# To Keep or Not To Keep?



## Jasperhootie (Sep 16, 2020)

I really appreciate all the feedback people give on this forum. We are first time owners of a Vizsla. Have had puppies/dogs in the past but none this high maintenance. Jasper will be 5 months old on Christmas and we are still struggling with the idea of rehoming. Our daughter has used a trainer with her dog so we have gotten a great deal of good info on basic training. Jasper is potty trained and sleeps in a crate very well. He does all basis commands and then some. He always makes eye contact and waits for approval going thru thresholds. One conflicting comment I hear over and over is regarding the use of treats. Everything he has learned was with using treats. But, then we hear he is not doing what you ask to please you, but only to get the treat. In some ways it's true that when I call him, he's very obedient when food is involved, otherwise he doesn't always respond. Food is a HIGH motivator for him. He never has a problem when we touch his food when eating or get near him, however I recently gave him a chew bone from the store. Very tasty apparently because 15 minutes later when I told him to drop it he really growled at me and appeared as though he would bite me!!!!!. Freaked me out. He wouldn't let it go and ran off. Getting him to let go or drop items is challenging anyway. One time he swallowed whole a one-inch diameter slider. I tried everything to get him to drop it. Finally I put a treat down on the floor thinking he would drop it to eat the treat and instead he swallowed them both down together. He's ok, but haven't seen it come out the other end yet! We have been reprimanded for letting him sit on the sofa with us, saying it puts him on our level.
But, last night was really most difficult, when a friend I know felt this type of dog may not be the best choice for just a family dog. He is a hunter and has had 2 Vizsla's. Because they are such high energy, he felt it wasn't fair to the dog. I just cried. I will say I feel like my life has just revolved around Jasper trying to make sure he is getting enough activity and stimulation. There are days I just feel so tired and defeated. Like this is not fun. But, he is still so young. I walk him at least 1 hour/day, he plays with a neighbors dog 1-2x/week, take him to doggie day care 1x/week as well as the time I spend in and out in the yard playing with him or teaching him stuff. Rainy days are the worst when we are cooped up inside. We never had to put this much energy into a dog before and there are times we feel we will not make it. I do not work so I am with him most of the time. My husband also takes him for walks after he gets off work and gives me time away from him on the weekends. Maybe it's just so much all at once and I'm not being patient enough.
I'm not a very large person so I do have concerns of handling him when he gets twice the size. I use a prong collar to walk him and it helps tremendously. I just need encouragement and to know I can handle him physically. Getting him to obey is so important and to drop items from his mouth.
Thank you for reading all this and your support.

I wasn't really sure how to post this so I randomly chose the recipients. I hope this will get published


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I very good behaviorist works with one of the rescues, I foster for. I know she does teleconference. It might be worth while getting in touch with her, on his resource guarding of high-value treats.
Her name is Beth, and her company is Rehab Your Rescue. 

While I am a hunter, and do hunt over my dogs. I've seen plenty of the dogs lead a wonderful life, and they are never trained to hunt. Try to find something fun, that you and him enjoy. They need exercise, and mental stimulation, but it does not have to be bird hunting.


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## Gabica (Jan 20, 2018)

When i train new skills for my dogs, i start with food, then i switch to toys and then just love. But certain things we have as a routine with food and that is fine, like running to the crate when i need to get out of the house and tossing a piece of treat for them. Before Covid we did lots of classroom training and always used plenty of small cut yummy treats, even at competition training classes that is a must. Or for dogs which are not food motivated you would see the owners using toys.
For the lack of hunting point of view, he is young and you could still learn it, even if you have never had a gun in your hand for your entire life. Be aware though, it is addictive, as it is very pleasing and relaxing to see them hunt. 
My worry is more that you are not talking about the enjoyment and love and sweetness what this breed tends to show, and at 5 months old when they are already crate and potty trained while they usually show some adolescent behavior, they are also equally bonded and goofiness and fun. lots of fun. and making you forget any stress they may have caused during their next nap time.
the choice of a prong collar for a young pup like this is questionable for me too. 
if you feel that this is not the right breed for you i would start the rehoming immediately, at 5 months he still has a good chance, it will get harder as he get more into the adolescent age.


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## organicthoughts (Oct 9, 2012)

Your friend is wrong. A vizsla while ideally is in a hunting home, can certainly live a fantastic life as a pet; having said that they do need significant exercise but I don't think you are doing anything wrong in terms of exercise right now as young dogs should always be exercised conservatively. One thing about rainy days.... time to get some real good rain gear so you can get out with the dog - he will still need a good off leash run no matter the weather.

It will get easier. My vizsla was super high strung as a youngster - he is 8 now and missing a day of hiking is no sweat for him and doesn't affect his mood at all. Vizsla's do noticeably mellow around the 2-4 year old mark but they do need around 1 hour of exercise everyday.

You can certainly do it but it takes commitment especially in the earlier years so that your household remains balanced. The reward is an unbelievable, loving companion and family pet.

Positive reinforcement training is great for teaching commands but now that your dog is disobeying you, get prepared to figuring out a way to negatively reinforce this disobeying behaviour - that's up to you what you are comfortable with but having your pup drag a leash in the house would allow you to do a little tug on the leash to get his attention. The growling is akin to a teenager testing boundaries - this needs to be nipped in the bud; make him feel safe to give stuff up to you, at this point focus on trading when you want something from him and start with items that are significantly higher in value then what you are trying to take from him. Make him feel that things are plentiful and he's not at risk of losing awesome things; he is still learning and forming his sense of safety.

Also, I'm worried about this "slider". What is that? If you haven't seen it come out and it's been a few days, I'd be concerned.


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## InTheNet (Jun 1, 2016)

Don't give up yet
. In my limited experience 6-7 months is when things start to get better /easier.
Our first pup was no problem with resource guarding EXCEPT for cow leg bones. He did not bite, but he let you know that the bone was his. His normal food/treats/antlers no problem. 

Exercise is a key. Off leash walks /runs. 

Our new pup is almost 6 months and I can see the final version of him starting to come ou.t.


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## Jasperhootie (Sep 16, 2020)

texasred said:


> I very good behaviorist works with one of the rescues, I foster for. I know she does teleconference. It might be worth while getting in touch with her, on his resource guarding of high-value treats.
> Her name is Beth, and her company is Rehab Your Rescue.
> 
> While I am a hunter, and do hunt over my dogs. I've seen plenty of the dogs lead a wonderful life, and they are never trained to hunt. Try to find something fun, that you and him enjoy. They need exercise, and mental stimulation, but it does not have to be bird hunting.


That sounds like some good advice. We have some in our area and I will reach out.


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## Jasperhootie (Sep 16, 2020)

organicthoughts said:


> Your friend is wrong. A vizsla while ideally is in a hunting home, can certainly live a fantastic life as a pet; having said that they do need significant exercise but I don't think you are doing anything wrong in terms of exercise right now as young dogs should always be exercised conservatively. One thing about rainy days.... time to get some real good rain gear so you can get out with the dog - he will still need a good off leash run no matter the weather.
> 
> It will get easier. My vizsla was super high strung as a youngster - he is 8 now and missing a day of hiking is no sweat for him and doesn't affect his mood at all. Vizsla's do noticeably mellow around the 2-4 year old mark but they do need around 1 hour of exercise everyday.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the encouragement. We have decided to keep this little guy. Yesterday we had him in doggie day care all day and he was a different dog all night. So relaxed and actually snuggling us!!! No nipping.  He really is a smart pup. If the negative stuff continues we plan to reach out to a trainer. Sometimes I think I just get overwhelmed being with him all day all by myself. It really helps when my husband gets off work early so I can leave him to do simple things without worrying he is getting into something. 

That slider thing was a concern. It happened about 6-7 weeks ago. It is one of those things you put on the bottom of your furniture so it slides easier. We have tile floors. It was a small one that he got off. We watched him VERY closely for the next 24-48 hours and nothing; no problems. The vet said just keep a look out. Maybe it passed, but we haven't seen it.
Thank you for taking the time to respond. We really appreciate it. God bless.


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## InTheNet (Jun 1, 2016)

A tired Vizsla is a good Vizsla!
He came home from day care tired and happy.


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## Jasperhootie (Sep 16, 2020)

Gabica said:


> When i train new skills for my dogs, i start with food, then i switch to toys and then just love. But certain things we have as a routine with food and that is fine, like running to the crate when i need to get out of the house and tossing a piece of treat for them. Before Covid we did lots of classroom training and always used plenty of small cut yummy treats, even at competition training classes that is a must. Or for dogs which are not food motivated you would see the owners using toys.
> For the lack of hunting point of view, he is young and you could still learn it, even if you have never had a gun in your hand for your entire life. Be aware though, it is addictive, as it is very pleasing and relaxing to see them hunt.
> My worry is more that you are not talking about the enjoyment and love and sweetness what this breed tends to show, and at 5 months old when they are already crate and potty trained while they usually show some adolescent behavior, they are also equally bonded and goofiness and fun. lots of fun. and making you forget any stress they may have caused during their next nap time.
> the choice of a prong collar for a young pup like this is questionable for me too.
> if you feel that this is not the right breed for you i would start the rehoming immediately, at 5 months he still has a good chance, it will get harder as he get more into the adolescent age.


I've been having Jasper do commands without food and for the most part he is doing great. I sometimes put a small treat on the floor and tell him to sit and stay. I walk away short distances to see if he will learn and he does great. So I hope to use the treat as I increase the distance or even go out of sight. I heard that is necessary for a therapy dog. I figured it was something to work towards. I can't imagine teaching this without a treat. 
My husband and I have had more discussions about keeping Jasper and we really want him. I met a man yesterday at doggie day care with an 18 month old Vizsla and he was very encouraging.. He said doggie day care has really helped a lot for his dog to get interaction with other dogs and run off some energy. I notice a big difference in Jaspers behavior after taking him there for a day. I'm sure once we get into a routine it will get better. Thank you for you response. It really is appreciated. God bless.


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## ana19 (Jun 26, 2020)

Jasperhootie said:


> We have been reprimanded for letting him sit on the sofa with us, saying it puts him on our level.


That's just stupid, please don't not let him on the sofa because you think he will "not respect you" or "dominate you" or "try to take over the world one bed at a time". Dominance theory has been debunked for so long and I can't believe people still believe in that thing.

About the resource guarding issue, read the book "Mine!" by Jean Donaldson.

And when it's raining you can always go for some mental stimulation through KONGs, scentwork (hiding his food around the house and letting him find it), scatter feeding on a snuffle mat, teaching him new things or even playing tug. 

And on the subject of him not listening without rewards... well I just look at it like the dog needs to get his paycheck. You don't work for free, why would he?


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

Breathe, Breathe, Breathe!!!
You're not doing anything wrong. People have been debating the treats for performance issues since the first dog came into to a cave. At the end of the day, he is YOUR DOG!! he will spend the next 12-14 years in your care, not anyone else's. How you treat him is up to you.
Your friend is wrong, to put it bluntly!! Many, many, thousands of Vizlsas have lived loving, caring, complete, lives in the inner cities of Boston and New York. I have known Vizlsas that never saw a hunting field or the woods, and they were fine. No reason your boy cannot be also.
For perspective, I have had Vizlsas for 30+ years, and my current guy, Finn, is only now, in the past month or so, finally accepting pets. Prior to this, every "pet" or "cuddle" session, was an invitation for a WWW event.
Until Finn was about a year old he was hard headed, obstinate, strong willed, socially reactive. In other words, Finn was ill behaved. We alll struggle, we all fail, and eventually we find a way to communicate with these amazing dogs.
At 5 months old, with the treat you gave him, what you saw was an instinctive response. It was natural, unnerving and disquieting, but natural. Nothing you did was wrong, but at the end of the day, he is a dog.
My advice is to find a structured, training class, or maybe some private instruction. You will need to "wean" him off the treats only, because there are holes that will develop. it doesn't mean to stop the treats, but to use them in conjunction with more disciplined training methods and reward the positive only. There are volumes to this subject.
Hang in there, get some training help, and build upon what you have already established. You do not realize how close you are to success. there are some "tweeks" required, and some philosophy changes necessary, but you are close. Much, much closer than you are giving yourself credit for.
He is only 5 months old. Still very, very, much a puppy mentally. Physically he is very gifted, but mentally he is still very immature.
If I would offer you one piece of advice to try, it would be to put him a harness, and not the prong collar. Maybe use both in the beginning, but try to transition him off the prong collar, to a standard "D-Ring" safety collar and harness. Not to say he won't need the prong collar, but at 5 months, it may be too soon.
Most of all Breathe!!! You are not a bad person.You are just struggling like everyone else does from time to time. Unfortunately, these dogs do not come with an instruction manual.


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## LMP (Oct 25, 2020)

Jasperhootie said:


> I really appreciate all the feedback people give on this forum. We are first time owners of a Vizsla. Have had puppies/dogs in the past but none this high maintenance. Jasper will be 5 months old on Christmas and we are still struggling with the idea of rehoming. Our daughter has used a trainer with her dog so we have gotten a great deal of good info on basic training. Jasper is potty trained and sleeps in a crate very well. He does all basis commands and then some. He always makes eye contact and waits for approval going thru thresholds. One conflicting comment I hear over and over is regarding the use of treats. Everything he has learned was with using treats. But, then we hear he is not doing what you ask to please you, but only to get the treat. In some ways it's true that when I call him, he's very obedient when food is involved, otherwise he doesn't always respond. Food is a HIGH motivator for him. He never has a problem when we touch his food when eating or get near him, however I recently gave him a chew bone from the store. Very tasty apparently because 15 minutes later when I told him to drop it he really growled at me and appeared as though he would bite me!!!!!. Freaked me out. He wouldn't let it go and ran off. Getting him to let go or drop items is challenging anyway. One time he swallowed whole a one-inch diameter slider. I tried everything to get him to drop it. Finally I put a treat down on the floor thinking he would drop it to eat the treat and instead he swallowed them both down together. He's ok, but haven't seen it come out the other end yet! We have been reprimanded for letting him sit on the sofa with us, saying it puts him on our level.
> But, last night was really most difficult, when a friend I know felt this type of dog may not be the best choice for just a family dog. He is a hunter and has had 2 Vizsla's. Because they are such high energy, he felt it wasn't fair to the dog. I just cried. I will say I feel like my life has just revolved around Jasper trying to make sure he is getting enough activity and stimulation. There are days I just feel so tired and defeated. Like this is not fun. But, he is still so young. I walk him at least 1 hour/day, he plays with a neighbors dog 1-2x/week, take him to doggie day care 1x/week as well as the time I spend in and out in the yard playing with him or teaching him stuff. Rainy days are the worst when we are cooped up inside. We never had to put this much energy into a dog before and there are times we feel we will not make it. I do not work so I am with him most of the time. My husband also takes him for walks after he gets off work and gives me time away from him on the weekends. Maybe it's just so much all at once and I'm not being patient enough.
> I'm not a very large person so I do have concerns of handling him when he gets twice the size. I use a prong collar to walk him and it helps tremendously. I just need encouragement and to know I can handle him physically. Getting him to obey is so important and to drop items from his mouth.
> Thank you for reading all this and your support.
> ...


Based on the comment that you are with him most of the time and get breaks on weekends/evenings when your husband takes him I’m making the assumption that he doesn’t spend much time in a kennel or crate. I would strongly consider crate training or kennel training as it helps them learn to be alone with themselves, which in turn helps them to settle by themselves even when they are out of a crate. Also it gives you a break when you need it or need to make sure he isn’t getting into things. It has made a world of difference with our young Vizsla, the structure has made a noticeable difference in the house. Feed in the crate, praise when he is quiet and settling, drop treats in periodically, vary the amount of time (2 min, 5 min, 1 hr, etc so he doesn’t always think he is going in there forever).


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## tegee26 (Apr 25, 2018)

We found "structured" professional training to be a good start. Our, now 3-yr male, was in structured training since day one and he still knows all the commands and is a very discipled V. Our 1-yr old female has been a bit of a struggle, most because I thought I could "wing it", but I was wrong. Even though I was coming off training with our male I thought I had all the knowledge to train our female. Even though she's a fantatstic V in every way, she has definitely developed some bad behaviors. And we've let her get away with it because she is so darn good in so many other ways. But we've now learned that she needs a bit more discipline.

So the long and short of it, from our experience with two V's, is definitely look into group/classroom training in your area. Even it is the most basic of commands, etc. As Gunnr, it is small tweaks and tricks that you'll learn that will make all the difference.

Unfortunately, from our 3-years of V ownership, is they are very needy dogs and do require a bit more getting used to. They quite simply love being with their owners and want to be by our side 24/7. But now that we have them in our lives we wouldn't change it for the world. We owned Labs for the past 25+ years and now that we own V's that are an exceptional companion.

Hope this helped and hang in there. Milo's now 3-years old and a perfect V in every aspect.


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## Jasperhootie (Sep 16, 2020)

ana19 said:


> That's just stupid, please don't not let him on the sofa because you think he will "not respect you" or "dominate you" or "try to take over the world one bed at a time". Dominance theory has been debunked for so long and I can't believe people still believe in that thing.
> 
> About the resource guarding issue, read the book "Mine!" by Jean Donaldson.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your response. I love what you have to say!!! He really is a smart pup and learns so quickly. Makes it fun teaching him new things. The treats make it possible.


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## Jasperhootie (Sep 16, 2020)

tegee26 said:


> We found "structured" professional training to be a good start. Our, now 3-yr male, was in structured training since day one and he still knows all the commands and is a very discipled V. Our 1-yr old female has been a bit of a struggle, most because I thought I could "wing it", but I was wrong. Even though I was coming off training with our male I thought I had all the knowledge to train our female. Even though she's a fantatstic V in every way, she has definitely developed some bad behaviors. And we've let her get away with it because she is so darn good in so many other ways. But we've now learned that she needs a bit more discipline.
> 
> So the long and short of it, from our experience with two V's, is definitely look into group/classroom training in your area. Even it is the most basic of commands, etc. As Gunnr, it is small tweaks and tricks that you'll learn that will make all the difference.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your response. Jasper has learned so many things since our daughter took her dog to a trainer. But, we thought we would get some advanced training to really get his behavior consistent. We love him so much and feel he is worth it.


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## Jasperhootie (Sep 16, 2020)

gunnr said:


> Breathe, Breathe, Breathe!!!
> You're not doing anything wrong. People have been debating the treats for performance issues since the first dog came into to a cave. At the end of the day, he is YOUR DOG!! he will spend the next 12-14 years in your care, not anyone else's. How you treat him is up to you.
> Your friend is wrong, to put it bluntly!! Many, many, thousands of Vizlsas have lived loving, caring, complete, lives in the inner cities of Boston and New York. I have known Vizlsas that never saw a hunting field or the woods, and they were fine. No reason your boy cannot be also.
> For perspective, I have had Vizlsas for 30+ years, and my current guy, Finn, is only now, in the past month or so, finally accepting pets. Prior to this, every "pet" or "cuddle" session, was an invitation for a WWW event.
> ...


Great advice. The breathing and all of it.  We are decreasing the treats. I mainly use them when teaching a new trick now. Yesterday he learned to pick up his toys and put them in his bucket. So fun. My friends said their kids don't even do that. LOL. We will try to wean the prong collar. And we hope to get further training hopefully after the first of the year to improve his walking without pulling and general obedience.


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## Kpl (Aug 30, 2020)

Jasperhootie said:


> Thank you for the encouragement. We have decided to keep this little guy. Yesterday we had him in doggie day care all day and he was a different dog all night. So relaxed and actually snuggling us!!! No nipping.  He really is a smart pup. If the negative stuff continues we plan to reach out to a trainer. Sometimes I think I just get overwhelmed being with him all day all by myself. It really helps when my husband gets off work early so I can leave him to do simple things without worrying he is getting into something.
> 
> That slider thing was a concern. It happened about 6-7 weeks ago. It is one of those things you put on the bottom of your furniture so it slides easier. We have tile floors. It was a small one that he got off. We watched him VERY closely for the next 24-48 hours and nothing; no problems. The vet said just keep a look out. Maybe it passed, but we haven't seen it.
> Thank you for taking the time to respond. We really appreciate it. God bless.
> [/QUOT


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## Kpl (Aug 30, 2020)

I was exactly where you are two months ago (our dog is 6 months old today, and is light years better than he was just a few months ago). To be perfectly honest, if I could go back in time I would have probably gone with another breed. He is way more work than any dog we’ve ever had. 

But, of course we love him and are now in it for the long haul. There were many days of crying and wondering if we should rehome him. You’ve already found that daycare is a huge help- I don’t know what we’d do without it! We live in a place where we cannot go for off leash runs, and the daycare really wears him out, gets him
Socialization, and gives us a break. You’re much farther along in training than we are as we both work, and due to Covid there aren’t any group classes. So far we’ve only mastered sir, down, stay, and making progress with the pulling. Give yourself some credit, sounds like you’re doing a great job! I know we’re all waiting for that easier 3 year mark when you can take your eyes off then for 5 seconds without losing a dish towel or your mail, lol!


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## Sarah Ralph (Jul 28, 2021)

Kpl said:


> I was exactly where you are two months ago (our dog is 6 months old today, and is light years better than he was just a few months ago). To be perfectly honest, if I could go back in time I would have probably gone with another breed. He is way more work than any dog we’ve ever had.
> 
> But, of course we love him and are now in it for the long haul. There were many days of crying and wondering if we should rehome him. You’ve already found that daycare is a huge help- I don’t know what we’d do without it! We live in a place where we cannot go for off leash runs, and the daycare really wears him out, gets him
> Socialization, and gives us a break. You’re much farther along in training than we are as we both work, and due to Covid there aren’t any group classes. So far we’ve only mastered sir, down, stay, and making progress with the pulling. Give yourself some credit, sounds like you’re doing a great job! I know we’re all waiting for that easier 3 year mark when you can take your eyes off then for 5 seconds without losing a dish towel or your mail, lol!


Hi how are things going now? 
My V is 13 weeks old and I'm finding it such hard work. I'm at the 'what have I done', 'I'm never going to be able to relax in my own house again' stage! 
Has it got alot easier for you as he got older?


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## Kpl (Aug 30, 2020)

Sarah Ralph said:


> Hi how are things going now?
> My V is 13 weeks old and I'm finding it such hard work. I'm at the 'what have I done', 'I'm never going to be able to relax in my own house again' stage!
> Has it got alot easier for you as he got older?


Yes! It’s much much better. My dog requires a lot of attention- I think they’re all like that, but basically for us a typical day is a long walk (35-45 min) in the morning, with 3-4 short play periods in our yard throughout the day- about 10 min each time with the flirt pole and balls. We have a big yard, but if it’s hot he doesn’t feel like running much. We can leave him alone in a room for a while and he is a very good boy, but occasionally does naughty things, like he destroyed the remote yesterday. But that’s rare. He’s 13 months old now. He’s very sweet and I adore him. I still would have picked a different breed if I could go back in time.. just because I’m almost 50 and sometimes I feel lazy and think he deserves to be with someone who hikes and kayaks and does more exciting things! As far as the puppy stage, I do remember the first 5 months being AWFUL. It’s better at four months, and then much better at 6 months.


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## Kpl (Aug 30, 2020)

Kpl said:


> Yes! It’s much much better. My dog requires a lot of attention- I think they’re all like that, but basically for us a typical day is a long walk (35-45 min) in the morning, with 3-4 short play periods in our yard throughout the day- about 10 min each time with the flirt pole and balls. We have a big yard, but if it’s hot he doesn’t feel like running much. We can leave him alone in a room for a while and he is a very good boy, but occasionally does naughty things, like he destroyed the remote yesterday. But that’s rare. He’s 13 months old now. He’s very sweet and I adore him. I still would have picked a different breed if I could go back in time.. just because I’m almost 50 and sometimes I feel lazy and think he deserves to be with someone who hikes and kayaks and does more exciting things! As far as the puppy stage, I do remember the first 5 months being AWFUL. It’s better at four months, and then much better at 6 months.


When we’re not playing or walking, he’s sleeping or just looking out the window or lying at our feet. You definitely get to relax again.


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## Sarah Ralph (Jul 28, 2021)

Kpl said:


> When we’re not playing or walking, he’s sleeping or just looking out the window or lying at our feet. You definitely get to relax again.


Ah this makes me feel sooo much better! That's what I want to hear. 
I feel as if at the moment he's either asleep (which isn't enough, I need to get him crate trained so he can relax more) or full throttle jumping on the furniture, chewing things, grabbing things he shouldn't and running away. I'm trying to work from home and have two children on school holidays at the moment so I feel I have reached the end of my tether today ha. I'm trying to train him not to do these things but I suppose it takes time and I have to be patient. If I know I will be able to relax in the future and he will chill on his own then I think I can do it. I had visions of a crazy dog doing all of these things for the next 5 years! 
Thanks very much for your reply, I appreciate it.


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