# Her first kill



## kiminboonton (Nov 22, 2011)

Our Vizsla killed two groundhogs yesterday. She hasn't killed anything up until this point. She usually sits in the back yard and just stares at them as they walk right past her. Or she will slowly stalk them, but they just lumber off as she points. I guess yesterday she had enough and quickly killed two of them. I'm actually fine with this, since they did a number on my garden. However, my concern is that my neighbor has an outdoor cat that visits our yard pretty often. I have taught her from a puppy to lay down and be nice to the cat. Even thought rh cat likes to come over lay on its back and when Tesla gets too close she will smack her face. This makes Tesla not really like this kitty very much, but I thought letting the cat have the upper hand is probably safer. However, she does "worry" when thr cat is in the yard. She always stands between the cat and us when we pet the cat. I make her lay down and she listens, but she clarly does this as an order, but does not like this cat. Yesterday the cat came in the yard and I was concerned that after the groundhog incident she might be a little more agressive with the cat, and she was. She chased it out of the yard. That freaked me out that if she caught up to the cat she could kill it very easily with a shake. How can we train her to know that this cat is OFF LIMITS? I would just be horrified if she did something to the cat, not to mention that her owner is not the nicest of people.


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

I love cats (I have two), but I would say this is more of your neighbor's problem. If his cat is going into your yard, I don't think you can be held responsible; isn't this kind of the risk you take in letting your cat be an "outside" cat?

Also, cats a pretty fiesty, I don't think your dog could kill a cat as easily as a groundhog, and eventually I am guessing the kitty may learn not to come in your yard if he keeps getting chased!


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## kiminboonton (Nov 22, 2011)

I hope thats the case, that the cat will teach her a few more lessons so she stays away. I really wanted them to be friends, but that is clearly not the case, especialyl after yesterday. She's all pumped!


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## SteelCityDozer (Aug 25, 2011)

Our neighbors cats frequent our yard including within the fence. I too like cats but when they're in my yard leaving poop and dead birds, both of which Dozer loves, they're fair game. I let Doz chase them and I can assure you they can jump a 6 foot fence or they'll run up a tree or something. I wouldn't worry much about it.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

SteelCityDozer said:


> Our neighbors cats frequent our yard including within the fence. I too like cats but when they're in my yard leaving poop and dead birds, both of which Dozer loves, they're fair game. I let Doz chase them and I can assure you they can jump a 6 foot fence or they'll run up a tree or something. I wouldn't worry much about it.


Ditto


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

just had to do a google images search for groundhogs....strangle looking things aren't they, (we haven't got them in UK)


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Hi kiminbooton,

I have heard of cats that have been killed by dogs, but in my life I have witnessed cats leaping over fences and becoming quite feisty themselves. 

If it were me, I would let your neighbor know. Now, depending on your relationship with your neighbor, this could go poorly, but if it were _my_ cat, I would want to know if it were potentially in danger and I wouldn't allow it to go in the yard (or at least I'd know the risks). I'd just tell them just what you told us that in the past she has always been gentle with the cat and you've taught her to lie down and be submissive, _however_ she killed the groundhogs the other day and you have noticed she is being a bit more aggressive towards the cat.

I would suggest looking up the laws in your area and seeing what could happen if this did happen. Would your baby girl be labeled vicious and be in danger? Would there be no case as dogs are allowed to protect their yard? 

I googled the topic and a yahoo question came up in a situation where the dog did kill the cat and the neighbor wanted to sue for damages. It is interesting. 

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100621132023AAAYdpv

Unfortunately, I am not sure how to really tame a hunting instinct, but I am certain there are ways if you needed to do so. It may just be a matter of reinforcing the laying down and punishing the chasing, it depends on how strong the prey drive is.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

kiminboontoon

We have a cat, indoors only, and Gunnr will mess with him , the two of them seem to have evolved their own game, but that's it. Tike is scared to death of the cat. Outside is a totally different story. She flat out goes after anything that is moving in her yard. She hasn't caught one of the neighbors cats yet, and I hope she never does, but both neighbors have been informed exactly of what can happen.
My first Vizsla, Boone, ran a cat down from about 50 yards away. He caught it, and on a dead run got his nose under it, flipped it in the air and before it hit the ground again he was on top of it and had it pinned. All he did was lick that poor cats head so I was relieved.
My second Vizsla, Silkcut, unfortunately did not just lick the cat's head. I was only 30 or 40 yards away and it was over before I could get to him. He hit that cat like a hammer with his shoulder and rolled over it. He too had the cat before it could right itself and killed it. Unbelieveably fast. 
At that time I also had a second Vizsla, Rush, and he was actually the more aggressive of the two. They were, uhmmmm,,,, hard on small animals together. Extremely efficient as a team.
Many time I have stated here too not mistake these dogs for the cuddly little couch potatoe, face lickers, they appear to be. They are exceptionally agile and fast, and believe me they instinctively know how to " dispatch game".
I would definitely not assume that she will hold back with the neighbors cat in her yard.


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

Yes, kiminboonton, as you now know, you can't assume the neighbor's cat will be safe. 

My boy Willie is, frankly, a coldblooded killer. If he catches it, it is quickly dead. He sees cats like any other prey animal. Maybe he thinks they are just odd-looking squirrels. Frankly, I don't believe you can train the hunting instinct out of a Vizsla. It's in their blood. That would be like trying to teach a bird not to sing.

The only truly successful cases I've heard of involve a puppy and a kitten being raised together from infancy. THEN they are lifelong friends!  I don't know though. I just know that in Willie's case, I could never trust him around cats.


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## kiminboonton (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks for the replies, sounds like it would be possible. Hopefully this cat can show her who's boss and she will leave her alone. The groundhog didn't have a chance, in seconds it was over, a shake and a toss. That was it, and these ground hogs are big, probably weighed over 25 lbs. 
I am a bit nervous about telling my neighbor, she is not a very good neighbor, but I agree it will be her responsibility if I give her the disclaimer. 
The thing is I am not even a cat person, but I really like this cat. I want them to get along!


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

I worry about the dog more than the cat... cats have nails. 

We live with cat... Sam only chases because he wants to clean Butterfly's bum... after all, them cat poop is tasty. The way he thinks, no use killing the cat... 
He never eats any other poop (horse, cow, chicken, duck, geese) except the cat's


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

I once saw a dog throwing a cat in the air, catching it, throwing it up in the air again... The poor thing was meowing so loud, and I couldn't do anything about it. Pretty frightening and not a pleasant sight  

On the other hand, now I know what my neighbors are thinking of my cat MuMu  Will have to warn her!


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

It was not a V, I'm sure... V's are peaceful with indoors inhabitants , for the most part... I keep fish and one of them jumped out of the tank... Sam's saliva kept him alive unit I arrived on the scene.


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## Suliko (Sep 17, 2011)

You are right, *datacan*, it wasn't a V.


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

My Vizsla has been starting to make a habit out of chasing our cats. Well, one day I walked into the living room and found him huddled in the corner, shaking. My female cat had him cornered there and was starting him down, holding him "hostage"! Needless to say, he has learned to leave her alone. He will even step aside when she passes him in the hallway


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## lilyloo (Jun 20, 2012)

Eek.... reading some of these cat / dog stories is making my eyes widen. 

I can only hope that when we get our v puppy she gets along with our cats. 

To the op, I agree with what others have said. You need to let your neighbor know.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

datacan said:


> I worry about the dog more than the cat... cats have nails.


 The majority of the time I'll agree with you, but it really comes down to the individual dog.
Dogs that are willing bust through 2" bull briars after a wounded bird, take on geese, and live pheasants, foxes, etc are not going to be deterred by a cat. 
They will not go straight in at the cat. They come in from the side, lower their shoulder, and turn their head at the last moment and just pile drive the cat into the ground, they will then roll over it, get up, spin, and hit it again from the other side in a figure eight pattern and keep doing it until it's down. then collapse on top of the cat. it literally only last a few seconds. If the cat is running they will knock it off it's feet with their front legs and start the figure 8. They will also do the same thing to another dog. Of the five V's I've owned, three did it exactly the same way, and Gunnr is starting to now. 
I do not believe that a normal domestic cat is a match for a prey driven Vizsla in the open. It truly is impressive just how fast they are.


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## Darcy1311 (May 27, 2012)

I have just sown a load of flower seeds in our garden a the neighbours cats keep digging them up and pooing all over the place....has anyone smelt cat poo, its disgusting...Darcy my 15month old Vizsla has trouble fighting sleep....things have gotta change ....


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

Lilyloo, we have three cats in our home along with Oso and have a very peaceful household. I think it's a bit different if they live with the cats. He pointed at them at first all the time, but we just taught him cats have hierarchy. He's not allowed on the furniture, that's the cat's spot and we put up a baby gate to a room where only the cats can go. At this point, we could probably take down the baby gate.

I know all dogs are different, but I do think living inside a home presents a lot more training opportunity than if not. You know all day long for months, Oso was learning how to appropriately interact with the cats. Interestingly enough, even when on walks, Oso will want to go after butterflies, squirrels, lizards, etc. but never cats.

They aren't best friends, but Oso loves them. He brings them toys, wants to lick them and has cried when they leave the room before. I think if the cats were kittens when we got him, they would have been buddies, but as it stands, the cats only tolerate him.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

If the pup was raised with the cat then they will most likely get along. If not prey drive takes over. These are hunting dogs that will hunt small furry animals. Mine will point, stalk and with some luck catch a animal that comes into their yard. I would rather they not kill a neighbors cat. If that neighbor keeps it out of my fenced yard, they won't. On walks they listen to me and look but not chase. On their own in the yard the cat better be fast.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

I'm not very fond of cats. Selfish bloody animals in my books. I say let the V do what it does!!  


Ducks and runs for cover from all the pussy lovers!


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Oz - your not saying use a cat as a bumper drill ?


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

I would never even think such a thought REM. After all, My V might get his nose scratched.....


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

I'd like to add a quick post in defense of Willie Boy, since my earlier description of him might make him seem "vicious".

While he is, indeed, an efficient hunter (and killer), I have never known a dog who was any more gentle, loyal, playful and loving than Willie is. He is a fabulous dog around people... any people! He is a very good boy! ;D


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I'm not a cat lover but I don't hate them either. I'm more of a take care of your own animal person, and don't let it be a nuisance to the neighborhood.


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

Gunnr said:


> datacan said:
> 
> 
> > I worry about the dog more than the cat... cats have nails.
> ...


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

We *had* mice in the basement. 
Farmland all around was sold to developers who decided subdivisions are the way to go. The animals had to go somewhere... Now we have Geese crossing highways (town solved this by putting up signs "watch for geese" ???), raccoons, skunks all looking for new homes. They will get killed one by one but it takes time...

Used to be impartial to cats, now I just love them... they are efficient hunters - no need to train them either  

Have to add.. out cat is not allowed to stray off the to the neighbors..


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

People train without ecollars. I use them but I know it can be done without them. Most of the fields close to my house have roads with heavy traffic. I collar condition them so they can be off lead. The last thing I would ever want is one of my dogs to be hit by a car.

P is a hunter and you never want her to lose that drive.
My dogs are probably older than P and have matured some.
They have all the drive they had as pups, maybe more.
They just had to learn the rules of hunting so we don't come up empty handed. The rules for hunting come in handy when you come across something you don't want them to hunt. Provided you see it in time to call them off.
My two females were sprayed by a skunk last year. I knew they caught scent of something in the tall grass, but didn't call them off quick enough. When I called Here Lucy grabbed the skunk by the tail in an effort to bring it with her. As soon as I saw what she had the command change to Leave It. Now I had two stinky dogs that I didn't want to come in to me.


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

Ozkar said:


> I'm not very fond of cats. Selfish bloody animals in my books. I say let the V do what it does!!
> 
> 
> Ducks and runs for cover from all the pussy lovers!


Oz at the risk of further upsetting our cat lovers my line is this:

I love cats, they make great toys for dogs! 

Honestly though have taught Mac to leave it when it comes to cats. Would never want an injury on either side to happen.


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## kiminboonton (Nov 22, 2011)

The cat was in our backyard this morning. I was back there with Tesla. She did well, but she follows it where ever it goes. If the cat lays down and then walks away, Tesla has to inspect the area. She did have a bone out there, and that makde me tense, but she just stood near it and just looked at me and the cat, like " I can't beleive this gross thing is allowed in our yard" 
Hopefully she keeps her head on and keeps to the no kill cat rules I've tried to teach her sicne she was a puppy. Yes, sicne a puppy I have been trying to have them be friends. Its tolerance, thats as far as I got with her and the cat. 
Lets hope the cat doesn't run. Gunnr's description was a very detailed account I don't want to see happen.


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## jld640 (Sep 29, 2010)

She will be looking for what my neighbor refers to as 'kitty roca' soon.


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