# Separation Anxiety?



## dextersmom

Dexter has been having some weird episodes in his crate lately, which I'm thinking are due to separation anxiety, but I'm really not sure. He hated being alone/being crated as a pup but we put in a LOT of work and for the past year, he's done great in his crate for the most part. He goes in on his own, settles nicely, etc. We've always had to follow a specific routine before crating him though or he gets upset and barks (usually 15 minutes max). He does fine as long as he knows it's coming - he just doesn't like no warning that he's about to be crated. He's been crated consistently every day since we brought him home.

In the past two weeks, he's had three episodes of kind of like panicking in his crate. The first episode was weird, but I think he got set off barking because he could hear a neighbor's dog. (I usually turn on a floor fan for him to muffle noises, but it was cold that night.) I tried to ignore him after reminding him "bedtime" several times. I checked on him again and he had dumped over his water bowl. He's done that once or twice in the past and REALLY gotten upset over it too. He really doesn't like being wet unless he's in water, so that's a big trigger for him. He ended up sleeping in bed with me that night, because he was just too upset to go back and settle in his crate. 

He did fine for the rest of that week, etc. in his crate. This past weekend, he started barking again Saturday night for no apparent reason. We checked on him a couple of times, but everything seemed fine (other than him barking). It seemed like he kind of whipped himself up in a frenzy though, and eventually started drooling, etc. We let him out to potty, let him calm down on the couch, and tried crating him again. Immediately he lost it, even though he was pretty much asleep on the couch a minute before. So... we let him in bed with us again. He just seems to be so panicked (it's not like his occasional I'm-mad-at-you barking). He was crated for a couple hours the next day and did fine. Sunday night, the same thing happened. My husband sat outside the door and kept reminding him "bedtime" and "hush", etc. He would stop momentarily every time he gave a command, but you could hear him almost hyperventilating between barking. We got him quiet (but could hear his very labored and upset breathing) and then let him out for the night.

Does that sound like separation anxiety? I can't figure out what else would be setting him off. He was awful to crate train, but has been fine with his crate for over a year now. I know for a fact he's quiet while we're at work and obviously at night. I'm not opposed to letting him sleep in our room uncrated at night, but I don't want it to carry over during the day as well. Maybe he just needs the extra cuddle time? I'm just a bit torn as I know not to reward bad behavior by letting him out of the crate, but I also don't want to keep him in there if he's so upset that he's drooling, digging, etc. and things he never does at any other time. I can't figure out if he's playing me to get let into bed - I would think that's the case but he rarely gets upset over anything and he's really beside himself. 

Any thoughts? I know if we keep letting him into bed at night, he's going to stay there. (Which wouldn't be the worst thing, but he's still a bit destructive even at night, chewing on blankets, trying to shred stuff, etc). When we move or go on vacation, he does panic like this the first night and we don't give in. He's then fine for the rest of the trip, etc. And we have let him in bed every once in a while before, and he has no problem being crated the next night (or later that same night, if we've had too much blanket shredding happening to get sleep!). 

I guess I'm having a hard time figuring out if I should stay strong and let him work it out, or if I'm doing the right thing by giving in and keeping him from panicking in his crate.


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## emilycn

A few questions:
How's his exercise routine lately?
Is he getting bored in his crate?
What happened the other few nights you mentioned---was the fan not on then too?
Where is his crate? (I think I remember you guys keeping it outside the bedroom, right?)
When you go out of town and crate him, where is his crate?
Have you tried putting a "ripe" t-shirt or pillow case in there with him?
Is it possible you've got a mouse, or maybe some extra-large cockroaches that are stirring him up?
Might there be fleas biting him in his crate?
Have you tried one of those stuffed animals with the heartbeat thing?
Has he suddenly become afraid of the dark? 
Have you checked your carbon monoxide detector batteries lately?
Is there anything that would be leaking gas?
Do you have a poltergeist? 

That's all I can think of for now... I will continue to brainstorm


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## dextersmom

Hahahaha maybe yes on the poltergeist - we do have a "grey ghost" (aka weim) who sleeps in there at night now too! She quite happily sleeps through all his antics (LOVE that girl). She doesn't make a peep or get up at night, so I don't think she's bothering him at all though. She's been in his bedroom with him for at least two months now. The first time it happened I thought he was alerting me to check on her or something, but she was sleeping.

Let me see... exercise routine has been the same. An hour in the morning and an hour at night + mental work/yard play time for the rest of the evening. We moved/pup came home almost 3 months ago. Exercise and routine was disrupted then quite a bit, because they had to be exercised separately until she finished her boosters and he wasn't going to daycare. She finished those about 3 weeks ago and so his old routine is back in full force. (Hmm... maybe we're on to something there timing wise.) He's been sharing his park time with her for the past two weeks. So he's getting in just as much running as ever, but not all the one on one attention. We do put her to bed earlier than him though, so he gets his special snuggle time! (Only a V, haha.)

I don't think he's getting bored in his crate, as he's fine during the day so far. He also doesn't touch his Kong on these nights (which he usually sucks down first thing) and seems too upset to bother with it.

He is crated in another bedroom (not ours). Even as a pup, he gets most upset if he can see us but can't touch us. He settles fine if you're out of sight, but even now we have to stay out of sight when he's crated. We tried the crate in the bedroom thing and it just made it worse. Same when we travel - crate is in another room. I think he just panics when we travel that we're going to abandon him in a strange place. Then by day 2 when he realizes we're still around, he's cool with it.

Fan was on the other two nights. Kept his routine normal. We used to keep an old t-shirt with him but we started suspecting he was starting to eat pieces of it a couple months ago and took it away. He seemed to do fine with that so I figured he grew out it. But I'm going to try giving him one of the hubby's tonight! It really did help him when we started crate training.

And we DO have a stuffed pup with a heartbeat, haha. (Well, and the real one ) We bought it for our weim pup, who loves her crate and never needed it. He's gotten it from her a couple of times and tried to shred it  So that won't work! And if the real breathing pup next to him doesn't help...  Maybe I'll also try our bottle of DAP spray again.

It could be that a fly is bothering him. He's a little OCD about hunting them down in the house. But that room is dark when he goes to bed (since pup is already in there) and the rest of the house is lit up, so I doubt they'd be in that part of the house.

It does seem to me like he's become afraid of the dark!! Haha. Maybe the pup snores and scares him? She's so quiet you usually don't realize she's in there. It does sound like his "something's wrong" bark which then escalates. But I can't find anything wrong!! Maybe I better check the attic above their room...


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## dextersmom

Hahaha the pup does have a lot of gas since we put her on his food... maybe the smell scares him!? Tell me that's not it, LOL


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## emilycn

I wonder what would happen if you got an extra super large crate and let them sleep together in it. I'd suggest just shutting the bedroom door, but he sounds like the kind of pup that would scratch up the walls if left to his own devices. What about a thunder shirt? Your poor little girl is probably like "dude. shut it. i'm trying to sleep here." Cause if it was something wrong, I feel like she'd be agitated too. 

But seriously. Check the CO2 detectors, any wires that might be in the room, or anything else dogs might notice that we wouldn't. You always hear stories about dogs saving people from stuff they had no idea was wrong.


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## emilycn

I don't know... maybe he prefers to have his own room? Or maybe she just reeks. What happens if you crate them in different rooms?


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## R E McCraith

Dex - on SA - sometimes !!!!!!!! 2 fingers of Bourbon neat - 4 U - ignore the pup - if not - you are in the back of the orchestra - and your pup is conducting !!!!!!


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## dextersmom

emilycn said:


> I wonder what would happen if you got an extra super large crate and let them sleep together in it. I'd suggest just shutting the bedroom door, but he sounds like the kind of pup that would scratch up the walls if left to his own devices. What about a thunder shirt? Your poor little girl is probably like "dude. shut it. i'm trying to sleep here."


We did upgrade Dex's crate to an XL last week because he couldn't sit up any more without ducking his head  But sadly, he's too much of a bully to her to share! She jumped on him once when he was sleeping and that did NOT go over well (fair enough). They love each other, but are not snuggle buddies just yet. And yes, he'd freak if he wasn't crated. That's part of the reason I'm so concerned - we have NO alternative to him being crated during the day. The pup doesn't really seem to help him at all. It's definitely us he wants - not her :-\ If he keeps up, we'll try moving her out for a night next. She does great in our room, unlike him. And I'm SURE she'd appreciate some peace and quiet. That pup is a saint!! 

He's been kind of on edge all night, even after a special solo jog with just my husband (his BFF). Occasionally acting like he's hunting a fly behind the TV, but then gives up (there isn't one). And really worried about the airplanes/train noises which I haven't noticed him caring about before. 



R said:


> Dex - on SA - sometimes !!!!!!!! 2 fingers of Bourbon neat - 4 U - ignore the pup - if not - you are in the back of the orchestra - and your pup is conducting !!!!!!


Well, we'll see how it goes tonight! Good thing we just visited Woodford...  We do let him kind of panic it out when we travel, and he's never been so traumatized that he couldn't be crated again. So I don't know why I feel like it's different now! Maybe it's because our house is smaller and I can hear him better, haha.


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## emilycn

Well, on the plus side, it sounds like he doesn't have any issues with the crate during the day---so don't freak out just yet about not having any option for him during the day. It is a bit weird that he seems so on edge---I can't really imagine why. Over-tired maybe? Feeling sick, maybe? Notice any ouchies?

If you can't figure anything out that might be bothering him, I love RE's suggestion.


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## R E McCraith

Dex - the only time I go back 2 school !!!!!! is when Woodford Reserve has the class on how 2 pair Bourbon 2 Chocolot !!!


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## texasred

I would go with REMs suggestion, and just see how it goes. You know he is going to bark and see if you will let him out the first night, so I would remove the water. He doesn't need to get wet and have a reason to keep barking. Once he has done well for a few nights, you can return the water.

Lucy did the same thing to me a couple of years ago. She woke up during the middle of the night whining, and I let her out to potty. As soon as we returned inside the house she tore off for the bedroom. I was tired and let her spend the rest of the night with us. Two nights later same thing happen. So I was not surprised to be woken up by Lucy barking at 1AM in the morning the next night. This time when I let her out of the crate to potty, she ran straight for the bedroom. I promptly took her outside, and then straight back to the crate. Next night same thing happened, and straight back to the crate. She quit waking me up after 2 nights of not being able to get in bed with us. Dex may or may not be doing it for the same reason Lucy was, but you won't find out if he gets to keep getting in your bed.


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## dextersmom

These dogs are too smart, haha. Dexter was totally playing us last night. I put him to bed and about 15 minutes later, he started crying. Weird, because he hardly ever whines (just an assortment of other, louder noises ) Then when that didn't work, cue the barking! This was much more like his I'm-mad-at-you bark. He barked for a little over an hour but never sounded as worked up as the last two nights. We completely ignored him (usually we remind him "bedtime" and he gives up and settles) and that worked fine. 

The removing the water suggestion was great. That made me stress less, because I truly do feel bad for him when he gets his bed wet (it's so distressing to him). The only upsetting part was that the pup was stuck in there with him while he was barking and I felt bad for her! We might move her out tonight, but I'd like to give him one more night to see if he's over it. 

On the plus side, he's at daycare today so he gets a break from the crate. She's at home, but probably so tired from the noisy night that she's enjoying a peaceful nap!


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## jld640

You might also consider if your heater is starting at night due to the season. The click-click-click pop whoosh of natural gas or the smell of the burning dust from first few electric heater runs of the season can be disconcerting. 

If it's that identifiable, then just turning the thing on a few times during the day might just remind him of the sounds from last year. You might also check to see if his crate is near an air vent where the sounds/smells might be more perceptible.


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## dextersmom

jld640 said:


> You might also consider if your heater is starting at night due to the season.
> 
> You might also check to see if his crate is near an air vent where the sounds/smells might be more perceptible.


That exact thought went through my head last night. We did just start turning on the heat, and we are in a new house, so the sounds are new. I completely forgot to check where the vents are this morning - so thank you for reminding me! I think he really was genuinely upset about something the first time or two, but then was just testing the waters after that.


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## dextersmom

Just a couple grumbles last night and he was out cold! He was also especially exhausted after day care 

He doesn't seem to be worried about the sounds from the heater. He was on alert all last evening, which was odd. There has been a fly in the house for the past day or so we haven't been able to get though, so I know that's part of it. He's always looking behind the TV for it even though it's not there. I can't figure out why he's fixated on that spot!?

Also wondering if maybe the pup is getting him wet at night. When he got a bigger crate, their crates got pushed a little closer together. She often plays in her water bowl and has a little puddle under it. If she splashed him on accident when he was sleeping that *really* would have pissed him off. I'm going to move her bowl to the other side of her crate just in case! I swear, if I hadn't seen the condition she was raised in, I would have thought she was born in a pig sty. She is SO messy!


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## dextersmom

Well, the barking and drooling is back :-[ He was doing it when my husband got home from work yesterday. I think he was barking when I left yesterday morning too. Thursday mornings he gets an extra long run and park time because I go into work late. He ran his guts out and was exhausted. He only got in maybe a half hour of nap time/snuggle time before I left for work. So I know it's not an energy thing. He could barely keep his eyes open.

He barked when we tried to go to bed last night, but hushed when I sat outside the door for a while. Their fan blows kind of out the door, so I'm sure he can get my scent really easily. Then woke up about 3:30am and started all over again. My husband let him out because I'm sick and he really wanted me to get some sleep. So much for that, haha, as I made him crate him again. Had to force him into the crate as he was upset, but quieted when I slept outside the door for a bit. At least he's getting better about calming himself back down.

Ditto for this morning. If I'm outside the door until he falls asleep, he seems to be able to snap out of it. If I'm not, he just spirals out of control with the barking. It does seem to be a separation thing to me? He doesn't do it every time he's crated, or for the entire period he's crated, but it's definitely becoming a habit. I didn't end up putting a t-shirt in with him because he'd been doing better, but I will definitely try that tonight.

I don't know what to do other than try and ride it out  I feel like I'm crate training an 18 month old all over again (I thought they got easier?!). I'm so sick right now, I feel like just boarding him this weekend to catch up on some sleep. But I know he barks at night there, so that's not going to help break his habit at all. 

Anyone want a red dog? Anyone? :-\


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## texasred

Have you thought of getting him a thunder shirt, or one of the scents that help calm dogs. It sounds like your just going to have to try some trial and error, to help him get it figured out.


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## dextersmom

I've never considered a thunder shirt before (but he was also fine before, haha) but I am now. He does like to be wrapped up tightly when he gets worked up. We have the DAP spray and it doesn't seem to work for him. I might try some lavendar oil. We're going to the vet tomorrow for boosters, so I'm going to see if there's a supplement or light sedative we can try and see if we can break the cycle


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## Canadian Expy

To help me get through an anxiety issue I used a thunder shirt (it is actually the camo polo version) and Bach's Rescue Remedy (you can Google it). 3 drops on a biscuit in the am, 3 crops on a biscuit in the pm. They helped take the edge off so that I could work on the anxiety issues. The combo worked tremendously in our case.


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## miru

Hello DexterMom,
Sorry you are going through all this and sorry for Dex too!
I recently experienced a "fear issue" with 5 month Leo and I realized they are much more difficult to deal with then any other issues.

But i would like to ask a stupid question: Why is crating so important?
He seems to dislike it a lot it gives him something like an attachment trauma behaviour (all that barking and drooling and anxious breathing...)
I don't ask this with a judgemental intent but I never crated Leo(in fact he crates himself happily in the car for two hours every day) and I wonder if this is a sort of developmental hazard.

I wish you can have better days and nights and that you enjoy your dog's company 
Miru


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## dextersmom

Hi Miru,

Not a stupid question! His problem is he doesn't like being alone... whether he's in the crate or not. It's not so much the crate itself. It's just that if we let him out, he gets to be with us, so he stops being upset. The crate is actually really helpful in that regard, since it gives him kind of a space to settle. He knows he can't get out, so he accepts that and is able to relax. If left alone in a room, he'd be one of those dogs that would chew down a door to get out. For a while we tried baby-gating him in the hallway in our bedroom that led to the bathroom at night so he would get to sleep in our room on a bed (but not ours). He couldn't even handle that 

He's also very destructive in terms of chewing/shredding so crating him is for his safety as well. I hated crate training, but we didn't really have an alternative because I was sure he'd hurt himself otherwise. Not to mention what our house would look like  

He's gotten a lot less destructive as he's gotten older, so now we'd consider letting him sleep with us (we also have a bigger bed now, haha), but his crate needs to continue to be his safe space, as he'd be totally lost without it and he does need to be OK with being alone!


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## dextersmom

miru said:


> I wish you can have better days and nights and that you enjoy your dog's company


And thank you! Me too


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## dextersmom

Two quiet nights so far!  The vet gave us a week's worth of ProQuiet to hopefully break his cycle of barking in the crate. The meds are basically just a dose of L-tryptophan (the same stuff that makes you sleepy after eating turkey at Thanksgiving). It seems to help a lot. They also suggested trying a Thundershirt if this doesn't solve the problem. Dex got to run with a bunch of other red dogs all day at a gun club this weekend, so he was in heaven. Let's hope it's just what he needed!


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