# The whole biting thing...



## Claire (May 21, 2012)

I've been following the recent bite inhibition thread mentioning Ian Dunbar's method, and personally I've been following a similar method to his when it comes to dealing with Liesel's play biting. 
I was just wondering, how long did you find the biting lasted? I know it must vary a lot depending on the pup (I saw that on the recent thread too) but I'm asking because so far Liesel really does seem to be getting it. Having said this, I notice her biting my friends and housemates a lot more than she bites me, perhaps because they're not anywhere near as strict because she's such a cutie.
In general, do people find they get worse before they stop altogether? Like, perhaps around 3 or 4 months? I'm taking my pup home to Shetland for Christmas to meet the family, and I'd like to think she'll mostly be over it by then, since I have young nephews.
Thanks.


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## dmak (Jul 25, 2012)

I don't think she'll be over it by then. I rescued my pup @ 6 months old and he didn't stop the mouthing/nipping till close to 9-10 months old. Even @ 2 1/2 now he still gets a little mouthy at times of excitement. 

PS. I'm loving all the pics of your pup


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

Yes you are right they are all different. When we bought Boris home at 8 wks I had bought him lots of hard toys to chew on. Big mistake... we were a lot softer to chew. I read in Gwen Bailey's Puppy book that when they bite you, you should replace your hand, leg with a soft toy. This really worked for Boris and he only then ocassionally tried to chew on us. He has never chewed anything in our house except his own toys, which is pretty amazing. The adult teeth are generally in by 5 months so most of the shark attacks should be over by 4 - 5 months. However, Boris is now 10 months and the last 6 weeks he has been chewing his hard toys (bone and nylon stick) as if he was teething. I mentioned this to my trainer and she said his back molars are probably coming through. 

Give her lots of soft toys to chew and teach her No when she bites you and try and get your friends to be firm with her as well other wise it is going to be very confusing for her with two sets of rules.


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## Claire (May 21, 2012)

Ah ok, yeah I agree I need to get all my visitors to be firmer with her - harshness isn't necessary, just a bit of discipline!
I've also found she prefers soft things to the harder toys... my pyjamas and my clothes seem to be her favourite targets, but I do often find that replacing them with a soft toy works. Or ignoring and sitting on the bed with my back to her (she can't get up yet)... but that also seems to just frustrate her, depending on her mood, and she doesn't always stop biting when I get down to speak to her again.


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## SkyyMax (Apr 5, 2012)

When the permanent teeth come, the biting will stop.

Max was very mouthy, at one point I though we have adopted a baby alligator!
Socks were his favorite chew toys, especially on a person wearing them 

Redirecting behavior always worked for us. Good luck!


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## AlmaPup (Sep 18, 2012)

Soft toys work for Alma too. She has an old toy of mine, a stuffed hedgehog, and she loves it.
i think because when she takes it in her mouth, the toy fills her mouth and "reaches" all of her teeth.
She is 4.5 months old, most of her new teeth are out and her biting is much much better than it was 2 months ago.


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## JulieE (Feb 19, 2010)

I remember our V Maggie, had a huge turning point in regard to biting at 14 weeks. I recall being so upset because she kept biting our tiny Boston Terriers tiny little back legs.


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## Claire (May 21, 2012)

Liesel's doing pretty well in general, I thought she was really 'getting' bite inhibition but nowadays she does still have a lot of sharky moods, I guess it comes and goes in phases. 
Just a follow-up question on the biting... from the beginning, I've been using the touch method - that is, she bites me, I touch her back with the tips of my fingers (like a firm poke) and say very firmly "no biting" or something similar. I'll also click my fingers and hold out my hand above her as if to say "enough!". I've always been careful not to do it when angry or frustrated, and I've always tried to be as gentle as possible. 

I'm just slightly worried as she gets bigger and stronger that this method might be a bit 'hands-on' and I'd like to know your opinions. This morning, for example, she was getting particularly sharky and I did my usual method, and this time it resulted in her bounding back and forth in front of me, barking and growling. Her tail was going and I'm pretty sure she was play-bowing too - I'm just so eager to notice any early signs of a problem, and I was slightly concerned it could be aggression. I was standing over her at the time, so perhaps I was intimidating her and provoking a fear type response??

I know Vizslas are notoriously 'soft' dogs but I prefer the idea of treating her (for the most part) like I would any other dog, that is, with a fair amount of discipline.
Does anyone think I should back off her a bit?? I do my fair bit of ignoring her behaviour as well, and yesterday I started putting her in a spare room when she got too sharky. The problem is with that, it's often a struggle to get hold of her and put her through there, and now that she knows what's coming when I say "no biting" and try to pick her up, she'll run off, and I don't like the idea of chasing her down and grabbing her.

Sorry for the long post, just a lot of thoughts!! Would love to know what everyone thinks, particularly about her reaction to me this morning and whether it was just playful or something to be wary of.


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## Claire (May 21, 2012)

Also I just re-read hotmischief's response - although I DO replace my hand/arm etc with toys, I tend to correct the behaviour or walk away from her too. Maybe if I was just calmly replacing with a toy she'd see it as less of a challenge/game/way to get my attention??


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## redrover (Mar 17, 2011)

Rather than pick her up and put her in a spare room, which could be reinforcing to her, I recommend walking out of the room and shutting the door in her face. Socially isolating her for 30-90 seconds can be pretty punishing--it says, "Bite me, and all play and interaction comes to a screeching halt." Jasper quickly left his sharky phase behind when I did that. If she is like my dog, all he did was sit at the door and wait for me to come back out. I started this when he started attacking my feet when I stood up and turned my back on him.

Every pup is different. Redirection did not work at all with my dog. The only thing that worked was what I mentioned above. 

I do think what you likely saw was play. Jasper thought me standing up and turning around was escalating the play, and he would get even bouncier and sharkier. Any touch at all can be reinforcing, so I never recommend any kind of touching if the dog is showing an inappropriate behavior, but that's me, and your mileage may vary. Reaching or standing closely over dogs and their heads can be very intimidating, and definitely not recommended for dogs you do not know. Liesel may not like it, so you may want to try positioning your hand in front of her, rather than over her if you're concerned, although it's probably fine if you've been doing it since she's young. It's the same reason why they tell you not to reach over a strange dog to pat their head--come across from the side to the back, or reach down and pet their chest--it can be intimidating and over-stimulating, and they might jump out of excitement or get defensive. It could in itself also be reinforcing play behavior in her during an unacceptable situation. 

I would simply say "ow" or "no bite," then, without making any eye contact at all, get up and walk out of the room. This gives them a marker word/phrase to know when they're wrong, but does not provoke further play or discomfort through touch, repeated eye contact, or potentially intimidating gestures.


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## Claire (May 21, 2012)

I'll try that from today, thanks. Does seem to make more sense than struggling to put HER through the door and closing it with her trying to get back through to me.
She's pretty bad for biting my feet when I stand up too, so hopefully this'll help with that like it did for you!


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

Physical punishment (smacking, poking, etc.) is a terrible idea for training a puppy. We went over to my hubby's grandmother's house for thanksgiving & one of his cousins brought their 5 month old puppy. Every time the dog got riled up and nippy the cousin would smack or kick the puppy. The puppy of course had no idea what was happening, so the biting continued. Needless to say, we weren't there for very long. 

If your pup is being nippy, try shoving a soft toy in her mouth & playing some tug-o-war. This always helped us when Riley was having her sharky moments.


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## Claire (May 21, 2012)

I would never dream of smacking her and I don't believe I'm hurting her when I do the 'touch' - but I do see your point. I'm going to just adapt depending on how well she takes to any methods I try - the 'biting' back for nipping behaviour seemed to work at first but as she's becoming older and braver, it seems to just be challenging her and turning it into a game. Putting toys in her mouth doesn't work anymore either - I think she's bored of the toys we have, I'll need to invest in some more! 
Also as of today I've started just leaving the room when she bites. Seems to be getting through to her at last.
There are so many different opinions and ideas out there, it's just hard to know what is ultimately best for her, that's all I want.


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## Phoebejane (May 10, 2012)

Hey Claire..

I know it's so confusing on what to do during the puppy nipping stage and honestly it doesn't take days to notice improvement it takes weeks and months lol 
Find what you think is best and stick to it so it is consistent.. Harry nipped until he was about 20 weeks It's a slow process but one day you will think to yourself "ooohh I have no teeth marks on my hands"


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## GarysApollo (Nov 27, 2012)

My boy stoped at 4 to 5 months. We would give him a toy when he started and if that didnt work we would walk away and not pay attention to him for a couple minutes. Because he wanted us around every second he cought on very quickly that when he started we would walk away.They get much better.


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## Claire (May 21, 2012)

Thanks. So far I think I'm noticing an improvement after a couple of days of leaving the room when she bites - both skin and clothes. It does depend on her mood a bit, but she is showing more restraint.


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## roxy2011 (May 21, 2012)

roxy was pretty good i gave her nyla bones and a blanket and if she bit me i very gently bit her ear back ... i know that sounds odd but shes been fine ever since !!!


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