# Training Regression?



## Ruin (Nov 9, 2011)

Hi All,

It's been a while since I've been on since I've been crazy busy with some serious life changes. I'm here because I'm worried about my boy though...

It seems that since we moved he has completely regressed on all his training. At 6.5 months old I had a puppy that would come on command, would sit 100% of the time when told, not jump, not bite, and did "leave it" without question. Now, he's gotten bigger and he's pushing his limits. I got a new job and have been having to wait before I can pick up night shift (hopefully only one more week) and my family takes care of him during the day when I work. My grandparents specifically. So far, in two months, he has caused numerous cuts, scratches, bruises and maybe even a fractured knee. I am completely aware of the fact that he is a puppy, and he is a strong, high energy dog. I do not hold this against him. I also understand that as we age our bodies get weaker and are much more easily damaged.

However, my MAIN concern is the fact that I now have a puppy that seems to be competing for the alpha role or is just plain being defiant and stubborn. The hours that I am home during the day he is out of the crate, he is with me, and we work on training just as we always have. During the day he alternates between being crated and being outside on the deck/yard (an area my grandfather and I fenced in). It's a good sized area - probably bigger than my last apartment). We take two mile hikes up and down the mountain about twice a week and he's fed on a regular schedule.

I'm just at a loss on how to get him to calm down and listen like he used to. I attribute it to puppy puberty mainly and have been trying to prepare myself for this... but my patience wear thin. I need some help and advice on how to get him back to his tamer obedient self before we both get the boot! 

Thanks in advance everyone... having a baby is tough! :O


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## flynnandlunasmom (May 28, 2012)

Sounds like he's regressing because his training isn't being reinforced. 

Also sounds like he's not getting enough exercise at all. He's probably bored in the backyard. DO they go out there with him and throw him a frisbee or ball or just leave him there? 

I suspect your grandparents aren't really doing any work with him or disciplining hom (not that you can expect them to). 

I don't think your dog is changing. I think he's bored, not being challenged and needs more exercise.

Please don't take this as a criticism. I KNOW it's hard to find the time 9and we're all guilty of this at time) but I think his behavior is dictating just how much more focus and attention he needs.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I agree with flynnandlunasmom.
Big changes, less time spent on obedience and exercise, along with the pup becoming a teenager.
Its the perfect recipe for a pup to be come unruly.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> ... but my patience wear thin. I need some help and advice on how to get him back to his tamer obedient self before we both get the boot!


Ruin,

You have to walk this dog on lead every day in a heel position.

It will get worse unless you do. Get him back or you will lose him.

I don't care if it is midnight and raining. He needs his master to walk him.

You've been on HVF long enough to know what you need to do if you think about it.

Write more posts of how hard it really is for those new folks with their pups all nice and gentle. The puppy stage lasts a very short time. The adolescent stage lasts a couple years. The dog stage lasts many years from there.

You need to be your dog's leader. You have to be.

RBD


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## Ruin (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks guys.

He does get play time during the day with a ball and a frisbee, he gets treats as he's pottying where he needs to be. The worst lack of discipline is inside the house. 

RBD, thanks for the idea of walking him on his lead again. I've been bad about that, we tend to walk off lead so he can run and explore and expend some energy when we take our hikes. He will run the ENTIRE time.

I'm looking forward to moving to nights so I have days with him again so I'll be around more.

As far as challenging him... any tips on how to do this while I'm gone? He's already figured out how to unlatch gates haha. 


He's a good boy, and a good dog, I just need him to act like I know he can.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

I agree with parts of Mom's and TXreds - the change in routine always effects the dogs. They're adaptable though and when new routines are learned, they're usually good with that.

I don't agree that your dog isn't changing - he is. I hear many instances where the dog was very compliant as a baby and then as he hits between 6 and 10 months suddenly he doesn't listen as well, doesn't do what he did before, etc. That's because he's puppy trained, not DOG trained. That's not your fault or anyone else's, because he can't be DOG trained until he's become a DOG. At this stage the pup is growing into himself and the natural progression is for him to find his permanent place in the pack - from now to around age 2 - 2 1/2. He will test boundaries and limitations. Consistency and reinforcement that you AND your Grandparents AND/Or children etc are above him in the pack is key going forward. 
Stick with the training - he'll come through it and so will you. 
Exercise is always good - but it can also be a double edged sword. Dogs in great condition _*need*_ more exercise than those who aren't. I would personally stick with a few good runs a week and work more on obedience and mental drills as they are as tiring for the dog or moreso than a good run. This helps maintain good condition and strikes a balance of condition and obedience. The other thing to keep in mind that runs are not necessarily free runs, they can be used for handling training, recall etc. Anytime you spend with the dog you are training it to do or ignore something - whether you know you are or not.
Ken


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## flynnandlunasmom (May 28, 2012)

Good point WillowyndRanch. I guess by saying I didn't think the dog was changing I just meant that fundamentally he's the same dog and didn't all of a sudden have some Jekyl & Hyde switch. But you're right in terms of puppies changing into adults and challenging more etc. 

Also, good points about the mental exercise. My husband and I were just talking the other day about how we need to have less free runs with the dogs and more working sessions.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

Riley has developed what I like to call teenage selective hearing now that she's gone through her first heat cycle and is 10 months old. I love her new-found sense of confidence, but along with it has come quite a bit of independence and attitude! The older he gets, the more he will challenge you. You should definitely talk to his caregivers and really stress the importance of maintaining the rules you've established for him. Our girl started having really bad issues of being mouthy and I couldn't figure out why - until I was at my parents house picking her up from her "doggie daycare" and my mom started playing with her and letting her mouth hard all over her arms.  The next day I sent out a list to everyone who regularly interacts with her that had all of the rules on it. Since then, she's gotten MUCH better! 

I also agree that it sounds like he's not getting enough exercise. Riley is a wild child if she doesn't get to run every day and it definitely manifests itself in behavioral issues. A backyard is great, but he's probably bored of it by now. You should see if your grandparents can take him on off-leash excursions! They don't even have to walk very far - he will exercise himself as long as he has the space to run.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

As our dogs get older we forget how sharky they started out as puppies. Then they are so sweet and we can't wait to tell everyone how much they have improved and learned. Next comes the teenage stage where they tests their boundaries.
They try and get away with things they haven't tried in months. They are not quite adults yet but well on their way.
Its just all a part of growing up. Work with them through the teenage months and your wonderful, well mannered dog will return.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

No such thing as regression. The boys/girls FINALLY start to mature and holes in our communication (training) become evident. Usually means that we need to be more consistent... and upgrade the treats to dried fish


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

I have to agree with those who say the teenage V hormones are taking over your pup  I remember my oldest V. Sophie would literally challenge me with everything starting at around 7 months. I'd be standing by the door all dressed up ready to take her out for a walk, but she would not do a "sit" no matter what! Sometimes I'd take a magazine and read it right there by the door while she's remembering her "sit's and stay's". It was pretty frustrating! Good luck and don't give up! Consistency is the key


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

With mine its always been the signal that the puppy games (puppy training) was over and we could start formal training. They didn't all hit the teenage stage at the same age. I think June was the oldest when she hit the little rebellious stage. Hers was counter surfing, and trying to sneak on the table for a better view of the squirrels on the feeder. She is still a dog that will work for food and affection. She is a glutton for both.


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## adrino (Mar 31, 2012)

Two miles hike twice a week? That's what Elza, my 8 1/2 months old girl gets a day! *Every day!*

Seriously, you have a hunting dog that you do not hunt but give him a backyard exercise, if. Sorry, but that's just not enough.
Get him tired and than do basic training sessions every day. Even if it's for 10 minutes a day it will tire his brain! Give him more chew toys, bones. 

I work full time too but before I've got a vizsla I made sure I understood that this dog will need the exercise every single day. No matter what! And I have fulfilled this need ever since. She's happy, she's tired and she's obedient. She's also in that age when she pushes her boundaries. I make sure that she cannot push it too far! 

I'm very honest here and I just hope you will not be one of those who regret to get a vizsla at the first place...


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## Ruin (Nov 9, 2011)

adrino said:


> Two miles hike twice a week? That's what Elza, my 8 1/2 months old girl gets a day! *Every day!*
> 
> Seriously, you have a hunting dog that you do not hunt but give him a backyard exercise, if. Sorry, but that's just not enough.
> Get him tired and than do basic training sessions every day. Even if it's for 10 minutes a day it will tire his brain! Give him more chew toys, bones.
> ...


I certainly don't regret getting a V. He's an amazing pup with just some developmental issues as all children of all species tend to go through.

Also realize that here, in the Great Smokies, 2.5 miles is straight up and down hill, not flat land. So it's a grueling hike - for both of us (Uncle Sam destroyed my feet and knees). He comes home and sleeps for hours past his normal nightly sleep.

I'm aware Malcolm isn't getting "enough" but he's getting the "best" we can manage right now. He's a top priority in the family and I often forego my own sleep or routine to meet his needs. The main thing I'm looking for is what was said in the past 8-10 posts: assurance that what he's going through is a normal developmental stage and that as soon as I can take him out more I'll see my lovable little friend back. We train constantly, whenever he's out of his crate. We often work on basic - sit, stay, leave it, bring it, no, and "good boy!" I've been able to coach my grandfather on how to maintain the training while I'm gone (about ten hours each day - or more). The change in schedule at work will be a huge help giving me more time with him each day.

Thanks for the support guys and gals. Knowing that there is light at the end of the tunnel helps keep my patience in tune and aware. This nipping and jumping has to stop sooner rather than later just because of the damage that strong dog is causing!


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Based on the updated info, I think Ken has it nutted. All three of mine went through this change and I guess when I think about it, to some degree every dog I've every had has gone through it. As I always say, it's about repetition and consistency. Keep at it and I am sure Malcolm will come around. 

Oh.... also, get ready for another dose of the "I'll do what I wants" when they hit age three. Most Experienced V owners I know, all say they have another red hot go at about three. I'm looking forward to mine getting there too.... not!!!  

Just remember, Malcolm is but a baby and somehow you must remain above this and not allow it to frustrate you too much. Remember what we always say about benevolent pack leadership and a calm persona. Malcolm is still looking to you for that quiet and confident leadership. He needs to trust you, so try not to let him make you upset or angry. It's hard and sometimes even the best of them lose it, but just try and keep it in the back of your mind that he is but a simple pup. (I know, I've lost it a few times recently due to personal frustrations and regret each and every one of them. Thankfully my pups forgave me quickly)


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