# The "wild" and the "farmed"



## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

been mulling this evening (between doing family jobs) about what if we all shot wild game without exception? I'm a mere pup (it was my 50th birthday sunday last), but I'm pretty sure that when I was born the world the worlds population was less than half of what it is today. My dad didn't take me hunting till I was about 7, and that was fur and fish that were plentiful then. With an expanding world population Mother Nature's larder isn't stockpiled like it used to be. For millenia we've been hunter/gatherers so what is wrong with raising game to shoot for sport pursuits rather than focusing on ever dwindling "wild" stocks? Don't get me wrong I'm in no way an "anti" but I like to think that I'm (albeit belatedly) a conservationist. Our dogs can still hunt point and retrieve as long as birds get up and fly so that's fulfilling their needs.
It'd be great if wild stocks were sustainable and we could all go out and fill our game bags without reserve, but let's face it, wild stocks are depleting. Unless of course I'm misinformed.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

http://ideas.time.com/2013/11/27/hunting-isnt-the-answer-to-animal-pests/

Very interesting article in Time on this. Author of the article was interviewed last night on TV.

Quality question as we enter 2014 with a world population of 7 billion. 1963 population 3.2 billion.

Neighbor is a commercial fisherman out of Alaska during the fishing season. He has his own boat as does his father. During most of the year he lives down here.

According to his feedback the numbers of fish caught have been small the last couple of years.

Watched "Happy People- A Year in the Taiga". Now that showed wildlife hunting in the purist sense IMHO!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1683876/

Happy trails and trials,

RBD


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Wild & pen - PIKE & I hunt them all - you want a great pup ! put birds on his nose - you would have 2 live in wonderland 2 C nothing but wild birds - in Ky you can set & harvest preserve birds a month before dove season - and 1 1/2 mo after duck season - fun 4 the pup & fun 4 me - trials & hunt tests - set birds - but the pup is working - tower shoots - so much fun - a well conditioned pen bird IE: large flight pen & used 2 the weather - almost as fun as a wild - the longer you can put the pup on birds - the better the pup & you will V !! the GREAT thing about wild birds - you teach the pup 2 hunt the cover where they will V !!


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

13 days remote Alaska July 2013 227 Kings and Coho landed I release most 1 Rod  ;D :

the other 2 lads caught 56 as well :?

Homer Seward and Whitter

Lings to 60lbs

Red snapper like Fire Crackers to 25lbs 

and Butts to the duller crayons Halibut on light Gear to 150lbs" 

Life earned work benches still win some fun

never saw a boat but 3 in 13 days  ;D

Year 1920 to present the 5 percenters earn all wild fish and game numbers never changes tougher years goes to the 1 percenters 

while the others pay and try some fun

2012 fat greater Numbers then above 2006 Light out"

No luck Great supporting Gear guts nuts and talent

Few luck out Remote 

We had triples Hooked up same waters 33x in 2 days 

What was the question again with grace ?

Pics help support the typed words ;D


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

so are fish stocks on the increase in Alaska, Rudy? Atlantic salmon here in the UK are really hitting a downward spiral with hints of mandatory catch and release next season, not even an occasional "keeper" for the table. If that pans out Ruby won't be getting many adventures up the river next season, double edged sword though as I'll try and get her on grouse moors till pheasant season starts.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

R VVe doing ? Feather or Fin - LOL !!!!


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

Harr here are the facts

wild Kings are down YES 

I still found 56

Coho are slightly down as well we landed over 100

Reds were reduced this year still in the millions

Chums we could not keep off are gear

I was the only boat for a full week that ported Kings they could not even process

facts pull the Nets let them spawn bingo You have fish on 

all my Fish I ensure the best genetics and dna at least having a fighting chance to make there great dna waters holy waters  and release 

others just kill it all

building on streams pressure on reds/eggs HAS HURT US SOME AS WELL 

we talk at the docks some swim poorly a choice not a chance for a pirate it be 

The Glaciers are in rapid decline this hurts some as well

as warming waters mess them up

but a true earned pro can still land over 100 salmon a day with the correct 3 lads gear, safety choices and the correct boat and how she is set up matters more then most and incoming tides and proven waters

shrimping was lights out as well

raw numbers down yes

are boat lights out until the Boys called Nordic my arms cannot move again

I said grand lets eat ;D

The last Real pictures in spawning creeks hurts the most by sportsman snagging :-\ :'( :

I did thump a few of them very closed waters mate it was refreshing fun for Fish and game ;D


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Bailey is a versatile hunting dog but I don't think he can catch a fish. 

REM, I'll stay with wing.

But putting our dogs on birds is what is all about. If I had to just hunt "wild" to feed my family here in California, we would surely starve to death.

With 38,000,000 Californians; it sure is crowded. 

The U.K. population is almost 70,000,000 in an area not much bigger than our state and *much *smaller than Alaska.

Alaska's population is 71,500. Not so crowded. 

We do what we can today and tomorrow where we live.

RBD

Interesting discussion.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

R said:


> R VVe doing ? Feather or Fin - LOL !!!!


just general I guess Ron, it was more a question about substainability really and are we doing enough to leave wild game, feather,fur or fin to future generations


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

Pro's still stack

matters not so much were

I have 96,000 real pics 6 hard drives to share all of what mother God Blessed me

This is not bragging this was me sharing the 2 others were blessed 

I love Idaho, Big Sky Country, Montana , eastern Oregon, eastern Wa , Wyoming and many more they were all stacked year 8 on . 

The earned work bench provide me views 1 percent will see

come out and take a peek it changes your Views and core for life

at least mine 

None came from a PC.

great Risks great teams, communication skills, trust and bigger passions and many have died trying mates and friends  :-[

but were just having some fun


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Har - Rudy - missing my POINT - Conservation is a + - without our youth in the field or stream - there is no FUTURE - this is payed 4 by hunting & fishing licences - so if you have a V - buy both - if you never hunt or fish - your children will have a chance - DU - Pf - RME - QF - GF - join these groups - meet great people - put there money where there mouth is !!!!


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

350 pics maybe 500 boys and girls with kids without choices and options or chances hunting and fishing supported by me 

I can load them all For Less 

Rem how many can you post kids not your blood you in them with them doing this acts and choices ?

Point is my life 

that's my Big mouth sweat and blood and some tears wide open and In Bro 

We can start loading 5 at a time  

some were blind we made them see and feel it some


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

If I only shot wild my dogs would have had little to do 3 years ago during a drought. Their training would have been set back a entire year on upland. When a species numbers drop so low is it really necessary to shoot what would hopefully carry the breed over. I think I may have shot 1 or 2 wild that year, and questioned myself on if I should have left them. Quite a few other hunters and landowners felt the same way. They closed their leases for the season.
Numbers were on the increase last year on the coastal plains due to rain fall at the correct time. This year Texas is seeing quail where they haven't been seen for years.
If you want to be a purest and only shoot wild birds, you better be prepared to skip hunting on the lean years.
This has a lot to do with why I waterfowl and dove hunt.
I can't go shoot a limit of wild quail or pheasant every weekend of the season. 
I have a friend that puts on released hunts, so I could go do clean up with the dogs just about anytime the weather is cool. The dogs love it and its fun. I can't compare it to hunting wild. Seeing a large covey rise is a 10 in my book. One or two released birds rising rates about a 5 to me.
The dogs don't care and point just as hard on both.

If you have the opportunity to hunt wild, don't pass it up. Its amazing.
If you only have released in your area, take the dogs out and hunt them. You will be glad you did.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Rudy - 25yrs of coaching youth soccer - 40yrs + in BSA - a Big brother 4 20 yrs - if you only count pictures - missing the POINT - it is the children that come back 2 U & say THANK YOU - SAVE 1 - U may save them ALL - How do I know this ? BSA changed my LIFE !! back 2 the forum - about U or me NO !!!!!! about the V !!!!!


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Rudy - U R A HARD Azz - but MOM & POP did raise a GENTLEman - Kudos 2 them !!!!!


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## tknafox2 (Apr 2, 2013)

I'm sorry if I have missed some of the point... I couldn't read all of this thread, it lost continuity for me... to much personal gibberish... made no sense.
So... I was very interested in the original topic, I am very retired and my hubby and I have toyed with the Idea... mostly after to many glasses of wine... of farming birds and operating a hunting lodge. As I say... we toy with the idea... but I find the thought of raising Quail, Pheasants, etc. somewhat exciting, and even purposeful. We just can't come to an agreement of where this endeavor should take place. He is from MN and I am CA born and raised.
I am very interested in your thoughts on hunting farm raised and set free birds. Would it take any pleasure away from you hunters to be out shooting birds that were raised just for that purpose????


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Tkn - answer 2 your ? - a risky busness - takes land & time - I'v shot on preserves N _ S & W - a great time - U have 2 set up 4 trials - fun hunts & set hunts - sporting clays - 5 stand - provide pups & handlers - feed 4 raising game birds has tripled in the last 5yrs - I shoot a lot @ Elk Creek in Owenton KY - they hosted the US Open sporting clays a few years back - takes a lot of money - then 20mi down the road - 6mile creek - raises his own birds 4 set hunts - a great time 4 a great price - if you have the money - go 4 it - PIKE & I will come !!!!!!!


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## tknafox2 (Apr 2, 2013)

Wow!! Thanks R E... since I have never experienced any of it... I think for now, I will let it remains in the dream state, and keep it over wine and cheese. 
I do worry about the abundance of the birds. My mom lives in AZ where the Quail used to run everywhere, this past year, I saw so few I was really taken aback. I know it isn't all human hunters... the Coyotes get their share. I saw a pair (mom & Dad) with one little chick, usually they have a whole brood.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Tknafox2,
Yeah the thread did go south.

With PETA and HSUS hard at work here in California to stop hunt clubs make sure you read the signs. In the California Delta area, five years ago we had six hunt clubs. We are down to two and the fields are very full for only a few months a year and the birds are very expensive. A 20 bird card costs over $600. 

Corporations used to sponsor hunts. Budgets are cut for entertainment. Once upon a time companies that wanted our business would take folks on trips, sporting events, and a dozen other "perks". Those are gone for the most part.

Walking field trials are held at Hastings along with sporting dog club events. 

I've had the opportunity to hunt wild birds in South Dakota. I sure preferred it. But 24 hours of driving each way and the cost of fuel and other travel expenses makes it for a every five year adventure. Sure won't spend that kind of money every year.

Pen raised pheasant that are planted just before you enter the field is boring. O.K. to do a few times to watch your dog slam on point but if you have a good dog, it just is like finding Easter eggs planted in short grass. Free released birds are better but predictable on where they are going to go. 

Also in hunting, I come across a wounded bird about every other time out. A bird that was grazed by shot but kept flying. Bailey goes on point but the bird doesn't fly. It is sad to come across these birds. We take these birds in to the club house as a no charge bird.

Hawks take many birds. We come across many piles of feathers as we watch a hawk take to the air. Coyotes if in the area take birds.

If I want to work Bailey on birds I have very few options and the birds do taste very good. I hunt for my dog and if a planted bird is all that is available, that is what we'll do. 

38,000,000 Californians and maybe less than 100,000 dedicated upland bird dog hunters in the state. The bird hunter rights are an easy target and we are being targeted by the anti-gun and animal rights groups. If California falls, one state after another will fall.

I'll hunt as long as I can, where I can afford to hunt (either by cost of the hunt club or the cost to get to hunting areas). 10 years from now I am assuming we will have followed the U.K. in gun control.

Not what you wanted to hear I would guess. Maybe other parts of the country are better for the hunter.

Enjoy another glass of wine.

RBD


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

One of My Great bro's just took out this bull Elk today He taken 20 or more like this pressing age 72 remote wild and free 

Nevada Remote as heck and Bull went 380 scores

Few earn one like this 

it took a week of hard core to get here Done 
The 1 percenters


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Tkn - posted many times about joining a great sportsman's club - this Sat - a fun hunt @ Cedar Creek - $4/quail & $10/pup they set the birds and you hunt 4 30 min - they have the best bird fields in US - ordered 30 birds 4 family & friends - set 10 @ a time - can not wait - how cheap is this - duck hunt 2 times a week & steel shot is $25/box - find a club & start drinking Bourbon !!!!!! one of the great things 2 come out of Ky - we also have great wines !!! LOL


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

I am on hardlines guidelines and with great respect nothing got side tracked to a outside thinker?

its spot on to the few 

100 years fish game birds, big game all of it the numbers change of late yes more pressure hurts even Man 

and this is written with great respect as words don't make reality

real pictures with words and supporting numbers can. 

Baseball will be first to help some not hurt

the Pitcher gives me up the pitch before it is throw?

95 percent that pitch exceeds the lights and parking lots 

Boxing I will have no defense hit me in the temple Pre fight Your Done 1 punch with 3rd grade punching skills pre fight. 

Wild and free 95 percent consumers Hunters pay and buy all the permits and stamps and more

Less then 1 to 3 percent take all the Trophy Game these facts have never changed

matters little the days or dates . 

The Numbers always stay the same not the game or fish so many aspects impact this 

Hunting is a hard tough sport with great risks to folks some days greater risks to the Mates Wild raw and free .

There are none pre setting dull birds and learning curves are impacted and the only Guides who support this choice make it for $ 



It Took My Great bud almost 73 years young over a week hunting 24-7 to earn that record Elk"

this is a hunt 

In a fenced Hunt and Yes You can buy these :'( :-\ there very sad places and actions the hunt would be under 16 minutes 

whats learned or earned in this choice?

Do what ever you choose Love large release sites are not Real Hunting 

There a service for folks without options 

they are picking up birds that are so predick to almost zero natural responses 

the 1 percenters great years the 3 percenters prove this as well

as wild freedom where we flex not so much bought sure some can to a few

its always earned 

the gut check tells you this

227 salmon 13 days 1 rod and I was not even trying

I was sharing

there are many wild locations that support great fish and game and BIRDS 

and 100 percent truth each year were loosing some :-\

Have a outstanding day

Game numbers do change some years very bad

the 1-3 Percenters Get There's For Less

they earn it they risk all of it

just like the rings of pain

its mano to mano a purity brutal blood sport as long as Don King not watching" : ;D

Have some fun 

choices not chances

Just share some


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

I use pen raised quail to train my dogs in the offseason and prepare them for the trials. It's just too difficult to control all the factors when I'm training with wild birds. When I'm training, I need to have as much control over all of the factors as possible and wild birds don't always participate how I would like them too. Another thing, is that when I'm training, the wild birds need to be left alone so they can nest in peace. 

I hunt wild birds as much as my schedule allows. Three months the season is open, and I try to have dogs on the ground 30 days. 
Last year the birds were so scarce, I'm pretty sure that I am able to count on one hand the number of birds I shot. But that's ok, the dogs were out and so was I. I'm not looking to shoot birds, I'm looking to work dogs and run dogs. That's the difference, I suppose between a hunter and a dog man. Nothing wrong with either. 
I also don't look down upon those that hunt Pen Raised birds as long as they are open about what they are hunting. Don't try to tell me you are hunting wild birds when you are hunting pen raised birds. They are simply two different animals. 
Bottom line. You are getting your vizsla out to hunt and do SOMETHING with it. That's the most important thing. 
It doesn't matter to me if you are doing agility, tracking, retrieving, obedience or field trials or whatever. You and your dog are getting out to do an activity that you both enjoy.


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## tknafox2 (Apr 2, 2013)

Back to the "Dream" I'm guessing CA, because of all the hard line animal activists, wouldn't be the place for my dream retreat, but I was down in the "Blyth" area not to long ago, and it used to be a very active farming comunity on the Colorado, or near the Colorado river. It is turning into a ghost area, as the farmers are leaving and the land might be supportive of a bird farm?? ( again, I've not researched, just dreaming). 
My stepson, has a ranch in Acton CA that was nearly swarmed last month during dear season... pretty scary!
My neighbor stopped to chat and told me he was going Elk hunting, but I haven't seen him since, and don't know if he was successful... Boy... sure would love to have a piece of that!!
REM... your Cedar Creek sounds wonderful... but it is in Alabama right... Oh Well! I was kind a thinking about something a little closer to home. 
V-John... I was thinking, that the farm raised birds would need to be released regularly so they could get a little taste of the wild, and maybe enough of them would survive, that they could actually procreate in the wild. 
You are right too, that is is really all for the dog... if it wasn't for the dog... I'd be dreaming of a quilting frame.

I really appreciate all of your input, and not laughing at me out loud!! I can't help where my brain takes me when I am outside playing with my boy, and just imagining all the potential, and fun... the makes me have these crazy dreams.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Tkn - PIKE & I R in KENTUCKY - Our wildlife department consider released quail that live a year as WILD & they R - our club contracts 3000 quail from a breeder in Tn - the birds are well conditioned - he has 2ac flight pen - the vast majority fly and do not get pegged on the ground - I use twotoms here in Ky 4 pheasents - same deal - he has a 3ac flight pen & the birds are great !!!!


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

Well, a couple of things. Obviously a very large flight pen is necessary to have good flight conditioned birds. 
I have a friend who raises three or four thousand birds a year. I believe, they are raising around four thosand this year. I buy my birds from them, and it is a lot of work. Quail, it seems are a bird looking for a place to die. They work very hard to make sure that they are flight conditioned. If the quail are spooked, they will run to the side of the flight pen... Pile up on each other and suffocate the birds on the bottom, for example. Last year, it was a sickness. Predators, like *****, coyotes and such have hurt their numbers too.
They also turn birds out on their little farm. The idea was to repopulate the area. 
That effort is futile. They simple do not have what it takes to survive. That survival instinct. I know there have been studies done on this, that I don't think that they can reproduce. 

I've used birds before, in idea habitat. Water, feed, cover, grass... Everything a quail could want. And yet, none seem to survive longer then a week, if that. 
PR quail, simply don't make it.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

our shoot normally gets about 2000 young chicks in over the summer and release them when they get flight feathers, over 1500 acres a few get taken by predators obviously, but we have a strict "no shoot" policy of short tails and birds below tree line. Foxes can be shot though


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

At ours, 3500 poults put down in 4000 acres of open farm land, marsh wetland, 3 deciduous woodland drives and a 6 acre duck pond.

Snipe, Woodcock, Duck are common, Geese if fly past and in range of guns.

Hare's are a big No No!!! Guns are warned not to go there!!!!
They have been quite common lately and quite large, not much smaller than our bitch River.
Have had trouble with her and the recall with these as they seem fast and fun for her!!!

Couple of fox's spotted but nobody seems bothered about taking these and they don't seem bothered either!!!!

I'll try and get some pics up here on the next shoot to show.

Reading back over the post sounds like I've lucked out!! 

Hobbsy


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Ky dept of Wildlife has a small quail restoration project started a few years ago - there brood stock came from wild birds + they do genetic testing - they release banded flight ready birds on public & private lands with good habitat - the verdict is still out - hope it's good 1 - then they will put the project in overdrive !!!!!!


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

V-J a 2yr case study by Case Sisson& the Albany Quail Project 1 released birds do not harm wild coveys - most times they just mix in 2 if released birds make it thru the winter they do reproduce - Hope Ky gets the same results !!!


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## v-john (Jan 27, 2013)

Sorry about the cut and paste.....

But this is a post written who is a wildlife biologist, and a vizsla owner.
I'm doing this from my phone so my apologies.

Pen raised birds are fed, watered and sheltered by man, and lack the survival skills that wild birds are given by Mother Nature and God.

They never are raised to escape predators, find water that isn't frozen, or find food that isn't in a feeder of some sort.
Anyways, on to the post by Elsa Gallagher.

Top

Re: Quail Repopulation

byRoostersMom» Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:41 pm

It doesn't work well - any biologist will tell you that if you are trying to restore quail withpenraised bird populations, you are fighting a loosing battle. It is totally illegal here in MO to do that for good reasons. Recent research from Mississippi State shows genetic differences in wild bobwhites andpenrearedbirds. Most research onreleasingpenrearedquail show a life expectancy of less than 30 days. The ones that make it long enough to breed are too stupid to care for chicks. On the plus side, wild birds will travel great distances to populate new habitat that is appropriate. Most of the problem stems from the fact that the habitat is just not good enough to provide for the bobwhite's needs throughout the year.

Here is some data (I cut off 2 pages of further data of other studies showing the same stuff):

Recent Literature on Survival
ofPen-rearedGame Birds Released into the Wild
Kansas (2009-2011) Evaluating the SURROGATOR® to increase Ring-necked Pheasant abundance and enhance hunting. Released chicks had an overall survival rate of 0.08 ± 0.06 (n = 58) over 12 weeks, with most mortalities occurring in first few weeks after release. Pheasant chicks had a high mortality rate following release, especially during the first 2 weeks post-release. This initial high mortality rate is similar to other studies involving released birds where post release mortality ranged from approximately 40%–85% in the first 2 weeks after release (Hessler et al. 1970, Brittas et al. 1992, Musil and Connelly 2009). It is also similar to a smaller scale study of surrogator-rearedpheasant conducted in Nebraska, where the estimated survival rate over 14 weeks was 12%, with most of the mortalities taking place in the first 2 weeks after release (J. J.Lusk, Nebraska Game and Parks Commission, unpublished report). This sharp decline in survival was observed in all 3 releases, but was most pronounced in July and September releases. After the first 2 weeks, the June release continued to have better survival over the 12-week tracking period than the latter 2 releases.

Texas (2009-10) Evaluating the use of Surrogators for raising Northern Bobwhites. Dean Ransom, Jr., Research Scientist, Rolling Plains Quail Research Ranch. The Surrogator is a technique for raising 1-day old bobwhite chicks to 5 weeks of age in a protective enclosed brooder box containing food, water, and a heat source. Bobwhite chicks are placed in the Surrogator at 1-day of age and released as a group at 5 weeks of age. The manufacturer claims as high degree of satisfaction among its customers, and provides substantial personal testimony as to its effectiveness. However, recent research in Georgia and Kentucky evaluating the success of these units in establishing bobwhite populations has provided data indicating that post-release survival is poor, and the return of banded surrogated quail to the hunter’s bag was also poor; similar results have been reported from Nebraska for pheasants. In 2009, RPQRR began a study to determine post-release survival of Surrogated bobwhites at two sites in Texas (Palo Pinto County and Clay County). We radio-tagged and leg banded approximately 80 5-week old chicks at the Palo Pinto site and approximately 40 chicks at the Clay County site. Most of the tagged birds were dead or lost by the second week post release. In 2010, we tagged 27 birds at a third site in Palo Pinto County, and found similar results, that being extremely high mortality of tagged birds within 2 weeks post-release. Visual observations of bobwhites without transmitters suggest that similar mortality was occurring. Based on our results to date, landowners utilizing Surrogators to enhance the existing bobwhite population or re-establishing populations in unoccupied ranges should expect poor survival and low success in achieving their goals.www.quailresearch.org

Idaho (2009). Compared vital rates of two different (pen-rearedand wild) ring-necked pheasant stocks and assessed effects of predator control on these pheasants released into current range. Wild (31 males and 112 females) andpen-reared(230 males and 1,059 females) ring-necked pheasants were released in spring into two areas in southern Idaho during 2000–2001 to augment low resident populations. Wild female survival from 1 March-1 October was significantly greater than that ofpen-rearedfemales in both 2000 (40% vs 4%) and 2001 (43% vs 8%). During 2001, predators were removed within our study areas. Survival did not increase for either stock of female pheasants after predator removal. Predator control did not increase the number of hens surviving to reach the nesting season (1 May), nesting rate or nest success. Wild female pheasants were seven times more likely to survive translocation to 1 October, ten times more likely to survive to the nesting season, eight times more productive, and one-third as expensive per egg hatched thanpen-rearedfemales. Low survival, poor productivity and higher costs of spring-releasedpen-rearedfemale pheasants strongly suggest that this is an inappropriate management tool for increasing pheasant numbers (Wildl. Biol. 15:80-88).

Nebraska (2008). The Surrogator™ captive propagation system is purported to significantly increase populations of northern bobwhite and ring-necked pheasants. The units provide food, water, heat, and shelter for chicks until they are released.Releasingpheasant chicks at 4-5 weeks and limiting contact with humans while they are in the Surrogator unit is purported to allow the chicks to retain the survival instincts of wild birds. We evaluated the efficacy of the Surrogator system by evaluating the survival and return-to-bag of pheasant chicks raised in the units placed on 2 shooting preserves and 2 public wildlife areas. Survival from release until the start of the pheasant hunting season was low (12%) and annual survival was less than 1%. Of the 170 pheasant chicks placed in the unit at the beginning of the study, 6 (3.5%) were returned to bag (NE Game & Parks Special Report).

Georgia (2005). Private managed hunting plantation. A total of 1,641 five-week-old wing-taggedpen-rearedbobwhites were released using the Surrogate Propagation™ system during June, August and September; and 1,000 12-16 week old leg-banded bobwhites were “dump released” during November. Birds were liberated into intensively managed pine savanna habitat that included supplemental feeding and predator control. A total of 93 birds were harvested of which only 13 were wing banded Surrogator birds. In this study the Surrogate Propagation™ release system alone did not result in the establishment of a sufficient number of “coveys” to meet the shooting objectives of the landowner. In fact, when the land manager conducted an informal bird dog census during early November, after the Surrogate Propagation™ releases, only five “coveys” were located. At that point the decision was made by the landowner prior to hunting to supplement the population with more dump-released birds than originally planned (Georgia DNR Special Study).

Kentucky (2007-2009). Study conducted by the Kentucky Department of Wildlife. In 2007, 294 birds were released using the Surrogate Propagation™ system at a research farm. The farm was hunted hard during the 2008-09 season, with no birds flushed or harvested. In 2009, KDW released 277 birds at the same site. Covey call counts were conducted on the property during October; with 1 covey detected. In mid-November, 5 hunters using 5 dogs hunted 2 hours with no birds flushed or harvested. At a second release site where no hunting was allowed, no birds were detected during Oct covey call counts, flush counts, or in call back pens.

South Dakota (1990-92). Released 44 wild and 159pen-rearedhens on public lands with excellent habitat during April to augment natural reproduction. Hens were followed for 181 days, through the nesting season, by radio telemetry. Only 8% ofpen-rearedhens survived the nesting season verses 55% of the wild hens. Predation accounted for 90% ofpen-rearedhen losses.Pen-rearedhens contributed little to nesting, because few lived long enough to hatch a nest. On average 100 wild hens produced 34 broods, 100penrearedhens produced 3 broods (J. Wildl. Manage. 58:501-6).

England (1982-85). Large releases ofpen-rearedhens in the fall of each year showed thatpen-rearedhens were 3x more vulnerable to predation than wild hens, and that wild hens were 4x more productive thenpen-rearedhens (J. Wildl. Manage. 52:446-450).

Iowa (1977-79). Released 2,510 hens on 3 study areas to increase populations. Subsequent analysis by winter flush, roadside, and crowing counts showed no increase in local populations. Populations on the 3 study areas fluctuated similar to populations on nearby areas that received no stocking (IA P-R Comp. Rpt. 16pp).

Oregon (1972-73). Released 335pen-rearedhens on public land in early April. Nearly all had disappeared within 40-50 days of release. Only 17 known young were produced from 335pen-rearedhens released. Wild hens (61) on the area produced 378 young during the same time period (Northwest Sci. 50:222-230).

Nevada (1972-73). Released 60 birds in April to augment natural reproduction followed by radio telemetry for 80 days. Recorded 63% mortality, 30% which occurred in the week following release. Most of the mortality 63% was due to predators. None of the hens successfully hatched a nest.

Minnesota (1967). Released 74 hens and cocks in August and followed movements for 28 days by radio telemetry. Sixty birds or 81% died by day 28. Mortality was mostly predation (55%) (J. Wildl. Manage. 34:267-274).

Illinois (1983-85). Wild bobwhite quail were shown by electorphoresis of blood samples to have greater genetic variability than game farm stock. The lower genetic variability among game farm birds is likely related to inbreeding and make-up of the founding game farm stock. Low survival and poor fitness of game farm quail may be partially attributed to the loss of genetic diversity.

Tennessee (2002-03) Genetic assessment ofpen-rearedNorthern Bobwhite releases on Ames Plantation
K. O. Evans, M. D. Smith, L. W. Burger Jr., R. Chambers, and A. E. Houston, and R. Carlisle. In response to low encounter rates with wild northern bobwhites (Colinus virginianus; hereafter, bobwhites) during bird dog field trials at Ames Plantation in Tennessee, a large-scale release program ofpen-rearedbobwhites was implemented in the fall of 2002. To evaluate potential genetic effects ofpen-rearedreleases on wild populations, we monitored survival ofpen-rearedand wild bobwhites from fall release ofpen-rearedbobwhites through the breeding season. We used genotypes from 6 polymorphic microsatellite loci to measure genetic diversity and conduct population assignment tests. Genetic diversity, number of alleles, and allelic richness were greatest in the wild, intermediate in the F1 generation, and lowest in thepen-rearedpopulations. In some years, somepen-rearedbirds will survive to the breeding season and successfully reproduce with wild birds. Given thatpen-rearedandpen-rearedx wild birds have reduced genetic variability relative to locally adapted wild birds, large-scale releases ofpen-rearedbobwhites may result in negative impacts on the genetic integrity of resident wild populations.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Good "cut and paste" V-John. Great information and gave me a much better understanding on why, during my thousands of miles of hill hikes with my dogs in the SF East Bay hills, we come across so VERY few quail, even though the environment would seem to be able to support them well. I see more quail in the suburban neighborhoods than in the hills.

One area in the hills above our town is attempting to reestablish a quail population and has fenced in safety areas with thick brush for cover. Here we see a few hundred quail that may venture out of the protected area, but upon seeing us fly back into the fenced in area.

Interesting.


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