# Where to purchase a V puppy?



## Geo (Feb 20, 2013)

Having just read some of the posts about Golden Meadows, I am really troubled. I made a nonrefundable deposit with Golden Meadows, and expect my puppy on March 28. If I proceed with the purchase, I will lose the deposit, but this will be my first V, and I don't want to get one that is sick or has some problems that won't show up until later. So could you please help me... 

If you were in my shoes, would you go ahead with the purchase, or go with another breeder? (If that is the case, who would you purchase a V from?)

Please, Please don't turn this into a posting where you bash Golden Meadows. Just tell me if you would proceed with the purchase, or if you'd go with someone else.

Thanks so much for your help.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Geo,

Have you seen the pedigree? Have you met the sire and dam? Have you SEEN the OFA reports? Have you been to the kennels to visit?

Take that information to someone who understands the breed, if you don't know. Good health in the pedigree? Normal or better hip x-rays? There is a Vizsla club somewhere in your area that you can ask "breeder referral." 

Will the breeder help you with any problems with the pup throughout it's life? This is a dog that will live with you for 14+ years.

The non-refundable deposit is not even a consideration in the big picture?

http://vcaweb.org/welfare/library.shtml

Hope that helps.

RBD


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

This is a decision only you can make, but the fact that you are having doubts is enough for me to recommend that you back out. Your breeder should be your number one advocate before and after you take this puppy home because there _are_ going to be problems. All those little questions people come to the forum to ask, are questions that a good breeder will want to answer because the pups they raised are an extension of themselves. Without knowing them, I can only assume that breeding at such a high volume will get in the way of that long term support. 

The deposit is only a fraction of what you'll spend on your best friend over the next dozen years even if he is perfectly healthy. 

Here is the OFA site where you can check the health clearances of your sire and dam offa.org
Here's a blog post titled Redefining the Puppy Mill http://rufflyspeaking.net/redefining-the-puppy-mill/

Good luck with your decision!


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

RBD 
Did they ever let you and Ken visit the kennels?


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## tech_dog (Feb 20, 2013)

If you haven't already, I'd visit the breeder and meet both the sire and the dam. Since it's Golden Meadows they very likely have both on the property. See if the dogs seem well socialized with good temperments. It will give you an indication as to how much human interaction and attention the dogs are getting.

While geting to know the sire and dam may not prove that everything is OK, it could prove that it's not. At least you'd be making a more informed decision. I thought I had a dog lined up, went to visit the breeder (not Golden Meadows) before finalizing my decision, and came home with my check still in my pocket because things were obviously not what they should have been.

As others suggested, review the pedegree, the hip certifications, etc, and back away if everything doesn't feel right. While losing $500 will be annoying, you'd spend nearly that much just buying the Nuvet vitamins that are required to avoid nullifying the health guarantee.


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## stryker (Dec 9, 2012)

Would you buy a car from a car dealer were not comfortable with? well then I guess you answered your own question. Move on


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

My guess is that you are only uncomfortable because of what you read on the forum regarding this breeder (though check out whatever yelp reviews are referred to!). I may not remember correctly, but I don't know if anyone actually personally had bad experience with the breeder. I remember feeling like the breeder felt attacked (and in some responses, he certainly was). He didn't even respond kindly to rbd, who was being very reasonable and nice. I think he just felt very attacked (which many of us would have). 

I would judge from other information you can find on here about what to expect from an ideal breeder (rather than the actual conversations). I agree, get the pedigrees checked out, meet the mom and dad, make sure to actually visit, ask the right questions, etc. Also check in with the so cal vizsla club who will have a better idea. 

If Golden Meadows stands up to scrutiny, then wonderful, you could even report back on here (if you wanted to). They may or may not. If health problems or behavioral problems are an issue I would back out. Once you fall in love with the baby, you will spend a lot of money and may go through a lot of grief if there are either health or behavioral issues. Wishing you the best!


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## zigzag (Oct 4, 2011)

If you really want to get opinions. Try posting the sire and dam names. From there we can research there pedigree. If OFA cert they will be in the data base. We can also find the coefficient of inbreeding.
Is it a Repeat breeding? Do you have access to others who own a dog .from this pairings. You may even be able to post a 5 gen pedigree, that will bring Out some opinions for Sure. Good luck.


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## KB87 (Jan 30, 2012)

Geo, do not take this personally, but I will be quite honest that I am troubled by your post. Being that you just read some of the posts regarding Golden Meadows and your pup is ready in less than a week I just want to make sure that you've done your research. By doing a quick googling of "Golden Meadow Vizslas" their yelp.com reviews come up with not so hot reviews, an article about the charges the breeders faced, a ripoff report and the Vizsla Forums thread all popped up in the first 8 hits. Just by researching via google this information should have crossed your path earlier, or so I would think. *However,* something had to make you want to put a deposit in with this breeder- did you visit their facilities? Did you meet dogs from prior litters? Did you hear about them from someone? What made you want a V from this breeder initially? Something had to excite you about this breeder to begin with, then I imagine you found the thread on here and are not sure what to do about your situation. I can understand this.

I would step back and remember what it was that made you put a deposit in with this breeder. Then I would start to weigh your pros and cons and think about the future of your pup. As others have pointed out, most importantly: will you have a healthy pup and will you have a supportive breeder? The fact that you are nervous/hesitant the week prior to picking your pup up is a sign that maybe you need to reevaluate. You're so close to getting your pup that you may not want to "back out" but starting over to find a new breeder isn't the end of the world- just a damper on the next few weeks. You really need to do some soul searching and check your gut to see if whatever is making you nervous is enough to make you find a new breeder. Losing a few hundred dollars is nothing in the grand scheme of your dog's life and your life.

Only you can make this decision. But I would suggest you do some additional research and think about why you initially wanted a pup from this kennel. Check on the dam and sire, check OFA, check health certs, discuss more with the breeder, ask more questions and when you are fully educated- make your decision BEFORE getting the pup. If you have questions about how to research, by all means ask on here or like RBD suggested, go to your local V club and get assistance through them. Educate yourself, research and then make the decision. Any other order outside of that may lead you down a less than desirable path. I wish you the best, Geo and hope you make the right decision for you!


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## zigzag (Oct 4, 2011)

Still curious about the pairing. 
That is a tell tail sign.


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

datacan said:


> Check out the bill of sale section 3 subsection c
> 
> http://www.goldenmeadowsretrievers....07/bill-of-sale-contract-Moondoggie-wyatt.doc
> 
> Who on earth ever can enforce this?


Holy crap! That is insane! 

I agree with the others. The doubts you have about them is enough. Your breeder is someone you should be able to ask questions and receive support. They should be there to encourage you and be there for you and know exactly which pup you have. IMO, these high sorts of volume breeders give all other breeders a bad name.


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

As far as where to get a pup, what are you looking for?


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## Geo (Feb 20, 2013)

Thanks so much all of you. You've been a big help. I've always had mixed breed dogs in the past, and had no idea of how much checking I should do in advance of the purchase. With your help, I am now much better informed. I still have over a month before I am scheduled to take delivery, and that will give me lots of time to make a good decision. Thanks again!!!


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## zigzag (Oct 4, 2011)

OMG! Look at gundog breeders.com I think that's the site that list breeders of merrit.




datacan said:


> Check out the bill of sale section 3 subsection c
> 
> http://www.goldenmeadowsretrievers....07/bill-of-sale-contract-Moondoggie-wyatt.doc
> 
> Who on earth ever can enforce this?


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Intellectual Property removed by Author.


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

I know this post isn't about money... but even if you are worried about losing 1000, if you are paying 2300 for this puppy you really wouldn't be losing in the end as many breeders are in the 800-1400 dollar range if you search the forum for the post on how much their V cost. 

So.... with money being completely out of the picture then may lend you to look more at the breeder and make a decision without the fear of losing a deposit in the picture. 

We too looked at Golden Meadows. If you look at the AKC features of a good breeder, unfortunately many of their qualities are not found in Golden Meadows. For example, they breed more than one breed of dog, require the NuVet supplement, and often have more than 1 litter of puppies at a time.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

please note that being a AKC breeder of merit is not a guarantee the breeder is any good - the good breeders I know usually offer limited registration at half the sale price - the good ones also allow you to buy full registration down the road if you so choose - some also require your pup to acheave certain goals before going to full - as usual RESEARCH is the KEY !!!!! this breeder has been discused on the forum before - to me him and his wife are bad news for any breed - get a contract lawyer to check it out and go from there


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## lildancngurl (Jan 13, 2013)

Wow, that contract scares me. 

Right of refusal? They won't take the pup back if the buyer can't keep it? Contact them if it is to be re-homed or put in the SHELTER?! 

Upon reading this, I'd run. No good breeder would ever, ever not take a puppy that they bred back. On top of that, being alright with them ending up in a shelter. Yikes.

I can only imagine what that conversation would be like..

"We're putting the pup in the shelter, she's too rambunctious/sick/disobedient."
"Okay, thanks for letting us know! BYE!"

*shudder*


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## esslevy (Mar 23, 2013)

Hi, I'm new here with a now 14 week old vizsla (Dash) that we got from Golden Meadows in February. We opportunistically opted to get a puppy largely due to the availability from this particular breeder at a time that worked for our family. We're in NorCal, though my husband did visit the breeder and saw both the sire and dam before we picked up the pup. We stumbled upon the controversy about the time we committed to the pup with a $500 deposit. While we are admittedly newbies to vizslas as well as dealings with breeders, we've had only professional interactions with Golden Meadows. We received pedigree data for multiple generations, OFA cents for both parents, vaccine info. My husband used his visit to see if any flags jumped out, and none did, so we went ahead with the purchase and haven't been unhappy with our decision (knock on wood). I can see someone with more experience than us seeing more flags than we caught, and the more I know now may cause me to be more cautious had I known, but in the end I can't say that I'm unsatisfied with our choice.

Sharon


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Sharon welcome to the forum.
I hope you stay with us, and post often.
The puppies health is only part of the equation.
The treatment of his breeding stock is just as important.
The true test of a breeder comes to light when things go wrong.
I wish you and your families new addition nothing but the best.


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## esslevy (Mar 23, 2013)

They're facility is indeed large (I want to say it sits on dozens of acres all told), but 100 dogs seems unlikely. Admittedly, when we picked up our dog, we didn't get a tour of all, but we saw nothing to indicate overcrowding or unsanitary conditions. Ours has seen a vet a couple times since we've had him but we didn't proactively ask for a heart ultrasound. We did ask about the nutrition and supplements in particular and our vet suggested we continue with the kibble, but drop the supplement (by the logic that if the food is complete, there should be no need for further supplementation). As for the contract, it is not verbatim what's been linked but similar, and yes the guarantee is subject to the nutrition. No, I'm less than trilled about that and have some thoughts about its enforceability, but again were new to much of this.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Fact or fiction? I guess I will take a drive down there in the next few weeks and talk and look around. I was invited last year by the owner but never made it down.



> "It is inaccurate tho say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office."


 - H.L Mencken

RBD


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## KB87 (Jan 30, 2012)

Perhaps the think that irked me most when reading the posts from the owner was that in his invitation to RBD he told him "we are available Mon-Sat between 11-4" and also mentioned about employees.

11-4 are business hours. And employees indicate that you are a business. Businesses produce products (as much as the market will allow) and are in it for a profit. To me, puppies aren't products. And my breeder may pocket a few dollars but their end goal shouldn't be to make a profit. Their goal should be to better the breed and provide you with one **** of a dog. I suppose if you have two litters at one time you may need an extra hand to help keep the environment clean and the puppies well kept, but more than an extra hand shouldn't be necessary. The need for employees sounds like there is quite an operation going with MULTIPLE dogs whelping at any given time. This completely sounds like a mill. Mills hide the bulk of their dogs to go unsuspected and with multiple employees they should be able to keep their conditions sanitary. If he's a savvy business man he would have a plan and methodology to only show the areas he would like you to see- the best and most palletable.

Again, I know nothing about this breeder, but if I were considering a puppy from this breeder the unsettled feeling that I have in my stomach from reading this information alone would be enough to turn me away. $2,500 for a puppy? Plus all of the ridiculous standards set forth in the contract? And he breeds more than 1 type of dog? You'd best believe he would see my back side walking away from him.

Esslevy, no doubt you have a great dog. Just please be vigilant about their health and watch for any possible issues cropping up. After getting our pup I decided that our breeder wasn't the best one I could have gotten him from (granted, they're very nice people but some of their practices aren't ideal) and I now know there are more health issues in the line than I was originally told. This doesn't mean I have a "bad" dog- I just have to be careful for his sake. Education, even after the fact, is a powerful thing.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Welcome Sharon, to the best Vizsla forum on the planet. 

We're glad you have a Vizsla and your life will never be the same - it will be more exciting, more frustrating and more filled than imaginable. 
Dash is a great name. Have you posted pics yet? (You may have, I tend not to read but a few posts) If not, let's see your pride and joy!

Ken


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## esslevy (Mar 23, 2013)

Thanks for the welcome, despite starting out here in the midst of some controversy. I've lurked some but haven't posted other than in this thread, so no pics yet. 

But since you asked, here's a picture of Dash in full lap-dog mode.


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## KB87 (Jan 30, 2012)

Dash is beautiful!!

Definitely share puppy pics whenever you get the chance! Most of us on here CRAVE them!


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## Vida (Dec 26, 2011)

He looks like lovely pup 
Breeder must have done something right.
Enjoy your baby,they grow too fast.
X


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Dash is adorable!! I love the name too!! Welcome and thank you for sharing the photo. We do love our puppy photos.

A lot of us didn't get our dog from the best breeder and they are just amazing pups, some are mixes, from shelters, rescues, etc. That being said, I want to change my original opinion to the OP.

I actually read the contract now and there are just so many warning signs in there. They won't refund you money, but will give you another pup (that's not what you want!). Their health agreement is dependent upon you buying supplements (huge warning sign!). We chose to get our pup from a breeder because we wanted a puppy who was healthy, who would have a good chance of a great temperament and who we experience puppyhood with. I would drop the deposit if I were in your shoes. There are so many signs that this breeder does not care about the dogs. If, God forbid, something were wrong with the pup, you want a breeder who will give you your money back and do well by you.

As mentioned earlier, you can get a good V for much less and may not end up paying more. You also may get more support from the breeder and feel safer with your purchase. This is a life long purchase. 

**I highly recommend Ian Dunbar's book, Before you Get your Puppy (available for free by pdf). Once you realize how important early exposure is to a pup's development, you want to make sure the pup is getting it. I imagine someone could run a business with good a sire/dam, make sure there are checklists and each pup is getting the exposure it needs, etc. Most likely, this isn't the case and if it were the guarantee would be a bit better.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Well a big roo roo roo welcome to Dash from all the red and liver furry boys and girls downunder.....  he is a gorgeous looking boy and looks to have you well trained already!!!   

As for the supplement and food clauses in the contract, here in Oz we have a law which bans that sort of clause in any contract. It's called third party reinforcement or something very close to that. It stops companies/businesses or individuals from tying the other party into a third party purchase. Not sure of the laws on this in CA though.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Restraint of trade is what they call that one down under Data.......... I've had a partner try that on me too. In the end, I just "managed" him out of the business over time..................


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