# Dog Park Behavior



## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

I have a question about what you guys think is appropraite dog park behavior.

Since our Gus is generally fearful of people and some other dogs, we have avoided dog parks for the most part. However, as we have very strict leash laws around here, a local off-leash park/trail is one of the only places where we can legally take him to run off leash (we usually do it illegally elsewhere). 

Our first trip to a dog park was a few months ago, with our breeder and Gus' brother, and it went suprosing well - he enjoyed running around and playing with the other dogs, so we decided to try again.

This time, we went without another dog, and went to an off-leash park early in the morning on a weekday, before anyone else was there. Gus really enjoyed running around in the woods/tall grass and chasing his ball. Eventually, a couple of other dogs showed up, a boxer and an older lab mix, neither of which had too much interest in him, and he was fine with them and even tried to play. These owners and dogs kind of kept to themselves and played ball the,selves (as we were doing), and everything was fine. However, then a large black lab came into the park and charged at Gus playfully, making him very nervous, and he snarled and snapped at the lab. Luckily, the owner saw what was happening, and his dog had great recall and left Gus alone. We then decided to leave, and as we were leaving another large dog charged Gus (nicely- but he still got nervous) and he snarled and snapped again. 

My husband was really discouraged all of a sudden and thought that Gus was being mean, but my opinion was more that he doesn't like being approached that quickly and that he was just letting the other dogs know that. I also just read an article by behaviorist Sophia Yin who has a dog who behaves the same way, and she wrote an article suggesting that people need to keep their dogs from charging at other dogs quickly without a proper introduction.

So my question is: do you think we should always avoid dog parks altogether because Gus is fearful when dogs approach him quickly, or do you think other owners should also be responsible for not letting their dogs behave this way? Would you be mad if your dog got snarled at for approaching my dog like this, or would you also see it as Gus's way of "communicating?" When dogs approach him slowly and let him sniff them, he tends to do fine, and plays well. I just don't know if we would be out-of-line trying the park again, knowing that he may snap at another dog approaching too exuberantly. 

I should add that Gus usually sticks near us and his recall is very good - we would like to slowly try the off-leash park again (when there aren't too many other dogs there) because it did seem to be good for his socialization up until the point where the charging black lab scared him. 

http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/dog-park-etiquette-rules


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## flynnandlunasmom (May 28, 2012)

My oldest dog is kind of like yours - fearful of dogs charging and snappy. TO be honest, we completely avoid dog parks. It's too stressful. He has upset other dog owners and has pinned other dogs. He's not the instigator but if a dog runs up to him (even if they're being friendly) and there's something about that dog my dog doesn't like, his behavior is unpredictable. He's never bitten another dog but he can get scary and I'm sure it could happen. I don't ever want to be in that position where he does bite another dog not do i want to put him in that position. 

I would try your best to find places to take him off-leash, even if it's not "legal" or go at off-times. Also, it's good that he has good recall. Ours does too so if we're on an off leash hike when no one is around and we see another dog, we call hi min and leash him and ask the other dog owner to "call their dog". One good thing about leash laws (and breaking them) is that most but not all, owners will leash their dog up too when they see you. 

I've said this on here before but, we were worried about him not getting enough socialization (when he was around 18 months) and our behaviorist/trainer said "Your dog doesn't need friends - he has you for his pack." We've since gotten him a little sister but there were several years (around 3 or 4) when he had very little interaction with other dogs aside from being around them at training classes, though not actually playing with them there.


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## flynnandlunasmom (May 28, 2012)

One other thing I forgot to say jjohnson is that expecting other dog owners at the dog park to "do the right thing" is probably a bit unrealistic. It would be nice and it would make your life easier but I don't think it's all that likely, which is why I think it's best for you to just keep your dog away from the situation. 

I can't tell you how many times off-leash dogs have run up on Flynn when he's been on-leash and I have yelled to the owner "Will you please call your dog?" 

And they yell back "Oh, don't worry. He/she is friendly." 

To which I usually reply "Well, mine isn't" (which isn't exactly true. He's friendly in the right circumstances but at least they get the point).


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## SteelCityDozer (Aug 25, 2011)

Jjohnson- this is EXACTLY how Dozer acts when other dogs run up at him. We still go to dog parks. Dozer will air snap to give a warning that their approach is overwelming. If they walk up instead of run he's MUCH better. These behaviors are more evident when we take a break from the park for a few weeks. Mind you we only go on weekends in the morning to begin with. Dozer never runs up on new dogs to enter the park, he always waits politely. I work to reinforce this by calling him to me when I see someone entering the park. When we're entering and I don't know the other dogs i might first let them meet through the fence. I might leave at this point and go for a trail walk instead and come back later. If the fence intro does well I'll keep him on leash until he can walk through the herd at the gate and then release once everyone's followed us and got their sniff, whatever. I just have to keep him moving otherwise he gets defensive. My trainer would say other owners need to facilitate proper introductions (and I would agree) which involves owner-owner intro then dog-owner then dog-dog if the owners think their dogs will be ok. But reality is that this does not happen. If I know a dog and mine is wary, I get down and pet the other dog and even pet mine at the same time. At the first sign of something not going well we may move further down the park to avoid others. But this doesn't always work and sometimes you have to just leave. Even if you just got there. 

You need to find the "good" times to go to your park which may be trial and error. It's not a fail safe but it will greatly help in finding a group of socialized, confident dogs for your dog to be around.


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## flynnandlunasmom (May 28, 2012)

SteelCityDozer, you are braver than I am. It sounds like you've got it down to a science. I think I just chose to avoid the situation all-together after too much drama. But, you have shown that it can be done if you really want to make it happen.


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Hi Jjohnson,

I read Sophia Yin's article and found it really interesting. I would actually interpret some of those scenarios a little differently and I think this may differ per dog park.

At the dog parks near my home, most of the dog's who come are under the age of 3. Their owners bring them to the dog park so that they can play with other dogs. While I would think a dog which approached another dog while growling at the dog park would be in the wrong, a dog who runs up to play (at our dog park) is completely in the norm and that greeting would be considered acceptable. It wouldn't be acceptable if we were walking on a leash or even hiking off leash. 

Our dog park is kind of cramped and dogs go from dog to dog saying hi and running around. When we are walking, we are very clearly the pack and a dog clearly approaches. At the dog park, it is less clear who is approaching who as dogs run around in circles and various directions. Sometimes the person is standing still while the dog is all over the place (usually my scenario). If a dog snarled when Oso approached, I would probably think that maybe the dog needed to start more slowly with playdates with one or two other dogs. Or that the dog should have a muzzle on. I've seen dogs with muzzles and always thought if Oso showed aggressive behavior at some time, I would look into one (i haven't done research on muzzles though, so don't know if it has other side effects). I really appreciate it when I see a dog with a muzzle and don't think badly of the dog. In fact, I am more apt to let the boy go play with him. 

**Another thing to remember is that since most dogs at a dog park are puppies, even if the owners are training them, we all know it is a process. I find lack of recall more excusable than aggressive behavior. 

So, I guess my answer is that I think it's too much to expect the other owners to be responsible for having their dogs approach slowly (at least at the dog parks I frequent).


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Another note is that I don't let Oso go run up to the gate when a dog comes in. Most of the time, Oso will sniff the other dog, especially if he/she is really close to the owner and not coming to him.

A lot of time introductions will just happen while he is playing with another dog and a new dog jumps into the play.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

A snarl/snap is a warning that usually says "hey! knock it off!" I don't see any issues with it myself. Riley has had many adult dogs do this to her when she was being ridiculously rambunctious and I think it was a good way for her to learn when a dog didn't want a pup messing with them. She has gotten much better at reading dogs to the point where she will determine before even reaching a dog whether or not they want to interact simply by body posture and eye contact. At a year old, she still gets some corrections from adult Vizslas on our walks, but I've noticed she's also starting to teach the younger pups how to behave as well.

As a side note - We never take Riley to dog parks because the dogs there are usually out-of-control with tons of pent-up energy. When the only exercise a dog gets is at a dog park, I think that's an issue.


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

I don't know if there is a difference between a "dog park" and an "off leash park" or if it is just semantics, but ours in an "off leash" area, which I kind of take to mean that it is a place to let dogs legally run off leash, not necessarily just to play with other dogs. There is an open area for dogs to play, but the rest of it is trails and woods. 

Anyway, interesting repsonses. And I have read it is never a good idea to muzzle a dog at a dog park. What if he is attacked by another dog and can't defend himself? I would rather just avoid them altogether. We probably will avoid them in the future - but we had fun and Gus generally had fun until the more rambunctious dogs got there, so I wish we could do it more often


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

I think part of the problem is lack of exposure. I believe a continued exposure to the dog park and socialising with other dogs would reduce his anxiety at meeting new dogs. I am about to put up a post about exposure. Check it out and see what you think.


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## flynnandlunasmom (May 28, 2012)

I have a different experience than Ozkar. We tried exposure to other dogs for over a year after Flynn started having issues and his behavior only escalated. But, I know it's different for all dogs.


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## flynnandlunasmom (May 28, 2012)

For the record, we do expose him to all sorts of things (which I agree is a good idea) but we just don't let him play with strange dogs.


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## ryker (Apr 14, 2012)

I don't think you can expect owners to be responsible, but if it were my dog I wouldn't stop taking him.

I think his snarl is a warning, and a way for the other dog to learn he doesn't like it. I understand your fear of him biting, but honestly, Ryker has charged some bigger dogs in his day (he's only 7 months, so yes, it IS a process) and he was checked by a snarl. He didn't do it again, and I was fine that the other dog checked him. I can't teach him as effectively as other dogs in some things. No one was hurt, Ryker backed away and the other dog was happy. 

I think at a dog park communication with other owners is crucial. Rarely do I expect them to communicate with me first, so I'm often the one that says, 'My dog is really rambunctious, if you or your dog may be uncomfortable with how he plays, please let me know.' That way we avoid snarling instances because I try and keep Ryker occupied elsewhere.

Just my two cents


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

Ozkar said:


> I think part of the problem is lack of exposure. I believe a continued exposure to the dog park and socialising with other dogs would reduce his anxiety at meeting new dogs. I am about to put up a post about exposure. Check it out and see what you think.


I agree.
I know it's tough to deal with because your dogs safety is at risk, but you have to find a way to make him understand that not every dog is a threat. They learn so much through playing with other dogs, and what these guys need is some time to learn.

About the behaviourist: If I hired someone to help me train my unstable dog, and they told me that he didn't "need" friends, I'd show them the door, and find someone who can actually help.
Dogs are social animals, and they do need friends to live happy/balanced lives. It is just that simple.


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