# Kibble Basics and Nutritional Breakdown



## Mogwai (Jun 6, 2017)

First of all I just want to say thank you to all the organizers and active members on this forum. This is my first post but I have been reading for months and have gained so much knowledge and information from all of you. Can't wait to pick up my first Vizsla on Saturday!!! 

With that being said I was curious to what is the ideal nutritional breakdown for puppy chow and how does that change as the puppy grows? We plan on feeding kibble and supplementing with raw accordingly. Either I have read some conflicting advice or am a bit confused. Is it correct to say that the puppies should be started on a low-carb or carb free diet with more carbs being added in after 9-12 months? Also many have recommended 's Natures Variety Instinct and this seems to be a popular brand. The breakdown is 31% Protein, 26% carbs, and 43% fat. Is this an appropriate feed?

Again thank you to all for running a great community!


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

The ideal feed for a puppy is a feed that that puppy thrives on. I know that sounds flippant, but it's the truth. Dogs are omnivores, and can process all kinds of things. There are the camps that preach their way is the best way and tend to hurl insult at another way, such is the keyboard/google/social media expert world in which we live. 
For reference, I tend to shy away from forum, facebook and blogger recommendations and stick to sites that are geared towards learning, like http://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/. I also think this article is quite good, from whole dog journal on carbs https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/13_10/features/Carbohydrates-and-Your-Dog_20103-1.html

Congratulations on your new Pup! If I had one suggestion, don't let it live in bubblewrap.
Best,
Ken


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## Mogwai (Jun 6, 2017)

Ken, 

Great references!!! Exactly what I was looking for! The second article does a great job on differentiating b/t grain-free diets and carb-free diets. 

Thank you for your quick reply!


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## Spy Car (Sep 3, 2014)

WillowyndRanch said:


> The ideal feed for a puppy is a feed that that puppy thrives on. I know that sounds flippant, but it's the truth. Dogs are omnivores, and can process all kinds of things. There are the camps that preach their way is the best way and tend to hurl insult at another way, such is the keyboard/google/social media expert world in which we live.
> For reference, I tend to shy away from forum, facebook and blogger recommendations and stick to sites that are geared towards learning, like http://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/. I also think this article is quite good, from whole dog journal on carbs https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/13_10/features/Carbohydrates-and-Your-Dog_20103-1.html
> 
> Congratulations on your new Pup! If I had one suggestion, don't let it live in bubblewrap.
> ...


The linked article from Whole Dog Journal includes:

*Dogs have no nutritional requirement for dietary carbohydrates. *

Which is the conclusion of the National Research Council, the leading mainstream authority on canine nutrition.

It then satees:

*They [dogs] can get everything they need from a diet that contains only protein and fat.*

Also true. Dogs do not require any carbohydrates in their diet. The reason carbohydrates are included in pet food is to reduce the cost. There is no other good reason.

But at what cost? A study sponsored by a pet food company (Iams) took out-of-shape dogs fed a conventional high-carbohydrate diet and tested their endurance by measuring their VO2 Max scores while running on a treadmill. The results, as expected, were very poor.

The researchers took the same dogs and put them on high-protein/high-fat (low-carb) diets for a time and then re-tested (without making any other changes in these dogs lifestyles).

When re-tested the VO2 Max scores of these dogs soared into near-elite canine athlete levels. This on diet alone.

Why? Because dogs metabolize fats with brilliant efficiency. When fat-burning dogs have an almost inexhaustible supply of energy as fat can be converted to glucose on demand with canines. In contrast, carbohydrate metabolism can cause a spike in blood glycogen levels, but upon exertion, it leads to a crash of energy that can't be restored.

Fat-burning keeps stamina high. Raw fed dogs stay lean (unlike carb fed dogs) and they do not suffer the dental problems that eating sugars and starches causes with kibble fed dogs. No omnivores lack the ability to produce salivary amylase (the enzyme necessary to digest starches). Dogs lack this ability. I'd ask anyone to contrast the teeth of a kibble fed dog with one fed a carb-free PMR style diet and the difference would be obvious.

The science doesn't support any need for carbohydrates in a canine diet. Dogs are not people. They have very different nutritional needs.

Bill


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

One can take a sentence from nearly any article and spin to one's viewpoint. I suggest folks read the *entire *article and decide for themselves. They may find things like



> Ultimately, it will be up to your dog – and your observation skills – to determine what constitutes “too much” and “too little” carbohydrate in his diet; there is no such thing as an “ideal” percentage of carbs in a canine diet.* It totally depends on the dog*, say Sean Delaney, DVM, MS, DACVN, and Sally Perea, DVM, MS, DACVN, veterinary nutritionists with Natura Pet Products. Drs. Delaney and Perea agree that some dogs do well on lower carbohydrate foods and others do not; *it depends on the individual*


Which was entirely my original answer. The best feed is the feed your pup thrives on. I should add - and that you can afford and still feed your family something besides Ramen.

I'd also be very interested in reading the study Bill. I tried briefly to find it on google but only found some regurg inferences. I'd be looking for the actual study, not a blog post about it, as folks tend to cherry pick the parts they like and conveniently omit "the rest of the story." Would you happen to have a link? Not trying to use it to bash, just interested in learning more.

Ken


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