# Raising Vizsla with Chickens



## Newdog

Per my earlier post I am getting my Vizsla on Saturday. We live on 6 acres where we also have chickens that roam free. Any advice on making the chicken/dog introduction. Also, do you think that bird training will be dampered if the dog is around Chickens that its not spposed to harm?


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## redbirddog

Newdog,

Don't recall if you are getting a new very young pup or adult Vizsla. I used to train up in the country with my first trainer. ON the property he had chickens. We used a training collar on Bailey after he had chased the chickens. The trick of a training collar is to get the dog to *"believe"* that the thing he was chasing shocked him.

We did this with goats, cows, deer and rabbits. Each time when Bailey came back it was _"What happened Bailey? Did those chickens shock you?" _ [/color] and paid him no more mind on the subject.

Cows, goats, chicken, coyotes, deer and rabbits all don't like Bailey and shock him when he chases them.

I can promise you some will disagree with this method. I would be VERY CAREFUL.

Hope that is of some use.

Rod a.k.a. redbirddog
http://redbirddog. blogspot.com


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## kellygh

I don't disagree with Rod's method, but please heed his caution! If you have no V &/or e-collar experience, then I would defer to an experienced trainer or choose another method. It is very easy to crush a V with an e-collar in the wrong hands (even with the best intentions)!


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## Linescreamer

Keep the dog away from the chickens at first. I'd say after he settles in and adopts you guys as his family, work on building confidence daily. Vizsla's can be skiddish and wimpy as my son would say; if they are not confident in their surroundings. After a month or so; when you see a solid foundation in his responce to standard obedience commands, you can work on the chicken control. I don't know of another way to do it without an e-collar. As stated, be very carefull and start on the lowest setting and try to work with someone who has trained gentle dogs with an e-collar. That means...if they only trained a German short hair to hunt on an e-collar; find another trainer because they may fry your dog in one session.


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## datacan

Do you mean GSPs are tougher or more stubborn than Vs?
I tried my friend's electronic collar collar on Sam and it worked wonderfully at the same setting. My friend owns a 5 year old GSP and it's the only way he can let the dog run freely.


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## redbirddog

> That means...if they only trained a German short hair to hunt on an e-collar; find another trainer because they may fry your dog in one session.


Absolutely Linescreamer! I'd watch some guys last season with their GSPs using the collar during hunting. A Vizsla will fold up and quit if the collar was used that way.

Books are written about the use of the collar. 
RBD


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## Linescreamer

datacan said:


> Do you mean GSPs are tougher or more stubborn than Vs?
> I tried my friend's electronic collar collar on Sam and it worked wonderfully at the same setting. My friend owns a 5 year old GSP and it's the only way he can let the dog run freely.


Yep. Most dogs can take it in stride and handle more current then a V. The other problem is with a Vizsla they have the memory of an Elephant. The next time they smell or see the collar you maybe looking for them under the truck or behind the sofa.  A lab on the other hand will forget about the shock in minutes. These are generalities you understand but, you get the idea.


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## Kobi

Just wanted to say I've had no problems using an e-collar. *I am certainly not an expert, and my experience is limited to one dog*, but I'm glad that I took the chance on the e-caller.

I did spend the money to get one that is adjustable (1-100, Dogtra iQ in case you are wondering), and with a vibrate feature. At a level of say 20, most humans can't even feel it. I started Kobi out using it on a setting of 30. The most he has been up to is around 60. 60 will usually make him yelp, depending if he is interacting with a human or another dog. With another dog aorund he can ignore a lot of stimulation. Of course, if I catch him off guard with a 30-40, he'll still sometimes yelp. They're sensitive, but in my case, he hasn't been any worse off for it. He does not fear/fight against the collar being put on, and his recall is now 100x better (without using the collar to recall).

I think if you're very cautious and invest in a GOOD collar, you'll be okay. I would suggest something with at least a 400 yd range (we're talking about a Vizsla, 100 yards only takes 10 seconds), rechargeable battery, and a page/beep/vibrate feature so it has SOME functionality other than just plain shocking the dog. Kobi responds very well to his "pager" (the vibrate feature). 

As far as power of the collar, I've had friends "test" it up to 100, but only on their thumb, not their neck. When I hit them at 100 they dropped the collar! I don't think you'll ever want to turn it up that high!


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## datacan

I see, under the truck is no place for a dog.
I read somewhere there are 2 kinds of Vs. One is smaller and the other is bigger. Mine is the bigger type. Both parents are from Hungary (5 year gen bloodline thing). Perhaps there is the difference.

I noticed the long memory thing. There is a difference between what he knows and stubborn behavior. 

Don't have an e-collar but I think the correction level must match the momentary drive intensity. High drive mode needs higher correction level.

From what I read there is no standard on the shock level. TT has a smaller scale compared to Dogtra, I think. I will look at Sportdog as well but lean toward TT.

Off topic but I tried to see how long it would take for my V to check in with me once off leash. The most it took him was 28 seconds. So if he runs at 100 yards in 10 sec Sam will be 300 yards away in 28 sec. Assuming he keeps running away from me.


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## harrigab

not let them loose with Ruby yet!!


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## ceecee

Sunny gets so excited whenever she sees me get the e-collar out. She knows it's outside time for her. And we never have used it more than a few times. A buzz works now instead of a shock. 

I very reluctantly bought the collar but after every other option had been explored. It's been great for us.


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## threefsh

I wanted to bump this because we're going to be getting chickens in the next few months. Riley *just* turned 6 months, so I'm not sure when it would be appropriate to start on the e-collar. I thought for a while that she wasn't too interested in birds... yesterday she swam out into the bay after a bird. 8) Is it dangerous for them to be around the chickens when they are tiny? We will be getting chicks and they will have to be inside under an incubator light to keep them warm. Any advice from those who have experience with Vs and chickens would be appreciated!


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## harrigab

I've never tried an e-collar on Ruby, but she comes with me everyday to feed our hens, and she sooooo wants to get in there amongst them,,,for the wrong reasons as far as my hens are concerned :-[


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## texasred

As long as the chicks are in the house keep them in a separate room with the door closed. Mine are around chickens on the weekends and know they are off limits. I still wouldn't trust them with the chickens alone. Ive seen my female point one and I'm sure if it took off she would have considered it flushing. Then it would have been game on. Mine are all ecollar conditioned and know the leave it command. They also had to learn through the ecollar that chickens are bad news. But if they have 25 chickens milling around them in the yard it would still be tempting to them if I was out of sight.

My male had one of the chickens try to eat out of his food bowl with him. He snatched it up with his mouth, turned and set it back down behind him. The chicken took off running and he went back to eating.


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## redbirddog

> My male had one of the chickens try to eat out of his food bowl with him. He snatched it up with his mouth, turned and set it back down behind him. The chicken took off running and he went back to eating.


TexasRed,
What a great visual I got! Bailey had to be conditioned to chickens because the first training we did was up in a farm area. We turned our backs for a minute to talk and the next thing we saw was Bailey heading full tilt for the farmer's(very old Hispanic gentleman) chickens. Chickens flew everywhere as 8 month old Bailey was in bird heaven. I apologized deeply for my dog's poor manners and gave the man $20 for his trouble.

E-collar was ordered that afternoon.

RBD


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## texasred

I bet he had a smile on his face, tongue hanging out and tail wagging.


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## Ozkar

I know you guys over in the U.S. have this love of E-collars. I will just say this. Here in Oz, very few are sold and very few are ever seen on dogs. Not 1 of the hunters I know have or ever will use an E-collar on there dogs. They believe it's the lazy man's way of training them. 

I totally disagree with the use of them. I realise that those who use them believe in them and that is there right to do so. But, I always think of this when I am training a dog. "Would I like that done to me?" If not, then find another way.

I have managed to train my dogs without them so far and will continue to do so. I would rather work for another 6 months getting something right, than use an E-collar and have it sorted in a week. 

Note well, even those who use them, who know how to use them well, all offer the same disclaimer whenever they recommend them. Don't do it unless you KNOW what you are doing with an E-collar.

That to me says they are fraught with danger. 

Once again, I am not criticising anyone who uses them, I am just not a believer in them. So any time I see a recommendation, I will most likely offer an alternative viewpoint on it.

Some one also commented on them being used on a GSP and that A GSP is a hardier dog than a V in this respect. I own both V's and a GSP. My GSP is very no different to my V's. She is just as effected by harsh commands as the V's are. 

Once again, if you choose an E-collar route, please be careful.


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## threefsh

How would you recommend training a V to leave chickens alone without the use of an e-collar? Riley is showing more and more that she has a strong prey drive. We have taught her the "leave it" command, but once she's locked onto hunting a small animal all bets are off.


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## texasred

No argument from me on ecollars. Each person has the right to train their dog in a way the see fit. Just because I use them does not make me think everyone has to.
My grandfather raised and trained English pointers and never used an ecollar. His dogs were excellent hunters and had great manners but his way of training would shut a vizsla down. Before I say this and upset everyone he trained many years ago and this was acceptable practices at the time.
To answer your question on killing chickens.
The dog would be whipped with the dead chicken til he was scared to go near them. 
The dog won't recall in the field.
The dog was peppered at a distance with bird shot.


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## redbirddog

> To answer your question on killing chickens.
> The dog would be whipped with the dead chicken til he was scared to go near them.
> The dog won't recall in the field.
> The dog was peppered at a distance with bird shot.


And only the pups that showed promise to being excellent hunters lived to see 12 weeks old.

Ah, the good old days. Good things some things do change. ;D

Oh, wait, didn't I say I was a conservative? ???

RBD


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## datacan

Ozkar said:


> Once again, if you choose an E-collar route, please be careful.


Absolutely, but the correct term is "stimulation" not "shock". And it is only introduced at the lowest level only when the dog is 100% familiar with the command. In fact, it is a way of reaching out and helping the dog.
The real secret to E-collar is *intermittent stimulation*. Sometimes there is stim and other times there is none.


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## Ozkar

Threefsh, to answer your question on how to stop them. It is what I always say. Repetition and consistency. Just keep at the "Leave it" and recall commands. After my cockatoo incident the other month, I went back to work on getting the recall solidified again. I didn't like the fact that they locked on and blocked out the recall. I know it's there instinct, but I believe even a strongly driven dog, should be able to be recalled even when a bird is right in front of them. Even one they KNOW they are allowed to chase. 

I had Astro "Leave" a Wallaby yesterday. The Wallaby had been hit by a car, made it's way 500 metres off the road into the bush with it's broken leg and had popped itself under a Blackberry bush to hide from predators. My dogs found the scent and were off. I followed and soon enough they showed me the wallaby. They both wanted it, but I gave a strong leave it and they did. As we had to wait around for an hour while the shooter came to put it out of it's pain, the dogs several times made movements towards it and I just kept recalling them. To there credit, they did. That's a big thing, when there is an injured Wallaby lying right there in front of them to be eaten!!!  

For anyone who doesn't know what a Wallaby is, it is a smaller version of a Kangaroo. Same physical attributes, just smaller and usually darker in colour.


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## virgilsmom

We do not hunt our dogs so I'm not sure if this will help. Our vet said it would be confusing for the dogs to hunt and be expected to leave chickens alone, plus we don't hunt. 

I've had two V's (at different times) and a V cross that have lived among free range chickens and ducks for over 14 years.

When the dogs were young I would walk them on a leash past the penned chickens 6-7 times a day and tell the dog "no look" every time he looked at the chickens for 4-5 weeks. during that time the chickens were let out late in the day and V was penned so he could see chickens walking around. Next both were let out together for a few hours a day and watched closely. If V pointed at chicken he was told "no look". Slowly V was trusted more and more until a V and a V cross are outside all day with 30 chickens and 6 ducks milling around. I don't let my small chicks out with the dogs until they are maybe half grown or have a mother with them. I have 1 bantam silkie rooster that will occasionally chase after Virgil and Virgil will back away
every time. Virgil still likes to make cats move faster than they want, but has never hurt one. Virgil and Victor (the cross) will keep raccoons and other critters away from our farm.

As I said before we dont hunt, so this may not work for a hunting dog.


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## texasred

virgilsmom said:


> We do not hunt our dogs so I'm not sure if this will help. Our vet said it would be confusing for the dogs to hunt and be expected to leave chickens alone, plus we don't hunt.


I would suspect your vet doesn't hunt.
These dogs are trained which birds to hunt in the field. As pups they will point song birds but with enough game bird contact they start to ignore them in the field. Mine are only around chickens, ducks and geese on weekends during the hunting season. They have learned for the most part that they are off limits. These same dogs hunt quail,chukar, pheasant, dove, ducks and geese. When hunting the game does not belong to them. It belongs to me. They are to retrieve it to me with a soft mouth. I lay retrieved ducks right next to where I have my dog sit. He pays no attention to them. The fun for him is the retrieve.


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## texasred

redbirddog said:


> To answer your question on killing chickens.
> The dog would be whipped with the dead chicken til he was scared to go near them.
> The dog won't recall in the field.
> The dog was peppered at a distance with bird shot.
> 
> 
> 
> And only the pups that showed promise to being excellent hunters lived to see 12 weeks old.
> 
> Ah, the good old days. Good things some things do change. ;D
> 
> Oh, wait, didn't I say I was a conservative? ???
> 
> RBD
Click to expand...

I should have stated before that I in no way shape or form approve of this type of training.
We can reminisce about the good parts of the good old days.
Still be a conservative and have running water and electricity.


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## hobbsy1010

Hi threefsh,

I've loaded some videos for you to see.

Our dog Brook was told to return to the house when he paid too much attention to our ducks and rabbits. Supervised with the ducks until about 4months and 9months with the rabbit. He only spends short periods alone in our garden. Seemed to work for us.

The ducks run the garden, the rabbit is a sort of candy machine to him, I follow you poop.

E collars are in fact illegal in Wales and any one found using one will be prosecuted. Spray collars tend to be used by the local dog trainers for problem dogs only.

We don't hunt, but don't feel that close contact would effect his training when we eventually start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RR8WLjb-Rg&feature=channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obhwr86o1gY&context=C3f8d0e5ADOEgsToPDskLILHvgomYC518isY4MGRFt

Hobbsy1010


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## threefsh

hobbsy1010 said:


> Hi threefsh,
> 
> I've loaded some videos for you to see.
> 
> Our dog Brook was told to return to the house when he paid too much attention to our ducks and rabbits. Supervised with the ducks until about 4months and 9months with the rabbit. He only spends short periods alone in our garden. Seemed to work for us.
> 
> The ducks run the garden, the rabbit is a sort of candy machine to him, I follow you poop.
> 
> E collars are in fact illegal in Wales and any one found using one will be prosecuted. Spray collars tend to be used by the local dog trainers for problem dogs only.
> 
> We don't hunt, but don't feel that close contact would effect his training when we eventually start.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RR8WLjb-Rg&feature=channel
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obhwr86o1gY&context=C3f8d0e5ADOEgsToPDskLILHvgomYC518isY4MGRFt
> 
> Hobbsy1010


Wow... that's pretty amazing. I guess we will try first to use "leave it" and time-outs if she goes after the chickens. She is pretty good with the cats, although lately she's been trying to chase them more often. I can definitely see her hunting instinct becoming stronger.


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## hobbsy1010

Hi threefsh,

Don't get us wrong, his hunt/point/ retrieve instincts are still very very strong when out in the field but in the back yard he now has a 'guard' instinct over the pets and we think that he accepts them as part of us as a family/pack.

Just the other month, he was out with us when from nowhere he'd got hold of a live maybe injured wood pigeon and brought it back to us and sat and presented it to us!!

Ooh yeh, the duck (Oliver, a male Call Duck) was bought with that broken wing along with his partner 'Nancy'. He's a bit of a freak but rules the garden!!!  

Hobbsy


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