# Any Issue Mixing Kibble & Raw?



## summervizsla (Nov 7, 2021)

I've recently started my dog on Darwin's raw chicken. After months of trying to fight giardia with antibiotics, high fiber foods, and various other holistic approaches, I finally felt like I had to try a raw diet. It's been barely over a week but I do think I'm starting to see a change in the firmness of his stool. I'm so relieved and optimistic, I could cry! Haha. 

He's doing extremely well mixing his kibble with the raw food but I wanted to ask the Vizsla community if you have any concerns about doing this. I've seen a few articles about how doing this isn't recommended, but in other places, people say there's absolutely no need for concern. Thoughts?

Thanks in advance!


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

I definitely used to buy into the line of reasoning that they digest at different rates or that kibble will raise the pH of the stomach making potential pathogens in raw a greater concern, but to my knowledge there are no studies that show this. To be fair my change in opinion isn't based on studies either, but after 6 years of feeding my dog a raw diet, I started adding kibble when it was more convenient for the situation (travel, backpacking), because of scarcity issues earlier in the pandemic, or along with raw to lower the cost. And it's been fine. My dog has an intolerance to chicken along with other special dietary needs which makes finding an appropriate kibble difficult, otherwise I'd probably use it more. 

If it's working for your dog it makes sense to me to continue.


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## Dan_A (Jan 19, 2021)

Giardia should quite easily succumb to metronidazole. Are you sure something else isn’t going on like a food allergy?


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## summervizsla (Nov 7, 2021)

Dan_A said:


> Giardia should quite easily succumb to metronidazole. Are you sure something else isn’t going on like a food allergy?


We have gone to multiple vets and done multiple rounds of metronidazole, and it has not been resolved.


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## summervizsla (Nov 7, 2021)

einspänner said:


> I definitely used to buy into the line of reasoning that they digest at different rates or that kibble will raise the pH of the stomach making potential pathogens in raw a greater concern, but to my knowledge there are no studies that show this. To be fair my change in opinion isn't based on studies either, but after 6 years of feeding my dog a raw diet, I started adding kibble when it was more convenient for the situation (travel, backpacking), because of scarcity issues earlier in the pandemic, or along with raw to lower the cost. And it's been fine. My dog has an intolerance to chicken along with other special dietary needs which makes finding an appropriate kibble difficult, otherwise I'd probably use it more.
> 
> If it's working for your dog it makes sense to me to continue.


Thank you for your input! If it wasn't so expensive I'd like to go 100% raw, but if he's doing well mixing and there are no health issues I would like to continue combining them.


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## Dan_A (Jan 19, 2021)

summervizsla said:


> We have gone to multiple vets and done multiple rounds of metronidazole, and it has not been resolved.


If metro didn’t work did they suggest different treatments? There are plenty like fenben , fenben/praz/pyran, and all else fails nitazoxanide. I would first verify he is shedding cysts before any other medical treatment. I’m all for proper diet and nutrition but I fail to see how changing diet could cure a stubborn active infection. If he was cured of giardiasis , he could be dealing with lingering effects like IBS. In this case a diet change could certainly help the body get back on track.


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## Gabica (Jan 20, 2018)

since i switched to raw i never looked back to kibble... in fact i had a bag of emergency kibble (Orijen) which i recently donated to a local shelter to avoid shelf life expiry. for travels i have an igloo travel cooler which attaches to car cigar light outlet, just as 120 V, so it is very convenient. I keep several packs of freeze dried food at home in case of emergency.
Cost wise i am at the same level as i was at with the kibble, if not better as i need far less supplements to keep weight on them. not sure where y`all live, i source mine from texastripe (not trying to advertise), their prices and quality have been awesome.


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

summervizsla said:


> Thank you for your input! If it wasn't so expensive I'd like to go 100% raw, but if he's doing well mixing and there are no health issues I would like to continue combining them.


Darwin's in particular is very expensive. I know the vet behind it is based in Chicago. Are you also? If so, I've started using a new supplier in the area, Rawsome Pets, and could recommend them.


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## rsarvis (Nov 16, 2021)

Can one feed them regular raw stuff from grocery store every now and then? Or does it need to be from special suppliers for whatever reason?


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## Gabica (Jan 20, 2018)

rsarvis said:


> Can one feed them regular raw stuff from grocery store every now and then? Or does it need to be from special suppliers for whatever reason?


mostly not recommended. some of those grocery shop items have not been prepared to be dog safe (i.e. not frozen long enough to kill certain germs or treated with chemicals which are not safe for dogs). i use grocery shop untreated beef heart for dehydration, just as chicken paws for dehydration, but would not feed those as is in a raw format, i even freeze the beef heart for a month or so before using it for dehydration. the chicken paws come previously frozen so those i use for dehydration immediately)


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## Bob Engelhardt (Feb 14, 2012)

rsarvis said:


> Can one feed them regular raw stuff from grocery store every now and then? Or does it need to be from special suppliers for whatever reason?


In general, supermarket meat is safe for humans because it is always cooked first, killing whatever pathogens might be present. Feeding that meat raw exposes the dog to those pathogens. Poultry is probably the worst in this respect.


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## rsarvis (Nov 16, 2021)

Bob Engelhardt said:


> In general, supermarket meat is safe for humans because it is always cooked first, killing whatever pathogens might be present. Feeding that meat raw exposes the dog to those pathogens. Poultry is probably the worst in this respect.


Same with meats from a local butcher?


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## Bob Engelhardt (Feb 14, 2012)

rsarvis said:


> Same with meats from a local butcher?


I couldn't say ... there is such a large variety of "local butcher".


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## summervizsla (Nov 7, 2021)

einspänner said:


> Darwin's in particular is very expensive. I know the vet behind it is based in Chicago. Are you also? If so, I've started using a new supplier in the area, Rawsome Pets, and could recommend them.


We're based out of Indianapolis, so unfortunately Rawsome won't work for us. I don't have the knowledge myself at this point in time to buy the right meats/ingredients so as to make sure he wouldn't be lacking in nutrients. Do you have a preferred/recommended brand you like that delivers nationwide?


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## summervizsla (Nov 7, 2021)

Dan_A said:


> If metro didn’t work did they suggest different treatments? There are plenty like fenben , fenben/praz/pyran, and all else fails nitazoxanide. I would first verify he is shedding cysts before any other medical treatment. I’m all for proper diet and nutrition but I fail to see how changing diet could cure a stubborn active infection. If he was cured of giardiasis , he could be dealing with lingering effects like IBS. In this case a diet change could certainly help the body get back on track.


I appreciate this! I'll definitely talk with my vet(s) about other treatments. He's had seizures as a result of medications in the past, so I'm careful about trying a bunch of different meds. He is definitely not yet cured of giardia. I've paid a lot of money getting him tested after the meds, and I'm very diligent about picking up his stool. It's beyond frustrating, honestly. One vet suggested trying raw to help his gut health as a starting point, hence my question. I don't imagine this will resolve all the issues, just trying to strengthen his gut.


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## summervizsla (Nov 7, 2021)

Gabica said:


> since i switched to raw i never looked back to kibble... in fact i had a bag of emergency kibble (Orijen) which i recently donated to a local shelter to avoid shelf life expiry. for travels i have an igloo travel cooler which attaches to car cigar light outlet, just as 120 V, so it is very convenient. I keep several packs of freeze dried food at home in case of emergency.
> Cost wise i am at the same level as i was at with the kibble, if not better as i need far less supplements to keep weight on them. not sure where y`all live, i source mine from texastripe (not trying to advertise), their prices and quality have been awesome.


We are located in Indianapolis. I wish Texastripe would work for us! Do you have another recommended company that would deliver to our area/nationwide?


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## Gabica (Jan 20, 2018)

summervizsla said:


> We are located in Indianapolis. I wish Texastripe would work for us! Do you have another recommended company that would deliver to our area/nationwide?


mypetcarnivore.com
they are located in Indianapolis and are top notch, but also priced higher than texastripe. great selection of items and easy to maintain packaging, my recommendation is adding green tripe for gutt issues. 

also if you go to the texastripe website they have out of state recommendations. i have clicked on the Colorado one and they state they deliver to all L48 states. i don`t like to buy frozen food with veggies mixed in, i prefer adding veggies and fruits myself, some of their items seem to be an all in mix, but they have some of the same items as texastripe does, a bit higher priced than texastripe but not as high as mypecarnivore, although when you add shipping you may be around the same, you need to research it a bit more. hope this helps and your pup can back to good GI.


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

summervizsla said:


> We're based out of Indianapolis, so unfortunately Rawsome won't work for us. I don't have the knowledge myself at this point in time to buy the right meats/ingredients so as to make sure he wouldn't be lacking in nutrients. Do you have a preferred/recommended brand you like that delivers nationwide?


 You have some good options available to you in Indiana. The premade food I get from my supplier is actually based in Fort Wayne– Albright's Naturals. I pay $6.89 for 2lbs of turkey vs $14.76 or $11.77 for the same of Darwins. 

There's also My Pet Carnivore headquartered right in Indianapolis. I've used them in the past when they delivered to IL. They follow the prey model feeding style, so if feeding fruits and vegetables is important to than you'd have to add them. 

And lastly, I haven't tried these guys, but Farm-2-Bowl is based in IL and offers fedex shipping out of state. You'd have to figure out whether the shipping costs would make it a good deal for you or not, but again their base price is lower than Darwins and is also formulated with the help of a vet. I've looked into them more for their main business which is farm products and meat shipped to your door.


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## summervizsla (Nov 7, 2021)

einspänner said:


> You have some good options available to you in Indiana. The premade food I get from my supplier is actually based in Fort Wayne– Albright's Naturals. I pay $6.89 for 2lbs of turkey vs $14.76 or $11.77 for the same of Darwins.
> 
> There's also My Pet Carnivore headquartered right in Indianapolis. I've used them in the past when they delivered to IL. They follow the prey model feeding style, so if feeding fruits and vegetables is important to than you'd have to add them.
> 
> And lastly, I haven't tried these guys, but Farm-2-Bowl is based in IL and offers fedex shipping out of state. You'd have to figure out whether the shipping costs would make it a good deal for you or not, but again their base price is lower than Darwins and is also formulated with the help of a vet. I've looked into them more for their main business which is farm products and meat shipped to your door.


Thank you so much! I will absolutely look into all of these.


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## summervizsla (Nov 7, 2021)

Gabica said:


> mypetcarnivore.com
> they are located in Indianapolis and are top notch, but also priced higher than texastripe. great selection of items and easy to maintain packaging, my recommendation is adding green tripe for gutt issues.
> 
> also if you go to the texastripe website they have out of state recommendations. i have clicked on the Colorado one and they state they deliver to all L48 states. i don`t like to buy frozen food with veggies mixed in, i prefer adding veggies and fruits myself, some of their items seem to be an all in mix, but they have some of the same items as texastripe does, a bit higher priced than texastripe but not as high as mypecarnivore, although when you add shipping you may be around the same, you need to research it a bit more. hope this helps and your pup can back to good GI.


Thank you! I will do some research and choose what works best for us


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## Dan_A (Jan 19, 2021)

Best of luck with the nutrition! Raw or otherwise, I would also suggest adding a quality probiotic. I can't say enough good things about ProBios. I've used their dog treat and "multi species" powder products. Really does wonders in keeping things moving properly and of course the well known benefits of proper gut flora.


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