# Messing up her crate! Why?



## MCD (May 4, 2013)

Dharma is 11 weeks old. We put her in her crate in the rec room at night. She goes for a walk at about 10:00 PM and then goes in for the night. She usually whines for a few minutes but settles and sleeps until about 5:00 AM. When we wake up her crate is completely trashed and very stinky! She also goes into her crate at 11:00 AM before I go to work. Mark lets her out at 4:00 PM when he gets home. I leave her with me and we go for a long walk or play in the yard before I go for the day. Dharma is getting fed at 5 AM and let out before and after eating and when she gets up in the morning. We come home from work and her crate is trashed again. She gets her evening meal at 5 PM. and we keep her occupied and awake until after her nightly walk. I am sooo frustrated with the mess and doing an awful lot of laundry. What am I doing wrong or it just my wonderful little puppy's bladder and do I need to give her more time to adapt to her crating time?


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

If it makes you feel better, Chase is 12.5 weeks old and during the day his max crate time is 4hrs. Any more than that I think he would have an accident. 

At night, we take away his water 1 hr before bed and make sure he pees right before bedtime. Our dogs are free fed so can't help you out too much with feeding schedule, but limiting water before bed helps us. Chase sleeps from 10:30-6:30 at night without accident. Miles is 20 months, I think we started leaving water in his crate at about 18-20 weeks and stopped limiting his water at night about this time too.


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## lonestar (Jun 2, 2013)

Wow, if your 11 week old sleeps from 10PM to 5AM, I'm coming over to your house! Mine get up at least x2 in that same period.

Your expectations of Dharma should be based on her ability, not your needs. She's doing the best she can..which I think is frankly great! Get up more frequently to potty her, she needs to go even though she's not complaining...her thrashing her crate is a stress reaction to her full bladder.


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

You have a very valid point. She is young and is doing great. Getting steadily better from week to week. She now has the full extent of the crate and goes into it more willingly. She eats in her crate with the door open. We have figured out what things can go into her crate with her during the day and at night. It will get better as she gets older and knows what time she has to be crated for each day. I just have to persevere with the stinky crate trashing. Besides we are getting more sleep and she doesn't live in our bedroom either.


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

If u r giving her the whole crate that's likely the problem. She can pee on one side then move away from it.


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

A pup that young should be fed three times a day. Trying to feed her in two meals is really risking a stomach turn!

Every pup is different. My boy was sleeping from 10 pm til 6 am from 10 weeks. It sounds like right now she is in the crate for a bit longer than she can handle.


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## CatK (May 29, 2013)

Hi MCD - you're only a few weeks behind me and Morris and soon Dharma will just suddenly sleep through the night dry and not go back. I think at that age we were putting Morris to bed at 10.30, waking up to an alarm to let him out at 2.30 for a pee, then getting up at 6 with him. When I realised I was waking him up at 2.30, I started pushing the time later then just went for it and got up with fingers crossed at 6!

Morris calmed down about a month ago now (he's 16 weeks), like it suddenly clicked that when he went in his crate we would come back for him, and that night times were for sleeping, and that the crate meant a stuffed kong or new toy, and now he's fine in there. No crying or barking and dry every night. As soon as he was dry at night I gave him a big squishy blanket for nighttime sleeping so he sleeps better (therefore doesnt wake up and realise he needs a pee), and he is even more motivated not to pee on it when he wakes up, but instead gives us a little whimper to let us know he's awake and ready to come out!

He's still working on the day so he gets a towel rather than a big cuddly blanket, but we've just stocked up on towels for him and I'm working on a routine of: wet breakfast nice and early so it has time to pass through, then a dry lunch, then a wet dinner. I'll let you know how we get on. Main thing is they never get told off for messing their crate, as it's not their fault that they're in there too long.

Throw treats in there all the time for her to find etc etc.

Good luck x


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

It isn't so much the peeing in the crate as it is the poo


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## Kafka (Jul 24, 2013)

It seems like she might be crated too much for this young age.
At night it might help to set an alarm once or twice. Just get up, take her out for a pee (no play time) and put her back in the crate. Eventually you won't have to do this but at 11weeks she can't help it: tiny bladder.
During the day crated for 5 hours seems a bit too long for a young puppy. It will help to make sure there is not enough room in the crate for her to pee/poop and then lay on the other side (like others suggested). They are clean dogs and will really try not to soil their sleeping space. I would suggest asking a neighbor or friend to come by twice during the day to let her out of the crate. Eventually you will be able to have her be in her crate for five hours but be patient and give her more breaks now that she's so young.
Good luck!


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

Yes, I think getting her up at least once again at night may help. She does currently sleep right through. But I suspect it may be later in the early morning that she does this. During the day we may have to get someone to come and take her for a walk or even just out. The extra hour may just be too much. I had just recently given her the full run of her crate. She is better about going in it willingly to sleep and eat. At this point I would rather have a happy puppy in her crate. Not crating her is not an option in this house. In the meantime I think she will just get it over time and will have to re evaluate how things are being handled at the moment or just keep cleaning up the messes.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Move the crate into the master bedroom. Problem solved 

Sam slept through the night since 8 weeks old. Never a problem unless I messed with his diet and even then he learned to ask for potty. 
Always provided fresh water in the crate, always fed 3 times/day when he was that young. 

Tip: they don't soil any part of the house that is familiar to them. If you find it soiled in a room, clean up and play with them in that room. This will drastically reduce or totally eliminate any incidence. 
Same idea used can be applied to the crate as well. Make it fun.


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## Kafka (Jul 24, 2013)

> I think she will just get it over time


I don't think that she does it because she doesn't get it, I think such a young puppy just isn't able to keep it in for that long during the day.
I hope the problem will be resolved when taken out during the day.


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

I think moving her crate into the master bedroom at this point is taking a step backwards but thanks for that tidbit of advice. She has never had her crate in our room. We keep the radio on all day and don't put her in for the day until we have too and then it is with a Kong stuffed with frozen yogurt or pumpkin, her duck and an antler. We leave her with her crate pad and a towel. She does fine for a few hours in her crate by herself. Possibly just time.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

I knew it... this is the kind of dog that doesn't spend much time away from the owner throughout it's lifetime. It's programmed to let you know if something is wrong, LOL.

Not a Sheperd dog, sorry. " Vizsla will live on top your head" ;D


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

Now I'm confused. If you don't have her in your room how do you know if she needs to go out?


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

We have more than one animal in this house who would gladly share our bedroom with us. It becomes a bit overwhelming and unfair to all involved. And believe me Dharma has a set of lungs on her! She has her crate in the rec room below our bedroom so I can hear her still. Just putting her crate in our room might just set her back further. I don't know at this point. It is just a matter of shorter time spans I think.


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## CatK (May 29, 2013)

We have the crate downstairs because the other half doesn't want it in the bedroom, we got around the distance by setting the alarm to take him out and it seemed to work well.

That said I'm desperate to get him the bedroom, we went to the inlaws this weekend and had him in the bedroom and he was thrilled, settled down faster than ever and so well behaved all weekend. I think it was because he was with us the entire time. 

I'm hoping to break the bedroom rule one day... the other half is already soppier over the pup than I ever imagined, it's just a matter of time mwahahaha


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

MCD said:


> We have more than one animal in this house who would gladly share our bedroom with us. It becomes a bit overwhelming and unfair to all involved.


Not fair is being born 13 weeks ago, torn away from mother and siblings.... and locked inside a dark dungeon all alone at night.... We call that training :'( 
The very least we can do is understand they are very human oriented pack animals... they need their pack close by, right next to them. 
Still, they need training but at least the isolation issue will be solved. Only the lowest ranking pack members are so submissive, they will choose to eliminate in their own den, I read somewhere. 

I am not trying to be rude or insensitive, please do not misunderstand.


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## MilesMom (Jun 21, 2012)

I agree with datacan..... and again not trying to be combative. 

I am a huge clean freak and I broke down and let Miles in our room in his crate, which I never thought I would do. But I do believe it is best. Miles slept with one potty break from 9-10 weeks then through the full night no break, and Chase has slept through the night since his 3rd night home. I just think they feel better with someone there with them.


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

Well she went straight from 11:00 AM this morning to 4:00 PM without making a mess in her crate. She is hit and miss. She is fine in the office. That is where her crate has been from day one. I think it may just be that she can only go for so many hours. The only time she goes in her crate for any length of time is when we go to work, at night or if there is somewhere we have to go and can't take her with us. And yes she does totally rule our lives. This is perfectly fine. Our cats need some space and time away from the puppy too. (psychologically they haven't accepted her very well). Thanks for the help though. Everybody has their own thoughts and opinions but I asked and only I really know what goes on in our house she is my first Viszla and I have to learn too. A lot is just being patient, changing my expectations for her and trial and error.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Cats, we had a showcat, Killy, and in 2007 gave him away for three times what we paid for Sam the V... 
We kept Butterfly because he was a working cat, a true mouse hunter :-*. He spent three months in the basement by himself when we brought Sam home . 
Now, 7, he is good friends with Sam (at least, they don't bother each other).
We feed Butterfly Orijen for cats... 

So my thought is... do not worry about cats.


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

Sorry- Dijon and Schnoozer were here before Dharma. Dijon has a lot of meaning to me as she adopted me when my husband passed away and I needed her but didn't know it. Schnoozer is my husbands cat and is very special to him too. Everybody gets equal treatment around here. Dharma is the newbie and we are still working on pack order.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

:'(

The balance tends to tip either in favor of the dog or the cats but not both, equally. I speak from experience. 

Dharma soiling on the crate is her way of saying she needs you. 
What say letting hubby spend some time with Dharma in the guest room instead of stroking his pussycat at night?

I did this at the beginning, we were banned from entering the MBR... Later, I worked the crate on my side of the bed. Worked out brilliantly.


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## lonestar (Jun 2, 2013)

MCD said:


> Sorry- Dijon and Schnoozer were here before Dharma. Dijon has a lot of meaning to me as she adopted me when my husband passed away and I needed her but didn't know it. Schnoozer is my husbands cat and is very special to him too. Everybody gets equal treatment around here. Dharma is the newbie and we are still working on pack order.


I hear you.

I think it's always important to listen. What works in or is right in one family isnt necessarily right for another, regardless of how well it works out for us. True knowledge isnt so much the application of our own success, but rather being able to listen to someone else's situations and needs.

There's this time of adjustment, and you and Dharma are still there, exploring the limits of your relationship. This is a very emotional process for you, these arent just "pets", and they haven't served that function in the past. Dharma is still a largely unknown quantity (quality?), and she's up against some pretty intense emotional competition. You and she need some time to define her place in your family. She'll adjust to this and be fine, they have this knack of figuring out what we need and then giving it to us. And you need some space and some time.

Lots of treats, lots of love, lots of fun and play and exercise and the rest will fall into place in it's own time.


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

Yes it is adjustment. Unfortunately my husbands cat has gotten sick since Dharma arrived. He is temperamental that way...... have to take him to the vet on Monday because we don't know if he is really sick or just depressed. I fear that he is sick because of his litter box habits. He has also tried marking in Dharma's crate. He is 4 years old and neutered. He isn't really going pee but is eating and drinking. This coupled with a feisty puppy, another cat who is adapting to the puppy and work and trying to keep up with my husbands diabetic 81 year old father who lives alone- things tend to slide.... I just hope we can settle soon. Always give Dharma the bulk of our spare time. She falls asleep on the sofa with my husband when he comes home from work. She helps me do my laundry, spends time in the garden with me, goes for walks, sleeps under my feet when I am in the forum....and she goes to puppy training and is smart as a whip. I hope I am doing well with her.


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

I have 1 cat on the back of my chair and the puppy under my feet. The other cat is sleeping in the sun on the sofa upstairs. Go figure..... Sometimes it's nice and sometimes it's just crazy!


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Well, I'm rooting for you, MC. 
Killy would be sick for days if we only moved furniture around!


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@ lone 
Your definition of true knowledge is listening emphatically, or what some would call entertainment. Perhaps, there was no reason why you (re) introduced yourself as a dog breeder, first post? 

This is what I'm thinking...
"True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing." - Socrates

Nice


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## SteelCityDozer (Aug 25, 2011)

MCD - to address your OP, I (we) went through the same thing with Penny. She was VERY VERY VERY slow to crate and house train. But mostly crate. I posted about it I here awhile back. We would get home from work regularly to a mess of a crate with poo and pee. I would have to just take the crate outside, sometimes daily, with a hose and cleaner and do laundry. You wouldnt believe how high up the wall she could get some pee. Itdidn't matter how much space she had or whether she had towels or whether it was two hours or four hours or weekday or weekend or ... You get the point. She has always slept with us, and our male Dozer, but I think she was just getting really worked up in the crate when home without ppl. She even wire down her teeth suspectedly from chewing on wire crate. It will get better and I can relate but try to just understand that she may develop I this aspect as quickly as others. Our Penny just made it seven hours in the crate for the first time last week, at 16 months old. Good luck and please don't give up on her.


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## lonestar (Jun 2, 2013)

datacan said:


> Well, I'm rooting for you, MC.
> Killy would be sick for days if we only moved furniture around!
> 
> 
> ...


Julius, it's regrettable that you cannot appreciate how these comments (and continued interpersonal skirmishes on a web board with strangers) reveals how, in spite of your high opinion of yourself, how little you've actually learned from the time spent with your Vizslas. 

This is what I'm thinking...

"Information is not knowledge"-Einstein

Nice


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

;D 

" Information is not knowledge" - Einstein 

Only when information is converted into a form of understanding (knowledge) by relating it to one's experiences, environment and surrounding does it actually make sense. 

So your argument brings us right back to experience... Which after reading some of your posts, seriously doubt you have much! You have imagination, I give you that. 

even nicer, LOL thanks for arguing my point.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

LONE, I ask you again, please post pictures of your dogs, one that we can see it's not ripped off some other site. Otherwise, it's imagination that supports all your grand claims, LOL


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## lonestar (Jun 2, 2013)

Julius, it's even more regrettable that you cannot understand what you read. I won't patronize you by re posting it here, but rather I'll assume you'll seek out some assistance in appreciating the content of that message should you fail to absorb that on second glance.

I am not accountable to you here, nor is my credibility in question, nor are pictures a prerequisite for that demonstration. If you do not like that, your feelings fall under the category of "Not my problem".

Hopefully this clarification of the obvious ends our communication on this or any other issue.


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

Zero substances in fact and zero real pictures with anyone' s Vizsla 

no bully bs here

Your a fake goof ball many embraced and the mods protected it.

Post 10 to 22 pictures you as a "handler or hunter" or a garbage collector can from the great State of Texas

ozzy your Not in Texas your in hiding storing dead rabbits for cover ;D 

others shot 

and anyone thinks this is me and Data bully bs is a tool

Post anything your face and body and red dogs in them

and sorry mods and other memebers

my gal friends a IT director 

One of the Best

schools out your not getting a (green card or scamming any women) :-* age 13 to 99 

post anything with a date in a pic you a handler and hunter in Texas

better yet Go bake a Cupcake

there your real

No bully no bs

and no cry baby to the mods

Let your real pics produce your words

funny comics and tricks are for kids

and passive aggressive behaviors for weenies hiding behind a pc


LETS GET BACK TO THE TOPIC

THE BELOVED RED BIRD DOGS

THE BETTER THEN GREAT

VIZSLA they scam and hide nothing

Zero threats

treats lets eat'

Credibility ;D lmao

I just blew out my depends

Your Best Post ever Lonepacker 

this is better then the Flinestones and Fred found bed rock ;D


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## lonestar (Jun 2, 2013)

Rudy, I don't speak in riddles..actually, no one else does here, either, surely you recognize that? When you have something of value to say to me, feel free to use your big boy words. Otherwise, you're frankly just a jack ass....who cant even see it (the worst kind).

Geez...


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

Again just weak little words like all your post 

no substance no pics, no trail mix

schools out my boy

go get me a towel

Come out of the dark

Vitamin D' 3 is so healing 

no more words scams out

Pictures doing"

The facts are this

Data likes crates as most do on here

I only use them for travel

This is just a choice and difference but great respect for him

He is real he is giving and He is trying 

Know no more words please mercy :

You handling groups of reds real and current 

great

or go back to the nap your late ;D

and (Geeze) don't pull the victim card again :

Man up post all your works and wisdom in Pictures doing from Texas lol

Thank Lordy they brought back the twinkie 

200 years of shelf life and zero values


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Lone, I understood all too well what I read. 
It's you who missed the meaning and posts funny advice. 

It's clear to anyone who has had even a PetSmart trained dog, you make some things up. 
The goal of your posts is to connect not necessarily help the dog. 
.... except, you keep embedding insults in your posts. 

not Nice


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

Just thought I'd get involved, and throw this in the mix......

http://youtu.be/jlouiaSmgA8


Hobbsy 8)


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

hobbsy1010 said:


> Just thought I'd get involved, and throw this in the mix......
> 
> http://youtu.be/jlouiaSmgA8
> 
> ...


Just like this forum, these pair make me laugh.... a lot!!!!!!!

Hobbsy 8)


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## Rudy (Oct 12, 2012)

Laughing is a healer ;D

hating makes wrinkles and pre age related inflammation 

Truth you and your Wife know he a fake

smile miles Hobby the Icecream Van is never a sell out 

and because You ask I will try are best to get some live real raw video

with the Red mates and Grouse 

we care we share

Humor is a Healer

and we would love to be blessed with some Downunder Thunder from you hunting soon

truth 100 percent"

Your river video with your 2 dogs  was real and showed some values all could gain from"


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## einspänner (Sep 8, 2012)

hobbsy1010 said:


> Just like this forum, these pair make me laugh.... a lot!!!!!!!
> 
> Hobbsy 8)


I'm glad you're still able to laugh. I want to cry about my beloved friendly forum. It's been missing since sometime last month or so. Have you seen it?


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## hobbsy1010 (Jun 4, 2011)

einspänner said:


> hobbsy1010 said:
> 
> 
> > Just like this forum, these pair make me laugh.... a lot!!!!!!!
> ...


Don't get too disheartened einspanner, sometimes it (the forum) go's like this for a while!! :-\

It has a life of it's own sometimes and does get 'passive aggressive' with out any warning!!

Chin up, keep the faith and don't forget.........

Keep smiling & love ya 'PUP' 


http://hodj.smugmug.com/photos/i-6RLNzPf/0/X3/i-6RLNzPf-X3.jpg



Hobbsy 8)


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

Can you guys PLEASE get back to the issue at hand for my sake? I am glad to know that someone else has had such trouble with messing their crate. Thank you for that acknowledgement Steelcitydozer. No I have not given up on Dharma-She is beautiful and smart and just so wonderful an addition to our family. She has to go in her crate. Any other way is just not an option. I find it very draining. Yes I am going through exactly what you did. We are trying to make it better by getting up with her at night and setting an alarm clock but finding when she needs to go is the answer. We do feed her on a set schedule and our work days are pretty set. Only problem right now is when we both have physiotherapy at different times and it makes for a long day for her. I always take her for a long walk and play time before I leave in the morning. That is a given. I just wish she were as good as everyone else's puppies-I can't brag. I believe it will come as she gets older. I also know that we had her plastic crate divided off by some plywood and only just recently took it out which has helped her be more comfortable about going in it and quieting or eating whereas before she didn't settle and was too smart to put her back legs in. We have gained in some things but are so stuck in others. Thank you for the encouragement and understanding.
Marcia


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## MCD (May 4, 2013)

I think you guys overstepped your bounds by mentioning anybody who has a Petsmart trained dog...... No further comments your honour!!!!!!!! Hey not fair


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