# Lonely in the crate?



## pippa31 (Aug 2, 2011)

We have been crate-training our vizsla, Pippa, since we brought her home at 7 weeks. She is 5 months old now. We have an open kitchen/family room and her crate has always been in there. For the past week or so, she has been waking up in the middle of the night and crying. Pippa has slept through the night (10-6) since the day we brought her home. I asked our trainer about it and we did a TON of crate work, but the cries continue. So, our trainer thinks Pippa is lonely and that we should put another crate up in our bedroom for nighttime sleeping. Normally I would say sure, but we have 2 cats that we had since before the dog and I have wanted to try to preserve our bedroom as part of the cats' space. I've read the threads on this forum of, "Where does your dog sleep?", etc. but am wondering if anyone has gone through this middle of the night waking up stuff (at 5 months!) and if I should indeed just try a crate in our room or are there ways I can hang tough and help Pippa feel less lonely in her crate downstairs?


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

It's not unusual. 
As Pippa grows she us going to want to insert herself in the family dynamic more and more. So yeah, she may be wanting to be closer to you.
She also could be undergoing physical changes and is uncomfortable and needs to get out the door. I know that my dogs routinely wake me up to go out and pee, and then they go right back to sleep. Kinda like a little kids. As they got older and more adult like the behavior stopped.
I understand about the cats having their space, as ours has the basement to himself(The dogs aren't allowed in the basement.) However, after the first year or so, they all just kind of came to an agreement and don't really mess with other and sleep in the same spaces. Drink from the same bowl, and sometimes the cat filches some of their kibble. Little dirtball even takes it while their eating. Brave little kitty. 
I guess the point is that the cat's will preserve their own space. Unless Pippa is a hazard to them, I'd just let them co-exist if you're willing to have Pippa in the bedroom in a crate.


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## Adelle25 (Sep 4, 2011)

Hello 

Poor Pippa, before moving her to your bedroom, go through all the basics like: is she warm enough?, is the crate big enough? does she have available water? etc
She might still be teething and need to chomp on something.
On here a lady recommended a wet frozen tea towel and copper loves it, because it is cold it sooths their gums

Its a catch 22 because if your start going to her she will start getting in the route and do it every night. I only have Copper in my bed as a treat. 

I personally do think that us as owners need our own space too and as much as we love them and treat them like our babies they are dogs and as long as you do everything to make them comfortable and happy Pippa should realise that crying in the night has no affect and will stop. 

Adelle


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

I would get another trainer.  The dog is trying to train YOU. Make sure the pup had a chance to eat and drink 2 hours before crating and then take out for at least 5 minutes immediately before crating. Then lock the door and ignore the pup until it's time to open the door. Of course, if the dog is sick that is another story. Anything else IGNORE, don't ever look at the dog. It will get better, I promise. We as owners make the mistakes and give the pup the wrong signals. They will also try to break your heart and work you over and over until they get what they want. You give a Vizsla what it wants, and they remember it for months! Don't give in and life will be better for both of you. I promise.


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## KonasPop (Aug 9, 2011)

Had same thing from 5-6mo and then it stopped. I would wait it out.


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## doubletrouble (Oct 12, 2011)

Were new to the site and really enjoying all the input! We have TWO 13-week male littermates because we were afraid they would get lonely being in the crate while we are at work and at night. I would try the bedroom with the crate and see if it makes a difference. When our puppies are really tired they sleep all night and when they stir, we take them out and they have a bm and head right back to sleep. Still wondering if 2 was a good or bad idea, they really ram!


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## Kobi (Oct 26, 2010)

YOU HAVE TWO 13 WEEK-OLD VIZSLAS?!?! You are brave! Brave, and lucky I guess. There are times I would envy you for having two... and times I definitely would not  

The puppies seem to sorta go through phases.... one thing I've noticed is with Kobi is that when he is well exercised this happens A LOT less.


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## pippa31 (Aug 2, 2011)

Soooo....we tried the crate in the bedroom - did not work. Pippa is still up 2-3 times a night crying and whining. We have not slept through the night in 3 weeks (keep in mind that up until 3 weeks ago, she slept through the night EVERY night since the night we brought her home). It's not a lack of exercise (she gets 1-2 hours off-leash every day), it's not lack of training (we are working with a trainer and I work on training every day), so we are not sure what to do (and going a bit insane with lack of sleep :-\)

Our trainer has suggested that we put her in the crate at night and keep the crate door open, then pen her in to a small, puppy-proofed space to see if that helps (the crate will be a part of the small space). She says that some dogs with mild cases of separation anxiety can actually become MORE anxious in the crate. Thoughts??

Last night I came down and let her out at 1:00 (when she was crying and crying and crying). Then let her cry it out when she got up at 3:00. I am wondering if I should continue to just let her cry it out??

I have seen posts from other people who had this issue, right around this time (Pippa is 5 months), but no follow-ups as to how interventions went and if they were able (and how) to get through this stage.

We love our girl so much. Just want to keep her safe in the crate until the chewing is done


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

Best thing here is tough love. If you want your V to be able to make it through the night leave her in the crate. Get some ear plugs and if you have neighbors send them some flowers. Let her cry it out. These pups are smart. If they cry and you let them out they will cry and cry. If you want her to get independent enough to last all night you need to ignore the crying. She will soon figure it out.


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

I think the kindest thing you can do when you are trying to teach your puppy (or adult dog) something is to be patient and CONSISTENT. If you are inconsistent, it will only confuse her. Dogs really are creatures of habit, and once they know the routine, they will be comfortable and happy. So if you're serious about the crate training, you must establish a routine and stick with it.


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

. I don't like your trainer's advise one bit. Honestly, and with no malice towards you. I think you should read the posts above again and adhere to them in every way. I also believe that you are contributing to the problem. These dogs are smart and have the memory of an elephant! You let her out of the crate when she was crying! Well, now it will take about 7-10 days of her whining and barking every night until you convince her you will not make the same mistake. IGNORE her while she is in the crate. She should go in the crate 3 times a day and be ignored when you are in the same room or in another room. It's that simple . You can start by doing it for 20 minutes and then build it up every day until she sees you are serious and will be consistent as Mswipple stated.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Our Sam is 8 months and I remember at 5 months it was a lot easier. Morning exercise followed by a little rest, breakfast, potty break then sleep until 2 pm. 
If Pippa is not resting she needs more exercise, lessons or needs to be a little more tired.
*I don't like the 2 crates idea at all*. An alternative is to have day beds but only one sleeping crate.
Ignoring them is stupid, also. Just letting them outside and spending 5 minutes with them, then returning to the crate or day bed, most of the time is all that's needed. 
A little more stimulation in the morning and late afternoon is what all dogs need. Rest of the time all animals sleep or wait, that's how it works in nature. 
Generally, it is a training requirement for dogs to accept to be staked out in the yard or inside the house on a day bed while they are young. 

Hope this helps, good luck and remember once she is older you think back and reminisce how easy it used to be when she was 5 months old.

I need to add that I never just ignore our dog, shut the crate door and forget about it. 
If it cries consistently I know it did not have enough stimulation and simply allow the dog out of the crate and teach it something for 5 or 10 minutes. 
For example, "Crate" is an important command and all dogs must know. The way I taught it, I kept repeating the word crate, crate, crate, crate and walked the dog on leash into the crate, allow it to come out and repeat the process 10- 20 times/session. I must have done it 600 times by now. The result is a dog who really knows what crate means.
Dogs are place oriented and must be shown first what any command means. 
Same goes for the day bed. I use "place" - repeat the word over and over as I walk the dog onto the day bed and stop, sit, down (which means relax, stay here). "Place" means go onto the day bed, lie down and relax.
I know most trainers warn against repeating any command more than once but if the dog doesn't know perfectly well what the command means it is cruel to enforce it, IMO.


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

datacan said:


> *I don't like the 2 crates idea at all*. Ignoring them is stupid, also. Generally, it is a training requirement for dogs to accept to be staked out in the yard or inside the house on a day bed while they are young.
> 
> Hope this helps, good luck and remember once she is older you think back and reminisce how easy it used to be when she was 5 months old.
> 
> ...


You can take this advice but as mentioned above. If you don't ignore the puppy when it cries it will quickly figure out that crying equals a get out of the crate session. So as long as you are happy to get up in the middle of the night whenever your dog calls you 'cries' then you can do this. My pup would have me figured out really quick if I responded to crying!!!


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Not exactly, we are talking about a 5 month old. Without proper stimulation what is going to happen later?

The crate is a command. Period. It must be obeyed by the dog without any fuss. I simply think most dogs think crate is optional only at night. Not so. You can move the crate into the back yard and repeat the command, go through the motions again and again. I guarantee the dog will not fight the command once it knows it must be obeyed. 

As with all commands I think most people do not lay the foundation properly. The dog had no idea what is asked or simply ignoring the command.

/again, ignoring the dog and putting it into a crate without proper stimulation is just cruel, IMO.

http://www.georgehickox.com/about_george_hickox_dvd.html

Just trying to help,
Julius


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## ivyvizsla (Jul 24, 2011)

I can offer advice as we had some tough times crate training our V. It took him a good 2 months of being with us to even start feeling comfy in the crate at night, and especially during the day. We started him in the other room, which resulted in cries all night long. We moved him into the bedroom, close enough so my husband could put his hand down in the middle of the night to soothe, etc. After about a week of that, we started backing the kennel out towards our door. Each night we moved it 6inches/1foot towards the door. Then it was just outside the door, then around the corner, etc. Eventually, he calmed down and went right to sleep. Now we can close our bedroom door, and he is in a little alcove right outside our master bedroom. I find now he only yelps if he needs to go outside - which, as a puppy, still is expected. It's a treasure to sleep through the night, but not something I am expecting 100% right now. Best of luck! We are finally getting back to our non-sleep-deprived-selves!


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## jld640 (Sep 29, 2010)

Since you have tried most of the crate training advice, perhaps it is time to try a different angle. 

With the weather changing, is the crate too cold for her? At 5 months, she probably does not have a lot of body fat to keep her warm Perhaps put an extra blanket in her crate or a cover over the crate.

Is she entering a fear phase? Is there a furnace or something else that may be making noise at night that didn't occur before? If so, perhaps let a radio play softly in the background.

Is she hungry? Can you give her a handful of kibble or a short training session with a few kibble rewards before bed time and not cause a potty-training setback?

Is she thirsty? If you are taking away water a few hours before she goes to bed, perhaps give her an ice cube when you put her in her crate.

Is she bored? Perhaps an extra walk before bed or a different chew toy in her crate.

Once you go through all that, my only other thought would be the possibility of controlling when she wakes or is let out of the crate. Perhaps set your alarm to wake you a half-hour or so before she normally starts crying. Wake her up, take her outside for a potty time, and put her back to bed. If this option works, then each day, set the alarm a bit later.

Good luck!


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## tracker (Jun 27, 2011)

We are going through some similar issues with Lui who is 10 months old. 

The first night we had him home was 2 weeks ago. We started with the crate on oru main floor great room, and we sleep upstairs in the master bedroom. 

The first few days, he cried for about 10 mins before he fell asleep, then woke up a few times each night and started crying again. I went downstairs to let him out the first couple of nights, then I just couldn't function during the day because I was sleep deprived. 

After the first couple of days I moved his crate into our finished basement, covered it with a big blanket, and left a radio on with very low volume. This has seemed to work for us so far, mostly because I can not hear him cry as much, and secondly I am much happier to see him when I have had a solid nights rest. 

At the end o the day, like other posts in this thread, it is all about consistency and routine. Once they know what is expected of them, they will want to do it to please you. 

Just my two cents, not sure if it's worth anything!!


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

Bingo! Copper goes into his crate around 10:30 after his nightime walk. He looks up at us and with those orange Vizsla eyes and says - "shut the door would ya! I want to go to sleep now." ;D


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