# Garlic and dogs.



## Kedves (Nov 18, 2019)

This might be much better venue to discus this surely controversial topic. Out of respect I will not continue this discussion in someone's else thread to avoid grief for the OP.

Please don't hesitate to say your peace on this subject if you have something to say at all.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

Garlic is a known blood thinner.
While safe for most people, high amounts of garlic are not safe for everyone. 
With my husband having had a brain aneurysm, there are some natural things that need to have limits. A lot of those same things, are listed as not good for dogs. 
I don't look at natural, as always being good. If that were the case, there would be no poisonous plants. Just as pharmaceutical drugs can, and do have side effects. The same can be said, for some natural remedies. We need to ask ourselves Could we be creating a bigger problem, than the one we are trying to fix? 

Due to dogs being more sensitive, to things we eat daily. I feel there is no reason to take added risks with some foods.


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## Gabica (Jan 20, 2018)

Controversial topic for sure.
I grew up with garlic and onion being the magic cure for humans and big NO for dogs. Then they figured that raw onion causes stomach issues with me (not a lot of thing can achieve that lol), so that is off my diet, but then again i am the only one in my family not eating that.
I saw a lot of people, especially in the show dog circle using garlic for their treats / baits and their dogs had no issue with it, including some vizslas. I guess with moderation it should work, but until proven that i need it for my V`s i will probably avoid it for my crew.
It is similar with food, mine are on Orijen and thrive on it, another vizsla breeder i know said her line gets diarrhea from it. 
I also have friends whose dogs are perfectly fine with chocolate, guess i won`t try my luck with that. 
So in summary, in my view dogs have some similarities and some individual differences, so u gotta know what works for yours.


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## Kedves (Nov 18, 2019)

It appears to be much healthier debate than I encountered before on the same subject. 

It also appears that there is absolutely no need to change my narrative. 

Here it is word for word:



Kedves said:


> I will be the first to say that onion is bad for a dog., however I will strongly object of placing garlic in the same category. IMO the health benefits greatly outweigh any dangers. I provide you with couple of links that you can do your own digging and come to your own conclusions.
> 
> https://www.natural-dog-health-remedies.com/garlic-for-dogs.html
> 
> ...


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

It's a forum. We each have our on thoughts, on any given subject. We learn from each others experiences, and sometimes even agree. 
Other times we agree, to disagree
By having different points of view, more information is shared on the subject.
I don't see that as being a bad thing. It leads people to do their on research, and form their own opinions.


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

This is an unnecessarily provocative thread designed to dismiss actual science and proven fact as well as those who accept them in service of some personal control issue and a need to justify one's own beliefs or behaviors. There is absolutely no "Point of view" , no "Controversy", nor "Healthy debate" possible on the feeding of garlic...a known toxin..to dogs. One can choose to ignore those facts, but to do so is not only foolish in the extreme, but puts one's (supposedly) beloved Vizsla at risk for permanent physical damage or death.

Again, actual science from trusted sources, not some alternate reality and not open to further discussion, at least with me. And, although I am loathe to use personal non Vizsla life experience as a justification, I'm an actual doctor IRL, I really do have the cred to understand and assess all sides of this particular issue.

https://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/toxicity/are-onions-and-garlic-bad-your-dog

https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/nutrition/can-dogs-eat-garlic/

https://phz8.petinsurance.com/pet-health/pet-toxins/garlic-toxicity-and-pets

http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/toxicology-brief-allium-species-poisoning-dogs-and-cats


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I feel these types of threads, lead to more in-depth discussions. By doing so, more information/links are available to members.

I hope no one takes this thread as a personal attack, and it stays civil. When mods have to edit or lock down posts, the forum loses valuable information.


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

texasred said:


> I feel these types of threads, lead to more in-depth discussions. By doing so, more information/links are available to members.
> 
> I hope no one takes this thread as a personal attack, and it stays civil. When mods have to edit or lock down posts, the forum loses valuable information.


Deb, with all due respect I have to disagree. 

There should be no room on our site for the promotion of any practice that can lead to the death or injury of our beloved Vizslas. And while everyone is entitled to their own opinions and (sadly) to do with their dog what they believe is best, the line gets crossed when that practice is actively promoted as more than a personal choice and actual fact. There is simply no amount of a known toxin/poison that is "Safe" for use, and there should be no confusion by allowing the discussion to continue. This is one of those times.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27047944


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

As a admin, it does not break the forum rules to have this thread. I am not the one that makes the rules, and only here to enforce the ones that exist.

So as one of many volatile topics that may arise, I ask that it remain civil. That neither party take it as a personal attack, or feel the need to argue on the forum. If each has stated their thoughts on the subject. Then try to refrain from, restating those same thoughts. Some things we just have to agree to disagree.


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## Bob Engelhardt (Feb 14, 2012)

gingerling said:


> ... There is simply no amount of a known toxin/poison that is "Safe" for use, ...



You are straying from science. It is fundamentally true that all toxicity is a matter of dosage. Alcohol is toxic/poisonous to people if a threshold is exceeded, but safe at other levels. A microgram of garlic, to take an extreme example, is certainly safe for dogs. The point being that the toxicity is dependent upon the dosage and not that "There is simply no amount of a known toxin/poison that is "Safe"...".


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

I was also going to mention the concept of "dose makes the poison." For example, the Christmas I woke up to find the family dog had chewed up my stocking to consume all my chocolate to no ill effect doesn't disprove that chocolate is toxic to dogs, just that she (thankfully!) hadn't consumed a lethal dose. Dogs may also benefit from the antioxidants or other reputed health benefits of cacao, but I don't think you'd find anyone recommending it being given to dogs as a supplement. So do the health benefits of garlic, which I accept for the record, occur at a dosage safe for dogs and are they worth the health risks at that same level?

I was trying to figure out which compounds in onions are responsible for causing Heinz body anemia and if they exist in the same concentration in garlic to see if there is any support for garlic being less harmful. In this search I quickly realized I don't know anything about organic chemistry and my eyes glaze over when I start reading about this stuff. There is a host of compounds in alliums that contribute, but the consensus is that n-propyl disulphide is primarily responsible. I wasn’t able to find info detailing concentrations of this in onion vs. garlic. I did eventually stumble on this article https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2984110/ that details the mechanisms of toxicity in several of the common toxins for pets, including onion and garlic. I’m not seeing a citation for this, but the article says that there could be a negative cumulative effect of feeding onions over time, so even if garlic contains fewer toxins, presumably they could still accumulate over time and cause problems. Of garlic they say, “Garlic (Allium sativum) is considered to be less toxic and safe for dogs than onion when used in moderation,” but they don’t cite any literature that supports that. They also write of a (very small) study where dogs are given 5g/kg body weight of garlic a day for 7 days. The result of this study was a decrease in red blood cells, red blood cells per total volume of blood, and in hemoglobin–all markers for anemia– as well as the formation of Heinz bodies though no dog actually developed hemolytic anemia. That same daily amount in onions would be considered a toxic dose, so I guess garlic is less bad, but it’s far from harmless. 

Anecdotally, I tried out a granulated garlic supplement with my dog as an insect repellent. If I remember correctly, it made her a little gassy and was unremarkable as a repellent (at least at the frequency and dose I was comfortable with). So sure give your dog garlic, but maybe loop in your vet and get regular blood tests to monitor for signs of oxidative damage. Personally, I’d rather rely on a whole foods, mostly carnivorous diet to support my dog’s health.


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## InTheNet (Jun 1, 2016)

Ever eaten an apple seed? ever eat potato skin? Mango? Cassava? many more also.


All potentially poisonous.


A V of 55 lbs would have to eat almost 2 full bulbs of garlic at one sitting to be toxic.


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