# Looking For a Hunting Pup?



## Rudy

1. Are both Parents on site?


Are the puppies thriving or any youth starter Pups on site ?


Can you touch the Parents watch, feed treats and is this a working ranch, Hunting camp, farm or a link to real Raw wild hunting?

2.Have the Sire and Dam been OFA'D certified and passed all the pre Vet screenings?

OFA will support and certify all the hips of the mates 2 years and older passed

Hipdysplasia can impact most breeds .


3.Certify the eyes of the pups for cataracts or any other disease or deformations 


4. Where the dogs Temperament tested?

temperament testing exist to determine the attitudes behaviors from obedience to hunting pre skills on starter pups 

this can matter as well with 8 week old pups if the Sire and Dam are the same .

What pointer guarantee will the Breeder back on the health of the Pup and the Time this in Print lasts?

Responsible Breeders take every pre caution to produce close to genetic free puppies are free of disease the best they can 

This may include buying back the pup or Full Replacements program in print per the contracts

read your contracts they matter to the life of the pup.

Do they provide a lifetime life line link support for You and Your Pup ?

Does the Breeder screen you as well this matters much if the puppy can fit the Lifestyle choices you have made?

We want Few chances for these great mates

Many pointers Go to Very wrong homes and conditions

Having money does not create a spot in the family

Having abilities and core exercise areas and tons more can help support these choices For Reds


Does The Breeder Hunt His Dogs on site or other locations ?

Can you watch the Sire or Dam or a Junior starter Pup From the Daddy and Mommy Hunt some on site?

Many top Breeders keep 1 pup to display and hunt freely and some are top end Youth starter pups 

What shots and worming information in writing and dates has He or She provided You?

as well as providing You His or Hers Vet the times the shots the Vets contact information and phone number as well?

With full paper disclousure From His Vet used? 

Pre tail docking , dew claws removed ?

You must look at pride of ownership of His property conditions ?

how clean were all the pups living area?

fresh clean waters and changed often and systems and Foods Used on site ?

and His or Her Personal Passions For all His Pups, Juniors starter pups and Mommy and Danny

Pride of Ownership still matters

You can feel see and Touch many of These choices

Puppies are so rewarding and Grow up Very fast

This is just a taste to Red Freedom


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## Sail

Awesome pictures Rudy. Thanks for the info.

Some say both parents on site is a no no ? ...but, all great kennels seem to have both parents on site. Otherwise, how can they guide the direction in which they breed?

Quote from a Hungarian breeder. Insights into the breed how it was achieved. If all breeders help by holding up these principles, the breed would remain vital, strong and healthy. (We know for a fact this is not the case, though :'( )


Translated/copied and pasted...

"LET THE GOOD VIZSLA BE BEAUTIFUL!

The goal of our breeding programme: * Longevity * Versatility* Beauty’*

We know the vizsla has evolved into the dog that we love now during long centuries and during these centuries the only aspect of selection was the hunting ability. So we can say: Hunting has made the vizsla that they are: a ‘VIZSLA’.

Our strong conviction is that nowadays the breeders have only one workable way in the vizsla breeding - and this way is the same that has worked for hundreds of years: to keep up the excellent psychical abilities and at the same time to make the vizsla more and more fit, beautiful and healthy.

Our aim is to breed vizslas that have excellent hunting abilities (good nose, style, drive, keen to retrieve, “dramatic” pointing ) that are nice (lean, noble, aristocratic) that are easy to train and have good temperament. We are proud of those (*kennel name removed--- for annonimity and fairness), which have won not only in the show but in the hunting competitions as well or which perform excellently in the hunting fields.

We have ascertained the hunting abilities of each of our breeding stock. Each *(kennel name removed) baby has ancestors of two or three generations scored for HD and good working ability.

When choosing a female or male for breeding, to be “breeding quality” is a must. By breeding quality I mean she / he is healthy, has excellent temperament & conformation, no exception is made! 
So she / he must be well balanced, sound vizsla-look and expression (obviously this is evident to experienced Vizsla breeders only) . 
Even the grandparents and the great-grandparents of our vizslas that actually take part in our breeding program had been selected for these characteristics. However we prefer the hunting fields to the show-ring, all of our brood bitches are champions..."

Of course, the credentials of this breeder: Been in the breed since 1965.


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## texasred

Finding the correct stud to compliment your bitches traits is more important than just using what's in your kennel.
If your stud fits the bill fine, if not look else where.


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## Rudy

;D


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## v-john

TexasRed said:


> Finding the correct stud to compliment your bitches traits is more important than just using what's in your kennel.
> If your stud fits the bill fine, if not look else where.


I agree. I don't ever remember having both of the parents on sight for any of the pups I have bought. In fact, Sis, was just picked out for me. You find the stud you like and the bitch you like and go from there. I like to see titles in the games that I play behind the parents too. Those are the games that I play, and I want to be competitive in what we do. It means that the dog has been competing and judged to a high standard multiple times by multiple people. 
I can work with that. 
People say that they have a good hunting dog, and this may be true, but it may not be what I want or think is a good hunting dog. So knowledge of the parents and trusting the breeder are very high in priority, in my opinion.


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## R E McCraith

Hunt - show - companion - a well bred V meets all of these - just have a better chance 4 a hunting V if sire & dam come from a 5 gen pedigree proven in the field - still a crap shoot - pay more 4 pick of the litter - lowers the odds just a little bit - to close a deal - I want 2 C the best health history !!!


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## Rudy

8) :


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## solefald

if you want a hunting pup that also looks good, Warren is the guy to talk to!


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## Sail

Old Vizsla kennels (those that have been around for generations) own and have owned breeding rights to both the males and females of the bloodline they were entrusted by generations past. Perhaps misunderstood, but it is not a new breed. :'(

They would have no control over breeding if the bloodlines were all mixed and matched based on customer satisfaction. After all, there are differences. A custom dog for the occasional hunter? ( :-[ Just having some fun with words).


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## Rudy

;D


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## texasred

I need a unlike button.


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## Rudy

;D


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## redbirddog

I believe it really comes down to are you looking for a hunting buddy that is laid back and more like a lab, or are you looking for a hard-charging, large running, all-age performance Hungarian Pointer? It comes down to what you want. No reason to drive a twin turbo Porsche if all you're going to do is go to the post office. Finding my next Hungarian Pointer will be a long process. It will be to find the best of the best because I will want to compete in the field trial game. The dog will not be much of a lap dog. Bailey has been my test dummy where I have learned how to do things wrong. Next Hungarian Pointer will be the beneficiary of those mistakes. Thanks Bailey. - RBD

_One of my heroes is Ray Cooper, who was there at the very early stages of the Vizsla's acceptance in America in the late 1950's and early 1960's._

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/08/promoting-vizsla-as-high-class-bird-dog.html

Ray Cooper -- Co-Founder of the National Vizsla Association

WHY RUN VIZSLAS IN AMERICAN FIELD TRIALS?

Here’s how and why:

1. By competing in trials against breeds that are considered 
the best, one gains a perspective on what is needed is his own dogs. 

*This helps to prevent kennel blindness. * 

If you see what your dogs need in order to
win, you will be far more selective in your breeding
program or when selecting a pup.

2. As you select the best of the best from your breed you
automatically encourage improvement and
discourage complacency.
If you know either the sire or dam 
you are considering for breeding stock isn’t capable of 
beating the best you are going to look elsewhere.

3. As the product of better breeding begins to perform and 
win against the breeds considered to be the best,
not only does your attitude change,
but so it does in the minds of those you’re competing against.

4. As these better Vizslas begin to win more often, you attract others
to your breed who have the same desires as yourself.

5. As you attract more bird dog fanciers they in turn only breed 
the best to the best and you begin to see more improvement yet.

6. Over time the breed improvement benefits from this continued momentum.

This can only happen in an arena of purists.

As long as there is a diversion of interest there will be a dilution of quality.

If you are trying to have a do everything dog,
you may very well wind up with a do nothing dog. 

By running in American Field trials you are competing
in a world of bird dog purists.

They don’t give a hoot about which dog won last weekends
best in show. They aren’t interested in hearing that your dog 
can catch a Frisbee and jump over a stick.

While they may be polite about it, they are thinking why
do those people care about that? 

If you love the bird dog in your Vizsla, then you owe it to yourself and 
your dog to go up against the best. 

Find out how you stack up. 
You may be surprised, just as many Vizsla owners have been, 
when you bring home the blue.

You may be disappointed at first. One thing you will know is what 
you’ve got and what it’s going to take to win. 

If you have the desire and the dedication you can have an impact on the trials you
run in, the people you compete against and the breed you love.


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## zigzag

RBD I was having a interesting conversation with my family this weekend about Hunting dogs. Specifically bird dogs and how modern breeding programs have diluted many of the hard charging bird dogs of the past. I think we made some comparison to the thoroughbred race horses. Race horses are breed to WIN! That's all that's expected of them, they are handled by professionals and kept in stables. If we wanted are modern bird dogs to be only hunting machines. Then breeders would make hunting machines.


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## Rudy

All this year 2 and some months this season : there words That's a elder with a wide work bench :-\ :'(

hunting fake release sites on planted turds? ;D? I mean dull birds ;D

You cannot buy this fluff and its free I was age 8  these years wild remote and free with 3 great Brits by my sides 

only the internet could this be free. 

wait I have a paste a fog blog coming to me ;D

sorry wrong book store :-[

I laughed so hard it hurt my core where are my pre and pro boitics and digestive enzymes? 

ah heck chuck my a Satan ball : with Vegtable Grease : and cheap hamburger ;D :'(

year 52 hunting wild free remote now pass me a cheese ball


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## redbirddog

zigzag said:


> RBD I was having a interesting conversation with my family this weekend about Hunting dogs. Specifically bird dogs and how modern breeding programs have diluted many of the hard charging bird dogs of the past. I think we made some comparison to the thoroughbred race horses. Race horses are breed to WIN! That's all that's expected of them, they are handled by professionals and kept in stables. If we wanted are modern bird dogs to be only hunting machines. Then breeders would make hunting machines.


Zigzag, 
One plays the field trial game to win. But unlike a thoroughbred race horse, where it is all about physical ability, in a field trial it is judged by humans on how well the dog and hunter work together and how independent and bold the dog is in its quest for the birds and the soft mouth return of the bird to the hunter's hand. 

There are a thousand little pieces in a one hour American Field trial that have to go just right and not done just well, but at the best level possible. To compete against the pros is tough but there is an amateur class where no paid professionals can run the dogs. Still very competitive and you and the dog have to bring your "A game."

This sport is not for everyone. But if you are going to drive sometimes two days to a three day event to run your dog in one brace, you plan to win. Otherwise you don't waste the time and money.

A successful professional at a field trial told me during dinner in a tent on a cold and rainy Saturday night way out in the Northern California foothills. "Rod, if you want to play the field trial game, you need a field trial dog and train it as a field trial dog." 

Bailey could have been a great field trial dog. But I wasn't ready. Next time (maybe).

So in reality "Looking for a Hunting Pup" is not really the same as "Looking for a Field Trial Pup." But a field trial dog makes an incredible hunting dog that is a joy to follow in the field! 

Happy trails and trials.
RBD


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## v-john

I know Ray and have met him a few times at the NVA's. He wrote an article about Riley and some of the success that we were having in American Field "Pointer" trials. There for a while, Riley was winning quite a bit. 

That's about all I run, and Ray has always been supportive. I guess he and I have the same ideas as far as the competition we want to run in. 
It frustrates me though, to hear some of the owners of vizslas out there that make excuses to not run their dogs in the American Field type trials and only want to run in the AKC type stuff. Excuses like "not getting a fair shake" or not being welcome are a couple I have heard. They want to run in Vizsla only trials. Whatever. 
The reality is that they don't want to be told that their dog doesn't have it to compete. 
RBD, if I were you, I'd start looking now. The gene pool to play the game is very small. Believe me, I know. Come up to Grovesprings in Missouri and ride some braces. See what you like and don't like. That gives you a good heads up on seeing dogs in person. 

It seems like in every breed, there is a division of folks between "hunting dogs" and "field trial dogs". There is a misconception that the field trial dogs can't hunt. Field trial dogs, in my opinion, have to hunt, and must have the ability to search out and find game, or they simply won't be successful. They have to be able to go out, and head over the hill in the pursuit of game, and have the desire to do so. They have to be "hard-charging" so to speak, or they will simply not be successful. Mine do so, then come back in and sleep in bed with me. 
My two more successful ones like to sleep under the covers for some reason. 

It depends on what you want. I have hunted with a fellow who bragged and bragged about how much of a wonderful hunting dog he had. So, I hunted with him, and the dog literally never left a five foot radius of him. So basically the only game they would stumble upon is game that was right in front of them. He loved the dog, but not for me. And that's fine. We all want different things out of our dogs and that's great. 

Find the breeder that produces dogs that you want. 
And even then it's a crapshoot. Every litter has trial prospects, and every one has washouts. It's just about trying to even up the odds. Trial washouts can make the best of hunting dogs. I have one at home. 

Bottom line, get a dog from a breeder that breeds for what you want. Do your homework and give the dog a great home. The rewards will be tenfold.


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## v-john

One more thing about trials. 

I know that they aren't real per se. I know that the pen raised birds aren't like wild birds. I also know that it isn't much like "real hunting". I've tried just about every sort of trial there is, from the shoot to retrieve stuff, to AKC, to AF. I've seen pen raised birds do ridiculously stupid things. Fly into dogs, walk around like it's a Sunday stroll out in the open... Stuff a wild bird would never do. 

But, the advantage of trials is such that they extend the hunting season. Trials occur after hunting season ends, for the most part, and allows you to do an activity with your dog after the season happens. And any activity, with your dog, is a good one. 

Also, it allows your dog to be judged by other, non-partisan folks who have a passion for bird dogs. So many people think that their dogs are the most wonderful dogs in the world, but field trials allow others to judge your dog. Conversely, it is only another person's opinion, but... It's nice to know someone else liked your dog. Win, or lose.


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## Sail

Witti---- circa 1920. One of the first Vizslas to get a pedigree. 

One kennel.


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## v-john

I'm not sure I understand the advantage for "one kennel".


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## texasred

V-John said:


> I'm not sure I understand the advantage for "one kennel".


Me either.
What exactly is your point Sail?
Maybe you could leave your *Just having some fun with words *out, and be straight forward.


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## Sail

Bloodlines go back a long, long time. Owned by the aristocracy and competed against each other's for hunting ability. That was a long long time ago before the world wars.


However, more recently...

Zagyvaparti Frici Fickó , 1967 - (Csavargó - Díva) CAC, CACIB, W.Winner - '71


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## texasred

If you would rather live in the past , than look toward the future. Go ahead.
I have been sick for the last few days, and my patience is wearing thin. I don't intend to bring myself down to your holier than thou level.
Maybe you can entertain the rest of the forum with your breeding practices, and why you feel they are better.


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## Sail

Primasz ..C.G. champion trophy ... current history.


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## einspänner

Why are we arguing over this exactly???

There's nothing wrong with a one kennel dog if the traits the breeder is selecting for are there, but surely we can agree that there are times when the best match is found in a larger pool. Yes? 

I'm sure people could post nice pics of dogs from multiple kennel breedings, but that doesn't actually prove anything except vizslas are good looking dogs.


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## v-john

I wasn't even sure what we were arguing about? 

But eventually, a kennel will have to go outside it's own kennel. The genetics can only be so tight before an outcross has to be done. Right?


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## Rudy

Correct a must not just a need


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## hobbsy1010

einspänner said:


> Why are we arguing over this exactly???
> 
> There's nothing wrong with a one kennel dog if the traits the breeder is selecting for are there, but surely we can agree that there are times when the best match is found in a larger pool. Yes?
> 
> I'm sure people could post nice pics of dogs from multiple kennel breedings, but that doesn't actually prove anything except vizslas are good looking dogs.


Just like the good old days........... 

Arguing for arguments sake......... 

All that's missing is Ozkar and Data hey Sail!! ;D

Hobbsy


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## R E McCraith

the vizsla pedigree site is great place 2 hunt - % line breeding - health - wins in the ring & field ETC - just another tool - but well worth using


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## texasred

Sail said:


> Old Vizsla kennels (those that have been around for generations) own and have owned breeding rights to both the males and females of the bloodline they were entrusted by generations past. Perhaps misunderstood, but it is not a new breed. :'(
> 
> *They would have no control over breeding if the bloodlines were all mixed and matched based on customer satisfaction. After all, there are differences. A custom dog for the occasional hunter? ( :-[ Just having some fun with words).*


Marked in bold is what set me off.
I know its my pet peeve, but I can't stand comments from people that are only happy if they are downing someone else. In current time we do not have to choose the best stud that is *close* to us. We can fly a bitch halfway around the country. To say the bloodlines are all mix matched, if you don't always breed within your own kennel would be false. Many of the bloodlines were crossed before.

If you look back this was my first post on this thread.


> Finding the correct stud to compliment your bitches traits is more important than just using what's in your kennel.
> If your stud fits the bill fine, if not look else where.


It never was a argument. Just felt snide remarks were uncalled for.


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## Rudy

There were zero

thee were comments from doing

and funny Big Rud Fly' south s soon to meet and join the Mixer of Reds  ;D

trust and respect earned on the other side is waiting and great earned pride is waiting For Him as well not false bs for print .

Have a Very blessed day 

Only a clown would speak on hunting Year 2 and 3 months promoting Release sites

ask just this to any Real earned Remote raw risk taking Hunter with Skills 


green teas a must not a chance 

For Heaven pity don't like it don't read it Few beat Heart events ;D

Protect the Reds and care


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## harrigab

Did you ever make any mistakes regarding a V Rudy, did it all come naturally? was there a V owner ever more experienced than yourself? Can we all come and live in Alaska?


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## Rudy

Such slighted Words Youngster 

Words in real life man sweet or man sweat close matter so much more and no threats bs this is a example of a true trained Viking Warrior last years ;D

To answer Your Question not sure why its a Hater response Go Figure : But I love to share real earned life fun

these days just caring, helping , sharing and some leading still and a handshake or hug is great to are team 

There were Some Harr without extreme risks there is never a real reward 

Number 1. after days of begging me can I use Buster Brown one of My Best Males to date

I said Yes to a cousin who was not a seasoned Vet' and was a poor choice of when not to flex with Raw mother nature :-[

I told him No Ponds no creeks the ice brings great dangers as the temps had been minus 33

and we were on a 45 degree rise in 2 days :-\

this is never a safe example to hunt.

I told Him my Corn stubble or sage only

He did not listen to me or others

He took him to the frozen ponds I feared From Years of facing these odds and fewer options.



He shot 2 green heads one shot right off the breach where the ice was breaking up and He command my seat 1 stud beloved mate and partner I could not replace in skills and loves get the birds


Buster brown Hit The Ice and went under and for 30 seconds maybe more fought For His life to rebreak the thicker ice He could not break back :'(

He drowned off My choices and he was placed after 3 hours 5 lads to get him and they risked some as well to gain my boy back .

I thanked then all for the efforts 

My cousin threw him on my Porch

the note only said these words

and I still have the note real life is far more substances 

I killed your dog

I am already moving and You will never find me

and that's it

what was on my porch was not my mate the fear on his frozen great face can still haunts me 

and the placement of His great Body froze up in. :-\

Days later I had a great small remote hunters blessing and He was buried 23 men came and 4 ladies

I did cry some :'(

2 years not the same day but the same month

My cousin was killed drunk Driving

as much as he hurt me I went to his funeral as well

only 5 folks came to his last calls? ???

I did pray him well and heaven

It was the right thing to do 

as Hate you can never exceed great 

Mistake 2.

setting duck blinds in Grizz Bears killing areas

one female was ate in parts

my guns were empty I could not stop this Bear He had thrill kill skills

I killed the Male 4 days later

fair.

It did not change the outcome but it did provide a few locals more safety as he had killed stock all week

before I set my Blinds a Big Mistake on me and shameful to my core 

I have lost 2 Mates 50 plus years Harr digging deep raw real remote with extreme risks 

by Choices not Just chances and I bless you a outstanding day for You and Yours

A pirates life it be my choice free 

there are mistakes we make more choices and with Grace I will not Post there Pics after death

They earned this For Me a real tough loss.

all help at least 1 be more just a simple hug could make a broken Fight on to me

The simple answers if there is one extreme joys extreme risks and some great loss mate

Real Core Passions are never just written or copied of Fogged there earned 

some hurts last a lifetime if you have a heart

I hold on to Things that still matter


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## R E McCraith

The Post - a simple ? - with a complex answer - I have never bred a pup - but have had 4 great V's under my long gun - research is the key - at the end of the day you start them young (9-10 wks ) on birds and never stop training - Let's keep this post on POINT !!!!!! if the post just gets 1 V in the field - GREAT !!!!


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