# Got bitten while being submissive



## friendbeast (Aug 20, 2013)

Fenrir got bit at the park today. It is not too bad ( blood but no stitches). It was a really scary experience though! He and another dog walked up to each other, and Fenrir lied down and showed the other dog his belly. Without any growling or other warning, the other dog bit him. It seemed like forever before we got the separated. the other dog was a bulterrier mix. Owners said he has not done anything else like this before. I'm really surprised that the other dog bit him while he was completely submissive. Or am I reading this wrong? Fenrir just turned 6 months old.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I don't think your reading it wrong. Some dogs just don't follow the rules.


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## Watson (Sep 17, 2012)

Might get knocked for this, but here is a tip you can use going forward: keep your Vizsla away from bully breeds. In my experience, they don't do well together. I'm not going to lie, I don't like them, and especially don't like them near my dog.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

Watson said:


> Might get knocked for this, but here is a tip you can use going forward: keep your Vizsla away from bully breeds. In my experience, they don't do well together. I'm not going to lie, I don't like them, and especially don't like them near my dog.


I concur, for some reason the bull/staffy breeds take an instant dislike to my girl, she's not a submissive type, but off lead she's not fussed and leaves them alone, they do however tend to gravitate towards her quite aggressively.


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## FLgatorgirl (Mar 11, 2013)

I hate to say it, but I agree on the bully breeds. I grew up around plenty of awesome bulldogs and know a few now. I did not think I was prejudiced against them until there was a problem every single time one got around my girl. We have had similar issues with German Shepard and any kind of herding dog. I think maybe their energies are just too different. :-\


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## Vizsla Baby (Nov 4, 2011)

I agree about the bully breeds AND their owners!! 

We went to the dog park just a few minutes ago and when we got there there was a large male doberman and I just had a feeling.....

So, we went to the empty small dog side and sure enough the doberman came charging and snarling at the fence. We waited until he left and then assimilated onto the other side with the nice dogs.

Some people......and some dogs........


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## CrazyCash (Jul 12, 2012)

I have to stand up a little for the bully breeds - I hate when they get painted with such a wide brush and every dog that falls under "bully breed" is automatically thought of as aggressive and dangerous. Having owned a staffie in the past and my two current dogs probably have some staffie in them I get a little offended when people automatically think that they are aggressive because of the way they look. Just like any breed, if the owner isn't responsible you could have a dangerous dog on your hands. In fact, I've only been bitten by one dog in my life and it was a miniature schnauzer. I think the important thing to remember is that before you let your dog loose with another dog, make sure you introduce them correctly and I would want to know or at least meet the owner before I just assume the dogs will get along. That being said - even though I've owned a bully breed in the past doesn't mean that I just automatically give them a pass and assume that they are all harmless, it all has to do with how they are raised / trained. Unfortunately, many people that own these types of dogs don't socialize them properly or supervise them and that's where the trouble comes in. 

My staffie was a fantastic dog and lived 16 long years and believe it or not he never attacked anyone his entire life.


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## emilycn (Jul 30, 2013)

CrazyCash said:


> it all has to do with how they are raised / trained. Unfortunately, many people that own these types of dogs don't socialize them properly or supervise them and that's where the trouble comes in.


well said, cash. it often seems like a classic third-variable problem with the bully breeds. many times, it's the people behind the dog that are responsible for the dog's behavior issues, not behavior issues inherently due to the breed.

That being said, i've noticed that some dogs don't seem to mesh well with lua's energy. it's almost like Vs and some other dogs just don't speak the same doggie language.


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

I would have been so upset if that happened to my 6 month old.

I can't pretend to know enough about dog behavior to figure that one out. I would have to agree that some dogs don't play by the rules. Not all dogs are balanced and regulated. 

I also am not against the 'bully breeds.' That being said, I don't like Oso playing with dogs that play a certain way. When I went to the dog park, I would spend time watching all the dogs before going in and make sure Oso stayed away from certain dogs once inside. 

In fact, outside a dog park is an EXCELLENT place to train your pup. You can not bring treats inside of the dog park, but outside you can train your dog in a high distraction area with treats. You can also observe behavior in the park and enter when you see there are few dogs, playing in a balanced manner. 

When Oso was a puppy, he attracted negative attention from a lot of dogs due to his insanely high energy. It got better when he got older.


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

oh and I really dislike the statement about it being the owners, not the dog. I think you give the owners WAY too much credit. 

Most owners are not perfect dog trainers and most dogs have instinctual drives relevant to their breed. I see lots of herding dogs snapping at Oso's feet and wanting to chase and I see small dogs yapping. I also see more bully breeds playing in a manner which is too aggressive for my comfort level. I do think it has something to do with the breed. But playing aggressively is different than what happened in the OP. 

My BIL has two pitbulls who have the same owner, but act differently. I don't think that is uncommon. Did I mention that vizslas tend to be crazy hyper and do zoomies (despite any training on my part). 



Whil


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## emilycn (Jul 30, 2013)

luv2laugh said:


> oh and I really dislike the statement about it being the owners, not the dog. I think you give the owners WAY too much credit.
> 
> Most owners are not perfect dog trainers and most dogs have instinctual drives relevant to their breed.


i realize that many breeds are bred to DO something --- herding, nose work, pointing, flushing, pulling carts, retrieving, etc. --- and it's perfectly normal that they display those behaviors. but my thinking in saying it's the owners is this:

Bully breeds (and shepherds, terriers, hunting dogs, etc) are expected to exhibit certain types of behaviors (pointing, flushing, guarding, vermin-chasing, retrieving, etc). And bully types have come to be associated with aggression and violence the same way dalmatians have come to be associated with firehouses and golden retrievers are expected to be great with kids. Although the stereotypes aren't always accurate, people buy into them anyway. So people who get a dog as a guard, or to appear tough, or to intimidate others, are often attracted to breeds based on certain stereotypical qualities (like aggression in bully breeds). So the people get a dog based on a stereotype and don't give any consideration to socialization, proper obedience, etc, and the dogs often turn out ill-behaved or without learning bite inhibition, or sadly, deliberately aggressive and dangerous. 

So yes, although breeds have particular traits, owners are responsible for making that dog a good canine citizen, if you will. So in my opinion, barring the individual dog having a complete screw loose (i've known a few, and they are the dangerous ones that just snap for no discernible reason), it's the owner's responsibility to make sure the dog knows that unprovoked aggression toward people or other dogs is intolerable.


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## Watson (Sep 17, 2012)

While it's sometimes the owners, I often notice it's the dog itself. 
You cannot deny what is in a dog's DNA. Take a look at what a dog was bred for, and more times than not you will see these traits. Not every Vizsla will hunt, however most have it woven deep in their DNA.

Our V is not bouncy at all, in fact he is extremely cautious at first and always susses out a situation. However the reaction he gets from certain breeds has been the same every single time. To not risk it, I always avoid these breeds. My husband will usually ask if the dog is friendly first, and nine times out of ten, the owner thinks their dog is friendly, when in fact they are not at all friendly with other dogs. Probably perfectly fine with humans, since the intention was never to breed dogs that were human aggressive.


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## Chaos911 (Oct 30, 2013)

This is why I'm not a fan of dog parks. And was happy to hear the same from our V's breeder. Will take my chances elsewhere with Blaze.


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## friendbeast (Aug 20, 2013)

In this specific case I think it was DNA. We spoke to the owners later the afternoon (we exchanged numbers) The dog was socialised, and not trained for attack in any way. 
While all those breeds can make great, loving dogs, some individuals of those breeds would be more prone to this kind of attack. 
Normally I do keep him away from unknown dogs. This afternoon we were walking with three other dogs he gets knows (and their owners), and this family passed our group. 

I'm so upset about the whole thing, and I worried that he may develop some fearful behaviours around other dogs. 
He is the sweetest dog. He was still friendly and wagging is tail at the vet office when he was getting checked out.


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## Hunter.IT (Nov 20, 2013)

Hey there, 

My boy is 6 month too, wow this is interesting, the one and only dog that always gets in a fight with my V is a Bull Terrier! I guess they just have different energy! I usually try to avoid the that dog! 
Also there is a French Bulldog that always wants to dominate my boy!


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

This is just my 2 cents on the subject.

I don't let my dogs play with pits. Not because I consider them bad dogs, or think they are more aggressive than some of the other breeds. It is because of the amount of damage they are capable of inflecting. 
As for the DNA vs. owner comments.
That's really does not even matter to me.
The power in their jaws makes a vizsla, and just about every other dog no match for them in a dog fight. Who knows when your vizsla might decide the Pit needs a swift correct during play, and is it worth your dogs life?
I've seen where a sweet to people pit, ripped the hind leg off a beagle at the hip. 

It would be like buying a herding dog, and then getting mad because it likes to herd. Its a trait that was bred into the breed.


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## Rebelbnkr (Oct 30, 2013)

My boy Duke is turning 5 months in two days. On New Years Eve, we went to our morning play with a Beagle at the dog park here in St. Augustine, FL. As they were playing, out of nowhere, a pit bull charged Duke. Duke rolled over and the pit bull still bit him on the head. The owner pulled him off just in time before I was going to kick his dog. Duke had a tooth scratch on top of his head and a puncture wound on his lip. Took him to the vet who said he was really lucky. Got some antibiotics and Duke seems to be fine.
I have not been back to the dog park and definitely will watch out for this guy to present him with my vet bill.


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## FLgatorgirl (Mar 11, 2013)

Friendbeast--

First, I have to ask, are you a fan of the Oatmeal? That is the only other place I have seen the term "friendbeast" ;D. 

I don't think all bully breeds are bad and in fact have known a number of very sweet bulldogs and bully mixes. I was in fact attacked (totally unprovoked and with no warning) requiring a ER visit by a pit/lab mix and I still don't think all bullys are bad. However, every single bully breed that has been around our girl has been a problem. I think their energies and play styles are just totally different. As TexasRed said, there is also the ability to inflict a lot of damage should anything escalate. It is not worth the risk. We don't play with German Shepards either as we have had issues with them as well. 

Most all of the bully mixes that came to our dog park would end up clearing the park. The dogs were too dominant or borderline aggressive in their play style and everyone would leave. They may have been great dogs and great owners, but it was not the right mix with the other dogs. We only visited the dog park when she was around 6 months old and had a great core group that we met with every day. One too many times a random dog showed up that was problematic, so we stopped going before anything bad happened. I realize now that we were lucky and the dog park was probably not a good choice on my part.


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

I've loved dogs since I was a little girl and have read a lot about different breeds, dog behavior, etc. I don't think there is anything inherently bad about "bully breeds" or their owners, and I have known several sweet, loving pits who wouldn't hurt a fly. Still, I would never own a pit bull.

It's not because they are bad dogs, or because they have bad owners. It is simply a physical issue. Any reference to "bull" in a breed name most often means the dog was bread for bull baiting/fighting. This means that these dogs are bred not just to bite, but to latch on and not let go. This is combined with incredibly powerful jaws. The dogs are simply bred to inflict damage.

That being said, my Vizsla is probably more likely to bite another person or dog than my friend's sweet pit bull. However, in the unlikely event that my V was to bite somebody, it would most likely be a quick snap. In the unlikely event the pit bit someone, the pit would probably latch on and hold with those crazy-strong jaws. In fact, if I remember correctly, if you look at actual dog bite statistics, the most common breeds to bite people are golden retrievers, labs, chihuahuas, etc. However, if you look at bites that inflicted serious injury or death, the bite leaders are pits, german shepards, dogs like that. 

That being said, when on our walks, my Vizsla HATES little yappy dogs. I think he would eat on if given the chance!


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## friendbeast (Aug 20, 2013)

FLgatorgirl - I love The oatmeal. That is exactly what Inspired this name.
Here is a link to the specific comic fof the guys who have not read it. Sad and funny at the same time.
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/dog_paradox

Whether the reputation of these breeds are deserved or not, I'm going to err on the side of caution and not let my guy go near them again


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## FLgatorgirl (Mar 11, 2013)

Friendbeast--

Haha!! I LOVE the Oatmeal too! Not everyone gets the humor, but most all of his cartoons make me crack up laughing. I have wanted to post some of the links on Facebook, but a number of peopleI know would find a lot of it offensive. :


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## Vizsla Baby (Nov 4, 2011)

The problem with "bully breeds" is you just don't know the owners or the dogs unless they are close friends. That's why people are afraid or wary of them. 

Odds are that they have a crappy owner. Better safe than sorry!


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

This happened quite some time ago when Dharma was younger but it still gave me quite a scare. I had just let her off the leash in our local park.(not a dog park). We came in contact with an older lab cross? Dharma had never met Joey before. Usually Dharma will either be submissive or play well. This time she was submissive and I think he bit her tummy. She ran screaming back through the lane and across the street and I found her cowering between our house and car shaking. I was sick to my stomach while running to try to find Dharma. Man she just bolted. Since then I have been very wary of any dog interactions or letting her off the leash.


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## Hbomb (Jan 24, 2012)

Poor Fenrir (I love his name by the way!) It's horrible when your dog gets hurt by another dog. Dogs are tough though and he should bounce back! When H was a puppy he got a nasty, completely unprovoked bite by a jack russell terrier above his eye. Despite this it didn't seem to cause him any damage with regards to fear, etc. I understand all dogs are different though. I think a good thing to do would be to take Fenrir on a playdate with a nice friendly dog that you know so he knows that all dogs aren't bad!

Regarding different breeds/energies etc, I agree that H seems to get on better with some breeds than others. I wouldn't go so far as to avoid a particular breed though- if it is on a lead, I put him on a lead however. If he doesn't like the look of a dog he runs off. I've found he gets on ok with staffs- he likes to play quite rough with one at our dog class and the two of them tire each other out in no time. I've found collies in particular don't seem to like him and may growl/snap at him for no reason.

Usually if he gets 'told off' it's his own fault for being a pain in the arse. But I wouldn't like it if a dog went for him when he was on his back.


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