# She might just be a Vizsla



## molecule (Jan 21, 2017)

Hi!
My husband and I recently found a roughly year old stray dog that was very hungry and "run down" looking, wandering around a mobile home settlement in southern Georgia. When we asked around, no one claimed it as their dog and we didn't have the heart to leave the poor thing outside in the cold, so we took her home.
I am a graduate student and my husband works maintenance in the apartment complex where we reside (a 2 bedroom apartment). We are generally gone 8 hours a day during the week, with a one hour lunch break at home. Several people we know have dogs under these circumstances and have no issues with it, so we figured we could adopt one as well. We knew 4 walks a day would be possible for us (morning, lunch, after work, before bed) and were determined to keep the times regular for housebreaking purposes. 
It was a rash decision, for sure, but we did not want to relinquish her to a shelter because they only have kill shelters in the area, with a high kill rate.

So... sounds lovely right? Well, it became very obvious quite quickly that a crate was needed. She tore up everything in sight and pooped in the house and refused to hold her bladder, even if she had just been outside. With crate training, we managed to get her to the point where she "mostly" holds it while we are supervising her, but the moment we leave her alone, she will poop in front of the door. Not always, but it happens. 
Did I mention that she chews on everything? Even door frames? Ultimately, this has resulted in banishment to the crate during all times when we are out of the house for more than a few minutes. Banishment is perhaps a hard word - we have tried to associate the crate with toys and snacks and play with her while she is in it. However, we have had to remove any blankets etc. due to the fact that she immediately starts tearing into anything left inside. She cries the moment we leave the house and it took quite some time for her to stop "generally whining" while in the crate. To be honest, I cannot be sure how much she cries while we are gone, since the neighbors haven't complained. Barking is thankfully rare.
While she has shown improvements, it has been four months and we still cannot leave her in the apartment unsupervised without her crate. The moment we do, she destroys things.

I tried to research this and stumbled upon Vizslas when I noticed a physical similarity while Google imaging her photograph. I had always thought she was a mixed breed of some undistinguishable nature, but her appearance does highly resemble that of a Vizsla, making me wonder if she is not mostly Vizsla. That is when I saw all of the characteristics and requirements....... and I was shocked.

There are actual warnings and caveats associated with getting a Vizsla. Basically, the description of A VIZSLA MIGHT NOT BE FOR YOU, fit us to a T. It became painfully obvious to me that we could never accommodate the high energy demands. At all. We don't have ATVs, a huge property (or even a yard), don't hunt and are generally pretty busy during the week when we get home from work. I have to do a lot of reading, have a pretty sedentary lifestyle and my form of exercise is in the form of longer walks and Daily Burn strengthening videos. Neither one of us is very rompy or super energized and while we enjoy the outdoors, you won't find either of us running through the forest. Walking, yes. Running, no. Knees, joints... even though we are young, we already have injuries that prevent us from bouncing off the walls. 
We have tried taking her out to visit friends with larger properties, but she vomits in the car and cries when we leave her in a fenced yard to play. When we let her off leash in open areas, she tends to disappear and we end up walking around everywhere trying to find her.

We don't mind the Velcro thing, the cuddles etc. and would gladly let her sleep in the bed, if it wasn't for the fact that she doesn't stay there. Without fail, she will get up and, being unsupervised, will find something to destroy or poop on.

:-\ We know that if she is a Vizsla, it is probably the lack of exercise that is causing her "bad" behavior. She is a really good dog otherwise, very friendly and sweet, even if she does pull on the leash and acts like an overgrown puppy. Distracted, distracted. Yes, that would be her.
The question is - well.... what can we do? We can't turn into people we are not. We don't have the money for ATVs or day care or anything like that. We figured taking her in was the best option at the time. We don't want to give her up, but we don't want to mentally and physically destroy her either. 
I have attached a photo. If she is NOT a Vizsla, then we can at least rest assured that time will mellow her out. We are certainly patient and willing to put in the training effort. 
If she is a Vizsla, we are in trouble. Any advice appropriate to our situation would be appreciated. Please do not tell us to start running, rollerblading or tying her to a bike. I know such comments often have the best intent, but they are unrealistic and impossible to realize. We don't know how to rollerblade and my mother once broke her arm when a dog jerked her off while riding a bicycle. That would be us as well. We aren't those other, super active, well coordinated types of people.

I know it was probably stupid to just take in a stray dog off the street. But our heart was in the right place. We just wanted her to be safe and get her inside. It wasn't a situation where you could research and look into things before deciding. We weren't being entirely irresponsible while being irresponsible, if that makes any sense.

What do you guys think?


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Bless your heart for taking her in, and not taking her to a shelter when times got tough. 
Have you had a vet scan her to see if she's chipped? In her picture she looks vizsla, but even with pictures it can be hard to tell. Do you have a close up picture of her tail. I foster vizsla mixes, and they can look purebred in pictures. But seeing them in person, I can tell the difference. 
I can tell you a good many vizsla owners don't run marathons, or own UTVs. We walk while the dogs run off leash. The main thing we teach is reliable recall. That way the dogs get to burn off energy. Even if you had a big fenced yard, they want you to be outside with them.
I guess the main questions are do you feel you can provide her a good home? Are you willing to train her, so she can be off leash? Is she vizsla, or part vizsla? If she is, do you want help from a breed rescue?

I can find out who is the rescue coordinator in your area, if you would like me to.


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## 1stVizsla (Jun 22, 2016)

I think she's a beauty; she looks very much like my vizsla! Don't be put off by what you read about the "hig-energy" demands of these dogs. Although I was looking for a high-energy dog I've been amazed by how NOT high-energy my now 9mo pup has been. It DOES take time but they can go alone all day in house with no problems. 

I think you would be fine if you can find a park, school playground or wooded trails where you can let her run off-leash (make sure she "Comes" on command first), you can throw a ball for her etc. If we miss a day our dog has much more energy the next but is generally Ok; having these dogs is a great boon to one's own health. I've never seen anyone but C. Milan rollerblading his dogs.

My suggestion for chewing is you try these things called "Best Bully-sticks". I buy them on Amazon and give her 1-2 a day (there are braided, bites, sticks, etc). They satisfy my V and she has NEVER chewed a shoe or anything in our house (I wish I could say same for the German Shepard we got with her, he is MUCH more hyper). 

Good luck and don't give up. She looks like a Lover (like mine) and they mellow out tremendously with age! Agree it's the correct thing to do to see if she is chipped,etc. as these dogs are generally extremely well-loved by owners; it is the first thing I'd do. Great you've made such a nice home for her


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## molecule (Jan 21, 2017)

Hi!
Yes, we had her checked out and she is not chipped.
Thank you so much, both of you, for responding! I have (tried to) attach a photo of her tail. I hope it worked. 
If she is a Vizsla, I do not know if I can provide her with the kind of home she needs. Those internet sites scared me a lot. We live in a very street laden area and there isn't much in the way of roaming space for her to run off leash. She is also very curious about everything, including cars, which always makes me nervous while leading her on a retractable leash. I would be willing to try to get her to listen off leash, although it would be tricky in such an urban setting. If it is purely a question of that, I would say yes. If you can guide me to resources for that, I would be very grateful!
I will also get her a Bully Stick! The fact that you, 1stVizsla, can leave your dog unattended for that long gives me hope. Although my dog is older than yours, she was a stray and I have no idea how long she was out on the streets. So she might be a little more complicated with her adjustment.

The things that scare me, for example, are sites that state Vizsla's require over 2 hours of vigorous running off leash. I rarely walk more than 30 minutes, I don't have 2 hours of time to walk in the evenings when I get home. Usually she gets a 30 minute walk before bedtime and the other sessions are more "around the block" for potty needs. My husband is usually dead tired from work (manual labor which causes a lot of his aches and pains) when he gets home and my schedule is not exactly reliable, as I do research in a lab. We can cover the 4 shifts of potty and walk as we do at the moment, but nothing more extensive. These sites suggest that anything less than 2 hours of full out dog running and the Vizsla will destroy everything and become extremely unhappy!

If she is a Vizsla and this is really untrue and shorter walks off leash will do the trick, then all should be okay once recall is trained. That would be fine!

If, however, this lifestyle will cause her to become disturbed, bored and unhealthy, it is probably best for her to find a home better suited to her needs now, before she gets older and the damage has been done. If you think it is necessary, then yes, perhaps contact with a rescue is in order. I would prefer this be a last resort, but I am also very realistic and know that I cannot turn into the type of Vizsla owner described by the frightening resources I have found online. I have seen people in denial about their dog's needs before and what it can do to a dog's health. That kind of thing was not what I planned for this poor innocent animal.
What you guys are saying, however, makes me hopeful that we may not need to. Right now she is lying pressed up against my lower back, all cuddled and warm.... moments like these make it hard to imagine having to give her up.

If she is not a Vizsla, then these "Vizsla like" tendencies should wear off with age. If that is the case, I guess she is still very young and needs some time to adjust and calm down. We are perfectly okay with that, as long as we know that she won't suffer from our type of lifestyle. We can definitely wait it out in the case of another breed.

Thank you so much for everything! I am so glad we have somewhere to turn to.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I was trying to see just how short and smooth her coat is. Most of the time a thicker coat is easier to see on the tail in pictures. The picture is to blurry for me to tell.
Not all vizslas need two hours of exercise a day, although some are more geared towards it. It runs the gambit on how much exercise a individual vizsla needs. Some 30 minutes every other day works, and other need tons daily.
I'm going to send you a private message, to see if I can find someone close to you to help you with her. Teaching recall can be very easy, or very frustrating. Having some one on one help can make a big difference.


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## Rbka (Apr 21, 2014)

Hi molecule! Her face certainly looks very v-like. Maybe some am-staff or lab in there? All very smart breeds! Here are a couple things I can think of....

1. your pooch is kind of a teenager at ~1 year old (for a medium size breed they say 1 year is equivalent to a 14 year olod human). Teenagers of any species test their limits and act like jerks! I have heard of many other dogs chewing base-boards and door-frames (labs, goldens, poodles, etc) around this age too. Nico was crated when we were out until he was 4 months old then he was so well behaved he didn't have to be crated anymore! Until he turned 1 and started pushing the boundaries and destroying stuff haha. Back into the crate! At around 1.5 years we were able to stop crating him again as he outgrew the nasty teenager phase.

2. Is she smart? Intellectual exercise is SO important for dogs! A walk on leash won't tire out her brain  Consider signing up for an obedience class or do some positive training at home. Dogs LOVE to please their owners and to get treats so look up how to teach different commands and practice daily - this is bonding time and brain exercise all in one! For some ideas - Nico knows sit, stay, lie down, roll over, beg, shake (other paw), go round (other way round), up-up, give me your face, get your toy, get your bone, go get your kong, go to your crate, go to your bed, go to your bench... as he learns we just think up other stuff to teach him. Now we're trying "give me a kiss" lol.

Another brain game I play is to use silicone muffin cups and hide kibbles under a couple of them and Nico has to wait out of the room then come in and sniff out which muffin cups have the food under them. Then once he's found them all I make him wait out of sight, hide more under the cups, and begin again. Hide-and-sniff.
*edit* frozen kongs with peanut butter and kibbles as well as other chewing games (like bully sticks) could be good brain exercise too! Buy the bully sticks in bulk tho - they don't last long! And avoid raw-hide, it is very toxic :-\

3. I think off leash is key. Walking endlessly at your pace just won't tire out a dog - even human running speed is a mere "trot" for a dog. They need to have the option to sprint sometimes (we call it "monster-trucking" haha!) Are there any off-leash dog parks your could go to? The nice thing about this is that if you're tired you can often just hang out and sit on your butt while your dog absolutely tuckers themself out.

I hope you can find a good balance of things so you can keep your pooch and your sanity! All the best


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

I am a first time vizsla owner. My husband and I were in a car accident when we went to see our puppy for the first time. We managed our home, our jobs and our little puppy as well as having to be in physiotherapy 2 times a week. We survived. Dharma is fairly mellow and you adapt to what you can do for her and she for you. They are wonderful companions. Dharma still goes in her crate when we are not home. She just gets used to it. You are doing this dog a great service by taking her off of the streets and giving her a home. Don't get so discouraged -like others have said she is a "teenager". You are still just adjusting to a new routine and each other.


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## hecallsmebama (Mar 31, 2016)

I wish you success! The suggestions above are wonderful...especially the mental exercise idea. That saved me earlier own and still does on rainy days!

If you do decide your girl needs to be rehomed, I know for a fact there is a vizsla rescue in GA. I'm up in the Atlanta area and my neighbor three doors down is on the foster list. She already has a V and a WHV. If TR can't track down the info, I could text my neighbor and pass it along to you.

She does look very V to me. Best of luck!


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## molecule (Jan 21, 2017)

Hi!
Just wanted to let you all know that I was out of WIFI reach due to storms and location on the weekend. We were at a campsite on the Suwannee River (yes, with dog!) and I will read your messages here (and in my inbox) and post replies when I get off of work today.
Thank you so much for all of your efforts!


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## molecule (Jan 21, 2017)

Hi!
Sorry that I have been in hiatus for so long. I really appreciate your insight and help and did not mean to just disappear.
Since I last posted, not much has changed, except that she listens a bit more... occasionally. Lol. She is still not capable of being left alone during the day without her crate, which is unfortunate. Each trial in that direction has resulted in destruction of property. 
As far as the walking off leash goes - I checked into it and the bylaws don't allow it. There is a fine if I just take her out and start letting her run on the road. Even the apartment complex I live at imposes fines for off leash dog activity and there is no dog park nearby. The only opportunity she has to run around is on the weekends - IF - I don't have to work in the lab that day and can drive somewhere. We only have one car, so if I have to work, my husband is stuck with the dog at home.
Sadly, this aspect is not bound to change anytime soon. Not until I graduate, get a job and buy a house with some property. lol.
There has been one other development that we aren't entirely sure of - my husband has developed quite severe coughing, itchy throat and wheezing during the last few months. Now, I did not assume there was any connection to the dog, since she was short haired and doesn't visibly shed.
Silly me. 
Of course she sheds and has dander. And we have carpet. Do you think this could be alleviated by moving into an apartment with linoleum flooring? Does any of you have experience with that?


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

Do you own a bike? I know you had mentioned your mom broke her arm once biking with dogs, but I have this bike attachment  which I no longer use. Works great, I just decided to go with a different set up. You're welcome to it for the cost of shipping from Louisiana. Shoot me a PM if you're interested. 

As for allergies and shedding a good strategy to try would be to vacuum any carpet and upholstery daily and to brush her, outside, a few time a week. Rubber curry brushes are supposed to work great with the short coats. 

Free dogs add up quickly, don't they?


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## molecule (Jan 21, 2017)

Hi!
No I do not have a bike, nor have I ever done a lot of biking. I am quite the couch potato! I don't think my husband has owned a bike in recent memory either. Both of us pretty much come home from work and just want to unwind playing video games, reading or watching Netflix. Thanks for the offer, but I can't see myself getting home late in the evening and still riding around on a bike long enough to satisfy a dog, not to mention the risk her behavior posts for my stability. I'm very uncoordinated.
I'm sorry if that sounds selfish, but I have to be honest. That kind of lifestyle has never been me - I am a nerdy bookworm who doesn't enjoy things like that in the slightest. I don't mind walking, but that is pretty much the limit of what I do after work. When I took in the dog, I was assuming she would be like my parent's dog and be satisfied with a few walks. 
We are going to move into a linoleum floor apartment soon - my husband gets a discount due to his employment and we were able to secure a place without carpet. We are hoping this will solve the allergy issue. I will definitely start brushing her outside and avoid any rugs or materials that can accumulate allergens. I guess wet wiping the floor daily with a Swiffer will help and keeping her out of the bedroom too.
Oh indeed. Free dogs do add up quickly. Lol. I mean, some of it we expected. But we didn't figure a dog this age would be so needy. I have had dogs before and they generally calm down around this time, especially with the destruction. Getting toys was always the solution in the past - but in this case, we leave the room and come back to find anything unsecured completely demolished. I can't trust her at all in some parts of the apartment where some of my more adored items are openly stored.


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

I have absolutely no carpets anywhere in my house except for the front door where we have a mat for wet boots and umbrellas and Dharma's wet feet. Being injured does not allow for very easy vacuuming-
I agree, the last thing you want to do after work is clean up or go for a major hike.
Your dog is still young, I was told that vizslas do not settle down until they are 4. Or at least they take longer than other dogs do. In the case of the crate, I still put Dharma in her crate at 4 years old for a number of reasons. Some of these reasons are that we feel safer with her contained. My family does not pick up after themselves very well. When she goes to the breeder to be looked after, the crate is a requirement. And of course...... Dharma is very smart and can open the cupboards in the kitchen and other stuff may get destroyed by a lonely Dharma missing her people.............


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## molecule (Jan 21, 2017)

This sounds like it will be the case with our Lily (that is her name) too. The carpets simply have to go, so I look forward to moving in two weeks. 
Yes, Lily is the same - she opens cupboards, the doggy gate, finds anything and everything to chew on, including door frames. Leaving her alone without crate is basically the same as inviting a tiny tornado into the apartment. I finally gave up when I saw her chewing on my childhood stuffed animal, even though it was in a place I thought was off limits to her!
Your story about Dharma gives me so much hope. I had hoped to ween her off the crate, but if Dharma is still in it at 4, I guess I might as well prepare myself for that eventuality. Destruction is not a casualty I can afford. But at least Dharma is healthy and happy - that means Lily can be too, even without these copious amounts of recommended exercise.
Couch potato life will grow on her. lol


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## Rbka (Apr 21, 2014)

molecule said:


> Couch potato life will grow on her. lol


or perhaps she will influence on you in the other direction 

I would still recommend trying some off leash time with her for her well-being and it may settle her for a couple of days (which is what I find with my guy). Keeping these dogs on leash all the time is like keeping a butterfly in a jar. Also - see my recommendations above for some mental stimulation ideas. A tired dog is a happy dog is a good dog. Good luck, molecule!


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## molecule (Jan 21, 2017)

Rbka said:


> molecule said:
> 
> 
> > Couch potato life will grow on her. lol
> ...


I am definitely open to any mental stimulation suggestions. Anything that involves play or training in the apartment or during her walks is very welcome. I realize that she is not going to be happy with her leash walks, but I will make an effort to take her out to the country on the weekends when we can - there is one property that is relatively large, so she can run freely around that area. 
During the week, it's just not going to happen, not with dog parks being half way across town. I know everyone here is very into the Vizsla "lifetstyle", but when I saw some of the descriptions online of exercise requirements, I felt sheer HORROR. Not mild surprise or "oh well, maybe I'll have to change a little"... no. HORROR. The kind of OMG what am I going to do, I am going to end up torturing my dog and I can't help it because otherwise I will be torturing myself kind of horror. There exists not even the slightest touch of an inclination to turn into the Vizsla kind of person. I get home, I'm tired, I want to read, read, read, compose my music, write my stories (lol) and chill with my husband, and yes play and cuddle with the dog while I do these things - NOT drive half way across town to hang out in a park watching a dog run for 2 hours. My brain would "short circuit" - I devote my whole day to my work and my studies and when I leave, it's me and hubby time. Short walks, yes, good for fresh air, gets some oxygen into the brain, but anything longer and drawn out that eats up the whole evening? Not mentally willing to do that, not to mention physically. I am really not even remotely athletic and find too much physical activity to be utterly annoying. That is why I do Daily Burn. I don't have to leave the house and it is mostly under 30 minutes. Any more than that and I feel terrible.
I think I stress these things over and over here in this thread to see if I still get replies that tell me "yes, it will be okay, despite all that." You guys need to know the utter harsh reality of the situation. No half truths or pretenses. I can provide love and cuddles and little walks, but I am not a regular "Vizsla owner". Well, technically I am, but I behave like a regular "dog" owner, the kind that just hangs out with their dog doing low key stuff. I've had dogs before and that is what life was like. Dog walks, sleeping dog and dog cuddles.
So far, I've gotten plenty of positive feedback from everyone here. Especially Dharma's story makes me feel like I can do this. Tips on mental stimulation are very useful, since that is the kind of extra exercise I can definitely provide her with. If I can come to you guys for tips on stuff like that, it would be very much appreciated. I don't feel so alone anymore!


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## molecule (Jan 21, 2017)

UPDATE:

Lily just got her first bath in preparation for her flea treatments. She was very, very good. Waited patiently in the tub until all the washing and drying was done. Wow. I am impressed. She is now very proud of herself and feels quite spunky with a new clean coat. Lol.


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## jean (Feb 17, 2015)

For mental exercise, a training class would be useful if you are willing - they train you how to train your dog. My local human society has affordable classes. If not, you can use youtube and google, and teach her new commands on your own.

An easy mental exercise game to teach her is "find it" - hide a treat for her to sniff out. Start by making it very easy (in sight), and make it harder gradually. Once she knows the game, this would be a fun way to give her that bully stick someone mentioned. My guy LOVES this.

Things to chew on are good. I buy 12" bully stick packs at Costco and use a hedge clippers to cut them in 1/2 (or thirds if I'm feeling cheap). Antlers are popular here.

Get a Kong or (my preference) a ZogoFlex Tux. Soak some kibble, put it inside, and freeze. Mix in peanut butter first if you are nice. This will keep her busy for 20 minutes, at least. (Probably don't freeze it the first time - she may not understand what to do with hit.) They are slobbery / messy, so give them on a dog bed or something else washable. You could also give these to her crate when you leave her. The licking helps calm them, and she'll have something to do for a bit.

Is she still in her crate without any bedding during the day? I understand doing that for her safety if she is destructive, but she's unlikely to ever be comfortable without a soft place to lay. On the weekend when you can supervise, experiment with crate training using durable bedding for short periods. 

I have to put in one last encouragement to get her to a dog park once during the week (e.g. on Wednesdays) if at ALL possible, especially at this age. I've also seen people use nearby (empty) baseball fields / school grounds for fetch / frisbee. Most do not allow off leash dogs, but it often isn't enforced. Or if you have 2 humans you can stand far apart and take turns calling her to come. That's a good game for practicing recall and easy for humans! The 2+ hrs of exercise every day may be exaggerated (though most would thrive with that) - but they are still very active dogs. If you can set a bar you can achieve that includes some way to get off leash during the week, she would benefit from that.

Good luck!


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## Hank Holt (Apr 1, 2016)

All dogs thrive off of exercise. 
Training and brain games are great for stimulation but nothing can replace the desire for a dog to RUN. 

I'll be honest - You sound like a very reasonable, realistic and kind person who is great for Lily in terms of love and cuddles not to mention taking her in off the streets and saving her life. However, from your posts and emphasis on being "a couch potato" and by finding "sheer horror" in regular healthy activity it sounds like you are not a good fit to be a Vizsla owner or a owner of any young dog for that matter. If you and your husband would like to have a dog in your life it sounds like the best fit would be a senior dog with low exercise needs, like a walk around the block. 

A dog is a domesticated animal but they are still an animal. In terms of their mental, emotional and behaviour needs - no amount of cuddles will ever compare to a dog freely exploring nature (safely and obeying their owners, of course). 

Regardless, you're the one who has to look into her eyes every day and feel content with what you can and can't provide her.


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## molecule (Jan 21, 2017)

I LOVE the idea of "find it" and the peanut butter kong thing I remember from our family dog. Thanks for reminding me of that. I can't afford training classes, but I am very capable of youtubing some tips - I have already started looking. I generally try to train her in her crate (sit and lie with treats) and make her follow commands when I take her for her potty walks. I have noticed some amazing improvements even recently - for example, she now no longer charges up or down the stairs and waits for me to catch up to her first. She is also learning to walk alongside me instead of haphazardly in every direction (leading to a very tangled leash). The part about keeping her focus is still a struggle, but she is no longer jerking and walking ME as much as she used to. She also willingly goes into her crate these days. 
I do not have bedding in her crate when she is unsupervised since she tears it to shreds. I heard that this can cause serious medical emergencies if she starts swallowing it, so I removed it. I can try to put some in this weekend and see how she responds to it, but she behaves differently when we are around. For example - she never chews furniture or pillows when we are there, but the moment we leave.....
She knows it is "bad". But she has a tendency to do bad things once we are out of the room. I have caught her doing stuff like eating the cat's food, stealing things from the table etc. many times the moment I leave to go to the bathroom. She will have this guilty look on her face and give herself away if I don't catch her in the act.
Bottom line .... I don't trust her. I don't trust her to not chew her bedding just because she doesn't do it when I am there.
What do you think? I don't know how to solve this problem. She is very sneaky and willful. 

I agree with you Hank, that I am not a suitable Vizsla owner. I am probably not an optimal dog owner either. If I hadn't found Lily, I openly admit that I wouldn't have gone out and bought myself a dog or adopted one from a shelter, especially not a young dog. This situation came upon me quite suddenly, but since I have had family dogs (backyard though) and know people who are similarly inclined (couch potatoes) with dogs, I figured it was doable and better than leaving her on the streets. The fact that she turned out to be pretty much the exact kind of dog I am not suited to own..... :/ Life does that to you sometimes. That's why I came here - I wanted to know if I should even consider keeping her, or try placing her in a rescue instead.
So far, most people have suggested keeping her, which is something I am prepared to do. Do you disagree with this? I really need blunt honesty from as many qualified people as I can get.
I have been told that getting her placed in a forever home would be hard and that it is better she stay with me than go to a rescue, regardless of my lifestyle. In any case, I would not want her to end up homeless again or in a shelter. Personally, I think there are worse fates than being stuck with a couple of couch potatoes and those two options are it.
But I didn't come here because I knew what I was doing or had any answers. You guys know these dogs, I don't. So I appreciate your candidness.


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## Hank Holt (Apr 1, 2016)

I think you provided Lily with a second chance at life which is a wonderful gift to give a deserving dog. 
It sounds like you're already having successes with her which is great and reassuring. Remember you don't know her background or where she's come from...she's also learning what it is/means to be a part of a human family (manners, expectations etc). Our trainer gave us the best one-liner advice...'if the dog isn't performing how you want don't question the dog, question the trainer'. We are asking them to conform to our life but we have to teach them how to do it. Dogs aren't born with innate knowledge of what can and can't be touched, eaten, sat on etc. Positively reinforcing what you want will get you farther than negatively reinforcing what you don't want. One trick our trainer told us when a dog jumps up at you don't say OFF say SIT. The desired behaviour is to sit not to get off once getting up. If that makes sense. Others may disagree with this philosophy. 

I'm not going to say do this or do that but if you feel like you are unable to provide Lily with what she needs or if she's going to be a hindrance rather than a boon maybe rehoming Lily is the best option. It sounds like HeCallsMeBama (see previous posts) has some connections in GA. 
Maybe a viable option is keeping her for the interim and do your best to provide her with a good life while you actively seek the perfect forever home for her. 

Obviously and I say this hoping it is unnecessary to even mention...please don't put her back on the street or take her to a shelter. 

Sending positivity and hope to you and Lily.


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## molecule (Jan 21, 2017)

Hank said:


> I think you provided Lily with a second chance at life which is a wonderful gift to give a deserving dog.
> It sounds like you're already having successes with her which is great and reassuring. Remember you don't know her background or where she's come from...she's also learning what it is/means to be a part of a human family (manners, expectations etc). Our trainer gave us the best one-liner advice...'if the dog isn't performing how you want don't question the dog, question the trainer'. We are asking them to conform to our life but we have to teach them how to do it. Dogs aren't born with innate knowledge of what can and can't be touched, eaten, sat on etc. Positively reinforcing what you want will get you farther than negatively reinforcing what you don't want. One trick our trainer told us when a dog jumps up at you don't say OFF say SIT. The desired behaviour is to sit not to get off once getting up. If that makes sense. Others may disagree with this philosophy.
> 
> I'm not going to say do this or do that but if you feel like you are unable to provide Lily with what she needs or if she's going to be a hindrance rather than a boon maybe rehoming Lily is the best option. It sounds like HeCallsMeBama (see previous posts) has some connections in GA.
> ...


Please don't worry! We would never put her back on the street or drop her off at one of those horrible kill shelters. I will keep coming back here and write to you guys, letting you know of her progress and how things are going. The thought of an animal alone and suffering outside or in a shelter lined up for heart stick death makes me sick. With us she might not have a lot of exercise, but she has a cat to play with (they really romp, so does that count as exercise?) and us to feed her, cuddle her, train her and tend to her potty needs. I know that most people on this forum are very into exercise, hunting and running around with their dogs, so I can understand that my perspective must seem very alien to you. I will try to explain it: 
I have never been a physically active person - even as a child I had to be threatened with grounding before I would do anything even remotely considered exercise. I was always the person who played sick during gym class - but not because I am lazy..... I read a LOT, get very good grades, have plenty of more cerebral skills at my disposal.... I am just physically "not with it". Even if I tried, I was never as coordinated as others, never built up the muscle and flexibility or endurance that other children or teens had. And believe me, I tried, there was a phase I went through where I was determined to become "normal" and ended up hurting myself in the process.
These days I am a graduate student, doing work I love and have finally put those ghosts to rest. I don't enjoy exercise and I have learned to accept it, to keep it at a minimum. I get it that I can't sit on my butt all day, that I need to at least do some cardio and mobility training, which is why I go for short walks and do Daily Burn and watch that I eat a healthy, balanced diet.
I worry about Lily, yes, especially when I see what other people post about their dogs and how they interact with them. I worry when I see her being destructive, I worry when she cries. But I also know that I can't turn into a different person to suit her, because if I am miserable, I can't bring her any happiness either.
For now, I will keep her and give it my best shot with the "non-exercise" tips I get here on the forum. I will consider myself a foster home and just keep going, keeping her as long as necessary. Maybe that ends up being forever. As long as she isn't suffering, that is fine by me.
Thank you for the advice about positive reinforcement. You are right - Lily doesn't respond very well to DOWN or STOP, if anything she just gets agitated by the sound of our raised voices. I will try telling her to sit instead.
Do you have any tips about stealing food from the table or eating the cat's food?


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

This is just my honest thoughts on it.

We are trying to push the needs of a high drive hunting bred dog, on what might possibly be a vizsla mix. And even all vizslas are not highly driven dogs. A lot depends on their breeding.
It would have been soul crushing to Lucy, if she had not been able to run free chasing everything that moved.
Cash needs to be off leash stretching his legs about 3 days a week to be happy.
Then there is June, and yes she gets to go running because the other dogs required it. June is happy running errands with me, and going shopping. As long as its a outing, and shes the center of attention shes on cloud nine. I don't think she would care if she was never off leash, but I think the exercise is good for her.

If she is indeed a mix, most vizsla rescues don't foster mixes. Its one of the reasons I started helping Cane Rosso Rescue. 
A dog with Lilly's problems needs a experienced foster, that is willing to provide long term care. She may not need it in experienced hands, but you don't know until you take them in. Any rescue that adopted her out with the problems she has right now, is just setting her and the new family up for failure. That leads to dogs being returned, or dumped. 
This dog has a home, gets walked, and attention daily. I would not send her to a rescue that does not have a foster home in place for her. Some rescue dogs spend months sitting in a kennel waiting for a adopter. What she has right now is a lot better than that.


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## molecule (Jan 21, 2017)

TexasRed said:


> This is just my honest thoughts on it.
> 
> We are trying to push the needs of a high drive hunting bred dog, on what might possibly be a vizsla mix. And even all vizslas are not highly driven dogs. A lot depends on their breeding.
> It would have been soul crushing to Lucy, if she had not been able to run free chasing everything that moved.
> ...


Thank you. I am inclined to agree. I can deal with her problems, even if it means crating her during the day and keeping an eye on her. I love giving her attention and working with her on the level I have described and she is growing on me daily. My husband too - he adores her. During the time she hangs out with me on the couch and follows me around the apartment etc., Lily does not seem unhappy or crushed. I wouldn't want her sitting around in a kennel, in limbo, wondering if she'll ever find a home. I have high hopes that she will adapt to us and that her higher levels of energy will subside.
Another positive point - aside from the times I go home to visit my parents, we are always around. We don't go out much at all, and if we do, it is always somewhere that permits her to come along. When I do visit my parents, my husband's dad is willing to take Lily and watch her. She has already been introduced to that environment on numerous occasions and enjoys it, especially the company of their dog.
So, no kennels and strangers!


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## molecule (Jan 21, 2017)

So.... she bit my husband when he tried to pet her while she was chewing a bone. Drew blood.

Not good. He instinctively whacked her in self defense, pretty hard. Then he growled at her and locked her up.
The incident shocked us. We are trying to simulate the situation now each evening, putting out a bone and taking it from her. She seems to remember the whack in association with the bone itself though, not the biting.
In any case, she is allowing us to take it and actually drops it if we approach. 
Things were going so well! She was sitting and staying..... why, why, why this???

Any suggestions?


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## lilyloo (Jun 20, 2012)

EDIT: I just re-read your post and realized your husband was petting her, not trying to take the bone away, oops! Sorry.

Sorry to hear about this. 

Although our girl has never growled at or bit us (she's quite submissive in nature) I've always made a point to not grab food/treat items from her or any other dog, but rather give her a command to "drop" or "leave it" if I don't want her to have it anymore. This pretty much takes out the risk of something like what you described happening. She always gets praise or a treat in return. Sometimes trading one thing for another can work, too, and we used to do that a lot with our girl in the early days but don't need to anymore.

I don't have much to offer regarding her associating the bone with your husband hitting her. She needs to build up the trust with him again.


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## molecule (Jan 21, 2017)

Hi!
Yeah, he wasn't taking the bone from her when it happened. He was just reaching down to give her a pet and then I heard this snarl and my husband yelling.
We are doing the "giving the bone and taking it away" thing to teach her that we are allowed to approach her food at any given point and even take it away, without having to fear being bitten. We can't really simulate the original situation though, because she is too afraid to hold the bone or chew on it when we get too close. She immediately drops it and backs away.
She seems to think it was a pack order thing asserting dominance over the bone. It wasn't. It was the biting we want to stop - we don't want to steal her bone. We just want to be able to approach her at all times without being bitten.


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

Hi, Dharma's owner again. Can you give the cat its own place to eat and go to the bathroom. I now have 4 cats and used to only have 2. Dharma would eat their food and get into the litter box.(Gross I know!).
I installed a cat door into our office/4th bedroom. That way at least the cats could go somewhere safe to do their stuff.
You are doing an awesome job given your circumstances, don't lose sight of that. We are here to help you and not be judgemental. We are all working at being the best owners we can be.
I have issues with Dharma growling and being protective over dental sticks. We always keep the same tone of voice and will say "hey what was that? Stop it." She will drop the treat and then let us pet her. I don't like her growling or barring her teeth either. It does make you wary of her next action, but you need to train the behaviours would like to see. You need to continue to work consistently on the crating and the bone thing. I would never hit an animal though because that just isn't right but rather I would use my voice. I used to work with a lot of awfully big horses in a past life. It is amazing what a little bit of authority and a voice will do. Try to build that trust and respect and you will be alright. It sounds like you are doing a great job.


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## molecule (Jan 21, 2017)

Hi again!
The cat actually has its own spot to eat and relieve itself in my husband's gaming room, away from Lily. Lily is extremely food aggressive if the cat approaches her food though, often baring her teeth and trying to bite the cat in the head. It is scary. But at least the cat is able to get away. 
We always say no and tell her to stop when she does it, but that never changed anything. She persists in doing it.
The fact that she does it to people as well is rather disconcerting.
We don't hit Lily - we try to growl at her, speak in an authoritative voice or at most pin her down to her back if she is really bad.
I don't really consider the whack she got during the incident as "hitting her" since it was a reflexive, defensive move my husband made after being bitten hard enough that his hand needed bandaging. If I'd been bitten like that I would have probably hauled out too, instinctively just to get the dog away from me. I've accidentally kicked the cat when it scratched my leg - the pain sensation just causes the reflex. 
My husband is pretty strong from his job, so I have no doubt the whack wasn't a pleasant feeling, which is no doubt why she is now rather traumatized around the bone. I am not sure if I feel sorry for her though, since being bitten is pretty unacceptable. In any case, she seemed to learn a lesson of some kind in pecking order from the incident. I am not sure if this is a good or bad thing - in one way, I rejoice that she would now rather drop the bone and retreat than growl and bite us, but I don't know if she actually learned the right lesson. We aren't interested in her bone. We just don't want her to bite.
I asked my husband if he had enough time to react to the snarl and he said no. The snarl and bite came pretty close together.

It is scary.

I guess we'll continue giving her the bone and then approaching her to pet her, being super nice if we don't hearing any growling. We will probably try with a different form of treat, one that she doesn't associate with the incident.


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

It's normal for dogs who have lived out on the streets to have, what to us are, inappropriate reactions around food. It's just a survival instinct. I have no problem with non-abusive, but physical discipline when it is merited, but believe this is only after a dog disobeys a known command. Lily has never learned that biting is not ok, so you have to teach her. If you can reframe the situation in this light it may help you both find some compassion for her. I have been bitten before by a dog and it is hard for both parties to regain trust, so compassion on your part will go a long long way. 

For now I would leave behind dominance theory based, Cesar Milan-esque training methods like pinning her on her back or growling. There might be a place for them later down the road, but now a positive+ training method will likely be more effective. 

As lilyloo suggested I would absolutely work on a leave it or drop command, starting with something less valuable or triggering than food, like a stuffed animal. Google clicker training for this as that will be a really easy way to train for this.

I would also search the forum for bite inhibition. This is how people teach young puppies that biting is inappropriate and is meant to condition them away from what is a natural response for them, to bite and to bite hard. A bite inhibited dog may still react, but would control how hard they bite. Since she isn't a young puppy this will be harder to train and may not stick, but it's still worth pursuing. I'm not sure how to approach this, so I've linked to a couple articles.

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/13_6/features/Bite-Inhibition_16232-1.html
Takeway: don't punish growling, rather respect the communication and manage the environment.

http://www.puppydontbite.com/is-it-too-late-to-teach-my-adult-dog-not-to-bite/
Takeaway: Professional help may be needed. 

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/5_4/features/If-Your-Dog-Bites-Someone_5444-1.html


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I agree that building a bond, and a relationship of trust, and respect is the best option. 
And that most of the training needs to be positive, for her to learn the correct behavior. Although some dogs do need some negative, after a behavior is learned. 

I don't agree with hitting, or kicking a dog. As it makes them not trust your actions. 
But also know in the heat of the moment, if you have a dog attached to your hand, it can happen. 
Some of our long time members, know Cash has a aggressive streak in him. He can be territorial with people, he does not have a working relationship with. At one point many years ago, he went after my son. Before a thought could even process, I kicked him away from my son. Grabbed him by his collar, and back. And literally threw him in his crate. It's not something I'm proud of, but I'm humble enough to say it happened. 
Me, and Cash have been through a lot since that time. We both know what can, and can't be done.


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## molecule (Jan 21, 2017)

The thing that scares me about these articles is the constant recommendation of professional help. I cannot afford that, anymore than obedience school or dog walkers or trainers of any kind.

If I am going to to this, I have to do it together with my husband. We can't have her biting us when we pet her, bone or no bone.

I will, however, immediately drop the reservation I have towards her and work on the compassion factor. It is easy to get angry and guarded, but I do understand that it is not her fault. She's never had anyone around to teach her anything. We are working on the commands and she is doing well with "lie" and "sit" - stay is still a bit of an issue, especially if there is something distracting her. "Drop it" is what we are going to focus on now, with something other than a bone. I don't want her to feel afraid of us while eating a bone, that wasn't our intent.
Thanks Texas, for telling me about the instance with your son. It is always so easy to imagine perfect human behavior, but we have instincts too - to protect ourselves and our loved ones.


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## molecule (Jan 21, 2017)

UPDATE:
The last two days have been much better. She seems terrified of the bone, but thankfully not of us. She lets us take the bone away without any issues and for now, I have locked it away, since it just reminds her of what happened. 
It seems so surreal to us now, that she bit my husband. Sort of like an anomaly, a weird freakish incident. 
I am, strangely enough, not scared of her. I let her do everything she used to do, including lick my face.
I don't have the feeling that she is a "biter", not in the usual sense. 
Nonetheless, I have spoken to Texas about possible rescues that take "biters" just in case her behavior changes for the worse. I feel much better knowing there are venues and options if things go south. I think that is the worst part, feeling alone with the problem, knowing there is no one to turn to if things become unmanageable. Dropping a dog off at a shelter is just not something we could ever forgive ourselves for and it is comforting to know that there are other options.
Our first option, of course, is sticking with it. Project: First ever couch potato Vizsla.
And indeed, for the moment, things are back to normal - she romps with the cat, which is her main source of rowdy exercise. This is basically like our version of purging her of the "zoomies" - we like to encourage her playtime with the cat as much as possible due to our sedentary lifestyle. We have pretty much proofed the living room so that there is not much to knock down or destroy while they go at each other, for sometimes almost half an hour until the cat slinks off in exhaustion. We have doggie gates now, which we strategically placed so that Lily is always where we can see her. Strangely enough, the cat can't get past them either! Lol. So it is great for keeping them separate when the cat is tired or eating in its "cat space" or we want some calm time while watching a movie.
Lily is getting very good with sitting on the porch (and not charging off) We have linoleum floors now, so the allergy problem has diminished a great deal and the flea problem is under control. We are still not at the point where we think we can trust her being uncrated during the day while we are gone. Just the other day, she pulled a mat into her crate (sort of like a welcome mat for her crate) and ripped it to the tiniest shreds. We are scared we will come home and find destruction of some kind and judging the conditions of the door frames my husband had to fix in the last apartment, we are probably correct. I think she might be ready for that in a few months, but not now. She isn't even 2 years old yet and seems much younger in spirit than she looks.
I am contemplating on starting with bed sleeping first. Maybe that is the best way to initiate it. She does love cuddling so.
She is scheduled for spaying this coming Wednesday. Not really looking forward to that. 
But I feel hope again, so.... that's a good thing.


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## molecule (Jan 21, 2017)

UPDATE:
Lily was spayed yesterday and checked for heart worm. She is negative and now on Heartguard, with a gigantic E-Collar wrapped around her neck.
Guess what? She is now a crate potato. Temporarily. She is on pain meds and just lies there in her crate, barely wanting to move. We have taken her out to go potty, but it is very hard to get her to leave the apartment. I guess the roles are reversed now!
This morning she managed to remove her E-Collar, which gave me a shock. The vet had warned me about possible infections and all the money it would cost to fight them if she went at her wound. We have been saving to get her spayed etc., but we don't have anything like that sitting in our bank accounts, not so soon after all these costs. I hope, hope, hope, she doesn't do it again.
Although she looks like she blames us for her condition (accusing eyes, has pulled up her lip upon approach), usually she wags her tail when one of us is next to her crate. I guess she is just in pain, confused and doesn't know what's going on. I hope the pain meds kick in quickly this morning so that she will have some relief.
She did eat a little and gobbled down her medication and Heartguard. So, good sign.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

They can just want to rest after surgery. 
Don't know which pain meds she's on, but if it's a anti inflammatory they can only be taken on a full stomach. 
If it's tramadol, she can take it without food. 
Be sure and read all side effects any medication you give her can cause.


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## molecule (Jan 21, 2017)

She has both and yeah, the instructions etc. are very clear on the label. We disguise her pills with food, so that covers the base for the anti-inflammatory.
Other than her eating, she seems the same as yesterday, just lethargic and confused. I hope she sleeps the next few days.


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