# Running distance... for a pup



## ryanothebeach (Apr 26, 2013)

Hi 

Anyone run with their V? mine is 4.5 months... have been holding back on taking her running for a couple of reasons.
It took a while to get her to loose leash walk/jog and I was told their joints need to develop first.
I usually take her on one or two 30 min off leash walks a day so she prob covers a number of miles on her own already.
Took her for a test run today 4 miles, didn't event pant, she was like, so why are we running so slow old man? let her off lash after 4 miles and she still went zoomies till I reeled her in. 
Was thinking of slowly increasing up from 4... has anyone taken them past 5 miles at a young age? 
Definitely don't want to do any damage but but she seems to be well capable of more.

Thanks
Ryan


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## ryanothebeach (Apr 26, 2013)

Julius

Ha, keep up, not quite... she shows absolutely no sign of fatigue or disinterest, in fact the exact opposite, she would be pulling me if I let her, I'm the one who has to keep up. & it's not a monotonous 4 mile run. mostly it's a variation cause there are a few places she can go off leash on the way.
Yes, she prefers to do her own thing, frolic, chase ducks and get full of mud, but she can't always do what she wants, that's part of growing up.
So to sum up what you're saying is, allow the dog to set the pace, if that's the case holding them back from a faster pace shouldn't be an issue.


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## adrino (Mar 31, 2012)

IMO a continuous 4-5 mile run at that age is damaging to your dog compared to a 4-5 mile run-sprint-stop-sniff-run-walk-sniff. That's what dogs do not a non stop run. Of course she can keep up with you, she's a high energy hunting dog. It's bred to run. But the question is do you want to risk a damage to her joints-bones-hip for the sake of waiting for her to grow up first? 
I wouldn't even start before 12 months because I've been advised that. My dog is 18 months old now and we still haven't done any continuous exercise with her but we are not runners anyway. I hope that for waiting an extra 12 months will help her have a healthy next 12-15 years.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Free Professional advice removed by Author.


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## mlwindc (Feb 8, 2013)

Thanks for chiming in Ken - my husband and I are both avid runners and I am itching to take Wilson running. He's 7 months and I have done really short "jogs" with him. I'm talking about the length of a city block. I will definitely wait until he's 18 months to start leashed runs on the bike path. 

In the mean time, I can definitely see how tempting it is to run with these guys. Wilson spent 1.5 hours full speed with a 9 month boxer this afternoon - the two were running and moving faster than I could imagine and yes, it does worry me how hard it much be on his joints. but, they were both off leash and took plenty of time to rest, drink, and waver the tempo. Now, three hours later, he's acting like he's never been outside today. So, they definitely are high powered machines!


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

PIKE is a field pup - he sets the PACE - I set the limits - @ 41/2 yrs and the rest of his life this will never change !!!! it is not a com petion on how far or how long !!! it is what is best 4 the PUP - U make the decision - at any age they will run till they DROP !!!!!!!


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

I am an avid marathon runner so I understand you wanting to get started with your pup. I am going to agree with the off leash crew. Miles started ''running'' with me at 6 months. I would go do my usual run, come home and grab him, then take him to a trail or beach for soft surfaces and I would let him run off lead. We did about 2 miles and he could stop whenever he wanted. Increased to 3-4 at 8 months, 6 miles at a year. Like a new athlete should, when he was under a year I rarely ran him consecutive days. He chose the pace always. Even at 16 months now I still believe he's growing, and while I did start running him on lead some of the time, we always do trail or beach and do as much off lead as well. 

I used to be a road marathon runner and have switched to trail running as its easier to have miles off lead on trail and it's better for his joints. We have the e collar now to keep him safe.


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## redrover (Mar 17, 2011)

Ditto what everyone else has said. Conventional and veterinary wisdom tells us that running a growing dog, on-leash, and especially on pavement, is bad for their growth and their joints. Larger dogs take longer to have settled joints and bones, and puppies should not be taken for "human" types of runs until those bones are done growing. The earliest I would start on-leash, on-pavement runs (regardless of who is setting the pace) is 12 months. I waited until about 14 or 15 months, I think.

If you take your pup to a field or the woods or on trails, it's totally ok for them to run completely off-leash (if it's a safe and legal place to be off-leash). They run in short bursts, stop, sniff, drink water, pant, and run some more. As Ken said, they will want to be out front, so be aware that if you're running on the trails and she's off-leash, she still might work harder than usual to keep up front with you, even if she doesn't show signs of fatigue. You're right--they probably seem and themselves feel capable of more, and it's incredibly tempting to take them on runs with you, even at a young age. But it's just not good for their growing bodies. 

And the following advice is for when you are able to go running with her. Don't forget to check out her paw pads when you do start running with her regularly! If she's not used to running on pavement, they can get a little torn up until they build up some toughness. And check the temperature of the ground before you go. Too hot for your bare feet is too hot for her bare paws. And if she's anything like my boy, be prepared for one or two poop stops on the way (usually just as you get a good stride/rhythm)--like some humans, dogs can get runner's trots too! If you're ever going to go running when it's dark, invest in either a light or a reflective leash/collar/dog pack. In the dark people don't always notice the dog at your side. Idiot bicyclists around here that don't use a light are especially prone to this, which is why Jasper has a light-up collar. That's a huge pet peeve of mine--not only does it make it difficult for them to see things, it makes it very difficult to see them! Get a set of lights! Grr...


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## AcadianTornado (Jul 30, 2012)

Thank you thank you thank you for all these comments and suggestions! I've posted a few times on this and as being a newbie with dogs and with vizslas I appreciate experienced knowledge on this issue. It sure is tempting to want to bring the pup running on leash or biking full blast as we know they are able to handle it stamina wise but it's all about their joints... It's funny as I was talking to a friend of mine whom I wanted to go running with and he told me that he can't go further than 5-6 k because he ran too much when he was about 10 years old... Makes you wonder a bit...


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## ryanothebeach (Apr 26, 2013)

Wow, didn’t expect such a large fervent response…
If you don’t mind me asking where is the source of this information that we are basing this on? Is there a study that you are referring to? Would be interested in reading it.
Yes every animal goes through a growth period, but what would then make dogs so fragile as compared to others? 
One thing that doesn’t make sense to me is if a dog runs fast stop go, on its own for 4 miles verses a slow jog next to a runner for 4 miles what’s the difference?
I don’t see this joint slamming that many of you are talking about, she’s not even running at my pace basically doing a slow trot. She seems to me to put far more pressure on her joints when she’s bounding chasing the other dogs in the thickets.
Btw WillowyndRanch I don’t wear shock absorbing shoes either, I grew up in Africa and run bare foot just fine, like other animals we use tendons etc. to absorb shock, not our joints.
And in the 4 mi, she trots through the woods and on the beach so most of it isn’t paved.


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## ryanothebeach (Apr 26, 2013)

Just as a reference, wolves can cover 50 mi a day hunting and the pups hunt with the adults at 6 months.
I'm not saying that working dogs develop at the same pace as wolves, but that's quite a range.
I would be interested in seeing some background information on this.


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

There is not much point to asking a question if you resist the response. Im not going to pretend to know the exact physiology but I would imagine it is very similar to kids, except vizslas don't tell you when they are tired or sore as much. There are exercise intensity parameters for kids, and those who exceed such as young gymnast also pay a high orthopedic price later in age. I'm not saying not to let the dog run, but there is a big difference in a kid running a marathon vs playing on playground. Same as there is a big difference in an off leash vizsla vs one strapped to your side on a lead possibly keeping an unatural pace to please you. At some age this is ok but not when they are growing. Your breeder must have educated you on this?


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

By the way, I would consider myself fairly lenient in the running topic. Most say no regulated running at all for 18-24 months.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/08/when-can-you-start-running-your-vizsla.html

Your dog. Knowledge is power. Main reason I post.

Except from:

http://www.vizsladogs.com/ARTICLES/running.htm
_
WHERE TO START

Your dog should be examined by your veterinarian before you start training together to assure that there are not underlying health problems that would prohibit running. Heart disease does occur in dogs, as do orthopedic problems such as hip dysplasi, cruciate injuries, and even stress fractures. Also, since your dog will be in contact with other dogs, it is especially important that he or she be up to date on all vaccinations. Your veterinarian will also be able to advise whether your dog is old enough to start a training schedule. It is best to limit a puppy to short jogs of one to two miles, whereas an adult may well be able to go four miles on the first day. Since different breeds mature at different rates, your veterinarian should advise whether your dog is ready. In general, most large breed dogs (retrievers, pointers, and shepherds) reach skeletal maturity between eight months and one year, while the giant breeds (Great Danes, Newfoundlands, and wolfhounds) may take up to two years.

Usually, by the time your dog is ready to start training with you, he or she is already neutered and has had at least basic obedience lessons. Taking an unneutered dog on a run invites potential problems -- males may make frequent stops to mark territory or have a propensity to start fights, and a female in heat may attract other dogs.

Your dog should be trained to heel so the two of you can safely negotiate obstacles, such as other animals, people, and cars. Your human running partners will not appreciate it if your dog trips them. You may need to teach your dog a new command for running, one to keep him going when he gets distracted. A gentle "c'mon" or "move" usually works well; "go" sounds too much like "no" and may stop your dog from moving altogether.

Just as you would not eat a large meal before a run, neither should your dog. This is particularly important in large, deepchested dogs such as Dobermans and Great Danes, as they are at risk for bloat or gastric torsion.(The stomach swings freely in the front of the abdomen and can twist with the weight of undigested food.) After a run, allow your dog to drink small amounts frequently before letting her drink as much as she wants, and always wait 30 minutes to an hour before feeding. She should be cool and relaxed before she eats._

_TRAINING WITH YOUR DOG

Most dogs can easily run three to five miles with minimal training since the typical runner trains at a pace that is a slow trot for a dog. If your pace seems to challenge your dog, slow down and let him work up to your speed. Never drag your dog at the end of a leash to get him to run. Dog mileage can be increased quickly compared to human, and it is not unusual to be able to work up to eight to 10 miles a day in three or four months.

It is easy to recognize signs of a dog's overtraining; a stiff gait or reluctance to run is a good indication that your dog needs a reduction in mileage. Dogs are not unlike runners in that they will run through pain and are almost always enthusiastic to get out, so it is up to you not to overlook the subtle signs of a problem.

Fortunately, running injuries are fairly uncommon in dogs. If you notice lameness, rest your dog for a minimum of 10 days; if it persists, take her to your veterinarian. If the lameness is severe and your dog does not want to put weight on the limb, consult the veterinarian sooner. Never give your dog any medication without first checking with your veterinarian.

Quitting on a run may signal a significant problem, especially if your dog usually pulls throughout the run. If this happens, stop and allow him to rest,then walk home (or call a friend for a ride).
_
RBD


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## ryanothebeach (Apr 26, 2013)

MilesMom I'm not resisting the response, I'm questioning it.


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## Saltwater Soul (Jan 17, 2013)

I run with my 5.5 month old Maddie -- but only off leash -- and on trails through the woods. I've been doing so since she was 4.5 months old. I only started running with her after walking with friends through the same trails with their dogs, I observed that the pack ran full time during our walks covering probably 2 to 3 times our distance, swimming in the bayou, etc. Now I will say that because of the terrain and my advancing age ;D that the pace is not that fast.

I think pace is an important part of this conversation. While I "ran" 4.21 miles this morning with Maddie, the elapsed time of the "run" was 50' 14" which works out to 11:56 min/mile or about 5 miles/hour. A typical male can make a brisk walk at 3.5 or maybe even 4 miles/hour. Now, I blame my age and the terrain (winding paths, obstacles, mud/water, etc.) for the pace, but it works well for my pup and she so enjoys the activity. She has time to sniff around, catch up, chase something, catch up, run ahead, wait for me, etc. I would not run with her on leash on hard surfaces for the reasons others have noted.

Perhaps you can find a suitable place to run with your dog off leash and at an appropriate pace. While I can run significantly faster on a proper track I have really enjoyed the change of venues and now prefer running with the dog in the woods to my previous practice of running on more traditional courses. I find myself going more frequently which is good for me and I have a happy, well conditioned dog.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Free Professional advice removed by Author.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Ryan - there are breeds out there that are straight line runners - the V is just not one of them - having a pup is not like a great marriage - the pup will always give - you as a owner have to give back - not TAKE !!!!!!!!


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## ryanothebeach (Apr 26, 2013)

Thanks for all your opinions, duly noted. I didn't mean to offend by questioning common opinion, but I just haven't seen any fats supporting this common perception that you have to wait a year or two before running with your dog. I'm sure it's likely there are some facts behind this? and I guess I'll have to search out the facts for myself.

Thanks


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## redrover (Mar 17, 2011)

WARNING: I'm about to get all science-y up in here. Of course, this is with the caveat that I am not a veterinarian, just a plain ol' biologist, and I'm spit-balling a little, mmkay?

Ryan--

I honestly don't think it's been well-studied. Mostly because ethically researchers would have to rely on a survey study. There's no way they'd get approval to run a bunch of puppies a lot and compare them to a group that didn't, because they're putting those dogs' health at risk. So I'm guessing they would have to rely on surveys, and I'm simply not seeing a ton of that out there.

Regardless, let's talk physiology. I don't know how much you know about bones and growth plate physiology, but here we go. The growth plate (epiphyseal plate, technically) is a cartilage plate located at the ends of long bone (bones that are longer than they are wide, such as a femur or a tibia). These soft, cartilaginous plates are only in young animals--as an animal ages, a process happens in which the cartilage eventually ossifies and forms new bone. Once the growth plates have completely ossified, growth is finished, and you see an epiphyseal line instead of a plate. When someone talks about the growth plate "closing," this is what they mean. Most growth in dogs occurs between 3 and 9 months of age. 

This is me just thinking, really, knowing what I know about growth and bones. Number one, because growth plates are very soft and spongy, they are also very weak. Overuse or what you might consider a mild injury, like a sprain, might actually result in a fracture to the growth plate. An epiphyseal fracture can be very detrimental. It might require expensive surgery to heal correctly, plus lots of down time. It can cause altered ossification of bone, altering the growth pattern of the injured bone. So one leg might be longer than the other, for example. This could be particularly troublesome if you're looking at bones that are connected, like the radius and ulna. Those bones have to grow at the same rate. If one is damaged and grows at a slower rate, it messes with the formation of the other bone, and this can cause a defect in the elbow joint. And so on and so forth.

Number two: a growing puppy's bone and muscle development should be coordinated. Exuberant running or overexertion (again, even if you don't think it's tiring her out, it can still be overexertion) might cause a muscle to grow stronger faster than a bone. Since body movement requires well-regulated control of muscles and bones, having a too-strong muscle pulling it around could be a problem for a developing bone. And then of course any injuries incurred at a young age could cause problems later in life, like arthritis.

You might think these things are unlikely to happen to your puppy. But better safe than sorry, no? She could even suffer a slight injury and not exhibit enough pain for you to notice, and then you keep running her on it, and bam--big problem. Also, puppies are clumsy, especially during a growth spurt. All it might take is her tripping on a crack or a tree root for her to damage her growth plate, and then you've got an expensive surgery on your hands, major downtime for recuperation, and the possibility that her growth will be forever altered. And that girl is going to want to keep up you with you, even if she's tired, even if she's not exhibiting signs that make you think she's tired. And while certainly all of these things might happen when she's just horsing around on her own, off-leash, forcing her to run at your pace (and I repeat, regardless of whether or not it seems to strenuous for her) will probably make it more likely. Jogging along with you is a highly stressful, repetitive movement, and she may not self-regulate until she's way too exhausted, putting unnecessary stress on her growing skeletal system. Repetitive exercise has been found to be detrimental to the growth plates of human children (with the warning that it's not always the best idea to extrapolate data from one species to another).

Anyway, that's my opinion on the matter. You may consider it an overreaction or being unnecessarily cautious. But I'd personally rather hold off on this kind of repetitive exercise for at least a year than risk either immediate or chronic injury from overuse at a young age. Let her regulate her own off-leash exercise, without her wanting or trying to maintain your pace. Puppies usually have more energy than sense, so it's really up to you to make these decisions about her health.


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

Great explanation Redrover. My area of knowledge is in human orthopedic physical rehabilitation, so it's interesting to see the timeline for development in canines as I am only knowledgeable in human anatomy. 

Maybe if I ever get the time I will expand my practice and credentials to include canine orthopedic rehabilitation and then I will be able to contribute more on an anatomy/ physiology based level. Then Miles could come to work with me!


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

Being a mild jogger and a person who goes on long walks and likes to hike....... when the breeder asked us about our activity level she said no running on the pavement until 18 months and you are sure they are done growing. By then they should have done with the joints and bones. I take her word for it but if x rays etc are proof too, I would tend to listen for the well being of your dog.


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## Henry (Oct 2, 2012)

I know nothing about what's right or wrong....but I can say that I have a 9 month old V. My intention was to wait 12-16 months. I chose to start her early running on the trails. Why? Because if I didn't...I would need to find her a new home. She is nuts with out it. My dog...my choice. I really hope it doesn't hurt her in the long run...but it keeps her in a loving home. She easily runs 4-5 miles every other day (all trails)...she goes nuts when she see's me leave the house and go for a run with out her.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Henry - just remember a V off lead and doing what a V does HUNT - for every mile you run the V will run 8-10 miles - rest and hydration - not for you - the V !!!!!!!


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