# Ununcontrollable running/hunting



## Robh (Jul 28, 2010)

I’ve got a VERY frustrating issue with my 2 year old bitch. She will uncontrollably run/hunt IN the farmer crops at particular point in our morning walk. When I say uncontrollably I mean she does not respond to recall (she is generally very good including whistle) in fact the more you recall her the more excited she gets. Eventually you have walk/run away and she’ll eventually catch you up at which point I slip her back on the lead (with no reward), let her calm down and then do a few back sit/stays to get be back under control. This has to stop because if the farmer see’s her he’s not going to be best pleased! She know she’s doing the wrong thing but it’s like she just can’t help herself. 

As she favours 2-3 places for this uncontrolled running I have gone back to basics. i.e. walking her past on a short lead and put her on a train line which is fine. Then I’ll walk her past to heal (off lead) when generally she is OK but now and again, just as you are starting to trust her, she’ll just make a break for it and off we go again!

I don’t want to have to walk on the lead past these areas all the time but of course I need to break the habit and be able to trust her. Guys I shoot with (all Lab owners) have suggested using a training collar to discourage her by making the crops an unpleasant place to be. This seems short sighted given that I might want her to hunt in similar fields in season. Unfortunately it’s not really practical for me to change the morning walk all together.

Any suggestions would be very welcome!


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Guys I shoot with (all Lab owners) have suggested using a training collar to discourage her by making the crops an unpleasant place to be.

I wouldn't listen to them. That is not the way to collar condition a dog. She will have no idea why she is feeling a correction, or how to turn off the pressure. 
They are talking about trash breaking or avoidance training.
The difference is those are used to stop a dog from going after what is not a game animal.
Find a vizsla or GSP trainer to help you if you decide to ecollar train you dog. Don't use a lab trainer that has never worked with bird dogs. Your friends run Labs not vizsla and following their advice can ruin your dog.


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## Robh (Jul 28, 2010)

you are right about getting the right training. I stopped using a gundog trainer as all they knew were Labs/Spaniels. Unfortunately HPR trainer are few and far between in the UK!


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Here is how I would train for this situation.
First, I would like to point out what you already know, but it's natural human behaviour. If she doesn't come when you really need her to - then she does not Recall very good. It's when they need to come in for a myriad of reasons, like - time to kennel or don't cross that road because there's a truck coming or the farmer is in the field with a gun protecting his cows... Recall is come when YOU say - period. 

I would use an e-collar. It is, besides the checkcord the most useful tool we have in our kit. BUT, I would not train the dog to it in the situation you describe. I would go back to the checkcord with the e-collar on and work on "Here" or "Come" or whatever recall command you give. I would do this at home, down the road, around a field and not let the dog run free. All check cord, all lesson. When the dog is turning immediately on checkcord, then I would overlay the e-collar on a low setting coincided with a tug on the cord to turn. 
I would do this for several days until I can touch with the e-collar with a command and the dog turns and comes in. Then I would proceed to new locations in the same outfit and let the check cord drag. Again, Recall is come when I call, regardless of the dogs other desires and interests. 
By truly teaching recall and having the e-collar as a mile long leash, then there is no harm in giving her the command and the learned correction relating to recall when she is about to go into a crop field. She will associate it with the command, not that crop fields are a bad place.

Ken


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## Robh (Jul 28, 2010)

You are right about the selective recall but it is almost exclusively these crops when she does not recall when asked. Don’t worry, I’m not blaming the crops ;-)
I’ve been reluctant to use a training collar. I think in general they are used less in the UK. I’m open minded about them.


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## Oquirrh the V (Jun 24, 2011)

If it makes you feel better, Rob, Oquirrh (17 months) also has his "sweet spots" where he does not listen to a thing I'm saying, runs like a wild thing and literally goes nuts. He mostly does this in open areas. We are researching different trainers for the ecollar at this moment. For now, he is put on a long leash in his sweet spots, until we can acheive our goals.


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## jld640 (Sep 29, 2010)

Robh- You might try boundary training at her normal entrance point. Walk back and forth in front of her entrance point and give an 'uh-uh' and leash correction whenever her paw cross into the field. She has to be able to see the boundary, so it may be training her not to leave the road (asphalt to dirt). Work it off-leash, also. Boundary training isn't about walking nicely or good recall - it is all about not crossing a plane. Once you're sure she has the idea, even if she is not perfect, enter the field with her at heal so she knows she goes there when accompanied. 

I use boundary training with Savannah to keep her from crossing the streets at work. She is never allowed in the street on her own. We cross streets together at heal (on and off leash). For her, it only works with the streets I have specifically trained her to respect, e.g. she has no problem running through my neighborhood streets when I let her off leash. We usually have 100 - 200 feet of 'normal entrance points' on each street where we kept walking back and forth. 

This training takes TIME. Maybe starting at 2 year will speed up the process, but to this day, I will still call out to Savannah when she is running full tilt to 'stay out of the street'.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Boundary training is great for not crossing a street, but at some point I would think one would want the dog to enter a crop field if it's a field dog. In my opinion, this is a recall issue.

Even if one were to work this in boundary training, the e-collar transition is a godsend from a training standpoint. It is the transition from onlead to off.
Ken


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

I have been facing a similar issue, Robh. It does not involve corn fields, but I am coming to grips with the fact that Pumpkin's recall isn't good. It's good except, as WillowyndRanch said, when it really counts. If P is on a scent or bird, she will not recall. Even on a check cord, if quail/pigeon are involved, she drags me around like a piece of trash :-[ I purchased an ecollar, watched videos, and had Pumpkin just wear the collar on all outings for almost 2 wks. Then a death in the family completely stalled training. This thread cements the truth: we have a lot of work to do with Pumpkin. Good Luck to you!


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## jld640 (Sep 29, 2010)

Ooooo, sorry if I misunderstood. I have found boundary training only good for the specific area trained...so it's only good for not crossing _this _ particular street or staying out of _this_ particular field. Anything else is certainly a recall issue.


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## Robh (Jul 28, 2010)

Thank you all for your feedback. I’ve actually made some progress over the weekend by going back to basics : short recalls and lots of positive praise/reward. Sometimes you have to forget what your dog has historically been capable of focus where they are today, regroup and, if needed, go back to almost puppy training. We’ve had a couple of dashes into the crops over the weekend but not as bad as recent weeks. 
I think we all forget that sometimes we just have to back to basics despite how frustrating it might be.
I also took the opportunity to take her to unfamiliar grounds over the weekend to try and break the usual routes/regular hunting spots. I’m also going to our usual morning walk backwards again just to break the routine. Plus it’s a change for me too!

My Mrs is not keen at all the using a eCollar. As training is all about consistency, if she’s not prepared to use it, this might not be the right way forward for us.


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