# Ideal dog food - Grain or grain free



## stumor

My Vizsla pup is just gone 8 months old, we've had her since 6 months and she's fantastic. One thing I definitely want to get right is her food especially for her health and coat.

I've tried a few different brands from James Wellbeloved to Royal Canine but am looking for a better option than either of those. I found these two and if anyone has any experience with either brand, I'd love to hear some feedback or alternative recommendations.




[li]http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/taste_of_the_wild/231920 - Grain free although smaller bags and more expensive, looks good[/li]

[li]http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/purina_pro_plan/184029 - Grain, larger, cheaper and recommended by the vet[/li]


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## Bob Engelhardt

I don't think that I've ever heard (here) a recommendation for grain-y food. We are mostly grain-free and raw believers. However, I don't think that there is conclusive evidence about any of it. But there are strongly held opinions.

For a while we fed Taste of the Wild (TOTW) & were mostly satisfied with it. We switched around, trying to find food that would be compatible with a sensitive gut of one of ours (very loose stool). That he didn't do well with TOTW is no reflection on the food - our other one was fine with it. (We are currently feeding Earthborn & it works pretty well for him.)

Bob


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## texasred

If Cash didn't have food allergies, I would be feeding Purina Pro. My dogs had more endurance,and quicker recovery time on it, than any other dog food I have fed.
It's not popular to say that on the forum, but I never thought feeding your dog should be a popularity contest. 

So I can only tell you, feed your dog what works for them.


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## Spy Car

In my opinion the idea canine diet is carbohydrate-free, and (except in unusual cases) it doesn't matter much if the carbohydrates in commercial dog kibble from grain or some other plant/starch. Neither is necessary or beneficial to health.

Bill


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## mlg1900

Grain or grain free....so confusing to me also. I have seen time and time again to avoid grains for our dogs. It is bad for them. But why? Because of allergies? Why are dogs allergic to grains? Isn't allergies due to bad breeding? Isn't that something that breeders say over and over again??? I recently spoke with another breeder / owner who said how she hates the whole grain free argument. That does need the carbs, especially hunting dogs. She mentioned that the grain free foods get their carbs from peas and beets, etc. And that her dogs tend to gain weight with those types of carbs. 

I notice my dogs eat grass EVERY SINGLE DAY. I used to hear all the time about how dogs eat grass because they have upset tummies and need to purge. But my dogs eat some grass and go on about their business. I only ever notice them vomitting when they have had an empty stomach, then go and eat grass, lots of grass, then vomit the grass and bile. But if i keep their food on schedule there is no vomitting and they still chew on grass now and then. Is the grass similar to grain? Do they eat it because I feed them a grain free diet? 

I just don't understand it all. We recently switched to purina pro plan sensitive and sport at the suggestion of this breeder because my youngest is having skin issues this summer. I think its too soon to tell a difference yet though.


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## hecallsmebama

Every dog is different. Amos eats Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast. He either had trouble with grains or chicken...not sure which, but this food has neither and works well for him. 

This next part is not from tons of experience as a dog mom (Amos is only 9 months old and he's my first) but from the tons of experience with the lovely health issues that my family has that forced us to better understand food allergies. I can't help but think that at least some of it might apply to dogs. Either way, that is my disclaimer regarding the following info.

Food allergies are not necessarily genetic. They can also be developed from a compromised digestive system. Our immune system is housed in the gut. If our digestive system is compromised, then food particles can escape into the blood stream. That is called leaky gut. Over time the immune system starts to react to these food particles and that reaction is an allergy. 

What causes the gut to be compromised? It can be compromised by parasites (Amos has had a terrible battle with tapeworms all summer). It can also be compromised by an imbalance of gut bacteria and gut yeast/fungus. If one is out of balance it can cause the other to overgrow. This is why we take probiotics after a round of antibiotics. 

Why might grains be a problem for some? Grains are a simple carbohydrate. Carbs feed yeast/fungus. If your gut is already unbalanced in favor of yeast, this would be like pouring gasoline on a fire. People who crave lots of sugar and simple carbs likely suffer from a yeast/fungus overgrowth. Many grains also contain gluten or cross-reactive particles (meaning the body can mistake them for gluten). Gluten is a known common allergy and for many who aren't technically allergic, it is still inflammatory. Inflammation can be digestive, joint-related, cognitive, even weight gain. Almost any symptom can be further inflamed by gluten. Also, gluten is like a "glue". It can build up in the gut since it is not digested easily and prevent the absorption of vital nutrients. My husband, the picture of an athlete, was found vitamin deficient in many areas after being diagnosed with a gluten allergy. We never knew. 

But people have been eating wheat and grains for thousands of years! How can this be?! (We asked this very question when the hubby was diagnosed). It is because in the last several decades we started farming GMO versions of wheat. Wheat today is engineered to contain 10x the amount of gluten it did 100 years ago. First off, it makes for a hardier crop that can withstand unfavorable conditions better. Secondly, it makes a flour that is almost fail proof to bake with. All the extra "glue" makes it nearly impossible for a cake to "fall." I've never had a cake "fall" but I remember my grandmother talking about that being an issue. Nowadays, anyone can bake beautifully. Anyway, so if you are allergic or sensitive to gluten, eating one slice of bread today is like eating an entire loaf from 100 years ago.

This is an oversimplification of everything and I don't fully understand it all myself, but it's what we've learned and have to live by. It's been the only way we've been able to manage our health after years of failed efforts at symptom relief through traditional medical protocol. Between my husband and I, we are allergic or sensitive to gluten, dairy, eggs, canola oil, and neither of us handles sugar or a high amount of carbs well. Carbs are filler, even for humans. We eat alot of healthy (translate high Omega 3, low Omega 6, and grassfed) fats in their place so we aren't hungry, grumpy messes. Since learning this about ourselves and making these dietary changes, we both live a nearly symptom free life. 

Not everyone or every dog would be allergic or sensitive to grains. If you feed them, I would just watch for signs of inflammation (gut, fatigue, cognitive, etc.) and signs of yeast overgrowth (UTIs, Ear infections, ezcema or dandruff, etc.). And if there is ever a blood draw done and cost is minimal to add a vitamin panel, I would do it just to check that they are absorbing their nutrients properly.


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## hecallsmebama

I should add that food allergies can be reversed. A nurse once explained it to me like this: Food allergies are like a bucket. Once the bucket is full, the body flips on the immune response and says "no more!" This is why someone can eat something everyday of their life and then be diagnosed as allergic to it. This happened to me with eggs. I ate four scrambled every morning for breakfast. This also why variety has its benefits! Anyway if we then avoid the allergen, then the bucket can slowly empty itself over time (detox) and we can eat it again. Oversimplified analogy, but you get the gist.

L-glutamine or Glutamic Acid can speed up this process and help heal the gut quicker. I don't know if the supplement is safe for dogs. I would not give it without consulting a vet, but a natural and dog-safe source of it is bone broth...which I would think any dog would love, assuming the bones are from a protein source that agrees with the dog. 

We make a batched of bone broth for ourselves every week. We both feel better when we are drinking it regularly.


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## bob c

arcana any mix the best on the market but after some research.. found out that the pc grain free brand was the same mixture as arcana cost less showed facts to our vet he couldn't argue the facts[ even after to sell us royal canin]


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## KevaBode

*Ideal dog food Grain or grain free*

Im okay with ordering foods if I have to...but Im still looking for something really high calorie...so Im not stuffing him full of food. the Evo is 537 kcal/cup...which is a lot more than the other grain-free kibbles Ive looked at online. I can get the Natures Variety at my local store...and thats 490...so thats not bad...the Orijen is 470. And knowing that the NV is small is good http://bosch-master.com


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## WillowyndRanch

Bob Engelhardt said:


> I don't think that I've ever heard (here) a recommendation for grain-y food. We are mostly grain-free and raw believers. However, I don't think that there is conclusive evidence about any of it. But there are strongly held opinions.
> 
> For a while we fed Taste of the Wild (TOTW) & were mostly satisfied with it. We switched around, trying to find food that would be compatible with a sensitive gut of one of ours (very loose stool). That he didn't do well with TOTW is no reflection on the food - our other one was fine with it. (We are currently feeding Earthborn & it works pretty well for him.)
> 
> Bob


Although it may appear to be the case, my feeling is it's probably not really. Some folks are so much more vocal and dare I say emotionally charged about the subject that in the hundreds of times this subject has come up those who don't feel the same way pretty much skim over and don't respond to the thread anymore, giving the impression that it's just the raw/grain free crowd that exist on the forum.


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## suzannethemom

Question for BOB C.
What is PC grain free brand? If it's the same as Acana, I would like to try it.


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## DaxOlexar

Raw feed your dog. healthiest and best thing to do


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## MariusPet488

DaxOlexar said:


> Raw feed your dog. healthiest and best thing to do


Now I read about raw dog food and see that it could be much better to feed my dog in this way.
I Also found this typo of food: Dehydrated raw dog food, and especially this company: 
Have anybody of you guys try this out? Maybe know difference between it or any recommendations?


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## harrigab

MariusPet488 said:


> Now I read about raw dog food and see that it could be much better to feed my dog in this way.
> I Also found this typo of food: Dehydrated raw dog food, and especially this company: Dehydrated Raw Dog Food - ROCKETO | GORocketo.com
> Have anybody of you guys try this out? Maybe know difference between it or any recommendations?


if you want to re-type your recommendation, but without the link, that would be appreciated, we have vendors that pay for the privilege for advertising, cheers


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## anna wright

MariusPet488 said:


> Now I read about raw dog food and see that it could be much better to feed my dog in this way.
> I Also found this typo of food: Dehydrated raw dog food, and especially this company:
> Have anybody of you guys try this out? Maybe know difference between it or any recommendations?


Think about what they would eat in natural circumstances: meat (of all kind:birds, erbivores, hog,fish etc) and organs. Organs also conatin some grains and pre-digested vegetables. I fed mine with 70% raw meat and organs, one slize of whole grain/multi grain toast/day, steamed veggies, I kept 20-30% of dry food for the vitamins, oils and fibers it has. The eggs uncooked have an anti vitamin-K that would reduce the capability of bloodl-clot formation in case of an injury; besdes according to some sources the cooked egg-whites are easier to digest. Therefore raw eggs are good sometimes (1x/w) but cooked I used to cut in his food almost daily. Also you can add ocasionally Omega 3 oil and a tb.spoon of pure, original youghurt. This diet saves you a nice $ on vet bills and keeps your baby healthy and youthfull for a long time. Be careful for foods that should never be feed to dogs; there is a list (vegies and fruits). Anything else just adds to the variety of diet, increasing the vitamins and microelements he eats.


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