# Walks are not good anymore...



## Superunknown (Feb 19, 2012)

Hi we have a 15 month old Vizsla called Ted.

We aren't enjoying our walks with him anymore.

Firstly, he doesn't WANT to walk. We can't get him out of the front door unless we drag him. He's happy to go out of the back door cause he knows that's where he urinates. If he needs a wee...he will stand by the back door...look at us...then we take him to the garden so he can do his business. That's fine.
But when we are about to take him out for a walk...for example...put his leash on...he will not MOVE from the spot. He will either lie on the floor motionless or sit on that spot and *not* move. What dog doesn't like walks!? He doesn't have a fear of anything...it's as if he's lazy and doesn't want to go for walks. If we didn't know better, we would not take him outside for walks. When he knows it's time for a walk, he simply refuses to budge. Even with the front door open, even with treats. Sometimes he runs back to his crate when he knows it's time. We've tried different leashes and we are certain it's not that. Ever since we got him, he doesn't like the initial aspect of walking. But once we've got him outside...he's ok and enjoys walking! It's just such a hassle getting him outside that's the problem.


Secondly, once he's outside(we dragged him out or lured him out) , he's agressive to little dogs like terriers...growls and barks at them. He's never been like this until he got bit by a terrier last month and caused a deep injury to his mouth. It's since recovered fine. Since then he's after terriers when he sees them and they are also after him. We've tried to slowly let him play with terriers but it always results in growling and barking on both sides. They seem particularly agressive to him. We're now starting to get comments from other dog owners saying that our Ted shouldn't be like this. It's upsetting my parents. Ted is a fantastic dog with no violent tendencies. He's very loving with us and has no problems with larger breeds.


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## Canadian Expy (Feb 27, 2013)

As for the Terriers, I would think finding a new Terrier or small dog that he can play with. Hopefully one that will not bark or bite. Reintroducing him to a small friendly dog should help him like them again. 

The walking problem could be boredom, have you been taking the same route everytime? I would try a new routine or area, new sights and sounds might get him interested again. 
Good Luck


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## Superunknown (Feb 19, 2012)

Hi thanks for your reply. There's lots of small dogs and terriers in the area...he barks at all of them, and they sometimes do the same to him.


We alternate our walks, for example the morning walk could be down to the town moor, the afternoon walk could be in a different suburb up the road, or a mile away etc.


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## dmak (Jul 25, 2012)

I have a few recommendations. First, please don't take any offence to anything I may say, here to help you. It sounds as though you need to structure your walks more. The pup needs both mental and physical stimulation when on lead walking. The on lead walk needs to be on your terms,it's not his free time; that's what off leash time is for. It shouldn't be a time that he tugs, sniffs, pulls, barks or growls. You need to exert your role as his pack leader and teach/show him what you expect of him. Right now it sounds as though he is leading/guiding you and it needs to be the opposite. I suggest either a prong collar, check cord, choke chain, or gentle lead; something that will apply quick, corrective pressure. Shorten your leash and keep your pups head by your knee the whole duration of your walk. The moment he even thinks about doing something other than walking with his head up, you need to correct that promptly. This will add a lot of mental stimulation and it will also shoe him that your the boss. At the same time, you cannot show or feel any thoughts or feelings of doubt, frustration, or anger; your pup can read/sense these feelings better than you can imagine and he will pick up on these thoughts. Its these thoughts that cause him to react the way he does. With patience, love, confidence and repetition, you need to prove to your pup that you are the boss and that he is to do as you wish. Coaxing/luring him will not work and can be detrimental to his/your development. 99% of the time the dog is not the problem, the human is. While we all love our pups to death, but we tend to humanize them; feel sorry for him and coddle him. They are dogs and need to be taught/treated like a dog. I gained a lot of perspective from Caesar Millan's book "Caesar's Rules"


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## Superunknown (Feb 19, 2012)

Hi not at all! I assumed Ted was well trained as he does obey commands and he never pulls. He walks at heel. The only issues are that he doesn't want to walk to begin with and he/small dogs bark at each other.


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## dmak (Jul 25, 2012)

Getting him out the door will take time and strong leadership. The barking at small dogs will take swift corrective action. The second he even thinks about barking, tugging, lunging, correct the action and maintain the heel. You may need to have him sit/down/stay at times, but most importantly, Ted needs to know you call the shots and that excited/aggressive behavior towards small dogs is not acceptable. A quick tug of a choke chain and/or a light kick (more of a tap;don't kick your dog)to his mid section will go a long way in correcting the undesired reaction.


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## Shake (Dec 27, 2011)

Hi Super: Sorry, I can't chime in on the 'fix' for this problem. But I'm just curious: most dogs are up at the window or at the door barking and scratching to follow us, their pack leaders, when we leave.

So if you let Ted see you leave, does he remain docile, or retreat to his crate? Does he have absolutely no interest in wanting to join you?


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

I will add this much, it's not Ted's fault. Please don't blame him. 

Ted, I like the name.


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## Superunknown (Feb 19, 2012)

Hi thank you very much.

He has alot of interest in joining us when we enter the room or he barks at the window when he sees us coming in the front door. He loves to see us when we enter the front room.

Every time we leave the house, we crate him for no more than 2 hours and he doesn't mind that.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

As I'm having lunch I saw this post. Got thinking on how I would handle this problem and this is what I would do.

I would put the dog's food in an airtight bag and carry it with me along with a bowl. After 1/2 hour of walking I would stop in a nice quiet place, bring out his food and feed him a big meal.

Then head home. At home I would give him a small meal. That would be all the food for the day.

Do that for a month. I think the dog might change it's idea of a walk. Dogs DNA make them hunters for food. Why should they leave if food is at their den?

Food for thought.

RBD


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## SuperV (Oct 18, 2011)

Hi,

Before I offer my two cents, one thing I learned early on is that are many ways to skin the cat so to speak. None of our suggestions may work, but perhaps you can take bits and pieces from all of our suggestions and come up with one that works for you and your dog..…..anyway here is my take on the walking issue..

As you mentioned your dog knows your routine exactly and knows the walk is about to happen. People are a creature of habit and dogs know it and realize it, so change it up. Break the situation down in very small steps and desensitize your dog to whatever it is that que's his dislike for your walk. For instance, if the dog always shuts down when you put the leash on by the front door. During your training sessions, start putting the leash on at the front door, but don't go outside. Put the leash on, then take it off and follow up with playing or something similar that the dog has fun with. Now (after several repititions) the dog doesn't always think getting a leash put on by the front door always means a walk. So once that is taken care of, do a similar thing with putting leash on, opening door, and then shutting it without going for a walk. Maybe the next step will be walking out the door and then coming right back in…Celebrate the small wins and always end on a positive note with the dog..small steps with big rewards…

You may find the dog is triggered by you putting on a particular coat, shoes, etc prior to going outside, or a behavior you only do when going for a walk. Pay attention to what you do and watch your dog to see what it is that shuts him down. Once you find what it is, repeat that behavior at random times so the dog doesn't always associate it with the walk..or change that behavior…

There was a period where my dog, randomly decided to run from me when I had a collar to put on her...completely odd behavior. What I did was make sure, the situation never presented itself again, partly because there is no chance in the world that I could catch her if she didn't want to be caught.... I would either put the collar on immediately upon her coming out of the crate or well before going outside and when she didn't know I had it in my pocket and I was playing with her or petting her.... I refused to let her learn that she could outsmart me...

Make any sense?

Nate


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

I think RBD has a great suggestion on fixing it. But, I also think there must be a reason and it could be that partially you're exhibiting frustration or intrepidation when heading out for a walk. So perhaps slow things down, allow Ted to come out of the house on his own terms and in his own time. I think combine these two and you may alter the behaviour. Dogs are the best exponents of reading human body language.... way better than us...........


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

In order to walk together you and your pup must be bonded. You must have the same frame of mind. If you start the walk with reservations about what the pup might do then the pup will do it. If you have frustration at the behavior the pup will not want to move towards a sense of frustration. I know this all sounds very monk zen type crap but it is true. Dogs can be very sensitive and if they feel hesitation by their owns they will react. If they feel frustration they will avoid. So clarity of mind will have your dog on board with you.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Prongs, problem solved. 
No conversation needed, action only. 
Dog goes everywhere I decide, LOL. 

Poetry in motion...


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

datacan said:


> Prongs, problem solved.
> No conversation needed, action only.
> Dog goes everywhere I decide, LOL.
> 
> Poetry in motion...


Cruel horrible and a fast food type fix. 

Earn the pups respect not action from fear.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> Cruel horrible and a fast food type fix.
> 
> Earn the pups respect not action from fear


Tad judgmental. Tens of thousands of police dogs have been trained this way. 

Used correctly, just like anything else, it is another training tool. 

The key word is correctly.

RBD


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

redbirddog said:


> > Cruel horrible and a fast food type fix.
> >
> > Earn the pups respect not action from fear
> 
> ...


Not judgmental just stating my opinion. If I was judgmental I would have made it personal. All I have to do is look at one of the collars and it makes me wonder how in the **** they were ever made legal!

Slip leads in my opinion are a better option every time.


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## SuperV (Oct 18, 2011)

For discussion not argument.... 

I never understood why chokers, slip leads, wonder lead, prong collars can all get such differing opinions when in my mind they are all the same...here are my thoughts..for discussion...

The mechanism through which the slip lead, choker, prong collars, etc work is by applying a "pressure" to the dog which it doesn't like and they learn to turn off the pressure by doing what is asked.... In a sense, the dog says "ok Mercy, I give in, I'll do what you want" or "I would rather do what you ask of me, than do what I had in mind and experience this pressure" 

What's the difference of how the pressure of applied...IF USED CORRECTLY. The object in training is to always to use the least amount of pressure needed.

I get that the prong collars are marginally different by applying several point loads on the dogs neck, versus a uniform constricting pressure around the dogs neck, but if the handlers adjusts his force in his correction appropriately to me its the same difference... 

I welcome other opinions and insights...

Nate


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

born36 said:


> datacan said:
> 
> 
> > Prongs, problem solved.
> ...


Agree on the fast food fix. I will have never and will never use a choker, slip lead, prong or shock collar. I have no objection to a tone collar though, as this is just the same as a whistle or a voice command. 

The fix is time, repetition and consistency. I don't know why people have to get all hung up on these electronic or discomfort causing methods. I've NEVER had a dog of ANY sort need anything more than time, patience, repetition and consistency to train them. The problem these days seems to be that people are either unwilling to put in the effort, or feel they don't have the time. To me, it's about progressing the dog at the individual dogs pace. If it's not ready to hunt effectively at 18 months of age as an example, then I just wait, keep training until it is ready. After all, the hunting is for the dog, not just for me!

RBD, I always respect and mostly agree with your thoughts as you know. So it really surprises me that you think you need an Ecollar, as I always viewed you as having a slightly more holistic attitude to your dogs??????


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## SuperV (Oct 18, 2011)

Just my opinion, but applying pressure or a feeling of discomfort to dog for training is no different than how another dog, mother, or litter mate corrects the dog.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> RBD, I always respect and mostly agree with your thoughts as you know. So it really surprises me that you think you need an e-collar, as I always viewed you as having a slightly more holistic attitude to your dogs???


I think that is the first time anyone has related "holistic" and RBD (Rod) together. 8)

Work in Heavy Civil Engineering. Have one of the biggest_ carbon footprints _ around. Build things that others can use such as good roads, bridges, schools. Do we do it responsibly? Yes. Safely? Yes. Holistically? Not a chance. Earth and stone does not change shape gently. You use the amount of force needed, and hopefully no more to get the job done. Am I "nice" to the employees that work for me? Nope. But in 25 years not one has lost any body parts or died. And yes that happens in what we do.

And by the way, I also like "fast food" from time to time.

What the heck does that have to do with "Walks are not good anymore"? We use tools. Big expensive tools. Modern tools. High energy productive tools to get the job done.

Why wouldn't I use an electronic collar any more than I would use a "walkie talkie" to communicate to the crane operator where to put the load safely? 

Chloe, my 6 year old Vizsla has had a electronic collar on exactly twice. Two times at rattlesnake avoidance class. The first year she had it on and they hit the button with a setting of 1. She jumped back when she saw the snake and each step of the 10 minute session. I think the trainer hit the button 4 times. The next year at the refresher course, she had it on. The trainer never had to use it. She jumped back when she saw the snake. She remembered the lesson from a year ago!

Bailey, my 5 year old Vizlsa, needed a 3 out of 10 to get his attention in the classes. He is "thicker skinned." One morning, when he was 15 months old, we were waiting to introduce him to birds in the field with a professional trainer. No e-collar training had happened yet. An old farmer had chickens in the back of his small farm house close to where we were going to train. Bailey left us, ran away from me a 1/4 mile to chase this poor farmers chickens. I had NO control. I felt like crap as I apologized in broken Spanish and gave the old man $40 for his troubles. Ordered an e-collar the same day. Great investment. I have maybe "hit the button"100 times total in the 3 years and maybe 4,000 miles of walking and hunting we have done. But it is there as a communication device. That is all. He knows what he needs to do. That is what our training is about. He just needs to be refocused from time to time when his prey drive clouds his thought process of "oh yeah, can't do that." Out West (here), a rancher can shoot a dog that chases his livestock. You, as the dog owner, have no recourse. The rancher may lend you a shovel if they like you.

Walk you dog under control. How you get and keep that control is up to you. None of the methods are "designed" to harm your dog. Can they. Sure. But I can do a heck of a lot of damage with one of our Cat D8 dozers if I didn't know what I was doing.

Ozkar, I hunt with Bailey and shoot and kill game birds, clean them, cook them and eat them, so I guess it that way I am "holistic."

Happy trails. Bailey is in Colorado and should run tomorrow or Monday. 41 other high-powered, high-energy, highly trained Hungarian Pointers in the Vizsla National Gun Dog Championships. I can guarantee you all of them have been trained using e-collars *correctly*. 

Off to walk Chloe with a friend and her female Vizsla up in the hills. Two mellow Vizslas. Kinda boring. :

Sun's coming up.

RBD


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

http://www.cesarsway.com/newsandeve...storm&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=southpark

may work ;D 

*video needs flash, may not work on IOS devices :-[


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