# Mixed Breed Hunting



## DougAndKate (Sep 16, 2011)

Elroy is our 1 1/2 year old V/Pit mix. I was just curious as to options as far as training him for hunting. He has an insane prey drive, he points all game from birds to rabbits to deer. His main problem is that he loves to chase too. And I'm not too sure what would happen if he ever got a hold of something.

We've been working with a great trainer for the past couple of months (advanced obedience/non-hunting) and he introduced him to the e-collar a few weeks ago. In the next few lessons we start true off leash training, so we'll see how he responds to that.

Kind of just thinking out loud here. I used to hunt when I was younger and have recently thought of taking it up again. And I think the best bet for Elroy would be small game of some sort, rabbits, squirrels etc. If anyone has any insight or opinions let me know...

Doug


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

I'm guessing that at 18 months old the biggest would be the ability to hold Elroy steady on a point and to let him go on command, if the red mist comes over him he could get into all sorts of trouble, I think what i mean to say is, don't think about the game but think more about Elroys safety and concentrate on his recall when he gives chase. I'm thinking out loud here as Rubes is deffo relapsing as soon as she zones in on fur that can't fly,,,I'm concentrating on this aspect now as the other day she cleared our front garden hedge to go for a cat, she totally ignored my "stay" command and very nearly (within 2 secs) would've got hit by a car...scarey stuff Doug


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

****** Personal opinion coming.....please don't be offended, it is just that as most know, I detest E-collars *************

First thing I would say, is ditch the E-collar. There are better, all be it sometimes slower ways to manage holding point. I could never imagine using such a device on any of my dogs. I am also of the belief that if a trainer is teaching this method, perhaps you should research a trainer who has the skills to manage this without an e-collar. I hate to say it, but to me, it is just another result of a society that wants instant results and is not prepared to put in the effort and time to get them. Once again, sorry if it offends, but I just think they suck balls big time!!


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

There is more to a trainer than whether he uses an ecollar or not. 
We had a wonderful trainer in from Scottland that trains Flat Coat Retrievers. Softer dogs much like the vizslas. He is highly respected in his field. He watched one of his dogs run at a trainers here, that uses ecollars correctly. When the man left the US he had a ecollar. He has been breeding and training these dogs for over 25 years.


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## DougAndKate (Sep 16, 2011)

No offense taken Oz. This is our 3rd trainer, and the best one we've had yet. I only wish we used him first when we rescued Elroy, who's just a little "hard headed" to put it nicely. Our issue now is recall, similar to what harrigab is dealing with. We have amazing parks everywhere, however, we are just outside the city, and less than a mile from most of the trails we frequent are some major highways. There's no room for anything less than 100% recall. Plus, I think he would burn much more energy off leash, and with our baby due in a few short months, it will be critical that he does since our schedule and time will be re-prioritized somewhat.

I was just wondering in general in my original post if anyone had any experience with mixed breeds and hunting, of any kind really. V+Terrier genetics=Insane Prey Drive, and was just curious as to whether that could be focused in some way. Thanks for the replies guys...


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Ozkar said:


> ****** Personal opinion coming.....please don't be offended, it is just that as most know, I detest E-collars *************
> 
> First thing I would say, is ditch the E-collar. There are better, all be it sometimes slower ways to manage holding point.<snip> I am also of the belief that if a trainer is teaching this method, perhaps you should research a trainer who has the skills to manage this without an e-collar. I hate to say it, but to me, it is just another result of a society that wants instant results and is not prepared to put in the effort and time to get them...


Oz - Obviously my viewpoint will differ. I've been at this for going on 35 years now. Way back when I got started, E-collars were new, somewhat unreliable and my first one had three settings. I called them fry, smoke and ****. Good for trash breaking and that's about it. They did indeed ruin many dogs. However, The technology development in the past 35 years has been significant.

I use e-collars every day in training. I cannot give a correction to _reinforce learned behavior _ as lightly with a checkcord as I can with the variable adjustment e-collars of today. I cannot give a correction to _reinforce learned behavior _ at anything over 10 yards with a checkcord - I can out to a mile with an e-collar. It is, outside the check cord *the* single best tool in a good trainers kit. I think it's still very important to TEACH the dog what you want with your hands and a cord alone or pinch collar depending on the dog. Properly transitioned dogs to e-collars in my opinion carry much more style and dependability than dogs of old. Dogs trained with these tools today have a much much higher success rate of training versus washout as we can give such well timed and small corrections, tones of approval and caution that were never available to us.

I have clients who have the same reservations. It is generally overcome in this manner. I turn on the collar. I set it at a typical setting I use (low 2) and put it on my arm and push the button. Surprise! I 'm not electrocuted or wincing or writhing on the floor in pain! I even keep carrying on a conversation while receiving the stimulation! Then I put it on their arm and push the button. I've had electronic massage at the chiropractor that use more current. Most people with strong feelings about e-collars only have heard the horror stories, have no personal experience with them and have never felt the stimulation. It is a fear of the unknown.

If the dogs were all worked at heel in the manner as you stalk hunt, then a checkcord alone would be a much simpler scenario to train and enforce steadiness. With a properly ranging dog outside gun range on upland birds however - to checkcord only train for enforcement requires a very fast set of feet indeed. That's why before e-collars many dogs if x-rayed would find lead bird shot somewhere in their body.

If a trainer today said they don't train at all with an e-collar, I would have the opposite opinion. I would question whether this trainer works to learn new and improved methodologies vs. the whip, stick and shot methods of not so very long ago. 

>>>>>>>>>>>

As to the original question - yes. "Mixed" breed dogs can most certainly be trained to hunt. The unspoken reality is that all hunting dogs are mixed breed - just mixed varying lengths of time in the past. I've got a new little yellow lab that was living on her own at camp when I arrived a month ago, maybe cattle dog? mix that is a driven little bird dog. I attached a couple pics - her working, one of a produced sharptail grouse and her usual post when I go anywhere.

The girl at the vet named her Daisy, she also has a new nickname - "Sidekick".

A final note - she's being trained to not chase cars with the e-collar.

Ken


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