# Growling and barking at us with the head down



## adrino (Mar 31, 2012)

Hi everybody! I'm new to this forum so please be kind.  

Me and my partner have a 20 weeks old vizsla puppy Elza. She's with us since 8 weeks old. She is so lovely and lively most of all but also a little too much sometimes. And that means barking and growling at us on different occasions. This can happen when I have my breakfast (I always try to eat first before feeding her!) or rather when I drink from a cup.  My partner said the same she does it to him as well. But not every time, so I don't really know why one day and not the other... She also growls when we just sit on the sofa relaxing (she is allowed on it but only if she sits first and stays calm, no play time up there) and she probably wants something else (ATTENTION I guess!), we do play with her while we sit on the sofa, just throw her toys around things like that, but if I try to tell her to keep quiet she will start to bark soon after that and doesn't seem to stop at all. Sometimes I just end up closing her out of the room for a bit , then let her back in when she's quiet. But still, the next day or next time it happens again. It's hard not to get frustrated. I know it doesn't help...
If she does something I don't agree with and I tell her to NO she also starts to growl and from that to bark. Mostly head low tail wagging nervously. I try to follow through but then she runs away while i follow then she probably feels cornered in and that seems to make it even worse, but then how am I supposed to follow through? 
So not doing very well on the discipline. I never pet her when she's behaving like that, and never treat her either. Even if I can see the signs when she will start to growl and bark I try to tell her no before she starts off but that doesn't work either. 
Any suggestions would be well appreciated, did any of you have/had any similar problem? :-[

Thanks


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

Hi, adrino, and welcome to the forums! It's been a very long time since I've raised a puppy, so I'm hoping someone else will give you some good advice. I acquired my last two dogs as young adults, already trained. 

Anyhow, the one thing I was wondering about is if Elza is getting enough regular, age-appropriate exercise. The saying goes, "A tired dog is a well-behaved dog." It's something to consider... not that you should overdo it, either, because she's still pretty young. Hoping that someone else will chime in! ;D


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## adrino (Mar 31, 2012)

Hi mswhipple, yes I think we give her plenty exercise. She gets an hour walk with me at the mornings and then another hour with my partner at the afternoons. And a few small peepoo breaks too. That's already quite a lot for such a young vizsla, she does have the energy but I don't want to overtire her and then have problems later in her life with joints... She meets with other dogs in the park but only few has similar energy level to play with her, but of course I don't stop her to run around. Training also goes better at the end of the walks, when she's already tired. At home we also play with her so she gets the exercise indoor too. Thanks for your reply, hopefully others join in too. : oh just one more thing, this is usually happens before the walk or right after it. We have breakfast first then the walk, so she has to wait a bit before we go out.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Its hard to say for sure after reading you description but she may be growling and barking for attention. She is going to have to learn patiences or things could get rough when she gets older. I would start putting a leash on her in the house. The last thing you want to do is chase her. She is going to get real fast in no time. Teach her sit and buy her a pad to leave in the livingroom and teach her place. Its ok to use treats when teaching a new command. Then start teaching her to sit before she gets to eat or goes through a doorway behind you. Teaching her place will help when she is doing something that you don't care for. Remember she is young and it will hard for her at first. So keep any sit or place command short where she can succeed. I took a bone and ran a rope through it and attached it to a pad when mine were young. That made place a good thing.
Check out the NILIF program.
http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm


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## VictoriaW (Mar 16, 2011)

Adrino,

I'm a little bit confused by your post. Is she GROWLING AT YOU, aggressively??? Or is she talking and yapping because she wants to play?

It may be that she needs to be taught that you would like her to chill out and be quiet.  

I am attempting to link to a video of Gracie that we took a few months ago -- not exactly sure when, but she may have been about the age of your pup now. In the clip, she is on the opposite side of a baby gate and not happy about it. I had just taught her to "shush" the previous week, so the little video was my attempt to document her itty-bitty progress.

You'll see that she is doing some "growling", although I would not have called it that because it is all in play. Ignoring her was getting me more and more barking. But "shush" told her to what TO do -- lie down and be quiet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQgiOxCsFGY

Clicker training is a GREAT way to reinforce the behavior that you want. Vizslas take to it well -- they are smart and want to please, they just do not always know how. Puppies don't show up knowing that people like them to be calm when they are sitting on the couch. 

You can Google around and get detailed instructions for teaching shush, but the upshot is that you (counter-intuitively) teach SPEAK first, clicking for barking on command. Once she is a pro at that, you induce barking then order SHUSH. The dog will be surprised and stop barking to look at you quizzically. Click and treat that look! Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

In general, mark and reward puppy for lying down when you are relaxing...for putting her head down on her paws...for sighing or otherwise relaxing in any way. Over time, you will get less of the behavior you don't want and more of the behavior you DO want. "Discipline" can be about teaching her how to act...not just trying to coerce her into laying off the "bad" behavior.

I highly recommend Cricket Mara's spt yahoo group on positive puppy training. Her files are loaded with info and she is great at trouble-shooting specific problems. Subscribe at [email protected].

I hope that this helps, and that your growling problem is not more serious than what I am inferring from your post.

Good luck!
Victoria
(Gracie, 9 months tomorrow)


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## adrino (Mar 31, 2012)

Thanks for your replies so far.
Texasred she knows all the basic commands, she would sit from the 3rd day we had her. Very clever and stubborn too! She has to sit and wait in front of her food until I tell her OK and I can take the food away or stop her eating it anytime without any aggression. She also has to sit in front of the baby gate to the living room before she can come in and she has to sit before we go through doors together on the way to the walk. I taught her the stop-sit command on the leash out in the park too, that helps if she pulls. Also never let her off leash until she sits calmly. She does have a pillow in the living room but when she's in this growling barking mood she barely listens at all, if I try to make her sit she may sit but when I get back what I was doing she would carry on barking. I like the idea of the bone attached to her bed, I may try that!  
VictoriaW, she is growling at me. There is a growl when she plays but that's totally different from this other growling barking. She always looks at me first and I can see her head going lower and there she goes growling and then if I tell her no or quiet she will start to bark. If I stand up to go to her and make her sit, usually she tries to get away and carries on growling or barking. I do understand that this can be for attention but in the meantime I cannot stop her doing so. If I'm having my breakfast she will have to wait until she gets my attention. But it seems it's just that she wants to know whats in my hand and why am I not giving it to her! She always thinks that whatever is in my hand eventually will be hers... 
Just got a clicker a few days ago, haven't used it yet. But not even sure how to use it properly, when exactly am I supposed to click it... :-[ 
I will look into the links and check your video out, thank you for that.  I am also hoping she doesn't develop some aggressiveness. Don't understand why, cos she doesn't growl if I take her food or toys away. Though I had to teach her that but it was quite easy. 
Sorry for the long replies... I'm just trying to explain it fully.


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## Lindsey1420 (Jan 28, 2012)

Adrino, I think I know what you may be talking about. Jack does this with my husband but it is for sure for attention. He will get down with his ass up and tail wagging. This is when is he starting to get to rough with his playing. My husband tries to tell him NO and seat but it only make Jack not listen ever more. When he goes to discipline him Jack takes off making it harder to discipline him. I will be laying in bed hearing this come out and Jack knows he is in trouble. I think I make it harder for my husband when I do do this. Every now and then Jack will do this to me, like once in a blue moon. I know you are not suppose to chase, so I am left confused on what to do.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

The easiest thing to do would be to crate her while your eating. She will still bark but if you wait till your finished eating. Then wait for her to stop barking to let her out. She should start to get the idea.
It sounds like she is trying to demand what she wants and is going to have to learn there are rules to getting things.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Paws extended, head down, bum up, tail wagging, growling and barking. All signals of "Please Mummy or Daddy, pay me some attention" or "Please Mummy and Daddy, I know after this we are going walking..... FFS, hurry up will you".

I don't think you have a real issue as such. Yes, I agree that it can become annoying and I also agree that you should try and curb the behaviour. But always remember, your Vizsla is a dog. They have a different language to us and it sounds like you might need a brail book!!!  

I think you should stay your current course of action, with firm no's and isolation when pup starts up. Be careful not to intimidate pup. If pup runs away while you are correcting, that should signal to you that you may have overstepped it's boundaries of what it considers nice. I know that sounds weak, but a V is a soft hearted dog and sometimes a harsh word is enough to intimidate them. 

Astro my youngest boy had a little of this behaviour when I first got him. But, being persistent with what I wanted him to do soon curbed the behaviour. 

However, even now, if he or Ozkar my older boy want to play, walk, want attention, he will enact similar behaviour. Head down, paws out, bum up, tail wagging and then start with the "Roo roo roo's". To be honest, I kinda like the Roo roo roo's. But, I don;t respond harshly when he does, I tel him no roo roo rooing and now he stops. Just keep practising what you are already doing and I think you will work your way through it. 

Always remember, Vizslas are a very talkative breed. Pup is just talking to you, letting you know what she wants to do.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Ozkar is right some of them are real talkers. There is a difference between one that is talking to you, and one that is demanding something from you. It may sound funny to hear that ,but if you have been around both its easy to tell them apart.
I have one that will talk to me anytime I say her name then ask a question. She will also come talk to me if her ball has rolled under the couch and she needs help getting it out. But its a roo roo roo not barking and demanding.
There is a difference between I'm excited to do something roo roo roo, and a Do It Right Now growl and bark.


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## adrino (Mar 31, 2012)

Hi all, thanks for replies.
Unfortunately its not the tail wagging, bum up paws out playful growl bark. Its angry tail wagging not playful at all (just cos of her tail wagging it doesn't mean its a happy dog). its pretty much threatening but I am not afraid of her, she does not come close and do this into my face she stands back and looks at me from the side and starts to go off. Its pretty much demanding as Texasred mentioned it. saying no to her in that state does literally nothing so I stand up when she does it and tell her to no but that seems to make her even more angry. As I said I am not afraid she will bite me or anything like that, she doesn't show teeth when she does that. I had an English Pointer before Elza, but she hasn't done anything like this so I am a bit confused how to handle it. :-[


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Adrino, at 20 weeks, I highly doubt it is "angry" as you say. Demanding perhaps, but not angry from a 20 week old pup. Yes, train it out of her, but please don;t mistake it as aggression. As it certainly sounds quite normal for a V. It's not anger, it's I want something. Isolate her if ignoring does nothing. 

English Pointers are a different dog. Although still a pointer, they are a much less vocal breed. I still think you are misreading the dogs language.


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## adrino (Mar 31, 2012)

It is probably demanding growl-bark (still I don't want this behaviour from her), I guess I just have to try to ignore it longer or close her out and let her back in when she's quiet again. I will try to catch it once and record it to show you what I mean. Probably just can't explain it very well. : 
How long should I try to ignore it?


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## Looney (Sep 28, 2011)

So you are going to close her out of your site? that's prolly not so wise as they can find things to take that "energy" out on.

Just stand up and give a toy or something to gnaw on to divert that energy to a more postive suitable outlet.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

OK *this is one of those things we need to pay attention to. How we handle it determines how the dog will react later during adolescence*.
20 weeks = 5 months old! It is critical to understand that the baby stage is running out.

Do not make the mistake and allow growling at the pack leader at any age because it is cute and the dog will grow out of it. What is happening here, the dog is training you! However, she is a baby Vizsla girl.
IF you act frightened and step away the lesson the dog learns is "I act this way and I get to do what I want". 

You have 2 options:

1. Leave it and deal with when the pup is older (not good option for average home pet owners - definitely will need pro assistance)

2. Deal with her now in a mild, consistent manner. - All that is done is remove her toy or object and go do some basic obedience like sit, down, _place (go there lie, down, stay and relax - This one could be tricky as it must be enforced repeatedly._ 
WITHOUT TREATS. NO TREATS, PLEASE. It must be done properly, otherwise, it's a waist of time. For example say, "SIT" (firm but not shouting) without any hand gesture, head movement, body movement etc. Use only your voice. This is important because, your voice will play to your advantage once the dog is off-leash, outside.

The main point the dog must learn is that growling is not rewarding as far as getting attention or guarding any object or food, bones, etc.


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## adrino (Mar 31, 2012)

Hi all,

Well it has been a few days and I'm practising with Elza about this issue. She still does it every day once or twice, but now I totally ignore her when she does it and I wait until she stops then I prais her as soon as she sits down. Hopefully with praising the good behaviour and ignoring the bad will give her a little clue that barking doesn't lead anywhere.

Thanks for all the advises!


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)




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