# Future Vizsla owner worried about chosen breeder



## ottopux (Apr 1, 2014)

Hello all! I'm new in this forum for obvious reasons – I don't own a Vizsla yet!

I am on a waiting list (already paid half the price...) for a Vizsla that should be born in about 10 days.

Yesterday I decided to investigate the pedigree of the dogs that my breeder uses for breeding and found out what looks like a serious case of inbreeding. The same dogs show up in multiple places on the family tree, but most importantly many of them are the direct result of mating:

1. brother and sister
2. father and daughter
3. grandfather and granddaughter

The idea sickens me! Is this normal? Should I consider cancelling the reservation?

thank you for your help!


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Is there a Vizsla club in your area? 

You can usually talk to some old time members and go over the pedigree with them. There are guidelines with regards to dog inbreeding that are different then humans, so if I was buying a pup that was going to be with me for 16 years I'd find out all I could about their history.


The quality Vizsla breeding community is well connected and kennels are known for the dogs they create. I'd be asking a lot of questions. Good to do now then in six months from now.

Best of luck. Not all Vizslas are created equally.

RBD


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## ottopux (Apr 1, 2014)

Unfortunately there is no Vizsla club. I live in Italy and there are only two "serious" breeders for the whole country.

I understand that rules are different for humans and dogs. From what I have been able to read about the subject mating brothers and sisters or fathers and daughters is nonetheless frowned upon by a lot of experts.

Wanted to understand if this is a normal thing for other breeders or if the one I chose is below average in terms of diversity of genes. thanks!


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## Vizsla Baby (Nov 4, 2011)

We have a dachshund we rescued when he was about 2 (who used to be a show dog for the breeder but he was a tad shy so they didn't want to show him anymore). 

He's 14 now and very healthy. His Dad is also his great-grandfather -- so I know that inbreeding standards that humans use are different for dogs.

That said, I'd definitely do some research but you might be OK.


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

I don't know what the rules for breeding are in Italy or the US, but in the UK, the Kennel Club is discouraging inbreeding. The breed Societies produce what they call a COI (I think that is what it is called). The VS in the UK reduced that to 4% this year.

Here is a link to the Vizsla database where a lot of breeding Vizslas and their offspring are registered. If your breeder has show dogs there is a good chance that you will find their pedigrees together with such things as hip scores for several generations. It will also give you the inbreeding coefficient at the bottom.

I don't wish to get into the pros and cons of inbreeding ( as I am NOT knowledgeable on the subject of genetics), but I bought my first wire-haired vizsla because of all the health issues that have arisen in the past 20yrs in Great Danes - in my opinion due to inbreeding. My wire-haired Vizsla has a COI of 4% and I particular looked for a low coefficient.

http://www.vizsladatabase.com

I hope this helps. Good Luck.


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

Sorry forgot to add the link to the Vizsla database for you, in my last post.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

You can research the difference between linebreeding and inbreeding. It should give you a good idea if the breeder is taking big risks with their breeding program.
Is there a health screening data base for dogs being bred in Italy. If there is, does the breeder screen their dogs for known health problems in the breed?


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://www.bracoslaserrota.es/actualidad.html

A breeder in Spain that I follow if _ottopux_ is still with us. Wonderful blog and a very connected breeder.

Good luck.

RBD


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## Kafka (Jul 24, 2013)

Maybe you can consider looking for breeders in other countries? I have no idea if there are regulations but I would think that within the EU you can easily bring your dog across borders.
I'm saying this because I'm from Europe and I live in the USA now and that has really changed my view on distances! When still living in Europe I would never think of going to another country to get a dog but it could be as close as just a few hours away. There are plenty of people here who will drive across many states to get a Viszla from a breeder they prefer. I think a part of it is that they're used to longer distances.
I don't know if this makes sense, but I just wanted to let you know that maybe it's worth expending your search outside your country.
I'm sorry I don't have any knowledge about inbreeding. I hope it all works out. Good luck!


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## BirdWatcher (Jun 12, 2012)

I guess this puppy will be born about now. From what I have seen of responsible breeders in the UK it is very hard to get unrelated vizslas because of the genetic bottleneck they went through when their population reduced. This means that some genetic co-efficient is tolerated - but brother and sister etc. I find that shocking. The chance of genetic problems from apparently healthy dogs is high with this sort of breeding - the recessives will come out. There is a breeder called 'Gunfield Vizslas' in the UK. Google them and maybe e-mail to ask what they would say. Their overriding concern is the health of the vizsla and notice how they provide the 'inbreeding coefficient' when they describe the litters see http://hungarianvizsla.org.uk/puppies.html . I bet they would even know where to source a healthy puppy in Italy.

My vizsla was recently ill and for a brief time we thought it was genetic and her quality of life would be affected. No-one should be willfully breeding puppies that are going to result in that sort of heartache.


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## Iwantavizsla (Apr 15, 2014)

Hi all!! I am wanting to get a wirehaired vizsla also in the fall of 2015! I'm moving to California an want a companion!!!! Does anyone know where I can find some awesome breeders? I messages a few folks in the UK but they are being quite unfriendly. I traveled the world as a missionary so I understand their dislike of me as an American!!! Anyways can anyone help me!!!


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## DPVIZSLA62 (Nov 26, 2018)

WARNING ⚠ www.valledoslobos Spain 🇪🇸 

26 November 2018 


Dear All

Please see email below and be aware of this breeder!

Regards

David Power 





From: David Power <[email protected]>
Date: 26 November 2018 at 04:57:56 CET
To: [email protected]
Subject: Valle Dos Lobos - Death of Maximus Vizsla Puppy! 

26 November 2018

www.vizsla.es


Hello

Having stumbled across your webpage I am slightly alarmed that you promote Valle Dos Lobos / Susana Perez as a professional breeder of Vizsla! 

www.valledoslobos.com

We are taking Ms Perez to court for selling us a puppy/Maximus, in June 2018 that had diabetes insipidus, which when we challenged Ms Perez on our puppies large intake of water (3 to 4 litres per day) she denied there was a problem! The puppy also had a skin condition called malasezia! Again Ms Perez denied this! 







Maximus died of parvo virus 13 October 2018 and cost us 3000 euros in total with Vet Bills! The underlying diabetes probably contributed to the Parvo Virus vaccinations not working! The Parents and Puppy’s Health Check Certificates that Ms Perez provided us was written by her vet AFTER the death of Maximus/our puppy, which is WRONG!

We have since learned from making contact with other European Vizsla breeders that Ms Perez has a reputation for greed! 

You might wish to review your promotion of a breeder that puts money before the health of her breed! This will be spread virally on all social media. 
Kind regards


#valledoslobos #vizslabreeder #vizslaspain #


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