# Vizsla Club of America Welfare Foundation 2008 Health Survey



## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/wOhxTo6GtkcPNed96RaCYYr0Am1LsAdLBDrYU_nlORS4tHNZNozQ2pFN01v8yuyV6gMQ3O9BTOYgBe9XaobIy2zhicC5GaI0VQ0-REM/Vizsla%20Health%20Survey%20Analysis_Final%20V3.pdf



> The 2008 Vizsla Health Survey was sponsored and funded by private donations to the Vizsla Club
> of America Welfare Foundation, Inc. The purpose of this health survey was to scientifically
> research what the real current health issues are in the Vizsla breed. This survey focused on current
> health issues and other questions regarding current Vizsla health and research. Therefore only
> purebred Vizslas born from 1992 until present participated in the survey.


More information about health issues regarding Vizslas then you ever thought possible!

RBD

Also posted on my blog:
http://redbirddog.blogspot.com


----------



## Oquirrh the V (Jun 24, 2011)

I can't get to the survey from either the link on this post or the link from your blog.


----------



## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> I can't get to the survey from either the link on this post or the link from your blog.


It is an PDF file that requires Adobe Acrobat. 

I think you can download free version at:

http://www.adobe.com/products/reader.html

Rod


----------



## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Link above seems MIA...

Interesting summary by Vizsla Canada.....PDF attached for your viewing pleasure. 

2009 Result of VCA Welfare Foundation Health Survey 
Here are some points of interest from the Health Survey:

*Incidence of cancer in the non spay or neuter Vizslas = 9.22%
Incidence of Cancer in the spay or neuter Vizslas = 32.73%*[/color] 

* Epilepsy = 3.0%
Hip dysplasia = 2.16%*
Entropian/ectropian = 1.0%
Elbow dysplasia = 0.2%
Hypothyroid = 1.0%
Hyperthhyroid = 0.76%
Auto immune thyroid = 0.28%
*Cardiac disease = 0.2- 0.04%* Because they suffer from the crazy running Vizsla syndrome! And that's why a fat cat (if you are lucky enough to own one) needs a Vizsla (HSP) to keep it fit. 

From Vizsla Canada (http://www.vizslacanada.ca/)
"While they require less than some of the other sporting breeds, adult Vizslas still need a minimum of 45 to 60 minutes of vigorous daily exercise. Puppies will require 2 hours of play and exercise a day. Since dogs generally don't run around a yard on their own, YOU will need to walk, run, jog or hike each day with your Vizsla. If you're not an active person, then buy a cat or a dog with lower energy and exercise requirements.
Vizslas have a protective instinct but should not be aggressive. If you're looking for a guard dog, don't buy the Vizsla."


----------



## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Thanks for updating link. 

Interesting data regarding cancer. 

Incidence of cancer in the non spay or neuter Vizslas = 9.22%
Incidence of Cancer in the spay or neuter Vizslas = 32.73% 

Another reason to think hard on the neuter / spay option.


----------



## dmp (Jan 23, 2012)

redbirddog said:


> Thanks for updating link.
> 
> Interesting data regarding cancer.
> 
> ...


Correlation is not causation. Sorta like - what if they used 'wearing blue collars' as a criteria. Without context regarding health history, environmental factors, or other stuff, it's just data that doesn't make sense - so it's not really a reason to think hard on neuter or spay. 

And reading the text, there was not a block for "spayed or neutered" - but a block in the survey for 'age dog spayed or neutered' - if that block was filled in, they considered the dog spayed or neutered. 

That's not proof. That's not even really evidence to say or suggest spay/neuter 'causes' cancer or even LEADS to cancer. 

Reading through the report, I get the idea they conducted this survey with an agenda.

How many types of lies are there, Mr. Mark Twain? Three. Three types. Let's take the results of our 'likes' survey. 57% of my posts get 'liked', 35% of yours. What does that mean? It'd be easy and foolish to say my posts are "better' (however we'd come up with what 'better' means is way beyond me. No baseline for 'good'.). You provide vastly-more-detailed and informative posts - I tend to post 'soft' and 'fun' and light-stuff. Maybe I have a forum stalker who likes everything I write? Who knows? Doesn't matter at all - despite what the data show. 



How many spayed females developed ovarian cancer, or neutered males developed testicular cancer?

Zero. 

(shrug)


----------



## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

I think we should start removing peoples' ovaries and testicles when they are babies... that way we can prevent all ovarian and testicular cancer! : (--> sarcasm... in case you hadn't noticed...)

Here is what our breeder has to say about it:

_"The tactic used by the vets is a scare tactic - the big C word (cancer). So let me give you my personal experience. No Vizsla that I have ever had contact with has EVER had: breast cancer, cervical cancer, or testicular cancer! So how many could that be? Lets see, between mine, my puppies I have bred, my Vizsla's parents, grandparents etc - well over 250 Vizslas. Please contact me if your vet is pressuring you to spay an neuter young. Spaying a 6 month old female is like giving a hysterectomy to a 6 year old girl! Please dont fall for the cancer scare."_


----------



## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Like with any surveys it takes more than one, but with the information more can be done to either build on the finding, or rule them out.
This is not the only study going on to find out the difference in dogs that were spayed or neutered.
There are ones that look for the differences in dogs that were spayed or neutered before the dog has a chance to mature.

Stating if you cut it off then there is not a chance of cancer in that body part is kind of a smug approach. Its like saying if you have all your teeth pulled out you will never have cavities. Both are true statements but it doesn't make them the best options.


----------



## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

dmp,

Are you going to put your pup under the knife at the earliest opportunity? Just get it done and over with?

When in doubt let nature be natural. What's the hurry to spay and neuter? 

We listened to "conventional wisdom" with Chloe and spayed at 6 months. From the study I have done since I wish I had waited. Bailey is intact and will live his life out with his jewels.

I'll error on the side of health 100% of the time.

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2011/01/rethinking-spay-neuter-in-2011.html

The survey was not the only one done in this area, but was one of the only ones specific to the Hungarian Pointer.

RBD


----------



## pippa31 (Aug 2, 2011)

One of the things I really like about this forum is that I feel that even when people don't agree, everyone is trying to do right by their dog...

Our vet recommended a 6 month spay. We spayed Pippa at 8 months. We had contacted her breeder and found out that females in her line usually have their first heat between 8-10 months. Initially I looked for someone who would walk Pippa if she were to go through her first heat cycle (as both my husband and I work full-time). I was unable to find ANYONE willing to walk a dog in heat (even leashed). So, we spayed her before her first heat. IT WAS A HORRIBLE EXPERIENCE (you can actually read some of my panicked posts from when she came back from the vet). I don't think there is any "right" answer - as I stated above people need to do what is right for them/lifestyle/dog. That being said, with our next Vizsla (because I am sure there will be more ), I will figure out a different solution. I do believe in an ideal world, I'd prefer not to spay.


----------



## elliesmom (May 21, 2012)

I agree with pippa. Its a personal choice. I had a 12 yr old female mutt got fixed after 1 litter. Died of old age. My dads male V intact died at 12 also.
Im struggling with this now i have a fixed male rat that has NO problem doin the deed with a fem in heat. ??? :-[ . Thanks for all your advice/wisdom i know my decision to "field dress" ellie will be with much more research


----------



## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Even if one chooses to ignore empirical data collected from over 2000 respondents, ask yourself this.

Do you think removing the reproductive organs of a 5 year old child and then not providing any medical monitoring or hormone replacement therapies will result in zero impact to that child's physical and emotional development?

The reproductive hormones tell the body when and how to grow, when to stop growing, when to close growth plates. It is not out of the realm of science to at the very least theorize that cell reproduction which is dependent upon hormones and testosterone levels to dictate cellular replication can go awry. Cancer is, at it's base level, cellular replication gone awry. The FACT is that there are multiple studies indicating a statistically significant increase in very significant cancers, as well as an increase in orthopedic development issues, cruciate injuries and temperment issues. The fact is also that it is "politically correct" to push spay/neuter. As such, scientific discovery that these procedures just might actually have long term health issues associated with them is generally dismissed in deference to emotion and PR campaigns pushed by our old friends HSUS and SPCA. The same organizations which would prefer NO dogs be bred - period.


----------



## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

^^^^This is the reason my male was not neutered until he was 3 years old and my females are still intact.


----------



## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

If Hungarian Pointer owners would just understand this about early neuter / spay the chances of long lives for their dogs into their late teens would increase.


----------



## Aimless1 (Sep 25, 2011)

A little more on the subject:

http://mmilani.com/commentary-200509.html

I neutered my first two males and spayed my only bitch. Quest remains intact at 12 and there are no plans to neuter Nitro either. There doesn't seem to be any scientific evidence that castration provides real life health benefits for male dogs. 

I would need to do more research but I certainly wouldn't consider spaying before 14 months of age.

All of us want what is best for our companions and each situation is different. The lack of meaningful study into the effect of spay/neuter on hormones and their effect as well as how behavior is affected is appalling. Yet our vets are making recommendations on incomplete data. And to be crass, the vets make more money the more procedures they do, so no real incentive for further study or thought.


----------



## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Our dog's chest keeps developing in relation to his body and it statred not long ago. Now, 16 months, I am sure testosterone is hard at work. 

Every intact dog we meet looks pretty well developed and I must say, better behaved, also. A very deep, barely audible growl is all they need to settle rank. Very cool. 

But then, we have no problems approaching neutered/spayed dogs either, unless, they object... And then we tuck our tail and go about our business


----------



## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Datacan,

I blame you for me being a bit militant about not spaying or neutering early. 

You gave me feedback that you were going to wait until your dog's growth plates finished growing. That was almost a year ago as I recall.

Now look. 16-month-old male pup developing as nature intended.

To the males out there. You are your dog's father figure. You are the Alpha male to your dog. Everything good comes from you.

Do the best for your Hungarian Pointer in mental and physical health. 

Don't do what is "easiest" but what is "best."

This is the 999 post. Next one is on fatherhood for father's day. Titled 
"Raising Free Thinking Kids and Dogs."

First have to get the dogs out for our early Sunday walk. It's going to be hot again today. 

Happy trails,
Nim Rod 8)


----------

