# ecollars, wearing one forever?



## nutmeg07 (Sep 14, 2013)

I'm interested in ecollars, but don't know a whole lot about them yet. My V spends a lot of time off-leash, but in places that we know, and with people and dogs we know. Her recall is really good, its only when we go away somewhere new, that I worry. She sticks to me, but if she sees random people or dogs on an off-leash walk, she's off. Not always, but enough for me to feel very uneasy. Specially as she has a bit of fascination with jumping up onto kids at the moment (working on it...), and I worry about cars etc. What I wanted to know is do you then wear the ecollar forever, or just to train them? Do they become reliable only when the collar is on, do they learn to know when they are wearing it, or do they just become very good at recall in general? I travel a fair bit around with my dog, and in some parts of the country ecollars are legal and not in others. Is the collar something that must always be worn to expect a good recall? Those people whose dogs are ecollared , can you sometimes leave the collar at home and expect the dog to be reliable off leash?
Also there was great information here on the basics of ecollar use that someone had linked, but I cannot find it now. If someone could recommend a site or describe exactly how to train your dog with the collar, I would be very happy.  Also, any tips or things that you have found very useful yourselves would be very helpful. Thank you all


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Nut - great posts on the forum - go to the site that makes them - me it is very simple - I teach whoa & here - at about a year old introduce the E when the pup understands these 2 commands - just a long range correction when hand whistle & voice fails - 4 me & my V it is just a correction 4 2 basic commands - at whoa they stop anything they are doing & look 2 U - here they stop anything & come 2 u - Very simple but a lot of work 2 get RIGHT ! E's do not correct a lack of understanding on the PUP's side !!!!!!!!!


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

As long as your dog does not become ecollar smart, they should listen without the collar. Now this is after months of training, and they have not gotten away with not recalling during the training period.
Most of dogs in the US that do hunt test and trials have been ecollar trained, and they do not get to wear the collars during test, and trials.
This does not mean a dog won't get a wild hair, and give a refusal to recall.
It just does not happen very often. I run mine once in a while without a ecollar, but I like the added insurance of having it on them. I just feel better to have it on and not need it, than the opposite.
My female June knows the command Leave it, and will follow it unless there is a skunk, or nutria rat involved. The collar keeps us from going home stinky, unless I don't catch it in time.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Bailey is now 6 years old. He wore and electronic collar a lot from 18 months to about 3 years old. 

Now only when we hunt does he wear it. Just to remind him not to move until after the shot. I never want to, or have anyone else, shoot my dog as they aim for a low flying bird. He stays put for a reason.

Pictures of a hunt with multiple hunters hunting behind Bailey.

In the picture you will see he also wears a GPS collar. He can run big and I want to be able to find him in the tall cover when he is on point.

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2013/12/a-first-time-pheasant-hunt.html

RBD


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Never had to use one, never will. I'd rather spend more time training them, than take the fast food route to training. The instant fix. Here in oz they are rarely used. Why do you guys need them and we don't? Are your dogs harder to train? I doubt it..... are we better trainers? Definitely not! But, we tend to put in time rather than use ecollars. Your dog, your call.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Its just because we have learned they are a very useful tools.
I could pound a nail in with a rock, but why would I, when I have a hammer.


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## tknafox2 (Apr 2, 2013)

Ozkar, You are right, we don't spend the necessary time. But part of the reason is... we don't have the free range and the freedom of opportunity to train and hunt like you do. We have to drive to a particular location, and once there, find/buy/hide something to hunt. Then drive home when we are done. A lot of the actual prep training is done in the driveway, or the back yard. The other factor, is many of us hire a trainer... That trainer has a limited amount of time to teach the necessary basics to our dogs. I seriously envy you and would have loved the opportunity to just Teach this wonderful fun "game/Job" gently with out the aid of e collar. 
I never used one on our other two, but then Greta (Weimaraner) went away to Gun Dog School, and who knows what they did to her...

Fergy at 1 yr, is required by our trainer, to wear his collar when he is out at all times... but most times I don't even turn it on any more. I know ... what is the purpose of even putting it on him... It is just part of his outside gear, part of his attire. Should we be somewhere we may want to have it... it is no big deal to him.


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## tknafox2 (Apr 2, 2013)

Actually, now that I really think about it... He gets excited when he sees it come out, because he knows he is going out, maybe to the canyon, or the beach, or best of all to the hunting grounds.. ;D


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

tknafox2 said:


> Actually, now that I really think about it... He gets excited when he sees it come out, because he knows he is going out, maybe to the canyon, or the beach, or best of all to the hunting grounds.. ;D


Mine love their collars too.
Mine can't hardly contain themselves. They do the happy leap and spin when I pull them out.


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## vangtt (Feb 27, 2014)

I haven't put a collar on him yet but will soon for field training. I hope to get my V to that point!


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

TexasRed said:


> Its just because we have learned they are a very useful tools.
> I could pound a nail in with a rock, but why would I, when I have a hammer.


Nope... Your going from a hammer to a nail gun to tack up your Xmas tinsel.  
You guys know my thoughts on ecollars. What did we do before we had ecollars? Spent time with our pups I guess. 
You guys go ahead and chow down on your Maccas, I'll have some fresh veggies and free range venison!  

Glad I'm back Deb?????


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I can tell you what my grandfather, and plenty of others did. They would pepper a dog that did not come when called.

Yes I'm glad your back.
We may not always agree, but you are helpful to forum members and add a little Aussi spice.
I checked my freeze and could not find any Maccas. I guess its not something I can hunt with the dogs, so it wouldn't be in there.


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

Ozkar said:


> Glad I'm back Deb?????


haha, I've missed this! Hobbsy did a noble job of defending the anti-ecollar position in your absence though. Then again, I'm not invested in either side of the battle, so I just enjoy the banter. Good to have you back, mate.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Ah the fun debates.

Good to have you back mate.

RBD


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## hotmischief (Mar 11, 2012)

The topic of E-Collars always evokes an interesting debate!!!!

I have used one once - on a dog who would dash off to greet someone in the distance. His recall was really good, but every so often. I worried one day he would get hit by a car. I hope it saved his life. It was a last resort and I have never used it since.

I find it interesting that in the US it seems to be a part of a hunters kit, where as in the UK I have never seen them used on shoots or by trainers. Yet dogs seem to be obedient and work well without the use of e-collars. Neither are they used in Hungary, they also seem to manage to train their dogs without them.

Good to have you back Marty.


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## Duke14 (Jul 20, 2014)

This is a very interesting thread. I have wondered about ecollars and the benefits to using them. I'm equating it to a technique rather than a necessity. Like using a clicker for training. You don't NEED to use it, but you can, and it can be helpful. Or using treats vs. using praise only. 

I distinctly _recall_ when I was about 18 years old I was house sitting for my aunt and uncle, they had a chocolate lab who I was watching as well. They went on a fishing trip and would be out of contact the whole time. My uncle loves to hunt and his dogs are hunting dogs. But, as soon as his parents left, the dog took off to see his girlfriend and didn't come back. I was so worried. I grabbed a bag of treats and spent everyday driving around, **** near getting myself lost, calling out to him hoping he would come back. If you're familiar with Ontario, Canada I was deep in the heart of the Muskokas, lakes, dirt roads, and trees as far as the eye could see (my favourite place to be). That dog stayed at his girlfriend's house the entire time I was house-sitting. My grandma explained to me that sometimes he did this and I probably had no reason to worry, but I was worried and I was disappointed because I thought my aunt and uncle would be angry with me for "losing" their dog.

As soon as they arrived back at home they knew exactly where he was. They drove over to his girlfriend's house and picked him up. My uncle arrived back not 20 minutes later with the dog and proceed to berate the poor thing, even gave him a swift kick to the ribs. He explained to me that he needed to be able to trust him in the woods and the dog needed to know he'd done wrong. It was heartbreaking for me to watch though and I didn't agree with his methods. If they had used an ecollar, maybe he would have stayed, or in the least if they had a GPS collar for him, maybe I could have found him myself and prevented the abuse that took place after.

I don't know that I will use an ecollar, but it's nice to know the option is there if I find the Duke has trouble with recall.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

> My uncle arrived back not 20 minutes later with the dog and proceed to berate the poor thing, even gave him a swift kick to the ribs.


And at that time the dog had no idea why it was being treated this way. As soon as the dog was gone, the opportunity for correction was missed.
If you miss the opportune (with in seconds) time to correct a dog, there is no reason to correct them. Your not teaching them anything, other than they can not trust you.


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## R E McCraith (Nov 24, 2011)

Nut - the GOOD - the BAD & the UGLY ! - the GOOD - a correction for the commands they know - the BAD - using it as a training tool for commands they do not KNOW - the UGLY - a punishment when YOU get FRUSTRATED !!!!!!! 3 simple rules that 2 many ignore - PIKE is my first pup to get a E - I like it - then I found myself getting lazy - back to basics - whoa board - check cord - hand & whistle signals - it is ALWAYS a matter of TRUST with your V - this is just taking a LOT of time with your pup - Guess what - this is what your V wants from the get go !!!!!!!!!


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## tknafox2 (Apr 2, 2013)

For those of you who are reading this thread, lurking, or contemplating using an e collar... It is imperative that you do it correctly, You can not just put it on and use it. The dog must wear it inactivated for many days before you attempt any low dose/or correction.
It is necessary that the dog associates the collar with fun & exciting times... Not Pain & Fear. 

Also... If your going to spend the bucks, and plan to use it for hunting/training... I would suggest to go all the way, and get the GPS that tracks your dog... even if the dog doesn't range a great distance from you... some times the terrain is lush, deep. forest, or hilly and you loose sight of the dog. Trust me it is scary when the pup disappears into the grass, around the bend and you have no idea where he has taken off to. He might be just 10 ft away holding a point... but you can't see him.


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## Duke14 (Jul 20, 2014)

TexasRed said:


> > My uncle arrived back not 20 minutes later with the dog and proceed to berate the poor thing, even gave him a swift kick to the ribs.
> 
> 
> And at that time the dog had no idea why it was being treated this way. As soon as the dog was gone, the opportunity for correction was missed.
> If you miss the opportune (with in seconds) time to correct a dog, there is no reason to correct them. Your not teaching them anything, other than they can not trust you.


It's interesting that at the time of this incident I wanted to console the dog. You could see he didn't understand and all he wanted was love from my uncle. At 18 I didn't know about training and "catching them in the act" to correct bad behaviour but somehow I instinctively knew that it just wasn't right. I never quite looked at my uncle the same and I never reported any bad dog behaviour to him again either. My empathy for animals can be heart crushing.


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