# Unconsolable howling at night



## DrogoNevets (5 mo ago)

Hi there, newbie here with what i realise is an age old question.

We picked up our girl (Ziva) who is just under 8 weeks old on Sunday. 

At night when we are ready to go to bed, we place in her crate and then the howling/whining/crying/barking begins.

So far we have lost patience before she stops. Though granted this is pretty short as she just sound so terrified!

Ive read a lot of the most here/elsewhere and understand the "put crate in your room" thing. However this isnt an option for us as we have an elderly cat who uses our room and we want to leave that as "his space" so he feels safe too.

However, I would also like some sleep soon. We do have a spare room, and are considering sleeping with her in there, however are we making a rod for our own back and will never see our actual bedroom again if we do this?

Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, your our only help!

So summary of questions,
In the wealth of your V experience, how long do we leave her to cry it out?
If we start the spare room idea, with her in it, will we eventually be able to move her downstairs again/leave her in spare room (this is an option)?

Thanks everyone


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## Mike D (7 mo ago)

Hey, as someone who's recently been through that myself, this is my take on this.

It's only been 2 days so far for you and Ziva. She's probably terrified and unsettled by the change of environment. 

Can't answer the question about spare room. Taking the crate to the bedroom wasn't an option for us either, so we took turns to sleep next to the crate for the first few nights (back then it all sounded and felt torturous, and there was no light at the end of the tunnel, but right now, two months later, I barely remember that 'sacrifice'). It was downstairs, away from our bedroom, but close to the garden (for obvious reasons).

We also took Peanut out every couple of hours at night. He cried the first two nights, but then our presence itself made him feel safe and he stopped. He's been sleeping in the crate ever since. It does take time, effort and - sadly - a bit of stress, but it'll start changing soon.

It's worth it.


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## derwos (Nov 10, 2019)

May I suggest the use of the search functionality on this site? As you've stated, it's an age old question and there's A TON of threads discussing crate training.

Here -->> Search for 'Crate Training'


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

My method is to bring down an exercise mat, and sleep next to the kennel. That's probably not what you wanted to hear, but.......
I cover the front of the kennel and every time the puppy starts to get anxiety, I quietly talk to it through the towel, and gently tap the sides and front of the kennel
I am there to get them to the bathroom immediately and to condition them that they are not alone and are safe. It usually takes a few days to a week to settle them out. This is an excellent opportunity to bond with your new puppy, and do the potty training. Finn, my 3 year old, took about a week when we got him as an 8 week old, and was for all purposes potty trained within a week.
You will have your puppy for the next 12-14 years. A little upfront investment will pay huge dividends down the line. 
8 weeks old is too young for the "tough it out and suck it up method" in my opinion.


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## DrogoNevets (5 mo ago)

Hi Mike, this is certainly reassuring news! just need to get to that point.

Out of curiosity, when you were in same room was she with you, or in her crate/pen with you just talking? 

Gunnr, at what age did you start the touching it out process? 

We are aware its short term pain for long term gain etc, but boy, the labradors I've had in the past were a lot easier than this in this regard. But am aware its super early days yet. 

derwos, trust me i have searched here, google, facebook, etc. just lapping up as much info as I can.

Thanks all for your input. All advice is most welcome.


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## gunnr (Aug 14, 2009)

DrogoNevets

Each puppy will be different, but I like to give them a week or so to adjust. After that, I'll let them cry it out a little bit longer, usually when I am there and not trying to sleep though as part of the crate training.
Puppies need 14-16 hours of sleep a day, so I try and coordinate that time frame with nigh time sleeping. Not always easy, but I try.
I know the little demons seem like they can go all day long, but they do need to be "put down for naps". As long as I know they have gone to the bathroom, I put them in the crate, and just monitor them. If they cry, I'm already awake, and just let them settle out. It's never been more than two weeks though.
"I'm not a "tough it out" person to be honest. I have had to get a little firm with them, but I always attend them in time while being monitored. I want my puppy to be conditioned to accepting me as the beginning and end of everything. It makes it much easier for all of the lessons to come if they want to be with me. At 10-12 months old, I want my puppy to be hunting and retrieving birds, under control, with gunfire. It starts with those crate sessions and the trust developed at 8-10 weeks old.
According to animal behavior psychologists, and dog trainers, you will teach a puppy more between weeks 8-16, than the rest of it's life. The core foundation is laid in the first two months. I take a lot of time off work during this developmental period.

Edit to add based on Mike D's response below.
Our dogs through the years sleep in the living room downstairs. Our bedroom is upstairs. Our dogs have never slept in the same room, or bed, with us. They're also not allowed on furniture. (I'm a meanie. .


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## Mike D (7 mo ago)

DrogoNevets said:


> Hi Mike, this is certainly reassuring news! just need to get to that point.
> 
> Out of curiosity, when you were in same room was she with you, or in her crate/pen with you just talking?
> 
> ...


No, Peanut was always in the crate, we were initially right next to him, talking to and reassuring him, then each night we kept moving further and further away. (I guess we did the opposite of 'have the crate next to your bed, then keep moving it further and further away').

Eventually I slept in the room next door (but kept the doors open) for a week or so before eventually moving back upstairs and back into my own bed. Oh how I missed it!


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## sophiedb (7 mo ago)

We spent the first week on a blow-up mattress next to the crate and he settled really quickly. We have just retreated back to our own bed and he's fine now, no crying before bed. He goes to bed at around 10ish and wakes up at 7am with a wee break in the middle  think the good sleeping was due to the first few days sleeping nearby


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## Mike D (7 mo ago)

sophiedb said:


> We spent the first week on a blow-up mattress next to the crate and he settled really quickly. We have just retreated back to our own bed and he's fine now, no crying before bed. He goes to bed at around 10ish and wakes up at 7am with a wee break in the middle  think the good sleeping was due to the first few days sleeping nearby


Wow, 10pm to 7am? Amazing. We're (at 4 months old) still trying to get him to bed by 9.30-10pm (although he often crashes before that), have a wee break around 1-2am (ahem!), but he's still up by 5.45-6am. 6.30am was our best result yet. We don't cover his crate though or do any other form of blackout in his room....


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## sophiedb (7 mo ago)

Mike D said:


> Wow, 10pm to 7am? Amazing. We're (at 4 months old) still trying to get him to bed by 9.30-10pm (although he often crashes before that), have a wee break around 1-2am (ahem!), but he's still up by 5.45-6am. 6.30am was our best result yet. We don't cover his crate though or do any other form of blackout in his room....


It’s super early days for us so may still go the other way…but so far we’ve been very lucky. We cover the crate and have done since the beginning. Not 7am every morning, he woke up the first few nights at about 5.30 but then after a wee, cuddle and stretch he’d go back to bed for 1-2 hrs!


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## DrogoNevets (5 mo ago)

Morning all, sorry for the neglect in coming back, as you know we have a puppy on our hands 

So last night we decided to try a snuggle pet (you know, the one with heart beat) which seemed to work great and had a half reasonable nights sleep. Whether this is fluke or design I guess we will find out in coming days. So that is good.

Thank you for all the comments! Have read with great interest! any other advice for new puppy feel free to throw at me!

Can't wait until her final jab and cant start trying to tire her out with walks etc (there are loads of routes by us)


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## samsmom (Nov 16, 2009)

When Samantha was a new pup we went through the same thing with the crate- I even got in the crate with her! Nothing worked. We contacted our breeder - he said put her in the bed with you, she just wants to be with you. Well we did - I know that’s not popular with a lot of people- but it worked. We had adjustments to make, but I wouldn’t change a thing looking back! Good luck to you😀


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