# Born on a battlefield :)



## solefald (May 16, 2013)

So we took Dre to the local Fish & Game Association last night. 

Saturday is our regular trap night and I decided that its time for this 9 week old bugger to hear some real guns. We devised this whole plan how we will park half a mile away, and slowly walk towards the trap fields to get him used to the gun shots gradually and from the distance. Did not work out as planned. Girlfriend needed to use the bathroom, so we drove right up to the fields. Right as we pull up, pot shoot starts on the next field over . These guys shoot super heavy and super fast loads that sound like cannons and they literally shoot from the parking lot, so they were right next to our car. Dre did not even blink. Did not even turn their way. So we took him out of the car, and he spent the entire evening at the 27 yard line, 11 yards away from the squads. Running around, sniffing the "wilderness" meeting people and being the cutest little guy ever. Everyone went completely crazy over him and he handled it like a champ. At one point he just passed out and ended up snoozing off for a good couple of hours, while the guns went off to the left and right. I am so impressed by this little guy, i don't have words to fully express my awe. If i did not know any better, I would think that he was born in the middle of a battlefield.

Now a rant. One of the regulars was there with his obnoxious daughter. Argh. The girl is around 20 (my guess) and is a local Pit rescue volunteer. She always wears t-shirts that have something to do with pitbulls, shelters, rescues and volunteering, but i've never seen her with a dog. Poor Dre could not make two steps without this "rescue volunteer" running up to him, picking him up shaking him and yelling how cute he was and trying to get him to bite her hands. Are you effing kidding me? I just spent a whole week teaching my little gentle and sensitive bugger that it is NOT ok to bite hands! She did it once, i asked he not to do it. She did it again, I asked her not to do it. Then it was my squads turn, so i went up and left Dre with my son and girlfriend just to turn around 3 minutes later and see this girl manhandling the poor dog again. And again. And again and him squirming and trying to get out of her arms. ARGH! When the round is over, I walk up to her and ask her not to EVER touch Dre without *my* explicit permission. About an hour later, Dre is sleeping in his crate in the back of my SUV and all 3 of us - my girlfriend, my son and I are shooting a round together. I turn around, and this girl has Dre in her arms!!!! She went up to my car, opened the crate and pulled my sleeping dog out of it, so she "could show him to her boyfriend". I had to put the whole squad on cease fire and go get get my poor dog from this girl. Her dad realized that she just crossed a BIG red line and chewed her out for this. I was so freaking mad after that, I dropped 3 birds in a row! Not only she messed with my dog, SHE MESSED WITH MY SCORES! Hehe. I LOVE Pitbulls and it hurts me to see these guys have a bad stigma because of the bad owners, and now I am coming to realization that its not only bad owners. It's also these "rescue volunteers" who have great intentions, but in reality should be kept away from any and all dogs, because they do more harm than good. End rant.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

My understanding is, that's one way to make 'em gunshy :-[

the better way...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO_J_wxliyM (in this video, Hickox is the spitting image of my grandfather, I swear)

I was in a field with my dog and some jackass brought his lab. Started training and firing blanks without even asking or looking at us. Sam was not close but apprehensive enough. In his mind the other dog was a play target... not nice, had to leave :'(


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## Kevin (Dec 29, 2012)

Why people take there pup to the traps and brag about how well they did is beyond me!!!! 

You were very lucky, n u don't really know if your pup will take away positives or negatives from this.

Would u take your child and throw them in the deep end of the pool and tell them to swim? Don't think u would.

Took me 3 months to get my v to the stage where he can be fired over.

He's a 9 week old pup!!! Get to know him, don't shut him down..

 n please don't try n debate this, riding on the back of the luck you just had.


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## Rufus Tiberius (Dec 18, 2012)

One sure way your dog gun shy is to do this: 

THE #1 Cause of Gun shy dogs!






=






Once he is gun shy you may never be able to break him of it.


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## solefald (May 16, 2013)

Kevin said:


> Why people take there pup to the traps and brag about how well they did is beyond me!!!!
> 
> You were very lucky, n u don't really know if your pup will take away positives or negatives from this.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I am glad you accused me of doing something stupid and then told me not to debate it. Got to love the internet forum logic.

Your dog is not a model of every other Vizsla out there. If I did not believe that my pup could handle loud noises, I wouldn't have taken him there. We had a shelf with pots and pans fall off the wall the other day and he was not bothered a single bit. This is why i took him to the range last night. If he was timid and scared, there is no way i would do that. He is the most confident pup I have ever seen. As soon as he hears my neighbor rev up his Harley he goes straight to the window to investigate. I am yet to see a single thing that scares him. 

Talk to people who breed hunting and field dogs. Most of them will tell you that they play recordings of gun shots at escalating volumes since the litter's birth. I spoke to 4 different Vizsla breeders who all volunteered that information without me even having to ask.


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## Kevin (Dec 29, 2012)

You were not sure that your pup would handle loud noises, that is why u devised the plan of parking 1/2 a mile away. So please don't give me the 'we know our pup' line after one week.

All v's are unique and yes my v is not a model of all v's. however, I followed the correct training program recommended for all gun dog breeds when breaking to the gun.

I don't want to debate cos I've seen this kind of stupidness too many times and the owners always try to defend there actions.

Just take a step back n enjoy your pup, they grow up quick n anything done wrong now could stay with him all his life.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Intellectual Property removed by Author


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

I got grief for some of the things that I did in the first weeks we had our puppy- she is fine and checked out perfectly healthy at the vet- but what about not being completely vaccinated? What about damaging his hearing?
and this sounds to me far more damaging than anything I did. Also how can you call your puppy a "bugger"? Sounds to me like you don't have a lot of patience. I know Vs can be very bad at shark attacks- I have the marks to prove it.


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## solefald (May 16, 2013)

MCD said:


> I got grief for some of the things that I did in the first weeks we had our puppy- she is fine and checked out perfectly healthy at the vet- but what about not being completely vaccinated? What about damaging his hearing?
> and this sounds to me far more damaging than anything I did. Also how can you call your puppy a "bugger"? Sounds to me like you don't have a lot of patience. I know Vs can be very bad at shark attacks- I have the marks to prove it.


I have nothing but patience with this little guy and i love him to pieces. What exactly made you latch on to a single word in 2 paragraphs of text? Do you see me using "bugger" in any insulting or impatient manner? I get it, i am a bad parent. I scared my dog for life, he will cower and run away at a sight of a gun or a sound of a racked slide and I damaged his hearing. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but at the end of the day I decide how to raise my child or my dog. My son turned out pretty **** well and I am sure that my dog will too. 

This forum is ridiculous.

/thread


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## zigzag (Oct 4, 2011)

I couldn't even read through this post. Please before you begin any training with Guns & Birds find a good book on Gun Dog Training. Or the Perfect Start Perfect Finish CD set.


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

solefald,

I'm not trying to say anything new as I'm a complete novice to gundogs, but I will try to do some damage control. I know I would be really upset if I posted something expecting a bunch of pats on the back and instead got slaps to the face, but please don't let the delivery of that criticism or unrelated comments keep you from following sound advice in the future. Dre may very well be unaffected by the experience, but as I understand that would make him the exception. Even if that's the case (and you won't really know until second exposure to gunfire), there are better ways to introduce gunfire. Ken's advice is spot on.


WillowyndRanch said:


> When we introduce dogs to the gun, we fire ONE blank while the bird is in the air, the dog is in chase and the wind taking the noise away. We then see what the dog does the NEXT time, because that is often when gun sensitivity is demonstrated. Gradually the exercise is expanded until over many sessions the dog associates the gunfire with the fall of a bird.


Check out the book Training With Mo, by Martha Greenlee or her blog http://steadywithstyle.com/ for clear, good training tips. Look into NAVDHA. I've found it to be a very welcoming group. 

You absolutely have the right to raise your dog how you choose, but PLEASE take a few steps back and slow down with this part of your training. You won't regret it.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

A Pro trainer took the time out of his day to help you gain the knowledge to properly introduce gun fire to a pup.
You can either use the wisdom, or carry on in the same fashion.
I can tell you from first hand experience, proper intro can either make or break a pup. My dog Cash hunts with me 7 months out of the year. He spent 6 months with a trainer fixing what my husband messed up in 1 day.

Cash was older than your pup ( few months old) and been introduced to gunfire correctly. I was not quite at the point where I was shooting birds over him, but darn close. 

My husband took him to the lease for the weekend in the off season. They weren't doing any hunting, and Cash was just going to hang out and run the fields.
The next week when I went out to train Cash he coward, and ran under the truck at the sight of the gun. I was heart broke and couldn't figure out where I went wrong. I laid the gun down and just ran him on birds that day.

What I did wrong was let someone that had never owned a gun dog take mine to the lease. My husband fessed up to taking some guns to the lease for a little target practice. He would never intentionally do anything to hurt Cash. He just didn't know the ramifications it could cause.
I was mad and told him "This dog is going to hunt, and I don't care what it cost us." Knowing full well we may spend thousands of dollars and never be able to have him in the field, Cash went to a trainer. No promises were made, just that he would try and get him passed it.
We were lucky and it worked. Many dogs never overcome it, in fact they become noise shy of other things too.
I was protective of Cash his first year hunting. He never got to go hunting with my husband, unless I was there. His first hunts were one shooter only, and slowly added more hunters.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Sol - just like V's everyone is different - 4 me & 58yrs in the field this has never changed - intro 2 BIRDS FIRST - then 2 GUN - do this right & when the pup sees a long gun it meens 1 thing - we are going hunting - back up - search the forum & find what will put the pup in the right direction - I only want 1 thing - a pup that is BIRDIE and the gun puts the bird in his mouth then my hand - at the end of the day it takes hard work for both of you - do it RIGHT !!!!!!!!!!


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

The pups young'

and Young Man I feel your passions'

They come within

the roar of Thunder 

and Many on here hate greatness and wins

You pass that up and move to your groove and earned work bench.


Pro ball You get the Beef

age 14 on and Yes now I am roaring some

I suggest life is free will and Free thoughts

Your Personal pup I would introduce Him to real live birds , wing work hand commands whistle lead rope work first

Never fear haters some gifts were given to you to protect the pup and to provide you more room to flex.



I suggest getting remote not shooting next to open highways when Jenny Craig was needing you and cars and you see lots of homes and building your not Hunting

that's all fake BS.

Gun clubs would be year 1 on to me

Get a louder pellet gun

Graduate to a cap gun or starter pistol

then to the 410 shotgun

this does take some time

but not all the time above

each mate lets you know

when there ready

a few pigeons and take a look see

The Great news You Great Pup is not Gun shy 

this is a big win for You Look at the positive sides here 

not the fear and hate

All these posts all these words

One gives and a few more daily gifts for free and provides real Reflexions daily not sell outs copy and paste links

The Norm Fear

The true gifted share.

My girls just 5 months she is ready and very close to live Hunting 

I will back my words with green backs any Huckleberry 

most will say far too young

there very wrong

this is Pro ball train and gain

the right food choices the correct supplements

the correct tools given and in Her growing life work bench growing ahead of her

God humbles real warriors not man 

There are a few who I think will help your gains

shutting down please don't it only hurts you and Your Mate it will not create wins and Meat and watching your great mate hunt work or show

Stay progressive in thoughts positive in your gains and remember this a PC Not Real life Fun

I am real raw Pro ball Power

and they hate So What

Humble the bubble gum with life wins loss and gains

and We all Make mistakes 

Your train and gain mix You and Your Mate meet or exceed

I never meant Deb

But she cares for the breed and at least hunts some and her family as well

and I repeat and flame it all Hunting is not dull half dead release sites

that could be a starting point for a pup or Jenny call me Craig"

To be a upland work Rockstar you must have a proven track record For You and Your dogs Not For others

Chin up mate Baby Willow month 5 Months Bang Bang and she gets it all

Giving sharing risking is a real gift

hating is total weakness passive aggressive behaviors pathetic.


You need real help

pm me.

Big Mouths Don't make a big man

Real sharing can

step back take nothing personal its fake and just words

The Real Pro's will help you

and its not this site many good folks on here

Its raw remote Real

where Pro's flex it all

match the days and months even weeks take some notes

and create a proven track record that fits your personal dog

Each dog has a far apart in the learning grade..

Your Pup is not fried my thoughts just slow down a tad then Roar it down

God Bless

I felt your passions

the mate feels it all

and No Riddles facts and 14 brain lesions back my wars  ;D

Fight on

You can

Released 2 birds they held on both over 5 minutes

I gave them the words take them now

big Rudy was pointing and flexing standing straight on the hinds 

Real fun

make it a great day for at least one ;D


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## zigzag (Oct 4, 2011)

I am glad your dog is doing well with gun fire. I could have easily made the same mistake you did when I first got my dog and was super anxiouse to get him gun broke. Thankfully the good pepole of this forum set me straight. In my opinion your dog being 9 weeks old may have been the reason you did or didint make him gun shy. From what I have read this early stage of life is when they fear almost nothing. Things begin to imprint later in the 16 week period and that is also the start of the fear stage. So please do not hesitate to ask more questions as you and your pup progress. There are many great dog folk on this forum that only want to see you and your dog succeed.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Sole, Dr. DRE may forgive you faster than the forum... in the meantime, have some icecream


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## Darcy1311 (May 27, 2012)

Well Datacan  that's enough to make me choke on my chain..LOL ;D


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## dmak (Jul 25, 2012)

I haven't chimed in much the last few months, but have an opinion on this matter. I think the forum came down a bit hard and aggressive on the OP. The responses to his first ever post may cause him to leave the forum for good. Constructive remarks go a lot further than negative attacks. We should try to educate and enlighten, not bash and berate.

Now to the OP, I too have trained my share of gundogs over the years and each one has taken to the gun differently. Using Ken's method, I was able to train a gun shy dog into being able to work under a gun, so I would suggest his techniques for training your pup to be able to work under fire. Its one thing to have a dog that can handle distractions well, its a totally different thing to have a dog know what its supposed to do when those distractions are around. The road is long my friend, so have fun on the ride. Hopefully your pup will continue to progress into the gun dog he should be.

My pup now, Kauzy, is amazing under a gun and in the field with zero issues, but is affraid to death of fireworks and shooting ranges. As long as he has a job to do the gunfire doesn't affect him at all. If he's just hanging out though he gets timid around the loud bangs. Be mindful as you introduce your pup, it can only take one shot and one bad experience to flush that gunlove down the drain. Consisent association with his duties while under fire was what brought him back from gunshy to gunlove


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Sole I think the forum came down on what you did ( it worked out great ) not on you personaly - if new forum members & old read your post and learn from it - ie: how to intro to gun - you have done a great service for the breed - we all have opinions & we all learn from them !!!!!!! keep POSTING !!!!


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