# 10 Week Old Puppy - SCREAMS When We Leave The Room



## Anarane01 (Mar 11, 2012)

Hi all. This is my first post here, though I've been reading up on V's for months prior to getting mine.

Poppy is 10 weeks old tomorrow. We picked her up 9 days ago, and have been trying to crate train and bond with her since we picked her up.
So far, she's been a dream:


[li]Pretty much potty trained already, whines and cries when she needs to go (she has a specific cry for needing to go potty).[/li]
[li]She sleeps through the night without crying or needing to potty.[/li]
[li]She hasn't destroyed a thing (partly because we haven't given her the chance to).[/li]
[li]She's bonding great with myself and my husband, and she hasn't attacked our cats yet (we've kept them apart physically, though we are allowing them to see each other and sniff each other's toys and beds etc).[/li]
[li]She even loves her crates: the crate in the car, she happily lies down and sleeps or plays with her toy; her bedroom crate she will easily go into (with a tiny bit of encouragement and a warm hot water bottle) and will sleep all the way through the night, although either myself or my husband will lie next to the crate for 15 minutes to help her nod off to sleep - she likes to groom our hand before sleeptime; and her living room crate has her kong, another hot water bottle, a chew toy and a soft cuddle toy, along with some water and a small amount of food. She likes her living room crate, although she has become a bit suspicious of it today due to the training we've done with her.[/li]
Our big problem is this. EVERY time we leave the room, whether she is crated, or behind the baby gate, she literally screams herself hoarse. When that doesn't make us come running, she makes choking noises. When that doesn't make us come running, she reverts between the two. It is the worst sound I have ever heard. In an attempt to fix this horrendous screaming/choking thing she's developed, we decided to do some training - we played with her for 5 minutes, we let her calm down for 5 minutes, then we crated her. We gave her a handful of treats, and whilst she was eating them, we left the room and went next door to the kitchen. We stood in the kitchen, silently, waiting the 5 minutes out. She screamed her lungs out from the second we left the room to the second we re-entered. We read that we shouldn't acknowledge her whe she's being bad, so when we re-entered, we sat on the floor with our backs to her (approx 4 foot away from her crate), and ignored her until she calmed down (which took about 60 seconds). When she calmed down, we turned, gave her treats and attention, and let her out of the cage.

We did this 3 times, by which time she was so exhausted from screaming that she fell asleep. I placed her in the crate to sleep, but when she woke and realised she was crated, she went mental, biting and shaking the bars of the crate, screaming, whining, choking noises, the works. Now she's acting too scared to go near the living room cage - I put treats in there to encourage her to go in, but she just reaches forward, grabs the treat, and retreats to the other side of the room. She's fine in herself - playful, energetic etc, but just won't go near the crate without enticement or being forced.

What now? What did I do wrong? And more importantly, how do I fix it? From tomorrow onwards, myself and my husband will be at work from 9am-1pm, during which time she'll be crated. My husband will come home to take care of her at 1pm-2pm - food, potty, play etc - and then she'll be crated again from 2pm-5.45pm when I get home. What if she screams and 'chokes' the whole time? That will be **** for her and my neighbours... What can I do to minimise the situation for her? I don't want her to hate the crate or see it as a place she has to go when we leave, but she's just as distressed being in there if we're in the room, another part of the house or if we leave her!

Sorry this post is so long, I just really don't want to get this wrong!


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Intellectual Property removed by Author


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## redrover (Mar 17, 2011)

You've taken the right steps...just have to get there!

You'll have to begin desensitizing her to being left alone. You start out right by leaving her alone in a room for a few minutes at a time, but (and I'm not sure, since you weren't explicit here), you're going back in the room when she's raising a fuss. Even though you're not acknowledging her, you are still reinforcing the idea that screams make you appear. Invest in some ear plugs, give your neighbors a bottle (or six) of wine in gratitude/apology, and start waiting her out.

Do your normal routine. Crate Poppy. Maybe leave an item of worn clothing in the crate with her--I gave Jasper one of my t-shirts. Leave the room. She will have a puppy temper tantrum. Wait. Wait wait wait wait wait. The second she stops, whether to take a breath or whatever, go back in. Whatever you do, don't enter the room while she's making unacceptable noises. I know--they sound terrible. They seriously sound like they're being tortured. But don't give in! It will only make things worse in the long run.

It took Jasper and I about a week to get around to 4 hours alone. I started out by just closing the crate door and leaving him in it while I putzed around the room or house, not looking at him while he had tantrums. Then I would leave the room, but then pop back in, almost before he had time to have a tantrum. Then I built it up to 2 minutes, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 15, 20, 30, 45, 1hr, etc. 

It can be horrible and tedious and heart-wrenching. But it's something she has to learn--that just because you leave, doesn't mean you'll never be back. On the other hand, she also has to learn that screaming and fussing doesn't bring you back any faster.

You won't have enough time to fix this before tomorrow, unfortunately. Your neighbors might get upset. I would go over, explain the situation, and maybe offer them that wine (or some other acceptable house gift). The last thing you want is your neighbors to resent your dog. Explain that it's only temporary and you're working on it, and that you're requesting their patience for about a week.

This was, to me, the worst thing I had to train Jasper to do. Everything else was (relatively) easy, but this was noisy and heart-breaking at the same time.

ETA: Right now Poppy is associating the crate with you guys leaving her. Spend some time with her in the crate while you guys are still in the room. She might not like that either, but she'll clue in to the fact that it doesn't mean you're gone forever. Again, don't look at her, and definitely don't let her out until she quiets down. You might have to physically place her in the crate a few times, now that she's wary of it. All the training books in the world will tell you never to do this, but sometimes it's necessary, and it will in no way "ruin" your dog on the crate. Just make sure to do it calmly, since they can sense when you're upset. Jasper when through a period where he hated his crate too, because he thought it meant I was leaving. He got over it quickly--they're pretty resilient, really. 

Oh! And when you're letting her out of the crate, just continue to ignore her. She will probably jump all over you, try to get really close, lick, etc. Ignore it. Once she's calmed down, go ahead and give her a few pets. You don't want to train her to believe that your return is something to get that excited over, otherwise she will always be a little whiny when she's wanting out of the crate.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

Puppies can only hold their pee/poo for 3 hours at MOST when they are that young. I don't think it's healthy to leave a baby puppy alone for 7.75 hours a day. They need regular interaction & stimulation. Do you have any family/friends who can dog-sit for you during the day? My parents do a "doggie daycare" for us at their house. 

As far as training her to settle when you leave, you should take that very slowly. I would start by walking out of the room and walking right back in with some treats. Leave the room again, walk a few steps, then come back in and treat. The goal is to work up to longer & longer periods until you can leave for 2-3hrs without her throwing a fit. It's better to go this route (IMO) than letting herself scream until she's hoarse. Positive experiences are the best!


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## Anarane01 (Mar 11, 2012)

Thanks all for your swift messages.



WillowyndRanch said:


> She throws a fit, and gets his reward, which is attention from you.


I clearly did that wrong - I stuck to the time constraint, rather than reacting to her. I'll go for the reacting thing from now on.



WillowyndRanch said:


> After a week back at work with the new routine, set up a recorder and see just how long she carries on after you go. It probably won't be much.


We actually bought a webcam before we got her, to keep an eye on her during the day - we both work quite close to home, so if there are any incidents, one of us can sneak out of work to take care of it.



redrover said:


> You start out right by leaving her alone in a room for a few minutes at a time, but (and I'm not sure, since you weren't explicit here), you're going back in the room when she's raising a fuss. Even though you're not acknowledging her, you are still reinforcing the idea that screams make you appear.


Ditto my reply above - I stuck to the time constraint, not the puppy. I'll fix that immediately.



redrover said:


> Do your normal routine. Crate Poppy. Maybe leave an item of worn clothing in the crate with her--I gave Jasper one of my t-shirts. Leave the room. She will have a puppy temper tantrum. Wait. Wait wait wait wait wait. The second she stops, whether to take a breath or whatever, go back in. Whatever you do, don't enter the room while she's making unacceptable noises. I know--they sound terrible. They seriously sound like they're being tortured. But don't give in! It will only make things worse in the long run.


Poppy has one of my tops and one of my husband's tops (we were told that one from the start). I will wait out her screaming until she takes a breath, then I will go to her immediately - we WILL win this one!!



redrover said:


> You won't have enough time to fix this before tomorrow, unfortunately. Your neighbors might get upset. I would go over, explain the situation, and maybe offer them that wine (or some other acceptable house gift). The last thing you want is your neighbors to resent your dog. Explain that it's only temporary and you're working on it, and that you're requesting their patience for about a week.


Luckily, both sets of neighbours work the same hours as we do, so they won't hear the worst of it. My biggest worry is Poppy - I don't want her to be stressed and upset. I want to provide the home that she deserves, and I know I can, if she would just calm down a little!



redrover said:


> Spend some time with her in the crate while you guys are still in the room.


We've spent the whole evening doing that tonight. She seems to be ok with it, she has a pig's ear in there which she appears to be seriously protecting! 



redrover said:


> She might not like that either, but she'll clue in to the fact that it doesn't mean you're gone forever. Again, don't look at her, and definitely don't let her out until she quiets down.


She's not too bad with it, but she's so engrossed in the pig's ear that I don't think she's realised where she is!



redrover said:


> You might have to physically place her in the crate a few times, now that she's wary of it.


We did that a couple of times earlier - she hated it as much as I did, but it's something that is gonna have to happen a lot until she is willing to go in of her own accord...



redrover said:


> Oh! And when you're letting her out of the crate, just continue to ignore her. She will probably jump all over you, try to get really close, lick, etc. Ignore it. Once she's calmed down, go ahead and give her a few pets. You don't want to train her to believe that your return is something to get that excited over, otherwise she will always be a little whiny when she's wanting out of the crate.


Ah. That one I messed up. As soon as she comes out of the crate, I've praised her and allowed her to lick me. I'll stop that too. Thanks 



threefsh said:


> Puppies can only hold their pee/poo for 3 hours at MOST when they are that young.


Not a problem at the moment - she sleeps right through the night from 11pm til 6.30am with no accidents or issues so far. My worry isn't accidents, my worry is her stress levels!



threefsh said:


> I don't think it's healthy to leave a baby puppy alone for 7.75 hours a day. They need regular interaction & stimulation. Do you have any family/friends who can dog-sit for you during the day? My parents do a "doggie daycare" for us at their house.


Sadly not - my family lives 100 miles away from me, and my husband's family all work as much as we do. Besides, my husband will be returning for an hour in the middle of the day to sort her needs out. She'll be alone, with no interaction for 4 hours in the morning, and just under 4 hours in the afternoon. All the other dog owners I know have done the same thing with their puppies, with no real issues. Again, my concern is her sanity!!

Thank you all for your replies. I'm glad we're doing SOMETHING right at least!!


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## redrover (Mar 17, 2011)

Anarane01 said:


> She'll be alone, with no interaction for 4 hours in the morning, and just under 4 hours in the afternoon. All the other dog owners I know have done the same thing with their puppies, with no real issues.


This is what I did with Jasper. I think the rule is you can add an hour to their age in months--so a three month old puppy can hold it for 4 hours, etc. I found with Jasper he could hold it two hours more than his age in months. There might be a couple of accidents the first few days (they can't hold it as long during the day, as compared to how long they hold it overnight while sleeping), but Jasper got there pretty quickly.

Good luck! Sounds like you guys will get there just fine.


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## polkan (Dec 29, 2011)

I would just add a couple of thoughts to what has been suggested:

Every puppy has a unique personality type (C, M, S, P) and each type has a slightly different predisposition in coping with distress, such as separation. That's the reason food (peanut butter Kong) works best for some, while owner's scent works better for others. A rhythmic, repetitive sound (ticking clock, a heartbeat pillow) has a soothing effect on some others. 

My first suggestion would be for you to try these out, separately, one at a time, while you're home, and observe how each impacts calming down. It will also help you understand your puppy better and learn its buttons.

Additionally, once the crate time is over, I would recommend that you spend a few minutes doing some basic obedience that you have had a chance to teach your puppy - perhaps sit, down, etc. If you do this before you give your puppy unconditional attention, you will break up a self-reinforcing behavior chain: confinement makes your presence more valuable and is followed by exaggerated attention upon your return, which in turn makes the next separation more distressful. So, once you release the puppy from the crate, do a quick run of basic obedience and provide attention as a reward for that obedience. 

Basic obedience will always make a puppy more confident, because it promotes cooperation with you as the most rewarding coping style.

Finally, I know that this isn't something you'd want to hear, but you really need to spend more time with the puppy now, especially considering the temporary setback. It's bad and unethical, but I would call in sick in and lie in case I cannot get more time off in a proper way. 

You have a short window in which to teach your puppy how to cope with distress and it will have an impact on what kind of dog she will grow up to be. If you're successful now, leaving the dog on its own for 4 hours at a time won't be a problem.

If you do take more time off, my suggestion would be to have planned crating - similar to potty training where you take the puppy out every hour: you can start crating your dog for as little as 5 minutes every couple of hours, followed by a sit/down and some play, if you need to reintroduce the crate. Redrover's methold of getting to 4 hours in a week's time is simply excellent and I wish it were turned into a sticky on the forum. 

Finally - the webcam is a very good idea. If you see that the puppy develops a habit of digging, soiling inside the crate, barking (as opposed to screaming) or trying to destroy the crate, it's an indication that it's coping ability is getting worse and has become a major problem. 

Best of luck to you!


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

I have nothing to add except to say that this thread is awesome! Some really intelligent well worded replies with effective methods have been submitted. I have to say the responses rate for thread of the year. You all must have put your thinking caps on firmly prior to typing!! I love this place!


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## Anarane01 (Mar 11, 2012)

Quick update for you all:

Poppy's improving slowly - we've been waiting until she's super drowsy or dropping off, then placing her in the crate, sometimes with the door closed, but mostly leaving it open. Sometimes she stays (too tired, can't be bothered to move I guess), and sometimes she leaves as soon as she realises where she is. When this happens, I put her back until she stays put for a while. I think she's starting to see that we don't always leave when she's in the crate.

She is still freaking out when she realises we've left though. We have the webcam set up to see her crate. My husband went home today to sort her out at lunchtime, and when he left at 2.16pm, she freaked out, chewing and shaking the bars, barking and knocking her water bowl off the side of the crate (we have a road refresher bowl so it's off the floor in an attempt to prevent her knocking it over...)
Yet yesterday when we left, she barked for a minute, shook the bars for a minute, then turned her back to the camera, whingeing into her kong toy. We did everything the same, so I'm not sure why she was so much worse today...

Is it simply a case of time? Or is there more we can do?

Thanks everyone for your help so far!


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

Keep at it and she will give in. One thing to state again from the posts above. Do the same thing each time. Make it as normal as possible. So when you leave it is a command of "In your bed" or "In your crate" or what ever you want to say and then nothing else once she is in you leave. No more eye contact no more talking, just leave and shut the door. Doing the same thing each time gives her structure and allows her to realise what is going on.


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## Kasey71209 (Oct 6, 2009)

Sounds all to familiar lol our puppy used to go as far as eating the walls and rugs so we had no choice but to leave him in the middle of the room on tile.. I didnt really do anything different though.. He had no choice but to be in his crate during the day..He did eventually get over it i think putting him on a strict schedule kept him sane and not paying attention to his tantrums worked too.. Once they figure out the tantrums dont work they settle down.. But oh god those screams are horrible!! Now he just yells at me once i let him out if he's upset with me lol shouldn't be cute but it's sooo funny to listen to him go on and on


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Awww...Kasey.........they are just telling us how horrible a day we must have had to not be able to be with them. They know how much we depend on spending time with them to make us happy and they just like to remind us of how much we missed them.............


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