# Should I Go Grain-Free?



## tanners_mama (Sep 22, 2011)

First off, just want to give a "thank you" to everyone on this forum! From more experienced posters like redbirddog, Mischa, Suliko, mswhipple, Gunnr, etc. to others new to the breed with pups. I always love the wide range of feedback, and it is nice to hear that sometimes I'm not the only one having issues with my little V! 

That being said, I'm in somewhat of a dilemna. I joined this forum not knowing a whole lot about canine nutrition, the good the bad and the ugly. I currently feed Tanner, my 5 month old V the puppy food by Wellness. After researching and after recently making a visit to a local holistic pet store, I really want to feed Tanner a grain-free food. Most (actually all that I've found) are also an all-life-stage diet. 

I had asked my vet about an all-life-stage food for him, and she stuck her nose up at the idea, told me I NEED a puppy food for him and tried to sell me off on some Science Diet crap. Needless to say, he is doing OK on the Wellness, but my one gripe is that I usually have to feed him 4 cups a day, and he is still hungry alot of the times! He is 35lbs and look healthy to me (not overweight and definitely not too thin), farts are awful and poop isn't always the best (ew). 

I'm seriously considering Acana, which I really like the sounds of, and having a variety of different flavors (main protein sources) to chose from is nice too! I like that the protein amounts aren't as extreme as Orijen, but all human-grade ingredients is top in my book, as well as having to feed less! Wellness isn't cheap especially with how much I'm feeding. I know that neither is Acana but in the long-run it definitely will be. I got a sample the other day from the holistic place and I have never ever seen him so excited to eat before.

So what do I do? Betray the vet and put him on an all-life-stage grain-free diet? Get a new vet? Does anyone else firmly believe a 5 month old NEEDS puppy food?

(Sorry for the rambling, and I know there are so so many threads regarding food... you all are much more experienced than I, and I appreciate everyone's opinions)


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/06/dog-food-for-very-active-vizsla.html

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2011/06/dogs-stomach-food-and-salmonella.html

tanners mama,
A couple posts that you may have looked at. Dog food is an industry where dog owners collectively spend billions of dollars annually. The food Bailey eats is different than Chloe. Bailey runs HARD and burns calories at a great rate. He needed a food that would give him the fuel to burn. Chloe runs, but doesn't burn as much fuel because she doesn't run as hard or as long.

Think of your dog as a world-class athlete. If you want that performance, then feed that way. But if you have a couch potato, then that extra fuel would turn to mush. 

Food has never been much to me personalily more than fuel to run my body. That is how a feed our dogs.

They really don't care about food except as fuel. They are animals.

When I go to the supermarket and look at the breakfast foods and think, "people actually feed their kid this sh*t", our dogs have it good.

Good luck and keep enjoying your red bird dog addiction.

RBD


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

It's nice to see an owner care so much about her dogs diet. 

We are feeding Wellness Core which is grain free, but will be trying out 'Go grain free endurance' once her Core is down far enough to mix in some of the new food.

I forget the reason, but my g/f is interested in trying out the new food. I'll get back to you once she reminds me why... 
I personally am very happy with Core. It is pricey, but I especially like the glucosimine/condroitin for her joints, as I have terrible back problems and these nutrients can help humans as well as dogs. Her poop is firmer although there seems to be more than there use to be... her gas is not nearly as room clearing as it once was, but Core and Go are both still fairly high in protein, so that is to be expected. lol 

We tried Acana, but Mischas poop was gross! So we went to Origen. Same deal.

The reason we switched to grain free in the first place was because it is suppose to help fight urinary tract infections. Females are more susceptible than Males, but it is still something to think about. Mischa has not had another UTI since we switched, so we stick with grain-free whether that be a coincidence or not. 

I suggest buying a few small bags of food and see which one your little guy does best on.
Mischa will eat anything and everything, so we never had to convince her to try any new food. We base our decisions on what comes out the other end. 


Also, good job on not buying into the "Hills" brand. I hope that my posts had something to do with that, as years ago a Vet tried to sell us on it. His sales pitch was clear as mud, so I decided to do some research. Turns out corn is nothing more than a filler...and of course the #1 ingredient in most of their foods.


edit: we switched to an all-life-stage food at around 7-8 months of age.


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## Kobi (Oct 26, 2010)

If you would like to try a grain free puppy food, you could try Blue Buffalo Wilderness Puppy. It is sold at Petsmart. My girlfriend's puppy is eating it (not a V), and seems to be doing well. Blue Buffalo's Wilderness is all grain free and also for adults. It's the BB that's in the shiny bags! I would definitely say I'm happy with it, Kobi has been running 30+ miles a week, as much as 10 at a time, for a few weeks now and still has plenty of energy. Even the cat likes Kobi's food, even though he gets his own Blue Buffalo food


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## KashagLake (Sep 27, 2010)

We also had problems with Acana, Holly is a working dog and she required more protein in her diet, her body burned right through the food and she ended up having two episodes of low blood sugar. Also REALLY stinky farts & runny poops.


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

*tanners_mama*, good job on wanting to explore and know more on nutrition!  I had a very hard time with picking the right food for my Sophie. It took a long time to discover that she was allergic to grains, flour in food, snacks, or treats. We changed to Orijen at 6 months. It took a little while to adjust, but she has been doing great on it. No scratching, the coat looks beautiful, she's very healthy (knock on wood). I do agree with RBD that not everyone needs the high protein amount that Orijen offers. There are other great grain-free brands out there like already suggested: Blue Buffalo, Taste of the Wild, Acana, etc  
Good luck with whatever you choose. Plus, keep in mind that Vizslas can be very picky eaters, and in few months you might be looking for a different food thinking that Tanner doesn't like it anymore


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

We've tried a lot of the well-known grain free foods. We chose grain free after an early UTI & outbreak of inexplicable hives on several occasions. Pumpkin came to us on Blue (pretty sure puppy is not grain free), & she didn't like it. Same with all Wellness. We've been on Orijen, Taste of the Wild, and finally Go! Natural Grain Free Endurance. Go! Gets top ratings, and isn't quite as expensive as some of the others. I get a 20 lb bag for $49 (free shipping) at Amazon. Great food, Pumpkin eats in better than others; however, my current delimma is P will eat Innova without any mixing/additives. It is not grain free and not as good quality wise as Go!, but she really likes it! I discovered this when I waited a day too late to order food. Ran to Petsmart & grabbed a bag of Innova to tide us over. My picky P gobbled it up! So-so food she loves or top-quality she doesn't (requires mixing with enticers)?? Sigh....I highly recommend Go! if going grain free. Pumpkin's coat is nice & shiny. Good luck!


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## tanners_mama (Sep 22, 2011)

Wow! Great responses everyone.... trying to sum up some stuff below:

*Mischa* - I'll be interested to hear why the g/f is interested in the switch. I like Wellness products and Core definitely seems to be a great grain-free food. If I switched Tanner to Core right now, he would need 1/2 the amount of food I'm feeding him right now! That is, according to feeding guidelines which I don't totally go by! Do you feel it is OK to feed a grain-free diet to a puppy?

*Kobi * - We tried regular BB and Tanner wasn't a fan, so I'm not sure that the Wilderness is a good pick, but maybe I'll pick up a small bag anyways to try it out!

*Suliko* - did you switch to the Orijen puppy @ 6 months? How do you feel about an all-life-stage @ 5 months, since there are really limited options for grain-free puppy foods on the market.

*kellygh * - The holistic pet store also sold the Go! brand of food, so I'll see if they have samples for me to try. Same question - grain free all life stage for 5 month old puppy - yay or nay?


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## Kobi (Oct 26, 2010)

Also, just thought I would add Kobi also liked Orijen and Fromm Surf & Turf, both of which are grain-free. He's on Blue now since it's cheapest, locally available, and high quality.


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

I want to say she was interested in the switch because of the cost, but I'm the cheap-skate, so I doubt it! 
I'll try to remember to ask when she gets home, or she may chime in if she sees the thread. 
We both post under our dogs name, but I'm the one who starts arguments for some reason  I can't help it. I'm passionate about my dog....her dog when Mischa misbehaves of course! 


I'm pretty sure it's fine to go grain-free, all-stage for pups. We're talking about high quality foods here, and I believe the difference in puppy food is higher carbs as they burn more energy being puppy's. These high quality foods offer what seems to be a very well balanced diet so imo they're a good choice.

From what I have read, low carb, high-protein, can be trouble for pups because they need the carbs for energy, and too much protein can cause them to grow too quickly. 
That would be why you'd avoid a food designed for an elderly dog, but I wouldn't hesitate to try out any 6-star (dogfoodanalysis.com), all stage food with a pup.

The idea behind grain free is that dogs in the wild will go after meat, and get some veg from the stomachs of their prey. They apparently never search to eat wheat of rice. But, when they're ill, rice is easy on their stomach, so some grain is fine as well I'm sure.

There is so much info available, and when it comes to dogs, there are more opinions than breeds. 
It isn't an easy choice. Happy shopping.

-Dennis


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

*tanners_mama*, yes we switched Sophie to all-life -stage at about 5 or 6 mos. The ingredients are exactly the same as the puppy food, just the order and ingredient proportions vary. I actually printed out all Orijen dog food product analysis and compared each one of them. You can find detailed product information on their website, if you are interested. Like mentioned previously, Orijen is very pricey, can upset dog's stomach initially, and, yes, the smelly gas. Once her stomach got used to the food (few weeks), all that went away...but let me tell ya' - before that, Sophie could clear a room under a second! ;D now, she bearly ever has gas. 
The reason we are continuing to feed Orijen is because Sophie has been thriving on it; she is very healthy, and I'm afraid to ruin that great balnce. 

At 1.5 years, we feed her a cup in the morning and a cup in the evening. Additionally, she gets veggies, raw bones, and some raw meat once in a while.


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## tanners_mama (Sep 22, 2011)

*Suliko* - You sound just like me! My boyfriend calls me Google-Kim, as I am constantly researching the latest and greatest on just about aything online! But I guess I didn't look hard enough, I did not know that the ingredients were the same! What a coincidence. After hearing that I already feel better about my wanting to switch. It is also good to hear I'm not the only one wanting to make the switch from a puppy food at a younger age, to something that is of higher quality, and closer to their "original" diet IMO.

*Mischa* - Believe it or not I'm kind of a cheapskate too, but not when it comes to food  So what if it costs me more to feed me and my best friend better food? I'd rather have us happy and healthy! I also agree with you that if you are going to take a pup off of a puppy-specific food, there is nothing better to put them on than a high-quality grain-free food. But, do not want to do too high of protein after all my tiring research 

It is awesome to see the passion and debate everyone brings to the table. We obviously all love our little gingers very much  If there was no difference of opinion, this would be a pretty boring forum!


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

Both our V and dachshund were put on life stage, grain free food as pups. Too much protein should not be an issue. The problems growing too quickly are more common in large breed dogs (Great Danes). Go! Natural Grain Free has 32% vs 42% with Orijen. I don't buy into Orijen having too much protein. That's just my opinion though based on the reading I have done. There are lots of good foods on the market (the typical vet Hill's diet is NOT one of them), but I am biased towards Go!, because it's a 6 star food & lower cost. $25 cheaper per bag than our Orijen retailer, and no gas cost ;D I do think your pup needs puppy food if you do not go with a Life Stage food. Nature's Balance is another good food that is life stage.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

Our V Riley is going to be 14 weeks on Monday... is it too early to switch her to grain-free? She is on Organix right now (corn/soy/wheat free and 28% protein). They have a great looking grain-free food that is 30% protein.


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

If the grain free is a life stage food of quality, then its not too early, IMO, threefsh. Corn is one of the worst, and is not benefical when trying to heal from a UTI. How's Riley doing? Make sure the grain free food is listed as appropriate for puppies. Many grain- free foods are life stage, but I'm not sure all of them are. Hope Riley is feeling better. Pumpkins UTI started @ 9 wks, and it was one of the reasons we switched her to grain free, but she was not wild about many of them. Sometimes food choices are dictated by what your dog will actually eat . Good luck!


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

kellygh said:


> Both our V and dachshund were put on life stage, grain free food as pups. Too much protein should not be an issue. The problems growing too quickly are more common in large breed dogs (Great Danes). Go! Natural Grain Free has 32% vs 42% with Orijen. I don't buy into Orijen having too much protein. That's just my opinion though based on the reading I have done. There are lots of good foods on the market (the typical vet Hill's diet is NOT one of them), but I am biased towards Go!, because it's a 6 star food & lower cost. $25 cheaper per bag than our Orijen retailer, and no gas cost ;D I do think your pup needs puppy food if you do not go with a Life Stage food. Nature's Balance is another good food that is life stage.


There was some changes to Origen while we were buying it. Mischa was doing really well, then all of a sudden the stank gas and soft poop came back. I read an article on dogfoodanalysis about them changing some ingredients and I believe upping the protein a few percent. There was a discussion on it, and many people had noticed their dogs reacting to it but just as many that reported no change.
We switched to Core after that.

I spoke to my little lady this afternoon, and she reminded me why she wanted to try another food. 
Mischa has the terrible habit of eating fresh poo. Not hers, but other dogs. And not old ones, but very fresh ones.
We've gotten to the point where the words "drop" or "leave-it" work for every toy, or bone, but the **** dog loves her some poop. It is so disgusting that I probably blocked it out of my brain. :-[
It is a work in progress, and I don't think a change in diet will fix it. We fed bananas for weeks as was suggested, and it didn't matter. Hungry or full doesn't seem to change it either, but she does seem to be listening more over these past few days. The problem came and went last fall as well so maybe it's a seasonal habit? 

I'll be damned if I'm gonna hold a poop the way I would a toy or bone while training her... hahahahha


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

Interesting about Orijen. It's been a while since Pumpkin was on it. I tend to think its the mixture that upsets some dogs & not others rather than said percentage of nutrients. What do I know though :. If you try Go!, it won't stop the poop dining. Pumpkin occasionally does the same, and has taking a liking to rolling in it--usually wild animal poo. I thought my husband was gonna kill her the other night! If you find the cure, please do share.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

kellygh said:


> If the grain free is a life stage food of quality, then its not too early, IMO, threefsh. Corn is one of the worst, and is not benefical when trying to heal from a UTI. How's Riley doing? Make sure the grain free food is listed as appropriate for puppies. Many grain- free foods are life stage, but I'm not sure all of them are. Hope Riley is feeling better. Pumpkins UTI started @ 9 wks, and it was one of the reasons we switched her to grain free, but she was not wild about many of them. Sometimes food choices are dictated by what your dog will actually eat . Good luck!


The food she's on doesn't have any corn, soy, or wheat. Riley started improving almost immediately after she started the antibiotics. She's acting 100% better with no trouble urinating and no more blood, but we are keeping her on the full 10-day course just to make sure it's all cleared up. I still don't know what caused the UTI.  The Organix grain-free doesn't say it's for all life stages, but it does say it's ideal for "active" adult dogs. http://www.castorpolluxpet.com/product/natural-ultramix-grain-free-adult-dog-food I'd like to find something we don't have to get shipped, but I will do that if it's what is best for her.


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## tanners_mama (Sep 22, 2011)

Crazy about the poo eating habit... Not sure I'd be okay with that one! Ew 

Anywho, I am pretty convinced and interested to see how Tanner will fare on a grain-free diet. Will probably pick up a few small bags tomorrow and see what he likes/doesn't. I'll report back on my findings!!

My vet will just have to deal with my decision, I think it's better for my little guy and that's what matters to me 

Again, thanks so much for everyone's input!


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

kellygh said:


> Interesting about Orijen. It's been a while since Pumpkin was on it. I tend to think its the mixture that upsets some dogs & not others rather than said percentage of nutrients. What do I know though :. If you try Go!, it won't stop the poop dining. Pumpkin occasionally does the same, and has taking a liking to rolling in it--usually wild animal poo. I thought my husband was gonna kill her the other night! If you find the cure, please do share.


I honestly can't remember what the new ingredients were, just that we noticed a big difference in our girls stinky butt. I agree, I figure individual ingredients would matter more than a few percent increase in meat content.

We'll be trying Go for sure. I've already got a monster size bag of it here. I think her Core will be down low enough this weekend to mix up a weeks worth of the 2. 

Mischa doesn't roll in it at all, that would be wasting the tasty treat I guess... so gross!
I will gladly share anything I learn on how to stop it. It's the least one nutty dog owner can do for another! ;D


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

Has anyone tried "Taste of the Wild"? My friend has her kelpie on it and she loves it. She gave me a sample packet & Riley went crazy for the few bits I gave her. It is grain-free and it says for "all life stages".


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## markernm (Nov 22, 2011)

Our pup (9 months) is on Taste of the Wild and she loves it! She is on the High Prairie Canine Formula and we have been nothing but happy with it. When we got our pup she was itching a lot, losing hair, and was very underweight, but since we have had her on the food her hair has grown back and looks awesome and she is a perfect weight now. Prior to this food she seemed to force down her meals, but now she is super excited about eating. We have recommended this food to many others and they have all loved it.


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## Dubyajay (Apr 9, 2010)

The poo eating is usually an indication that there is something missing in her diet.

If the bananas aren't fulfilling what is lacking in her diet, try some other fruit or veg, she will tell you what is missing. (obviously not potassium).


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## tanners_mama (Sep 22, 2011)

Update: So far we have tried 1 kind of grain-free, Acana Grasslands. Tanner loves it. Jane (the Dane) tries to steal it, so it's definitely a hit in our house! I have slowly started to incorporate it into his Wellness food, he scarfs it down so fast. I can tell why he likes it too... it actually smells like REAL food! 

But unfortunately I have noticed one real side effect so far - liquid poop  (sorry to be descriptive)

Going to try and stay with this for a little while though, try and get his system fully accustomed to the switch and then re-evaluate after. I'm hooked on grain-free, just a matter of finding which one works for Tanner!


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

Sorry to hear about the liquid poos. Try to phase into the new food slowly and also add a table of mashed sweet potato or pumkin. This will keep the poo more solid.


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