# Puppy training collar



## Catluce

Hello, we are lucky enough to be welcoming a gorgeous male vizsla to our family in a couple of weeks. He will be 8 weeks when he arrives and I would like to obviously start training as soon as possible. What collar/harness would people recommend and roughly what size. Thanks in advance :grin


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## Najo

Catluce said:


> Hello, we are lucky enough to be welcoming a gorgeous male vizsla to our family in a couple of weeks. He will be 8 weeks when he arrives and I would like to obviously start training as soon as possible. What collar/harness would people recommend and roughly what size. Thanks in advance :grin



What did you end up getting? I am doing my new puppy shopping as well. I prefer to train from the start with a harness.


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## gingerling

The best training involves establishing a strong bond, so initially you want to be very consistent and predictable, establish a good routine. Then, you need to be clear with the words you use for various commands, training a V is a matter of them associating your words to their actions. No collar required, at least right away.

When you get a collar, a narrow nylon one is best, it gives you much more control than harnesses.


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## Najo

gingerling said:


> The best training involves establishing a strong bond, so initially you want to be very consistent and predictable, establish a good routine. Then, you need to be clear with the words you use for various commands, training a V is a matter of them associating your words to their actions. No collar required, at least right away.
> 
> When you get a collar, a narrow nylon one is best, it gives you much more control than harnesses.


Introducing a puppy to a collar/harness during the short socialization window is critical in my opinion. Training off leash without the ability to see your command through is a gamble for sure.


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## gingerling

Najo said:


> Introducing a puppy to a collar/harness during the short socialization window is critical in my opinion. Training off leash without the ability to see your command through is a gamble for sure.




Dogs are socialized their whole life, it's an ongoing process. There are windows..I suppose...based on developmental ability. The first task is to "Socialize" them to their new homes and prioritize the many tasks they need to learn. Walking on lead is a low priority. When the time comes, a nylon collar around the neck is the best way to start. It's used to gain their attention and help them focus on the command..which is the result of pairing our words with their actions with reinforcement. 

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I'm recommending training off lead, I appreciate the opportunity to clarify this.


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## texasred

I like to start puppies as early as possible to a collar, and leash. I will even let littermates do some of the work for me.
Just them tugging on each other's leash, helps them learn to give to the pressure.

It's so much easier, than when they are a few months old.


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## Spy Car

I'd have an 8-week old pup wear a collar, but no way I'd be yanking on it as a "training method."

To do such would be counterproductive IMO. Better to get a pup excited to be with one and by ones' side. There are many ways to reward this behavior including play, praise, and treats.

Best to shape pups in their infancy in positive ways instead of tugging on their undeveloped necks.

Bill


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## Najo

Spy Car said:


> I'd have an 8-week old pup wear a collar, but no way I'd be yanking on it as a "training method."
> 
> To do such would be counterproductive IMO. Better to get a pup excited to be with one and by ones' side. There are many ways to reward this behavior including play, praise, and treats.
> 
> Best to shape pups in their infancy in positive ways instead of tugging on their undeveloped necks.
> 
> Bill


Precisely why a harness is better. Learning loose leash by becoming a tree when they pull, having the ability to keep a puppy in focus by maintaining a radius with the lead is the reason. Yanking on a collar at any age is not a good idea.


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## texasred

Don't recall ever saying, I yank on a puppy's collar. As I don't. 
Littermates playing, and tugging on each other is not something new, nor is it harmful. 
Atlas left me for his forever home, last weekend. For a 10 week old puppy, he did very well on a lead even outside. Also with recall, and a sit when he got to you. That was accomplished with string cheese, and praise, not yanking on him.


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## Spy Car

Najo said:


> Precisely why a harness is better. Learning loose leash by becoming a tree when they pull, having the ability to keep a puppy in focus by maintaining a radius with the lead is the reason. Yanking on a collar at any age is not a good idea.


Personally, I only use a harness when I *want* a dog to pull (as with a "roading harness" used with a mature dog for resistance exercise). A dog's natural instinct is to pull against the pressure of a harness.

It is very easy to teach a young pup to heal using positive methods without resort to pulling on harnesses or collars, and that's what I strongly prefer.

That a 10-week old dog can be trained on heel and recall using treats (as Deb states in a PP) makes the point that training harnesses and training collars are unnecessary (and I'd argue are counterproductive) at this age.

Bill


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## Najo

Spy Car said:


> Personally, I only use a harness when I *want* a dog to pull (as with a "roading harness" used with a mature dog for resistance exercise). A dog's natural instinct is to pull against the pressure of a harness.
> 
> It is very easy to teach a young pup to heal using positive methods without resort to pulling on harnesses or collars, and that's what I strongly prefer.
> 
> That a 10-week old dog can be trained on heel and recall using treats (as Deb states in a PP) makes the point that training harnesses and training collars are unnecessary (and I'd argue are counterproductive) at this age.
> 
> Bill


I don't pull on them, they choose to pull, and if you have a untrained dog that never does you are a magician. When they figure out that it is ineffective they stop, and you reward them using positive methods. I use harnesses because it is safer for them during that learning process, and because I certify my dogs in Search and Rescue, I climb mountains with them, I retrieve them from the water while kayaking. None of this can be done safely with a collar.


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## Spy Car

Najo said:


> I don't pull on them, they choose to pull, and if you have a untrained dog that never does you are a magician. When they figure out that it is ineffective they stop, and you reward them using positive methods. I use harnesses because it is safer for them during that learning process, and because I certify my dogs in Search and Rescue, I climb mountains with them, I retrieve them from the water while kayaking. None of this can be done safely with a collar.


As I said, I use a harness when I *want* my Vizsla to pull (for resistance exercise), as that is a dog's natural instinct and it is a great way to build muscle on a mature dog. So (for me) training a dog not pull with a harness would be counterproductive to my aims.

I can imagine situations where wearing a harness for other reasons would be helpful and, in those situations, I'd simply give a dog a heel command that had been well-learned via other means. 

Bill


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## 1stVizsla

Yes, agree with Gingerling. Walking on lead was a lower priority for my pup than learning to come when called, housebreaking etc. With the long time it took to housebreaking my 8 wk old V (over 2 mos to full) I felt that walking on lead was too challenging early on as I found my V too immature for that training and I didn't want to overwhelm her all the other important things she needed to learn. She was much slower in housebreaking than German Shepard's and Labs I've trained and the same went for walking on lead. 

When I finally decided it was time to take her on leash to explore the neighborhood (~4mos) I trained her obedience-school style with a choke chain collar and VERY gentle reinforcement on 7ft, or shorter, leash, and on short walks, increasing duration as their attention span can take it. 

Walking properly on lead is very challenging for the dog (and walker) in my experience. I'm fortunate to live near a large nature area where mine can go off lead so I've whistle trained her on the come command as well as hand signals for direction. We hike on trails and hills almost daily where she is off lead so she can get enough exercise.

One caution about nylon collars. My 1yr old V developed lumps (under skin) on her throat area where the nylon collar buckle was. My Vet was so concerned that she removed them surgically. Biopsy revealed severe folliculitis. My V has never had any other skin problems whatsoever and wore nylon until ~1yr when we switched to leather.

Now it's only a rolled-leather, loose collar for her. Our vet said she recommends leather for all short haired dogs, and no more problems! Good luck when you do get her walking on lead...it is a challenge as they are excitable and athletic dogs.


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## gingerling

1stVizsla said:


> Yes, agree with Gingerling. Walking on lead was a lower priority for my pup than learning to come when called, housebreaking etc. With the long time it took to housebreaking my 8 wk old V (over 2 mos to full) I felt that walking on lead was too challenging early on as I found my V too immature for that training and I didn't want to overwhelm her all the other important things she needed to learn. She was much slower in housebreaking than German Shepard's and Labs I've trained and the same went for walking on lead.
> 
> When I finally decided it was time to take her on leash to explore the neighborhood (~4mos) I trained her obedience-school style with a choke chain collar and VERY gentle reinforcement on 7ft, or shorter, leash, and on short walks, increasing duration as their attention span can take it.
> 
> Walking properly on lead is very challenging for the dog (and walker) in my experience. I'm fortunate to live near a large nature area where mine can go off lead so I've whistle trained her on the come command as well as hand signals for direction. We hike on trails and hills almost daily where she is off lead so she can get enough exercise.
> 
> One caution about nylon collars. My 1yr old V developed lumps (under skin) on her throat area where the nylon collar buckle was. My Vet was so concerned that she removed them surgically. Biopsy revealed severe folliculitis. My V has never had any other skin problems whatsoever and wore nylon until ~1yr when we switched to leather.
> 
> Now it's only a rolled-leather, loose collar for her. Our vet said she recommends leather for all short haired dogs, and no more problems! Good luck when you do get her walking on lead...it is a challenge as they are excitable and athletic dogs.



It goes without saying..or maybe we should... that there isn't any type of attachment to a dog that is or should be a substitute for good training, which requires a trusting bond, and lots of time teaching words and then associating those words to their specific actions/behaviors. A well trained dog doesn't require a lead or attachment for discipline purposes.

How often have we all seen people shouting some command at their dog knowing full well that command has not been adequately taught to the dog, followed by some crude yank on a lead?


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## hecallsmebama

Well, everyone has covered what has worked for them. I will tell you what didn't work for us. I started Amos on the front clip halti harness. The idea behind it is that when they jerk or pull, it turns them around to face you...which is not what they want. So, as a concept, it seemed ideal. Shouldn't encourage the pulling but doesn't jerk on the neck. Unfortunately, despite the harness design, the stop-when-they-pull "tree" tactics, the treats he was oblivious to because his surroundings were way more interesting, and the praise I gave when he allowed slack (which he always took as encouragement to pull more?), he was still a puller two years later. Not only was he pulling but he had developed this unhealthy looking awkward diagonal gate to compensate for the front clip harness that allowed him to still get out in front of me but only pull sort of. After the recommendation of my vet and several friends with dogs, I switched to a choke chain last month. (Yes, it makes him look mean. It makes you look mean, but the vet said the correction they receive from it is less than the correction they would receive from their mother as a pup or another dog while playing). 

He's not perfect by any means with the new collar, but he's better. He runs straighter which I think will be healthier in the long term for his hips and whatnot. As you can tell, Amos and I have not mastered the loose leash walking/running with ease. He requires a lot of reminding and it's still a work in progress. I'm not sure why it hasn't come together for us as quickly as it has for others, especially considering how regularly we work on it, but I thought there might be useful info here as far as what has not worked for us and just to know that it is not a cake walk for everyone.


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## Najo

I am confused on where in this tread anyone did condone "yanking", "jerking", or "pulling" on a lead? I will continue to introduce a collar/harness and lead on my pups starting at 8 weeks, as in my experience teaching a pup to be on your heel is much easier at that age, and can easily be taught in conjunction with other training. The collar/harness and leash at that point are simply so that relationship between going for a walk and having a collar/harness and leash on are associated early. My comment regarding having them on a lead during other training isn't for the purpose of "jerking" them if they don't listen, it is to ensure they remain within range to be able to help them be successful. If you are giving commands over and over while the pup is running around you are teaching behaviors you will pay for later. I personally will never use a slip, or pinch collar on my dogs as I believe in more positive styles of training.


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