# Wearing Gloves



## tracker (Jun 27, 2011)

Looking for some advice!!!

It is getting cold here, and for the last couple of walks I have been wearing winter gloves. 

Every time I get them out of the cupboard, he goes nuts and tries nipping at them, and at my hands when i put the gloves on. He usually forgets about it for a while, but then during our walk out of nowhere he starts jumping and trying to nip at my gloves. It escalated to the point where had to pin him and get him to calm him down. 

This worked, but later in the walk he did it again. So i pinned him again to calm him down, it worked again and we arrived home and now he is passed out. 

I have worn the gloves around the house, while feeding, and giving treats to try and have him associate the gloves with good experiences. Hopefully this works!!!!

I am thinking he may have had a bad experience with his previosu owners relating to gloves, or he has never seen anyone wearing gloves before. 

Any advice or thoughts are greatly appreciated. 

Thanks


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Tracker, I am sure you know what you are doing, so please don't be upset with my comments, however, I am assuming you are talking about a Vizsla yeah? If so, could I encourage you to investigate and try some alternative methods? 

V's are very soft dogs emotionally and harsh or physical correction isn't the best method to alter behaviour. A whimsical voice and a firm no is all it should take. I have never had to pin any of my V's or my GSP. Nor any of my cocker spaniels. Having said that, I use that method on dogs like Australian Blue Heelers. They need it as they lack emotional intelligence. But, a V is a very smart dog. You pinning it shows it you have lost control. A good pack leader always remains calm. 

Sorry if I offend you and not suggesting you're wrong, just would be careful with that type of correction on a Vizsla.


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## tracker (Jun 27, 2011)

Hi Ozkar,

Definately not offended or upset, more appreciative than anything. Yes I am talking about a Vizsla, he is 11 months old. I just got him about 2 months ago from a family who gave him up when they had a new child as the child developped allergies (whether this is true or not I am not sure). 

I definately don't want to pin Lui to the ground, but all other commands that work 90 percent of the time dont work when he gets to this stage, and the nipping was getting harder and harder almost into a bite, and he wouldn't stop. I was a couple of kilometers away from home, and there I could have walked him back to the house like that. I tried runnign beside him, giving him his regular commands "no", "leave it", "off", to no avail. Funny thing is, once he stops,he is back to his normal self continues on with the walk, and totally chills out at home. 

If my commands, and a firm voice are not working, and this behaviour is continuing, do you suggest another method to get him to stop?

I really want to do what is best for the dog, and realize they are very intelligent, this is why I chose this breed. 

Any advice or criticism negative or positive is welcomed from all, this is definately a learning experience.

Thanks


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

I feel that people buying into the "soft" dog is why we have thread after thread of aggressive V's. 
They are sensitive for sure, but that doesn't make them well behaved. They need structure for that.

I pin my girl when she needs it. It isn't something I do very often at all, but if she gets too hyper and does not listen, pinning her is like a reset button. 

It is a direct form of punishment that does not take a heavy hand or any yelling or even talking. When you do it properly, there is no fight, and it is a very clear message that what they were doing is not ok. You are telling the brain to submit, not the body.

In this situation, I would avoid using treats associated with the gloves. You may be making it more of a game to your dog. You can use them as a reward for a good "leave-it" but not to make the gloves less threatening.


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## tracker (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks Mischa,

I am ok with some rough housing, and jumping and playing when i want it, but when the nipping escalates to almost biting that I can feel through the gloves, that is not acceptable to me. 

Got it with the treats, I will try this as well.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Mischa, I am not suggesting for a minute that the dog doesn't need boundaries. Just that there are better more positive ways to alter that behaviour. There is a reason the dog does it. Find the cause and the solution will be simple. 

However, you blaming that belief on aggressive Vizslas is a factless statement. Unless you can back it up with some hard evidence??? In Australia have a very strong belief in a slightly softer approach in training a Vizsla. We have no aggression problems down here as a result. Being a small population and the Vizsla being a dog not commonly owned here in Oz, the Vizsla community is very small and very in touch with each other. I have never seen an aggressive Vizsla at any gathering or show and have never heard anyone post on our forum with aggression issues with any of there V's. 

There is a huge difference between a V and most other breeds. A soft and friendly tone is far more beneficial to good behaviour in the long run. Being harsh and physical with a Vizsla is a great way to start aggression, not avoid it. 

Tracker, try stopping the walk. Take the dog on a short lead. Change direction. Make him/her sit. Distract it with a toy you have brought with you. Ring a bell, blow a whistle. Just don't get physical. It shows you have lost your cool. 

If the dog won't sit, there is nothing wrong with gently plonking it's bum down with a soft flat hand on it's hindquarters and a calm and reassuring voice. But I am not of the opinion that pinning it is the best solution.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Normal, the dog is playing with you. Nothing to worry about. Do not get excited and stop moving your hands so fast. Slow, even movements don't trigger the drive instinct. 
If you carry treats - stop it for a while.

Options:
A Prong collar takes care of all behavior issues (except when ppl don't want to take advice).


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## born36 (Jun 28, 2011)

My pup is not aggressive at all but if he is playing too rough. I can't pin him as this escalates his excitement. He believes it is all part of the game therefore with gloves on or no gloves on if a dog is enjoying play but gets too excited the best thing you can do is leave them alone. It is the best message I can send to my pup. As soon as he gets too excited I stop playing, I don't say anything I walk out of the room and pretend he doesn't exsist.


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## datacan (May 15, 2011)

Good approach, born36. Another way is to move in toward the dog as it jumps on you. This act alone unbalances it and next time will try and jump lower and lower.
The glove biting this is the same as biting skin. NOT ALLOWED. I act as the glove is part of my skin. 

But the jumping thing is mostly attributed to the excitement created by moving hands. Being aware and keeping the hands close to the body, not making any sudden moves, is the key. We are mostly not aware of how fast our hands move around. We even communicate with our hands. To a dog hands are a prime target.

Interesting side effect, because I used leather work gloves (cheap, pig skin gloves) to handle Sam when he was really small, he never bites/chews on anything leather. No damage to leather couch or the leather seats in the car 8) 
Never planed it like this, we just wanted to have some protection against those razor sharp puppy teeth.


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

Ozkar said:


> I have never seen an aggressive Vizsla at any gathering or show and have never heard anyone post on our forum with aggression issues with any of there V's.


You may not have seen it with your own eyes, but come on, there are countless threads on this forum about people asking for help with aggression. 

I agree 100% that a softer approach is needed with a V. My point was that pinning a dog does not have to be an aggressive maneuver. 
I say 2 words "Mischa, Down". 
Once she lays down, I crouch next to her and roll her on her side, holding 1 finger on her neck. It isn't a fight as this is something we did when she was a pup, for no other reason than to tell her that we could. She doesn't fight it because she knows that it simply means that she has to stop.

I do not have all of the answers. I honestly believe that there is plenty for me to learn. 
All I know is that when my dog gets nuts, yelling does nothing, and pinning her on her side gives me the results I want. A calm dog. 
It doesn't make her fear me, and it doesn't make her want to one-up me. It makes her settle down and realize that when her owners say stop, we mean it. That is discipline, not abusive or even harsh treatment in my opinion.


I have read many of your posts, and it sounds to me like you have a very insightful view and a fair bit more skill than most. You knowing when to be soft with your dog is not the same thing as someone who is soft all the time by letting them get away with little growls that can turn into bites later. 


On a side note, being from Oz, have you seen Red Dog? We thought it was great, and the only change I'd have made was making the star character a Vizsla!


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## Aimless1 (Sep 25, 2011)

I'm sure Ozkar will chip in but I read his post as it pertains to Austrailia and in Austrailian Vizsla forums. Not elsewhere.

As agressive as we Americans are, is it any wonder we have agression problems with our dogs?


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

Aimless1 said:


> I'm sure Ozkar will chip in but I read his post as it pertains to Austrailia and in Austrailian Vizsla forums. Not elsewhere.
> 
> As agressive as we Americans are, is it any wonder we have agression problems with our dogs?


Yeah, good point about the Australian Vizsla forum. I didn't read it that way at first. 
I see his point was that they use softer methods and have no aggression problems.
I'm positive that this is true. I have family in Oz, and for the most part, they seem to be more in tune with animals than the average North American. 

For what it's worth, we're Canadian... very aggressive Canadians!  And if Ozkar is from Melbourne, we're cool, but if hes from Sydney, there will be trouble!!!


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Mischa go back and read a lot of the threads on aggression, you might find the results to each thread interesting. A lot end up not being aggression, but normal puppy play, then a lot are behavioural issues caused by mistreatment, poor home lifestyle or a lack of human understanding. Not the dog's fault for the most part. 

Mischa, information in this world has never been more accessible. Do you really believe that if there were cases of Vizsla Aggression in the Oz Vizsla community that we wouldn't know about it??? I know when a bitch get's pregnant, when they whelp, how many, what they weighed, how many boys, how many girls, which shows they are entered into, what they win, who visited who,what they had for breakfast, that Leroy climbed a tree today. I gotta say, I would find it incredulous that we would not have heard of a case if there was one out there, it's a small well connected community who strives to improve and protect the breed here in oz. 

As for your reply, your method is nothing close to "pinning" a dog. You have already established control of your dog and a gentle finger is all that is required sometimes for you to complete the request. Pinning is forcing an obviously excited puppy to the ground. that is harsh treatment to a Vizsla. I would not recommend it. Not if you want a healthy mental state from your dog. 

Like you Mischa, I also place my finger on Astro's little back sometimes to get him to complete a sit. I have only had him for a couple of months but this slow reaction to commands is slowly reducing. I havn't had to put my finger on his back for weeks. (I really hadn't thought about that till just then, little Astro is progressing isn't he. Clever boy)

I have no arguments with discipline. My dogs will be corrected when they go outside the boundaries that are known. It will be immediate and they will comply, or they know that there are consequences, because I control the resources. They are not perfect and will break the rules. I don't mind, I like a dog with it's own mind and not a robot. But, when I am serious, they know and never fail to accept a command. 

Trust with a dog, both ways, you to them and them to you is crucial. RBD speaks regularly about this. They must trust you 100%. If occasionally you lose your cool and get aggressive with them, they will sometimes develop less than that 100% trust. To me, pinning that pup in that situation is just wrong. Sorry if I offend anyone by saying that. But, I am passionate about my V's and passionate about the way they are treated. Positivity is a far better motivator than correction. Lead them so they don't get into the situations where they can get into trouble. 

I havn't seen Red Dog Mischa. I will wait till it is on the tv. Not that I wouldn't enjoy it, I know I will. But I am not a real movie goer. I have trained about 8 or 9 Red Dogs though. They really are great sheep and cattle dogs. Very, very, very smart little fellas those Kelpies. Cunning little buggers though. Got to watch them. They work things out pretty quickly. My last one was a cracker. He used to ride on the tank of the Ag bike on the farm, then when we sold the farm and moved into the city, he used to ride through city traffic on the tank of my Ducati 1000 Mille Desmo. (Circa 1984) Back then, there were no laws in Oz to preclude you from doing this. Nowdays, it's illegal to have an animal on the tank. They have to be located in a secure box on the back. Pity really, I think they are safer on the tank. Flash had a sheepskin which I attached to the thank with straps. So he had grip and something soft to lay on if he wanted a sleep on a long ride.

It used to be funny to see the faces of people in there tin tops as you filtered down the lines of peak hour traffic on the bike, with Flash giving the occasional bark at anyone who took too much interest in his dad's bike. 

Guys...it's OK....i'm from Melbourne!


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

See, I knew you were alright! 8)

Just for the record, I thought you were talking about this forum, not an Australian forum.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

All cool this end Mishca. No venom or sting in anything I've written or read in here. Us Aussies tend to be very direct communicators and as such can be often misconstrued as arrogant and dictatorial. It's not meant to come out that way from this end. We just say it how it is. Not meant to be offensive or rude. So always when you read my posts, remember that most of what is said, is said with a partial part of my tongue, firmly embedded in my cheek!!! 

We also tend to like to stir the pot and "take the piss". Which is Aussie for making jokes about or on you. Pulling a leg or having a lend of someone are also sayings over here that mean similar. Every most I make, will have one or two very dry Aussie pisstakes in there somewhere. 

Anyways, gotta go. I'm working at the airport today with my Vizslas, clearing the kangaroos off the runway so the planes can land.


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## Mischa (Feb 17, 2010)

Ozkar said:


> Anyways, gotta go. I'm working at the airport today with my Vizslas, clearing the kangaroos off the runway so the planes can land.


We just got in from clearing the roads of polar bears so the Eskimos can ride through with their huskeys. ;D


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## tracker (Jun 27, 2011)

LOL

Thanks everyone for all the different viewpoints.


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## Ozkar (Jul 4, 2011)

Good to see you using your Vizsla well Mischa.  I suppose you're partially responsible for the David Attenborough doco which recently screened in series on the tv here in oz. Frozen Planet. Fair bit of footage of those bears and the Eskimos!


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