# The weirdest buyer/seller contract ever (red flags galore)



## BPatch (Oct 3, 2013)

As I've mentioned in other posts, I have had a deposit in on a pup since July, with a breeder in Los Angeles area. The website is professional and all of my email interactions with them have been pleasant. As a prospective Vizsla owner, I spent way too much time researching the breed, neglecting the importance of researching breeders. GMR was the first breeder I found with pups available around the time I was hoping to bring one home. But as I started learning more and more, I couldn't help but feel uneasy about my choice in breeder. 

There were things I wasn't really excited about:

Like the fact they charge $1,800 for a puppy (didn't know at the time of my deposit that was $300-$500 more than even some of the most reputable breeders). 

That the pup I had a deposit in on was born two weeks ago, but I still haven't seen any pictures. Which makes me sad 

They were going to charge me $500 to have the puppy shipped to Seattle, when Alaska Airlines told me the cost is $185. 

That the breeder has had three different Vizsla litters in the last three months (concerned about quantity vs quality). 

A news article I found from 2010 where GMR was investigated for animal abuse. It should be noted that all charges were dropped. That said, the investigators reported there were over 100 dogs on the property during their investigation. This again caused concern about litter volume. 

But the straw that broke the camels back came yesterday...

As I mentioned, I sent in a $500 non-refundable deposit back in July. Yesterday, I requested a copy of the buyer/seller contract to review. I looked it over and was totally disheartened to read the following...

"The Seller will extend this guarantee for a period of two (2) additional years form the date of birth, if Buyer supplies the dog with NuVet Plus for Canines® & Life’s Abundance Dog Food on a daily basis."

Basically my pup would have only come with a two year health guarantee if I agreed to feed my dog a specific dog food and provide her with a specific multivitamin every day. The breeder tracks this by requiring you order the supplement and dog food through a third party that they can track. I asked if the breeders made a commission on these sales and they confirmed they did. 

That was all I needed to hear. I felt like I was being told by a car salesperson that my vehicle warranty will only be valid if I fill up my gas tank at their specific gas station. 

I mean could you imagine. What if my dog was allergic to the dog food the breeder required be fed? Or what if I wanted to start feeding raw? The contract wouldn't allow it! 

So I walked. Fortunately, GMR is refunding me my deposit after I indicated there was no way I could sign the contract in its current language. 

Bummed that the hunt for a future V continues, but am glad I can use my $$$ to support a breeder that I feel good about.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

BP - shame U did not get 2 this forum - GMR has been on here & discussed - now search the forum 4 what 2 look 4 in a breeder & owner - Very lucky U got the deposit back - if it takes a year - better 2 have a great pup from a great breeder - trust me on this - 16yrs from now U will understand !!!!!!!


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## BPatch (Oct 3, 2013)

It was actually the forum that kick-started the process of rethinking my breeder. I think it is important to say that I think the breeders really do believe they have the dogs best interest in mind, and they were nice during my email interactions with them. But, the contract and other things just felt like I was being nickeled and dimed to death before I even got a dog from them. 

p.s. I saw a previous post where you asked RBD if they made comissions on their NuVet requirement. Now you have the answer


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

I would have walked away from that contract too, but I think it's worth noting that $1800 isn't an unrealistic amount for a vizsla on the coast. V's in the midwest tend to be less. Also the shipping charge while a little high, probably also included the cost for a crate. Airline reg ones can be pretty pricey. 

Good luck with your search! If you need any help with what to look for in a breeder just ask.


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## BPatch (Oct 3, 2013)

Alaska Airlines sells new crates you can buy at the terminal (water and food bowl included) for $75. I confirmed because I was trying to wrap my brain around how there were $300 in additional charges above and beyond the puppy flight fee.


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

Good for you dropping that contract. If you look at their webpage, GM has had 3 Vizsla litters and 3 retriever litters within days of each other. How anyone can watch 50+ puppies and provide good care is a mystery to me, and if that doesn't scream puppy mill I'm not sure what would. The forum has discussed this breeder (as previously said) and with a little more searching you will see that owners on this forum have had health issues with their pups from GM. Their recent advertisement for "Christmas Puppies" makes me sick as it's clearly just a business for them. 

I'm so happy you have changed your mind and this forum is a great resource to help you find a better breeder.


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## cooperman (Oct 26, 2010)

Sorry to hear bp of your tribulations, wish you luck in your hunt.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

This whole thread is disheartening. :-\

Closing statement made on my blog "Redbirddog" about GMR in May of this year after I visited them.

_"Make up your own mind on breeders. When visiting the breeder, look and see for yourself. Take NOTHING for granted.

Knowledge is power. Objectivity is mandatory to get the best Hungarian Pointer.

If after visiting the breeder you don't like what you SEE, don't get your dog there, who will hopefully, eventually, be a healthy and happy true companion for 15 to 20 years."_

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2012/05/internet-vizslas-beware.html


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

I'm really glad you were able to walk out of that. That contract is a joke and the fact that they try to do that to people is disheartening. Whatever happened to a good ole hand shake and the breeder doing the right thing? 

As a rule, in rescue, we refuse to adopt out dogs over the holidays because it is generally a bad time to introduce a new family member. 
When breeders advertise their litters as "Christmas" litters it drives me crazy. 
Clearly their sole purpose is to make money. How unfortunate.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

V-John, Thanks for the reminder. Christmas is getting close and maybe people are thinking "We'll get Junior a puppy for Christmas". Those reading this *please don't*.

And as far as "Whatever happened to a good ol' handshake?" That disappeared in lawyer rich and common sense poor California years ago.


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## gmk (Dec 21, 2010)

V-John said:


> I'm really glad you were able to walk out of that. That contract is a joke and the fact that they try to do that to people is disheartening. Whatever happened to a good ole hand shake and the breeder doing the right thing?
> 
> As a rule, in rescue, we refuse to adopt out dogs over the holidays because it is generally a bad time to introduce a new family member.
> When breeders advertise their litters as "Christmas" litters it drives me crazy.
> Clearly their sole purpose is to make money. How unfortunate.


John, unfortunately in this day and age of litigiousness a hand shake just doesn't work. I would prefer do to it that way, however there are always people out for something for nothing. We did refund Brandon deposit, even though he had signed and acknowledged that his deposit was _non refundabl_e. 
As to Brandon assertion that his puppy would only be guarantee IF he used the dog food & vitamins that we use here is incorrect. Our contract states that we guarantee our pups for the first year under the California Health & Safety code sec. 122125-122220, which anyone that has breed 3 litters or more in previous 12 months must use. We offer an _additional 2 years_ of guarantee if our clients use the same food & vitamins that we do. It's that simple, Brandon has chosen to misinterpret our contract. 
As to charges for shipping, it would seem that Brandon expects something for nothing. In addition to the cost of the crate, there is the Vet health check & certification, transportation to LAX (1.5 hour drive each way) gas, time, wages etc. If I lived across the street from the airport I could certainly ship a dog for much less, however since we live the rural portion of Ventura County that is not an option.
MilesMom to answer your questions as how we can take care of that many puppies, I have 4 employees who's sole job is our nursery, attending mom & babies. Our dogs are attended too from 6:00 am to 10:30 pm. In addition to ourselves I have 12 employees, including a certified groomer, 2 full time trainers, there is always someone here on our property with our dogs. And yes this is a business. Our animals are very well cared for as Rod as saw when he visited us.
I just wanted to correct the false statements made by Brandon regarding my contract. I am sure that this will again ignite a whole barrage of angry & hateful comments by the members of this forum. Have fun flaming me, it is rather sad that for some of you that will be the highlight of your day.


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## BPatch (Oct 3, 2013)

To be absolutely clear, I did not misinterpret the contract. The $500 non-refundable deposit was given to GMK because their website specifically says on the puppy page...

"Our Vizsla puppies for sale, come with a 2 year health guarantee against genetic hip, heart & eye defects."


It is not until 3 months AFTER I gave them my deposit that they disclosed that the health contract is only good for ONE year, with an optional two year addition if I agree to feed my dog the specific vitamin/dog food they require. At best, I was misinformed by the health policy based off the information I had when I provided my depsosit. Had they shared the requirement to buy the food/vitamins (which they collect a commission on) I would have never expressed interest in their puppies, saving both of us time and frustration. Unfortunately, what they say on their website, STILL does not match what they require potential buyers to agree to. 

All of this can be verified by visiting their own website (scroll down towards the very bottom)....

http://www.goldenmeadowsretrievers.com/vizslas/new-arrivals-vizsla-puppies-for-sale/


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

They do have a link to a Sample bill of sale contract on their website.
It clearly states 1 year guarantee.
It also states they will extend it for 2 additional years if you feed the breeder approved food and vitamins.


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## BPatch (Oct 3, 2013)

Which contradicts the information on their puppies for sale page that clearly states all puppies come with a 2 year health guarantee.

That statement is not at all true. They come with a 1 year guarantee and an option to purchase 2 more years. Essentially an extended warranty. 

Reminded me of the last time I went to a car dealership and how at the last minute they try and up sell you. 

The contract is clear. As is the information on their puppies page. The issue is the two documents contradict each other. Opening the door for confusion like this. 

I'm not out too flame the breeder. Like I mentioned they have always been pleasant. But there were just too many developments over the course of our business relationship that caused me to second guessmy decision. No breeder should want to sell, nor should a buyer want to buy, a puppy unless both parties are completely clear on what is expected of each other.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

BPatch.

Find a hobby breeder you trust. You dealt with a commercial professional breeder. Is he wrong to do what he does? That is up for your personal opinion, but there are 1,000's of puppy mills in this country you could get a "cheaper" dog from. I'm trying to be nice. 

If you didn't go down FIRST and have discussions then lesson learned. 

Best to take these discussions off-line IMO. But someone may think I am biased because I actually went down and looked and saw for myself. I never bought a dog from them only did it, and took a whole weekend to do it, to see what a professional commercial breeder looked like. 

This thread is a rerun from this spring.


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## BPatch (Oct 3, 2013)

.


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## BPatch (Oct 3, 2013)

RBD, 

Please note that I never accused GMK of being a puppy mill or abusing their animals. I read your posts about your visit and was put at ease with my my decision to use them as a breeder because you had good things to say about your visit. 

I felt it was important to share the contradictory information that appears on their website, and ultimately lead to me hunt for a new breeder. I almost feel like you are telling my I can't share this information because I haven't visited the facility. But a site visit doesn't change the fact that they have conflicting information on their site and that they collect a comission from their two year health guarantee. 

If I can't share that information with other prospective Vizsla owners on this forum, then where can i?


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

BPatch said:


> The issue comes from unclear expectations based off contradictory information on their website. Wanted users of the forum to be aware of this contradiction so they don't end up disappointed like I was. If I can't share that info here, then where?


I think is valid. 
The one commendable thing that they did was to refund your deposit and they certainly didn't have to do that. Given that they are in this business, solely to make money... Make no mistake about that. Which is unfortunate, in my opinion, but that is strictly my opinion. It is up to the puppy buyer to be informed on what sort of place they are purchasing the dog from. 
Another thing that people need to be aware of is, how certain terms are defined by different people. For example, I would never consider a 3 month old pup to be "started". It is almost comical for the prices that are indicated for a "started" pup, but at the same time, they were able to get said price. More power to them. 
I noticed the "finest of field lines" and yet, there was nothing on or about the dogs that indicate any sort of field lines to my knowledge. 

And the food that they recommend? Holy cow. Expensive. 

As a field trial competitor, and hunter, it really disheartens me to see such a massive scale production of vizslas with such little field behind them. 
As a rescue volunteer, it depresses me. Not in that these folks are keeping their dogs in a poor environment or anything of that nature, but rather the sheer volume of pups that are hitting the ground. 
I can't speak for the price, or anything like that, as who am I to fault someone for pricing a pup at something that they can get? 

As far as puppy mills, I guess it is all relative to the definition that one uses to define puppy mill.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

BPatch, I wish you would have gone down, that is all and I really did try to write my "review" in a way that people never took it as a recommendation (I did like them as people). They run a well run BUSINESS. 

V-john, I wish only people who got Vizslas would use them in the field. The trend toward "townhouse-sized" Vizslas, that seems to be being supported by some "hobby breeders" makes me sad for the breed. I only call them "Hungarian Pointers - hunting dogs" when people ask. More and more people just want pets and not hunting dogs in the Urban areas of the United States. What you and I want is the cream, but most just want the milk. I believe most "pet owners" just want a even-tempered and healthy dog. For that, I can't blame GMK for supplying that segment. Not my lifestyle, but who am I to judge?

The breeder that used Bailey as a stud would never sell a pup to any buyer that did not come down and have a face to face meeting of at least an hour and then she would tell them she would get back with them.

The forces of supply and demand are high for quality Vizslas. 

I'll be pheasant hunting this weekend behind my boy, accompanied by one of the puppy owners from the last litter. He will be bringing one of the girls. We will introduce her to "the field" (but not the gun as she is too young). I'm planning on having a great time. This will be the eighth time doing something like this. I wish more breeders would do this with their "puppy people".

BP, good luck on your search and please go see the breeder first and be honest what you want and how the Vizsla will fit into your lifestyle. 

RBD


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

I think that we agree, it's just that how people define "quality" is different. 
And, this is a large reason that there is such a large division between field and "show/pet" lines... People don't nurture that field aspect in it and attempt to keep it in their dogs, but rather breed to make money and sell puppies. Some folks don't think that field dogs don't make good pets (which we all know to be false) or some simply don't care. The betterment of the breed isn't the priority, the bottom dollar is.


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