# 9 week old growling -- dominance issue?



## funster24 (Apr 28, 2012)

Our nine week old vizsla girl has taken to growling at us when we try to redirect her from unacceptable behaviors or actions. For instance, we had (have since repaired) a hole under our porch that she was constantly trying to go under. I would pick her up and take her away and she would growl at me while I did that. She has also growled at my husband when he has taken her out of similar situations. We are not even talking about anything where we've tried to disclipline, simply picking her up and taking her away from something she wants to do. 

There doesn't seem to be an issue with food aggression. We have taken to handfeeding her all of her meals- family members taking turns handfeeding her after getting her to sit. She is very soft-mouthed then and not aggressive. We are doing this to establish dominance/alpha over her but also it's been a fun training and bonding technique.

She is just as bite-y as others with young pups have said on this forum, and while we believe she is engaging in a normal amount of this, we are obviously still trying to work on bite inhibition with all the usual techniques. We are meeting with some degree of success, really depending on where she is in the puppy spaz cycle for the day. When she is in high-spaz/bite mode there is not much we can do to deter her and if we gently try to control her by holding her muzzle closed (nothing harsh, no yelling) she eventually relents/gives up but then instantly resumes once we free her mouth. She sometimes growls then as well.

I am worried about threading that needle to achieve control over her dominant tendencies but not treat her harshly due to the sensitive nature of the breed.

Is the growling normal? This concerns me. Any advice on how to curtail this, establish dominance and how to achieve success with bite inhibition. We have tried the muzzle thing, saying no bite and providing an acceptable alternative to chew on, walking away and ignoring, crying out "ow," you name it. Anything else?


----------



## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

Yes it's normal.
At 9 weeks old any "physical discipline" would be bad. 
Pick her up, and put her in her crate for a timeout.
It'll take, oh.... a couple hundred repetitions over the next 6-8 months, but she'll catch on. 

Vizslas are very focused dogs, even at a young age. It's what makes them successful hunting dogs. They act like hyperactive little spazs', but there really is an instinctual, developmental purpose to what they are doing.
She sounds like a nice normal, healthy girl. No worries.


----------



## ryker (Apr 14, 2012)

I fee your pain 

Our little guy is 14 weeks and we tried everything you have. The only thing that worked is using his desire to be with us, meaning we isolated him for 30-60 seconds when he was biting and flipping out. Sometimes we had to do it three or four times before he got the clue, but it's the only thing that's worked consistently. As he has grown the need is slowly decreasing. It's like he hasn't figured out how to calm himself down so we have too before he gets really aggressive. It's slowly improving ! 

Let me know if this helps!


----------



## ryker (Apr 14, 2012)

I forgot to say that grabbing his muzzle makes it worse too. And trying to pin him down when he's really really bad also escalates him. In that case we pick him up so he can't move his legs or reach us to bite, like a big bear hug, until he settles. It's what we call his toddler tantrums. Once we calm him he is generally ok, or he falls asleep in our arms  our vet recommended that and it's been a lifesaver.


----------



## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Gunnr said:


> Pick her up, and put her in her crate for a timeout.


That's right. Crate is the place! Let her bark there and only open the door when she is calm. 

In our case, we even sat down in front of the crate and read the newspaper until Sam calmed down. Surprisingly, it only took a week or two at 4 months to catch on. 
Now, at 14 months he is a very good boy and lightly taps the crate door whenever he wants out after a good sleep.


_Glad to see Gunnr back... wish he would post more, again.
All the best _


----------



## dmp (Jan 23, 2012)

My girl hit 9 weeks yesterday and she behaves exactly like this regarding biting/nipping - one day she was all snuggles and lovin' - the next day she
was possessed. After our priest refused to set foot in the house, I went back to the 'No bite!' then the howel...then, "Okay baby, crate time!"

She'll get in there and start with the "OMG YOU MUST HATE ME!!" welping...generally she'll be calm within 5 minutes, and we bring her out.

Stressful times; I tell people a newborn baby would be 10x easier.


----------



## KB87 (Jan 30, 2012)

dmp said:


> My girl hit 9 weeks yesterday and she behaves exactly like this regarding biting/nipping - one day she was all snuggles and lovin' - the next day she
> was possessed.


Her brother is the exact same way!

I swear I saw his head spin around yesterday while he was having a spaz attack. Haeden suddenly has started this "I don't care what I bite but I MUST bite" attitude. Mom and dad have felt his rath too when he turns into his alter ego "destructo." For us it works if we ignore him or leave the room since he's at the age where he craves attention. We're afraid to use the crate as a disciplinary tool so we are going to put a baby gate up in the office so we can put him in there to do a time out. Thus far substituting a toy for our hand also seems to work but sometimes he's so motivated that it does nothing and he still comes at it. But somehow you have to convey it isn't ok, whether it's "no bite" or crate/time out. You just have to figure out what your pup responds more to.


----------



## dmp (Jan 23, 2012)

Hey KB, does Haeden 'gnaw' gingerly on fingers? I've found his sister doing that - when she's stressed, OR right before bed,
she'll want up. I'll hold her and she slowly mouths a finger or two and very nicely sort of..hold them. 

So comforting to know Eva's behaviour isn't completely out of line for the breed.


----------



## KB87 (Jan 30, 2012)

dmp said:


> Hey KB, does Haeden 'gnaw' gingerly on fingers? I've found his sister doing that - when she's stressed, OR right before bed,
> she'll want up. I'll hold her and she slowly mouths a finger or two and very nicely sort of..hold them.
> 
> So comforting to know Eva's behaviour isn't completely out of line for the breed.


Haha. I wouldn't describe anything about Haeden as 'gingerly.' If he's sleepy then he's less psychotic. The closest he gets is when he is waking up he'll give 2 warning licks before he bites your face. Initially he would try to nurse our fingers but now he just bites, albeit, sometimes less hard than other times.

I think you picked the sweetie of the litter.


----------



## Darcy (Jan 30, 2012)

dmp said:


> So comforting to know Eva's behaviour isn't completely out of line for the breed.


dmp, when Darcy was that age he would attach himself to our trouser legs and swing off them growling. It was an absolute nightmare, the only thing that (sort of) worked was walking away (if you could with a vizsla hanging off you!) and that wasn't 100%. 

And then one day it stopped. We suddenly realised that he hadn't done it a while and its never come back (thank god!). One thing that kept me sane during that period was this site and someones (can't remember who now) references to "shark attacks" and their puppy having "attacks of the werewolfs", which at least made me laugh and realise that the possessed thing at my ankles wouldn't be like that forever!


----------



## funster24 (Apr 28, 2012)

Thank you all for your posts. Everything you have said has been very helpful. I know the biting is 100% normal but it is still very comforting to hear that shark attacks are happening with others. 

I am really most concerned about the growling. Ryker, you mentioned the word "aggressive" when describing your pup's behavior. Is it just biting or is there growling involved too? When the biting gets out of control sometimes I have to pick her up just to get her off of me and that's when she starts to thrash, growl/snarl and try to get at me. 

We were attracted to the supposed submissive quality of this breed, so I'm really surprised by the chutzpah on my little broad.


----------



## ryker (Apr 14, 2012)

Thats exactly what happens with us. We pick him up or try to move him off and he snarls, thrashes and growls. In my calmest but firmest tone I say, 'absolutely not,' restrain him against me and put him in isolation for a bit, at least until I regain my composure! He would throw himself against the door at first, it upset him so much. But it works.

I've also learned some of his cues now to pre-empt him. And I make sure he has periodic chill times during play, which has also helped. 

I also never expected these puppies to be so involved! But I sure am crazy for him.


----------



## Albert Rigsby (May 24, 2012)

Been looking at the site but only just registered so I could comment on this post. The biting/growling/going nuts theme struck a chord with us and our 4 month old Rigsby. As with everyone we have tried all of the usual tricks and they have all worked...for a bit and then he ignores them and we have to try something else. The separation seems to work the best as it helps calm him down. Sometimes takes 3 or 4 visits to the cage before he calms down and is normally worse when he's tired. He seems to be getting better but thanks to this site we know it's a long long bitey road.... And we're not at the end yet ! Summarising everyone's advice seem to be :- be consistent and eventually the pup will grow out of it. Have fun !


----------



## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

If LIFE was to be easy - why did God bring a V into our lives ? LOL


----------



## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

Patience, patience, more patience, and lots of wine! (... for you, not the pup  Although I have heard that benadryl calms them down.......  )

Riley is just about 9 months old now and she STILL has her "sharky" times. We just laugh and stuff a toy in her mouth now.


----------



## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

If your pup responds to touch with a grumble try leading them away with an interesting smell. Put treats in your hand and let the pup smell them. Then move your hand away from the object you want them to move away from and say 'Away' as they follow. Once they have moved away give them the treat and praise them. Eventually you won't need the treats and you can just say 'Away'. This way you can start to use the 'Away' command which will be useful in building up their control from staying away from rubbish on the ground when you start to walk them.


----------



## SerCopper (Nov 1, 2011)

Get a clicker. Practice reaching for the spots he doesn't seem to like you touching...if he growls or nips say "ah ah." if he doesn't like and treat, start with click for the slightest touch, then work your way up to longer and firmer touches. Did this with my guy when he didn't like us touching his collar.


----------



## wattymd (Jun 11, 2012)

Hello everyone, thanks for the post. I've been following this forum for a while but just signed up today and this is my first post. We have a 9 week old female V named Keeley who we absolutely love!!! It's so hard to get mad at her b/c she is soooooooo cute.

In terms of the nipping / bitting it seems to be the same with all V's ... they get amped up and love to try and bite everything in there path!! Giving her a toy seems to work a bit although your hand / fingers is sometimes get caught in the crossfire.

We have yet to try the timeout / walking away but that seems to be pretty common so we are going to try that.

What do people think about discipline, in terms of firmly saying no and giving the pup a smack on the nose / mouth. I've also been told to squeeze the dogs nose a little bit. Some people have suggested any type of hitting like this is a really bad idea ... is that true?

This seems to be so common with other breads, just wondering if it's not recommended specifically for V's?

Thanks!


----------



## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Don't hit. You want to be a good leader not a punisher.

The face is off limits in my opinion. They have teeth and if a child goes for their face and they associate a hand coming towards their face as pain they will snap in defense. Not a good thing. You really never have to hit or smack a dog.

Use a leash and get control that way. Take obedience classes and try and find the good ones and not the dime-store versions.

That's my .02. You are the pack leader. Just lead with authority. The dog wants to follow where you take it. You just need to know where YOU are going. Lots of good books on dogs and behavior.

Ian Dunbar is one of the best. Google him. I don't remember the "Before you get your puppy" and "after you get your puppy" links. Maybe someone could help.

RBD


----------



## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

Hitting is never okay. You don't want your puppy to view your hand as a source of pain - that will make playful biting turn to aggressive biting. 



redbirddog said:


> Ian Dunbar is one of the best. Google him. I don't remember the "Before you get your puppy" and "after you get your puppy" links. Maybe someone could help.


http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/after-you-get-your-puppy


----------

