# Help! - 4 month old male aggression towards owner over new items



## bryceandmichelle (Nov 28, 2011)

I really need some help. I am a new V owner (got "Finn" at 2 months). Things have been great until recently he has been very aggressive towards new bones and tonight over a pine cone! When I say agressive when I try to take it out of his mouth, he growls and shows his teeth. He doesn't let go and when I try to tell him to drop it or pry out of his mouth he won't let go. Yesterday I had to grab him by his neck skin and put him on his side and pry it out. Today I tried again and he snapped and bit my hand and caused it to bleed. The interesting thing is he wags his tail afterwards, I sure hope he doesn't think this is a game/fun. I am scolding verbally, but don't know what else to do. Tonight's experience actually caused me concern. All help is appreciated!


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## zigzag (Oct 4, 2011)

You had him for 2 months did he show any food aggression? He might be teething. I can't say much my male V is only 5 months but I got into his food bowl a bunch through out his puppy training. So far he is good. I'm just starting to see signs of teething. He wants to chew wood. Loves to chew fire wood till it splinters, that's my biggest worry right now.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

We have a game that we play with our 13wk old V where we play tug-of-war, freeze mid tug, say "drop it" and wait until she drops it to play with her again. We have had GREAT results with this method and she now drops w/e is in her mouth on command. The key is that you make it a fun experience. We also give her treats every now and then for doing a "drop it" when she has something in her mouth. This morning she had a tiny little ball of fluff in her mouth (cat toy) and when I said "drop it" she immediately opened her mouth and let it fall to the floor. 

It is worrisome that he growls when he has a toy, because that sounds like an aggression issue to me. Is he the same way with his food?


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## SteelCityDozer (Aug 25, 2011)

I hope others provide insight but we have a 15 mo male, neutered two weeks ago, so here's my two cents. When Dozer was about that age I thought he was barking and being aggressive know ow that he's older and truly challenging me I realize I was mistaken then. So if this is your first pup just be sure it's truly aggression. That word is thrown around a lot but does need to be taken VERY seriously. That said, you say he wags his tail afterward. Wagging is not always good. There's the happy playful wag and there's the "I'm top dog look at me do what I want" wag, IMO. But 4 mos is probably too young for that so it could just be that the intense moment has passed and now your pup is happy to be with you. They live in the moment. I would stop feeding bones and really good chews until your sure there's no food aggression. Then when you start feeding them, make him eat while you touch him and hold the bone. We still have to work in this anytime he gets a chew he's never had but like I've already mentioned Dozer challenges A LOT. 

hope something in here helps. Good luck.


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## charlie2011 (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't know if I am qualified to give puppy raising advice, so please take this as me sharing my experience, which may, or may not, be of value. I have a 6 month old (who I adore!), and around 4-5 months he randomly growled at me over a chew. I quickly told him to leave it and took the chew. However, I am so used to talking to him in a sort of "baby" voice, that instead of using a sharp tone (which was certainly warranted), I used this "happy baby" voice to show him that I wasn't trying to take his bone, and that I would give it back, ect. He immediately started wagging his tail, and I handed him the bone again, but didn't let go, and kept telling him what a good boy he was. He really got excited and happy with this type of interaction. Now, whenever he gets a treat, I make a big deal of what a good boy he is, and I always touch the treat and take it back. I also always touch him while eating, and again, I always use a happy voice so he doesn't feel threatened. I am one for positive reinforcement. I understand that there are times to use a stern voice, but in this case with the bone, I didn't want to be stern, as I felt this would have made him more hostile. This is my personal experience only, and remember, I am only at the 6 month mark! I hope this note finds you enjoying your puppy!


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

You must have your dog in a position where you can remove food from it's bowl or mouth at any time without any hesitation. If you can't, then you have not established yourself entirely as pack leader. If puppy does this, then remove whatever it is that he has growled over. Do not give it back. Later, much later, when you reward pup for good behaviour, once again, remove the treat/toy/bone whatever. If pup doesn't growl, give it back. If pup growls, put it away and try again later. Pup will soon learn you control the resources and are top puppy in the house. 

Some previous posts have also questioned if it is aggression in reality. V's can be very vocal and mine growled and still do, but it's not aggression. It's play. But, I can remove whatever I want from there mouth on command. 

Whether it be real aggression or not, I hope you get it sorted on way or another. Good luck.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

This is fun ;D 
At that age they may be stubborn but aggressive, I think not... just shake it off and carry on like nothing happened. Do not let him stop you or he will learn that biting is a way to get what he wants. This is mandatory!


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

bryceandmichelle said:


> Yesterday I had to grab him by his neck skin and put him on his side and pry it out. Today I tried again and he snapped and bit my hand and caused it to bleed. The interesting thing is he wags his tail afterwards, I sure hope he doesn't think this is a game/fun. I am scolding verbally, but don't know what else to do.


I'm making an assumption based on how you typed it, but were you holding him down with one hand, and prying on the pine cone with the other until he finally let it go just enough for you to drag it out?

If that is the case, then you're not pinning him properly, and he bit you because he's even more protective now.
This method is not for everyone. As you saw it can lead to a bite because it challenges the dog. The way it's suppose to work is the dog calms down and drops it on his own accord. 
You're not trying to overpower his body, you're telling his brain to submit. 
If you're angry, don't bother trying. It has to be done with a clear head. Deep breaths help a lot. You'll know you've come far enough when you can lift your hand or finger off completely, and the dog stays put until you release. It should be a calm situation, not a fight. 

If pinning him is not something you're comfortable with, then try some positive reinforcement techniques like mentioned above, and/or seek professional advice. I know he is just a pup, but there is reason to be concerned. Adult dogs who are aggressive don't wake up one day and decide to be bad dogs. We make them that way.

There isn't any one step that will fix the problem. It comes down to everything you do and how you do it. Making him sit before he eats, being able to put your hands in his food, and getting him to stop eating, are all things you should be able to do at his age.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

It doesn't sound like aggressive behavior as much as he's just being a little dirt ball.

One tip to remove something from his mouth.
Place one hand underneath his jaw and bring the other down over his eyes positioned so that your thumb and index/middle finger are acting like a pincer. Using your thumb and fingers push his lips into his mouth at the rear of his molars and command out. Use the hand on his lower jaw to push the object forward, and if necessary pinch inward with that hand also.
He has to either let loose of the object, or bite the insides of his lips to hold onto it.

Don't pry his jaw apart from the front. You can cause extreme injury to a dog doing this. His jaw is a hinged lever, and Archimedes Principle works both ways.

One more tip.
Biting, and drawing blood, is an automatic timeout. I mean an over the top reaction on your part. Don't hit him, or get physical with him,but put the fear of god into him.


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## bryceandmichelle (Nov 28, 2011)

We had never thought about his possible agression towards his food, so this morning we tried and yep, he growled when we put our hand on the bowl. So we took it away for a few minutes and then gave it back once he sat/calmed down. We did that twice this morning and plan to make it a routine. We will hopefully then try to put our hand in the food bowl, but wasn't going to try it first go around.


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

bryceandmichelle said:


> We had never thought about his possible agression towards his food, so this morning we tried and yep, he growled when we put our hand on the bowl. So we took it away for a few minutes and then gave it back once he sat/calmed down. We did that twice this morning and plan to make it a routine. We will hopefully then try to put our hand in the food bowl, but wasn't going to try it first go around.


I'm really glad you're able to see that there is a problem. 
Fixing this now will be much easier than when he's an adult. 

You'll have to try different techniques that work for you both. 
A good start is making him sit, and do some tricks for you before he is allowed to eat.


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## threefsh (Apr 25, 2011)

bryceandmichelle said:


> We had never thought about his possible agression towards his food, so this morning we tried and yep, he growled when we put our hand on the bowl. So we took it away for a few minutes and then gave it back once he sat/calmed down. We did that twice this morning and plan to make it a routine. We will hopefully then try to put our hand in the food bowl, but wasn't going to try it first go around.


I would take it a step further & make him work for every bit of food he gets. You can have him do commands for each handful of food & he should eat it out of your hand. He needs to learn that you are in control of the resources. I would also recommend that you take his toys from him & put them up where only you can get them after each play session. If you work hard on it now, you should start seeing some results very soon.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

An attempt to explain pack behavior and dominance:
http://leerburg.com/dogfight.htm


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## Vizsla Baby (Nov 4, 2011)

I pull at least 10 things out of my Vizsla's mouth every day. 

I am nonchalant about it. I just walk up to her, grab her mouth and pull out whatever piece of toy, stick, string or whatever is in her mouth. She's gotten used to the drill and just opens right up - never a fuss. Lately I've even been taking rawhides from her because she's making too much progress on them. She knows I'm the boss & gives it up.

That said, I've got a dachshund and it would take a crowbar to pry his mouth open. He doesn't growl or anything, you would just never get it from him if he really wants it. I think that is a breed standard for those little guys.

You could also start by pulling small things that he's not super interested out of his mouth - a tennis ball, a stick that you are throwing for him, etc.

Lastly, you should watch some Dog Whisperer episodes. You do not want aggression related to food to start. You are the boss, he needs to know it, not through your words, through your actions & body language. Do not approach him timidly or with trepidation - he will immediately claim his dominance over you - which is what he's doing with his growling. Approach him as if it's YOUR bone and you are taking it back. 

Good luck. 

P.S. Check with your vet to make sure that bones are safe for puppies. I have heard they are not.


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## Vizsla Baby (Nov 4, 2011)

A few Dog Whisperer links that might help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6UK116L5Gk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebNgnfBt7I0


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## bryceandmichelle (Nov 28, 2011)

Thanks so much for the help! I did see if he had some food agression and he did, so the next feeding time I fed him out of my hand and I controlled when to open and close my hand. Made him sit and stay for a few minutes between each "open". Then I put a little in his bowl and kept my hand in it, he growled and snapped. I then scolded him in a very stern and direct voice, "No and Bad Dog". One thing I noticed is this time I was over him scolding him (dominant position), where in the previous situation, we were more level. After a few minutes, he sat there and had the saddest look on his face and wouldn't even eat his food for about 5 more minutes. Since then, I have fed him and kept my hand in the bowl and telling him he is a good boy. He woof's his food down (always has) and wags his tail. I think I am making progress! He sneaked off with a dryer sheet yesterday and we got him and continued to make him drop it until he loosen's his jaws. It appears I have to be patient as he doesn't let go completely and only loosen's his jaws for me to take out after literally 5-7 minutes of me saying "drop it". Hope that will improve?


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

Sounds like you're making some progress already. Good job!

Something to keep in mind, if you say "drop-it" for 5 minutes then he lets go, it tells him that he doesn't have to drop until you say it for 5 minutes. Try your best to say the command once, and if he doesn't do it, make him. Either by trying what Gunnr suggested by using his jowels to help open his mouth, or try swapping the item for a treat. 
Say the words "drop-it", then "yes!"(very happy tone), just as he does it on his own. This marks the action with a word and it'll easy for him to remember that "drop" means "open up, and get a treat". This will come later, but you will smile huge when it does!

If he growls while holding an object, then no treats for sure. It can make things even worse by rewarding the unwanted behaviour. A strong scold will probably be enough now that you've got it working around his food.

As you've seen, patience is key. Keep it up, and you'll both forget there ever was a problem before you know it.


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## KonasPop (Aug 9, 2011)

Hi there, 
Agree with all the posts - some people are comfortable challenging their dog and others aren't or don't feel it necessary and use positive reinforce etc. YOU pick whats good for you of course and your doggy...

Only thing I would add that I didn't see is if its a treat, bone, food etc we "pretend" to eat, chew, knaw at whatever its is we just took away. The reaction from the dog should be what you'd expect - pouting, anxiousness, circles - we had a lab that did bronco circles for a few seconds. At your dogs age you should expect some amount of reaction...you keep chewing, making dog noises, enjoying that toy you just took away...usually we're on level ground all fours hahha - writing this sounds funny. Anyway, once all the pouting has stopped your dog will either leave (doubt this) or sit, lay down, become quiet whilst you enjoy that wonderfull something. As soon (and I mean on the button) they calm down lay down sit down and just kind of look at you - slide the treat back and walk away. Same for meal time. 

While we will put our hands all over our puppies while they eat, tug their ears (softly of course - but think of toddlers here), get our hands all dirty in their food etc. At the very early ages we also stop them entirely from eating and pretend to hover over the bowl and eat some food - you'll get the same reaction as above. You do the same steps. Until calm, they dont go back to the bowl. 

Last, do you make your dog wait or just let em plow into the food? There are some good vids of this on youtube, but its a practiced behaviour that at your age you dont even say a command for - you just sit between them and the full bowl. They'll try and urlacher (anyone?) you to get at the food. DONT make a game of it, just use the back of your and or forearm to easily guide them backwards until they stop making the effort. As soon as sit happens or just a stand and stare without you holding them back, let em at it. Don't say anything at this young. Eventually at 5/6 mo you can start working in "wait" "sit" etc...as an example Kona sees me pick up the food bowl and sits next to her food spot. she watches me get the food, set the bowl down (at this point she starts to drool ...she then has to sit through me feeding the cat etc., and then I say "ok" and she dives in. This has always seemed to just erase food aggression for us.

Hope this helps,


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