# Vizsla owners conservative?



## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Just throwing this out for discussion.

Are Vizsla owners more conservative or liberal in there thinking?

Without getting political, but just by the basics of the two words I would venture to suggest conservative.

Wanting to mantain a certain standard that goes back over a 150 years in their dogs. Does that reflect other areas the owners respect for traditions such as hunting? 

Thoughts?

RBD


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I'm a conservative in everyway.
Just ask my teenage daughter. :


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

My vote.

Males and Married Females - Conservative. We own Vs because of their ability and history as a smart family dogs whose roots are as a working/hunting dogs.

Single Females - Liberals. They own Vs because they are cute.

Now. If you take away the fact they are cute and great with kids, ALL the owners would be NRA carrying right wingers! ;D


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

Most V owners I've met seem to lean more toward the conservative side. I think it would be difficult to own a *hunting* dog and be a liberal. Almost all the liberals I know are vegetarian or vegan.

Riley swam after a bird in the bay today for the first time! I was proud and cheered her on... thankfully there were no park rangers around. :


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## laurita (Jun 12, 2011)

Linescreamer said:


> Males and Married Females - Conservative. We own Vs because of their ability and history as a smart family dogs whose roots are as a working/hunting dogs.
> 
> Single Females - Liberals. They own Vs because they are cute.


Ha, linescreamer! True, true. I'm a single, liberal-ish female. I'm not a big fan of guns, but in all honesty, having such an incredible hunting dog has opened my mind to the possibility. I would love to train my V to hunt; I just don't know that I can do the killing myself.


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## Aimless1 (Sep 25, 2011)

What an extremely odd question RBD, and one that most Americans won't be able to answer other than politically. The red/blue state sterotypes have redefined what it means to be either liberal or conservative, but both definitiions would not be correct.

I am the direct beneficiary of a liberal Western education ... just a 99% of Americans/Canadians are. I'm not positive, but I believe most of Europe and Australia also enjoy a liberal Western education. It is that liberal way of thinking that created the propertity that I currently enjoy. I guess that makes me a liberal gun toting American.  

I'm happy to report that I'm also a liberal thinker. Mind you, being a liberal thinker makes me neither conservative nor liberal otherwise.


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## Lincolns Parents (Aug 6, 2011)

We are conservative....our house is protected by a V and Smith & Wesson! Lol 8)


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

Dana Perino, Bush's former press secretary, has a 14 y/o Vizsla named Henry  She showed a pic of him the other day on TV. We are conservative as well.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> Mind you, being a liberal thinker makes me neither conservative nor liberal otherwise.


A1,

How about what is called these days "progressive". This wasn't so much a political statement as a lifestyle statement. Some want to modify and mold things "new and better." This is an age old discussion. 

Just seems to me for the *Vizsla* breed, to stay strong, owners need to be conservative. At least in this area. We don't need a *"new and improved"* Vizsla IMO. The historical robust Vizsla will do just fine in my conservative view.

And if you want to hunt your dog in a traditional way, but can't "take the game" and use it for someones food, then ???? Don't mean to offend those that are having a hard time with this choice. 

Just a discussion about a dog.

Happy trails and trials.

RBD


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## redrover (Mar 17, 2011)

Oh, I don't know. I think I'm a strong mix of both conservative and progressive/liberal, at least as far as my own personal lifestyle goes. If you're talking politics, I am pretty liberal, actually. But I didn't get a Vizsla just because it was cute. ;D

Some things can be new and improved and be better. I like my mom's fancy new vacuum a lot more than my old one. It does a much better job in tight spaces. But as easy as a mop can be, I like to get down on my hands and knees and actually scrub the floor, personally. Those are silly, superficial things, but I try to take most of life on a case-by-case basis. But I'm not someone who's progressive for progressiveness' sake (I know a few like that, of course, and know some who are that way only in the conservative direction). I believe in making informed decisions, and if that means over-educating myself on things like vacuums, well, that's my problem.

That being said, I totally agree with not needing to change the Vizsla breed. There are plenty of other animal breeds out there that show the dangers of mucking around changing too much all at once.

And to respond to a few raised points: I'm politically liberal. I love to eat meat. I know more meat-eating liberals than vegetarian/vegans (though, to be fair, I don't think I know a vegetarian/vegan conservative that chose the lifestyle for moral reasons, as opposed to choosing it for health/lifestyle reasons). I have no problem with responsible gun ownership. I enjoy shooting guns, actually, though I don't have one. I see no problem at all with hunting for your meat, as long as it's not wasted. I have heard arguments that there's "no sense in hunting when there is plenty of meat at the grocery store." Well, frankly, no matter how you get your meat, an animal has died. And honestly, a wild pheasant or deer shot by a hunter still probably had a better life and death than any livestock raised on a confinement farm (I was raised on a small family farm and have strong opinions about the topic!). 

To be clear, I did not take any offense to anything said, nor do I mean it anywhere else!


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

I vote liberal and I've always hunted and fished, not a vegetarian or vegan either


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

I have a feeling the whole vegetarian/vegan thing has something to do with living in the CA Bay Area... haha.


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## redrover (Mar 17, 2011)

threefsh said:


> I have a feeling the whole vegetarian/vegan thing has something to do with living in the CA Bay Area... haha.


Haha, probably! I live in the Twin Cities, and was raised in rural Iowa. I do think geography has an influence on how easy it is to have a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle, especially if you live in more rural areas without specialty grocers or without having to special order some items. I mean, it's possible, but not easy, according to some friends back home. It's not hard at all in Minneapolis, of course.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

The terminology "Liberal" may mean different things here in Oz. If you are speaking of more conservative values and more conservative thinking. Then I reckon there may be a mix of both. 

As far as political view points, I struggle here in Oz. We have 2 major parties. The Liberal Government and the Labour govt. 

Liberals are more for getting business going to stimulate and economy for more wealth. Labour are all about making everyone more "Equal".

Our liberal is slightly right of centre and our labour is slightly left of centre. Neither hold views that are very far apart. So in reality, the differences are small.

As for personal thinking, I'm a mixed bag. Sometimes I have the typical Aussie mentality of "If it's not broken, why fix it?" In other words, why change when this works just fine. Until recently, we were a nation of repairers. So if something broke, either us or a professional would fix it. Lately however, we are becoming more and more consumerist and we replace rather than fix. It's much better for the neighbours to see you pushing the brand new Victa than the old one you put a new piston and rings in to keep it cutting lawn. 

Other times I have a more forward thinking and progressive attitude. So, I am really not sure where I sit.

As for my personal attitude to the V. I don't want them changed if possible. If we were able to maintain the exact dogs we have today, I would be a very happy V owner.


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## Aimless1 (Sep 25, 2011)

RBD, no offense taken, nor any intentionally given.

I'm still unclear as to what the post regards. If you're asking if V owners should be conservative regarding the breed standard, then I enthusiastically agree. I'm not entirely sure the original standard needed to be "clarified", but it was. Breeding to any standard is difficult and just like us there are no perfect dogs.

The use of conservative and liberal in America is inherently inflammatory, intentionally or otherwise ... and the words have lost all sense of their true meaning. What's really laughable for me is that I remember the Liberal Republicans (think Nelson Rockefeller) and the Southern Democrats, a notorious conservative voting bloc. Odd how those terms got reversed and then abused.

All I was pointing out is that the vast majority of us in the Western world have been educated via a liberal Western education. Parochial, private or public matters not. All teach a liberal Western curriculum ... once the envy of the entire world. That means by definition we are all liberal thinkers.

I have no idea what a liberal or conservative lifestyle is. Perhaps you mean that if you are very careful, afraid to assume risk, live by strict rules and regulations then I suppose you would be considered conservative. Conversely, if you embrace risk taking, indulge in risky behavior and eschew rules and regulations, then I suppose you would be considered liberal. I am a little of both and then again, neither describes me. None the less, I don't think either lifestyle or anything in between makes or detracts from a good Vizsla owner.

Am I conservative? Sometimes but not always. Am I liberal? Sometimes but not always. And that suits me fine. I have no interest in being limited by a label.


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## Vizsla Baby (Nov 4, 2011)

I'm a fiscal conservative who believes in minimal govt & minimal intervention into business & our private lives. Historically I've voted Republican Right now, I'm annoyed with them both. The R's and the D's have made a mess of things and let us down. We need a strong third party to rise up and truly represent the people.

I'm happy to have my beautiful family and dogs (a vizsla & a wire haired dachshund) to get my mind off the mess they have made of our fine nation.


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## INDRAJM (Dec 20, 2011)

Well, your question leads me to believe that anyone who owns a breed out of the sporting group should be conseerative. I'm liberal. I eat meat. I don't like to hunt and have never hunted my Vizslas. 

I think it's more about dedicated breeders perserving the breed then it is about if owners are liberal or conserative.Even when Vizslas aren't being hunted the instincts should all be there. My breeder has never hunted her dogs either but
several of her dogs have been sold into hunting homes and 1 has gone on to become a Master Hunter in AKC. She always makes sure her line has plenty of hunting instinct as well as good looks and health.

I read an article about a pointer breeder whose dogs are in demand all over the country for their hunting ability. Pups are pointing feathers at 8 weeks. He's built his line over many years and has never hunted a bird!!


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> Well, your question leads me to believe that anyone who owns a breed out of the sporting group should be conseerative.


Indrajm,
I guess just being conservative all my life; it is a mental thing. I work in heavy civil engineering. I maybe chose my field because we take things that work well seriously. Our lives actually do depend on things working like they should. We know they work well because they have for years. Thus a conservative approach to problems. But I buy equipment so I also look for proven improvements. A fine line. For over 25 years I have had people want to sell me the "new and improved." 95% of them are not improvements and the market causes them to fade into failure. I have purchased these failures before and spent a lot of money on them. Don't like it.

Everyone sees the world through the eyes of their experiences. 

The Vizsla is a hunting dog and should be hunt trained in my opinion. 

But that is *my* opinion. 

The joy of freedom is to do what you want responsibly and not have society tell you what you need or should do. Hunt or don't hunt. Personal choice. Just don't like those who want to infringe on, this what I and many consider, a basic right here in the US. 

Too many Vizslas that are loosing an instinct that just is not fostered or tested in real world conditions IMO. Breed standards are conservative by nature. 

A great book is "A Dog's Purpose." Highly recommended along with "Merle's Door."

Happy trails and I guess we can agree to disagree on this one.

RBD


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

_A great book is "A Dog's Purpose." Highly recommended along with "Merle's Door."_


I bought Merle's Door for my husband, per your recommendation RBD. So far, he is enjoying it immensely. I'm hoping he finishes it soon, because I want to get my hands on it


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

RBD, I get finally understand... I think... what you are getting at. While being conservative in breeding, there is nothing wrong with looking for valid improvements. Like an increased ability to hunt. 

What I liked on your post the most though was this line......... "The joy of freedom is to do what you want responsibly and not have society tell you what you need or should do." 

This, in my opinion is the way the western societies are progressing more and more each day. Those freedoms which our forefathers fought for are being eroded by people who don;t want others doing what they cannot!!!!!


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

I really think that all politicians pee in the same pot, I guess on reflection, rather than liberal I should've said mild anarchist, now that's not a revolution status as much as an apathetic statement, as i really don't give a hoot who's running the country as long as I've got fields and hills to walk and rivers to fish in, the capitalists can get rich in their monetary bliss as long as I've got my bliss when I open my back door and see those green hills


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## le_marie (Feb 24, 2012)

I would say we are conservative on fiscal issues and somewhat in the middle when it comes to social issues. My fiance has historically voted for the republican party, but both political parties pretty much annoy him right now.


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## Ruin (Nov 9, 2011)

An interesting question, but I feel there's a misuse of terms - and associations.

conservative, Liberal, liberal, Republican, republican, democrat, and Democrat are all very different words with very different meanings. I think Rod is trying to be nice and ask about American Vizsla owners and their voting behaviors without getting too political, which is tough to do.


Long post warning...

the idealist (not Idealist) in me likes to think that all dog owners choose the breed that is right for them. While preference weighs in some, at the end of the day the owner must do what's right by the dog - another living being. That we examine our lifestyles, what we can provide, and what's appropriate for where and how we live.

As has been said, since V's are sporting dogs, you do find them more with people who spend time outdoors, in the field, and probably behind a gun. The very nature of the design of the dog lends them to a certain group of people. Not everyone can be like Robin from How I Met Your Mother who's a fairly Liberal/liberal news anchor in new york city, and a gun fanatic (and my fantasy wife - yes, my actual wife already knows  ). Generally speaking, if you find someone behind a gun on a regular basis you are also more likely to find them in a house in a rural area with a certain amount of property available and in more Republican dominated areas.

Always, there are exceptions. I happen to be one of them I suppose. I have my V because he is everything I could ever want in a dog... size, color, temperament, energy level, companionship, smart, eager to please etc etc... I'm sure the same reasons we are all V owners. However, I live in a one bedroom apartment in a very urban area in a very progressive/liberal/Liberal area in the Tampa Bay area. As a result, I'm a V owner who is an NRA member who also has tattoos, wears Tevas, drinks snobby American Craft brews and eats Vegan/Vegetarian about 4 days a week - for health reasons, not some misguided political statement. Registered Independent, and have voted on both sides of the aisle since 2006 (when I was a wee lad at 19, I know, I'm a baby).

V's are affectionately called the Versatile Vizsla, and I don't think this should be forgotten. While they were bred for field work, for hunting, they are a remarkable breed and can be found in any situation as long as their needs as an animal are met. Provide a V with enough mental and physical activity, a strong pack (and pack leader) and social interaction and it will adapt to any environment I believe.

Again, when it comes to owners... at the end of the day... we're all a part of the great big velvety V family. I do agree that a majority of V owners tend to be more "conservative" as we think of the term, but I think it's also remembering that it's more about the dog than the owner.

I really hope that all made sense, I can ramble sometimes haha.


As far as the breed and whether or not a V should stay a V or a "new and improved V" could be created... this will be a long and winding debate for the next 150 years. My wife and I pulled up the AKC standards for Beagles and noticed its last revision was in 1957... V's, 2009. Standards are called such for a reason. They are meant to be set and remain in place. However, even the Army has taught me, Standards can change - look at the recent changes in the PT Tests (those who are active or prior service have probably heard more about this). Standards need to be set to ensure the highest level of competency and efficiency.

This issue is generational. Look at anything... seriously, anything... and you'll find old timers talking about the good old days and the kids talking about the up and coming. Cars, technology, medicine, everything.... everything. There's been a lot of psychological and even political research to suggest that age and life experience effect our views more than anything else ever can (well, aside from religion). Anyway.... Damnit, I'm rambling again.... curse you TANGENTS!!!

Ok, so since Malcolm has distracted me a few times... I'll try to end this...

It's psychology for me. It's easy to reminisce, to be that old sailor that thinks of the days when ships were strong, they were wood, canvas was made with care, and the simpler she was, the straighter and faster she sailed. To be the old gear head who knows that no computer can do for an engine what a well tuned four barrel carb can. The more electrics you add, the more that can fail. And then there's the wisdom of my Grandfather, and I'm sure we're not alone: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But sometimes things don't have to be broken to make them better. Imagine a V with a bloodhound's nose, with the ability and desire to retrieve like a Golden Retriever... imagine a Vizsla with an even longer life span.  I've always been under the impression the purpose of breeding is to maintain and improve the breed. Find those V's with gifted noses or retrieving abilities and have them create litters. More V's that are that awesome! Over time, it gets better and better. The goal is to improve within the breed... once you add other breeds, well, you don't have a V any more.



Ok, so with distractions that took **** near an hour. I'm done and hope at least one person read all my ramblings haha.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

Ruin said:


> An interesting question, but I feel there's a misuse of terms - and associations.
> 
> conservative, Liberal, liberal, Republican, republican, democrat, and Democrat are all very different words with very different meanings. I think Rod is trying to be nice and ask about American Vizsla owners and their voting behaviors without getting too political, which is tough to do.
> 
> ...


as it took you that long to write it (with distractions) I read it at least, and whilst I don't agree with all you've said (as some translations may have been lost on the trans-atlantic route) we're all sticky-viz lovers


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## INDRAJM (Dec 20, 2011)

We definitely don't agree on this one!! That's OK. I have nothing against people who choose to hunt as long as they use what they kill. I have no desire to curb hunting or make it illegal like some of these radical animal activist groups want to do.

I don't feel that Vizslas have to be hunted to be owned. I chose the breed based on how they excelled in performance events, primarily agility. I don't agree that hunting instinct is being lost in the Vizsla. They are one of the few sporting breeds that are still being bred to be dual purpose dogs. A dog should be able to go hunt in the field all day today and step in the breed ring tomorrow and win Best of breed or win points towards it's championship. The VCA has made huge improvements by making a rule that at it's Nationals field dogs must also conform to the breed standard in order to particpate. This means if the dog has white that extends beyond it's knuckle or is too tall or small they can't run. Anything that would disqualify them from the breed ring will disqualify them from the field trials at nationals. IMO this is how we keep the breed strong and hunting instinct intact.
I don't think my Vizslas were depreved because they didn't hunt. They were agility dogs that traveled, stayed in motels and spent hours working by my side to perfect our craft. When out for a run they would often point a bird, granted it was a pigeon and it was a beautiful sight. Some of their littermates did go to hunting homes and the person who owned my boy's sister told my breeder she was the best bird dog he'd ever had. He's owned V's for about 30 yrs.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

I think one thing we can definitely all agree on is that Vizsla owners are some of the nicest people in this world, regardless of political affiliation. I can honestly say I've never met a V owner I haven't liked. ;D I constantly have other V owners coming up to me when I walk Riley to ask if she's a V and discuss how wonderful the breed is. Just a few weeks ago, a police officer pulled off the road and parked to come see Riley. He apparently has a 2 year old V at home that he adores. I think the dogs' loving nature must rub off on all of us! 8)


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## Ruin (Nov 9, 2011)

harrigab said:


> as it took you that long to write it (with distractions) I read it at least, and whilst I don't agree with all you've said (as some translations may have been lost on the trans-atlantic route) we're all sticky-viz lovers


Thank you! I'd be curious to see what you think was lost in translation. It wasn't exactly "A" quality work haha. I'm up for talking about anything, regardless of agreement.

We are all V lovers and we are all the nicest dog owners in the world. It's true. I know because I read it on the internet.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/10/hunt-for-dog-or-dog-for-hunt.html

What an amazing group of characters we have here on this forum. For those new to it we have a lot more fun than lets say those on the German Shorthair forum! ;D

Happy trails, Off to the last pheasant hunt of the year Sunday. And yes, we eat what we harvest.

Enjoyable thread IMO. 

RBD


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## Bodhi (Jan 1, 2010)

Fascinating thread...

Can't say I'm liberal or conservative but stuck somewhere in between. I'm attracted to and care a lot about the Vizsla breed, and if you are too, I could careless about your political point of view!

A year ago I found this web site which surveys peoples morals and political views thought provoking as the research team identified five moral values that liberals score high on two, and conservatives score high on all five.

http://www.yourmorals.org/

If you're not interested in taking a survey you may be interested in this TED talk about the subject (~20 minutes of your time) by Jonathan Haidt:

http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/

What all this has to do with owning a vizsla? I don't know but figured I'd through this into the thread mix for those who are interested.

Aloha


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

redbirddog said:


> http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/10/hunt-for-dog-or-dog-for-hunt.html
> 
> What an amazing group of characters we have here on this forum. For those new to it we have a lot more fun than lets say those on the German Shorthair forum! ;D
> 
> ...


How true. You may remember I posted a thread that gratuitously extolled the virtues of this forum. I'm on the Australian version which is not just for V's, but for all dogs, with a breed sub section. There are some catty, nasty people in there, who if they disagree, become rather unsavoury. In here, there is always differences of opinion, but it appears to be OK to express an opinion which isn't in line with others, without fear of verbal retribution. 

I actually enjoy each and every visit in here. Where as, It's a mixed bag on other forums. Sometimes it's fun, sometimes it's nasty.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

being a CE like RBD-I think we were bred to be conservative(LOL)- V's only need is love and training-it's to late to breed the hunting out of them thank God-I have never met a V when off lead did not find a bird interesting-great thing about V's is they are apolitical and love nice people-works for me!


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> ..it's too late to breed the hunting out of them thank God


REM,

Really? Living in a large metropolitan area and meeting over a hundred different Vizslas over the last few years, I have. Dogs that couldn't tell a bird from a box of soap and honestly couldn't care less. But they sure are pretty to look at.

Complacency is the enemy of excellence.
Apathy is the enemy of freedom.

RBD


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

RBD I need 2 go to a big city sometime(NOT) If what U say is true (sure it is)then some breeders must be going for show and no go-shame on them! the only form of govt that works is a benevolent dictatorship - vote for me (LOL)


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Its sad when a breed splits into what looks like two different breeds.
The show line and the field line. Then what I find even more appalling is if a dog is placing in either category some forget about temperament.

I don't think I'm crazy for just wanting my vizslas to meet the breed standards and hunt.


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## Aimless1 (Sep 25, 2011)

Coming from the world of setters, I've seen the split. The huge show dogs that couldn't spend an entire day in the field if their life depended on it. The smaller field dogs that may not be large enough to meet the newer revised breed standards, and certainly won't place. Would hate to see that happen to another breed, and especially to the V. Safe guarding the current or original breed standard is key. I would prefer that show dogs be required to show some basic hunting skill and that the trial dogs meet basic conformation requirements. That would serve the breed well for a long time to come.

Conservative? Liberal? Always thought I was until I moved to Ottawa County in Michigan. John Birch is regarded as a flaming liberal where I live. It's all relative, and meaningless IMHO when it comes to Vizslas. The issues you refer to RBD is a breeder/buyer issue. That will never go away but adhering to our standard will ensure the long term viability of our beloved Vs.


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## ajadedepiphany (Feb 24, 2012)

I'm new to the forum so I'm definitely not going to get all political and wonky on people here but I will say, I'm vegetarian, I don't hunt, I do own a gun, I did vote Democrat in 2008 and I don't live in California. =)


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

R said:


> RBD I need 2 go to a big city sometime(NOT) If what U say is true (sure it is)then some breeders must be going for show and no go-shame on them! the only form of govt that works is a benevolent dictatorship - vote for me (LOL)


Benevolent??? When did you change REM???????


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Ozkar-as soon as I get in office!-------------Aja-got a gun and do not live in Ca- as meat loaf sang 2 out of 3 ain't bad-LOL


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