# When playing becomes anger



## amitai (Jun 14, 2012)

Hello All. I think I've spent dozens of hours reading these forums both before and after getting my pup. I know this topic has come up often, recently as well, and the usual response is: it's a puppy! 

I beg your indulgence and would appreciate your responses despite this being in a similar vein as other conversations. I don't know what the right approach is and I'm worried about my pup.

I'd like to ask for advice regarding a specific situation I've been facing for about two weeks.

Edom is 14 weeks old (she still has her shark teeth), we live in Tel Aviv and she's an urban Vizsla. She has met hundreds of people of all colors and sizes, some that squeal with glee to see her, some that ignore her, etc. She has also met dozens, if not more, dogs. 

Edom plays with dogs on a daily basis, she rides city buses at least once a week, she's great on car rides, both short and long, just sleeping in the backseat or calmly sitting and smiling at the world. 

About two weeks ago she was at the park in the evening and playing with Otto, a huge and very patient doberman. Otto can easily shove her entire head into his mouth (and has done so, but in a nice way..) 

Edom is not afraid of any dogs nor any people. She thinks the world should be as thrilled as she is to greet everyone at any opportunity.

Two weeks ago, she was playing with Otto, and was going at it with him. He is very patient and let's her do whatever she wants to him, until he gets tired of her, and just puts his huge paw on top of her and holds her down. She was playing with him and she was getting more and more feisty. 

Since this wasn't her first interaction with him, I didn't think much of it, and just thought she was being especially rambunctious, but it got to the point where Edom latched onto Otto's lip or neck and was biting him and it wasn't a game for her anymore, she was very frustrated with him, and then she started yelping hysterically and biting him. He start running with her latched on.

Picture squealing hysterical Vizsla puppy suspended in the air attached to the face/neck of a huge running doberman for 20 seconds. :-\

I thought at the time that Edom got a tooth stuck on his metal collar, but in hindsight, I have a feeling that she lost control and was the one biting him. It was a very unpleasant experience and really the only major negative experience she's had with anything. 

Ever since this happened, she's been very very rough in her games with other dogs. She plays with dogs of different sizes and ages all the time, and what starts as normal puppy biting game, her favorite, becomes Edom getting really angry and going for the other dog's neck or lip, biting very hard, and even when the other dog cries a bit, she doesn't stop. I know her well enough to know when the game becomes more than a game and she's snapping and biting and being relentless and neither dog is enjoying the experience. 

She does it to big dogs, small dogs, young dogs, older dogs. 

My question is, what should I do when this happens? 

With Otto, I tried to let them work it out, and it didn't end well. 

With the other dogs, their owners look at us and are not pleased that my Vizsla puppy is ripping into their otherwise benevolent dog/pup and it is an unpleasant situation. I am afraid she'll do it to the wrong dog and that they'll bite back.

What I've done so far is stopped the interaction, either forcing Edom to physically separate from the dog and take a break, sit for a minute, or when it was really almost out of control, picking her up.

When she gets into these fits of biting the other dog's neck to the point of them becoming very uncomfortable or crying and I pull her off, she bites in all directions and has a really hard time controlling herself, also biting me in the process. She snaps like she's gonna keep biting hard at all costs and won't stop going for the other dog's face or neck relentlessly unless I take her off. She doesn't care if they're crying, if they're being submissive, if they're trying to fight back, she is just focused on biting them. 

What is the most appropriate response when her playing becomes intense angry biting like this? :-[


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

Tinchy Spider in this pic was a tyrant to my Ruby all during our break away, Ruby was pretty much the same as Otto, trying not to make a big deal of it...but Tinchy Spider made the mistake of pushing it to far and trying to pinch Ruby's breakfast whilst Rubes was still at the trough, Rubes gave her an obligatory growl and Tinchy Spider took no notice, Rubes then gave her a curled lip and growl, still the little pirahna came for more...Rubes must've thought "sod this for a game of soldiers" and gave her a nip, little tyrant ran off as though it had been mortally wounded, Truly Scrumptious, stood up (tyrants sister from an earlier litter), and Fen, laid down (tyrant and Trulys mum) both wagged their tails at Rube's actions. Tinchy Spider played nicely with Ruby for the rest of the break away


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## veifera (Apr 25, 2012)

I had a somewhat similar situation when my puppy was very young - most of the dogs she played with were super tolerant and treated her like expensive china. 

The issue is setting and enforcing boundaries and she clearly needs an "explanation" from another dog. 

And the challenge is two-fold:
- a dog that will actually play with her as opposed to tolerating her puppy antics
- one or two dogs maximum so it doesn't become a traumatic experience

I was extremely lucky because a friend of mine has two dogs one of whom is 8 months old (versus my 3 or 4 months old, her age at the time). So the younger dog wanted to play a lot with my puppy and she delivered two of the three corrections in the middle of the play.


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

I have to start this by saying, I am NO expert and I'm glad you posted. My first thought is to try to find a precursor behavior and stop Edom at this point. Is there anything you can notice before Edom starts to get into that crazy mode?

My guess is that once she is in the "zone" it is more difficult or impossible for her to learn. I don't know if this is correct, but my instinct would be to calmly and assertively make a "no" noise as soon as you either A) see the precursor or B) the first wild behavior. Within 2 seconds of that sound grab Edom by the collar and walk her out of the park calmly to your car or a far distance. Put her into a sit/down and then wait a few minutes until she is entirely calm. Run her through a few sit/down/high five (any tricks she knows) and make sure she is out of the zone and compliant before returning to play with the other doggies. You could always explain this to the other owners before hand and warn them that you may do this if it is uncomfortable. If you can't get Edom within 2 seconds of saying "no," get yourself into position and I'm assuming she will continue the behavior, say "no" or your "no sound" and then calmly and assertively remove. 

As I said, I am by no means an expert. Best of luck and iIm sure you'll get other strategies from other forum members as well.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

14 weeks old is still a little young for any over the top correction. However it doesn't mean that you should let it go on.
Next time it happens pick her up off the ground,carry her a distance away, put her leash back on her, and walk her back to the spot of her transgression and make her stay at the heel.
After a bit let her play with the leash attached and the moment she starts getting to wild bring her back to heel and start again.
In all honesty though I doubt Otto was too traumitized,and he would be a good candidate, owner willing, to curb this behavior before she gets much bigger and stronger.

Now for a bit of advice.
You are the control element, the leader, the boundry setter. It is up to you to correct her and discipline her. Don't wait for another dog to make a "natural correction", it may not happen. You step in to establish the acceptable boundries and behavior.
The correction has to be quick as a cobra, and done with zero emotion. Make the correction,enforce discipline, and try again. She will understand this. 
Correction and discipline does not mean physical punishment. It just means to take control and re-establish yourself as in charge.
Take control of her mind and focus. She's too young to be making her own decisions.


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