or texts. Don't rely on logic alone, nor speculation. Don't infer or be deceived by appearances."
> 
> "Do not give up your authority and follow blindly the will of others. This way will lead to only delusion."
> 
> "Find out for yourself what is truth, what is real. Discover that there are virtuous things and there are non-virtuous things. Once you have discovered for yourself give up the bad and embrace the good."


 - The Buddha

RBD


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## R E McCraith

RBD - just a post Vbefore you post - nothing more nothing less - I did not go to GMK - I do not research like U do - just things I'Ve read on their web site - put it out there it should V true - U are out to the hills - PIKE & I R off to the couch - single barrel bourbon in hand & mutt in the lap - that is after a day off lead - PIKE & me - VVe GO VVith a high quailty HOBBY BREEDER - reading the Count of Monte Cristo - ReVenge is always a 2 edged sword - read it every year -yet 2 learn LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!


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## stryker

Pick your breeder with at least the same amount of care you put into picking your fruit


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## stanleyboy

Just read RBD's blog and I'm so impressed that you went to GMK to see for yourself. We got our 1st V, Stanley, from GMK in January 2013 and we were novices to this process. We visited GMK twice and we always felt comfortable with the breeder-especially their daughter whom we talked with on the phone several times. Living in Southern California there seemed to be only a few options when we decided a V was the dog we wanted to bring into our family. We researched and felt we asked all the right questions. It wasn't until after we brought our pup home and started reading posts on this website that we began to doubt the integrity of our breeder. Had we picked a puppy mill? That couldn't be. 

We have the most wonderful puppy. Stanley has brought so much joy and love to our family. He is healthy and happy and we are so pleased with our choice choosing a V and also with our breeder. I respect this message board and go to this website whenever I have a question about Vs. This forum is so helpful for a first time V owner. It can also be quite overwhelming and full of strong opinions- as to be expected because our Vs are our children and the way we choose to raise them is up for each individual to decide. 

we don't live in the country and we have limitations on of leash options for our V. We live at the beach where dogs are not even allowed on the beach (although we sneak Stanley on the beach at sunset in winter time - he loves the beach!). It seems like the breeders are also different depending on where you live (larger operations servicing the southern ca lifestyle). it's frustrating to read the opinion of a V owner in England somewhere who says something negative about a breeder in Southern California when they have never visited that breeder. 

We stand behind our puppy and behind Golden Meadows. They may produce more puppies and might be considered a "commercial breeder" but we have a wonderful, well mannered, easy going, full of personality, sweet boy and we couldn't have asked for a better dog!


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