# Advice for Water Recall



## Kay92 (Oct 19, 2012)

Ok, in general Chuck and Riley have fantastic recall. When they are far away we just have to clap our hands and say their names (sometimes we don't even have to say their names). But we noticed something about Sir Chuck.

It might seem odd for me to be posting this during the middle of winter but I want to have as many suggestions under my belt for when we go back to swimming. So here's the story...

We rescued Chuck in March and took him to the park which a pond. He absolutely loves it. He will go and go and go. But he attacks their fountain and he spins it around and drowns it as he attacks it. Once he is in the water he will not come when called. We had to walk to the gate and act like we were leaving, and toward the end of the season that wasn't even working. He has been banned from the pond until we can get it figured out. So does any one have any suggestions about what we can do to work on it? We just want him to be able to swim safely and have fun. Thank!!!!


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

the E-collar - love it or hate it it works PIKE got 1at 6mo - lucky for me & him - a beep works - 1 beep whoa - 3 beeps here - the only time he gets nicked is when I think something is dangerous - PIKE is not allowed to touch a paved road unless at heel - learned it at 6mo & it will save is life 1 day !


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Ecollar on lower setting because skin impedance decreases when wet. Dry skin's impedance is much higher. 
In any case an ecollar provides localized stimulation only.


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## Vida (Dec 26, 2011)

Step 1 - take your e-collar and your dog
Step 2- proceed to lake
Step 3 - throw e-collar into the lake!
Herein lies the beginning of you learning to TRAIN your dog..
Take your dog out walking on his lead (slip lead is my preference), MAKE him walk to heel and listen to you. You don't need to be harsh or hurt him,just have faith and believe.. you are the leader,YOU are in charge. It takes weeks... sometimes months, every day make time to train your doggy, once he's listening on the lead you need to tighten up that recall. Make yourself the best place in the world for him to be! Keep sausage/ liver treats or dried lung/ cheese in your dog coat pocket,just for occasional treat when he's been super quick at returning to you. He must look to you for guidance , go to lots of different places so he doesn't know the route.change direction frequently,hide from him  make yourself interesting.
Don't call him repeatedly,stay quiet. Set yourself up to succeed....
...when he's coming close towards you ,a quiet 'good boy'. Drop your right hand and let him gently make contact 'good boy'.
It takes a LOT of time and patience, like a child! A vizsla trainer will give you loads of techniques to keep your dog focused on 
you.
Good luck!


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

I agree with Vida that it is time to TRAIN the dog, not coax, coddle and request. That's pretty much where we'd part on approach.

I've yet to find a dog treat that will entice a dog off a "kill". In this case, the joy of the "prey" being substituted by the fountain. Additionally, most people do not have months to Sweet train a problem out. So with respect to Vida, my experience would say that approach would be an exercise in frustration and futility for probably 95+% of the population, myself included. Training that leads to frustration generally enlists a host of new problems brought forth by all 100% natural human anger. Even a Saint would be pressed to stay positive and focused while their dog is embarassingly attacking a fountain and people are yelling at them to get their dog out, banishing them, etc. Love them or hate them, the e-collar is a tool, nothing more, nothing less. It is an extension of a lead on which the dog first learns the commands. Overlaying the stimulation of the e-collar gives one the ability to correct at distance, and like it or not, sometimes the most effective training takes place in one instance of an appropriate, well timed CORRECTION. Especially when breaking a dog of a learned/undesired behavior. 

Coaxing Chuck away is not working, as he's learned he doesn't HAVE to come when you call him. My guess is you could offer a rump roast and he'd rather "kill" the fountain. It's unclear if the pond is wadeable by a person or if the depth would require a swim between the shore and fountain. If one can wade, and one absolutely abhors e-collar training, then it's going to be wet training which can actually be quite refreshing. 

Unknowingly, You've trained him that in this case he doesn't have to respond. As a general rule, it's 3 to 1 to remove a previously trained behavior. 3 repititions of new behavior to one of the previous. I think that fun time bad behavior is likely a much higher ratio.

For a no e-collar approach, and assuming it is wadeable, I would suggest backing up to a longer check cord, let him enter a pond, splash around to the end of the cord, then call him back - *ONCE.* When he doesn't come, *you have control* and pull him back in to you. He stays with you until calm, then release him for more fun. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. 

When he is responding well on checkcord, then release him and get in the water. He'll likely beeline for the fountain. When you call him *ONCE* and he doesn't come, then you go to the fountain, grab him and firmly take him back to where you called him. Put him on the checkcord and back up to the pond edge again, repeating and reinforcing the prior training. Personally, I'd throw the treats in the lake for this type of training, especially if it's not wadeable. I would first teach/reinforce the learned on lead recall, then overlay the e-collar to substitue for the tug from the lead and transition to off lead using the e-collar as the leash. I can give softer reminders with todays e-collars than I can with a leash. I can adjust it to exactly the level the dog needs as a reminder and no more. The dogs are HAPPY and so is the trainer.

The hardest part of this is to limit the command to ONE. We all want to give our dog the benefit of the doubt and request they comply again, and maybe one more time. Each time the timber of our voice changes, gets tougher, louder, stronger - more angry. Remember - the dog CAN hear you. He's just choosing to ignore you. 

Good luck!
Ken


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## Kay92 (Oct 19, 2012)

Thanks everyone. I forgot to mention that the owner of the park has a breaker box for the fountain to turn it off that he gave us permission to use. Would it be a good idea just to turn it off when he goes for it?


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

> The hardest part of this is to limit the command to ONE. We all want to give our dog the benefit of the doubt and request they comply again, and maybe one more time. Each time the timber of our voice changes, gets tougher, louder, stronger - more angry. Remember - the dog CAN hear you. He's just choosing to ignore you


I used to catch my husband doing this and then just using the stronger tone to have Cash comply. I told him he was teaching the dog that he didn't have to listen to him until he heard that tone in his voice. Slowly my husband came around to my way of thinking and now Cash listens to him in a normal tone of voice.


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## Vida (Dec 26, 2011)

'The slowest growing tree bears the sweetest fruit'.
Don't know who said it...


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

The point is, due to a hole in Chucks training he is missing out on playing at the park. Even if you turn the fountain off you still haven't fixed the recall issue. It maybe the fountain today and something else tomorrow that keeps him from coming back to you.
No matter what route you take I would start working on it today. If one method of training doesn't work then try a new one.


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