# Bad at generalizing or just not listening?



## Mcunnin4 (Jan 15, 2013)

Question:

Bentley knows all his commands and then some but for some reason I am not sure if hes just not generalizing that the same command applies in different areas or if hes just ignoring me?

I have him sit EVERY single day before I put his harness on to go outside and EVERY single day before he comes inside I make him sit before I open the door and allow him in. But for some reason, when I say it he either turns his head and looks out at the grass or a car passing and I have to push his butt down and pull up on his collar and force him to sit otherwise we literally will wait out there forever and he wont sit. 

Inside, we practice all new tricks and old (for treats) in the living room and this is where I have him sit to put the harness on. Yet, he still will not sit down for me to put the harness on and here I am again getting frustrated I have waited and waited and he will walk away from me yet I know he has to go outside to go potty. But he just wont listen to my sit command! He knows it, I know he knows it because its the first thing we do when I get a treat out the bag he does it without me even saying (again this is all in the living room, same place as where i put the harness on).

Do you think hes just not generalizing well? I have heard that dogs will learn a trick in a certain spot in the house but then take them somewhere else and they look at you like you have two heads because they think the tricks only need to be done where they learned it. Or do you think hes ignoring me? Hes usually very obedient so it REALLY frustrates me that this simple trick (the one hes known the longest at that) isnt being obeyed. 

Should I start over? Back at basics with bringing treats out then slowly withdraw treats?


----------



## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

How old? Sounds like distraction maneuvers (yawn, look away, scratch etc) when you give a command... there way of controlling situation.


----------



## Watson (Sep 17, 2012)

Watson does this as well at times. Sometimes he'll just look at me like "nah don't feel like doing that".

When putting his collar on/taking it off, I require him to stand still, and when he doesn't, I walk away from him. If he wants to go outside, then he has to be compliant, otherwise he gets to wait. 
Same thing when it's time for off-leash fun. He sits and waits for his release otherwise we hang out tied to each other with a 4ft leash (boring for a V). 
Meeting people and other dogs requires him to be sitting down. When he lunges or tries to jump up, we walk away and his chance to say hello is over. Try again next time.

No treats involved in any of these, the reward is going outside, running off-leash, saying hello to someone etc.

Although I'm the one that determines the rules, the decision is ultimately his... and when he follows the rules, he gets what he wants!


----------



## datacan (May 15, 2011)

look into their eyes, if its a blank stare, they need to relearn some part. 

Treats enforced commands tend to last about 50 times before a refresher is in order. 
Whereas physical enforcement (training collar, e-collar) tends to last 200 times before its back to class for some part or other. 

All commands are treat based at the beginning but once it knows the commands, must learn to handle pressure (not too much, just enough, though)... Whereby pressure on is the negative incentive and pressure off is the reward when the dog decides to comply with command.


----------



## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

Dogs do not generalize. Their thinking is not like humans' thinking. Case in point: Your housetrained puppy, very good at home, is not housetrained at your mother-in-law's house!


----------



## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Our boy never marks indoors. So far we went as many places as we could and were legally (sometimes illegally) allowed and he never made a mistake ... even on house plants. If that's not generalization, I don't what is? 

Sadly, I thought I trained him to stay on the sidewalks and never step off, and he does obey, however if beside my wife, different rules apply  ... But we never trained him like that so his thinking is pretty smart, IMO. 

Another example of failed generalization. I house trained the boy pretty and was very successful, I thought, until, at 5 months, I took him to the basement the first time ever. First thing he did was pee on the floor like a champ. After a good play session or two, in the basement, the problem disappeared. I think he must have generalized or added the basement to his understanding of indoors ???


----------



## Capa (May 19, 2013)

Here is a worthwhile article:


http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2003/generalization.htm


----------



## datacan (May 15, 2011)

This topic always intrigued me, and I just fell in love with IOS 7 on the iPhone (inspired by Android and BB QNX 10)... They finally fixed the the edit nightmare. 

Always love to read articles by trainers written as though they are a different breed of human. (From the link provided above) http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2003/generalization.htm

"_Presence of food, clicker, bait bag, and other tools. Tools used for training will ultimately need to be faded from the picture.[/color] *Be creative in your placement of and choice of reinforcers.* Vary the routine you have set up that means “training time.” Condition multiple conditioned reinforcers._" 
Can't she just say negative enforcement and be done with it? Nope, because she uses the clicker "exclusively", LOL... Just leave the dog with her and it will magically learn by the time you return to pick it up 

"_practice the behavior while you are standing, sitting, lying down, kneeling, or doing yoga. Wave your arms around. Stand on one leg. Hop in place._" - I did like this. 



Here's some copy/paste action of my own (oh, so popular, because why not? I love this topic, but any experience may only just confuse things  )
Does not matter, the original has been copy/pasted as well, I think. 

"*Dogs don't generalize well and they are very context specific*. 
That means that they can't make leaps of understanding the way people do. We look at a paper tree and see it as a tree. We look at a real tree and see it as a tree. We see a tree on TV and see it as a tree. These are generalizations. Dog's don't think that way. To your dog they are 3 very different things and they can't all be trees. A dogie example: you teach your dog to sit with a cookie but you always practice in the kitchen. Now you KNOW you have taught your dog sit and you take your dog outside where your husband is and try to get your dog to sit and he looks at you like you have 2 heads! Dog's are very context specific and they don't generalize well! Your dog only recognizes the command sit means SIT when he is in the kitchen. You have to teach your dog sit in 3 to 5 or more locations before your dog realizes that the command "sit" means the same thing EVERYWHERE! Sit in the kitchen is not the same as sit in the yard which is not the same thing as sit at the dog park and so on, this is how your dog thinks."

http://m.wikihow.com/Stop-a-Dog's-Unwanted-Behavior


----------



## Mcunnin4 (Jan 15, 2013)

Thanks for the articles! definitely helpful! As Milesmom said, he definitely has mastered the art of a distraction yawn/scratch/look off into the distance! 

I am going to assume he needs reinforcing and will give that a try


----------

