# Biting when removing something from mouth



## kk1095 (Apr 17, 2012)

Just curious if anyone has had a similar experience....

We keep a VERY close eye on our pup, but in the event he gets a hold of something he shouldn't have (this evening was plastic trash blown into the yard), sometimes it's rocks etc., and we try to remove it he gets very aggressive. Is this normal? We normally try to encourage "drop it" by rewarding with a treat after the verbal command, but when he has something he really shouldn't (and really wants) it doesn't work. T

This evening I took the worst of it when removing a plastic bag from his mouth. He first growled and then completely mauled my hand. It was not playful, but rather completely aggressive. Much like a vicious dog bite. But he immediately returned to play mode after.

Any similar experiences or suggestions? He's otherwise not an aggressive or mean dog, loves every person and dog he comes across. Very social, and attending obedience training.


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

Normally this sort of behaviour is exhibited when you try to move food, bones, etc from a puppy. It is an innate insinct which I work on from the first week of bring a puppy home. When I feed a puppy I will practise removing it for a few seconds and then returning it. My pup was fine with his food being removed, but the big test was a marrow bone. When we went to remove this he growled at us and growled at our older dog just passing bye. This is normal, but in a domestic home has no place. I remove the bone making no eye contact, then return it to him a minute later. Bye the time we had done this four or five times he had stopped growling and just wagged his tail at us. 

The key to the success of this is that you are giving the bone or bully back to them. Obviously you can not give them back plastic trash bags and stones. I would suggest you remove the item but have on hand a favourite toy or a bully stick. Do not give them the toy or stick immediatley or you are rewarding the bad behaviour. Wait a minute and then give the replacement item.

I am sure you will get other suggestions from fellow members, but if you do not have any success with these suggestions I would get some professional help sooner rather than later as this is unexceptable behaviour as well as being dangerours.

Good luck and do keep us posted.


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

Read up on this topic both on this and other sites. A dog that puts it's teeth on a human's skin is serious. I'm not talking about a playfull nip here. It should not be tolerated and must be handled swiftly and properly.


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## Racer (Apr 23, 2012)

The puppy classes I've been to taught me 2 things that I have found invaluable (I did learn more than a couple of things there ): handling exercises and teaching the dog to open his mouth for you.

The handling exercises had 2 main variants. One where you cradle the pup and the other where the pup is settled on his side. The gist is you are in control and the pup must settle and give in. You decide when the pup gets up. During this time you also do things like put your fingers in their ears, fingers between their paws, hands in their mouth to examine teeth. They don't like this but they get used to it and oddly enough, they do learn to trust you (ie. you are not going to hurt them).

Open works surprisingly well. You hold the pup in the cradle. With one hand, you force open it's mouth and say "open". You immediately shove an extremely high value treat in their mouth with your other hand. The goal is to get the mouth open for 10sec+. You should be able to count the number of ridges on the top of their mouth. I've been able to retrieve pieces of stick he's gotten stuck on the roof of his mouth. Note the dog won't like it, but the reluctantly will let you open their mouths with a small amount of effort.

I did both of those daily for about a month.

Despite all of this, tho, he did have a growl incident. I feed him raw chicken wings 2-3 days a week. One day, I went over to pet him, which I've done before, and he growled. I grabbed his collar said "No!" and told him to drop it, which he did. I let him have it back and he tried to bolt with it, but I caught him and made him drop it. Gave it back. He growled. Grabbed the collar again. And after that, never again. I can easily approach him, take it away, etc. I also tend to deliberately play tug with really short items to keep him on his paws to control his teeth as well as let him chew on chew toys on me where my arm/hands maybe right by his mouth.

It may have been a harsh way of treating it, but I agree with the others that any aggression needs to be dealt with swiftly. Far better when they are a pup and more manageable. Though they have the sharp puppy teeth, and much larger and stronger V would be more of a challenge to curb.

Good luck!


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

How old is your puppy?
It sounds like he thinks he has the right to defend what he thinks is his.
It might have been fine with a littermate, but not his mother or you.
You might want to check into the NILIF training method


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## finch (Sep 19, 2011)

We used a similar experience to hotmischief. From day one we would randomly take away things she had in her mouth (toys, bones, etc) that she was allowed to have so that we could give it back a minute later. She learned quickly that it was okay to give up what she had b/c she would get it back. Then when she had things in her mouth she shouldn't have, it was easy to get them from her, and if I could treat her after giving up those things, I would. 


Another approach with food is not always to take the food away, but rather get close to their food and give them a little more. Such as when they are eating dinner, walk by and put a couple treats in the bowl. This helps them to learn that someone approaching their food could result in a jackpot!


The only time Finch has ever growled at me was over a marrow bone. She did it the first two times that she had a bone, around 4 months old, and both times, I used the methods I described above. I would take it away and give it back, and I would give her extra treats next to her bone. She has never growled again though she has a marrow bone once a week, and she even has them around other dogs (both her pack and strange dogs) with no problems.


Good luck!


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Not a good sign. May look cute as puppies but has the potential to turn into a nightmare as the dog hits adolescence. 

I read, these dogs should learn to accept human fingers placed and kept in their mouth. All objects and that included any food bones and all must be relinquished on command. Dog should not challenge the owner. 

I feed Sam raw 1/4 chicken, turkey wings, every day. I hold it for him, take it away, send him away, call him back and all this without even a yawn from the dog. RMBs are not a problem.

This is what we did. 
1. I always put away all toys after each play session. All toys belong to me. 
2. Dog got to play with only one toy at a time.
3. Dog never got to eat his toys and the toys were interactive. Without us playing along, the dog has no use for them.
4. Food was served only if he sat first. We placed fingers in the bowl and in his mouth randomly. 
5. Past 5 months obedience training was not an option and all learned commands were enforced *without treats*.

I found this worked, but I had a GSD before... obedience is not optional for those dogs. 
I find Vizsla soft and easy, no need for harsh enforcement - voice and perseverance was enough in most cases. Having said that, I also used a small prong collar.
http://leerburg.com/dominac2.htm

In any case this is not a complete manual, it's impossible to rewrite posts all the time... but it gets the point across.


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## adrino (Mar 31, 2012)

All the above are great advices so I won't repeat that. I only could add when you are trying to remove the object from the mouth don't just snatch it out, put your hand on it first and wait without moving. If you have a command to drop or leave then say it to him and wait. He should let it go, then you could do all what's been already said. 

We had some issue with Elza too and it didn't take long to get her used to it. Every once in a while it still happens if she finds something that she really wants (some rubbish in the park) and I want to take it away but I make sure at the end she will let it go by her own will. 

In the meantime you cannot remove everything he finds and puts it in his mouth. He has to learn what is what... : Elza used to pick up tissues and all kinds of things but now she just walks past it (5 months old). If she drops the object I always give her a little treat.


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## LaVidaLoca (Feb 20, 2012)

datacan said:


> This is what we did.
> 1. I always put away all toys after each play session. All toys belong to me.
> 2. Dog got to play with only one toy at a time.
> 3. Dog never got to eat his toys and the toys were interactive. Without us playing along, the dog has no use for them.
> 4. Food was served only if he sat first. We placed fingers in the bowl and in his mouth randomly.


I have the same principles like *datacan*

I use to do the same with toys. My pup doesn't own any toy. I put all toys away after play time or when she has to get a time out. No toy when going for sleep in the crate.

If my pup would start being destructive with a toy I will take it away ( never happens ). If she starts nipping on her pillow I take it away and she has to lay on the hard ground. 

She has to sit and wait before she gets her food bowl. I put my hand on the bowl while she's eating, fingers into her mouth, touch her everywhere while eating. Sometimes I take her food bowl away and let her sit again and put the bowl down.

She has to go on her place when she gets a special treat like a bully stick. I always take it away from her and give it back. Practising this all the time. 

Whenever she starts being destructive on things she shouldn't - FUN STOPS IMMEDIATELY


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## SteelCityDozer (Aug 25, 2011)

I use to practice these similar methods but then Dozer was worse about giving things up, always nervous we were going to take things away without reason. So I changed my method. I touch him, walk by him, put my hand on his treat, in his bowl, etc. without taking anything away. So he knows I'm not coming to take away something good, I'm simply going about my business. He now will simply drop the treat and rollover when I approach and doesn't take it back until I say. Even though I didn't command a drop. A high value item for him is a wiffle ball which he NEVER wants to give up. So I started putting treats in my hand, let him smell, say drop as soon as hedoes it on his on accord. Now when I tell him to drop things he shouldn't have you would never know we used to have such a battle.


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

Yep. If Copper has a steak in his mouth and I say "Release" it hits the floor, period, end of story. I wouldn't have it any other way. It will come it time. Just continue to teach the "Leave It " command and the "Release" command. I use hot dog pieces for the leave it command. They sit in my hand under his nose. When learning this command he would smell it and go for it. The hand would close before he could get his mouth on the treat. Now, he doesn't even look at the treat until I give him the OK. Then it's gone in a flash.


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## dmp (Jan 23, 2012)

So far, we've been taking things from Pup frequently. As she eats, for instance, I'll occupy her space and give 'leave it'. I'll stand blocking her for a few minutes before "okay!"
When we're playing with toys, or sticks in the yard, and she gets really into it, I often remove the toy just to get her in the habit of having things taken. 

Good advice in this thread.


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