# Getting Worried



## Jazzdog

Was wondering if anybody has any advice for me on this. Our 14 month old male, Cooper, has been pretty sick since Jan. 5th. Started out with little to no appetite and little energy. Progressed to almost constant shivering, restlessness, lethargy, possible depression, and odd behavior (such as sleeping in places he never has before, and lying down in the middle of the yard, growled at my wife).

This started on a Saturday, we took him to the vet a couple days later and was told he simply had the flu or a cold. He took blood work, and everything looked fine, maybe a tad high on the white blood cells, but otherwise fine. Was prescribed some low grade antibiotics. A few days later, Coop, if anything, had gotten worse. So we took him back to the vet, and again was told it's just a cold. We asked about Lyme disease and the vet basically discounted this because in his opinion Cooper wasn't at the "lame" stage. We don't really feel that this vet is taking our worries and questions seriously, but that's another issue.

So we took Coop to the Vet ER this last Saturday. Again, blood work and the whole thing. Everything checks out, no Lyme Disease, but they did find blood in his urine, and prescribed a stronger antibiotic for a UTI (why did our main vet not even check for this?). So he's now on Clavamox for the UTI, Fortiflora to aid in food digestion, Rimadyl for anti-inflamation, and Doxycyline for something else.

Coop is still barely eating, having lost close to 6 lbs. All of his symptons still persist. And he's still way "off". He will often stand in the pose below, with his front legs down and his rump in the air. Not sure if this is because of some sort of discomfort or not.

Has anybody seen this before? Should we see yet another vet (the vet bills are really starting to stack up)? Is this typical of a UTI? Everything we read says the antibiotics should produce a pretty quick turn for the better. Sorry for the long post but we're getting pretty worried.


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## texasred

Most Vs do that stance in the playful mode. Your Cooper has his head down like he is trying to get in a position that is less painful for him.
Im not a fan of ER clinics that aren't part of a bigger vet practice, and No what your describing is not typical symptoms of a routine UTI.

Common UTI the dog drinks and urinates more. It may have accidents in the house. and thats no what you are seeing.
Her is some reading material on kidneys. Im not a vet and in no way saying this is what you dog is experiencing.
http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/kidney-failure-in-dogs

I would be looking for a vet that has the latest technology including a MRI on site.


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## Jazzdog

Thanks TexasRed. He's definitely not playing in this stance, just seems to be trying to get comfortable. He is drinking more, but hasn't had any accidents in the house to our knowledge, and really doesn't want to go outside to urinate at all. When he does go out, though, he pee's a river.

We're seeing a new vet tonight and will discuss possible kidney issues.


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## Vida

Just off the bat...
it looks like he's trying to escape pain.
Has he been checked for obstruction. 
Or kidney/ gall stones?
Poor dog,I wish you the best of luck sorting this out.


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## dmak

I'm by no means an expert, bit I am with Vida. It sounds like a gastrointestinal blockage or obstruction. Like TR said, find a better vet


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## WillowyndRanch

any Vet that tells me the dog has a cold or the flu I don't think graduated high in their class...

Definitely find another Vet, I would reccommend an abdominal ultrasound be done for an obstruction or partial obstruction as well and don't delay getting that done. Obstructions are time bombs. How is his fecal?

Ken


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## luv2laugh

Hi Jazzdog, I'm worried about coop too!! I feel so bad for the little boy and wish I could help. 

I did research too and have no idea what's wrong with your boy. Good luck with the new vet tonight!! I'm hoping Coop feels better soon!


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## Jazzdog

Thanks everyone for your well wishes. My wife phoned a little while ago to tell me Coop has blood in his diarrhea, so things are not getting better. We have an appointment tonight with a new vet.

Ken, I agree that our (now previous) vet was not thinking with Coops' best interest in mind. The vet we are seeing tonight comes highly recommended, so we'll see.


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## texasred

If it were me I would show up early to the vet appointment, as in right now. With the signs he is showing they will probably see him early.


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## threefsh

Use an internet tool such as Yelp to find the BEST vet in your area and take your dog in immediately. Obstructions are extremely dangerous and will cause more damage the longer they are in place. Have the vet do an ultrasound and x-ray.


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## Ozkar

This might be a long shot, but I have had a dog with similiar symptoms as this. Solitary Man was one of the last Spaniels I had. I had to put him down 4 years ago as he developed a heart condition. (Dilated cardio myopathy-same thing as killed his mum who I also had) Anyway, when he was 4, he chewed up some irrigation pipes.Pert of which was a ball valve. Not the whole valve, but rather the sleeved outer which turns to cut the water off. Let me tell you, the valves work great in either irrigation pipes, or Spaniels tummies. The valve would rotate, allow food and water in and pup was fine. A day later, it would turn and no food or water would get through. Then it would turn again and allow food through. 

We chased this intermittent issue for a week before he eventually got really sick and ended up with peritinitus. We saved him and he lived till 10. But it cost $6k to save him. 

Get an X-ray and make sure there are no obstructions. 

Best wishes and I hope Coop returns to normal fast. I know how stressed and worried you must be,


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## SkyyMax

Sending good wishes - hope Cooper is feeling better this morning.


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## ZDOGSMOM

Sending positive energy for Cooper to be restored to perfect health. Keep us informed, I am sure we all have you in our thoughts.


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## harrigab

I hope you get some positive answers from the new vet Jazzdog, get well soon Cooper.


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## Alex_Mojo

As far as i know animals take this position when their stomach or intestines hurt, I had a similar problem with one of my cats (blood in the fecal matter, this position) the white cells were a bit high rest were ok, we had a... ummm dunno how its called in English, the one with the gel to see the organs, she had a bad intestine infection and almost an ulcer, she was on treatment for 2 weeks and now she's good. Btw does cooper vomits? 
Hope everything will be ok, fingers crossed.

PS. Does he seeks cold places to rest his belly and/or anus on? Tasha (the cat) did that


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## Mileysmom

Hope Cooper is well and responding to the treatment.

Miley had been ill in last fall with very similar symptoms..it has laste dmore than two months.

First she was vomiting then the bloody diarrhea started and at some point she was so weak couldn't even stand up.

She was doing unusual moves, and postures as Cooper - not the same tough - She got AB-s several courses when finally the whole thing cleared up. The next thing would have been surgery to figure out what is the cause of the infection.

I feel for you and Cooper and hope she recovers soon.


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## Jazzdog

Thank you everyone for your advice and well wishes. We took Coop to yet a 3rd vet, re-did the tests and took full xrays. No blockages or anything were found. Was advised to keep an eye on him for a day or two before seeking specific tests for things such as Lupus. He has started eating (chicken and rice to help with his diarehha) and has a little more pep, though is still far from his normal self (I'm surprised at how much I miss rushing home to get Coop a good run before it gets dark). 

We're still hopeful this is just a real bad case of UTI (don't think Coop is, though ). Hopefully this will be my last post to this thread. Thanks again everybody.

Ben


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## harrigab

Jazzdog said:


> Thank you everyone for your advice and well wishes. We took Coop to yet a 3rd vet, re-did the tests and took full xrays. No blockages or anything were found. Was advised to keep an eye on him for a day or two before seeking specific tests for things such as Lupus. He has started eating (chicken and rice to help with his diarehha) and has a little more pep, though is still far from his normal self (I'm surprised at how much I miss rushing home to get Coop a good run before it gets dark).
> 
> We're still hopeful this is just a real bad case of UTI (don't think Coop is, though ). _* Hopefully this will be my last post to this thread.*_ Thanks again everybody.
> 
> Ben


hopefully not Ben!! we want you to post again with the news that Cooper has made a full recovery!


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## dmak

Glad to hear no blockages were found. Those are expensive and deadly. That's my biggest fear with my pup. Please let us know when Coop is fully recovered


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## luv2laugh

I'm going to agree with harrigab. Please post once Coop is back to his normal self!! 

I'm glad it's not a blockage and also glad to hear that he's started eating more!


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## SkyyMax

I am glad Cooper is on a road to recovery!
Hope he will get better very soon!


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## Jazzdog

Well, after a brief improvement, Cooper's symptoms have gotten worse. We had an ultrasound today and was found that he has an intussusception, which is basically a folding of the intestines. He needs immediate surgery to remove the affected area, which looks to be in his lower, small intestines. If it's close to his colon the outlook doesn't sound good. We are crushed.

We're also very upset this wasn't found earlier. Especially by our first vet, who insisted it was just a cold (both times we took Coop there). The lesson learned, I guess, is to not take "no" for an answer when you know something doesn't feel right with your dog. Always seek 2nd and 3rd opinions. Poor Coop has been suffering for almost 3 weeks now, and might not make it through the next day or two, and it could have been caught pretty early. Not to mention the total expenses we are trying to deal with.

I'm not a very religious person, but any shout outs to the Big Guy pulling for Coop would be appreciated.

Ben


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## texasred

Sending prayers Coopers way.


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## WillowyndRanch

All the very best thoughts coming to you and Coop from us! 
Ken


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## Emily1970

My heart and prayers go out to you from me and our crew!


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## redrover

Sending all the best doggie thoughts to you and Coop. 
Abby & Jasper


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## VictoriaW

Ben,

I might be the forum expert on intussusception, having spent a couple of miserable weeks at home followed by 3 nights in a Boston hospital in October because of one (they are vanishingly rare in adult humans but lucky me). 

My case resolved without surgery, but the surgical procedure has an excellent chance of being reasonably straight forward. A quick Google on dogs also suggests good recovery rates.

Two big concerns: (1) when the intestine telescopes, it can twist and cut off blood supply...it doesn't sound like this has happened with Cooper, but would explain the rush; (2) intussusception is sometimes causes by a "leading point" aka tumor, in which case it could be indicative of a bigger problem.

I'm not sure why placement closer to the colon would make prognosis so grim??

Lots of prayers for Coop. Please keep us all posted. 

Victoria


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## RubyRoo

Sending prayers from down here in Florida


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## threefsh

Cooper is in our prayers and Riley + my Cooper send licks and roo roos for a speedy recovery!


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## Must dash

Thinking of you and sending positive vibes from the UK.


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## SkyyMax

Sending prayers your way-


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## harrigab

Hopes and prayers and all best wishes sent from here, get well soon Coops


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## Mileysmom

Miley and Me sending big hugs to Cooper.


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## adrino

Sending good positive thoughts your way!


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## Ozkar

VictoriaW said:


> Ben,
> 
> I might be the forum expert on intussusception, having spent a couple of miserable weeks at home followed by 3 nights in a Boston hospital in October because of one (they are vanishingly rare in adult humans but lucky me).
> 
> My case resolved without surgery, but the surgical procedure has an excellent chance of being reasonably straight forward. A quick Google on dogs also suggests good recovery rates.
> 
> Two big concerns: (1) when the intestine telescopes, it can twist and cut off blood supply...it doesn't sound like this has happened with Cooper, but would explain the rush; (2) intussusception is sometimes causes by a "leading point" aka tumor, in which case it could be indicative of a bigger problem.
> 
> I'm not sure why placement closer to the colon would make prognosis so grim??
> 
> Lots of prayers for Coop. Please keep us all posted.
> 
> Victoria


I hope cooper is improving and the area needing surgery is in an easily accessible and non threatening section. As with VW, I also have unfortunately been the beneficiary of this problem. It happened to my daughter when she was 5 months old. She is now 25, but she nearly didn't make it. Some concerns are things like peretinitis. However, the point being, and intersusception can be treated easily in most cases. We all have our fingers and claws crossed that Cooper makes a full and speedy recovery. Ozkar, Astro and Zsa Zsa send a big warm and healing Roo Roo Roo to you and Cooper.

It's been a while since we heard from you, so please let us know how he is when you are able.


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## flynnandlunasmom

Sending positive thoughts to Cooper. I'm so glad you persisted and were able to find out what was wrong.


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## Suliko

Our thoughts and prayers are with you...(and fingers & paws crossed). Hang in there, Cooper!


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## ZDOGSMOM

sending most benevolent prayer for Coop and all those providing medical care that a positive outcome for a full recovery and perfect health prevails!


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## born36

Hope this all turns out positive. Thinking of you and Coop.


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## smurfette

Keeping Cooper and the family close in our prayers! Hope the road to recovery is a fast and happy one!


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## Jazzdog

Thanks everyone for your well wishes and good thoughts. Cooper's surgery went pretty well. His lower intestine had "telescoped" down into his bowel, but no damage to the bowel was discovered. The doctor couldn't find what caused the problem, no foreign objects or parasites, so might have been just one of those things.

So currently he's spending a couple days in the ER recovering. All of the doc's and nurses love him, saying he's so sweet and tries his best to greet everyone the best he can. So once again, thanks everybody.


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## texasred

That's great news.
I bet he will be home in no time.


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## VictoriaW

YAYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!

Here's to a swift & smooth recovery--


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## luv2laugh

Oh Ben, you must be so relieved. I'm so glad to hear that it went well!


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## Ozkar

Go you good thing Cooper.


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## jld640

Great news! Thanks for letting us know.


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## hotmischief

I am so pleased that things are looking up for you and Coop. Hope you will soon have your buddy home with you and he will make a quick and full recivery.


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## harrigab

;D ;D ;D


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## ZDOGSMOM

Thanks for bringing us all up to date on Cooper's surgery and progress .... We will continue to send positive thoughts, energy and healing for Cooper and peace of mind for your family.

Picture a completely healed, healthy beautiful Cooper in your mind's eye and don't let go of that vision!


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## threefsh

Woohoo! I'm so glad to hear Cooper pulled through & is recovering. Please don't be a stranger - we'd love to hear more about your Vizsla!


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## lyra

That's fantastic )


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## BaxtersMum

Hi

Only just read this and must have been awful for all of you as well as Cooper. Well done for being so determined to seek other opinions and stick up for your boy! 

Please let us know when he is home and fully recovered. Look forward to seeing another pic in an upright stance! 

Best wishes


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## RubyRoo

So happy to hear Coop is doing better.


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## SkyyMax

Wonderful news!
Wishing Cooper a full recovery!


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## born36

He'll running circles around you very soon!


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## Coya

Just came upon this. What a rough road you guys and Cooper have been down! How is he doing?


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## Rudy

GREAT NEWS
Mate ;D


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## TAIsMom

I'm so glad to hear that Cooper is on the mend! Thoughts and prayers are with you!


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## cooperman

Oh dear Cooper has really been having tough times. My Cooper not doing too great either but our well wishes are with you also.


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## Jazzdog

Thanks everyone for your well wishes. Coop is back and better then ever. Maybe still a little underweight, but his energy level is definitely back to normal 

Tough little buggers, aren't they?


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## smurfette

Great news about Coop!! Hope he recovers fully and keep you busy for the years to come


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## Jazzdog

So after a couple weeks (since the surgery) most of Coop's symptoms returned. Took him to the vet on Monday for more tests and an ultrasound.

The specialist noticed that there was thickening of two of his layers in his intestine (there are 4 layers) pretty much the whole length of his intestine. This usually indicates Inflammatory Bowel Disease, but there are several forms of this and the best way to determine which one is to do an endoscopy and take biopsies. Worse case scenario which is very unlikely it could be lymphoma in the intestine, but he is so young that is far fetched. 

If we choose not to do the endoscopy, she can start treatment and hope that it works. They would probably start him on a special diet, a hypoallergenic diet b/c sometimes food allergies can cause this disease. Other treatment options are to give him steroids b/c this is an autoimmune disease where our own body attacks our tissues. 

Anybody seen this before?


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## Rudy

Inner core body inflammation is number 1 to pre aging, lost health and 100 other disease Fact. 

all living things 

Reducing them is great choices and never processed $hit 
and they can stop and far worse in months the gut, liver and more core cell level the keys to health and choices

need me to list them I will

they work they save they add

if the gut stays strong you may beat most that comes

I have many times few seem interested there are over 10 that help right now 

gut core level support is a must not a need.

mates even more


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## Jazzdog

Thanks Rudy (and I'm also happy to read that your best bud is doing better, too).

I guess my biggest issue with this diagnosis is that Coop has had no diarrhea or vomiting issues, which seems to be the main symptom of IBD.

We are looking into diet changes before we resort to the endoscopy. Unfortunately, between the operation and all of the ongoing issues, money has become an issue, so we are looking into a more holistic approach.

Thanks again,

Ben


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## adrino

Jazzdog sorry to hear about Coop's regress. It must be tough since you're still not 100% sure what's going on.
I guess for now you can put him on a hypoallergenic diet which could still help him since he doesn't have to digest too many ingredients. 
If you're not sure about the diagnosis you can always have a second opinion. Relying on just one vet sometimes just doesn't work out. 
I hope things work out well for Coop! Sending good thoughts to your way.


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## Jazzdog

Well, unfortunately, this thread refuses to die. After numerous tests, and many ups and downs, our Vet thinks Coop has Lupus. We take the deciding test next Monday (he has some drugs in his system that would mask the test). At this point (and months of uncertainty and thousands of dollars) I'm actually relieved to (hopefully) have an answer as to what has brought such an awesome dog to his knees.

I literally just got the news so haven't had a chance to research Lupus yet, but anybody here had experience with this?


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## tknafox2

dear Jazz,
I feel your pain with every fiber... 
even with the answer, there is no consolation until God speaks. 
I will beg him also for his mercy.


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## einspänner

Hey Jazzdog, sorry to hear the latest news about Cooper. I'm sure you've had time to research lupus by now, but I just did some reading myself. Seems like it has a strong genetic component. Have you contacted your breeder?
I'll be praying for you and your boy.


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## VictoriaW

Hi Jazzdog!

I wrote yesterday but must not have clicked "post". I suggest you drop a PM to FlynnandLunasMom. I don't think she has dealt with a lupus diagnosis specifically, but she has definitely been down the autoimmune disease path with Flynn & might have useful info. Flynn is now doing much better!

My mom has lived with lupus for over 40 years. It is a disease that you'd avoid if you could, but KNOWING is a huge milestone as symptoms (at least in people) can often be managed very well with immunosuppressants. In people this typically means prednisone. The disease, once beaten back, can go into remission for long periods of time between flare ups. I would look at diet & any other natural recommendations as a complement to traditional treatment.

Hugs to Cooper & keep us posted.


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## smurfette

Thinking of you and Cooper!! :-\


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## Rudy

NO SWELLING NO ROIDS ANOTHER BIGGER MISTAKE MASK THE PROBLEMS INSTEAD OF BEATS EM DOWN

AND YOU CAN BE BLESSED WITH LONG REMISSIONS IN A CONTROLLED DIET AND LIFESTYLE CHOICES
WE CAN HELP THIS JUST ASK


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## VictoriaW

Okay, Rudy! Tell my mom what to do to get off steroids. I am all ears!!!


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## KB87

Jazzdog, I'm sorry to hear about Coop! No one ever wants to have to go down any of these paths with their babies, but it's a good thing you're there for him!

Although I don't know much about lupus/autoimmune issues with dogs, I'm quite aware and familiar with people as autoimmune issues runs rampant in our family quite severely. The good news is that all of it is manageable and with knowing comes options. I'm sure, as with people, that there are treatment options to minimize the symptoms and to increase energy levels impacted by these issues. Once you go down the path of testing (should it be confirmed that it is lupus) you will not only have comfort in knowing, but also have comfort in your options. There are specialists out there to help create plans that meet your wants and needs as every case is different.

We're crossing our fingers for you for Monday


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## Rudy

Will you open your ears and mind"?

masking not treating diseases make them stronger and a dirty little secret to press drugs all with great risks and side effects

I just spoke on this" 

standing room only ;D

I like the Raven beauty in the back the best" ;D

Lupus is a condition that attacks healthy cells and tissues when only the immune system is (comprised from within)

It can do this and fast , rash, kidneys, arthritis, photosensitivity, brain and central nervous systems heart even lung problems to name a few

enviorment, hormones, heredity trigger lupus as well as viral infections, breast implants, mercury in teeth, hair dye, diet and food choices and lack of real exercise.

Now we flex me some

willow bark and bardock will ease muscle and joints impacts week 1

limit certain foods

reduce all fatty foods no milk no cow ever 

omega 3 rich fatty acids daily at least 2,000 mgs

cats claw, black walnut herbs''

flax seed cold pressed only

decrease all inflammation week 2

collodial silver 

antibacterial antifungal

acupuncture daily face, hands, chest

stress management

Roids F it up

and add other disease and they know it

send cash please" ;D

Had it Beat it month 1

facts

at least I share

nature is the cures

Probiotics as well as digestive enzymes with great foods a must as well


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## Rudy

This is lupus

I traveled almost 3 states to safe him Roids had him sick and blown up

my ladies son

and was dying now thriving 

I left day 4

all western meds WTF??

Victory and remissions month 4

real life

His words back

BigPappapump

saved me you morons

lol

I liked this

look at his face

ROIDS


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## datacan

Roids = witchcraft


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## Jazzdog

Thanks everyone once again for your well wishes.

We did contact the breeder and she was very supportive (even offering a free pup should things not turn out).

We started on Prednisone yesterday. Though Rudy, I did look into everything you said and it makes a lot of sense. We will be altering Coop's diet in conjunction with the meds.

Thanks everyone,

Ben


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## texasred

As with any medicine you have to decide for yourself, does the good out way the bad.
I like holistic medicines to a point, but sometimes they need more than it can provide. If a combination is available and one does not counteract in a bad way with the other, I'm always game.

I agree that steroids can be over used, and if used that way they can have long term side effects. They should not be a go to drug, but they do have their place for short term use.

Jazzdog 
Hoping you find the right combination to get Coop on the road to recovery.


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