# Buying Your First Vizsla (BUYER BEWARE)



## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

We have very few breeders on the forum, and only get a small glimpse into their world. We try to help new members, by giving information on what to look for in a breeder. As buyers, we play a important role in the health, and welfare of the breed. If we are unwilling to do due diligence before the purchase, we are a big part of the problem. Only knowledge, and mentors can help us walk though the mine field, and bypass the traps setup to ensnare a first time puppy/dog buyer. 

I've thought this topic was long overdue, and didn't post it because of the lack of breeder input on the forum. The post (below) I read today, changed my mind. These stories need to be told.
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I received an inquiry a couple weeks ago from someone looking for a puppy (yes I am a breeder) or an older dog needing rehome. It was pretty briefly written, no real info (location, timeframe, etc). I answered and suggested contacting the Vizsla rescue in her area or some more info to refer her to a breeder.
She later replied and stated she just picked up a 2-year old bitch from Breeder X (located in my state) who was being sold because she produced TWO litters with puppies with “esophagus issues” (yes TWO litters before age TWO). She was of no use to Breeder X any longer, so she was being sold (yes, SOLD).
Mad yet? There’s more.
I received a follow-up email last night that in addition to having to pay to have the bitch spayed (what? you didn’t think the BREEDER would have done that already?), the bitch suffers from BILATERAL ENTROPION. This is a GENETIC issue in our breed and when the Breeder was told of the issue (of which repair of both eyes will cost $1200-1400)…THEY HAD NO IDEA WHAT ENTROPION WAS!!
Did I mention the Breeder charged her $700 for this dog to take it off their hands?

Mad yet??

What BREEDER who CARES about OUR breed does NOT know about the health issues that affect it, or what pedigrees they are breeding can potentially produce; especially if this is a recurring problem in your line?

Am I out to trash this breeder? No. There is no mention of names, kennels, “customers”….I have no dog in the fight here.

I’m MAD because these practices are what is destroying MY breed and YOUR breed when people support this business. I’m MAD because this lady got taken to the cleaners for a sick dog! I’m MAD because supporting these breeding practices overburdens our rescue groups.
I know breeding is not a perfect science, and quite frankly…crap happens. But GOOD breeders, who CARE about this breed, do NOT continually breed the SAME sires to the same dams over and over and over and over again. They are walking in circles and never pushing forward, to IMPROVE. THIS is a VOLUME breeder.
Sure YOUR dog might be healthy, but out of 150 puppies a year, you roll the dice enough, eventually you’ll get it right.

I tried to help this lady find a QUALITY dog, not a mass produced….thing. This is why when a breeder tells you there is a WAIT for their puppies, it’s because like fine bourbon (this Kentucky girl LOVES her bourbon) it has to be PLANNED and RESEARCHED and time has to be allotted to allow for the PROPER care of a litter. Breeders often like to see a litter AGE (again, like bourbon) so IF there is an issue, those dogs are eliminated from the breeding pool. But she wanted HERE and NOW, so she impulse bought, because there are ALWAYS PUPPIES and dogs from breeders like this, and she will most likely endure a LIFETIME of issues with this poor dog with NO help from this Breeder.
PLEASE STOP SUPPORTING THESE BREEDING PRACTICES, for the sake of the breed. Responsible breeders are NOT being snobby or rude or arrogant when they ask questions of you, don’t have puppies when YOU want them, or quite frankly, say “no”, they are CARING about this breed, its future, and integrity.


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## dextersmom (Oct 29, 2013)

Let me first say, I totally agree. 



TexasRed said:


> PLEASE STOP SUPPORTING THESE BREEDING PRACTICES, for the sake of the breed. Responsible breeders are NOT being snobby or rude or arrogant when they ask questions of you, don’t have puppies when YOU want them, or quite frankly, say “no”, they are CARING about this breed, its future, and integrity.


But, on the other hand, I'm often really frustrated by the whole selecting-a-breeder-process. There are a lot of breeders that *do* come off that way (not the breeder that posted this originally - but a lot of others). Most don't ask questions - they just disregard you from the start. Or, some breeders have SUCH strict requirements for their puppy owners (must not work full time, must have a fenced yard, must be willing to neuter after 18 mos, must co-own, must not have kids, must show, etc.). I understand they want the best for their pups - and that's great. But let's be realistic here. I'd argue that most people that want a V (after doing their research, and for the right reasons) can't fulfill all those requirements. It's like making a list of everything you want in a future spouse. You might find a great match - but they won't necessarily hit every check mark on your list. So what does the average person do? Keep calling around until they find a breeder that will give them a V. A lot of times, that could mean that a person starts off contacting a reputable breeder, but ends up going with a questionable one ultimately. I'm sure in some cases, those are homes that shouldn't have a V. But by no means, do I think it's the majority of them (maybe more than for other breeds though, ha!).

I think very highly of the breeders that care this much about their pups. But I think the attitudes of breeders often need to change, too. Yes, they might be looking out for their litter. But without educating puppy buyers, having realistic expectations of people who want a healthy family pet, those people will just go somewhere else. Everyone wants a healthy, well bred dog that is good for the breed. But not everyone has kids over 8. Or wants to spend weekends titling their dog. Or can avoid traveling so they don't have to board their intact dog.

I really think until the whole process changes (buyers being more educated, breeders being more open minded) it will continue. I look at the breeders whose dogs I admire now and think about how I would have done things differently when getting Dexter - but then I remember that even now I couldn't sign their contract. I feel like it's a Catch-22 in a lot of ways. 

I'm not trying to start an argument - just to vent what it's like from the other side of things. It's something I'm constantly conflicted about!


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I think some of it is first impressions by breeders, and buyers.
No, they are not going to allow hundreds of people in their home, just to get to know us, and we them. If we want to really get to know the breed, and breeders, we are going to have to put ourselves out there. Go to vizsla gatherings, meet the dogs, their owners, and the breeders. You will be learning just as much about them, as they are learning about you.
You will make friendships, that will lead to mentoring. That will ultimately lead to a well bred puppy,and a lifetime of support from the breeder.
I agree it takes longer to get a pup from one of these breeders, and there is a good reason.
They are doing more than just putting two registered dogs of the same breed together, and then selling puppies to anyone that has the cash.
I also agree it can seem overwhelming at first, to someone wanting their first Vizsla. I just don't feel that is a good enough reason to put money in the hands of unscrupulous people. Its like buying a Sony TV, but when you get it home, its a Soney TV in the box. While both are TVs, you sure did not get what you paid for. The difference is these pups, and the dogs they are out of are living, feeling, breathing animals. We can't just stuff them back in the box, when they don't work out.

I'm not out for a argument, just thought some of these stories should be brought light.


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## riley455 (Aug 27, 2011)

dextersmom said:


> Let me first say, I totally agree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I understand and know where you are coming from, I've been there myself. I've become friends with some of these breeders since I started showing my dog (now an akc champion - a brag!) middle of last year and I think I've gotten to know a little bit of their perspective.

A good breeder pretty much knows the type of litter from a planned breeding so the breeder will screen potential buyers based on this to get a successful match and rewarding experience of vizsla ownership for buyers (be it for pet, show or hunting). The vizsla is a very challenging breed to own hence the additional questions to weed out buyers that are not ready for this breed.

I think a potential vizsla owner should go to conformation shows or field events and meet some of the breeders. The vizsla community is a very warm and welcoming group of people.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

> Or, some breeders have SUCH strict requirements for their puppy owners (must not work full time, must have a fenced yard, must be willing to neuter after 18 mos, must co-own, must not have kids, must show, etc.). I understand they want the best for their pups - and that's great. But let's be realistic here. I'd argue that most people that want a V (after doing their research, and for the right reasons) can't fulfill all those requirements. It's like making a list of everything you want in a future spouse. You might find a great match - but they won't necessarily hit every check mark on your list.


When breeders are breeding to compete in venues. They need owners willing to also compete with their pups in same venue. They need the feedback. Without it, how are they to know what kind of pups they are actually producing. A good many will keep a pup for their own, but thats only a small picture. Owners willing to compete gives them a bigger picture.
Not all pups in every litter will be show quality. It maybe something as small as a white marking in the wrong place, to keep them out of the ring. That pup will still need a quality approved home.

I've seen people able to handle young kids, and high powered dogs.
I've also seen people that couldn't handle both. They thought they could but became overwhelmed. While I agree kids shouldn't automatically keep you from owning a vizsla, a breeder would need to know more about you.

Good many people work, and own these dogs. But we both know they have to have plans ( even backup plans on some days) in place to make it work. You can't potty train a puppy, and leave it home alone for 8-10 hours a day. Not even getting into the other problems that arise.

When we contact theses breeders wanting just a pet/dog. They have to try figure out what just a dog means to us. Is just a dog something we thought we would do a lot with, but will make excuses instead of following through. Or is just a pet/dog something that enriches our lives, and we are willing to make adjustments to meet our dogs needs. 

Contracts are only as good, as the people signing their names to them.
We've had members on the forum buy pups with genetic problems. As soon as it came to light, the breeder was no longer interested in any contact, or helping cover any medical expense. The only options would be to take them to court, and most owners don't take it that far. They love their dog, and chalk it up to a lesson learned. The next unsuspecting buyer comes along, sees a pretty website, and a contract. The hook is set for the next victim. 

What we don't see, is the prospective owners that promised a breeder the world, in order to get one of their pups. They also sign the contract, but fail to follow through, and are no longer interested in any contact with the breeder. 

Breeders, and Rescues share many stories with each other, that we never see. 
Without us having that knowledge we decide they are snobby. Most aren't, and just have to weed through 100s of applications in order to try, and place puppies in good homes. Yes, we all want a reply, and I can only guess how time consuming that is for a quality breeder.

I think you have to be a special person, to take on the daunting task of breeding, and placing quality pups in correct homes.


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