# Wild flush



## zigzag (Oct 4, 2011)

3 wild flushed roosters today, nothing pointed nothing gained!
How does my dog not sent these birds? Conditions, slight rain wet ground wind 5mph gusting to 10. And the dog walks up 3 roosters without getting birdy or pointing. I had the shot on one but bit my tung and let the !?$& fly! 

Do you shoot on a wild flush with a two year old dog on season two? Or just let it fly?


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Zig - high pressure or low temp wind - the list is endless -pheasents at rest put out a very small scent cone - answer 2 ? if it flys it dies - if PIKE busts a bird the conditions SUCK - not the V's fault - as always - wind in your face & the V in front of U !!!!


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## zigzag (Oct 4, 2011)

Conditions will be the same if not worse tomorrow. More rain on the forecast. I brushed the boys teeth tonight, will see if that helps.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Zig -that could V the answer _ LOL - in a given day 4 reasons I have no answer 4 - the pup will go from No nose 2 GREAT Nose !!!!!!!!!


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

zigzag said:


> 3 wild flushed roosters today, nothing pointed nothing gained!
> How does my dog not sent these birds? Conditions, slight rain wet ground wind 5mph gusting to 10. And the dog walks up 3 roosters without getting birdy or pointing. I had the shot on one but bit my tung and let the !?$& fly!
> 
> Do you shoot on a wild flush with a two year old dog on season two? Or just let it fly?


Absolutely not, I do not shoot wild flushing birds. Im not rewarding that, and the dog has to learn to work pheasants. They are a tough tough bird on dogs. 
But the only way the dog learns is by mistakes and exposure.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

How did the dog do in its first season, and did you shoot wild flushes then?
What is the dog doing when they flush wild? Is the pup acknowledging the wild flush? 

I used a lot of pen raised birds during training when mine were young. It took them some time to start pointing at a greater distances on wild birds. They busted quite a few coveys before they got it down.
There is 2 things you can do. First is work with pigeons and a launcher. If the dog gets 15 feet from it without pointing, launch the bird and let it fly back to the coop. Second is much harder. Its give the wild bird a pass.
If one of my dogs occasionally bumps a bird I don't think anything about it. If it turns into a flusher, then its back to the drawing board.


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

1ST LIGHT snows them **** birds wild birds only will hold much tighter and they must support there 

own core heat with numbers to brace natures furry 


they hold tighter and the points will be true far greater then rains that flood and reduce fresh scents 

Quail much of the same just different holding and feeding locations' weathers and nature makes the games much more raw and real

working any open field 1 red pointer and have 2 back stops at the end of the push

The pressure of the back door covered will make them hold much longer and release for a cleaner kill and shot for the drivers or back stop shooters

Research pre hunt your lands still matters

and the above will make them **** birds hold like Peanut butter some fun'' ;D

Age 11 months baby willow Hit Her 1st cycle 

THE PERIOD :-[ lots of blood and very grumpy

and now the 72 lber

STUD must face only me

he is sporting a nail driver and she is willing

Her tiny body is not ready for this Greatness

He finally fought me some this morning

I reduced Him to bubble gum 

I am out maned one bleedor you pre metopauser : :'(

lol

Rudy and the Nordic Warrior support Nuts ;D

Baby Willow diapers coming in bunches :

mercy me them wild **** birds

YOU MUST PROTECT THE CORE THE OVEN IS NOT NEARLY READY TO COOK 

prayers welcome


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

When it's just Pike & me working I do not shoot bumped birds (quail) - when out with 8-10 friends & 4-5 dogs if a bird comes over me - I SHOOT IT !!!!!!!!


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## zigzag (Oct 4, 2011)

Today was more of the same. He got a solid point held then got crazy birdy on a scent trail, took off 60 yards nose in the ground then bumped the bird. Oh well he at least remembered his Stop to Flush training. First season he got a few wild flushed birds shot for him. I would not say they were pointed or even located by the dog, just a wild flush. He has stuck about two dozen pheasant in two seasons. He has trained on pigeons in launchers since he was 16weeks old. He holds on pigeon/training birds just fine. It's not an easy game to play in real life.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Zig - everything comes down to how U like 2 hunt your pup - PIKE was trained on wild birds after the point 2 flush on the command GET em UP - we hunt a lot of heavy cover - this hurt me in AKC field trials & hunt tests - had 2 retrain PIKE - that is why we do AFTA trials now - it's suits his style - no penalty after the point and you make a effort 2 flush then the pup comes in this kills U in AKC events - also it's just U and the pup in the field and U get 2 GUN !!!!!!!!


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I started running mine on wild quail a month before hunting season just to get them ready. There were plenty of bumped coveys, but because they were not in season they all got a pass. There was no itchy trigger finger and it helped them tremendously. 
The only advice I can give you is only shoot pointed birds this season. If you know someone else with a solid pointer to hunt him with, it could speed up the process.


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

Zig, I think it falls back on what your goals for your dog are. 

I play the AF game and thus, try to hold my dogs to that standard in the field. 

But here are a couple of thoughts from what I have seen. 

Shooting birds that aren't pointed- If you do this too many times, your pointing dog, can turn into a flushing dog. Believe me, I've seen it. I have a buddy with an excellent pointer on quail, but when on pheasants, she is not too good. Why? They shot too many unpointed pheasants over her. I understand the desire to shoot the bird, but sometimes a bit of restraint now will help out in the long run. Believe me, it will make it that much more satisfactory in the end. And these dogs that we have, are wicked smart, with long memories. 
Quick story - Riley was really young, when we went pheasant hunting. He pointed a rooster that someone had shot and was wounded. Riley went in on the bird. The bird had other ideas. Spurred him pretty bad.
To this day, nine years later, Riley will still make sure that shot birds, are dead, dead, dead. 

I don't like the idea of running an young dog with an older dog to "show him the ropes". I've heard of that too. What ends up happening there is that you have a young dog that will follow around an older dog. The dog is learning to follow the other dog. I would rather the young dog develop independence and learn on his own. That way, he will learn where to go and what to do on his own. 
I hunt in thick stuff too. Plum thickets so thick all I can do is cover my face with my hands, put the gun aside, and walk in to flush. No way a safe shot is present. But I figure, the dog did his job to point, it's my job to flush. That's what I have trained them for. 
I don't want to confuse the dog ever by allowing it to flush. 

This all doesn't mean that dogs can't do a good job on running pheasants. I've seen dogs swing out in front of the pheasant to pin them. My Grady, I've followed him 300 yards on a running pheasant before he was able to pin the pheasant down. Pheasant are really tough birds, especially the later season ones. There isn't a way really, to train for swinging out, or slowly tracking a bird, other then to not shoot birds the dog puts up. Otherwise, the dog may not show any caution on game if a bunch of wild flushed birds are shot for it all the time. 

But in the end, it's what your expectations of the dog is, and what makes you happy.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

While I agree with John that running a young dog with a older one to much can cause them to get used to coming in second, and that's not what you would want to happen.
Doing it a few times and running the dog alone in-between will not cause that effect. Sometimes they learn from the older dog, and other times they ignore them. 
Worst case scenario is your young dog gets a lesson in backing, or tries to bust the other dogs point.


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

My Pointers all are tested By a Pro Stud  and much is processed using this choice 

if there raw wild tested 

The Pup will tell you very soon in round 1 when his or hers trail mix can go at it alone 

and when I was stacking Meat

I used up to 3 pointers and 5 or 6 back human : back door stoppers while I am working my mates driving Bigger Fields almost a must 

few birds can cut out the back door 1 dog most can  and even great mates the birds release far too out they fly far before a real shot and cut around you 24-7 as in wild birds 

Back door stoppers they fly they die as we force the birds into a smaller angles with pressure 

THE STACK 

No work benched shared

far slower learning curve fact 

if your a release site 3/4 dull dead bird hand planter :

none of this matters and the mate and you alone if fine but the mate the goof learns almost little to raw wild elements and the mate will bottom out due to zero passions

A few times with kids and cupcakes is fine and Pups 

in the hunt none of that is real upland remote raw bird hunting

that's flag football without Pads ;D

Earn it or its a walk with a dog

Nature gets it real

Wild remote extreme

2 mates maybe 3 work with me

and Yes there is a show STOPPER

He or she has much to share

if the trainer only touched them with meaning words and His Hands His whistles 

Reds can be a tad softer as well then other uplanders

Rudy has proven this 1st steps with Baby Willow to the Max 

she a stalker a cutter and will hold and hook a point as you drink warm soup 8)

Most of this process due to Big Rud there a great team

and Yes there is not one right answer there is one right Handler

to make and meet and exceed these demands


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

PIKE has a giant NOSE - but he is a 10 -20ft pointer - gets the scent - then homes in - like V-J posted - a running pheasent is hard on a pointer - PIKE then runs & blocks - have no idea how 2 teach this - but it does put birds in the BAG !!!!


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

I guess a lot depends on what kind of shoot you're doing, on a walked-up, rough shoot I guess you really want a good solid held point and flush on command, on a driven shoot all isn't lost if your dog scatters a covey as long as it stops after a covey and doesn't go mad for another covey straight away and get too many birds in the air, it must be really tempting for dog to plough in but this is where steadiness really is a virtue.


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## zigzag (Oct 4, 2011)

Things improved today. We ran pigeon drills the last two days. Walking with a bird bag throwing birds down with dog on CC. Working stop to flush. Then ran on pigeons in release traps. We got the first freeze of the year this morning, blue bird day with a steady wind at 5-10mph. I think the frost really helped us out, first bird held tight, for a solid point. As soon as yea liked point the bird flushed 10 yards from me 10 feet from the dog. Clean kill number one. Second bird got bumped no shots fired. Third bird was pointed then relocated (circled) and pointed again. I kicked the brush for a nice flush and clean kill. Retrieve was sloppy but oh well.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

So great to hear its all coming together.


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