# Nightmare Puppy - Help!



## babybear (Feb 2, 2018)

Hello

We have a 14 week old V girl, Bear. It’s the second Vizsla we’ve had. 

We received Bear from a breeder at 8 weeks old, so have had her with us 6 weeks. It’s been a very testing time. 

Bear was a lovely, sweet thing the first couple of days we had her - but quickly gained her confidence and has since then, been a feisty wee firecracker. 

We have her crate trained, she sleeps through the night and we are midway through a five week puppy obedience class. She’s more or less housetrained. 

The issue I have is that Bear is exceptionally testing and defiant 80% of the time, in many, many ways. Her biting is next level bad, you basically can’t be near her (unless she’s sleeping) otherwise she’s trying to nip you - and she has a VERY hard mouth, as also reported by a professional trainer we’ve had do a home visit. We’ve tried all the usual - yelping and stopping engaging with her, distraction with a toy, time out in her crate (she just starts again the moment she’s let out). The only thing that seems to work sort of is a gentle ‘lip curl’, but I don’t feel comfortable doing this constantly - as she’s constantly trying to bite. 

She also does not respect boundaries that have been taught to her and that she DOES understand - ie the sofa. She jumps on it and digs at the cushions the moment she isn’t getting attention. She also jumped up and peed on it today for no apparent reason - she’s housetrained so this is odd and seems like attention seeking behaviour. 

She also barks at you very demandingly whenever she feels she’s not getting attention - ie at puppy obedience class while the trainer is explaining something to everyone, Besr barks incessantly which s hugely distracting for the whole class.

She’s almost never gentle or affectionate and it makes it ver difficult to bond with her, which I’ve never experienced with a V before. She just wants to bite you or get food, pats or scratches don’t interest her.

I work from home so she’s certainly not isolated. She gets three walks a day (still awaiting final vaccination before we can do some serious dog park tiring out!). She gets several play sessions a week with other puppies and adult dogs, so I’d have hoped that would help with her bite inhibition? 

My last Vizsla was not like this. Certainly she chewed and tested us and had her quirks, but she was manageable, and affectionate with us - which goes a long way with being able to bond and forgive some of the other stuff.

Right now we are REALLY struggling with Bear. It’s a constant battle. I feel we’re very consistent, firm and methodical with our training and interaction with her, but every day is just hard work.

Help! Have a got a nightmare puppy or is this a normal phase and I just had a lucky run with my first Vizsla?! 

Any suggestions would be appreciated! 

Thanks.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2012)

I don't think you have a nightmare puppy.
You have a bold puppy, that tests her limits. Some pups really want to please, and others think the world is their oyster.

Have you tried pushing your hand further in her mouth, when she's biting? You never want to hurt them. It's just enough to make it uncomfortable.


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## NW17 (Oct 15, 2017)

Our pup is 15 weeks old and still bites a lot too, I’ve noticed he just seems to always want something in his mouth though and often our hands are the closest thing so I try to grab a toy before approaching him to offer it first- almost like a shield. However, there are times the bites are very hard and I’ve done what TexasRed suggested. If you push your hand/arm in more they don’t like it and it forces him to stop. Ours is also barking at us to get attention and in class, it’s frustrating but we have been told to ignore the barking and then praise when he becomes quiet. I hope this begins working soon. It’s hard to take him to the office when he’s doing this. It sounds like our pups are the same and just strong willed. ?


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

Don't use the crate as punishment. The best "Punishment" for a V is simply to turn your back and ignore them.


Dogs also do not "test". Mercifully, they are not people that way, so if you find that she is being naughty, it's most likely the result of her not fully understanding your expectation and the anticipated consequence. Double down on that, and re train so it's clear what the expectations are, use different words, and deliver them differently. If she jumps on the couch take her off, tell her "NO!", and then give her an alternate place to curl up.

Some V's are more intuitive and pick this stuff up easier, and yours might not, so you have to re calibrate your messages and your training techniques so she can understand and then comply.


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## riley455 (Aug 27, 2011)

babybear said:


> Hello
> 
> We have a 14 week old V girl, Bear. It’s the second Vizsla we’ve had.
> 
> ...


Hi,

I would continue with redirection and have plenty of toys to give her. Lots and lots of toys. Once she settles a bit I would start the OFF command training. I think I may have posted this to a similar situation (can’t remember).

You may take quite a beating with this training but please don’t lose hope and be patient.

Put a very tasty treat in your hand (hotdog or meatball) and close your hand by making a fist . Place your closed hand in front of Bear’s nose. She will try to nibble, paw and lick but don’t open your hand. As soon as she backs off from your hand, open your hand and give the treat and use a marker word (such as YES). Don’t name the command yet.

Repeat the exercise several times. I would name the command and use OFF once Bear exhibits the behavior you were training her for, backing off when presented with your hand. I suggest doing several shorter sessions (10 to 15 minutes) of training rather than straight and non stop longer sessions (an hour or more). Puppies at this age respond well when there’s plenty of puppy play time involved in between training sessions.

After a few days of training and getting consistent good response from Bear, you can now try the OFF command in Bear’s biting/nipping behavior episodes you described above. 

As soon as she mouths or nips your hand, close your hand and say the word OFF. Pay with treat as soon as she backs off. You can even offer one of her toys as soon as she backs off.

See how this goes and please update us. I’ll address setting boundaries a bit later.


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## babybear (Feb 2, 2018)

texasred said:


> I don't think you have a nightmare puppy.
> You have a bold puppy, that tests her limits. Some pups really want to please, and others think the world is their oyster.
> 
> Have you tried pushing your hand further in her mouth, when she's biting? You never want to hurt them. It's just enough to make it uncomfortable.


Yes, I tried both the lip curl and pushing my hand further into her mouth and found the lipcurl tended to be more effective so have stuck with that. She definitely stops when you do either... for about ten seconds!


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## babybear (Feb 2, 2018)

NW17 said:


> Our pup is 15 weeks old and still bites a lot too, I’ve noticed he just seems to always want something in his mouth though and often our hands are the closest thing so I try to grab a toy before approaching him to offer it first- almost like a shield. However, there are times the bites are very hard and I’ve done what TexasRed suggested. If you push your hand/arm in more they don’t like it and it forces him to stop. Ours is also barking at us to get attention and in class, it’s frustrating but we have been told to ignore the barking and then praise when he becomes quiet. I hope this begins working soon. It’s hard to take him to the office when he’s doing this. It sounds like our pups are the same and just strong willed. ?


Hey there! It definitely sounds like they are similar! I'm hoping it's some kind of right of passage to having an awesome dog. We also ignore the barking - but I find if I turn my back on her or walk away she will try to jump up on me or bite the backs of my legs!


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## babybear (Feb 2, 2018)

gingerling said:


> Don't use the crate as punishment. The best "Punishment" for a V is simply to turn your back and ignore them.
> 
> 
> Dogs also do not "test". Mercifully, they are not people that way, so if you find that she is being naughty, it's most likely the result of her not fully understanding your expectation and the anticipated consequence. Double down on that, and re train so it's clear what the expectations are, use different words, and deliver them differently. If she jumps on the couch take her off, tell her "NO!", and then give her an alternate place to curl up.
> ...


Hey there - thanks for the reply! We don't use the crate as punishment as such - I just find when she gets to a certain level of over excitement and her barking/biting and behaviour gets out of control, we walk her over to the crate - sprinkle some treats into it, along with a 'In your crate!' and she'll walk in voluntarily. Then the door gets closed and she gets ten minutes in there to cool off a bit. I find if she has free run of the house when she's in a 'mood' or over excited, it gets her into situations where she can misbehave, which we try to avoid. 

Her jumping on the couch isn't in relation to looking for a place to curl up. She will do it at 100mph and immediately start digging and biting at the pillows and leaping around barking, or as I said, yesterday she leapt up there and peed. When she gets in to this state of mind, she doesn't respond to training at all - even with a very high quality treat or a favourite chew, she seems to get completely wound up and not be able to engage - hence the gentle encouragement into the crate until she's come down a little bit.


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## babybear (Feb 2, 2018)

riley455 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I would continue with redirection and have plenty of toys to give her. Lots and lots of toys. Once she settles a bit I would start the OFF command training. I think I may have posted this to a similar situation (can’t remember).
> 
> ...


Hey there and thanks for this suggestion, it's not one I've heard before and it sounds like a great idea. I'll definitely give it a try. 

The interesting thing I find with Bear, that I've not noticed with any of the other dogs I've had before, is that she gets very frustrated very easily. Any kind of command that means withholding something from her, or even a prolonged command such as 'sit-down-sit' - she understands it, but will whine and wriggle and get very impatient about the whole thing. 

We seem to have no issue teaching her commands in a simple training situation, i.e. standing in the lounge and doing a ten minute training routine - she'll be great with a number of commands - including 'leave' or 'drop'... but then when we try and implement them in a 'real life situation' i.e. if she's got something in her mouth that she shouldn't, suddenly 'drop' seems to mean nothing to her. 

She's certainly a strong willed little girl!


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## riley455 (Aug 27, 2011)

babybear said:


> Hey there and thanks for this suggestion, it's not one I've heard before and it sounds like a great idea. I'll definitely give it a try.
> 
> The interesting thing I find with Bear, that I've not noticed with any of the other dogs I've had before, is that she gets very frustrated very easily. Any kind of command that means withholding something from her, or even a prolonged command such as 'sit-down-sit' - she understands it, but will whine and wriggle and get very impatient about the whole thing.
> 
> ...


That's great that she easily learns the required behavior and response. Now the challenge is practicing and implementing the learned behavior consistently and prolonged duration in several settings. Some breeds including the Vizslas learn commands easily, but we need to practice and repeat the exercise over and over. Then test and tweak the exercise to address new issues/challenges.

In the example you gave above on whining and wriggling, this is an opportunity to train and eliminate the unwanted behavior. The idea is to always ignore unwanted behavior and pay (instant and immediately) as soon as the dog exhibits the good behavior.

Let her whine and wriggle as soon as she makes eye contact with you (even for a fleeting moment) pay immediately and continuously in several and small pieces of treat. Use a marker word here and then release her. The goal here is to get her attention and eliminate whining and wriggling (and other unwanted behavior). Practice the exercise and then later on name this command such as "Here" or "Watch me".

In the other example you gave above, Bear not paying attention "leave or drop" commands, I would try other treats (more high value, such as chicken or liver) and see what she responds to well and then practice consistently over and over. 

And at 14 weeks I think there should be more practice and repetition on the positive behavior you want out of your puppy especially on leave or drop it. There's not enough time and opportunity for her to get these commands at this point. You'll need to practice with her at different settings and distractions.

But then again, I'm only responding based on your description and not seeing her behavior first hand so I may be completely off base on all my recommendations. Take whatever you can from what I say or completely ignore everything. Please update us when you can.


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## gingerling (Jun 20, 2015)

babybear said:


> Hey there - thanks for the reply! We don't use the crate as punishment as such - I just find when she gets to a certain level of over excitement and her barking/biting and behaviour gets out of control, we walk her over to the crate - sprinkle some treats into it, along with a 'In your crate!' and she'll walk in voluntarily. Then the door gets closed and she gets ten minutes in there to cool off a bit. I find if she has free run of the house when she's in a 'mood' or over excited, it gets her into situations where she can misbehave, which we try to avoid.
> 
> Her jumping on the couch isn't in relation to looking for a place to curl up. She will do it at 100mph and immediately start digging and biting at the pillows and leaping around barking, or as I said, yesterday she leapt up there and peed. When she gets in to this state of mind, she doesn't respond to training at all - even with a very high quality treat or a favourite chew, she seems to get completely wound up and not be able to engage - hence the gentle encouragement into the crate until she's come down a little bit.


Try to figure out the pattern and intervene before she escalates. Crate time as a part of a routine, especially if it short circuits the crazies is good, waiting for her to exceed her limits and throwing in a few cookies not so much.

Her wanting to be on the couch to play or curl up..the response is the same...take her off, say "Down!", and give her an alternate place to do that. If you are on the couch yourself, that's going to be too tempting for her, you might need to wait until she's tired before sitting there.

You migth be expecting too much from her, she might need more space restrictions and more supervision, along with reinforcing the words associated with commands.


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## TuckerV (Jan 1, 2018)

*Not Alone!*

We too have a 3 month old, VERY STRONG-WILLED V puppy.... and he is right smack in the middle of a biting-phase. This is our second V as well, and they are dang-near dead opposites. We rescued the first one when she was just over a year old. She was very submissive. All I had to do was raise my voice to get her to stop doing something. Not so with Mr. Tucker! He is 100% Alpha-male... and will challenge everyone in the house all day, every day. It’s a marathon of perseverance most days.

Other members on here can probably offer much better guidance and advice than I can; especially since this is our first V puppy, and we are trying to figure it out just like you. I just keep reminding my wife to take it one day at a time, and that it’s a process... 1.5 years from now, he will be a specimen of a dog, and one helluva family member... but it’s not going to happen over night.

Keep the faith, remain consistent, and take heart that you guys aren’t alone in this one!


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## babybear (Feb 2, 2018)

TuckerV said:


> We too have a 3 month old, VERY STRONG-WILLED V puppy.... and he is right smack in the middle of a biting-phase. This is our second V as well, and they are dang-near dead opposites. We rescued the first one when she was just over a year old. She was very submissive. All I had to do was raise my voice to get her to stop doing something. Not so with Mr. Tucker! He is 100% Alpha-male... and will challenge everyone in the house all day, every day. It’s a marathon of perseverance most days.
> 
> Other members on here can probably offer much better guidance and advice than I can; especially since this is our first V puppy, and we are trying to figure it out just like you. I just keep reminding my wife to take it one day at a time, and that it’s a process... 1.5 years from now, he will be a specimen of a dog, and one helluva family member... but it’s not going to happen over night.
> 
> Keep the faith, remain consistent, and take heart that you guys aren’t alone in this one!


Hey there and PHEW - sounds as though you guys are in the exact same boat. Our last V was also very submissive - Also very sweet natured, determined to please and a very gentle girl! Whereas the new lady in the house, Bear, is Ms Dominant. It takes some adjusting right? Or more aptly, is a complete battle.

I keep trying to convince myself that perhaps it’s all some kind of rite of passage to having a fantastic older dog... if we can just get through this you get phase we’ll somehow end up with a gentle, well mannered girl! It’s all character building. 

On the upside - Bear just graduated puppy obedience school as top of her class with an ‘A’ grade. I couldn’t believe it to be honest - and of course we were very proud. 

Now, if only she’d stop peeing on the sofa that she isn’t even allowed on.....


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## 2Gingers (Jan 25, 2018)

I'm in the very same situation with my male V, Jax. Jax is not quite 3 months old yet, but nothing seems to phase him when he begins biting. I have seen a decrease in the amount of time he will spend gnawing on my hand, arm, leg, or foot (or hair if he can grab it), but not one piece of advice has really made a difference. Ignoring him and standing still is just not an option nor is it realistic! Jax would continue bite more and more aggressively and draw blood if I did absolutely nothing. Plus, those shark teeth hurt! Yelping or making any kind of noise when he bites gave him pause the first 2-3 times, but it only incites him now. Pushing my hand towards the back of his mouth (also suggested by my breeder) and pulling his lip over his teeth do not phase him either. He only returns to bite harder, often adding a growl. Redirecting his attention is a bit of a joke. Like you said previously, it works for a few seconds. Clearly, my hands and feet are his favorite toys, so why would he want to give them up for something of less value? Has anyone ever addressed that theory?

Currently, my process is to say "No bite!" as I shuffle to the nearest room and shut myself in for 10-15 seconds. I sometimes put him in the room and say, "Time out" (also 10 seconds). I usually have to do that 3-4 times in a row before he will not immediately begin biting again. I say "shuffling" because when I move into another room, I'm dragging him with me as he tears _yet another_ couple of holes in my pants or socks (since I cannot forcefully remove him nor distract him). I can't afford a new wardrobe every other week! I have found, however, that _sometimes_ he will let go of my pants/foot when he sees me headed towards "time out." Other times, I have to struggle with him to remove my clothing from his mouth, which I'm sure someone will have something to say about that, but again, my clothes are literally being torn! 

I have also tried wearing rain boots indoors since he cannot easily tear holes in them or grab my pant hem, and I cannot feel his bites in them, just the pressure. The only problem with this option is they make my feet sweat. Rain boots get hot! Plus, I look ridiculous on beautiful, sunny days. Has anyone else tried this one? I'm thinking about suggesting it to my mother, who is 68 and having a harder time dealing with Jax's bites when we visit.

Like you and everyone else, I will keep plugging along. I know it's early yet, but seeing the other well-behaved dogs at the obedience class a few days ago makes it harder to stay the course. Jax just started training, so I am hoping the socialization will help. However, only one other dog interacted with him at all. An older chocolate Lab puppy played with him constantly (I'll have to post a pic next time). The others were all much smaller and too timid to approach, and their owners clearly did not want Jax's "crazy" rubbing off on their precious pet. Ha! Jax was the most vocal of the group as well. He's not much of a barker until he has the spotlight, apparently. Oh well, we're still shooting for an "A" too!


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## QueenTilly (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi there!




babybear said:


> Hello
> 
> We have a 14 week old V girl, Bear. It’s the second Vizsla we’ve had.
> 
> ...


Hi there! I was wondering if you have any updates on the progress of your puppy??
Ours fits your description quite perfectly and my parents really are losing their patience :/ she just does not seem to respond to anything and will jump up and nip and bite us - it’s getting to the point where it’s hard to cross the room without her going at you. I would love to hear when you felt like you saw improvement as we really need some hope!
Kind regards
Carlotta


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## Sunshinesol (Jul 3, 2020)

This might be hard to hear, but in my opinion the last thing you want to do is go to the dog park. Like ever. Especially with a pushy pup like this. She’s going to pick up some bad habits and some dogs don’t like to be ran up to and engaged in rough play right off the bat. You might be falling into that cycle with her when she plays with you. Don’t turn your back as you are yielding to the pup and rewarding the biting. I recommend putting a leash indoors, so you can better control her when she’s out of her crate. You can also crate her for longer periods during the day, and force her to take more naps as being overtired and without like 18 hours of sleep she’s going to be a little devil; mouthy, jumpy, zoomy..

Take her out to walk, potty, train, socialize, whatever you’re doing together. If you haven’t been taking her places already go expose her to the public, wherever you go, and to places like Home Depot or whatever hardware store you have locally. If you can’t supervise her 100% then pup is in the crate. This is all to prevent bad habits from forming, and make sure she gets lots of sleep.

On walks make sure she’s politely at your side unless given the released/break/free dog command. If she’s forging ahead turn into her or away 180 degrees. Practice inside, driveway, then go on the walk. Practice horizontal leash pressure, so hold it parallel to the ground and reward when she turns into the leash pressure. Best collar for this is a wide flat leather collar. 

Try not have toys out, use them for play and training with you, and teach a strong out command. This and leave it are good commands to prioritize. Plenty of time for that other stuff. Obedience is a small part of dog training, though it’s a great way to connect and play. The most important part is how you live together: what rules and structure you are ENFORCING. That is to say there meaningful consequences to breaking. I’m not a super big fan of timeouts because they are longer forms of punishment, something I’m not sure the dog fully connects to an action. Puppy moms give fast, well timed, and hard enough to get a point across. In my case my most common corrections are verbal, spacial corrections, and leash corrections. My marker for a correction is “uh uh”, and functions similar to the “yes” for rewards. That will mark the moment in time they are being corrected for. It’s important not to lose your cool during all of this, as we can’t let our emotions get the best of us when training dogs. After marking I will calmly walk over or reach down, sometimes with a smile on my face but no eye contact, pick up the leash, and give a collar pop. If they are biting me or my pant leg I’ll pop pretty hard. They can either stop or briefly redirect to the leash but they’ll stop doing that too. A good out command will prevent this. If they are doing something you don’t like I’ll mark with an “uh uh” and give a spacial correction- that is close the space between you two with energy and a frown. I don’t ever make contact with them in this case, unless they don’t stop, in which case I’ll go over there and move the dog from that thing he’s chewing on or whatever, claiming that space. Again these habits can be stopped or prevented with more crate time and having a leash indoors. 

She’s about the age where she understands cause and effect pretty well. So for my pups 3-4 months is when I transition to correcting unwanted behaviors vs redirecting to a toy.

A big thing often overlooked is doorway thresholds and your own personal space. I don’t let my dogs just come up to me for pets or interaction. I do pet and love on them A LOT but it’s on my terms, when I call them over. This is kinda to prevent said rowdyness and biting because I’m beginning the interaction on my terms. If the pup is gonna be rude and jumpy I’ll send it away, but I won’t move away myself, I don’t want the pushy behavior to lead to me yielding to it. When we go in and out of the house as puppies I make them wait at the open door until they give me calm eye contact, so no busting in and out of doorways as soon as they are open hehe.

Sorry if you know a lot of what I talked about already, and sorry if it’s all over the place and confusing, I just started typing and I rambled a lot I’m sure.. lol but best of luck! Puppies are such treasures but man have I lost some good pants and shoe laces to them


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