# Split personality



## Rummy (Dec 22, 2012)

Help!

Our Vizsla is gorgeous, loving, brilliant with our kids.... But she is a completely different dog with me than with my husband.

This isn't something new, I was always the subject of her" shark attacks", there were times when it got so bad that someone else would have to intervene. But I've been working hard at gaining her respect: lots of training, I'm the one who takes her to puppy classes, feeding her, making sure I go through a doorway first, I do most of the walks...

But she's almost 6 mth now and she's getting worse. I was expecting some challenges as she hit the teenage phase, but I wasn't expecting it to be so one sided. When my husband is around she's an absolute angel. She'll try it on occasionally but a quick " leave" from my husband and she responds immediately. For me it's a completely different story.

For example when my husband let's her into the house she stands on the towel, lifts her foot up to be wiped (unprompted) and stands nicely until its all done. I let her in and she immediately tries to run of, I hold her collar to lift her paw up, she bites my arm, I'm trying to fight her off while doing her paws, she'll jump up for good measure. The whole ordeal is over, I let her go and she gives me a few more bites for good measure. They're not hard, but it's not a pleasant experience.

She'll follow me round the house trying to bite my feet. I try not to react but it's hard when you've got an almost fully grown V trying to trip you up.

She walks perfectly for my husband but she's a nightmare for me even though I take her for more walks. Even when she's off the lead she will jump at me biting my wellies.

Today she jumped on the dining table and knocked over a cup of tea while I was only 6ft away; something she wouldn't even contemplate if my husband was in the room.

I try to be consistent. I'm with her all day, every day. If she's really naughty I put her in another room for a couple of minutes, but nothing seems to help. More recently I've found myself putting her in her crate to give me a break for a few minutes if I'm trying to do something, which I feel really guilty about.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Or at least reassure me that she will settle down... eventually.


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

Rummy said:


> I try to be consistent. I'm with her all day, every day. If she's really naughty I put her in another room for a couple of minutes, but nothing seems to help. More recently I've found myself putting her in her crate to give me a break for a few minutes if I'm trying to do something, which I feel really guilty about.


Oh your pup has you figured out. 

The reason I brought up your quote is you used the G word. Guilty! Don't ever feel guilty unless you are doing something to harm the dog. If you are putting in another room or in her crate to give her a time out then do this with no emotion involved. In fact any correction you are giving needs to be done with no emotion. Not disappointment not anger, just with confidence. Your pup has you figured out. She knows that if does things around you she is not going to get a proper correction. You need be assertive in nature and if this doesn't come naturally with the dog treat the correction of the dog the way you would if your husband was suddenly picking his nose in a restaurant!  Straight away I would assume you would be direct and correct him. Same thing needs to happen to the pup. Not harsh or with a temper just quick and assertive. You also might need to review your correction words. For instance do you say her name over and over again when correcting. Or do you use one work like NO with no other words. Using one work although this seems like common sense is the best way for her to understand. Yet often people let their emotions get in the way and they start to talk ..'No don't do that , ouch you bit me, get down right now.' When actually on word NO will work if used consistently. It will have great effect if you talk less and act more.


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## Rummy (Dec 22, 2012)

Thank you. I think you're right about being more assertive. I think I am but then my husband tells me I'm not.

My problem now is that it's hard to make a stand when she's biting me, or not to chase her round the room when she's got my favourite gloves.  I do try but if I ignore her she goes and gets something else and waves it at me... She definitely known what she's doing. She's far cleverer than me.


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

I guess more specifically. 

I am guessing you mean she is play biting or mouthing and not properly biting as if she was you would have some serious wounds. 

To stop the play bites don't excited start saying 'No no no' Literally ignore and shut her out of the room. If that still isn't working you might want to try some pet corrector. 

Never chase her if she grabs something she shouldn't have. You instead need to work on the drop it command. Chasing her enforces the bad behaviour as pups love to play chase.


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Rummy, that would drive me absolute bonkers! You poor thing.

I would actually start training her like she was in boot camp. I would get:

- a slip lead, kind of like this (http://www.amazon.com/Mendota-Slip-...UTF8&qid=1359130162&sr=8-3&keywords=slip+lead). 
- something to keep treat in on you all the time - fanny pack?
- clicker. 

You want to fasten the slip lead right behind her ears (so you can't hurt the little girl) and just make everything controlled. A little tug on the slip lead will be her consequence. (it doesn't hurt, but is a little uncomfortable). 

The clicker is a sign that she did something right (yay) and good things are on the way (like treats). You clicker train her by clicking and then giving her a treat within 2 seconds - immediately is best. Repeat this about 20 times (no command) and for life she will understand the clicker concept. 

NOTE: You only use consequences (the tug on the lead) for things she knows 100%.

For coming inside: You walk inside - give her the command she knows (sit or paw). If she doesn't do it, you say "no" (calm, loud, tone doesn't matter) and then give her a little tug on the slip lead. Say the command again. If she does it, great! click and treat. If she doesn't, tug. Repeat until she gets it correct. Continue until all feet have been wiped. When she is done, don't take the lead off her. Whenever she is out with you, the lead should be on. 

Let's say you walk across the floor (maybe keep lead in hand, if you suspect she'll bite your feet). She bites your feet, say "Leave it" if she leaves it, even for a moment, click and give treat. If she doesn't, say no and tug. 

I would structure her time like she's in a training camp. Every ___ amount of time, hour or half hour, I would train her for maybe 10 minutes (set the timer) - commands like sit, down, leave it, heel, etc. Maybe take her out for potty, play with her for 5 minutes. And then put her in the crate for 30 minutes or 50 minutes, or whatever you've decided. 

Set the timer and when her time is out, start the training again.

I know it sounds kind of extreme, and it's not very much fun for you, but she should get tired from all the mental stimulation and is forced to see you as a new light (as someone who is consistent). Once she gets the idea, you can relax her schedule until eventually it is more normal, though I would always keep the training practices in place.

RULES TO FOLLOW
- when she is doing something wrong, always give her a command to follow (sit, leave it, etc). It doesn't even have to be closely related, as long as it is incompatible with the negative behavior. Reinforce (with praise and in beginning, treat) if she follows the command. 
- only say "no" after she doesn't listen to the command and give consequence. (do not give consequence without first saying no).

**there is no need to talk harshly or loudly if you are always consistent. 

PREVENTATIVE MEASURES
- keep your house tidy (or at least the room she is in), so that there is nothing for her to grab and wave in your face except her toys. Work on "drop it". You will love that command. She will love it because she gets treats. 

Oh and good luck. Ask me questions if you're interested in any of this. The key is consistency. You also want to focus on positive behaviors. Even now Oso will pick up things in his mouth. We just say "thank you" (we use that instead of drop it) and he gives it to us. No need to chase and absolutely no problem.


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## chrispycrunch (May 11, 2012)

It definitely sounds to me like you're not confident enough with how you how you handle her and the commands you give. This lack of confidence and assertiveness only makes the matters worse because your dog will sense this and then just keep on taking advantage.....which in turns makes you feel even less in-control.

L2L gave you some great pointers on how to turn things around, but you need to believe in your abilities. Dogs can sense your energy.....it's how they know when you're sick or when you're happy and want to play.

It's time to put your game face on! You can do this!!!


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Born and crispy are most likely on the money. Somewhere along the line, you have caused this behaviour. Being with pup most of the day is part of it. 

When we spend a lot of time with a dog, training disciplines slowly erode without conscious knowledge. So as an example, you call her name, she doesn't respond, so you call her name again...... Bang....recall is now soft. That's just one example.

Go back to basic training. Start from scratch, then work back to where you should be now.


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## Rummy (Dec 22, 2012)

Thank you for all the advice. It's really useful and it's nice to have some specific pointers to work on. I particularly like the idea of a 'boot camp'. I can see for myself how good she can be...

I took her for a walk earlier off the lead. I met another dog walker whose first comment was how beautiful she is, and his second comment was how well she walked off the lead. That he'd been watching and noticed how she kept close to me even when she got distracted by a bird. So there is hope. 

I'll let you know how her training goes.


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## Rummy (Dec 22, 2012)

Day 2 of Ruby's boot camp. So far, so good. She's good in training, I had to pop out a couple of times yesterday so to save her from being couped up in her create too long I attached her to me. She resisted at first but got the idea pretty quickly. That really helped as it meant I could control her straight away if she saw a nice 'toy' to go for. She even let me wipe her feet... Eventually. 

My biggest problem is that as soon as my husband returned home she was back to her old ways. If anything she was worse than normal. Biting (not aggressive), jumping on me, grabbing my clothes etc. Rebelling against the training perhaps?

Do you know how long it normally takes them to respond to intensive training?

Thanks for your help.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

It will take as long as it takes....... The more often you do it, the less time it will take. Days? Weeks? Months? Depends on two things..... You and the dog.... 
Great to see you havi.g a red hot go......


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## Rummy (Dec 22, 2012)

Day 3. She's woken up worse than ever. She's been "biting" me at every opportunity. Jumping on me. Punching on me or anything I try to do. Rearing up in a boxing stance when I go near her (even when I had a handful of treats!) 

She's not happy about the new assertive me. I'm hoping the next stage is submission.


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

It will take time. 

Right at the moment she crosses the line a firm no and shut her in a room for a bit. Everytime.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

*Re: Re: Split personality*



Rummy said:


> Day 3. She's woken up worse than ever. She's been "biting" me at every opportunity. Jumping on me. Punching on me or anything I try to do. Rearing up in a boxing stance when I go near her (even when I had a handful of treats!)
> 
> She's not happy about the new assertive me. I'm hoping the next stage is submission.


Rummy, I don't look at it as submission. Try thinking of it more as understanding. In other words, pup acts in a way which is unwanted. You place pup in isolation, give a firm no, use body language or whatever your method is. Pup after repetition and consistency links the two. If I do that, this happens. I don't like isolation, so I wont bite, nip, jump or whatever the unwanted action was. 

For what It's worth, as I've progressed in learning over the years of training my dogs, I have shifted thinking to more non verbal commands and if it must be verbal, containing no emotion. 

Example. Correcting a pulling dog on lead, by gentle lead pressure gave me faster heels than using a verbal no whenever pup tightened the lead. I hope that makes sense.


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

Biggest mistake is demanding and yelling at these great dogs

The reward system even small gains train the brain to push and exceed more for you 

All my pointers whistle and hand commands and water bottles and high protein treats ;D

If He earned it

Its like boxing you Fight Pissed or Rage your open and making mistakes Your Ko=ed fast"

most reactions and fast not processed emotions add to the hill of mistakes

Your Pup is a buffer of you and His Reflexions will be close to your care

You earn a Great Dog and love and passions and demanding his or hers Best with a calm heart and soul and voice

will add to your time spent with them

They Get it most humans less


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Couldn't agree more Rudy. They've certainly altered my mindset in a positive way. Don't think there's any other way with a V.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Rummy said:


> Day 3. She's woken up worse than ever. She's been "biting" me at every opportunity. Jumping on me. Punching on me or anything I try to do. Rearing up in a boxing stance when I go near her (even when I had a handful of treats!)
> 
> She's not happy about the new assertive me. *I'm hoping the next stage is submission.*


I hope NOT... she is only playing with U  

YoU need to read up on puppy behavior, if you don't mind a little constructive criticism.... try to put on soft pigskin work gloves from the Home Depot $9.99... and YELP every time she bites them (don't let her bite the gloves hard).


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## Rummy (Dec 22, 2012)

I'm quite happy to accept constructive criticism. Any advice is welcome.

The gloves aren't really needed. It's not painful when she bites, there's no growling either. I'm sure she's just playing with me. Its just that she won't take no for an answer. She will follow me round constantly (which is fine), but she's biting, grabbing etc the entire time.

I have no intention of being " hard" with her; I don't think I could if I tried. I'm just hoping that consistency and patience will pay off.


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## Jackieb (Nov 4, 2012)

Rummy. I think our pups must be soul mates. Wes just turned 6 months and he is starting to test his boundaries with me. He is doing much of the same behaviour, punching, shark biting, barking at me, running and jumping at me, growling. And starting to resource guard. He jumped at me a couple of nights ago and bit my shoulder leaving a bruise. I let the wild yelp out of me and he instantly fell to his belly as soon as he realized that he had hurt me. It took me a while to accept that it was purely driven by my behaviour. If I was going to take something out of his mouth, I would hesitate. I am retraining myself now and the past three days have been better. As soon as I get the drop command down to a science, it will get better. As for the resource guarding, I am trying to touch his stuff more and then give it back to him. But the growling and shark biting are scary - I keep telling myself "show no fear". (And then I question my sanity ..ha ha....) 

With that being said, I finally got him to stop dragging me around on the leash....it took four months, but the 'easy' command is now working and he slacks off pulling on the leash. And the sit command is my saviour. No matter what he is doing, 'sit' gets his attention and he sits immediately and waits for his treat (well, maybe not all the time - not if he has found one of the kids winter gloves). Baby steps.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

*Re: Re: Split personality*



Jackieb said:


> Rummy. I think our pups must be soul mates. Wes just turned 6 months and he is starting to test his boundaries with me. He is doing much of the same behaviour, punching, shark biting, barking at me, running and jumping at me, growling. And starting to resource guard. He jumped at me a couple of nights ago and bit my shoulder leaving a bruise. I let the wild yelp out of me and he instantly fell to his belly as soon as he realized that he had hurt me. It took me a while to accept that it was purely driven by my behaviour. If I was going to take something out of his mouth, I would hesitate. I am retraining myself now and the past three days have been better. As soon as I get the drop command down to a science, it will get better. As for the resource guarding, I am trying to touch his stuff more and then give it back to him. But the growling and shark biting are scary - I keep telling myself "show no fear". (And then I question my sanity ..ha ha....)
> 
> With that being said, I finally got him to stop dragging me around on the leash....it took four months, but the 'easy' command is now working and he slacks off pulling on the leash. And the sit command is my saviour. No matter what he is doing, 'sit' gets his attention and he sits immediately and waits for his treat (well, maybe not all the time - not if he has found one of the kids winter gloves). Baby steps.


just to add to your leash development......

When you give the easy command, use something non verbal with it. It could be a subtle wiggle or shake of the lead, or some light lead tension, or even a click of the fingers. Over time, the verbal command will be superseded by the non verbal command. Once again, it will take lots of repitition, but It's worth it.


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

I will have a new Girl V soon 

and then puppies

the comeback is on.

They will be workers finishers and family

and Mine will fit the needs of folks who get it and have life of Passions and fun

Rudy just now 3 is Sporting woodies like trees lmao 

His Genes His Blood Greta From Hungarian and Sir Boyd 

Momma

Can you hear me know?

Take the time to risk


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## Rummy (Dec 22, 2012)

We've had a breakthrough. She calmly sat there and let me wipe her feet. Amazing! She hasn't been so good since but certainly better than she has been.

Yesterday we attended the first class of our second course of training. The previous course of puppy training was not enjoyable in the slightest. She spent the entire time barking, trying to jump on other dogs, or attacking me for spoiling her fun. I left every class embarrassed and looking like I'd need savaged by a wild lion, not a cute puppy.

Today she was brilliant. She barked occasionally in responds to other dogs, but no incessant barking like last time, I was able to distract her with a toy (it had no effect last time), she followed instructions pretty well, and most amazing was that the trainer commented on how attentive she was. And at that point in time she really was. Ignoring her surroundings, eyes on me, sat waiting for her next instruction.

It's made me realise just how far we've come. And it's nice to see that the training is paying off. She's still following me round, jumping on me etc in the house. But yesterday has shown me that the hard work is definitely has been paying off.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Rummy, yes sometimes it is hard work. Sometimes you wonder why you persevere. Today hunting reminded me of why I put so much time into my pups. No leads after the initial walk in, hand signals in the bush, silent, steady, focussed on my every move. So I guess what I am leading to is that the light at the end of this tunnel is freakin blinding!!!!   It's worth all the time, all the effort, the times of frustration and I would do it all again, but with more time and effort, knowing the result it derives.

On our afternoon walk today, an old couple approached us along the path. I clicked my fingers, gave the hand signal and both pups trotted over happily to touch my hand as trained. I gave them the wait command and they stood like statues as the old couple wobbled past. As they got parallel with us, the old lady stopped, turned to look at the dogs, smiled, lifted her head and complimented me on what beautifully behaved dogs they were. That's satisfaction in a can!!!!


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