# Aggressive at 20 weeks



## akemna01 (Jul 6, 2017)

So glad I found this site! We have a 20 week old V. 
A few weeks ago he started to act aggressive when we try to take anything from him he knows he should not have. Toilet paper rolls, candy wrappers, plastic bags. You name it. He will growl and bite if we go close to him.

We had a trainer at our house today and after 20 minutes he told us Bentley was not safe to leave with our kids. He said he's been training for 20 plus years and has never seen a dog act this way at such a young age.

He tried to trade Bentley a treat for a plastic sack. It did not go good. He bit the trainer HARD! Is this something that can be corrected?


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

A knowledgeable trainer that has seen the dog firsthand, will have more insight than someone just reading a post. The key word is knowledge. 
But I agree, dogs that can't be trusted shouldn't be allowed to interact with kids.
I hope you have contacted your breeder.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I've been needing to make a post since last Friday . I will try and gather my thoughts, and do it today.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

texasred said:


> I've been needing to make a post since last Friday . I will try and gather my thoughts, and do it today.


take your time Deb :crying


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Akemna,
As TR mentioned, it is difficult to give a proper evaluation in a forum of many behavioral/training issues simply due to the medium. So much of what dogs communicate with us, and we with them is non-verbal. Without seeing things first hand anything we offer up is a guess at best. There is so much backstory that we don't know about your situation that to help I would need to interview you for an hour, then work with the dog in person to even begin to get an idea of what may or may not be going on. Kudo's to you to reach out to a trainer. I don't know what type of trainer you found, whether it is a house call pet trainer or a behaviorist. I can only offer these few ideas and suggestions, and in order of priority.

1. Immediately begin management protocols to make any known aggression triggers as few as possible. This includes crating the dog, limiting access to only certain areas, people and things. When I get dogs in with this history I put a 5 or 6 foot drag line on them so that if need be I can pick up the line first to gain some control before handling the dog.
2. If you have children, part of the management protocol is to keep them separate until further evaluation and training by a professional behaviorist is in place.
3. Contact the breeder. Explain the situation and ask for their help. This will tell you the quality of breeder pretty quickly. Be prepared for not much, if any help or advice, be thankful when and if they step up. 
4. If you feel the dog is dangerous, although it is not easy - your primary responsibility is to your family's and your well being and safety. The best long term result is generally a return to the breeder or if they won't take the pup back surrender to a Vizsla Rescue organization that has the experience to deal with many behavioral issues. Yes, this does cause emotional turmoil. *But that turmoil is far less when deciding it's best for your family BEFORE there is a serious bite incident*, that leaves long term physical and emotional scars and usually ends up a death sentence for the pup. 
5. Although we all love dogs and want to "fix them with that love" there are some dogs that for whatever reason are simply wired wrong and are truly dangerous dogs. There are others that are on the edge and will require lifelong, very experienced people to manage the dogs natural aggression. I don't know if this is the case with yours or if the household situation has allowed him to learn he can rule through aggression. This should be evaluated by a professional.

If you give more background as to the region of the country you are in, we can help direct you to resources in your area.

Ken


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

texasred said:


> I've been needing to make a post since last Friday . I will try and gather my thoughts, and do it today.


This is a picture of my left forearm, and it is a bite by a vizsla. I will have to have surgery to fix the tendon, and I have some nerve damage. 
I'm will make a separate post, but as I already told Ken feel free to share this picture with anyone that has kids.
If you are having temperament issues with a dog, it's best to not have them interact with the dog. Some things in life you can't take back. 

I'm in no way saying, this is in your pups future.


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## MikoMN (Nov 29, 2016)

Deb! Is this new? One of yours, or a rescue?


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

It happened Friday, and it was Cash. Not a rescue dog.


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## MikoMN (Nov 29, 2016)

I'm so sorry! I know that you have poured your heart into him. My prayers will be with you through the healing process (both physical and emotional).


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## akemna01 (Jul 6, 2017)

WillowynRanch we live in Northern Iowa. 

We got Bentley at 6 1/2 weeks. The breeder told us that is was ok to take him home at 6 weeks. I have since learned that we should have waited until he was 8 weeks. Bentley is our first dog. I have contacted the breeder they have not been any help at all stating they have never had a problem with any of the dogs and they claim they've been in the business for over 40 years. 

Bentley has been a wonderful dog with the exception of being aggressive over anything he gets that we have taken away from him in the past. We started out with just taking things from him when he's not suppose to have it. Over time he's learned that growling and biting allows him to control the situation.

Like I said he is our first dog however I really do feel like he knows he can get away with whatever he wants thru aggression. The first time he growled we did not handle it correctly (yelling at him then drug him away from whatever it was he had) over the last month he has learned if he does growl we back away. He knows he will win almost every time. I'm really not sure how to regain control at this point. 

The trainer we had at our house was a rescue dog trainer for 20 plus years. He trained rescue dogs with all different types of behavior issues. 

Our vet recommended we have him neutered. That is scheduled for Monday.


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## akemna01 (Jul 6, 2017)

The breeder also asked us if we hit our dog. Absolutely NOT! My daughter threw a toy at him once when he was nipping her and she got scared. It hit his eye that was the only time. That was months ago. 

We love our little guy so much I can't imagine having to give him up. I really hope we can fix this.


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## Anida (Jun 10, 2016)

I don't think your daughter throwing toys would have necessarily caused the problem. Especially since he gets aggressive when you're taking things from him not when he's being "attacked". We had a beagle that was only aggressive if startled and when he was being possessive of people. It didn't matter what we did but we learned to live with his triggers and just kept him out of situations that he would try to nip. He couldn't lay by our feet anymore because he'd try to nip if our kids approached and he wasn't allowed to just roam the house unsupervised because if he decided to nap and the kids decided to go pet him he would startle. We fortunately avoided any serious incidents, but we had to be diligent ALL THE TIME. (That might be something you want to think about for your future and if it's something you can commit to or if a rescue would be a better option for him, especially with kids in the house).

Our vet also recommended neutering him when we first started having issues when he was 3yo. We went ahead with it and I wish we hadn't. It didn't do anything for him behaviorally and especially with your pups age, I'd recommend waiting until he's older (2ish). You can do a search on the forums for a lot of info on neutering/spaying and the pros and cons.


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## akemna01 (Jul 6, 2017)

Also wanted to mention in certain situation he is very timid. He doesn't like to go outside by himself even to go to the bathroom. When the neighbors dogs bark he come running back to us to 'protect him'. He seems to get scared easy. Not sure if all V's act this way somewhat. He loves meeting new people and he is getting better around other dogs (not as scared).


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

While it's a natural reaction, it's a shame your breeder got defensive when you went to them for help. Even if they've never experienced this issue before, the 40 years of experienced they cite doesn't help you much if they aren't willing to work through it with you. 

I wanted to second what Anida said regarding neutering and link you to this study and to this article which breaks the study into laymen's terms. In sum neutering is not the quick fix for behavioral issues and can worsen them (particularly timidity), it puts your dog at increased risk for all types of cancer, and it negatively affects bone and muscular development. Hormones are important and it flabbergasts me how much vets downplay this in the interest of population control. 

It's your dog and your decision, but it seems to me that you haven't yet exhausted the behavioral and training options. I would do so before going forward with an irreversible surgery. Consult with a behaviorist and like WillowyndRanch said, get to the bottom of whether this is truly bad wiring/aggression or a situation created out of a willful pup and inexperienced dog owners.


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## MikoMN (Nov 29, 2016)

I am no expert on fixing behavior issues, but I have not seen any evidence to show that neutering will fix an existing aggression problem. I have seen some that show he is too young at 20 weeks.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

Vets always recommend altering the dog, and it rarely, rarely does anything beneficial for correcting behavioral issues. Especially since this guy is so young, the reproductive hormones aren't driving his behavior. But, the Vet gets a nice fee for cutting the dog and if it doesn't work, which it won't, it's no problem for them. Honestly it makes me a bit angry...

I'd highly recommend NOT altering the dog at this point. It could actually make things worse, especially if he's got fear issues.

I'd give this person a call for an immediate consultation. http://www.toppcaninesolutions.com/about.html She's in Ames, IA.

I also anticipated the breeder would tout that they have never had any issue with any dog in XX years. I call Buppkiss on that. ANY breeder of any length of time will have SOME issue with some dog that's been placed. They are animals and there are many, many things from environmental to hereditary issues that can and do happen. I'm sure I probably already know the answer to this question, but what does the contract say their responsibility is? (I wager there is no contract since they placed the pup so early). 

I cannot express strongly enough that loving a pup showing significant aggression issues and keeping it, especially a dog that is far beyond one's skill level to manage, is a dangerous situation. I suggest using one's head over one's heart.
Ken


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## Spy Car (Sep 3, 2014)

Neutering a Vizsla can be the worst option as it tends (strongly) to increase fear-based aggression and anxiety, which is the prime driver of dog bites. 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...vior-changes-when-dogs-are-spayed-or-neutered

Bill


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## Melinda Meyers (May 27, 2017)

Akemna01

I'm so sorry to hear that you are already dealing with issues. I am new to this forum, and a new V owner, (Cooper is just 6 months old) but I have had Dobermans over the past 17 years and a German Shepherd before that. I completely agree with Ken that you can't get the advice and help you need from a forum, but management protocol is super important. The only reason I am chiming in here is that my last Doberman had some aggression issues that we never did find the trigger. 

You said "Bentley has been a wonderful dog with the exception of being aggressive over anything he gets that we have taken away from him in the past. We started out with just taking things from him when he's not suppose to have it. Over time he's learned that growling and biting allows him to control the situation." 

I had my Dobe for 3 years and kept saying similar things. He's a great dog except for...... and he was and I have LOVED all of my dogs, but his aggression turned into a liability and he was dangerous. My breeder did take him back and I'm grateful for that. But the heart ache that I endured and am still working on was an emotional one. His aggression got worse the older he got and my vet said the same thing.... neuter him. It didn't change anything. The only thing for me that kept me in charge of any and all of the situations where my Dobe wanted to attack someone out of the blue was that I had strong experience in obedience training with him. I had dealt with multiple trainers and we trained every single day! I was the pack leader without a doubt! I believe that is of utmost importance with any dog. I'm already in training with Cooper and he is doing great. He did try the growling thing with me twice when trying to take away something he wanted, and there was no backing down on my part. No yelling, no aggression on my part....but firm controlled leadership. He didn't get to keep the item he wanted and growled about. Your dog MUST know that YOU and every human in your family is higher in the order of the pack than your Bently. Please please please get a second even a third opinion with professional trainer/behaviorist and work with your dog! I had 3 trainers tell me the same thing. They could not find the trigger, so for me it was a last resort to have to give him up and that was awful. Your dog seems to have a trigger... Do not let him win. I also agree to keep kids away until you have this under control. I don't want to scare you, but after what we went through and seeing the pics from texasred don't let this go and make excuses for your dog. Get it under control now while he is still young and work with him everyday! Good luck!

Melinda


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## Kaiser (Mar 31, 2017)

My breeder had my pup fixed at 6 weeks which i thought was way to early, i did not even have the option.. I wish they had not as i would have liked to have judged his personality on it...

I do agree with an early poster in that some dogs are just wired wrong just like humans and there if very little one can do to correct the behavior, it's no one's fault...


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

You need a very good trainer/behaviorist to evaluate him. Maybe even more than one. Possibly having them do a board, and train. So they can see the truer picture of his problems, and if he can be saved.
I say saved, because in most cases, a biters days are numbered. The problem is either fixable, or some get to go to a highly experienced home, where it is managed. We sadly know what happens to most of the others. For those that can't be helped, it's not the puppy's fault. Its either bad breeding, or mother nature can be so cruel. A breeder can do everything right. And for some unknown reason, a puppy's brain just does not work correctly. The big difference is those breeders want to help, and will take the puppy back.


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## akemna01 (Jul 6, 2017)

We ended up getting a shock collar as a recommendation. We have never shocked him however within 2 days of just having to beep him he started to back down. Thank God! Within a week he was a completely different dog. When we tell him to leave something or drop something he will listen right away then we praise him like crazy! A week ago it would have been a scary situation. We make him drag his leash around the house, we make him sit before we leave and come in the house, and we all including my kids hand feed him twice a week. Next week he will go to a boarding trainer for a month. Things have definitely improved including supper time when we eat he knows he has to go to his place (his mat) and stay there until we are done.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

PLEASE, For Dog's sake, DO NOT USE THE E-COLLAR FOR AGGRESSION CORRECTION!!!!! I don't know who gave you that advice, but it's HORRIBLE advice. Improper use, which is virtually guaranteed in a beginners hands for aggression is also virtually going to guarantee an increase in aggression. And for the record, I am certainly not against e-collars, we use them every day in training. If the board train place is the one who gave you that advice, RUN.

Otherwise, I'm glad he's coming around.

Ken


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Just for discussion 
Would you be against using the beep, or vibe of a ecollar for training a aggressive dog? 
I understand in the heat of the moment, someone could push the wrong button. Or decide to try the static when something has went awry, and make things even worse. Although you could replace the prongs to stop this from happening.


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## WillowyndRanch (Apr 3, 2012)

I think with a truly aggressive dog, pontificating on what if's in a written forum with no way to discern any body language or cues from the dog is nearly as likely to fail as beginners using aversives of any kind in an attempt to train a truly aggressive dog. Sorry TR, I just don't feel right going there on this subject in this format.

Ken


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I understand.


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## [email protected] (Sep 27, 2017)

Where did you get the Vizsla?


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## akemna01 (Jul 6, 2017)

We got him at Villard Vizsla in Minnesota.


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