# How important is OFA certification/are champion parents for my new puppies parents?



## xpat89 (Oct 11, 2018)

Hi,

I am trying to decide between two vizsla breeders and would greatly appreciate any advice on a few points before making my final decision. The Vizsla I purchase will be a companion and long-distance running partner, not a competition or breeding dog.

1. How important is the pedigree of my puppies parents / if the parents joints are OFA certified?

The one breeder I'm considering is asking $1500 for puppies from champion parents with OFA certified joints. This breeder only has 1-2 litters a year and is clearly very invested in the well being of his puppies. He offers lifetime contact and assistance to all puppy buyers. The second breeder I'm considering is asking $800. The parents of their puppies are not OFA certified. They claim to have never had a known issue with HD over the 18 years they've been breeding. They do have positive reviews dating from 2000-20016, no reviews in 2017 or 2018 though. This breeder doesn't seem like a puppy mill, but definitely runs more of a business averaging 6+ litters a year. Is the OFA certification really worth an extra $700? I've read online that even with OFA certified parents there is a 25% change of HD developing in puppies. The first breeder is Vanguard Vizsla out of Ohio and the second is Long Lane Farm out of Ohio. 

2. How important is socializing the puppies from week 0-8?

A second point of differentiation between these breeders is their contact with the animals. The first breeder keeps the animals in his home and is heavily involved with socializing them, in part due to the fact that he only has 8 instead of 16 at a time. The second breeder keeps her puppies in large fenced pens in a barn. Does this matter? 

Thank you for your help in advance!


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## vdogdad (Apr 15, 2013)

I'm not qualified to comment of the OFA certification, but would say the "first" breeder you have already determined "is clearly invested in the health of his puppies". That's really the end of the debate in my mind....Breeder Number One is the clear "winner". The difference in price will be soon forgotten when you add one of these marvelous creatures to your family. Vizslas MUST be with their humans...these dogs should never be penned outdoors...to do so will almost guarantee a miserable existence.
Good luck.


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

vdogdad said:


> I'm not qualified to comment of the OFA certification, but would say the "first" breeder you have already determined "is clearly invested in the health of his puppies". That's really the end of the debate in my mind....Breeder Number One is the clear "winner". The difference in price will be soon forgotten when you add one of these marvelous creatures to your family. Vizslas MUST be with their humans...these dogs should never be penned outdoors...to do so will almost guarantee a miserable existence.
> Good luck.


This, done.

There's no guarantee that a puppy form Breeder One will be more satisfactory or healthy than Breeder Two, but there's a much better chance, and the difference in price should be meaningless.

Who are the breeders?, we might know them and offer first hand opinions.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I'm going to suggest you contact the vizsla rescue in your area, and the vizsla club for a breeder referral. Ask them about both breeders.
To your question, How much is a piece of paper worth? 
Its worth absolutely nothing.
Even if its a pretty contract, if someone refuses to honor it. 
What we should be paying for.
Is a breeder that stands behind the puppies they produce. Only breeds parents without health problem, and correct structure. Knows the history behind the bloodlines they breed. Not just what someone can read online.
Puts dogs temperament above all else.

I don't care if they only have 1 litter every 3 years. Or 6 litters in a year. Its what type of dogs are they breeding. And what type of litters are the producing. How are their personal breeding dogs taken care of. 
There are people just out to make some cash. Once they have yours, they never want to hear from you again, or if your puppy has problems.
Then you have people that have care very deeply about the dogs they breed, and want to be a mentor to their puppy buyers. 
Unless you really do your research on a breeder. It's very tough to know who, is who in the beginning.
I have not seen a well bred vizsla sell for $800 in many years. I have seen a puppy mill vizsla, with tons of health problems sell $2500.
Its buyer beware.


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## xpat89 (Oct 11, 2018)

breeder one is Vanguard Vizsla, Ohio
link:
http://www.vanguardvizslas.com/

breeder two is long lane farm vizslas, Ohio
http://meyerlonglanefarm.wixsite.com/longlanefarm


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Send a email to Jessica Mackey with Alpine Vizsla. She should be able to answer any questions you have about Vanguard.

I would pass on the second one.
For some reason their name sounds familiar, and that's not always a good thing.
As I help with Vizsla rescue.


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

Who are the dam and sire from Vanguard?


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## IWantThatMountain (Aug 24, 2017)

I completely second contacting the local rescue. 
My first rescue comes from a breeder here in FL who has nothing but raving reviews from customers. When Ellie, my rescue from this breeder was there for the first 8 weeks, I think there were 3 other batches of Vizsla puppies in the house. They had about 10 batches of Vs a year. Once again, they are the highly regarded by her customers. This breeder hates the local club and rescue. 
One day, I happened on the Rescue's page and started to notice a lot of the Vs looked like Ellie. Now, this might sound crazy, but the dogs from this breeder look pretty different. Proportionally long legs and ears, skinny chests, and a thin face. I clicked on to the pages for these particular dogs and noticed they said the dogs were from a breeder (they call them a puppy mill) in x city, the same city as Ellie's breeder, who had dogs with awful temperaments and health issues, these things being sometimes why the dog was surrendered. 
Once again, raving reviews from all customers, not a bad thing on-line about them, and one of their dogs has OFA (they have been promising to get the other ones done for a year now). 
As for the cost, let me tell you, before I got Ellie, I was on the list for a puppy for $1,000. After my experience, I will pay double that on a puppy. When you are looking at the price, you think "oh, it is half the cost". Let me tell you, it is NOT. Ellie's previous owner had to surrender her because of VET BILLS! She has more health problems than you can imagine. If the owner had went out and payed the difference between this breeder and a reputable breeder, between the both of us, it would have saved thousands. It doesn't mean it will happen to you, but do be aware.
Another big thing most people don't mention as much as OFA is temperament. A lot of their dogs have temperament issues. Ellie is no exception. It is a constant struggle. A puppy at $800? Beware. Also, once again, most of the people from Ellie's breeder say their pup has NO temperament problems, and everyone else is lying. I don't know if they are protecting them, or if they are just lucky, but don't listen to only the good stuff.
This breeder has offered me a free puppy, but am polity saying I don't have room. When she finds out we have room, I will refuse the puppy. I will be paying $2,000 more. 
Oh, and this breeder also keeps her dogs outside, only bringing them inside to whelp. Another tip, look on the breeder's private facebook page. On the breeding Facebook they say how much they love the puppy's and all of that stuff, but on the private pages they whine about how awful, noisy, and obnoxious the puppies are


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

*. This breeder hates the local club and rescue. *

Thats normally a red flag.
They don't want you to ask the club, and rescue about them. They want you to stay far away from the people, actively involved in vizslas. Its so you don't learn the truth.


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## rustedduck (Dec 18, 2017)

To answer your second question - Other than health, socialization is paramount. I have a V currently that
was whelped inside the house with multiple human (adult & children) contact, other dogs, cats etc. He is
a joy to be around and loves everybody and everything Previously I had a V that was not socialized properly and had all kinds of issues.
Because of that proper socialization was the determining factor for a breeder. I was definitely lean toward breeder
number one.


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## spiraling (Jul 21, 2018)

I'm am not an expert here at all, but we recently chose a V from a somewhat local breeder. He's 'just' our pet so I didn't care about AKC championships or pedigree. We did care a lot about temperament. 

1 - In my mind the OFA is a MUST. Not because it guarantees your puppy will be healthy, but because it guarantees the parents are healthy. Many good breeders ask / require you get certified at 2 YO so they know if the line they are breeding is healthy. If a breeder can't be bothered to have a fairly simple and common test on their brood stock, don't buy from them. 

2 - go meet the parents. Are they well cared for? Even breeders with lots of pups a year can have very well cared for dogs. Is it clean, are all the dogs friendly? Play with them. See if you can take them out walking / hiking / running if possible. The pups will be much like one or both the parents, so if you like the dogs you will have a higher chance of having a good pup
3 - weeks 0-16 are extremely critical for socialization. Read The Art of Raising a Puppy by the Monks of New Skete. Its both a good read and very informative about choosing a puppy. When we visited our breeder they had 4 young boys who played with the puppies everyday. Our dog just LOVES children now. They were also climbing on the mom and petting/poking/piching the other dogs, who all were fine with it and seemed very well tempered around the children. 

4 - The $700 difference in price is nothing compared to a healthy dog. I got my last dog, and english pointer, from a rescue because I wanted to support the rescue dogs. He was over bred and later had 3 knee surgeries and a shoulder that could not be repaired but had yearly injections. That was about 5-6k in medical. This time around we are trying for a healthy pup. The extra money now not to have the medical - both in money and emotional trauma to the whole family - is worth it to us. 



Good Luck!


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## Gabica (Jan 20, 2018)

agreed with all comments to contact local club for recommendations and go from there. Hip and elbow OFA (normal or excellent hip), eye and thyroid are a must for me, just as visiting the breeder in their home and meet their vizslas, talk to other vizsla owners from their breeding program etc. for me personally proven record of trainability and conformation to standard are important too.

having said that, all of this cost lots of money, which u will see reflected in the price of your quality pup. 

not everyone will share my opinion, so just wanted to be transparent: i grew up in Hungary and the quality and survival of the vizsla breed is one of my key life priorities. i could have imported quality pedigree vizslas from Hungary for the fraction of the US price and chosen not to do as i believe that there is a huge risk that the process harms their personality.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Gabica 
Its true we as buyers, or breeders don't always agree on everything. 
But everyone wants their puppy to be healthy, and have a good temperament. 

So no matter what someone wants to do with their puppy. Buying from breeders that take extra steps to insure this, is very important. Just a pet still needs those things. Because just a pet is a part of a family.


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## Bob Engelhardt (Feb 14, 2012)

The thing about the websites that struck me was how much Vanguard Vizsla posted about their dogs - they are clearly invested in and very proud of them. Long Lane has nothing about their dogs. On the L-L home page, "Puppies for Sale" jumped out at me. My conclusion is that it's a passion for Vanguard and a business for Long Lane.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Bob Engelhardt said:


> The thing about the websites that struck me was how much Vanguard Vizsla posted about their dogs - they are clearly invested in and very proud of them. Long Lane has nothing about their dogs. On the L-L home page, "Puppies for Sale" jumped out at me. My conclusion is that it's a passion for Vanguard and a business for Long Lane.


I got the same impression. 
Plus L L you could put a deposit down on any pup, without ever speaking to them.
Thats never a good sign.

I know Vanguard used Jessica's stud Sika for a breeding. She's very involved with any litters sired by her dogs. Tons of photos of the puppies in the field, and doing puppy things. 
Her dog Riot was bred by Vanguard. I was hoping for a puppy out of him, as he reminded me so much of Lucy. But like Lucy, he left her way to soon. 

I still tell people to talk to the area vizsla clubs, and rescue. Explain to them what you are looking for in pup. What I like in a pup, maybe a little different.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I sent out some messages to rescues up north, as I live in Texas. New Hope Vizsla rescue has taken in dogs bred by Lone Lane Farm. Her response to buying a puppy from them was No No No.


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## kwwendland (Oct 20, 2018)

I have had Vizslas since 1987, I love the breed and have a two litters. The second and third Vizslas I have purchased were OFA certified and I consider that very important. I also certified both of the bitches I had litters with. $1500 is not too much to ask... I've paid $1800- $2200 for quality pups whose temperaments have been terrific. I now have a 15 week old female who is a delight. She will have her OFA X-rays after she is 2. Personally I don't think you can go wrong.


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