# Is it possible to train a 2 year old Vizsla to hunt?



## jegan (Jan 10, 2013)

Hi everybody, I am new to this forum and I have a questions for everyone more experienced than I am. I have the opportunity to get a 2 year old Vizsla. It does basic commands (sit, stay, come, etc.). I am wondering if it is possible to effectively train a 2 year old Vizsla to hunt? I would be training it for upland and waterfowl. Please let me know what you think. Thanks


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Welcome.

No reason the 2-year-old Hungarian Pointer can't learn to hunt. Kind of depends on the dog and it's natural abilities on what level you'd get to. 

That is the age "derby dogs" turn into "field trial dogs" for the most part.

Good for it. Best time you'll have is working with your dog in the field.

Lots of bird exposure in a intensive time period will give you your best results. If you can't get the dog on birds every day, let a professional have him for a few months.

My .02

RBD


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I agree with RBD on it depending on the dogs natural abilities.
The part where we differ is this dog has missed intro to game birds at a young age. Derby dogs have been on plenty of birds.
I would say its possible, just not always probable.
If this dog does not have to hunt to be a part of your family, then go for it. Worst case scenario, you have a wonderful pet.


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## jegan (Jan 10, 2013)

Thank you very much for your replies. What do you mean by "derby dogs" and "derby dogs" turning into "field trial dogs"? The owner has said that the dog does point now on various occasions. Also, in general, how to Vizslas do with waterfowl? Thanks


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

This is a list of the AKC rules on derby dogs on up to the harder trials. You may have to look up some of the words if your new to pointing dogs. My only point was the young dogs had been exposed to birds and had a willingness to find and point them.

I do waterfowl hunt with one of my vizslas. I don't know where you live, but cold can play a factor in waterfowl hunting with them. They don't have a double coat like retrievers, so mine wears a vest to help keep him warm.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I am not tying to dissuade you from trying to hunt train him. I just would like you to go into it with open eyes.

If your thinking of waterfowl hunting he needs to have the desire to retrieve.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Jeg - just once again posted on Where to start - same answer - find a good trainer - join a pointer club - go to hunt & field tests watch & ask questions - break to birds & gun the right way - in the field you will meet so many people that want to help & want you to join them in the hunting community - not all but the vast majority - read & research - but till you go to the field & see pointers working you will never see what it's all about !


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

If you're _specifically_ looking for a hunting companion, I would start fresh with a baby pup. If you would *like* to hunt, but don't mind if the dog doesn't have the potential then go for it!  I've seen many "pet" Vizslas point and it's cute although that's much different than actual hunting.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

Jegan

My answer may appear to be a little different, than those you've recieved so far. In reality though, it is not.

No, you can not train a 2 year old Vizsla to hunt, but then again you can't train any dog to hunt, regardless of breed or age. What we do is too train the dog to hunt with, and for us. It seems like a semantics exercise, but it's not.
Each dog is born with a different hunting instinct and drive. it is up to us to maxamize that instinct and control it. If the dog you are getting has the drive and the genetics, than it should come around very quickly. It will be harder for you, because I've been there, but there is a world of difference between starting an 8 week old puppy, and a 2 year old adult.
In the beginning, do not look at the dog as a 2 year old, or an adult, treat it as if it that 8 week old puppy. It will make mistakes, same as any dog in training, but's because it now has adult strength, speed and agility, you're going to have be on top of your game.
This is why I kind of 2nd R E McCraith's advice to enlist the aid of a trainer, or someone pretty experienced with Vizslas.

Yes, Vizslas can hunt ducks. Again though genetics will play a large part, especially the retrieval instincts because I'm not sure that force training a Vizsla will yield positive results.
They will never match a Chessie, or a Lab. Don't expect it. They can successfully be hunted from shore blinds, used to jump shoot , and can work from a boat in shallow water, but they are not deep water retrievers. If you're after Canvasbacks, this is not the dog. Crippled divers can present a problem also.
If you are going to hunt a V in the northern states on ducks, you will have to provide it protectin against the cold, and a Neoprene vest would probably be a very wise decision.
The Vizsla is very quick to pick up the blind retrieve, just don't expect them to not think for themself. If they see a more efficient way, they will take it. ( Even it is cost them a Prize 1 UT dog title.  )


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

TexasRed said:


> I agree with RBD on it depending on the dogs natural abilities.
> The part where we differ is this dog has missed intro to game birds at a young age. Derby dogs have been on plenty of birds.
> I would say its possible, just not always probable.
> If this dog does not have to hunt to be a part of your family, then go for it. Worst case scenario, you have a wonderful pet.


Agreed TR. The dog will still hunt more than likely. How well it hunts is the unknown question. If it has strong natural instincts, then it might take to it without a hesitation. However, it may also have some deficiencies which make it a little challenging when hunting. But, at the end of the day, at least they will still be out hunting with you. be it 10 birds or 2 birds, I'm sure you will still get birds.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Gunnr said:


> The Vizsla is very quick to pick up the blind retrieve, just don't expect them to not think for themself. If they see a more efficient way, they will take it. ( Even it is cost them a Prize 1 UT dog title.  )


This is soooo true, they are masters at finding shortcuts. This is well documented and part of Vizsla history. That is what makes a Vizsla a "Hungarian dog". This quirk was never corrected throughout history. Every Hungarian Vizsla documentary, training manual mentions this quirk and how to work with it rather than force correct it. 
Otherwise, it would be a German dog (unbelievable work ethics)

A Lifetime of experience shining though, every of your answers, Gunnr 8)
You should charge for that kind of reply. 

Oops, i'm getting an idea... Maybe there should a section on this forum for professional advice... This section could be accessible on a pay/use pay/specific advice etc... 

Julius.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

Julius

When I got my first Vizsla, Boone, the "standard" was that all dogs were force trained to retrieve, whether they needed it, or not.
I started down that path and believe me when I say it went bad very, very, quickly. if I had continued, I'm certain I would have destroyed Boone as a hunting dog. He had to take 2-3 months off from any retrieval work, just to get his mind back,and we started very slowly after that. I have never force trained a dog since. They either do it, or they don't. It's just not that important to me.

Boone was working the crippled duck, off the blind retrieve, part of a NAVDHA test and entered the water bold as could be. As soon as he realized where the duck was in relation to him, he swam back to shore, ran down the bank about 50 yards, and then got back into the water to intercept the duck. You can't fault them for being smart, even if you want to strangle them at the moment. 

It's kinda funny watching them work a crippled Merganser the first few times. For some reasons Mallards and Blacks will swim first and dive second. Mergansers and Buffleheads will dive first and swim second.
The look on their face is priceless. It's like; "Hey, that's not fair".

As a "cheat". If someone needs their V to retrieve blind, a pocketful full of rocks can really speed up the learning curve. 
They'll see your arm motion and react to the sound. Keep tossing rocks and lead them to the cripple. In no time at all you won't need the pocketful of rocks. Not exactly a Field and Stream moment, but it works.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

A book would be nice, Gunnr. 
Small gems like this need to be compiled and published. Otherwise, can be lost.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Gunnr, I can 2nd the rock throws. Mine have now progressed from there to just following an arm movement and now just a hand signal in the direction. Astro is 100% on it, Zsa Zsa is 70%. Sometimes she needs an arm movement to clarify.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

datacan said:


> A book would be nice, Gunnr.
> Small gems like this need to be compiled and published. Otherwise, can be lost.



I don't know about that.Some of the gems might hurt a bit. 
I had to break Boone from running deer with a broken shark pole,and 35 yards of stainless steel leader. You won't find that technique in many training programs. Which is good because some 23+ years later it seems like I can still feel it in my shoulder.
60lbs. of Vizsla at a dead run, hitting the end of that line. What was I thinking. It really hurt. :'(


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

*Re: Re: Is it possible to train a 2 year old Vizsla to hunt?*



Gunnr said:


> datacan said:
> 
> 
> > A book would be nice, Gunnr.
> ...


Jesus.....Boone must have some motivation.......... Mine pull up ad Doon as they feel a little pressure on the check chord..........  Boone must have some serious Deer desire.........


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Gunnr said:


> I don't know about that.Some of the gems might hurt a bit.
> I had to break Boone from running deer with a broken shark pole,and 35 yards of stainless steel leader. You won't find that technique in many training programs. Which is good because some 23+ years later it seems like I can still feel it in my shoulder.
> 60lbs. of Vizsla at a dead run, hitting the end of that line. What was I thinking. It really hurt. :'(


That must have been an early e-collar prototype. Same effect, e-collars just use batteries 

As long as their mind is into it, they can take a licking and then some.. 

Biggest problem, I found is yelling. Can mess up his day. Takes it very personally, whereas the e-collar, he finds it impersonal.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

Ozkar

He wouldn't misbehave on the check cord, because he knew what that would do.
I actually hooked the check cord, and the snap from the sharkline to his collar, and we walked for a couple hundred yards. then I unclipped his check cord hoping he wouldn't be aware he was still on the shark line. It worked, because about 5 minutes later a small doe got up and ran, and he was off like a shot.
For the rest of life if a deer got up in front of him he would chase it exactly the length of that steel leader, stop and bark.


Datacan

"Biggest problem, I found is yelling. Can mess up his day. Takes it very personally, whereas the e-collar, he finds it impersonal. "

This sentence probably explains the foundation of all my training philosophies. Correction has to be impersonal, and non emotional. It's what they understand.
I went through a horse training clinic and that was that trainer's philosophy also. He likened the nagging, yelling, and continuous correction of a horse to abuse. Horses,and dogs, don't get personal about it with each other. A bite, a kick, and they move on. The correction lasts only seconds.
Transgression, Correction, Redirection. Get past that moment, and onto the next.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I don't yell at my dogs but got to see first hand how it can effect them. We went on a duck hunt with a person that's dog has the same name as mine. It was a young dog that had been trained. They had took him on a couple of hunts but the ducks just weren't there. We were asked if he could come along so the dog would have a better chance at retrieving on a actual hunt. The good part was the dog got to retrieve his first goose and duck. The bad was the owner was a little over zealous with commands.
It upset Cash to hear his name barked out repeatedly. He would put his tail down and give me the look like I'm already doing what I'm supposed to, and who does this other guy think he is anyway. I think it would have confused any dog but could have been better with a more laid back owner. I feel like I did my good deed and won't be duck hunting him with any other dogs named Cash.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

*Re: Re: Is it possible to train a 2 year old Vizsla to hunt?*



TexasRed said:


> I don't yell at my dogs but got to see first hand how it can effect them. We went on a duck hunt with a person that's dog has the same name as mine. It was a young dog that had been trained. They had took him on a couple of hunts but the ducks just weren't there. We were asked if he could come along so the dog would have a better chance at retrieving on a actual hunt. The good part was the dog got to retrieve his first goose and duck. The bad was the owner was a little over zealous with commands.
> It upset Cash to hear his name barked out repeatedly. He would put his tail down and give me the look like I'm already doing what I'm supposed to, and who does this other guy think he is anyway. I think it would have confused any dog but could have been better with a more laid back owner. I feel like I did my good deed and won't be duck hunting him with any other dogs named Cash.


TR, it's not isolated to dogs with the same name either. My mate is a stress head and when he starts getting stressed, my dogs go running for cover.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Yeah, arguing loud will shut the dog down... 

I once yelled "HEEL" when he was just goofing around me... the result was devastating. Tail in between the legs, ears down, face down, eyes barely making contact with mine. We had to go home. Never yelled at him again.

This is the same stubborn guy who can take quite a bit of stimulation from the ecollar, when he wants to. I give up the stimulation and hoof it after him, leash walk afterwards..

The difference being, the ecollar is not personal but raising my voice at him is personal and emotional


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## Kiah_TheAussieVizsla (Jan 13, 2013)

I completely agree with RBD - in that it is now time to start with lots of bird exposure. If you have the principles of basic obedience covered, it is time for birds for a 2y.o. Pigeons are a great starting point, however don't cut corners with the bird intro as this is easy to do thinking your dog is older (and somewhat wiser) this is not the case. Best advice is cover the same ground with the foundation training as if he was just a pup - with slow intros and progress when he is ready to avoid fright. Lots of useful tips on the net on how to intro birds properly. 

As all V's drive is different, you will never really know if you have a potential F1 or a tractor on your hands to gauge. One things for sure, if it is a tractor it is still fun!


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

*Re: Re: Is it possible to train a 2 year old Vizsla to hunt?*



Kiah_TheAussieVizsla said:


> I completely agree with RBD - in that it is now time to start with lots of bird exposure. If you have the principles of basic obedience covered, it is time for birds for a 2y.o. Pigeons are a great starting point, however don't cut corners with the bird intro as this is easy to do thinking your dog is older (and somewhat wiser) this is not the case. Best advice is cover the same ground with the foundation training as if he was just a pup - with slow intros and progress when he is ready to avoid fright. Lots of useful tips on the net on how to intro birds properly.
> 
> As all V's drive is different, you will never really know if you have a potential F1 or a tractor on your hands to gauge. One things for sure, if it is a tractor it is still fun!


I laughed at that last comment. Little Zsa Zsa is an F1, and big lumbering Astro is definitely a tractor........


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