# 6 month old lunging/barking at children for no reason all of a sudden!



## Shanbrier

Two weeks ago our puppy Drake loved kids and strangers alike. All of a sudden on walks/parks ect he will see a child and lung/tail between leg/bark and growl. Hes NEVER been aggressive but I fear he may bite out of fear. It is totally debilitating and heart breaking for us. Anyone else?


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## harrigab

does it happen if Drake is on the lead/leash? or is it when he's running free? Ruby is a helluva lot more cranky with people if I have her on her lead, I might add that it's only when people come full on that she doesn't know.


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## Shanbrier

Both! Yesterday we were at the dog park off leash and he was fine. Then two kids walked in and he spotted them and lunged, barked and growled. Then later in the day we were on a busy restaurant patio and he was leashed. A little girl approached and he did the same thing. So embarrassing and out of nowhere.


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## Lindsey1420

I had the same thing happen a couple of weeks ago with my newphew. I had a posting on it. Jack actually bit my newphew. I had Jack around my neice and my brothers girlfriends little brother and Jack was fine. After reading some other postings about this it seems like this happens around 6/7 mos mark. I wonder it the age has something to do with it? This is consider their tween years by what I am told. Just a thought.


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## Ozkar

Boundary pushing with someone less dominant than you is what it sounds like from reading your post. You need to inform pup that you give the permissions when it comes to bites on anything or anyone. In other words, take control of pup, go back to making pup earn everything and reinstate or ramp up the training regimen depending. Correct pup if it makes moves that indicate a bite might be coming. Over excitement can sometimes make this happen also, but either way, you need to let pup know it's not on. I use positive reinforcement, but a bite needs a strong and swift correction. Nothing physical though, just your firmest NO. But, immediate and escalated above normal corrections so that pup realises that it is not OK.


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## datacan

Prong collar and a short leash the dog drags around. When it growls tug on the leash downward, if he growls or snaps at you it means you need to increase the force of the tug. This will solve any problem quickly and efficiently. 
At this age they seem to test where they belong and it is in their genes to want to take the lead.


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## Linescreamer

Keep him under your control. Make sure you are the pack leader in every way. Yes, they do test these boundaries and it's our job to let them know what's acceptable. He most likely was startled or unsure of their intent; so in his world, you bark and show strength. Once he understands you are the lead, he will look for your reaction and take his ques on how he should react from you.


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## jjohnson

Our 9 month old starting doing this at 10 weeks, believe it or not. We met with a behaviorist, and in our case, it is a deep-seeded genetic fear aggression (his mom had to stop showing because she did not like the judges touching her). I have to disagree with posts that your puppy is trying to assert some kind of dominance over kids. The way you describe it, it sounds like exactly what our puppy does occasionally if we push him too far and he feels scared and "cornered". The leash adds to the fear and "cornered" feeling because he feels like he can't run away, so he thinks he has to defend himself. I can't say I am the expert because we haven't "fixed" our dog yet, but we are in the process of working on it! I can only speak from our own experience, and I know how upsetting it is when your cute puppy snaps or growls. 

The growling has gotten better with positive reinforcement. Whenever we walk, I have a pocket full of treats. When we pass a scary stranger, I immediately treat and give praise. I really watch my dog's body language, and I know when someone is making him nervous (hair up on his back, for example). If the puppy looks at the stranger and doesn't growl, he gets a treat. Over and over again, with every stranger we see. We are at the point now where usually he will pay attention to me, and not react to strangers. 

While this doesn't magically make him enjoy being around strangers, it does teach him to look to me when he is nervous. If he does react to the stanger, ie growl, lunge, bark, etc., I know that I took it too far and I turn around and try to get away. Sometimes we still have these setbacks and it is frustrating and embarrassing. 

I do scold him when he does growl (it is such a natural repsonse) but I have been cautioned against spanking or acting too harshly. (Just a quick "NO!") Our behaviorist told us that if you hit the dog or hurt it, you risk the chance of him not only being scared of kids/strangers, but also learning that when they are around he gets spanked. So I guess, I can't say that I know our method totally works, but I think our puppy has improved so far. It's a long, slow road, and a lot of work. I've finally coming to grips with the fact that our dog just hates strangers (especially kids), and probably always will, so for us it's a matter of managing his fear so it doesn't turn into hurting somebody.


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## jjohnson

I should add that along with the above, we are also trying to show our puppy that we are the pack leaders. This is supposed to help him realize that he doesn't need to protect himself, or us, that we have that job. So that kind of goes along with the other posts above. I think this is probably the hardest part....one thing we do is feed our pup only by hand...he doesn't get any food that isn't "earned".


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## polkan

> We met with a behaviorist, and in our case, it is a deep-seeded genetic fear aggression (his mom had to stop showing because she did not like the judges touching her)


jjohnson, if I recall correctly you mentioned that the litter from which your puppy comes was small. I hope I'm not mixing this up with someone else's case... It may be interesting to get in touch with the other owners, if you can, to see if they also have fearful puppies. You can insist on getting in touch with them via the breeder, given your situation.

I'm only saying this to clarify the comment on "genetic" fearfulness. 

To the best of my knowledge, while temperament is indeed hereditary, the specific genes for it haven't yet been identified. To claim that something is genetic in a particular, real-life dog, without having proof is really an assumption, which may have huge consequences - such as resigning to the "reality"....

It's very hard to counter-condition an 8 months dog, but it can be done (Patricia McConnell documents what she's doing in a similar case on her blog). 

And I suspect that if the breeder had to stop showing the Dam because she didn't like strangers, that breeder probably did _nothing_ to socialize the puppies while they were still in the whelping box, because the mother would have turned any prospective buyer away. They probably haven't seen anyone until after they were weaned.

My breeder has prospective buyers visiting puppies once a week since they are 3 weeks old, not counting her own family, friends, etc. Imagine their reaction when confronted with a Dam who's afraid of strangers and sitting on top of the litter. 

I'm not saying it's not genetic in your case, but it seems to me it may have more to do with the breeder not having taken proper care of the litter. If that's the case, then I think you're doing an admirable job on counter-conditioning and I hope you don't give up! 

Maybe the Voith method I mentioned in another thread is something your behaviorist is familiar with.


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## jjohnson

Polkan-I think you are right about the breeder. Of course it isn't 100% genetic, but in our case, it is strongly genetic based on the history of the mother and based on our puppy exhibiting these signs at 10 weeks. I mean, he full on growled and snapped at a 4-year old girl when he was 10 weeks old. That is pretty early for learned behavior, isn't it? 

But yes, while the breeder assured us he socialized the puppies, they live out in the middle of nowhere so I doubt there could have been THAT much socialization. I have the contact info for the brothers of our puppy, but haven't contacted them. I figure we have the puppy we have, knowing whether or not his brothers are like this really won't help us that much. Also, I think we made the mistake of over-doing it with socialization immediately when we brought him home. We had no idea he was this fearful, and we probably exposed him to way too much, way too fast, and gave him more reason to be scared. I wish we could have more work directly with our behaviorist, but at $200/hour, we had one long session and are trying to work on the counter-conditioing ourselves. I find the whole logistics of it all to be the hardest part. I wish I lived close to the other people with fearful V's so that we could get together and all work on it together!


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## Ozkar

If a breeder I intended purchasing a puppy from did not allow me interactions with the litter several times while still in the whelping box, the deal would be off. I like to make sure I can lay in the whelping box with mum and the litter, take a pup or several pups away from her, all without her being uncomfortable. Ozkar's mum was amazing to watch. The way she kept hte pups clean alone was quite awesome to see. If you have never had a litter, or been involved, watching mum in the weeks after the birth is pretty cool stuff. They are brilliant mothers.


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## hobbsy1010

Have to agree with Ozkars last post.

Don't know about the bit laying in the 'Welping Box'!!!

Always looked a bit Chaotic when we always visited!!!

Got to say though our 10 year old daughter was straight in there,
like it was 'Pass the Parcel'!!  



Hobbsy


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## Moose

I didn't read all the replies- but our dog did this as a pup too. we had a baby, and Moose was about 6-8mos old at that point, and was fine with babies but children aged 2-10yrs he'd lunge, bark, growl, cower...etc. 

never did anything to them, and he got over it after more socialization with kids on walks, and busier activities. He was also fine with kids as each of our babies were born and they went through different stages. 

Vizslas sometimes have the fear of the unknown, and it gets the best of them. But they can also be "bossy". Might be their way of bullying the kids into submission, telling them that V is bigger, stronger, scarier therefore "the boss" ?


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## luv2laugh

I know this doesn't help the OP, but it is really helpful reading about this. Oso is 6 months old and has always been so happy-go-lucky, it is heartbreaking to think he may just change around kids. 

I'm going try to be preemptive and start taking him around playgrounds more with treats (we don't have kids) and making sure I'm the dominant one in the house. When we first got him we did lots of hand feeding, waiting for his water bowl, we walk in the house first, etc. We still do this sometimes, but have gotten a lot more relaxed.


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## redbirddog

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2009/07/raina-and-jada-super-dog-training.html

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2009/07/fear-of-toddlers-overcome.html

Hope these help. Good luck. Chloe is better, but we always keep a watchful eye around the grandkids.


http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2011/07/lily-honorary-vizsla-pup.html

RBD


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## jld640

Hi luv2laugh- The playground thing works. Find a bench and sit for a few minutes. Most of the parents know what I am doing there. The kids usually give us plenty of space initially, then a few brave, older ones will ask if they can pet Savannah. Sometimes the parents with younger ones will ask if their kids can pet her, too. I assume they are trying to make sure their kids aren't afraid of dogs.  Savannah stays on her leash and by my side, so after a few minutes, she is no longer as fun as running around and the kid-games start again. It's pretty funny watching some of the fearful kids suddenly running close to Savannah before they realize it.

You may also want to time some of your walks when the neighbor kids are out shooting hoops or playing catch. That way Oso can see some of the same kids repeatedly.


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## threefsh

luv2laugh said:


> I know this doesn't help the OP, but it is really helpful reading about this. Oso is 6 months old and has always been so happy-go-lucky, it is heartbreaking to think he may just change around kids.
> 
> I'm going try to be preemptive and start taking him around playgrounds more with treats (we don't have kids) and making sure I'm the dominant one in the house. When we first got him we did lots of hand feeding, waiting for his water bowl, we walk in the house first, etc. We still do this sometimes, but have gotten a lot more relaxed.


My hubby went to a BBQ last weekend with his "Zombie Squad" group (disaster preparedness forum) and there were a bunch of kids there. He had one of the kids take her for a walk around the park and she apparently gave a 2-year old a thorough face-cleaning.  It's all about constant exposure and rewards for good reactions/behavior. If your are invited to a BBQ or party with kids, ask if you can bring the pup with you. Pass out treats to everyone (especially kids) and have them make the dog do things to earn them.


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## jjohnson

I also do the playground thing! 

I would just really be careful about having kids give the puppy treats directly. I was advised against this until we do a lot more work and really trust our dog. Both kids and puppies are really unpredictable, and its not worth it if the child makes a fast move and scares him or something and he bites the child. That's what happened when our 10 week old pup snapped at little girl. She was giving him a treat (he was very scared), but then she suddenly lunged at him to pet him, and he freaked out and snapped at her face- not worth having that happen again!


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