# Flea, tick, and worm control



## nymeria (Jan 18, 2016)

What do people do about flea, tick, heart worm, and other worm control? I really can't decide. Our breeder recommends none of it, but I'm concerned about the potential health risks. My V just recovered from a broken toe and restricting her activity for 6 weeks was not easy, and I'd hate to have to do that to her again if she gets heart worm, plus, what if there is long term damage or she doesn't survive? We don't have many mosquitoes where I live in SoCal, but in the summer they can flourish. I was thinking of treating her from May - November, which covers the warmest months here. As far as ticks go, she loves romping through fields of grass and exploring everywhere when we hike, and she's already had a couple of ticks I've had to remove. She eats a raw diet and she's super healthy, but the ticks still find her occasionally. So far, I haven't seen any fleas. 

I want to keep her safe and happy, but I'm so concerned about giving her insecticides. Any advice/experience would be helpful. Thanks!


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

I avoid using chemical preventatives as much as possible, so that's my bias. 

Heart worm preventative is the one thing I do give, but only use it when temps are consistently above 57F. Even then I stretch out the doses longer than the 30 day period because it takes longer than that for the microfilaria to advance to the next stage. I also follow up heart worm meds with milk thistle for a week, with the purpose of offsetting bad effects from the drugs. Read up on it. I bought it in a powdered from from a pet store and mix up the recommended dose with a raw egg or pumpkin and feed once a day with dinner (also raw). Heartguard (ivermectin) is my current choice, but I just try to stay on top of the research and go from there. 

For ticks, I've found the best thing is daily checks. It takes 24 hours to transfer disease, so I feel comfortable checking once a day or more if we've been in a tick heavy area, even if I find engorged ones. I've tried a variety of essential oils-lavender, cedar, tea tree-both diluted and full strength. I think they help reduce the amount, but certainly don't completely repel them. I've also tried a natural amber collar which was supposed to repel them through static electricity and by distributing pine resin throughout the fur. I was skeptical going into it, and ultimately it proved pretty useless. 

For fleas-you may have also read that feeding a raw diet and building a strong immune system helps repel pests like this. I don't really believe that, but the two times my girl has gotten fleas, she had very few of them and even when living in a subtropical climate, I never felt the need to give a preventative. I got some diatomaceous earth, rubbed it into her fur daily for a few days and the fleas were gone. For a bigger infestation, I would also recommend sprinkling it on any bedding, carpets, etc., letting it sit for a few hours and then laundering/vacuuming.


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## hecallsmebama (Mar 31, 2016)

I do not claim to be an expert on this topic. I've only been a fur mommy for two months! However, about three or four weeks ago, Amos started bringing ticks into the house and we were pulling them off of every member of the family. Afterall, we are equal opportunity cuddle partners. : Amos was not on any kind of flea or tick protection at the time. I had asked at his previous vet visit about it and the vet was not concerned about starting him on anything. I WAS concerned because our property backs to wooded wetlands and we have had a warm winter. Anyway, long story short I needed protection and I needed it quick. The topicals just weird us out. I honestly have not done my research there. I just know I don't want to rub pesticides on him and then have him on the couch, cuddling my kids. We have enough health issues without adding that to the mix or lime disease, for that matter! All my vet offered was topicals for dogs under 6 months old, so we called another vet who is our friend that picked Amos out for us and he recommended Nexgard for our situation. Again, I personally have not done my research on the pros and cons of this product either, but given we needed relief fast, I can say that it did just that. We went from pulling on average two ticks a day off or out of someone to none in 24 hours. I don't know if we will stay with the product, but we will HAVE to use something. As far as heart worm, we have Amos on Sentinel but the Heartgard was also highly recommended to us. I'm curious about other's preventative measures as well since I feel we've entered this realm somewhat haphazardly.


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

I don't think anyone is wild about the idea of "Chemicals", even outside the Vizsla enthusiast community.

It's best to 1) Find out the prevalence of tick borne illness in your particular area, 2) Determine you and your V's exposure rate, and perhaps most importantly, 3) What your risk tolerance is. The determining factor should be risk/benefit, not your feelings about chemicals. 

There are many types of ticks, and depending on your location, all have been found to carry some pathogen. The Deer Tick is the size of a poppy seed and very easy to miss, even by the most anal compulsive among us. Although the new Lyme vaccine is supposedly 85-90% effective, there's no protection from the other illnesses, like Anaplasmosis or Erlichiosis or Rocky Mountian Spotted Fever, all of which can do some serious, permanent damage to various organ systems. If your dog is at risk of coming into contact with ticks on an ongoing basis, then consider the benefits of using one of the products out there that have been on the market the longest (and hence have the longest record to search), like Frontline.


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## nymeria (Jan 18, 2016)

Gingerling said:


> I don't think anyone is wild about the idea of "Chemicals", even outside the Vizsla enthusiast community.
> 
> It's best to 1) Find out the prevalence of tick borne illness in your particular area, 2) Determine you and your V's exposure rate, and perhaps most importantly, 3) What your risk tolerance is. The determining factor should be risk/benefit, not your feelings about chemicals.
> 
> There are many types of ticks, and depending on your location, all have been found to carry some pathogen. The Deer Tick is the size of a poppy seed and very easy to miss, even by the most anal compulsive among us. Although the new Lyme vaccine is supposedly 85-90% effective, there's no protection from the other illnesses, like Anaplasmosis or Erlichiosis or Rocky Mountian Spotted Fever, all of which can do some serious, permanent damage to various organ systems. If your dog is at risk of coming into contact with ticks on an ongoing basis, then consider the benefits of using one of the products out there that have been on the market the longest (and hence have the longest record to search), like Frontline.


I'm certainly not basing my decision on feelings, but rather on data that highlights the risks of these treatments. Hence my concern and question regarding exactly what you suggest I consider: the risk/reward of using these products. It is still not clear to me that treating with insecticides is worth it, and I'm very familiar with the way in which the FDA approves drugs in both animals and humans, the vast difference between them, and the consequently unfortunate limitations in the long-term safety data in animals based on well-designed, controlled trials.


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## Watsdakwento (Jan 10, 2016)

Excuse me if this is a basic question, but how do I go about checking the prevalence of tick borne diseases in my area? thank you.


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

People use different logic on the use of chemicals, and what I've found is that emotion plays a significant role. We're attached to out V's and want to protect them,a nd without the kind of studies that would provide reassurance on the long term effects of pesticide use, we're left with our own feelings to fill in the gaps. The mere use of the word "Pesticide" is emotionally laden and highly negative.

In my case, I live in a quasi rural/highly wooded area part time, and in a fully rural area the other part. A large part of my day (and enjoyment) is in the woods hiking with my V in both locations, and the prevalence of ticks (as well as tick borne pathogens) is extremely high. As much as I dislike pesticides and chemicals of any kind, I use Frontline (and Heartgard Plus) without any reservation. 

My first V had Ehrlichosis, and it was simply dreadful, even though it was caught before he was symptomatic (on a yearly routine CBC I always voluntarily did), he suffered permanent kidney damage, limited his activity, and ultimately, his life. I've had Lyme Disease, as well, and let me tell you, if there's anything you can do to reduce or eliminate the possibility of either if you live in an area that has ticks and known pathogens, you should. It's easy to talk theoretically, but once you've experienced the results of using nothing, you tend to look at the risk/benefit ratio a lot differently. In the Northeast USA where I live a whopping 99% of the ticks tested positive for Lyme, and btwn 60-85% had either another pathogen alone, or in combination with Lyme. The odds of eventually missing a tick and my beloved V contracting something outweigh emotion and concern for longer term effects.

To get that information on tick prevalence and pathogen, try the CDC website here in the USA. Check your local country otherwise.


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## Spy Car (Sep 3, 2014)

It has been very curious to me, figuring I'd need to deal with fleas sooner or later, that after two years I've not seen a single flea yet. I'm also in Southern California (Los Angeles) and Chester has been exposed to lots of other dogs at our local off leash.

I don't know if it is because other owners in the area are using systemics, or if the raw diet is adding protection, but not a single flea yet. Knock wood.

For heartworm, this area has always been very low-risk, however I did meet a woman recently who was aware of a recent case west of here, so I plan to discuss the issue with my vet. Like Einspänner, I would only treat when the overnight temps remain in the danger zone for the disease (details I'd need to refresh). Undecided at this moment.

Ticks and tick-borne illnesses are also pretty rare here. Were we under pressure, I would treat.

I'd do what I needed to do to keep my dog healthy and safe, but so far he's not needed insecticides so far.

Bill


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## nymeria (Jan 18, 2016)

Thanks, everyone, for the info and the CDC suggestion (I've taken a look, it's very interesting). Ticks and tick-borne illnesses are definitely an issue where I live and play, and I've taken a couple off her in just a week. Those suckers are not easy to remove, either. They really dig in. Heart worm is only really an issue during the warmer months here as the temperatures don't stay consistently high enough in the winter months. It appears to be localized in prevalence, at well. Where I live, the incidence is not very high, but just a town over the incidence is much higher. I need to find out more about the life cycle of other worm parasites. If they are still a risk in the colder months, I may have to treat for that year-round as well. 

I think ultimately I will have to treat for ticks and fleas, as I think they are prevalent enough in areas I frequent (I'm often in the mountains) to make it probably worth it. I really do wish the studies they do in animals were better than they are, but in the end I'm really starting to think it would be better for Mia to be on the preventatives and that the benefit is greater than the risk.


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