# Does it ever get easier? Please someone tell me it does...



## Cakegirl (Mar 28, 2014)

Dakota is 7 months old, and we are still having a hard time.

He isn't house trained. He is crate trained, which we've done since day 1. But if he's out in the house, he will just randomly pee without warning. Sometimes poop. He can't have a pad in his crate, because then he'll pee on it. There's nothing physically wrong with him, we've had him checked by the vet. We've worked HARD on house training, read just about everything we could on it. Talked to his trainer about it. Nothing is getting through. (Also weird, on walks he doesn't go in the grass, always on concrete.) So basically unless he is outside, or being played with, or very very closely supervised, he has to be crated. Which stinks.

He's insanely destructive. He gets tons of exercise - about 5-6 miles several times of week, lots of interaction with our kids, etc. But he still destroys anything he can. He also barks, all the time.

Last night, I had taken him for a 6 mile run, where he got to be off leash and just GO as long as he could (so probably more like 7 miles for him). We came home, I fed him, and then had him attached to the front door while I put one of my kids to bed (attached to the door because I knew if he was free he'd pee on the floor, and I didn't want him in the crate yet because I wanted him to have some downtime with me after the kids were asleep.) I was gone maybe 20 minutes, but closer to 15. When I came back, he had taken a sealed box down from our entry way table, shredded it, shredded everything in it (destroyed the items), shredded an American Flag I keep by the door, and pooped twice on the floor.

I don't know what to do anymore. He's had training, private lessons, my husband works with him on his training 30-60 minutes per day, we thoroughly exercise him daily, it's just SO HARD. He's my third dog to raise, so it's not like I'm new at this, I've just never had a dog this hard before. 

Is there a light at the end of the tunnel? Or will he always be like this?


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

That's hard to say, as I have always found Vs easy to potty train. The only thing I can think of is not giving him the opportunity to use the restroom in the house.
Have him in the crate, or on a leash attached to you while inside. I would try this with him for the next two months and see if the habit of only going outside kicks in.
Be sure you praise him every time he goes to the restroom in the correct place.

As far as chewing, some of them are big chewers until 2 years old.


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## jld640 (Sep 29, 2010)

I've never dealt with a dog that difficult, so hopefully some others on the forum with more experience will give some more specifics, but here are a couple of ideas to get you (or the discussion) started.

Seven months was about the time that Savannah started reverting back to square one on some of her training. Fortunately not potty training, but many of her commands she all of a sudden just didn't remember. The teenage protesting started later. First we went through regression. With that in mind, you might try going back to square one - again! - with potty training. Take her out every hour she is awake to the same spot in the yard. Use the potty word of choice and praise like crazy when she goes in the correct spot. Keep her on leash or crated at all times in the house and if she has an accident, follow Ozkar's formula of cleaning it up with a paper towel then taking the paper towel and Dakota to the potty spot and wait until she sniffs the towel. Praise like crazy at that point. Some folks use treats, too.

The destruction is sort of similar. On leash or crated at all times in the house. You might get one of those leashes that clips to your waist so she is always with you. Anytime she picks up something that is not allowed, calmly substitute one of her toys.

I didn't give Savannah unsupervised time in the house for a long, long time. As mswhipple says, "they chew 'til they're two." Keeping her on a leash with you will take care of near term issues, but she may just have more freedom than she can handle right now. Longer term, you might try designating an area in a room where the family tends to congregate that is hers and make sure anytime she is not with you she is secured in that area and given a command to stay. Savannah uses "Rug!". Others on the forum use 'place' or 'bed'. At least in our house, it is different from 'crate'.

Hope something in this list will be useful for you. Good luck!


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## aeb54765 (Sep 2, 2014)

Have you done bell training? I as having a hard time With Kimber but as soon as we started using the bell she's only peed once or twice and always in the same spot. For the bell training when you take them out to go potty you grab their feet and hit the bell give them a treat and go out then you give them a treat when they potty outside as well. Kimber picked this up in two days and now hits the bell every time she needs to go. We also have a schedule with her after she eats she has a half hour play then outside to potty. We also don't leave the water bowl down and when we had issues with poop we didn't leave food either.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

NO !!!!!!!!! from pup 2 teen & then MATURE !! TIME just changes how U handel your V - they are forever YOUNG !!!! - ALF the pup b4 PIKE - try this ! @ 15yrs young - a 20hr trip out west 2 hunt 30min over 4 days - 2 do less - NO respect 4 the BREED !!!!!!!!


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## Lenalou (Nov 27, 2013)

I left this forum about five months ago as some members, instead of helping new owners were downright rude. Today, my pup is 10 months old and we're doing really well. After the biting and shark attacks ended he's turned into the softest, most gentle, well behaved young man. I thought I'd dip in to this forum today while I had time to kill and see what people were up to, and was disappointed to see that desperately struggling people are still being given some unsympathetic responses. Most people try and be nice but a small minority seem patronising and belittling. 
*This post was edited by Texasred.
We will not allow any personal attacks on other forum members.
*HVF rule
1. Each member will treat others members with respect, be tactful, and be courteous, at all times. There is always a proper way to respond to someone. We encourage good discussions, because this is the way we learn and no one will do the same thing as other do. We want members to respond with honest straight-forward opinions, but members needs to refrain from injecting their snarky, degrading personal feelings that adds no value to a post, but causes disruption. If you cannot do this, it will be best that you do not respond to the post at all.


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## dextersmom (Oct 29, 2013)

I don't have any advice on the potty training issue... that is pretty strange. Definitely make sure you're being consistent - when either of our dogs have had trouble potty training it's been because we've stopped being vigilant about going out, ringing the bell, giving treats, etc. 

It does get easier! 7-8 months was the hardest period with our guy. He seemed to hit his teenage phase early. I thought it'd be the worst at about 10 months, but he pretty much got easier from 8-9 months on.



jld640 said:


> I didn't give Savannah unsupervised time in the house for a long, long time. As mswhipple says, "they chew 'til they're two." Keeping her on a leash with you will take care of near term issues, but she may just have more freedom than she can handle right now.


Same here. Dexter is over a year old and he's just starting to get unsupervised time in the house. As in, he can sleep on the couch after going to the park while I take a quick shower in the hall bathroom. He loves to destroy things and so we just don't give him the chance. We puppy proofed to the point where he can't get into much so he gave it up. He started getting a lot better at about a year. Try limiting his access to rooms in the house - keep all doors closed and tether him to you if you can't see him in your main room. Try not to crate too much because then you're missing all the opportunities to teach him how he should be acting in the house. Another thing to try is giving him a job to do when you can't watch him closely. Dexter will play the "find the cookie" game for hours and stay out of trouble because he's busy focusing on that.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

I must V the rude 1 - just being honest - potty training - shark attachs - chewing everything - they go away - what is left - a V that still has a purpose - so as they mature - you must set goals - a V will always be a couch pup at night - the things that drive you crazy as pup will go away - now the work begins - bring out the best of the breed - this takes a LOT of WORK !!!!!!!!


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## Rbka (Apr 21, 2014)

Dogs learn best from positive reinforcement NOT NEGATIVE -- you must witness he behaviour you want and reward like crazy for it! 

Maybe Stand where you want the puppy to go potty and repeat the command until it happens then treat treat treat! I used to spend 15+ minutes out on the front lawn standing like a statue with Nico on leash saying "Nico go pee. Nico go pee. Go pee Nico. Nico go pee." And then "Good go pee! Good go pee!" (Also for "Go poop". It was easy to tell if he had to poop by looking at how much his butt was puckered. Creepy? Maybe.... But super useful  )

Nico didn't like peeing on grass at first either (probably because when we first got him there was snow & ice everywhere so he wasn't used to it) so I would pick a spot to stand where he was on grass only and waited til he would go potty.

Work on the command "leave it" and when he fixates on an object he wants to destroy give the "leave it" and treat like crazy! Dunno if that'll help but we taught Nico "leave it" really young & it's been so useful on many occasions.

Good luck!! I hope things get easier for you soon!!


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## MrsKiva (Mar 8, 2014)

IT WILL GET BETTER! Our V was exactly the same, would pee everywhere regardless how many times he was taken out. He is now 11 months, and we have not had an accident for at least 2 months. He is our 3rd dog, and by far the most frustrating puppy. However, it is getting easier, slowly but surely. You guys will be great 👍!


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## inchhighj (Jun 2, 2014)

I was surprised at how well a small bell attached to the back door frame worked too. If ever she went indoors I wouldn't even say a word or look at her while it seemed like she mocked me while cleaning it up! Then as above go completely overboard with attention and praise every time she went outside. Found that mental stimulation would tire her out just as much as and really perfecting all the simple commands in different areas and environments getting her to sit in exact spots and wait do nothing and again mad with praise for doing the smallest bit of even remotely good behaviour and completely ignoring for anything less. Jaffa is 6 months now and I'm completely amazed at the girl we've raised as she was our first dog ever. Just keep working at it but don't get frustrated or angry or you've lost the battle before it's stated.


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## tknafox2 (Apr 2, 2013)

Here is a similar link, with lots of additional posts to help answer the question.

http://www.vizslaforums.com/index.php/topic,17322.msg111154.html#msg111154


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## Cakegirl (Mar 28, 2014)

Thank you all for the advice. I will definitely start the bell training! I actually have some sleigh bells on a leather strap I put on the door at Christmas that would be perfect.

Today was another rough day. I took him and my toddler on a 6 mile walk. Half way through I stopped at the playground and secured him to a bench due to leash laws at the park. He went completely beserk, barking, freaking out. Wouldn't stop barking. When I would go up to him, he would jump up on me, and claw at my arms. :-/. People were like "So, you need to get your dog some training" and I was like "yeah, we have . Like $700 worth of private lessons." . Maybe this is separation anxiety?
When it was time to leave he jumped into my toddlers lap to steal her snack, and then knocked her snack all over the ground. Then when we got home, he ran into the house and knocked over several glasses on the table, ruining all the papers on it. So I put him outside to get some water and food, and he started barking like mad. Our neighborhood is very sensitive to dogs barking and we have already had the police called on us once, so I had to bring him in and crate him. He is driving me bananas! 

We will keep working on it. But I'm pretty sure this dog is going to kill me, lol.


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## Cakegirl (Mar 28, 2014)

Oh, ps,
We are neutering him in October, so maybe that will help. I have wondered if this is a teenage thing. I may even move it up to sometime in September.


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## tknafox2 (Apr 2, 2013)

Maybe this is a really dumb question, but does he ever get to just run, off leash, run like a lunatic??
I know, if Ferguson doesn't run, he cannot be satiated. A Vizsla Needs to run.
:-\


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## Cakegirl (Mar 28, 2014)

A few times per week I take him to an open space where he can run and run. I was also thinking maybe a dog park could be good? He has a buddy in the neighborhood we get him together with once a week and that really seems to wear him out. So maybe the dog park would be a good idea...


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## CrazyCash (Jul 12, 2012)

Here's a walk down memory lane when my guy Cash was a puppy. He was crazy, energetic, needy, jumpy, very destructive, and not a good listener. He's grown up a lot and he's still crazy and energetic, but he has learned how to contain himself when he has to - that's not to say he's perfect, he's far from that. Vs are just challenging dogs - so smart and full of energy, but so very worth it, they are like no other dog! Hang in there, consistency is key. It will get better and someday you'll be able to laugh at all this. I look back on this pictures and laugh, but when it was happening it didn't seem so funny.


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## MeandMy3 (Feb 27, 2013)

@Crazy Cash - he looks so proud of himself in all of these pictures.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

MeandMy3 said:


> @Crazy Cash - he looks so proud of himself in all of these pictures.


Kind of reminds me of the old Saturday Night Live skits 
Stuart saying "Look what I can do."


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## CrazyCash (Jul 12, 2012)

I think he was proud of himself! He is not a dog that ever feels guilty, when he gets in trouble he always looks at me like "oh, you don't want me to do that, ok, I'll think about it..."


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## Bob Engelhardt (Feb 14, 2012)

CrazyCash said:


> I think he was proud of himself! He is not a dog that ever feels guilty, when he gets in trouble he always looks at me like "oh, you don't want me to do that, ok, I'll think about it..."


This reminds me of that myth about dogs knowing when they've done wrong and feel guilty, when what they're feeling is fear of what the owner is about to do. I suspect that dogs don't even have guilt feelings and I'm not at all surprised to see that Cash isn't showing any fear, either.



CrazyCash said:


> ... I look back on this pictures and laugh, but when it was happening it didn't seem so funny.  ...


More like: "Oh, no, Cash ... why did you have to do that? Jeez, what a mess!"


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

Cakegirl said:


> Oh, ps,
> We are neutering him in October, so maybe that will help. I have wondered if this is a teenage thing. I may even move it up to sometime in September.


Please consider waiting to neuter until he's 18 months minimum. Vets tend not to give the best advice in this area because spay/neuter surgeries are their bread and butter, and they've been trained like the rest of our society to believe it's the responsible thing to do. Do a search on the forum for neutering and you'll see lots of reasons why it's healthier for the dog to wait or to even never neuter. Here's a recent study that links early spay/neuter in vizslas to higher cancer risks. http://www.caninesports.com/uploads/1/5/3/1/15319800/vizsla_javma_study.pdf

It's your dog and your choice, but I just wanted to present you with an alternate viewpoint in case you haven't heard it.


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## mlwindc (Feb 8, 2013)

Cakegirl said:


> Thank you all for the advice. I will definitely start the bell training! I actually have some sleigh bells on a leather strap I put on the door at Christmas that would be perfect.
> 
> Today was another rough day. I took him and my toddler on a 6 mile walk. Half way through I stopped at the playground and secured him to a bench due to leash laws at the park. He went completely beserk, barking, freaking out. Wouldn't stop barking. When I would go up to him, he would jump up on me, and claw at my arms. :-/. People were like "So, you need to get your dog some training" and I was like "yeah, we have . Like $700 worth of private lessons." . Maybe this is separation anxiety?
> When it was time to leave he jumped into my toddlers lap to steal her snack, and then knocked her snack all over the ground. Then when we got home, he ran into the house and knocked over several glasses on the table, ruining all the papers on it. So I put him outside to get some water and food, and he started barking like mad. Our neighborhood is very sensitive to dogs barking and we have already had the police called on us once, so I had to bring him in and crate him. He is driving me bananas!
> ...


I swear... I think vizslas all border on mentally ill...

We are first time vizsla owners of an almost two year old intact male. The first 9-12 months were hard. Totally insane, shark attacks, potty training issues. I also had a three year old at home and it seemed like they fed off each other. That said, what worked for us:

- potty training -- Wilson finally stopped having accidents in the house when he turned 11 months AND we started letting him sleep in our bed. The bells never worked (May be due to our house which has multiple levels), but like magic, once we let him sleep in our bed he never had another accident. I like to joke it was because he finally felt like it was home.who knows. In my very unscientific survey of vizsla owners, they can be hard to potty train. I think it's because they get over tired and don't stop to rest and think about their bodies. Like little kids have accidents because they don't want to stop playing

- shark attacks -- these didn't stop with me until Wilson was about. 9 months. I had a few incidents in public where I worried people were going to intervene and call animal control. I finally decided it was a two prong problem: 1) Wilson didn't have the same level of respect for me as he did my husband, who he stopped shark attacking at 5 months or so, and 2) he was getting to be a teenager and throwing a fit. The thing that finally broke this habit for me was one time I was so mad and frustrated by the shark attack I poured my water bottle on his head mid jump. Our trainer sAid it was like a slap in the face or smelling salts. He never did it again. People say soft hand and positive reinforcement only with these pups... But have you. Seen the way they wrestle and fight with each other? They can take a little tough love and they need it, especially if they don't understand their place in the pack

Finally, we sent Wilson away for ecollar and force fetch training when he was about16-18 months old. I don't. Know if it was the training or the timing (near 18 months), but he has been a significantly calmer and better dog. He listens, minds, recalls. Knows boundaries. He turns two next month and I can't imagine life without him, he's my second baby. I would've never said this when he was under one... So hang in there. What you put in you will get out!


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## mlwindc (Feb 8, 2013)

mlwindc said:


> Cakegirl said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you all for the advice. I will definitely start the bell training! I actually have some sleigh bells on a leather strap I put on the door at Christmas that would be perfect.
> ...


Oh, I will add that he's not neutered because none of his behavioral issues stemmed from being intact. If he was ever aggressive or resource guarding I would have had him neutered (mostly because the liability if he did attack or get into a situation with another dog), but he's always been a people person and totally fine with other people and dogs. Our trainer did say we could neuter him at 18 months because he's such a goof ball and the neutering may help him mature faster, but I didn't think that was a good enough reason to do it. We will keep him intact until we have problems OR he gets to the age where we have to worry about prostate issues. Fwiw, he is beautifully filled out compared to other early neuter vizslas we see around town.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Cake - ! the 5 'P's of a V
#1 Pick the breed ( lot of research ! not just good looks )
#2 Pick a breeder ( even more work ) 
#3 PICK your PUP - ( sorry the heart controlls )
#4 Pick a life for your V 4 next 16yrs
#5 Pick @ the end of the day -DID I DO IT RIGHT 
#6 - Cake - I KNOW you will DO IT RIGHT !!!!!!!!!
#7 IF NOT PIKE & I will HUNT you down !!!!!! LOL
GOOD LUCK !!!!!!!!! it does NOT get EASY - IT just CHANGES !!!!!!!


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

Consistent training across the family, a lot of attention and love (yes reluctantly Dharma has slept in our bed for a long time), and a lot of exercise coupled with some maturity and strict crate training seems to have gotten us through the last 16 months. And if you know about what happened when we first got Dharma it was not easy for us or her. I promise it was all worth it though now. But every dog is different and so are we as dog owners......


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## aeb54765 (Sep 2, 2014)

Cakegirl said:


> Thank you all for the advice. I will definitely start the bell training! I actually have some sleigh bells on a leather strap I put on the door at Christmas that
> Today was another rough day. I took him and my toddler on a 6 mile walk. Half way through I stopped at the playground and secured him to a bench due to leash laws at the park. He went completely beserk, barking, freaking out. Wouldn't stop barking. When I would go up to him, he would jump up on me, and claw at my arms. :-/. People were like "So, you need to get your dog some training" and I was like "yeah, we have . Like $700 worth of private lessons." . Maybe this is separation anxiety?
> When it was time to leave he jumped into my toddlers lap to steal her snack, and then knocked her snack all over the ground. Then when we got home, he ran into the house and knocked over several glasses on the table, ruining all the papers on it. So I put him outside to get some water and food, and he started barking like mad. Our neighborhood is very sensitive to dogs barking and we have already had the police called on us once, so I had to bring him in and crate him. He is driving me bananas!
> 
> We will keep working on it. But I'm pretty sure this dog is going to kill me, lol.


I hope the bell works for you. We have seen a change since we started using it!


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## CatK (May 29, 2013)

Even when you think you're on top of it the rules change again!

Morris (16 months) has been potty trained for a while now, but in the last couple of weeks we have gotten married and had our honeymoon and Morris was a total star throughout. Having returned home, he has decided that he going on pee strike. So 'pee time' no longer makes him pee. He will hold it as long as he possibly can, ignoring the 'pee time' command and lying in the sun even when I know he's desperate! Then when back turned, he'll do it (still outside, so he's just being surly, not naughty). They are so sensitive to change. But I do adore him. He is coming around now, the pee strike phase is ending as we all settle back into our routine.


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## Cakegirl (Mar 28, 2014)

This is going to sound like a "no duh" moment, but I had a little bit of an epiphany with Dakota this week. 
I've been so good about trying to meet his exercise needs, and to stay on top of his behavior, but I realized that I'm not really giving him much love and affection mostly because I'm just so busy the rest of the day and also frustrated with his destruction.
The other day I took him to a park with a lake, and he _actually got in the water_. ;D This is pretty huge, because he has been scared of water so far (even after a week long canoeing trip). I was so excited, praising him, rubbing on him, etc etc, and he was so happy. And then the rest of the day he was also better behaved. 
Something clicked with that, so I've been making a concerted effort to love on him, spend more downtime with him where neither of us is working, and it's made a difference. He has calmed way down! I guess I just haven't realized how much these dogs really are velcro, and how much they need human love, not just long runs and training.


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## 5withV (Sep 6, 2014)

Hi everyone!

Thank you so much for this post! We are getting our boy in three days and I know it's going to be hard work but also a lot of fun. But it kinda helps to know that everyone had to go through this as well!


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

Welcome, 5withV... We will be expecting pictures!! ;D ;D

And Cakegirl, about your epiphany... Did you happen to see that news article just recently about another "dog study"? Somebody did some serious research about which type of reward dogs actually prefer: (1) verbal praise, or (2) pets. The results showed that, by far, dogs prefer to be petted. They want a physical demonstration from their owners that they are loved and are doing things right. It was petting over praise, paws down!!


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## Cakegirl (Mar 28, 2014)

mswhipple said:


> Welcome, 5withV... We will be expecting pictures!! ;D ;D
> 
> And Cakegirl, about your epiphany... Did you happen to see that news article just recently about another "dog study"? Somebody did some serious research about which type of reward dogs actually prefer: (1) verbal praise, or (2) pets. The results showed that, by far, dogs prefer to be petted. They want a physical demonstration from their owners that they are loved and are doing things right. It was petting over praise, paws down!!


No, I didn't! Do you by chance have a link? I'd love to read it!


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## Bob Engelhardt (Feb 14, 2012)

Cakegirl said:


> No, I didn't! Do you by chance have a link? I'd love to read it!


The study was published in/by "Science Direct". You can access it there if you're an academic, or by paying $35.95 (!!).

Lots of news media have a story about it. Google "dogs prefer petting".


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## emilycn (Jul 30, 2013)

The academic is in! Here's the original research. I'll just note for copyright purposes that this is strictly for educational purposes.


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