# Please help - 5 yr old viszla - very severe anxiety problems



## Rogue

Hi. I am new to this forum and in desperate need of advice regarding my 5 year old vizsla, called Rogue (in hind sight, this may have been a bad choice in name!). I am due to have my second child in 8 weeks, and feel like I am running out of options in dealing with Rogue's issues. Sorry this is a bit of an essay, but it is a complicated and difficult situation. Please, if you have any insights, I would love to hear them.

Some background: I have had Rogue since he was 8 weeks old. I took three weeks off work to settle him in and gradually get him used to being on his own, given my husband and I work 9-5, Monday to Friday. I followed all the training advice on getting dogs used to separation. He slept in the laundry and when we were at work, was outside with access to the laundry. We also went to puppy training and continued with obedience training for a while. Obedience exercise has been part of our day to day lives with him, we are consistent and he is a wonderful dog to have around. Very responsive and sweet in nature. Everyone who meets him falls in love with him.

We walk him religiously, for a minimum of one hour each day, off lead, running him with a ball and throw stick or on the bike. 

When he was two, we got a much smaller dog, he adjusted to her well. We have absolutely no problems with her. When he was about 2.5, there was a huge thunderstorm while we were at work, I came home to a broken door, some damage to the house and a very distressed Rogue - we had never had storm problems before. It has been downhill from there for the last 2.5 years. He ended up destroying the door between the laundry and the rest of the house twice, either when we were not at home or we were sleeping. We let him access the house during the day after that, and let him sleep inside at night. But shut the hall way doors to the bedroom. Until he destroyed that door and it's replacement. He ended up sleeping in our room. Thunderstorms are a nightmare- he is very stressed, if we are not home, he is destructive and usually escapes. But when he is with us, he is an angel. 

When I leave for work, I ignore him in the lead up to me leaving, I vary my routine and he shows no signs of stress. I give him bones and toys to entertain him. When I come home , I ignore him until he is calm. 

I tried early last year to get him outside again when we weren't home, putting in a Rogue proof door and extending the fence. Also spending time crate training him, never closing the door, but making the crate his happy place to go to during the day. He loved his crate. But once I put him back outside, he escaped 8 times in two months. He attempted to destroy to door, but only succeed in destroying the frame. We kept fixing the fence, he kept escaping. We extended again, but chicken wire underneath and over any section he could climb, but he always found a new way to escape.

So we started to lock him in the house while we were at work. He does not destroy anything, he seems happier in the house then anywhere else when we are at work. This seemed like a good solution, worked for a while, but then the night time anxiety started. And he went through a glass door and escaped again. So we shut him in with the Rogue proof door, he has not been able to escape. But for the last 6 -8 months, he started to pant and pace and whine at night, every night for about three hours. In our bedroom, around our bed, he would open my toddlers door to her room, go in there, pant and pace and wake her up. Sometimes jumping on her bed. He will not settle, even in our room, next to the bed. Pregnant with my second child, and exhausted from sleeplessness nights, I asked a friend to take him for 6 months while I prepare for and have the second child. (I should say, he is brilliant with children, no aggression, gentle and fabulous). 

My friend lived on a farm, and her partner could take him to work with him, he is a builder. He was doing exceptionally well up there, lots of exercise and company. When he came back for visits, he was so calm, relaxed and 'cured.' Until they went on a two week holiday and were left with her parents who work all day, five days a week. A storm hit, he was home alone and escaped. Once returned, they locked him inside and he destroyed their house. They are now sending him back. They can't deal with him. I am having my daughter in 8 weeks. I don't know what else to do.

The damage, destruction, escaping and anxiety only occurs when he is alone. I believe the night time anxiety is also related to separation anxiety. He is better if I sleep on the couch with his bed next to me and a hand on him, but that is a ridiculous long term solution, especially with a baby on the way. 

If a thunderstorm hits and we are home, he is in a state of high anxiety - we ignore him as we have been told to do, nothing works, not the crate, not drugs, not the thunder jacket, nothing. If the storm is at night, good bye sleep.

I have tried:
- natural therapies - rescue remedy etc
- thunder jacket (did not work)
- anxiety medication (for him, but I could probably do with some too!) - lovan (did not work), zanax (did not work) and a benzo - the benzo worked best but still not great
- crate training
- leaving radios on 
- desensitisation training (thunder CDs)
- increasing his exercise

We have persisted with each strategy, aware that time and patience can produce results. But we are running out of ideas. I would be open to any advice, suggestions or insight. Everyone around me is suggesting we put him down. I find that difficult to justify, when he really is a wonderful dog when he is with us, there is no thunderstorm, and it is not night time and we are not trying to sleep!!! I know that seems like a light of 'whens' but this really is a beautiful, well trained, responsive and intelligent dog. I can not comprehend putting him down. There has to be another way?

Again, sorry for the thesis,

Rachael


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## mswhipple

Rogue is a beautiful young dog, and if "everyone around" you is suggesting that you "put him down" (kill him), I think you need to find some new friends.

Seriously, what you probably need is an experienced animal behaviorist. I'm pretty sure that there are people here on the forums who can point you in the right direction. Please don't kill him, though! If worst comes to worst, contact a Vizsla rescue group and ask for their help. 

p.s. My dog is also pretty frightened of thunderstorms. This works for him, and maybe you could try it. Make him get into one spot that he usually finds comfortable. In Willie's case, it's an easy chair. Make him "stay" and then fling a blanket over him, covering him completely... head and all. Apparently, when I do this, Willie thinks he is well-hidden from the thunder monster, and he does not budge or make a sound until the storm has passed.


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## SerCopper

I'd take him offy our hands! Please do not consider putting him down!


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## jjohnson

Our puppy has similar anxiety issues, but with strangers. We found a CAAB (Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist) in our area and met with him. These are not just trainers, but they must have a PhD in animal behavior. It was very expensive, but made us feel so much better about the stressful situation, as we now feel we have help, and someone on our side who knows what to do. It may or may not help the odg, but for us at least, it gave us some peace of mind. 

Here is a list of CAAB's in case you are interested: http://www.certifiedanimalbehaviorist.com/page6.html

Our dog actually shows aggression and snaps at people when scared, but even so, I wouldn't even consider putting him down! Please don't do that- use a Vizsla rescue, or have you checked with your breeder? I know our breeder will take any dog back, no questions asked, rather than have them put down or in a shelter.


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## Rogue

Thanks so much for your reply and suggestions - and just to reassure all, I have absolutely no intention of putting him down. The thought makes me physically ill. And I do not want to re-home him either, it was hard enough sending him away for a break, I cried for days. He is part of my family. I find not everyone, even some other dog owners, view dogs that way. They seem to be disposable to them.

I have not tried the blanked approach during thunderstorms, I will give that a go. Getting him to settle anywhere is difficult, but if I can get the blanket over him quickly and sit with him a while, I am hoping it will work.

I am seeing my vet this morning and will ask about recommending a behavioural specialist, as jjohnson suggested, so we will try that as well.

Thanks again and I welcome any other suggestions - rest assured, putting him down is not an option in my mind, I mentioned it because that is all the advice I have received so far, and I knew there had to be more strategies out there.


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## redbirddog

> I am seeing my vet this morning and will ask about recommending a behavioural specialist, as jjohnson suggested, so we will try that as well.


Great call and we wish you the best. Like most things you may have to try a few specialist before you find the right match. Make sure they understand pointing breeds. They are different in their constitution and emotional make-up.

Chloe. is my "fearful' female (4 1/2 years old). and having Bailey, our confident male Vizsla (3 1/2 years old) around her all the time has helped her stay calmer. Not calm during storms or earthquakes, but calmer than when she is alone.

During fireworks or thunderstorms, she is crated with her thundershirt on and blanket over the crate with just a small slit. Bailey is put in the crate next to her, just so she knows he is there.

Neither of them has the desire to run because their pack is home.

There is something about the safety of the pack that dogs understand better than we do.

Good luck.
RBD


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## kristen

I know what you're going through. When i was a kid my family rescued a gun shy GSP. He was about 2 when we got him.
He was amazing when the weather was nice, but went nuts during storms and loud noises, and didn't like to be left alone. 
He would also bolt the moment a door was opened or escape any way he could. He couldn't be let out in a fenced yard unleashed. We ended up making him a kind of clothes line with aircraft cable that ran along the back of the house (low to the ground, but lag bolted to the house) his leash was clipped to that, so that he could have full run of the yard, but couldn't get out of the yard. He was also very destructive. He would eat through anything. 
We never found anything that worked 100%, but during storms he would squish in between my father and the back of the sofa under a blanket, and that seemed to be his safe place.
His destruction curbed with age, but before then we actually had to put on him a kind of like a cloth muzzle while we were out. (luckily my mom was a stay at home Mom, and there was Dad and 3 kids, so he was rarely home alone).
It was more for his safety that our caring about destroyed stuff. He could eat and drink in it, but could not chew. It also calmed him (think it had something to do with the pressure)
This is kind of what it looked liked. http://www.petedge.com/product/Guardian-Gear-Nylon-Muzzle-Sets-Black/46685.uts He had ones that were adjustable, but he managed to remove them. 

I think a behaviorist is your best bet, but just wanted you to know how my family managed our pup's severe anxiety. He lived a very happy life, and passed last fall at age 21.


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## 1notenough

Blankets and more blankets ,I have two that have a built in desire to be under them somehow it makes them feel safe.One is a little anxious and the other well he dosent seem to be scared of anything.Thunder is a bad thing I do not believe anyone likes it ,i believe its ingrained into their little brains,for good reason.Try to put your dog on a short leash at night with a dog bed next to where you sleep.I believe the pack needs to stay together at all times possiable.Mine sleep in the same room as i do and one sleeps with the kid.,if you want to have a pack then be a pack i dont buy into the seperation at night theory. Hope you find help with your dog.


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## Ozkar

I read your pot two or three times to take it all in. But, not having a crack at the size of the post, as I can see you had a lot of information to share to create the correct picture. But I wanted to see if I could find anything within your post that may be a key to what is happening.

My youngest Vizsla Astro is a Re-home. I got him at 6.5 months of age and he turns 1 year old in a week. He destroyed two doors on me in the first few weeks of living here too. He had been in a home which was inner city with a backyard big enough to park a car in and nothing else. So he was a house dog. First day I went to work, I came home and he had destroyed a set of wooden double doors. I figured he wasn't used to being outside, so set the house up so they could access the laundry. He destroyed the door from the laundry into the house. 

So, I then put in a doggy door and allowed him access to the house. He's happier now when I leave. But he is not happy when I leave. He hates it. Sometimes I will have to carry him out to the back area of the house when I leave as he will not get off the bed as he knows I am leaving. 

So I guess I am saying, while not to the same degree, I have a dog with separation anxiety also. 

But reading back through your post, all the anxiety disappeared at one point. That was when he went on holidays to the farm. At the farm, he went out working with his foster dad every day. Till that fateful time when they went on holidays and changed my world again. Then when he went back, he was locked in the house by himself for some reason?

So reading all that makes me think the dog is feeling like the pack has left it behind. As to a solution, one is to get another Vizsla or another dog of similar nature like a pointer. Another is to let the dog sleep on the bed. I know that sounds like you're capitulating, but it sounds like the dog is very insecure whenever it is by itself. In a thunder storm, cover the crate with a blanket so it is pitch black. And as others have suggested lots of cushions and blankets they can burrow under to feel more secure.

Also, reading the post, it sounds like when the dog went to the farm, it had loads of time to run around. Perhaps ramping up the exercise regime may also help. A tired dog doesn't have the mental energy to devote to stressing out over things. 

The suggestions of enlisting some assistance from a Behaviourist is also a sensible path to go down. They will be able to view the behaviour, rather than reading between the lines on an internet forum post, thus giving perhaps a more informed point of view than we can provide. All be it, some of the suggestions so far have been great and may also assist in helping pup with his fear.


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## Rogue

Thanks for responding Ozkar. My post was pretty long, probably a reflection of my own stress levels at this point!! your post is very timely. Rogue is still at the farm and I just had a conversation with his new owners who are now back from their holiday. When they left for their holiday, the left a happy dog. Since they have been back (about two weeks now), he has been a very stressed dog. I actually saw him in the first week they were away and he was so calm and relaxed. Then he stayed with one of their parents and on that day, the storm hit and he was alone, he destroyed windows and doors and escaped. Since then, he has been on high anxiety. I am starting to realise this pattern of behaviour is always triggered by storms, and then the stress lasts a few months, and it incorporates severe separation anxiety. They have not said 100% they want to send him back, but I think that is where this is heading. 

I think you are right that he really needs his pack when he is feeling this way - I just can't get a second dog at this point when I am expecting a second baby in four weeks. I can't manage it. But I am open to the idea of putting him right next to the bed on my husbands side, or even let him sleep on the bed, at our feet. He does well in a crate so long as someone is sleeping next to him, so maybe even putting the crate right next to the bed ? (to contain him and stop him waking the baby up, as when he is stressed he paces, pants and whines). I will also take your suggestion and cover the crate more then I have been, see if that works. 

Thanks for your suggestions and insight into your own dogs behaviours, it is nice to know I am not alone. Good luck with your puppy, I hope Astro settles down.


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## Ozkar

Astro is really good now. He is over those issues. He still likes to be with me, but now accepts the work routine and as soon as I am in my suit and ready to leave, he just wanders out to the back of the house himself. Having his playmate Zsa Zsa with him certainly helps though. I know with a baby coming a puppy is just not on the agenda, but what about a re-home? An adult dog? One already trained? It's no more work walking one than two and no more work feeding one than two. I have 2.5, the .5 being my eldest boy Ozkar who I only have two days a week. I don't find it any more work having an extra one or even an extra two, than just looking after one.


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## R E McCraith

Ozkar! you wear a suit? that scares me! LOL- luv your post's!


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## Ozkar

I'm a bit of a dichotomy REM! Born and bred on a farm. Kicked to the curb at 14. Finished my schooling while doing two or three part time jobs. Some involved "assisting" in relocating "Packages" for "friends". :-[ But at 14, I just had to survive. Then once out of school worked my ginger off for 6 years and then started my own business. Teaching a certain industry of business owners, how to run there business. That developed into training staff and now some days I wear a suit, other days jeans and a T. Just depends on who is in front of me. Much happier in the Jeans and a T but.  

Hate the city, but can't make the money in the bush that I do here. Once I pull back on work a bit, then I will have a sea change. Somewhere close to Paradise beach in Gippsland Victoria I hope. Google it if you want to see it, pretty magical for dog and boy!  Beaches, rivers, wetlands (Ducks), grasslands (Quail), and mountains half an hour away (Deer). So hunting wise it would be PFG too. 

REM, I feel the same about your posts too, I usually have a chuckle. Our posts are usually at opposite ends of the spectrum though, with you succinct to the extreme and me verbose to the max!!!  

Isn't if nice how each member can be enjoyed for what they bring. You and RBD and LS and a few others who hunt give us that side of things, you keep me laughing with your dry sense of humour. Are you an ex pat Aussie by chance, cause your as funny as f--k!  

Then you have all the other wonderful personalities on here that bring a smile to your face because they are so kind, gentle, innocent, cheeky, sensible, rational, irrational. Then there's those who just talk ****.... like me  Have a good one!


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## Moose

So? how is it going with Rogue? Moose and Rogue must have been related in a past life. 

We are trying to find a solution to Moose's anxieties also- he doesn't destroy or escape, but pants, paces,drools, goes into the kids rooms, gets on their beds in fear , walks backwards through certain doors, walks backwards up 2 steps before turning around to continue up the stairs , goes into the bathroom forwards and then has to backup to exit [we keep joking that we need to make a movie of him doing it, and doing the "beep,beep,beep" sound trucks make when reversing!!] the whole bit. There's a corner in my 2yr old's room that somehow seems to give Moose much relief, of whatever is stressing him out. but we don't know what triggers it for the most part, it's not thunderstorms or seperation...it's life. 

:-\


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