# aggression towards son



## buntingjen (Jun 20, 2011)

Please advise. My 7 month old Vizsla, Max, has been very well socialized and seems submissive in general. He listens to all commands from me and my son practices the commands with him also; however, he is only with me one week on and one week he is with his dad elsewhere. Max is always good natured EXCEPT three times now he has been aggressive with my son. My 12 year old is very mature, and very good with the dog. I have a lot of experience with dogs. Please no condescending advice. 

Max, has growled at my son twice when he tried to move him in his bed, and once, tonight when he was chewing a butcher bone. I am very concerned that this will escalate. I know I can tell my son not to interact with the dog at these times, but a well socialized dog should not growl at any time. I am quite distressed that we will have to give him up.

As I said, he is very obedient, good natured and submissive otherwise. Any thoughts??


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

Hi 
What is your &/or your son's reaction to your pup when he growls? Does your son have any caretaker roles when he is home w/ you such as feeding? How does your pup react to you if you were to try & move him or interact when he has a bone? Does he just growl or does he growl, snap, &/or bite? Sorry for all the questions, but I wanted to make sure I understood the situation before fully responding (I'm no expert :)


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

At 7 months it is hard believe a dog can be that dangerous. Perhaps playing harder but I just don't think the dog means to really hurt your son. 
If the dog listens to you than you must be around and arbitrate the situation. That elevates your son's position to higher in the pack.

PS leave the butcher bones for now. Not really needed for proper development.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Think about the behaviour, think about what you have posted carefully. The answers to your questions are in there. 

1. Your son is one week on one week off. So, your dog probably thinks it goes you, the dog, your son in terms of hierarchy. You need to carefully help your dog understand that it goes you, your son and then the dog. I would try and have your son take charge of the resources in your home when he is there as a starting point. So, you do nothing for the dog when your son is there. Allow your son to give it attention, toys, play, water, food, treats and exercise. 

2. The growling is both dominance and being a bit ticked off with being moved while sleeping. But, once again, once the dog realises where the pecking order starts and finishes, he won't be growling at your son. 

In the meantime, as Datacan has suggested, you need to intervene and make the dog aware it's not OK to behave like that. Repetition and consistency and it should be sorted.

Just to share with you how that behaviour works, Ozkar my 12 month old V boy who is entire, only stays one or two nights per week. Astro is 8.5 months old and was neutered early in life before I got him. He's only been here for a little over two months. But because he is a full time house member now, he puts himself higher on the food chain as Ozkar and as a result, if Ozkar tries to disturb his sleep by moving him or walking or stepping on him, he growls at him. Same if Zsa Zsa does it to Astro, Astro will correct her, so he thinks he is next in line already. Zsa Zsa let's him think that too, till she's had enough... then she corrects as the matriarch should  

Good luck with your puppy and don't forget at that age, they are still just puppies and should be given some licence. Don't panic at the behaviour, just take charge and correct it early and gently. Kind encouraging words and positive reinforcement are always a better behavioural influencer with a V puppy than negative reinforcement. 

I hope I havn't sounded condescending in any way?


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

Are you sure he is growling? Our pup Riley groans & grunts all the time. Most people confuse it with growling until I explain. She always grunts at us when we move her or bother her in her sleep.  

If it is growling, I agree with what others have said previously. I would recommend your son hand-feed him food (his regular meals) as part of his training regimen. Your son should make him work for all his food, even if it's as simple as "sit" & "down".


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## kellygh (Oct 25, 2010)

While I agree with most everything that has been said, I do not agree that your pup should be cut any slack-especially when kids are involved. It should be clear at 7m, IMO, that growling &/or snapping will not ever be tolerated-ever! That's just me, but with 3 young kids in my house, any & alll signs of dominance or aggression are nipped in the bud immediately. My way may not be preferred, but I offer no leeway in this department. I do not yell at or beat any animal, but I will instantly grab them firmly by the scruff w/ a very Sharp "no" with repetition of whatever behavior brought on the incident. Our Pumpkin makes many moans and groans as well, but her growl is clear even if through body language alone; however, I recognize that may not be the case with other vocal Vs. Best wishes!


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

> I am quite distressed that we will have to give him up.


"The single most powerful tool we have for bonding with our dogs is the walk. Walking is a primal exercise that awakens all of her pack instincts. No amount of toys or treats will make her happier than a brisk, hourly walk by your side. Yet the walk is one area where dog owners seem to have the most problems. Most people have the dog out in front, pulling them forward. I’ve asked the reason for this and I usually get, “She loves her freedom.” Freedom?

A dog is a pack animal and what she really wants from the walk is leadership and structure. To me, the best role models for great dog walking technique are the homeless and the service dog-using handicapped! Why? They seem to better understand the concept of canine pack leadership. The leader is always in front during the walk. And for many homeless, their dogs often aren’t even on a leash – they choose to stay behind or beside their owners.

Of course a dog wants to sniff the ground and pee on a tree during the walk, but it is important that we as pack leaders understand that we should be making the “when and where” decisions for them. Following our rules gives the dog confidence because she’s working for every privilege she gets." - Cesar Millan 

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2009/12/history-and-misconceptions-of-dominance.html

RBD


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## Crazy Kian (Aug 10, 2009)

datacan said:


> *At 7 months it is hard believe a dog can be that dangerous.* Perhaps playing harder but I just don't think the dog means to really hurt your son.
> If the dog listens to you than you must be around and arbitrate the situation. That elevates your son's position to higher in the pack.
> 
> PS leave the butcher bones for now. Not really needed for proper development.


A dog is an animal, if he or she feels threatened it will defend itself. If he or she does not like something being done he or she will let it be known.

Last summer my GF's grandma (85 yrs old) who has been around Kian many times and even played with him a little was growled at by Kian. She made a suden move that startled Kian and he growled at her..an oldy lady who couldn't hurt a fly. Well, I corrected Kian because that sort of attitude is not tolerated with us. She even corrected him to ensure her role as top dog around him. Within a minute he was submitting to her and behaving like a good dog.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Kian, that's what I meant. Excellent example.


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

Our 6-month old puppy Gus started growling at us when he was about 4 months old, whenever we tried to pull him off the couch at night. (Sometimes he responded to the "off" command, but sometimes he didn't.) Since he was so young and couldn't do much damage anyway, I just gave him a firm "No!", and picked him up anyway. I didn't want him to think that his behavior would work.

I've been working on waking him up and picking him up off the couch often, and also giving him treats when he reacts positively, and it has seemed to help. He'll now let me grab him off the couch, although I usually give him a command to get off first now. Anyway, I think it may be more normal than you think for a dog to not like being disturbed. Gus still doesn't like it, so he will now generally get off if I tell him to, to avoid being picked up or physically moved.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Mmmm, jjohnson don't pick up any big dog (just too heavy). Just move into it's space. Try it, it's fun (do not try this with dogs that don't know you, though.)
When the alpha dog wants something it just moves into the space and the other dog has the option to move or fight to defend. Most likely they will move.

Our V will start dancing around ;D and I keep moving into him until he gets the message and and settles on his day bed. This is most effective for jumping up on us.

OF course you would have to pick the dog up if it's sick and needs medical attention.


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

If course you don't pick up a full grown dog. I'm talkin abo a puppy. And "shove off the couch" would be a better description.


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## buntingjen (Jun 20, 2011)

Thank you very much to all who responded. This forum is very good for providing advice and support to Vizsla owners. We are working with Max. He does have a dominant personality but he is learning. He hasn't growled since, but it had only happened 3 times in total so maybe the situation has not occurred.

Max listens to all of the training my son, B, gives him, but just now B was lying on Max's dog bed. Max didn't like it, but I told B to stay there to claim the bed. Max started mounting him which he doesn't do typically and which we all know means dominance. When B went to push him away, it looked like Max wanted to nip him but he restrained himself and started chewing his toy. It appeared to be a stress chew to stop himself from misbehaving. 

Needless to say Max is under a bit of stress now because things are changing around here. I am making it as clear as possible that he is beneath all of us in hierarchy. I think as Redbird dog mentioned the top thing is getting him under control on his leash which I haven't been very good at teaching in the past. I mostly took him on off leash walks. Now I am spending a lot more time doing leash training.

Thanks again!


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