# Crate .....9 hours - Advise



## Vzrunner (Apr 8, 2013)

I have a 13 weeks puppy who can hold it for 4-5 hours inside his crate. At what age I can expect him to hold it for 9 hours? 

Can anyone give me an advise please of what do if I can't give him out his cage every 5 hours for him to do his business? 

Thanks for you advance !!


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

I guess I would recommend a fenced off area in the kitchen and a small crate in there. I used a 2' x 2' tray that I put sod in where the dogs learned to do their business. If you are needing that 9 hours for a flight, or something of that then I don't know how fast you can take that.

RBD


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

Dog walker. 9 hours is a long time. Longest we left Miles is 5 hours, crate or no crate. Vizslas need lots of exercise and attention and will get destructive if their needs are not met.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

If you plan to leave your dog in a crate 9 hours a day, I'd suggest getting at least a 6x10 run, cover it, put a nice dog house and a good sized water bucket and some toys/chews. At the very least it won't be locked in a box all day. A dog walker mid-day would be a great answer in addition to a dog run, which I prefer over a crate for extended periods of time except at night, assuming you are talking about daytime isolation.

Ken


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

if U have 2 leave a pup 4 9hrs a day in a crate - find a good home for him - this is not the way 2 treat any pup or dog - the advice above is great - use it or u r being abusive !!!!!!!!


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

thank you Rem 

unless you work at a zoo :


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## lilyloo (Jun 20, 2012)

The longest we have ever left Ruby in her crate was 7 hours, and we didn't even put her in there until 7 p.m. So, the majority of those hours were her sleeping hours anyway. If it's a one time or every once and a while thing, the above advice is great. Give the pup a large area and have a dog walker.

If you intend to do this on a Mon-Fri basis, you should really reevaluate having a dog, especially a Vizsla. Sorry if that sounds harsh, it just hits a nerve...


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## Carolina Blue (Sep 20, 2012)

Kiya has a nuclear meltdown if she is in the crate for 3 hrs in the day. Not because she has to potty, it is the whole confinement process. V's like/need human companionship.. 9 hrs is a long time without it.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

Uhmmm, never.
My limit is 6-8 hours, after that any accidents are on me,not the dog.
No way a 13 week old puppy can be expected to make it for 9 hours.
I would suggest a pet sitter to come in and get him outside. That you're making 5 hours with him is lucky.


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

You can also try a doggie day care if you don't know a dog walker. 

Miles is 16 months and no way could he make it 9 hrs. My friend has a Golden who is the same age, and he goes for an hour walk in the morning and he's fine. Miles is not there yet and no other Vizsla I know stays in a crate that long, or alone that long in general. I come home every day for lunch, and if it's going to be more than 4 hours a neighbor or friend stops in on Miles. 5 hours was a maximum and that was just because my husband and I both got caught up in work meetings and believe me we came home to a maniac. 4 hours is the maximum we leave him alone and he is out of a crate. If I have a meeting, he goes to dog day care or a friend's house for the day. 

I don't even want to know what he would be like with 9 hrs of solitude...


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## mlwindc (Feb 8, 2013)

In fairness... My v had been in a crate for 8 hours and even once did 10... But that was at night time and he's a solid sleeper! The longest he has been crated during the day is 5 hours. Max. He usually goes 3-4 and has a 2-3 hour play date with other pups in the middle (we have a great doggie walker now who picks him up and meets up with other pups). The long night time crating is one thing and usually it is only for 6-8 hours... He is also 7 months so I am hoping he can sleep outside of his crate but not in our bed sometime soon! I wouldn't do 9 as a matter of course.


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## tknafox2 (Apr 2, 2013)

IM SORRY... 
I only read the very first post from VZrunner and didnt read any other posts
SO VZrunner I think your dog might be able to hold it for 9 hours .... when YOU can hold it for 9 hours... 
why dont you have a contest???
... now i will go back and read the thread, and if I want to remove this thought... OR NOT


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## Darcy1311 (May 27, 2012)

Sorry readers to the forum, and it's only my opinion but if I had to keep Darcy caged up for 9 hours during the day I would have to ask the question.....am I ready to take a dog as a pet ??...sorry if it offends, but I am thinking purely about the dogs welfare, potty training, socialisation etc etc.


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## DixiesMom (Feb 5, 2009)

Wow, I amazed at the venom included with the replies to this post. Shame on you for telling the original poster that they would be abusing their dog or that they should find a new home for it. 

In response to the original question--at 6 months your puppy will have better control of their bladder. 9 hours is a long time but it is something that can be worked up to. 

In a perfect world I agree that there would never be a need for crating in the home or having to go to work without our rusty companions. (which, by the way, allows us to buy food, toys, vet care etc.). We do not live in a perfect world.

Flame away. I love my dogs and I do more for them than I would for most people but I understand that they are animals and not human.


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## SuperV (Oct 18, 2011)

The rule of thumb is 1 hr for every month of age. So at 8 months your pup should be able to hold it 9 hrs - however some will do it sooner and others later.

There are some trigger happy folks here - Several folks are jumping down this person's throat with respect to how long the dog is crated, when all the person asked was when you can expect the pup to hold for 9 hrs, and what suggestions we might have if they couldn't get back to the pup in 5 hrs. The poster has made no indication of the frequency at which the pup will be crated for 9 hrs or the context of why it would be....Its not surprising the the original poster hasn't replied, when he gets attacked like that... 

I realize my philosophy isn't probably shared with everyone here, but you I feel you need to look at the large picture of the dogs routine, not just a particular time interval. Crate time is only part of an equation. Just because a dog isn't in a crate doesn't mean the dog is living the life it deserves. If I posted up here, that my dog gets the full access to my 1.5 acre yard all day and night, I bet everyone would say that's one lucky dog...but what if I only acknowledge the dog when I refill the food bowl and replenish the water? ...

My point, lets not beat someone up, without knowing the whole picture. Maybe this guy runs every morning for 3 hrs and then works birds every night till dark...ok probably not, but still the point remains...

I'll also venture to say that many folks never teach their dog how to be alone - constantly obsessing over them which leads to separation anxiety.

Nate


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

DixiesMom

I don't think anyone will flame away.
We all know how difficult it is to balance the work life and the play life. Those fortunate enough to be able to not crate their V's during the day are fortunate.
My work schedule is 10 hour days, minimum, with a 45 minute commute each way, 4 days a week, sometime 5. Some days it's a 12.5 hour day with the same commute 6 days a week, My wife works also, and at times her schedule mirrored mine. It's a lot more relaxed now. 
We've done a lot of different things to accommodate the dogs and our schedule. I hired the little girl across the street, now grown up, for years to let the dogs out before she got on the bus for school, and when she got off the bus in the afternoon. I've built kennel runs in the basement, etc.
My only point that I was trying to make is that whatever solution a person comes up with, it's an unreasonable expectation to expect any dog, regardless of age, to hold it for 9 hours. It's not fair.
When I had the dogs in the basement they were in 8'x12' enclosures,and most every night I was cleaning up after them,and they were adult males. Some days they made it, somedays not. It was on me though, not them. There was no form of discipline involved. The responsibility was solely on me.
Psychologically these dogs are a lot tougher than many forum members give them credit for. These are tough little dogs, despite their exterior. The persons whom believes they are all "soft" is setting themselves up for a rude awakening someday.
No one should flame you.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

DixiesMom,
I agree we don't have all the facts but sometimes jump on a bandwagon.

The OP did fail to give enough information unfortunately for forum members to respond.

With incomplete information assumptions are made. If I assumed the OP was planning to leave his dog in a crate 9 hours a day, every day, then the person really isn't in a position in life to give these wonderful animals what they need IMO.

Alternatives like some suggested are positive options maybe the OP never considered. 

We do not all come here "smart". Some of us didn't have the blessing of being raised around dogs. 

I hope the OP returns to this thread and give us more information so "maybe" the collective knowledge of this group could help them. 

RBD


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## redrover (Mar 17, 2011)

Thanks for the post, DixiesMom. I'm not going to lie--I've been here a couple of years and was still hesitant to post here about my experiences, based on the replies up-thread. I was expecting all the forum members to break into my house and take my dog!

I work about 6-8 hours a day, usually 5 days a week. Ideally I would like to either have a job where he could come to the office, or work from home. I am lucky enough to occasionally bring him in when I go to work (he'd be here every day with me if they allowed dogs on public transportation!). I currently have roommates, but previously did not have any. Jasper would be crated for that 8 hours. He gets plenty of exercise and stimulation, and is a very healthy dog. He is neither destructive to his crate or himself. He gets to run beforehand, so I think he spends most of the day sleeping! BUT I would caution that you must slowly and carefully build up to this, and it's entirely possible that your dog will not adapt to this as well as mine. Others are correct--these dogs are prone to separation anxiety. As others have said, about an hour for each month of age, but your mileage may vary. Exercise before and after are ideal. If you know your dog won't destroy and eat things like Kongs, give him a Kong for the crate. A "safe" chew--like an antler--is also good. No rawhides, IMO. I would test drive any toy when you're at home before you leave them with it in the crate, so you know they're unlikely to rip it into big pieces and swallow them. Ambient noise, like a TV, is good. This is kind of silly, but I want to make sure there are never scary noises on the TV for my boy--so he watches the Disney Channel! 

When Jasper was about your dog's age, I would come home every 3-4 hours to let him out, do a little cuddle, and a little training. When he was about 6 months I started working shorter days so I could come home at 6 hours. Then seven, then eight. It is important to note that if you see signs of separation anxiety, you need to scale back the time the dog is left alone and start working on that. I didn't start leaving him alone for 8 hours until he was about...10-11 months old, I think? He has no problem holding it that long, but I do have to get him outside immediately after I get home. Some dogs will have accidents if they have to hold it that long, and you should definitely not hold it against them if they do have accidents in the house. That is a long time to go without peeing or pooping. Regularly asking a dog to hold it for an extended period of time does put them at a slightly higher risk for urinary tract infections, etc.

A safe space, where he can't destroy anything or get into anything bad (like cleaning supplies) might be a good idea, or a safe space that connects to an outside dog run. If you can find someone to let him out halfway through the day, that's also great! I had friends let Jasper out on days where I had to work more than 8 hours, or I paid for parking and brought him in to work, and now my roommates let him out with their dogs when they're home. Sometimes you can find a neighbor that's happy to do it, or a family member. You could also hire a professional dog walker to let him out.

And again, filling the rest of his time with you with mental and physical stimulation is important. I do think it's possible to balance the work and home life with a dog. That said, in order to give your dog a fulfilling life, you must then place most/all of your focus on your dog when you're home. I made some major changes to my lifestyle when I got my dog--I don't go out very much anymore, unless he can come with, and I don't go on any vacations if he can't come with. My friends got used to him coming with me everywhere!


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

the OP ? when can I start leaving the pup in the crate for 9 hours - he got great answers on how to avoid this - that was the only fact to reply to - 9 hours in a crate + 8-10 hours of sleep does not leave enough time in the day to train and socialize the pup - I wanted to make it perfectly clear that is not a goal I would set as a priorty - why sugar coat a reply that life in a crate is not the life for V


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

When we were looking for a Vizsla puppy we had every intention to keep him home alone for 8 hours a day. Our breeder was very honest and she told us she didn't think this was feasible for a few years. Other Vizsla owners said the same. We talked about it and we made the modifications needed to our schedules and we are very glad we did because had we not, we would have a very unhappy puppy and we would have a torn up house or anxiety ridden puppy. 

Agree with the above post RE, no need to sugar coat it. If you are lucky enough to have a young Vizsla who can make it 9 hours good for you, but this is not the norm and should not be expected.


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## Darcy1311 (May 27, 2012)

DixiesMom said:


> Wow, I amazed at the venom included with the replies to this post. Shame on you for telling the original poster that they would be abusing their dog or that they should find a new home for it.
> 
> In response to the original question--at 6 months your puppy will have better control of their bladder. 9 hours is a long time but it is something that can be worked up to.
> 
> ...


 I certainly hope you don't think there was any venom in my post/reply....I was merely giving my opinion and never wanted to upset anyone....If I have then I apologise...


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Dix - I am the venomous snake you refer to - no one else - if after 6-9 mo the owner at the very least should have trained the pup to stay in a pup proof room when away for 9 hours - why have a V - at 9 mo unless the crate is very large the pup will not be able to lift his head fully - not being a pup physic how would you know if it needs water - not a perfect world for us but we should all try hard to make the world as good as it can be for a pup - I always post what I ( no one else ) feel is best for the pup - I realize the pup is 13 weeks old - the real answer to the OP - HOW CAN I GET THE PUP OUT OF THE CRATE INSTEAD OF HOW LONG CAN I KEEP IT IN !!!!


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## Denaligirl (Aug 28, 2012)

OP: The responses on this forum can be harsh at times. Do your best to sift through and take the good advice out of it and ignore the rest. I too have learned this lesson. The majority of posters are very nice and give great advice (and post adorable pics!). 

What works for us during the work week is 3 days at doggie day camp and two days in the crate (usually about 7 hours). On the days where she is in the crate, the first order of business after I'm home from work (and of course after she has emptied her bladder) is HER. She gets several uninterrupted hours of play/hike/run time. Her crate is large, and she is left with water and a safe chew toy. It may not be ideal and I always feel guilty and distracted on days where she is in the crate but as others have mentioned, it is not a perfect world and my fiance and I need to work and this is where she is safest while we are not home. I assure you that my V is a very lucky, happy, healthy and spoiled pup and gets more than enough exercise and most importantly, loVe!! 

Find what works for you. Good luck!


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## WireyV (Dec 15, 2012)

I was lucky enough to be off work until my puppy was 7 months old.

I've recently started working full time again (6 weeks ago) and our schedule works like this:

Mondays - spends the day with a friend who works from home at their house
Tuesdays- walk 45 mins AM, then home alone 8am-5pm (sometimes I'll come home at lunch for 30 mins), walk 45 mins PM 
Wednesdays - walk 45 mins AM, then home alone 8am-5pm (friend usually takes her out for an hour at some point), walk 45 mins PM
Thursdays - Doggy Day care, 45 mins walk PM
Fridays - walk 45 mins AM, then home alone 8am-5pm (sometimes I'll come home at lunch for 30 mins), walk 45 mins PM 

I don't crate her anymore as she has proven herself to be toilet trained and with no destructive behaviour, in fact although she has a dog door to get outside, I believe she spends most of the morning lying in the sun room, or sitting on an armchair - 90% of the time she is sitting quietly on the armchair when I get home. I don't think I could justify putting a dog in a crate all day though - but in actuality my dog is pretty unactive when she is home alone anyway - I've tried lining up all her toys and balls at the start of the day to see if she plays with them when I'm gone, and some days she doesnt. She has bones but she goes through them in the first 20 mins I'm gone from the house..

She is a pretty relaxed dog and does sleep most of the day even if I am home. She has crazy time between 5-7pm usually!

Also if she has been home alone during the day, even if i come home and walk and feed her, she is NOT happy if I go out for dinner or something for a few hours! And will bark... so I have had to curtail my after work social life


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## DixiesMom (Feb 5, 2009)

Just for clarification, R E M-I did not call anyone a snake, I described the tone of some replies. (one of which has been removed). We are all entitled to our own opinion. 

I'm sure that all of us on this forum love our dogs and want to do what we feel is best for them. None of us want to be told that we are bad dog parents or that we don't deserve to own a dog. We wouldn't be here if we didn't feel a kinship with the other members.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/reading-room

Added to the _Websites I love_ section of Redbirddog. 

Patricia is a great resource on many dog issues.

Good luck.

RBD


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## OttosMama (Oct 27, 2011)

I agree that responses on the forum are not always tactful and everyone has their own opinion. I would be interested in the specifics as well before assuming the owner is abusive and should not own a dog. Perhaps it is once a week? More info would be helpful and many of the responses have provided solutions - like dog walkers, daycare, etc. 

That being said, I agree that 9 hours is excessive. I know that I can't hold my bladder for 9 hours! How can we expect a small puppy to? In addition to the puppy relieving itself, what about the ability to be a dog? Stretch his legs? Forget the fact that he is high energy... He is a dog. He needs to move more than a quick spin in the crate. I think if this is a multiple day occurrence, day care would be something to think about. But that is just my opinion. Others may disagree. Not only would it be great for the dog to be able to exercise and socialize, the owner would be able to come home to a clean house and a happy, satisfied dog. After working 9 hours, the last thing I'd want to come home to is a messy crate and frantic dog.


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## Vzrunner (Apr 8, 2013)

First at all I want Thank you everyone for your comments. Specially the good ones. I am not sure why some subscribers took my question personal and make an assumption. For anyone who believe I am going to do any harm to my V; please read my post again. I am asking for help and advice. If I wouldn't care about my V I wouldn't posted this. I appreciated all your comments and Thank you again. Now I can see the good options I will take. 

Have everyone a bless day !!


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> I appreciated all your comments and Thank you again. Now I can see the good options I will take.


Vzrunner, That is why most of us log in to HVF. It's about your Hungarian Pointer and it's happiness.

Your happiness can be satisfied by other websites and forums. 8)

Good luck. Use the search box at the upper right corner a lot. TONS of good information and maybe an opinion or two thrown in for entertainment value.

Hungarian Pointers are not dogs. They are lifestyles. Pugs are dogs. :

RBD


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## Vzrunner (Apr 8, 2013)

redrover said:


> Thanks for the post, DixiesMom. I'm not going to lie--I've been here a couple of years and was still hesitant to post here about my experiences, based on the replies up-thread. I was expecting all the forum members to break into my house and take my dog!
> 
> I work about 6-8 hours a day, usually 5 days a week. Ideally I would like to either have a job where he could come to the office, or work from home. I am lucky enough to occasionally bring him in when I go to work (he'd be here every day with me if they allowed dogs on public transportation!). I currently have roommates, but previously did not have any. Jasper would be crated for that 8 hours. He gets plenty of exercise and stimulation, and is a very healthy dog. He is neither destructive to his crate or himself. He gets to run beforehand, so I think he spends most of the day sleeping! BUT I would caution that you must slowly and carefully build up to this, and it's entirely possible that your dog will not adapt to this as well as mine. Others are correct--these dogs are prone to separation anxiety. As others have said, about an hour for each month of age, but your mileage may vary. Exercise before and after are ideal. If you know your dog won't destroy and eat things like Kongs, give him a Kong for the crate. A "safe" chew--like an antler--is also good. No rawhides, IMO. I would test drive any toy when you're at home before you leave them with it in the crate, so you know they're unlikely to rip it into big pieces and swallow them. Ambient noise, like a TV, is good. This is kind of silly, but I want to make sure there are never scary noises on the TV for my boy--so he watches the Disney Channel!
> 
> ...


 Appreciated so much your post. Thank you for taking the time!!


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## redrover (Mar 17, 2011)

Vzrunner said:


> Appreciated so much your post. Thank you for taking the time!!


No problem. As others have been careful to note, not every V is the same. I consider myself insanely lucky that my boy doesn't mind being in a crate 6-8 hours, and that I can usually make it home in the 6 hours, or have roommates or friends to let him out as well if it's going to be more like 7 or 8. But it is possible that your pup, even with a careful build-up, may not take well to this at all. I forgot to post that Jasper's crate is big. Too big, technically speaking, but it was a happy accident that I bought it. That means he can walk around in it a little, even standing up he has enough head room, and there's room for bowls of fresh water or food (I do not usually leave him with food, though--he tends to knock that bowl over when he's rearranging his blankets). If we had a good, safe room for him to be in instead, I'd prefer to do that, but for now the too-big crate works well. Friends have also had good luck with what is actually considered an "outdoor" kennel inside their home, which gives their dog plenty of room to roam and walk around. I've thought about this option as well. Like this one: http://www.petco.com/product/117776/Lucky-Dog-Powder-Coated-Kennel.aspx


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## calum (Feb 13, 2008)

I think this thread has run it's course now - OP has said that the answers were helpful. Thread will be locked as it is starting to wander.

Thanks for all your replies - they were very comprehensive.


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