# Sending dog to training camp?



## ccerta7330 (Jun 12, 2012)

Hi,
I have a Vizsla who is almost 8 months old. He's very difficult to train although I know he is very smart. He just does not want to comply, mostly with me, his primary caretaker. I am home most of the day, take him out almost every hour, play ball with him at the same time each afternoon. We let him run in the yard. He went to socialization training from 3-5 months of age, and he does some things on command- sit, hold, down.

He gets a lot of attention, but we cannot let him just be in the house outside his gated area with the family. He is crazy running around, jumping on all the furniture, knocking people down. Other big problems include that he bites me when excited and jumps on me nonstop. I have been trying to correct this for many MONTHS. I have tried several different approaches, recommended to me by my vet and by various trainers. The water bottle works for awhile, but if you don't have it, he reverts back. I cannot walk around with a water bottle all day for the rest of my life. I want to coexist peacefully with this dog, like dogs I've had before. I never had a dog be so out-of-control especially when the effort we are making is intense. My husband is suggesting to send him to a training camp for obedience and hunting skills. What do you think? PS I do spend time training him each day but still he will not stop the biting when excited, and jumping up on us. I don't understand why he is still doing these things, when I am correcting him at least 20 times per day.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> My husband is suggesting to send him to a training camp for obedience and hunting skills. What do you think?


First welcome to the forum.

I think you have a good Vizsla that needs a purpose in life.

Give him a purpose and life is good.

Anybody can train an easy go lucky type dog. But you didn't get one of those. You got a Vizsla. I hope someone told you before hand.

It's the tough smart ones that give trainers the greatest satisfaction.

If you send him away to train then what? Are you going to do anything with the new talents he will aquire when he returns?

Channel the energy. We can help if you are honest with yourself and be up for the challenge.

Vizslas are not for everyone. They really are not.

RBD


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## Aimless1 (Sep 25, 2011)

redbirddog said:


> It's the tough smart ones that give trainers the greatest satisfaction.


Truer words have not been spoken.


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## ccerta7330 (Jun 12, 2012)

Hi redbirddog,
Thank you for such a quick reply. Our dog is going to be a hunting dog, on weekends, with my husband. That is why he was purchased so whatever they teach him at the camp would be continued by us. At this point though, I am stuck with him all week long and two young kids too, and I cannot even let the dog run around with them. I'm covered with bruises all over my body, and scars from his biting that was worse in previous months. These days he doesn't cut the skin. He likes to bite you when you are petting him, particularly when you are rubbing his belly, he bites your hands/wrists. I don't know if this was the wrong dog for me, but I am stuck now, so I have to figure something out. I will admit it's been hard to stay "motivated" when the dog physically causes me injuries and ruins my clothing, shoes, etc. I can accept "puppy behavior" for what it is, but my vet does not think he is behaving appropriately for his age (when I saw her last at 6 months). I thought I was helping him by training with him every day and trying to exercise him outside. He gets a ton of time outdoors. Any suggestions on activities to help him have a purpose that I can do with him each day? We already do simple training but I am willing to try other things if it might change his behavior.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

Hi ccerta7330, and welcome! 

How much exercise does your V get every day? And I don't mean "Well, he's loose in the yard all the time to run around." How many hours do you spend taking him on off-leash adventures? Riley is a basket-case right now and mouthing our arms, jumping on us, etc. but I really don't blame her because she's hardly gotten any *real* exercise due to being injured and then going into heat. She requires *at least* 2 hours of exercise (running, off-leash) to really tire her out. The backyard is boring - take him some place fun! Research some good parks or beaches in your area (where off-leash dogs are allowed) and watch him come alive! 8)

A tired Vizsla is a good Vizsla.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

ccerta,

Send him to camp until upland bird hunting season. Your husband will have a young dog to hunt with in October but sounds like the best solution for your family at this point.

You have a hunting dog. Not good for you and kids but there might be some wonderful pheasant in the freezer this fall if he gets trained professionally. 

I'd have your husband find a good Vizsla trainer that has summer programs ASAP.

Good luck. That is what I'd do in your place in life. But that's just my opinion. My wife would agree I am sure.

RBD


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## SkyyMax (Apr 5, 2012)

Hi Ccrerta - welcome to the forum!

Vizslas do need a lot of exercise, it could be difficult for you with 2 young kids to take your dog for a walk every day, may be you have a treadmill? You can teach the dog to walk on treadmill to drain some of the energy.



threefsh said:


> A tired Vizsla is a good Vizsla.


I think training camp is a great idea!


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## leihan (Apr 5, 2012)

Hello ccerta 7330
You have been very honest in your post it can be very hard work,i think redbirddog is right send him to camp it could be the break you need to re kindle your relationship as this feeling could get worse and that's not good for your family or the dog.
Would you be able to visit the camp on a regular basis so you are able to see how its done and continue with what he needs on his return? You have a lot to consider I'm sure you will get lots more advice from the members. Good luck and im sure you will get the dog your after


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## adrino (Mar 31, 2012)

Threefsh has said it all, being in the yard will not satisfy a vizsla for long. He needs a lot of excercise outside of his comfort zone, off leash for 2 hours a day at least. 
I have a 7 months old girl, she normally would have 1 hour at the morning and 1 hour at the afternoon in the park or woods near by. BUT right now she's in heat too and only has on leash walks. She's going nuts not having the excercise, well the free run lets just say. She still gets the two hours but on leash and that's just not good enough for her. We play with her more inside than we would normally do and do training every day to tire her brain too.

I suggest not to pet him when he's biting you. That gives the wrong message. Do not repeat the command too many times. Say it once and make him listen to you. For a few months I even made her work for her food. Took most of it out with me for the walks and train train train. The rest went into a Kong so she still had to figure it out how to get to it. Repetition is your best friend now! 

Good luck and I hope the camp will help him learn some patience and a reason to be a more obedient vizsla.


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## ccerta7330 (Jun 12, 2012)

Hello,
Thank you all for such wonderful insight. We have over an acre of land so he is getting a big space to play in now, but I am going to work on bringing him to the dog park more. I've taken him before but I've been worried about his safety since with other dogs, he's very submissive usually and a dog pinned him down last time. He "plays appropriately" with dogs, but not with people. Anyway, I am going to try that for now, and ramp up my daily training with him. Hopefully we can send him to camp though at least for a month to try to really get him good examples (the other trained dogs) and get him to realize how he should be acting. In the meantime, I am going to stop petting him and put him in his crate each time he bites me and see if that works.


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Hello Ccerta,

I think hunting camp sounds likes a great idea, but I also think it is imperative that as a family you come up with a plan to address the jumping on people, biting and jumping on furniture. I know dogs who have gone to a 2 week obedience boot camp and come back with amazing manners. Oso went to a two week hunting camp (only hunting, no obedience) and came back exactly how he left in the obedience area, as we supposed he would. On another note, Oso stopped working with his dog walker when he was 5 months old and he was still jumping up on people and biting the leash. Now he regresses whenever he sees her and will jump on her. I think even if you do send him to obedience camp, it is really important to get training on how to consistently reinforce what he learned. I think Threefsh may be right on about the exercise and that may make a huge difference for you just in itself. With exercise your dog will be able to regulate himself better and focus on what you want/need him to do. 

I would highly recommend doing training after exercise with your boy. And I would also suggest only allowing him outside of the gated area when on a leash, for now. Perhaps make ALL the time outside of the gate "training time" and otherwise he has to stay in his gated area. Set aside 5, 10 or 20 minutes where you can play with your dog or do training with your dog in the rest of the house and know that you can take the time to be 100% consistent in how you respond to his behaviors. If you could do short training sessions with 100% consistency several times a day, this could make a big difference. 

Another thought, have you tried clicker training yet? I am a HUGE fan of positive reinforcement and we use clickers, although our trainer says you can also use a marker word like "yes". So, You would reinforce your dog for standing next to the sofa, laying next to the sofa, getting near the sofa without jumping on it, etc. When your dog goes near the sofa without jumping, click (or mark) and reward with treats/praise or toy. 

Pre-Oso I wasn't a fan of negative punishment, but we found time outs stopped furniture jumping almost immediately. Oso always wants to be with us, so to go on a time out was definitely punishing. When Oso jumped on the couch, I would say, "Time out?" in a happy, excited voice like he was telling me he wanted to go on time out, and then I would lead him into his timeout place for 30 seconds of no whining. He stopped jumping on the furniture so quickly. Once he stopped whining for 30 seconds he got to come out and try again. 

Have you actually had a dog trainer come out and watch how you handle problem behaviors and give you pointers? I would guess for most dogs this isn't necessary, but since the training doesn't seem to be working, I would get a good trainer to come out and assess what you are doing and give some tips. 

With biting/nipping, we yelped loudly when Oso bit/mouthed our hands. When he looked at us concernedly, we waited a moment, had him sit and then continued playing. Even if we had to yelp 20x in a row, he learned that "wow, those humans are really delicate and won't play with me if I'm too rough"

You may have tried a lot of these things. It sounds like you are coming from the right place and I hope you update us on the progress you make with your boy. Oso just got a mini surgery from an injury he got at the dog park.  He loves going, but i think the best thing is play dates with dogs you know are stable. Also, Vizslas love to exercise WITH their owners, so if you don't know where to go off leash with him other than the dog park, you could simply go in your back yard and play soccer, or jog or walk around throwing a toy for him (although, I'm sure doing this for an hour or two could get boring, with ours it works if we switch things up and use creativity!)


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Warning - long post...

Ccerta,
We have had several dogs in for two week evaluations and introductions to birds, gun, etc. over the past several months. The dogs that come in have varying levels of obedience and the primary reason for most of them when they come in for the two weeks is to evaluate their field abilities through birdwork and field time. We do work to develop them as much as possible during that time. From a training standpoint, two weeks is a timeframe that allows us to bond with the dog, the dog to become comfortable with the new routine, evaluate where the dog's strengths and work areas are and potentially begin some training on those work areas. It does not offer a timeframe to make great strides in training, though there are times the dog just loves to learn.

We recently had a dog in for two weeks more as a favor to a friend who's other dog had surgery and needed two weeks quiet rest. This dog was a definite "special needs" dog, came into rescue as an 8 month old pup. This dog has bitten family members, has fear issues and significant obedience issues of not only jumping, but grabbing and holding on with front legs. He would not kennel on day one, stealing items, poor recall, etc. I spent 90 minutes working with the dog the first day teaching "kennel" alone, half that time the next day and so forth until after about 10 days the dog happily kenneled. He also quit jumping through consistent work at an un-emotional level. The owner was simply amazed that the dog was happily sitting with me in the back and never tried to jump on me - content to be petted. Yet at the same time, he jumped on his owner repeatedly, just as the dog that jumps on his dog-walker when seen, because he knows he can get away with it. After about 10 minutes working in the same manner with the Owner - the dog's jumping diminished dramatically.

You mention that your dog plays well with other dogs, but not humans. I suggest to look at it from the dog's perspective. What are the other dogs doing that reinforces his proper play behavior? I would wager that if he plays "wrong" he's quickly corrected in a clear, no b.s. that's "the way it is" manner. With people, he's probably learned the opposite given your description. Mother dog teaches compliance quickly with a combination of sharp corrections followed by isolation, indifference and affection. Affection is infrequent and earned as the pup grows. An interesting observation, the current realm of Positive only training methods appear to be pretty much the exact opposite of how a mother dog would train her pup.

I am all for positive training methods and if the right method for that particular dog it is the go to methodology for training. However, after doing this for as long as I have, I also understand that what I call "pressure" followed by reward when the desired behavior is extremely effective in producing manners. Pressure can be as simple as holding the dog in a position with a lead on his id flat collar and then releasing the pressure holding him and rewarding when he offers a behavior you want. It's a combination of clicker (positive) training and guidance. I actually learned the "release from pressure" as a reward in training horses. I believe it helps the dog learn to "cope" with stresses that happens in every day life. He may throw a fit and bite at the lead the first time he encounters it. His fight is with himself. Not verbalizing and staying calm and un-emotional waiting for the desired behavior is key. Just as spoiled children have tantrums, so do spoiled dogs. One doesn't need to become angry - just firm and non-reactive. 

What you are describing is dominance by the dog. It may seem harsh, but in my opinion, it is time to establish oneself as the leader in the house. The dog is no longer allowed to jump - if he does he gets knocked over with a knee. No verbalization, just a negative result. No emotion, no yelling, no stomping or striking - dog jumps up, dog hits knee, unpleasant result. The dog will quickly learn that it is not good or bad, it just "is". That's the rule, no option. No jumping on the furniture or beds. That's claiming territory. No going in and out doors until you allow it, no eating their dinner until you say it's ok. I often tag a 10 inch rope line to a collar on dogs like this and it dangles off of them 24 hours a day. It's much easier on both dog and human to have a short "handle". Emotions remain neutral, the dog does not react to being "grabbed" by the collar. The stubby lead stays out of the way and is very effective. In fact, I keep having to replace them as the dogs that I use this with usually go home with it at the Owners request. If he's a biter I use a longer slip lead for any handling until we both get confidence that neither is out to harm the other.

By setting strict guidelines and enforcing the rules in an un-emotional, non-reactive manner, the "just is" approach is well received by dogs. They want and need clear guidelines - and the more unruly the dog, the more clear and strict the guidelines need to be at the start. As the dog becomes a happy member of the pack beneath the humans, then asking them up after they stay off can be given as a reward to join you. It does not mean one does not love their dog by being firm, it means one cares about one's dog to train it to be a respectful, well mannered member of the family. 

Self-plug, I don't know where you are located, but I am heading off for a Summer Camp in South Dakota on wild birds in about 1 1/2 weeks. I am limiting the camp to 10 dogs and have a slot left. If you are interested, I would consider taking your boy on and giving him not only the basics in obedience but also an outstanding opportunity to learn birdwork on wild birds and a fantastic outlet for his energy. Please PM me off forum if you want further info.


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