# What constitues a hereditary illness?



## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Intellectual property removed by Author.


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

Big Ken and my crayons could be dull reading this?

Can you explain a plan a warrenty that provides Allergies?

I have some education here

Many to name a few I can go core cell just related to the liver and what thee exposure level is?

Air, nature, seasons, plants, seasons perfume, carpets, dirt , spores , pollens, pollution waters even chemicals to kill ticks and fleas and foods 100,000 others that have nothing to do with blood or DNA?

No disrespect

thanks

I have 1 plant in my front yard injested it can kill you and breathing its spores makes you sick as heck on the spring of the season

comes out today

God bless



I maybe reading this wrong?


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## Emily1970 (Apr 21, 2011)

Not so sure on temperament, but I'd consider hip dysplasia, allergies, and possibly epilepsy hereditary. My vet said hip dysplasia and allergies are.


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## VictoriaW (Mar 16, 2011)

VPI, the pet insurance company, thinks this list is longer than any of us might imagine. 

Conditions excluded in all breeds:

http://www.petinsurance.com/images/VSSimages/media/pdf/1537_Conditions_Not_Covered_Dog_Cats.pdf

Conditions excluded in specific breeds:

http://www.petinsurance.com/images/..._Excluded_Hereditary_Conditions_Dogs_Cats.pdf

Interestingly, there are no specific exclusions for Vizslas. I am guessing they must not have enough data points.


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## Emily1970 (Apr 21, 2011)

VictoriaW do you use VPI? We had Riley insured with them since we got him as a baby, but you know they never paid out one dime and his hereditary illnesses have cost us thousands. :-[


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## VictoriaW (Mar 16, 2011)

No. Indeed, I've talked lots of people out of VPI! We use Pet Plan. Premiums are high but the coverage is outstanding. We have never had anything kicked back without payment.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Ken opened up a can of worms with this one 

Some hereditary diseases (abnormalities in genes at birth) are common in both humans and dogs. That is to say the same gene is affected. Pompe disease for instance. 

Would one consider a one year warranty on human babies as well? Interesting bill, to say the least brought forth in Vermont. Some deep thinkers over there - Nobel prize contenders, no doubt. :


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

One more thought, once the genes of the perfect specimens are mapped. ... Those who have mapped the gene sequence, can patent and therefore own the right to that particular living organism. 

No doubt we are headed in that direction.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Intellectual Property removed by Author.


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## VictoriaW (Mar 16, 2011)

So sorry, Ken...I was in no way trying to suggest that VPI had a valid list. I was simply pointing out that the definition of what is heredity could be remarkably broad depending on one's motives!


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## VictoriaW (Mar 16, 2011)

I am in wholehearted agreement. The law is poorly constructed & will be misused. But I think I am being misunderstood so will quit.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

The definition is plain and simple.
The passing on of physical or mental characteristics genetically from one generation to another.

Where it gets complicated is outside influences.
The breeder and owner have to be open and honest with each other. Both need to be knowledgeable. You can't blame a breeder for outside influences that happen after you acquired the pup.

Then you (breeder/owner) can do everything right, and still have a problem dog. Its problems have never been in the bloodline before, and didn't effect any other littermates or past litters. Its just a fact of life that bad things can happen, and one pup got the short end of the stick. Its no ones fault, its just life. 
This part is my opinion.
The bloodline is good but the effected pup should be culled from any breeding program. I tend to err on the side of caution. The breeder will always wonder if there were outside influences, but most remain a mystery.

If laws could fix all things, then why are there so many problems in the world today?


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Intellectual Property removed by Author.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

post removed by Author.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

No problem Ken. I have the answer to the Vermont legislation.

Can you say $10,000 Vizsla pup?

That should cover it. At least that is what HSUS hopes.

RBD


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## VictoriaW (Mar 16, 2011)

Ken has brought out my inner economics major. ;D

You are right. Some breeders in Vermont may logically respond to this legislation by increasing the price of their puppies -- self-insuring, if you will, against the likelihood that they will need to give refunds to some of their puppy people.

These kinds of hidden costs are a frequent unintended consequence of well-meaning regulation across many markets.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Ken, you didn't even touch the emotional side of it yet.
People want to lash out when their beloved pet has problems.The last thing some owners want to do is believe they might have caused it.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

TexasRed said:


> Ken, you didn't even touch the emotional side of it yet.
> People want to lash out when their beloved pet has problems.The last thing some owners want to do is believe they might have caused it.


And BOY HOWDY if that ain't the truest statement in a long while!


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## VictoriaW (Mar 16, 2011)

I think it can be pretty emotional on both sides...sometimes there are sad outcomes and there just isn't anyone to blame. I've gained such a huge respect for caring breeders since I started paying attention. Boy, it is not a hobby for the faint of heart.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

You buy a car you get a warranty - you may pick a car that has the best warranty - let the buyer pick a great breeder with the best warranty - legislation will neVer be able to legislate HONESTY !!!!!!!


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

post deleted by author.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Yes but if you don't follow the maintenance plan, or drive it like you stole it, the warranty could be voided.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> Yes but if you don't follow the maintenance plan, or drive it like you stole it, the warranty could be voided.


I'm a mechanic by trade and have been around trucks and heavy equipment for 30 years.

You can try and lie about mechanical things but any seasoned mechanic can PROVE to you that you are lying through your teeth and call you on it. Metal don't lie.

Can someone do that with a 8-month-old pup who has joint damage or has been having seizures and tell exactly what caused it? I don't think so, but I might be wrong.

Either breeders go to a "perfect gene pool" (that doesn't exist) or they raise their rates to cover unknown reasons for "lemon law" to be enforced on them and unexpected vet bills. 

HSUS won this one in Vermont, and it isn't about protecting pure-bred buyers. 

*Never was*. You can go to Redbirddog and type in HSUS in the search box for many articles on this organization and it's goals. NONE of which line up with the Hungarian Pointer as a pure-bred dog.

HSUS is quite good marketing and lawyering. Of course they have millions of dollars to work with and LOTS OF lawyers.,

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2012/04/hsus-only-19-per-month-uncage-lawyer.html

"California has already added to the "lemon law", requiring breeders of 3 or more litters in 12 month period to be subject to the same regulations as a commercial breeder. The California law among other regulations states that a breeder is responsible for hereditary & congenital defects for up 1 year after purchase. The language is very vague on what is & is not covered, but it comes down to a Veterinary stating that this is a hereditary or congenital defect."
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=hsc&group=122001-123000&file=122045-122110


RBD


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

Maintenance plan Warranty hard work 

I take a licking I keep on ticking :'(

and a few say soon

I need mercy or a miracle

No sir 

I am the Nordic Warrior Thunder Britches I wared I stood

and I shared ;D

55 supplements daily feed me and great earned foods

" innocent by reason of Insanity" ;D


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

RBD - some organizations want to legislate pups into EXTICION under the guise of protecting them - they keep getting their foot in the door with money and lawyers - some want to outlaw hunting & fishing - others want all slaughter of animals 4 food stopped - Do these people own large organic vegtable farms ?


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

Just so I can attempt to keep up, can somebody clarify "lemon law" please, not a term I've heard before.


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

Harrigab, lemon law is just a term to describe any regulation for protecting consumers from "lemons" or bad products, usually cars. i.e. a buyer who buys a car that repeatedly breaks down would be entitled to a refund or legal recourse beyond any expressed warranties from the seller. 
As RBD and Victoria have pointed out, these laws can have the unintended effect of of making manufacturers, or in this case, breeders raise prices to cover additional liability. 
If Top Gear and Wheeler Dealers have me educated right, you say lemons (bad) and peaches (good) for cars in the u.k., right? 

This thread is a nice change from the usual. 

Even if we could satisfactorily define hereditary illness and rule out other causes, there's still the issue of trying to treat puppies like any other product and grouping breeders into an industry. Good breeders aren't at all like factories and slapping state or federal regulations on them makes no sense. Legislation can't distinguish integrity or intention, it can only deal with quantities. Even if you capped the amount of litters allowed per year in order to get rid of commercial operations, you still couldn't ensure that breeders were ethical or buyers educated. So what legislation in your experience is effective?


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## Emily1970 (Apr 21, 2011)

Well all I can honestly say that I do have a $10,000 Vizsla and thru some research found (too late) that the breeder was at fault thru overbreeding and that my poor pup as one of Riley's specialists says is a genetic mess, but my family comforts itself knowing that we saved him, because most people wouldn't have gone to the lengths we have and continue to do to keep him as comfortable as we can. We did get that offer of a new pup and return Riley, but no way. I'm not sure that any lemon law on breeders would work because there's always loopholes and although we've paid dearly for it, we didn't care to hold the breeder to the warranty because there's no way we would have given him up. Defective or not, we love him.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

What Vermont passed was just a feel good law.
The uninformed will think its to protect the animals and their owners. It doesn't. The animal rights crazies probably threw a party to celebrate their win.
The good, honest breeders have to do some soul searching as each on of these bills are passed into law. At what point does breeding dogs become too much of a liability for them? When it does,what are we left with?


I myself am sick and tired of the HSUS and other organizations like them. I have chosen not to support any business that I know donates to them, people that I know support them are in the same boat. I find them to be easily fooled by the propaganda, and life is to short to be spent with fools.
I make sure elected officials know they will not get my vote, if they vote in favor of one of these bills.


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

Tex Deb keep firing and trying

Your a Tiger in the heart


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