# Has your V bit someone?



## Lindsey1420 (Jan 28, 2012)

Honestly, has your V ever bit someone?

Jack just bit my newphew! Drew blood with three punctuer wounds!

Background to the situation:
The other day Jack as at my sister-in-laws. She Jack a bone. She said that my newphew sat down to pet him (jack was eating one is bone) and he growled and snapped at my newphew My sister-in-law said that she was able to sit and pet him while he ate his treat. 

The other day Jack did you that to me too. I went for the bone and he growled at me. I let him know that is not how things go on. I went to take his bone away, first time ever doing this, because he gums were turning red. 

Tonight, Jack had a bone. He was running and playing with it. Even letting another adult take it, only to return it. That happen a couple times and Jack was enjoying himself. I was sitting with jack while he was eating his bone. I called my newphew in thinking things were fine, since everyone else could get near him while he was eating his bone. I also figure things would be fine sine I was RIGHT THERE. I told my newphew to pet him. Gosh I wish I could take back time. All my newphew did was left him arm and Jack snapped. I had to remove his mouth off his hand. 

I feel so so so so so so so horrible. I cant stop crying. I really didnt think Jack would do that since let the other adult take it away and was playing around with it. I also didnt think anything would happen because I was right there. 

Jack did just get fixed Friday, Feb 17. Could that have something to do with it? Or is it maybe since my newphew is the same size as Jack? My newphew has been around Jack A LOT since we got him, so its not like he hasnt been socialized with him. 

Should I be worried??? So upset about this.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

Lindsey,
Sorry to hear about your nephew's injury. You have some work to do. You need to be concerned and if you don't know how to deal with Jack, then get a trainer, not just for Jack but for your family.
For now I would eliminate all "high value" objects from Jack's world. Hand feed dry kibble, bland, for every meal and turn into a Marine drill sergeant. Have your nephew walk the dog on leash. No off-leash time for now or the foreseeable future. All on-leash, at heel, all the time.
For the next month, Jack needs permission to do everything. He wants something (anything), he will have to earn it. He has to UNDERSTAND he is a lowly dog that owns nothing and has no rights. *Everyone * is his boss. He doesn't have to guard anything because he owns NOTHING.

Bones are a thing of the past. At least until he is 3 years old. Too much value to a dog like Jack.

Does this make sense?

Get to work. You have a lot of reading and training to do.

RBD


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I would follow RBDs advice. When a Vs snaps they are quick.. You can be right there and still not be able to stop it.
Kids forget about rules with dogs, so don't expect your nephew to follow them on his own. I would not allow him in the same room without supervision and a leash on the dog. Things happen quick that you can't take back.


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## jjohnson (Nov 9, 2011)

I've learned with our dog, that kids are very different than adults in the eyes of dogs. They are more at their eye-level, they are often louder, make more jerky movements, and are more unpredictable. Also, they don't pick up on a dog's body language as well as adults do. I am so sorry your V bit your nephew; that is one of my biggest fears with our V, who is terrified of children in general. All I can do is echo Redbirddog's advice, and I hope everything works out!


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## Vizsla Baby (Nov 4, 2011)

You might try not giving him bones for a while. All 3 incidents revolved around them.


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## anne_wilcrest (Oct 20, 2011)

I'm so sorry this happened, that must have been truly awful.

RBD has sound advice, +1 that.

One additional thing you might want to try (or add to that plan/regime) is touching him and/or his food a lot when he's eating. If he shows any aggression at all, remove the food, and wait til he is completely calm to return it.

If you're hand feeding him, start off maybe petting/scratching his favorite spots, then move on to a more aggressive, pushy kind of contact.

Then, when he is fine with all that; while touching him, periodically remove the food, sometimes returning it. That way you can demonstrate he a.) has no say whatsoever and b.) you removing it doesn't necessarily mean you won't give it back. But most importantly that he has tolerate all these things.

Any dog will bite given the right circumstance/stimuli - we are just working towards making that as small of a margin of incidents as possible.


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## anne_wilcrest (Oct 20, 2011)

One more thought!

If I were you, I'd want to have an interaction with my nephew and Jack as soon as possible - and would want to GUARANTEE my nephew that Jack wouldn't be able to bite him, no matter WHAT, so I would muzzle Jack. 

I think it's important to have as many positive interactions AS SOON AS POSSIBLE after something like this (for your nephew) - this is just my thought process though, maybe someone else has personal experience with this they can share.


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## luv2laugh (Oct 6, 2011)

I think RBD's advice is right on based everything I have read.

I can imagine this must be so painful and I'm sure the thought of making things militant does not sound like the type of relationship you want with your dog.

But, we started Oso with those things when we first got him and other than you feeling guilty, since you already give him so many wonderful things, it can actually build your relationship. Hand feeding is actually kind of intimate. And the type of dog you want is one that knows you are boss and respects you. You never want to have to be afraid he/she will hurt others (especially a beloved nephew). 

I do think the neutering could have something to do with it. We are all more irritable when we are in pain. IF he is uncomfortable, it could exacerbate things.

I'm not sure when the right time to do it would be, possibly after Jack is very comfortable with you being in charge and you start introducing treats again. But, a great way to stop food possessiveness is as follows:

1) Walk behind dog and drop treats into his bowl while eating. 
2) Get closer each time you drop the treat
3) Make your hand closer to the dog's bowl as you continue sporadically dropping treats.
4) Put hand in bowl to put treat in.
5) Block dog's mouth with hand while putting treat in bowl
6) Remove bowl in order to put treats in and then quickly return. 


With puppies, you can often skip steps. We started right at 5 and 6. This way your dog associates you putting his hand in his bowl, for Jack also substitute bone with a good thing. You could also substitute touching the bowl with petting him if that's the issue. 

I'm so sorry to hear this situation happened. Oso and I once had a horrible experience with nail clipping which included some light biting on my hand. It was horrible and my fault completely, he was very scared at the time. He also went through a thing around 4 months when he lightly bit at my hand when I tried to take him away from the dog park. In our case it was not one single hard bite, but kind of light multiple biting actions. I did get scratches though.

It is something to take really seriously though. It was in Oso's case as well.


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## Lindsey1420 (Jan 28, 2012)

Thanks RBD for the advice. Thanks everyone for the postings. 

The whole thing still puzzles me! I didnt get alot of sleep and been replaying everything in my head. I cant talk about it without crying and I am NOT a crier!!!! I had and have been always able to put my hand in Jacks bowl and hand feed him. Did it again this morning and hes dinner tonight. The only connection I can make is me getting him fixed. All of the incidents happened after he got fixed. But most dogs are calm after being neutered. I'm not blaming this on being neutered thought, just all of this has happen within the last week and a half. 

I called my sister-in-law this morning and she said that my newphew was mine and no complaints . 

The other thing is, is that later in the night about an hour or so after the incident Chris let Jack out of the kennel;against my wishes. Jack was his normal shelf and even sat right next to my newphew and was licking his face. Jack knew and sensed that I was very mad at him and walked on egg shells around me for the rest of the night. He normally lays right next to Chris at bedtime was wanted to be on me. 

Jack will not be getting any favorite goodies for a long time. I called my breeder today to tell him what happened and he was shocked and speechless. He advice also not to let him have any bones for awhile and when I do let Jack have them again, only let him have it in his kennel.

My fear is that it will either happen again and/or it will get worse. Like what if another newphew or niece has a hot dog and Jack wants that hotdog so he bites them to get it. I know other people feed there dogs table scraps but me and Chris are against that. So, Jack doesnt know what it taste like but he sure loves the smell. 

Anything else please let me know.


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## Lindsey1420 (Jan 28, 2012)

One more thing. I also super shocked by this because he is a puppy. I dont image a PUPPY attacking someone!


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## mswhipple (Mar 7, 2011)

I just wouldn't give Jack any more raw bones, if I were you. Period. Willie never gets raw bones. What he's never had, he can't really miss. In addition, everything that RBD said.


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

Lindsey1420 said:


> One more thing. I also super shocked by this because he is a puppy. I dont image a PUPPY attacking someone!


You should be glad that it happened now as opposed to when he turned 2 or 3. 
It is much easier to reverse now.

Get yourself a GOOD trainer who can teach you how to train your dog. 

Everyone seems to agree that you shouldn't give him any more bones, but as you say yourself, what if another niece or nephew is munching on a hotdog... or trying to feed him one.
I would personally head to the butcher shop for a bag of bones and start teaching the dog who they belong to, what happens when he lets go of them, and most importantly, what happens when he growls or nips around them. 

If your nephew is brave enough, and you feel confident in controlling your dog, he should be part of the training once you've had success with the dog dropping bones for you.

Good luck with this.


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## Lindsey1420 (Jan 28, 2012)

I guess I was misleading with "bone". I have never given Jack raw bones. When I say bone I mean Dingo Bone. LOL. Big difference I know.


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## Vizsla Baby (Nov 4, 2011)

I have a few more thoughts. 

First, be careful with your energy. You are rightfully upset about what happened but if you are fearful or apprehensive when the pup is around your nephew it might make things worse for both of them. 

Don't punish him by ignoring him later in the day or night. They are dogs and cannot rationalize why you are mad or upset with them later on. They live in the now. They need immediate correction and then leave it and hope you don't see the behavior again. You don't want to drive a wedge in the trust factor of your relationship with him.

After a couple of successful visits, you might get your nephew to feed your puppy some - to establish a sense of human dominance over him. No hand in the bowl or anything, just give him a leadership role over the dog.

I don't see how this could have anything to do with him being fixed so don't beat yourself up over that. He's just getting older and more dominant.

When you are alone with him you should try a raw hide every now & then and take it from him so he knows its not "his" or try holding it while he chews it for a few times (get a good long one for that LOL!) and then get up and walk away with it after 4 or 5 minutes. 

Lastly, make sure your pup has had a good hard run before he sees your nephew again so he is good and pooped with low energy.

Here's the only incidence of anger I've seen from my V who is 9 1/2 months old. My Sadie was sharing a yummy chicken droppings pan with our dachshund and she growled at him once when she was about 6 or 7 months old. She was immediately spoken to and removed from the pan to watch our dachshund finish it without her. It has never happened again and they share the chicken pan often and he hovers over her when she eats to gather up the kernels she spills on the floor. She is such a sweet baby.

Good luck!


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

Nothing to do with him getting fixed (I call it broken ). I know you're upset but, it doesn't sound like Jack was trained properly; or even knew how he was expected to act around your Nephew. He is only doing what his instinks told him to. Protect his food. All family dogs need to be trained and understand what is expected of them. Unfortunately Jack was put in a situation he should not have been. That said, I would never let a child near a dog with a bone or toy that doesn't know how to properly interpret the dog's behavior. All children should not be allowed to go near a dog with food unless BOTH are trained, and the situation is rehearsed to the point of common understanding. It also sounds like Jack doesn't know his place in the pack and maybe the pack is very large and changes from time to time. 

I can't help but feel from your posts that this dog doesn't have the required structure he needs. Yes, it will get worse without the help of a more experienced pack leader. The situation should be clear to you now. Forget the drama and get to work on training that dog!


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## Lindsey1420 (Jan 28, 2012)

I can't help but feel from your posts that this dog doesn't have the required structure he needs. Yes, it will get worse without the help of a more experienced pack leader. The situation should be clear to you now. Forget the drama and get to work on training that dog! 
[/quote]

What do you mean by required structure?


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

Structure - Daily training on all the important behaviors. A routine so he knows where his place is (both in the house and within the pack). Knowing he has no choice but listen and respond to a command. A feeling of confidence and at the same time understanding that there is a pack leader who is boss. A coordinated training plan that all family members adhere too. I read your posts and I get the picture that there is a lot of what I call "leeway" in this dog's behavior and the environment is very dynamic (like there are people coming and going - like in a boarding house). I could be wrong but that's how it comes across. 

In addition, putting the dog in his crate when you have a situation you can't monitor, is probably a very good option at this point in time.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Please do not blame the dog, instead learn how to live with and give him basic training. Punishing, neutering won't solve anything. 
Patience, time, basic care and lots of love will make any house pet heaven to live with. 
Cats, dogs not much difference, if they grow up being handled with love and care, all end up well once they mature.

As a matter of fact, animals tend to mirror their owners. (I read this, there may be some truth to it, though).


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

Hello. I want to chime in as my 10 month old pup showed similar behaviour around this age. He didn't bite anyone but on a few occasions I think he would of if it wasn't me or my wife stopping the behavior but if it was some one else then he might have bit them.

First as already stated by others stop the bad feeling towards your pup. He will assume that you no longer trust him and you have trust him to move forward. My pup was given raw bones and bully sticks since we brought him home. Around 6 months of age he all the sudden started to growl when I tried to take them off him. This happened maybe 4 times. The first time I too was shocked as he had never shown any negative behavior. First you need to train your pup the drop command. Don't do this with harsh tone just be consistent. You will find if he is guarding something when you move towards him he will tense on the object with his jaw and back. Don't panic at this age he it is just him trying to warn you that he wants it and doesn't want to drop. Continue to instruct him to drop. He might stay tense for some time. The first time with my pup it took 30 mins for him to drop it. Your pup will get tired and he will go through the cycle of fight, flight(don't let him go anywhere) and avoid( make sure you see this through). Eventually he will drop the object. DON'T then try to pick it up if his body is positioned over it. Instead once the object is on the floor move towards the object until you are over it. It might be that he picks it back up at this stage and if he does then start over with the stand off of giving the drop command until he then drops it again. If he allows you to get over the bone then pick it up. Here is the key. As soon as you have picked it up be very excited and say in the happiest voice ever,"Good boy" and give the bone back to him. Then repeat this process. 
Please don't do what you said at first and just stop giving him bones to get rid of the problem. All that does is avoid a situation that will come up again if some one drops food by him. Also I don't like the advice the breeder gave you on this one. Giving him a bone only in his crate enforces his guarding instinct as the crate is a safe place so he is going to think that he should be confined when eating a bone and should be left alone. What you want to enforce in his mind is that is doesn't matter if people are around him when he has a bone because if anyone takes it from him he gets it right back. Hope this helps.


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## redbirddog (Apr 23, 2010)

This forum is great. Lots of communication and ideas. Some I agree with and some not so much. 

Suggestions are given -but with a dog that has *bitten someone* and drawn blood, it is time for a good trainer IN MY OPINION. One who can get to know you, your family and your dog.

We all have viewpoints and methods. What works for my Bailey SURE won't work with my Chloe. Completely different Vizslas that have lived their whole lives under our roof and only 10 months apart.

There are *good trainers * that would want to help are out there. Your job would be to find them. 
RBD


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

redbirddog said:


> This forum is great. Lots of communication and ideas. Some I agree with and some not so much.
> 
> Suggestions are given -but with a dog that has *bitten someone* and drawn blood, it is time for a good trainer IN MY OPINION. One who can get to know you, your family and your dog.
> 
> ...


I am guessing by this comment RBD you don't agree with my method. What is the issue??


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I believe there is a difference in a dog that has has just started guarding objects and one that has escalated to biting.
If you plan on setting up a situation to provoke a known biter, then you better have a plan of action in place.


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## Linescreamer (Sep 28, 2010)

Born36. I think RBD believes the situation requires swift and professional action to curtail the situation. Some people are not cut out to be pack leaders and trainers. That is OK. However, either way I'm sure Lindsey doesn't want Jack to bit again and continue down the wrong path. I'm sure she will decide which road is best for her and Jack.


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

born36 said:


> I am guessing by this comment RBD you don't agree with my method. What is the issue??


I think the process you chose was excellent. I am all for working with a dog, and not avoiding a know issue.
The trouble is, not everybody has the patience to make it work as well as you did.

Being that the dog bit someone, and the owner sounds inexperienced, I personally feel that a pro trainer would be best to teach the owner exactly how to carry one's self around a dog. 

We read a LOT of advice on the internet when we got our pup. It wasn't until we had a trainer come to our home that we started to really understand how to communicate with Mischa.


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## Lindsey1420 (Jan 28, 2012)

My house is not a crazy train. I have to, my husband works shift work. Without structure I would go crazy myself. Jack listens to me very well. He does know the drop command. I work with Jack every night on old and new things. We have people over and we go where people are so I can get him socialized. But its not like I have people over every night. When people are around I dont watch them with jack and jack with them. When I see something I dont like I teach them what they need to do. I make them have him sit, or tell them how to deal with "no bit" or "no jump." But he is still a puppy and is still learning.

I expect my sister-in-law to up hold the rules/training with Jack when he is with her, but I am not there so I dont know what happens. So maybe that is a problem. I dont know

This behavior came out of no where. Total left field. My newphew is Jacks buddy. Jack is so totally excited when he see him. 

I love Jack, I was just VERY upset at the time. I was just so mad that Jack did what he did. I dont hate Jack, was just very upset. Not in my wildest dreams who I have thought Jack would have done this. He had never been protective of treats until just these last two weeks. Actually right after having him neutered. And I'm not blaming the neutering on the action either. We got him neutered for personal reasons, not as a punishment. He has never done anything wrong until now.

Just because Jack bit my newphew, I dont think, makes me inexperienced. I'm not avoiding the situation. If I was avoiding the situation I would have not done this post asking for advice and would not have made calls to people for advice. 

I have contact the vizsla clubs in my area for referrals to some trainers that they think would be good for me. 

Like RBD said we all have differnet methods and viewpoints and what works for one does for the other. 

I thank everyone for the advice and help. I can only move forward and try my hardest to fix this issue, which is what I have been doing. And I dont plan on never giving him a bone again, just not until I get this problem fixed.


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## harrigab (Aug 21, 2011)

Ruby hasn't bitten anyone although there was a close encounter yesterday evening. We'd walked down to school to pick the boys up after a school disco and one of the parents walked up and tapped me on the elbow to get my attention,,,,Ruby growled and lunged at him, luckily I had her on a short lead


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

harrigab said:


> Ruby hasn't bitten anyone although there was a close encounter yesterday evening. We'd walked down to school to pick the boys up after a school disco and one of the parents walked up and tapped me on the elbow to get my attention,,,,Ruby growled and lunged at him, luckily I had her on a short lead


iirc you posted a vid with Ruby humping when you guys were wrestling?

If that was you, it's something to think about correcting if it happens again. Dominance means that in certain situations Ruby will think she owns you and is protecting what is hers from a stranger. I know the humping is cute, but allowing it is agreeing that the dog is correct.

just my 2 pennies... 

-Dennis


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## 1notenough (Sep 6, 2008)

The little boy across the street,has come very close to getting bit.I think he did something to my dog Riley.We try not to have him come over with his sister to play anymore,Riley has not attempted to bite anyone else.


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