# Hard Puppy Decision



## mbdomby (Jan 29, 2012)

Hello,
I have a deposit on a pup with first pick of the females. I had planned to travel 1300 miles at 7 wks to pick my pup. I have had two Vs so I am not a newbie to the breed and their issues. The breeder says the puppy with the personality that I am looking for has two defective toes - missing toenails and tips of toes but otherwise normal. the breeder wants me to choose NOW between two females based on photos and her observation of personality. She says she needs to make flight arrangements for the remaining female that I don't pick and I need to choose now before I see them. I am struggling with choosing a pup with a defect and not being able to see for myself how she does with it. She offers to take the pup back if in the future there are problems but we all know how that will end after the pup is part of my family. 

Any thoughts from experienced V people? 
Thanks.


----------



## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

I'd be telling the breeder to hold on till you've seen them for yourself.


----------



## Aimless1 (Sep 25, 2011)

Indeed. You have first pick. YOUR option. If not, find another breeder.


----------



## veifera (Apr 25, 2012)

> She says she needs to make flight arrangements for the remaining female that I don't pick and I need to choose now before I see them.


So she has a magical buyer in some faraway land who (a) doesn't care that a puppy they get may or may not have a defect, and (b) is willing to have that puppy shipped sight unseen....

Meanwhile, you're willing to travel 1,300 miles to pick the puppy of the right temperament in person. Which means that you're the really responsible one and you care.

Something about this story reminds of buying a house through a realtor, who calls at the last minute to say there's a counter-offer just a tad higher than mine and I must decide now.....


----------



## SkyyMax (Apr 5, 2012)

Mbdomby - welcome to the forum!

I agree with Harrigab and Aimless1 - this is your decision, not the breeder.

2 problem toes could be just a birth defect and I do not want to alarm you, but any toes deformities could be the sign of inbreeding at some point. 

Is it the only puppy out of the litter with bad toes? 
If the breeder has 2 litter mates with a similar problem I would be looking for another breeder.


----------



## KB87 (Jan 30, 2012)

Something doesn't sound right here. If the breeder can't wait for you to make a selection when you get there then I'd be hitting the road. I wanted to simply see pictures of the remaining puppies the week before we were driving out to pick up our pup but our breeder refused and insisted that we wait to see the pups when we got there and then make our selection. If you're being pushed by the breeder over this then it sounds like they might REALLY push should you pick the puppy with the defect and actually have to take it back in the future. Just remember- there are a good number of great vizsla breeders out there. They may even be less than 1300 miles away.

Also, why wouldn't the breeder be able to make travel arrangements? If this person apparently isn't worried about what puppy they're getting and they know that you're coming at 7 weeks then they have a timeline to work with- it's just a matter of what pup they get.


----------



## DixiesMom (Feb 5, 2009)

I have to disagree with everyone else. I don't understand the immediate suspicion about the breeder's intentions. She has given you the choice of which pup you want, many breeders won't. If you are hesitant to take on the pup with the deformity then take the other one. The last thing that the breeder wants is to have someone out badmouthing them because they are dissatisfied with one of their pups.

BOTTOM LINE: If you are uncomfortable about purchasing a puppy from this person....DON'T DO IT.

BTW-"
_2 problem toes could be just a birth defect and I do not want to alarm you, but any toes deformities could be the sign of inbreeding at some point."_ Pretty much every pedigree out there will have "inbreeding" at some point, it is not the same as with humans.


----------



## mbdomby (Jan 29, 2012)

Thanks to all of you for the opinions. 

I have the pedigree and sire and dam have one common relative 4 generations back so I don't think inbreeding is an issue. The breeder thinks the pup may have been injured when the dam was cleaning the sac. She says the pup doesn't appear to walk any differently than the rest. She says she has been examined by her vet. 

I know that a lot of breeders pick for you but having had two of these quirky crazy dogs - one with temperament issues (from a top breeder) I really wanted to see for myself this time. I was really excited because I thought I had found a breeder that would allow it. Now I do have the option of driving out there this weekend at 6 wks. and picking but my husband has to work - not to mention 6 wks. is really too early for the pup.

Guess I'll ponder over another sleepless night. This sure takes the excitement out of the new puppy.


----------



## Aimless1 (Sep 25, 2011)

Do you have the Volhard scores for each pup?
http://www.volhard.com/pages/pat.php


----------



## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

A few things come to mind for me. 

First, any Pup with any deformity is now a bargain deal. Did the breeder offer 2/3 off the price, or are they expecting full payment for the physically defective puppy. I know it sounds callous, but it's a fact of breeding that things sometimes happen. Not as a result of inbreeding, but how a pup lies in the womb and many other things can be the reason of a deformed foot.

My background is for the dog to be able to perform afield. A deformed tail is one thing as it generally gets docked anyway here in the U.S. , a deformed foot quite another and highly probable of some level of impact in mobility. I would not buy this pup personally, and especially at a full price, regardless of pedigree.

Generally airlines won't ship a dog until a minimum of 8 weeks old, many times breeders will not ship a dog via air until 10-12 weeks old. Airlines won't even accept a dog until a maximum of 72 hours prior to flight time with finite temperature limits in the forecast, so setting up arrangements two weeks or more early isn't passing the sniff test. We won't release any pup until a minimum of 8 weeks, so I don't see the urgency for you to decide immediately, with the exception of seemingly heavy handed sales techniques by the seller. Like most animals, I tend to resist pressure so would probably just look for another litter altogether.

Don't know if that helps you at all, but wish you the best of luck!
Ken


----------



## mbdomby (Jan 29, 2012)

No Volhard scores for pups.

No, the breeder has not offered any kind of a discount. I feel it is not my place to ask - but hers to offer. I wondered how common it was for breeders NOT to offer discounts on defective puppies. I discussed this with a Springer breeder today who told me he always discounted pups that didn't look just right. I too thought the flight business was BS, knowing they couldn't fly until a minimum of 8 wks. 

Thank you so much for the advice. We shall see...


----------



## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

keep us posted mbdomby


----------



## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Run.... run away.....as fast as you can...... something smells fishy!!!


----------



## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

mbdomby said:


> No, the breeder has not offered any kind of a discount. I feel it is not my place to ask - but hers to offer. I wondered how common it was for breeders NOT to offer discounts on defective puppies. Thank you so much for the advice. We shall see...


Good breeders will offer a discount, and certainly if it's still a pup you want, the advantage of negotiation is yours. If they don't offer a discount - I would recommended making them a much reduced offer.

I recently rejected a Pup for a client that was born with a corkscrew tail. That dog will make a fine hunting dog but the tail will need to be docked short due to deformity. It will go to a good hunting/pet home for a third of the price, the breeder offering the discount.

All that aside, I think you are a bright person and already know the answer within you. Now you merely need to courage to demonstrate your decision.

Good luck!
Ken


----------



## tonimdkj (Sep 15, 2012)

My daughter is getting her pup from a breeder in the UK. This breeder's guarantee, if we can't satisfy you with a pup, your money will be refunded. I wouldn't buy from a breeder that used high pressure tactics. These dogs are expensive and you should get exactly what you want. Like one other person said, RUN!


----------



## VbarK Vizslas (Jan 31, 2012)

I had to hold 4 females for the gentleman who paid for his pup first. Anyone else who was interested in a female could pay for a pup but had to wait to pick their pup until the first guy picked his pup. I kind of knew which one he would pick by his description of what he wanted and what is lifestyle was but I kept my opinion to myself. The pup picked him and it was the pup that I had picked for him.  So wait till you can pick the pup you want.


----------



## mbdomby (Jan 29, 2012)

After getting a statement from the vet who cared for her foot, we took a gamble and we drove the 1300 miles to see the puppy. I had in mind I would just walk away if things didn't look right. As it turns out this puppy with the toe issue does have the personality I wanted so we scooped her up and took her home. She has full use of her foot and you wouldn't know anything was up unless you actually looked at it. My adult V is torn between lining her out and wanting to play. Baby sister thinks she's a bit fickle.

Having had two Vs with fear issues, I was really **** bent on getting one that didn't. This one loves everyone and doesn't seem to be afraid of anything. 
So far, so good


----------



## VbarK Vizslas (Jan 31, 2012)

Can't wait to see pics!!! Enjoy your puppy!!


----------



## doublemocha (Aug 28, 2012)

Mbdomby - I am pleased it worked out for you and that you make the decision to drive all that way. Enjoy your puppy


----------



## kiah (Sep 6, 2010)

Lots of good advice. As somone who has just had a litter and one pup "not right", I was able to put myself easily in the breeders shoes. I would not ask somone to pick a dog without seeing the dog if they wanted that.
But she also says she will take back any pup so you are covered.

Dont feel pressured. Remember, they are with us only a short time, but its such a precious time.
Suzy


----------

