# When to Neuter and why?!



## Bushclass (Jan 7, 2018)

Hey everyone! Can you tell me at how old you neutered your V or if you even did?! What was your reasoning? Did you notice any side effects?

Our V Banjo is 9 months old now. We were planning on waiting until at LEAST a year - aiming more for 15-18 month mark - however our trainer who is actually very much pro-intact (she's the one who informed us we should wait, and from there we did our own research) has recently and surprisingly stated we should think about neutering him. She's worried he has some behavioural traits that may stick around if we decide to wait however she says she thinks we can work through them if we correct them at the proper times. 

He's in no way aggressive but he IS very interested in females and males both in different ways (I still say this is general puppy obsession). Generally, he's great at our own local park where he knows the dogs and just trots around and we don't worry about him, but other places he seems overstimulated. The problems are that he marks in the house if another dog comes over/is boarded at daycare and that he is humpy occasionally (we have a 3 strike rule at the park with puppy timeouts). We live in the city, otherwise we probably wouldn't neuter him at all as I've seen older intact males and they are Gorrrgeous, but given our lifestyle it seems inevitable. 

When did everyone neuter their Vizsla and why, if early? I've read a lot of white papers stating cancer early/later on is the most common for them, and in fact, more behavioural problems have come from neutering early. So much information, and a little stressed about the decision.


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## tegee26 (Apr 25, 2018)

FWIW a local breeder, who's been breeding V's for decades now states on her web site 2-3 years if you purchase a V from her. I didn't purchase mine from her because she was 1+ years out on litters, but she does come highly recommended so she must be doing something right.

Mine is 11 months old right now and I am keeping him intact at least 2-3 years if not forever.


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## Bushclass (Jan 7, 2018)

They are purely muscle so it truly isn't surprising!


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

The neutering issue comes up a lot, and an informational sticky and even a recommendation might be in order.

Read these: https://healthypets.mercola.com/sit...2014/06/13/neutering-spaying-cancer-risk.aspx

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2014/06/visla-study-on-neutering-and-cancer.html

http://speakingforspot.com/blog/tag/neutering-vizsla/

I've had 3 Vizsla males over 25 years now, all non neutered. The evidence is pretty conclusive that neutering is linked to all sorts of cancers..to say nothing of the loss of vital hormones used in metabolism above and beyond fertility.

Your trainer is plain wrong as many of them are....the types of behaviors associated with testicles, such as marking and sniffing/inspecting other females is hardly reason to remove vital organs, and other behaviors like humping are more related to dominance issues, which are not caused by hormones. And in your dog, at 9 months is pre pubescent so the hormones aren't yet even a factor!. You should be working on discipline when he exhibits these, not neutering, the hormones are not yet a factor. 

If you find that he develops characteristics that are entirely unmanageable or intolerable....highly unlikely, he's a Vizsla after all, and they are not at all aggressive..then you can consider neutering..although I'd still go the training route... But to go make this decision even before experiencing a pubescent dog is just plain premature. Work on training, these are behavioral issues and if your trainer isn't up to the task, find one who is.


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## tegee26 (Apr 25, 2018)

gingerling said:


> The neutering issue comes up a lot, and an informational sticky and even a recommendation might be in order.
> 
> Read these: https://healthypets.mercola.com/sit...2014/06/13/neutering-spaying-cancer-risk.aspx
> 
> ...



+1....very well written. -Thank you for this information


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

While the breed temperament, should not have aggressiveness. If you have worked with rescue, or even some of the past posts on this forum. It can happen in the breed. It can raise its ugly head in any breed.

Nothing that the OP described, was anything to do with a aggressive nature. Just a young dog that needs to learn marking inside is off limits, and so is humping other dogs.

Dang Ranger has thought about humping another dog during play. He's probably 8 years old, and is neutered. A quick aaattt from me, made him stop. He knows if he hears that, his behavior is not acceptable. 

Lots of work will get you to that same point. Your dog is just younger, and it takes time to get them to listen with high distraction. 
Don't give up, or try a quick fix. Just keep working towards the behavior you want.


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## Gabica (Jan 20, 2018)

On the behavioral part (on top of the great summary above related to health concerns) i just seen a study recently that traditional neutering and spaying at an age when they are not fully mature may easily lead to conserving that status, and if a dog is in a fear phase u will probably end up with a fearful dog, if in a rebel one, with a rebellious one etc as you are removing the hormones needed to enable their mental growth as well.

Humping often is associated with sexual or dominance nature, however recent researches talk a lot about another factor, which is playfulness: the more playful a dog the more chance of humping other, mostly slower dogs or even toys (!) in the hope of getting a good speedy playtime. 

May you make the right decision for you and your pup, we all want to have physically and mentally healthy long living vizslas.


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## Bushclass (Jan 7, 2018)

Thank you all for the helpful insight! We're way more interested in waiting to neuter and after having a discussion and voicing our concerns with our trainer (who as we mentioned makes a niche in training "intact males"), she has agreed that eau natural is best and we will train through it. Because she is so pro-intact, it was just concerning she even mentioned thinking about neutering because we take her advice very seriously. 

So for those of you who have intact V's, what corrections do you use for when they mark or hump - @texasred, we also use "Ahhhhht" lol, and can generally see far in advance when he's setting up. He actually rarely humps, but when a dog attempts to hump him it sets him off and it begins a humping war. 

It's important to note we use an e-collar for recall training although we rarely have to use it, but have yet to use it for any other purpose. We are very happy Banjo's temperament is very even however he is very stubborn and he is NOT a cuddler (I think we got the only one in the world).

This white papers stuck with me in particular if anyone is interested are attached.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I use the samething for intact, or neutered. My past male was not neutered untill after he was 3 years old. I never had a problem with him trying to mark in the house. Its more of the individual dog, not whether they are intact.
I bring foster dogs of all ages into my home. A good many have probably never been indoor dogs. I keep a longer lead on them, while we work on no marking in my home. A quick sideways pull, and aatt lets them know its not cool.
Once they get the idea, they get more freedom.

I would not use a ecollar correction for humping another dog. That could quickly escalate into a dog fight.


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

Remember that V's are very sensitive and eager to please, so if you catch him marking inside, you want to get in his face and yell "NO!", so he "Gets it"..your displeasure....you can tell when it's "Just right" b/c he will immediately tuck his tail, bow his head, and probably flick the tip of his tail, maybe even roll over. Don't over do it or over correct.

Again, at 9 months, this isn't a hormonal thing just yet, so I'm concerned that the whole topic is somehow being raised by your trainer. Always use common sense with your dog, regardless of so called "experience" or self importance of the person giving the advice or recommendation. You know your dog much better than anyone else, so if someone..even someone with credibility and authority...suggests things that just don't seem right, do not do them. To me, a trainer who is "pro" or "anti" anything and makes that a part of the training is a trainer to be very wary of b/c their techniques and recommendations aren't so much the result of their understanding of you and your puppy, but rather some preconceived notions that they then apply to you.

In short, at 9 months, you train a dog..especially a Vizsla.. the same way and with the same techniques regardless of which genitalia they have and their absence or presence, what you see is not the result of hormones just yet.


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## Bushclass (Jan 7, 2018)

Thank you, I do think you're right on this one. 

We're just always open to others thoughts but in the end, we make our own decisions. 

The one thing I've alwayyyyyys been on the fence or paranoid about is correcting for using the bathroom inside.
I want to correct him if he lifts his leg inside but then I've heard people say they don't know they're being corrected for the "inside" part, only the peeing part?!

If it's worked for you and @texasred, and this is also what our trainer has also recommended I think the only option is to try. Wish I could just jump in that little brain of theirs. haha 

Again, he doesn't mark inside ours on a regular basis, it's only if another dog enters or we go to somewhere with a dog.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

The one thing I've alwayyyyyys been on the fence or paranoid about is correcting for using the bathroom inside.

In a way this is true.
I don't correct puppies, for accidents inside. Or even a dog that's feeling under the weather. 
I just look at marking a little differently. 
Its not a dog needing to use the restroom, and me missing the cues. 
Its a dog marking its territory. 
Outside mine can mark, and scratch the ground, slinging dirt till their hearts content. But inside, they get a light correction.


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

Who told you they don't understand the correction and what are they basing it on? 

If he does something he shouldn't and you offer an appropriate correction, I think that's the key..what they get is "I won't do that again!". Especially with V's who are just so smart and so eager to please.

So, if he goes in the house and you catch him..not later!...then a stern "NO!" delivered right to his face will work. The exceptions are puppies or if they're sick, in which case the problem is beyond their control.


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## Bushclass (Jan 7, 2018)

Just generally it's something you hear - it's very common to read online and a common statement made by people. I don't think its that they don't understand the correction in general, it's that they don't understand which PART they are being corrected for - Again, Not my opinion! I'm still unsure because I'm not in a dog's mind, just what "they say" lol. Give a quick google.

We're going to our fiends cottage this weekend and he's marked there before so I think I'll hover like a hawk for the first 20 and walk him around the house - if he lifts his leg I'm on it!


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

You know, you "Just" hear a lot of stuff that's based on anything and everything except the facts...neutering too, it's based on an insufficient understanding of the current facts. +1 for you and your guy that you question all you hear and not just blindly accept it.

Not to put too fine a point on it, your Vizsla will really know which part of it you are correcting if you are clear and consistent. Recall that everything else is just a dog, so take well intentioned advice from others accordingly.


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## Bushclass (Jan 7, 2018)

Yeah, I think we're going to just go that route - above all I agree that consistency is key always. And yes, we do like to do our research and make the final decision within our household. 
Thanks for your help and feedback @gingerling!


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